/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

[Anonymous No.]

Any philosopher vtubers yet?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4056772
Ace Fortune

[Anonymous No.]

>>4056772
There’s that rrat about Korone studying philosophy at Tokyo University.

[Anonymous No.]

Bumping this, I'm interested. And if any /here/chuubas see this, tell me your favorite philosopher so I can judge you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4057350
>Korone will never lock you in a cave and force you to watch shadows on a wall until you believe those shadows are reality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4063807
I been literally asking this question via marshmallows to almost every chuuba for the last six months.
Ironically the only proper answers to it so far were given by Terumi and Caleb I believe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4056772
i have an autistic idea to be the first latin speaking roman v-tuber.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4056772
I don't think anyone past the point of
>lmao Diogenes is so funny xD
in philosophy would be into vtubers hard enough to become one himself, even less if we're talking about women.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4056772
Literally Terumi

[Anonymous No.]

>>4064182
Your mission is good. I don't have a marshmellow so I'll just say my favorites (excluding theology and religion) are, in no particular order:
Jung
Wittgenstein
Kant
Aristotle
I hope to grow that list as I read more.

>>4064882
I'm asking here for a reason, I tried fishing on twitter for people's favorite philosophers and saw so many "diogenes shits on the street and plucks chickens so cool haha". Righteous fury. I did find magic doog man through that, so it's not like there aren't gems amongst the pile.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4066758
>>4064268
I'd watch, I can probably piece it together from languages I know as long as you are mute and use typing, translating as I hear is a little too much for me

[Anonymous No.]

"Lemonade is soup" - Gawr Gura, 2021

[Anonymous No.]

"Lemonade is soup" - Gawr Gura, 2021

[Anonymous No.]

>>4063807
I’m a nobody and not a chuuba so this prly means nothing but I like Schopenhauer and Stirner

[Anonymous No.]

>>4066758
>no hegel
ngmi

[Anonymous No.]

>>4066758
>Jung
I like him but he is not a philosopher in the same way as the others are, by putting him together with them I suspect you have no fucking clue what philosophy is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4068103
Want to read him when I feel ready and read enough to do so, I've heard his work is quite dense
>>4068765
I do not see how Jung's theory of archetypes and the collective unconscious, though applied by him psychologically, is not an expansion upon a metaphysical tradition that begins with the world of forms. That is not even mentioning his study of alchemy traditions in the development of his theories, which is natural philosophy. In general though, the motion to separate psychology from philosophy is arbitrary and limiting, especially for a field that brands itself the synthesis of all disciplines to uncover the fundamental unifying nature of reality and has involved people of all scientific disciplines from its earliest days.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4068103
>hegel
ok retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>4066758
i used to like philosophy, and i still do, but taoism has been my basis for life. this isn't to say you shouldn't read philosophy, but the dao offers an answer unlike almost anything else. the more you construct the less you know. i think philosophy is mostly useful for understanding how one could see the dao... you can find the dao anywhere you look, so i find such exercises as philosophy useful in understanding it more. somewhat like looking at other languages to understand your own so that you may understand the artificial nature of your own language and understand yourself in a new light divorced from concepts you previously accepted as the only way to view the world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4079079
you gotta stop reading chinese cultivation novels my man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4071322
not dense but extremely german, quite autistic

[Anonymous No.]

>>4079187
i read only tao te ching. it was an instrument to awakening my own views. answering unanswerable questions is fun and worthwhile... and i would say it can't bring you to the dao, but that wouldn't be very dao.

i just center around the dao, which is admittedly nothing. i have no need to center myself more by reading chinese texts. i work only on the house now, not the foundation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4056772
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsnlUn25OTM

[Anonymous No.]

>>4079590
They say Stirner's work was influenced by the Dao, which seems plausible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4066758
>kant
>wittgenstein
you must actually go to negative parties

[Anonymous No.]

>>4079590
alright fuck it. I have read enough western philosophy stuff. And read a decent amount of chink cultivation drivel. Guess it is time to dive into this. Recommend me some good Dao shit. Rec me 2 books if you can. One beginner one, one in depth one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4064882
>>4066758

[Anonymous No.]

>>4079079
>somewhat like looking at other languages to understand your own so that you may understand the artificial nature of your own language and understand yourself in a new light divorced from concepts you previously accepted as the only way to view the world
I actually agree with you quite a bit, I don't want to use philosophy as a tool to make sense of the world but rather liberate myself from materialistic delusions of separation. Hence why I like Wittgenstein and Jung, Kant is just good for transcendentalism and arguments against pure reason aka rationalization to self. The eastern canon is probably far better than the western canon for this, but I arrived at the right place so who cares. I will take a look at Daoism, but having had conversations with others of faith, I have already felt the universe guiding my open mind. That actually happened once to me on stream. I'll post the video if it ever finishes processing.

>>4079974
Don't talk about Wittgenstein with dates was the first advice given by my philosophy teacher during that unit, I'm going to help him not be single anymore. Surprisingly, I'm the laid-back politically-disinterested one in my prep school program of oversocialized nuerotics that has helped calm people down by hosting /tg/ shit and foosball.

>>4080595
Bravo! "Behold, a man!"

