Hot take:

[Anonymous No.]

Not owning the character IP is a small price to pay when you take into account the following things:

>Cover is literally giving you 200 - 300K subscribers before you even say a word (see HoloX and Council). Even the least popular Hololive talents are doing just fine by general streamer standards.
>All you have to do is the bare minimum and financially you'll be set for the next decade at the very least.
>Kson and Mikeneko have proven that even after you leave, you'll STILL have a following even without the Holo character.

[Anonymous No.]

Black company.

[Anonymous No.]

Taking it down from a "hot take" to a "warm but won't burn your mouth" take.
Not owning the character IP is a tradeoff, that definitely has benefits, when you take into account the following things:

>Cover is literally giving you 200 - 300K subscribers before you even say a word (see HoloX and Council). Even the least popular Hololive talents are doing just fine by general streamer standards.
>All you have to do is the bare minimum and financially you'll be set for the next decade at the very least.
>Kson and Mikeneko have proven that even after you leave, you'll STILL have a following even without the Holo character.

These benefits are definitely desired by many vtubers. Despite these benefits, it may not be the right choice for everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

Not really a hot take. You're also right.
>inb4 anti-Cover schizos go: N-NOOOOOO! COVER IS LE BIG BAD EVIL CORPO!!! THE HOLOS SHOULD ALL OWN THE CHARACTER IPs EVEN THOUGH COVER CREATED ALL THE CHARACTERS BESIDES SUISEI!! COVER IS BLACK COMPANY!! REEEEEEE GAAAGH *foams at the mouth*
>27815392
Kek didn't even manage to post before they entered the thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
>>Kson and Mikeneko have proven that even after you leave, you'll STILL have a following even without the Holo character.
Vtuber corpos have no power, specially Hololive.
Every Holo could set a roommate vtuber would get as much without the Cover money cut.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27815483
That's exactly it. Is it worth it to you?

And next to the benefits, there are risks as it puts you into a weaker position in negotiations.

A similar thing could be said about agencies that hire a lot of VTubers. The more VTubers they have, the less it hurts them to lose someone, which puts the VTubers at a weaker position. That's actually why I don't understand hololive alternative as a project, because it at least on a emotional level depends on keeping the talent.

But at the same time you may have some boost like Kson or Mikeneko. Even with all the haters they get less but relatively decent numbers.

[Anonymous No.]

The best way to do it is how KSON has done it. Raise your profile with hololive and then go to vshojo where you get more money and less corporate politics.

Used to be hololive was the goal, but now it's a stepping stone

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816187
Provided, of course, that you don't want to be an idol. Kson straight up said she realized that wasn't what she was good at and wanted to move away from it, but talents like Sora, Suisei, Kiara, and even Gura to an extent, would all benefit from staying at Hololive considering their goals.

[Anonymous No.]

why should you own the IP that the company created and bankrolled? Yeah the person playing it built up but it's still the company's regardless and without the financial backing and various other things like staff/contacts/merch/manager etc, It takes two to tango.

What stops people from just force graduating and taking the fans they've built up? Kson is living in a fucking dream world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816440
100% agree.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816187
Or simply get a fanbox and never work ever again because people pay you 100 for a monthly menhera rant
If your goal is money there's better ways to milk fans in and out of hololive for less hassle

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
kson basically stole fans from Hololive, then has the audacity to call them unjust

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816387
Even those that want to be idols would be better off outside of hololive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816440
>What stops people from just force graduating and taking the fans they've built up?
Cyberlive in a nutshell, everyone leaves with the model once the contract ends lmao

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816566
Nah, as incompetent as they seem to people, if there's one thing Hololive has done well, it's their idol stuff. Albums, 3D concerts, marketing, if you want to be an idol, all of this is doable on your own, sure, but it's 10x harder.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816187
Kson is literal proof that people MAINLY care about the Holo character.
The room mate isn't the same.
Reincarnation is not the same.
Only maybe 3-4 people could quit Holo and be successful as an indie.

Also you clearly CAN earn decent money, Look at all the members who don't have a fanbox, They live quite comfortably. Some people just don't want to put the effort in and others have had a life on the internet before Holo which they refuse to give up which is fair.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
How much money do Iofi, Anya and Sana make when you take into account Cover's cut and Youtube's cut of their earnings?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816566
>Those who want to be idols would be better off not in the #1 V-Tuber group who happens to be idol focused.
lol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816440
The talents themselves almost all get this, it’s just the fans who seem to not understand that. If you’re a vtuber who has a big fan base and you leave, either you can be successful again as an indie, or the corpo was the only reason you saw success.