[Anonymous No.]

>>4056772
sorry, man.
philosophers are too busy being junkies to do something meaningful in this era.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4081031
don't be so hard on them, anon. we're at a point in philosophy where the options are constantly stare down the barrel of an existence where you're basically trying to do the impossible and avoid being captured by capitalism, or being a fucking analytic

as soon as you read a certain amount, some kind of escapism is all you can do until you can find a more permanent way of keeping yourself safe from the real

[Anonymous No.]

>>4081119
>>4081031
I can really sympathize with the so called 'gifted kids' who realize on some level how much we have separated ourselves from nature with artificial BS but also have been told that they must produce something of value for larger humanity with their gifts in life, which amounts to a mix of grudgingly participating with a society that makes them quite unhappy, running through escapism or an heroing when followed. Best advice for that I can offer is ditch larger society, fuck off to nowhere and become a mountain hermit to work on yourself and a small community that also helps you in a non-poisonous environment. Be like Godot, he's more insightful than most smart pricks.

[Anonymous No.]

I'd like to know about any VTubers that have a higher education in some field and share their knowledge in an accessible and entertaining way. I only know a political scientist on YT (phD) who streams with his profile pic in the corner like a PNGTuber. A chemist who does experiments from their backyard, or an economist that can explain the states of current markets and their causes, would be awesome. But a philosopher would be the kind of VTuber I want most.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4080166
read tao te ching. it is short.
http://thetaoteching.com/
the essence is that the dao is an unspeakable concept. we all know it but at the same time the second we try to see that knowledge it is gone. i hate to use the tired trope but it is somewhat like quantum mechanics where a wave function collapses; in trying to see this knowledge it changes, or merely isn't there.
it is much like ourselves. it even is ourselves. i know and exist, but when i think upon what i am, or where i am -- as in what specific point am i? the brain? well where in the brain? the left side? the right side? what is this consciousness talking to you... i know i am not where you are, or atleast i think not, as an example, and i believe i have myself squared down to about a cubic foot... but wherein that cubic foot can i be said to be seeing this text...
despite the insanity of this i type. i know i exist even though upon peering backwards i see nothing. so is the dao. i know it without thinking, but upon thinking i lose it... though the dao is there too, much like how even when i look backwards my self still exists. upon contemplation of my own consciousness i do not disappear, despite my apparent lack of sense dominating.

in this way daoism says nothing and everything. that has been a constant critique, that is sophism, but it does not ask you to be anything but yourself. daoism is said to be, according to it's author, a concept far before him and one far after him. being told of it is merely an act within the dao which makes it neither more real or less real. one can live a full life without ever hearing the word "dao" but it is nice to hear words in life.

whatever happens is the dao. what makes the dao special is it's ordinariness -- all alternate history could never be and will never be. there is only one life and it is this; that is the essense of the dao. to be in awe. no matter what happens next you lived and nobody can take that from you or change that your soul, or whatever you call it, acted it's part. take comfort in knowing that the dao exists and you cannot be erased... whatever happens you are real and of the dao, an ever continuing absurdity defying all comprehension.

that may also be said to be daoism, at least to me, the nature of irrational reality. we may pull back as many layers as we want of life, but despite the nihlism behind every answer we find we continue on. for some it may feel as though the entire universe, and then some, is screaming at you to kill yourself and that you do not exist. yet we smile back, against all sense, and continue in a line almost everybody intrinsically understands as doomed. irrationality ironically will defeat rationality despite knowing it can't.
in my darkest moments i have to remind myself of the dao by pulling back all layers until i finally reach the question my inner cynic can never answer, why i am here. i may find life meaningless or find rationality suited to answer everything -- but that question pulls me back to reality.

>A monk told Joshu, "I have just entered the monastery. Please teach me."
>Joshu asked, "Have you eaten your rice porridge?
>The monk replied, "I have eaten."
>Joshu said, "Then you had better wash your bowl."
>At that moment the monk was enlightened.

or, in other words, it can also be summed up by this statement refuting the idea that anything can provide answers to that most basic question with words or physical form:
>if you meet the buddha on the road kill him

essentially enjoy life. enjoyment may seem to have no meaning but that in itself is meaning, doing something despite all logic screaming at you not to -- much like that consciousness you are now which would make the rationalist's life a lot easier if it did not exist. enjoy crying and all else, you'll find that even death is perfect because it cannot be taken from you. everything you do is yours without any buts or ifs or anything else limiting it.

[Anonymous No.]

Nearly all vtubers subscribe to Hedonism in the vein of Bentham/Theodorus as well as Epicurus

[Anonymous No.]

>>4083104
i have always found it interesting how much watame talks about eating delicious food and other consumptions as an ultimate desirable outcome of one's relaxation.
then again isn't that normal for most people? even as insane as i am i can't deny the pleasure of a meal, even if it makes little sense to value it. the less i think my thoughts and questions as indicative of being correct the better off i am.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4083302
That's not what hedonism means

[Anonymous No.]

>>4083302
Pursuing pleasure every so often doesn't make you hedonistic necessarily.

I'm moreso referring to the fact that vtubers capitalize on and prey on lonely virgins/friendless losers by adopting a persona providing a GFE and or the kind of interaction which ends up creating a parasocial relationship on the viewers side.
Not only are they preying on these people, they do so for a monetary gain.
They find no issue with manipulating vulnerable and mentally ill people for money.
Obviously not all people who watch vtubers are like this, but these people are the ones who keep the vtuber scene afloat to begin with

They're hedonistic because they're using abusive tactics without remorse for the purpose of increasing their pleasure via money, power and satisfaction of themselves not being alone. They've disregarded commonly accepted morals for their own benefit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4083730
>Obviously not all people who watch vtubers are like this, but these people are the ones who keep the vtuber scene afloat to begin with
i view it like teams or any other thing which has distance between the fans and the main spectacle -- it's about the community and happiness you get from seeing hard working or good people succeed.
in other words, i don't think those people you refer to are what's keeping them afloat. i won't deny they exist but i think people who like the talents as people and feel good after watching them are far more common than those who think they're friends or such.

maybe it'd be best to compare it to a fictional novel... when one reads harry potter and buys merchandise because the story and characters resonate with them, do you consider that person engaging in a failed relationship with fantasy?
i don't. they're finding themselves through the fantasy. if you like hermione that says something about you and you can find like minded people who also liked hermione. of course there's also the benefit of exercising the mind and learning more of the world, as well as the emotional enjoyment.

as an example i've bought merchandise before. i don't have any hopes of the persons i bought from being my friend or girlfriend. to be quite honest i actually think it wouldn't work out in either case. i desire to meet people who like the people i like though. and i desire to see my favorites keep giving people advice on the world and time to be happy.

a small example: i struggle with being happy over the small things like enjoying a meal. i watch watame and i get a feeling that it's okay. i know it's an absurdity but it is a human one which makes it justifiable to me.
i don't think the vast majority of fans are being taken advantage of nearly as much as you think. your own views on life seem to be making sense of events in a manner such to justify your predisposition.
though i suppose it's possible it's a similar thought process to that which one would have for a friend. in such a case though i'd go back to referencing stories -- do you think the unreality of them, and distance from any characters, negates the positives?

i hope v-tubers keep going. i think they're a positive for the world who make it a better place. the anonymity makes it impossible to realistically hope for any relationship beyond what you have -- the same cannot be said for streamers who make their real self public and who make it possible to realistically meet them face to face.
beyond that v-tubers are also artists, not just in their streams but in their videos and music.
https://youtu.be/wZGLkYVwcCs

[Anonymous No.]

>>4083104
>>4083730
I'm not exactly sure what you saying. Epicurus advocated for hedonism in the sense of living an enjoyable and painless life (ataraxia/apolonia), but specifically advocated against activities that require difficulty to maintain and increasing pleasures such as seeking money or fame. He thought a relaxing life of the simplest pleasures that could not be disrupted was the best. >>4083302 actually encapsulates this very well with the example of novel foods and cooking.
Not sure about Theodorus, but I remember Bentham mentioned along with prosperity doctrine. That's very different, increasing pleasures mean increasing production in capitalistic society which is how he based his ethical philosophy.
I agree with >>4084221 that vtubers as a medium of fiction are not taking advantage of fans in the same way that a book or game doesn't, outside a small subset of fans that want to simp for them in the same way one would any other e-thot kayfabe be damned, but these people would do this with anything. Look at sports fans for example.

[Anonymous No.]

no, you get the fursona youtubes you deserve

[Anonymous No.]

>>4084221
or in other words: is the pain of knowing a fictional person isn't real worth the emotional investment and probing a novel provides, as well as greater understandings of the world we live in and the author's views of it?

i think the vast majority of people know they'll never have any major relationship with the talents. one might say 'why watch then? find someone you can have a major relationship with', but the reality is they truly are talents and some are able to entertain greatly. i have no female friends who are as consistently funny as some of the v-tubers i've seen.
also i think the people who are such asses as to have zero friends don't deserve mention here. they are not financially keeping v-tubers afloat. i understand it can be hard to find new friends, but i fail to understand how a decent person can fail the lottery so hard as to not have any chances to find similar people to themselves. the chances are low that it's not you if this is the case. if you want friends enough as to force a parasocial relationship with a v-tuber, you should have enough of a drive as to find real friends if you yourself aren't repulsive. that or your standards are ridiculous

but back on topic:
if they were just random girls i'd agree with you, but they're talented singers, comedians, and empaths. they're also autistic and a good amount have been through rough times which has made them much more interesting and insightful people.
...
i think it's also worth acknowledging the elephant in the room that we're allowed to see these traits of them because of anonymity. they say things some people will never hear from their friends.
because of this they can be a great resource for those philosophically inclined or curious about humans.

i'm the type of person who would pay you a hundred dollars to sit down with me and talk about your life. that's what makes me love v-tubers -- that they feel comfortable doing just that for free, and that they're so often interesting people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4084221
You're not manipulated or taken advantage of into Harry Potter.
You've also taken the point of vtubers taking advantage of people to mean majority when I've already stated it wasn't.

You're entire was a longwinded strawman and glossed over my main points as well
I guarantee you're a philosophy 101 student who just discovered Kant and thinks he's the worst

[Anonymous No.]

>>4085489
>You're not manipulated or taken advantage of into Harry Potter.
plenty of people find friendship with the characters. said friendship is then exploited to sell merchandise or new books.
the kind of person who makes anonymous Japanese v-tubers into parasocial relationships often aren't the type to make much money or be able to be there long term. people get tired of feeling ignored.

beyond that you said they were immoral and that they focused on making money from exploiting these people. it's just plain false, both of those statements.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4084549
Other mediums of fiction don't interact with you
There's a difference between a book saying I love you and a person saying it unless you're autistic and refuse to acknowledge the social impact of communication and how it differs dependent on its apparatus

Sports fans like sports regardless of it's interaction with them because it's a binary 1 way method of enjoyment
Vtubers aren't a binary style because it's interactive with "real" people that provide a sense of emotional/social connection lacking, this isn't a secondary or tertiary aspect like sports clubs/fanclubs, it's the main draw
This is why there are so many rules, because it's rooted in idol culture, and if you've done your research on the history of idol culture not only in how japan developed their methods based on american idol culture, but more importantly the anthropological analysis of its effect on people.

You're looking at this too myopically and only on the surface level

[Anonymous No.]

>>4085591
>plenty of people find friendship with the characters said friendship is then exploited to sell merchandise or new books.
That's on the reader not the writer, no reciprocation
Fictional stories are designed to evoke an emotional response, however the story remains a device, not a being
Vtubers purposely engage with humanlike engaging behaviors into getting profit, and they interact further and deeper than legacy media by being interactive

>the kind of person who makes anonymous Japanese v-tubers into parasocial relationships often aren't the type to make much money or be able to be there long term
Then that would imply that these men donating insane amount of money and always buying merch and staying up to date are in stable healthy relationships, which would be impossible as
no relationship would be stable or healthy when 1 partner is constantly giving money to a person offering a GFE
It's akin to the issue of most women not having a problem with their partner watching porn, but having a problem with them watching camgirls
The interactive aspect is always the key
The channels with the most superchat revenue are the ones offering GFE, you can literally see for yourself

I really do think you might be autistic if you don't think the non single human factor isn't the key difference between fiction.
It's literally science, not simply philosophy, proved by scientific method

[Anonymous No.]

>>4079079
Neoplatonism > Taoism, though they are quite similar in some respects.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4085592
>Vtubers aren't a binary style because it's interactive with "real" people that provide a sense of emotional/social connection lacking, this isn't a secondary or tertiary aspect like sports clubs/fanclubs, it's the main draw
They're talents. The most successful ones are extremely talented. It's a binary 1 way method of enjoyment as much as sports for most people -- they're there to laugh, feel good, and move on with their day. Superchat reading is even often completely segregated from the normal stream.
Old school idols didn't crack jokes constantly or talk about stories for hours. They required you spending time and money going to their shows. How can you compare that old idol to the modern V-Tuber whose audience comes and goes during streams?

I think it's ironic how much you criticize others when your views seem quite absurd even for here. More to the point you seem to have reached a conclusion and are now working backwards to support it.

[Anonymous No.]

Reminder to everyone about Eastern """Philosophy"""
There's no philosophy outside of The West, Eastern "Philosophy" is just random narratives SOME of which just might sound good or turn out to be true
In The East there's no argument, no logic, no reason. Only narratives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4085832
Christ... Theres a lot here but the simplest ones to debunk are obvious:
>The channels with the most superchat revenue are the ones offering GFE, you can literally see for yourself
Coco, Marine, etc.
>The interactive aspect is always the key
What are clips? The songs? The colabs? The vast majority of viewers will never have their comment read and they are fine with that.
Those that pay mostly do it out've gratitude. How many superchats are sent by people with their real name? They're anonymous. They have zero expectation of reciprocation. They rarely talk about themselves, it's almost always given to celebrate the person who gives them content.

I know my girlfriend likes Watame too and has a matching shirt. I don't know a single Watamate who views her as GFE. She's a nice sheep who's fun to watch.

>It's literally science, not simply philosophy, proved by scientific method
This line really is what makes me pick the obvious ones and call it a day. Either you're having fun or need a therapy session, either way I hope you keep in mind 4Chan is anonymous for spontaneity, human thought and censorship free posting. It's not anonymous for you to feel welcome with fringe theories. Also this board is going to be far more obsessive and fringe as it's 4chan -- basing reality off of here is a deadly mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4085778
Christ... Theres a lot here but the simplest ones to debunk are obvious:
>The channels with the most superchat revenue are the ones offering GFE, you can literally see for yourself
Coco, Marine, etc.
>The interactive aspect is always the key
What are clips? The songs? The colabs? The vast majority of viewers will never have their comment read and they are fine with that.
Those that pay mostly do it out've gratitude. How many superchats are sent by people with their real name? They're anonymous. They have zero expectation of reciprocation. They rarely talk about themselves, it's almost always given to celebrate the person who gives them content.
Why would most people pick a V-Tuber for the GFE over others? It's a self filtering selection, what GFE is left is much more minor compared to other streamers.

I know my girlfriend likes Watame too and has a matching shirt. I don't know a single Watamate who views her as GFE. She's a nice sheep who's fun to watch.

>It's literally science, not simply philosophy, proved by scientific method
This line really is what makes me pick the obvious ones and call it a day. Either you're having fun or need a therapy session, either way I hope you keep in mind 4Chan is anonymous for spontaneity, human thought and censorship free posting. It's not anonymous for you to feel welcome with fringe theories. Also this board is going to be far more obsessive and fringe as it's 4chan -- basing reality off of here is a deadly mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

This might be the most based thread I've seen on this board.

>>4082797
Anon, are you literally me? Your description of taoism feels a bit unusual, but that's what I thought too when I read Tao Te Ching. You put it into words better than me.
I'd also pay people to sit and talk with me about their life and I started watching chuubas for that. A glimpse into a life of someone really talented, or someone just comfy to be around, or someone who has interesting stories. I also get really emotional because of their idol stuff like 3D concerts and original songs, it feels nice knowing that even if they are only avatars and you're not listening to them in person their emotions can still reach you.

>>4082716
I'm in IT field and I'm still in the uni but I'm really interested in art history, I visit museums and exhibitons a lot. If I was a chuuba I would talk about paintings and architecture, not only old ones but including modern art too, because I really don't have any other special interests that I'm somewhat knowledgeable at. (And literally no one would watch it, kek)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4082797
The Tao Te Ching is interesting but hardly systematic. It's more of a narrative than an actual philosophical account of reality. There's no logical reasoning given for why Lao Tzu believes these things to be true, they're simply given as is. It's more of a work of mysticism than philosophy.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm phoneposting so I can't articulate, but I will get back to this when I get come. Many vtubers have brushed with philosophy and it's adjacent disciplines but there are no "philosophy" vtuber just yet. But I do have a list.
>CalebHorusTV
Uncle Ted and Camus
>Terumi Koizomi
Levinas
>Woyde_ch
Wittenstein
>Urara of Tsunderia
She refuses to admit it but Nietzsche. Namedrops some greek philo instead.
>Futakuchi Mana
Ocalan

[Anonymous No.]

>>4086227
Personally I find eastern works refreshing because no matter how hard you dig in the end there is no philosophical system, even the most logical and rational, that would give you all the answers and made constant anxiety throughout life a non-issue. But eastern stuff feels much better in that regard. I'm atheistic but I'm not against religion in general, I'm actually a bit envious of people who can be believers. Eastern philosophy, while having a lot of mysticism elements, does it for me. In my opinion, some things you just have to feel, no matter how hard your (and mine) rational mind denies it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4086297
>Levinas
Oh yuck

[Anonymous No.]

here u go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHeLz5OGKXI

[Anonymous No.]

>>4086297
I got interested in CalebHorus but then I googled and saw it's chuuba from /here/. Pretty cool but I'll still dream of living to the day when some completely normal vtuber girl namedrops any of the existentialists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4086227
I would agree but he makes clear the Dao isn't. When he stated that the Dao is above any god -- that is the key. The Dao is existence itself and the absurdity of it. That is why it cannot be spoken. Can you speak your mind? We have tried for an absurdly long time to no avail. It just is. We think consciousness is of course necessary, else there'd be no experiencing anything, but we have no sensical explanation to how we're born of nothing or why we are.

The Dao is not the house. It is the acknowledgment and appreciation of the foundation we all share. Regardless of if you believe it or not the Dao will be -- as the author states:
>The Tao is infinite, eternal.
>Why is it eternal?
>It was never born;
>thus it can never die.
>Why is it infinite?
>It has no desires for itself;

It's impossible for the Dao to not exist in any reality we would consider real.
There is no massive implication for the Dao existing -- belief in it is just the mark of a man who believes he cannot speak the mystery of existence.

[Anonymous No.]

Wow the amount of spooks in this thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>4086429
He's alright. I watch him since most of his streams are either seeing him in a sisphyean struggle, shooting shit with the boys or in quiet moments tangent to very existential questions and discontent toward modernity.

But as for girls? Maybe in the future, brother. I'll SC anya soon to ask her favorite philosopher.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4086537
>Wow the amount of spooks in this thread

[Anonymous No.]

oh yeah i meant to post this like 8 hours ago but it was kinda meh and i enjoy autistic discussions https://youtu.be/QsnlUn25OTM

[Anonymous No.]

>>4071322
>the motion to separate psychology from philosophy is arbitrary and limiting

Psychology (Philosophy of mind, and literally means "Soul Studies" in Greek) WAS a field of philosophy, and philosophers like Plato, Descartes, Nietzsche etc. were the first ones who tried studying the human mind, thought and will. That was, until the goddamn behaviourists came along and forced it to become a quantitative science by offing all of the "subjective" parts- which became devastating as it reduced the field into nothing more than "lol depression is just a chemical imbalance, if you take these drugs your depression is gone" Now we are learning that drugs and CBT have proven to be total failures in stopping depression and suicide, and some therapists (like my own) are learning to go back to good old Existential Philosophy as they actually knew how to handle the problems of depression and suicide directly (e.g. Camus)

[Anonymous No.]

Phew this is heavy stuff.
In any case, I always think about this (and I assume you guys know it as well):
We can only see what they want us to see.......and yet we can never feel what they are feeling right now.

So many examples of this:
-Aqua probably feeling pressured by self-expectation and decided to take a short break.
-Luna being cheerful on-screen........but some rrats I hear was that she is drinking a lot more than usual (but we don't know since she rarely reveals her personal life off-stream)

OR even graduations

The graduation of Natori Yaezawa (from .LIVE) reminds me of this:
We hear her cries but we can't see her sadness (probably a limitation of her Vtuber model or an inability to display such facial expressions)
-We know she left .LIVE.....but we don't know the exact reasons why she left or if it was her choice to leave (though I sense that she still wanted to be a part of .LIVE)

We wonder if she is still out there (I hope she is) but we would not know where.
She may be a virtual character...........but I consider her to be a real girl at heart.

Natori-chan:
If ever you are reading this or if you are still out there somewhere, I would like to ask:
-How have you been?
-Are you doing well?
-What have you been up to lately?
-There are times that we do miss you.......but even so, we hope that everything will go well for you.
&
-I am sorry if I was not there for you when you were so sad and lonely. Truth be told, I really wished that I was there with you so that you wouldn't have to cry all by yourself =(

[Anonymous No.]

>>4086595
he's not wrong

[Anonymous No.]

>>4056772
The only women that are good at philosophy are nuns

[Anonymous No.]

are you asking for working brain cells in a fad where girls get money for being fucking retarded?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4066758
>Kant
More like cunt haha

[Anonymous No.]

>>4086297
Urara question was also done by me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4086227
I would say that daoism is something you come to believe through practice and experience rather than rational inquiry. The dao is beyond comprehension, so the best we can do is undertake practices like meditation in order to better align ourselves with it.

[Anonymous No.]

https://youtu.be/shu1cmY6-SI

[Anonymous No.]

Explain entirety of Wittgenstein to me in a single post .

[Anonymous No.]

>>4091444
Explain my cock in your mouth lmao

[Anonymous No.]

>>4091444
Philosophical statements are often language games.

[Anonymous No.]

I know we larp the whole ((postmodernism)) thing, but why are you guys so about this eastern fetishization as though anyone not trained in such a tradition could really overcome the language/cultural barriers that gatekeep the fuck out of everything eastern?
I really expected a bunch of Nietzsche 'scholars' purporting to be Zarathustra himself, or pushing the will to power, but you guys are jerking off the eastern "exist less" tradition

[Anonymous No.]

>>4092733
I find that it's more common in zen circles to deride anything westerners speak of those matters to "not be real zen".

[Anonymous No.]

>>4091444
It's gay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4092858
being in the zone is not really that complex or abstract idea

[Anonymous No.]

Although she doesn't namedrop any philosophers or seem articulated in philosophy, Kana verbalizing her struggle with VTubing, doing what she wants and doing what she thinks she needs to do is pretty fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4092733
What does postmodernism have to do with "eastern fetishization"? And anons here have been discussing taoism, nothing really to gatekeep here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4093119
I was referencing the prominent tradition on our senegalese shrimp fighting newsletter of calling anything less traditional than say, Kant, to be 'postmodern' and therefore ideologically unsound. I figured that was the reason this thread somehow gravitated towards taoism, which I'm convinced no non-chinese can properly understand, at least without chinese instruction. I would normally have assumed this place would be full of existentialist doomers or some Landian crap, really anything but this
The gatekeeping I was trying to reference is that's exercised by easterners when traditions like taoism and confucianism get brought up. Naturally this isn't a universal experience, but I really question the ability/education of anyone here to be able to do much more than any undergrad with a copy of the tao te ching and undiagnosed depression

[Anonymous No.]

>>4091444

[Anonymous No.]

>>4093376
>no non-chinese can understand what a guy like george lucas managed to bastardize as the force
if george lucas can grasp the concept well enough to rip off from it i don't think it is really all that complex

[Anonymous No.]

https://youtu.be/zwLccJOMTX0

[Anonymous No.]

>>4093698
anon, I see what you're getting at, and I understand that the concept of "positive and negative both exist" is hardly revolutionary, but I think it's reductionist to claim that Lucas did anything more than open an encyclopedia. that's like saying the essence of platonism is "real things bad forms good"

[Anonymous No.]

>>4093843
i don't know man, i think his explanation of the force t yoda man was pretty spot on same nonsense as the tao, tao that can be expressed is not the eternal tao etc but lucas clearly and shamelessly ripped off the idea of the force from the tao

[Anonymous No.]

also plato's forms are a retarded way to explore ideas, a perfect for that exists in another place is literally some greek fuckwit trying to explain to a bunch of peasants and street shitters that the idea of what a perfect form is exists inside your head

[Anonymous No.]

back in them days people weren't very educated and generally were dumb as bricks, even stuff we take for granted like concept of morality and elements had to be explained to those retards as gods so the morons could get it in a form of stories

[Anonymous No.]

>>4092946
it is when you have a strange attachment to your own interpretations

[Anonymous No.]

>>4094346
you don't?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4094390
the fact that I brought it up in the first place shows that I do indeed, carry such feelings
up until now I haven't actually discussed zen with anyone

[Anonymous No.]

The Dao can't be spoken. If it is said the Easterners understand, it is a... construction. What matters is that you are able to have a clear view of the world like a baby. Effortless action. Obviously it seems impossible to achieve such clarity, and this is partially true... The Dao can't be held, but that is in part because we already 'hold' it. Again think about your mind. Can you understand it? The obvious answer is no, but at the same time it's absurd to say you don't understand it... you understand it when you are not thinking about it.

In much the same way as the mind the Dao just is. There isn't necessarily any great meaning to it existing, much like our mind. But it baffles us upon exercises of effort into it, just like the mind. For those of us suicidal, depressed, or constantly inquiring, this baffling proves a great and enthralling mystery -- and a nice way to humble our rational side telling us we all fade to dust.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4095527
that's not philosophy, it's just retarded wordplay

[Anonymous No.]

>>4095527
I took a pretty okay seminar about taoism, but it really just struck me as needlessly obscurant and vague, even by eastern standards. If it really is more like a mystic tradition than something more traditionally philosophical (at least from a western standpoint), then the only real dialogue that would be more than conjecture would have to come from trained practitioners, simply because there’s not nearly as much discourse outside its native language than inside
I guess what Im getting at is that this all seems like elaborate coping, essentially an eastern stoicism analogue. The tao is amazing certainly, but what can we as the uninitiated do but gawp and meditate on the tao/force/logos/God/creation? And at that point, its basically just CBT

[Anonymous No.]

>>4095790
Retarded wordplay is unironically a solid portion of most eastern traditions. Its part if why knowing the language is pretty much a must, since SO much comes down to interpretation

[Anonymous No.]

Gay thread nerds

[Anonymous No.]

>>4095813
>but what can we as the uninitiated do but gawp and meditate on the tao/force/logos/God/creation?
that's usually when the clergy comes along and declares that only they are enlightened enough to hand out salvation and thereby elevate themselves to the upper class, of course.
eastern religious clergy really missed out by not getting organized like catholicism and sunni islam did, the pope was pretty much emperor of europe until protestantism came along

[Anonymous No.]

>>4068103
Hegel was a fraud you fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.]

>>4095790
The point is the Taoist cannot speak the Dao to you. You already have it. All he can do is try to remove the barriers you've put up.
Lao Tsu did not write Tao Te Ching as if he felt the universe would be less without it. Instead he felt effortless action was contemplation and speaking of the Dao. Unlike most religions or philosophoes Taoism doesnt intrinsically care whether you follow it. Do what thou wilt, or rather what thou doesn't have to try.

You should know by now nobody can answer what is life better than yourself, even if you don't understand your answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4095813
>what can we as the uninitiated do
Just live your life accepting that you exist, that's it. Anon literally cited this thing about monk and rice porridge earlier ITT. Once it clicks taoism isn't really so hard to understand. It's as simple as it gets.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4091444
"Meaning" (in the linguistic sense) can only be derived from how we observe language being used. Anything more concrete than that cannot avoid skepticism (in other words, there are no "facts" about meaning). You might call it is the radical opposite of logical atomism (the idea that there are elementary propositions, like atoms, that make up the meaning of the world, or "all truths" as Russell put it).
In fact what is most famous about Wittgenstein is that he originally argued strongly for a form of logical atomism, before later realizing the entire project is pointless and writing the radical opposite thesis I am talking about here.

He uses various mind experiments to prove this sort of meaning skepticism. Two of the most famous ones are the "rule-following paradox" (Basically: No course of action can be determined by a rule because every rule is just an interpretation of courses of action. Every rule can always be interpreted in such a way that every course of action can be out to accord, or to conflict with it. Basically basically: You can never be certain you are actually following a rule at all.) and the "private language argument" (Basically: It's impossible to have a language that is only understandable to a single individual, its creator. By only I mean necessarily only, not just: "hasn't been translated yet", but rather "cannot be translated" - Such a private language would be incoherent.)

He argues that basically all philosophical "problems" are simply caused by language confusion (thus aren't really true problems at all) and that philosophy can/should do is act in a therapeutic way by clearing up the language. Ironically, the idea that philosophy is a meme is the one thing that has stayed consistent between his two changing views.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4068103
>Hegel

t.New Vegas fan

[Anonymous No.]

This thread is pure ideology

[Anonymous No.]

>>4098539
sounds spooky

[Anonymous No.]

>>4098539
ideaology from idol fags, who would expect that

[Anonymous No.]

>>4082797
>>4086485
Firstly thank you for taking the time to write out that long post. And secondly before I jump in. If one of the two of you can explain to me the difference between Tao and Dao, that would be great.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4099101
same shit, different name

[Anonymous No.]

>>4099225
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4098627
I would had expected theology, since idol worship is a distant cousin to shintoistic neopaganism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4099101
depends on what you mean.
>>4099277
theres a religion around taoism that is different from taoist philosophy. imagine for a moment if people started a religion explicitly around plato's theory of forms. being a taoist can mean either a religious sense or philosophical sense. some people use daoism or taoism depending on which one someone is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4098627
*sniff*

[Anonymous No.]

>>4063876
what are vtubers if not that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4080984
Well, it only took me going to bed but the video finally processed. I hope the Daoposter enjoys this little interaction.
https://youtu.be/XT3sv2WZdYw

>>4093376
Yeah, I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see so much Daoposting. Then again, the detachment that comes with posting here often is kinda like a preparation for "letting yourself float upon the river" as the Dao is often compared to.

>>4091444
See >>4091644 but it's far more than just philosophical statement, almost all statements about the mind or personal state of being are not descriptions or observations but rather strategic communication. Think about what statements like 'It's a good day' or 'I'm in a bad mood' actually say in terms of information, and how they are both phrased as descriptions despite their lack of content. These avowals both the speaker and audience. Apply this to things like introspection, intention, etc. to see how language is very often a tool for self-deception.
This leads into an idea he posited, that language structures thinking, and it is impossible to think outside the boundaries of one's language. There's no escaping the language game, though acquiring new languages can help broaden what one can conceive of and allow them to critically examine the language that their mind runs on so to speak.
For a short introductory lecture to Wittgenstein, and how his ideas have fared in scientific discourse, I will send you to my friend Mr. Woyde: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D3moRTmwsk

>>4089269
Unironically very based. Premodern cultures recognized the unique gift of women in otherworldly insight and intuition, elevating them as oracles and priestesses. This is a common theme in the stories of female saints (Jeanne d'arc, Teresa, even Mary, etc.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4067709
Truly one of the greatest minds of our time

[Anonymous No.]

>>4091444

[Anonymous No.]

>>4095790
increase your WIS before replying

[Anonymous No.]

>>4068103
spotted the faggot

[Anonymous No.]

>>4097851
Absolutely based.
>>4102862
AYANA LOVE
KIMIKA LOVE

[Anonymous No.]

>>4071322
What the fuck is going on here? A duck touching class?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4102088
>the unique gift of women in otherworldly insight and intuition
lmao get the fuck outta here with this xfiles shit
>>>/x/
>>4103829
the more obtuse a statement is, the more likely it's bullshit
t. 20 wis natty

[Anonymous No.]

How do you even get into philosophy, is there even an entrypoint? I studied french guys talking about how cool going on an adventure, raping and killing is but there seem to be much more to it than that.
>>4104347

[Anonymous No.]

>>4105038
>How do you even get into philosophy, is there even an entrypoint?
Neo Genesis Evangelion.
Some years later you realize it had nothing to do with actual philosophy at all but the damage is already done.

[Anonymous No.]

Is the Unabomber a philosopher?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4104471
Natural 20s do not work that way. Goodnight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4105216
He actually did shit so no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4105038
Start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.]

>>4094052
>Plato was secretly a Kantian
Anon are you retarded. He makes a whole argument specifically about why the Forms can't be mere mental projections and must exist in an objective extramental realm of their own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4105038
Plato's republic is probably a good starting point.
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.html

This channel has a lot of nice lectures
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFaYLR_1aryjfB7hLrKGRaQ

Be warned though anon in the end Nietzsche, and to an even more disturbing level Foucault, are probably right about humans and how this all works. Most of society is a larp. Of course here is something to be said about roleplay. If humans did not believe in the false they may have never bothered to create the real.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4105038
It depends how serious you are about philosophy. I think for the average person, the best thing you can do is jump in with a philosopher/subject that sounds interesting to you and just use secondary resources like the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy online to help explain things you aren't getting. It's always going to be more motivating to read about something that interests you than following some dry reading order.
Philosophy often builds on itself, so some especially difficult or technical writers would be virtually impossible to get without background knowledge, but most philosophy is still comprehensible on a basic level without heavy background. Also, there are some philosophers like the existentialists who are totally accessible for a newcomer. But if you really want to dig in and get a better theoretical grounding, I'd start with a broad overview of philosophy like the Story of Philosophy by Durant, and then start with early Greek philosophers like the Presocratics and Plato to get a feel for what it's all about and go from there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4105160
NGE has some philosophical underpinnings, but it's fundamentally more of a psychological work. Still the best anime of all time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4105038
>>4105248
As said before, start with the greeks. I would add that it's important to have people you can talk about philosophy with. There's a rule said as "don't talk philosophy with non-philosophers" but I think that should be amended as "don't talk philosophy with insightless people". Genuine people with open and curious minds, even non-read ones, are your best friends in checking you so you don't develop some weird interpretation from your preconceptions or rationalizations, or stray too far into wordy esoteric BS. Find your salon, reading group or church before you set out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4104204

[Anonymous No.]

>>4105038
>>4071322
You guys have the whole pack?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4102042
... oh fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4079079
Isn't taoism a religion?

[Anonymous No.]

Every philosopher mentioned in this thread is a white male, yikes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4108551
There's Taoism, but yes.

[Anonymous No.]

Philosophy is gay, Tradtiion is all you need

[Anonymous No.]

>>4109821
Become the philosopher king your traditions ask of you, anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>4107711
i don't know much about the religion but the religion has much more going on than just the dao. gods, rituals, etc etc. you can be a "taoist" without caring about anything but tao te ching