Either way, of course the corpo owns the avatar. Because every fan of Coco who doesn’t watch Kson was interested primarily in the Hololive character, not the performer. And that includes me

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816677
Kson literally kept like 70% of her Hololive fanbase, and it looks like Rushia is also keeping most of hers. I disagree, the hardcore part of your audience will follow you no matter what.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816440
You keep people by offering good services. If the only way to keep employees is to bind them, then that doesn't speak for the quality of what you offer in return.

And that's the problem. The corpo model works great for building up talent, and is fair during the phase where a talent is built up. But it still hasn't fully figured out keeping talents without somewhat forcing them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816724
Doesn't Youtube only take a cut of their supers? Regardless, I remember someone said that superchats aren't even the main way that Hololive talents make money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816724
Clearly enough where anya can spend 10 hours a day gaming, also indos have streamlabs and they don't get the youtube cut there
Also Sana earns a lot for how little she streams

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816795
Said fanbase barely watches her though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
Get the picture of that ugly fucking whore off my board

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816724
The question for them is not “Does Cover deserve to take that much money.”
The question is, “Are these talents capable enough of seeing any success by themselves?”
If you’re in Hololive and not getting that much money because you’re not that popular, while your genmates all might you, then that’s not Cover’s fault.
Any of those three are free to leave, but what little success they did see was entirely due to Cover. If Sana thinks she can make more money as a vtuber without Cover, then all the best luck to her. I have no idea how she’s gonna do it when the only reason anyone pays attention to her is the few pieces of fanart of her that still come out every once in awhile

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816795
Hardcore yes, most of the fanbase no. And keep in mind kson was already streaming as kson way before she graduated, her hardcore fanbase was already used to that channel

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817064 (me)
I meant to say “mog you” not “might you”. Fuck

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816821
Holo has had two graduations and both were severe in the context and not just, I'm bored/had enough of Holo and want to graduate.

They must be doing something right to keep hold of everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816795
Kson is a 4k ccv streamer Anon. That’s sana lvl…

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817148
In Rushia's case specifically, I genuinely do not understand how people STILL don't get that she did not choose to leave. She was fired. Rushia would **literally** still be working at Hololive if she hadn't been pushed out the door.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817200
Yeah, that's bad by Hololive standards, but, again, look at GENERAL streamer standards. There are many, many, many people who would kill to have 100 ccv.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817272
There’s a reason people hate Sana. I don’t personally think it’s worth my time to think about her at all, but I sure do sympathize when I do see the hate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
>financially you'll be set for the next decade
Anon, they are JP. JP waste every single coin they have on gacha. See Pekora that dumb whore spending 2k in a single stream

[Anonymous No.]

On the contray, why do successful indies join third rate companies? They never receive a viewer boost and collabed with the same people before and after they joined. It doesn't make a difference on the outside and on the inside, the company takes a cut. So, what gives?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
>Cover is literally giving you 200 - 300K subscribers
Thanks to the talents and community.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817430
The only case like this I know details of is Gura's.

With her, simply put, she didn't like the direction her previous channel was going in and wanted a fresh start. And, in her case, let's be real, that has been the best decision she's made in her whole life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817426
And lots of pro athletes go bankrupt after being paid millions. If Cover has done anything wrong, enabling Pekora’s idiocy is not it

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817526
>See HoloX and Council.
Before the talent even posted a word on Twitter or streamed for the first time, they had hundreds of thousands of subs. Their talent had nothing to do with it, the brand did that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817526
t. retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817531
You need to take your medications if you think her joining Hololive wasn't the best decision of her life. It doesn't matter from what angle you look at it, it only benefitet her in every aspect. Very much unlike most VTwitchers that join companies for seemingly no benefit at all. Quite the opposite.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817526
Who brought those talents together and created a brand that made fans flock to new talents just for being affiliated with Hololive?
Even if now they can mostly sit back and let the talents do their thing, they get passive income as reward for building all that in the first place when they weren’t guaranteed to make back the money they’d invested.
Thinking that spending the money to get everything set up in the first place doesn’t give you the right to a share of the profits makes you a Communist.

No, literally. That’s what the “capital” in Das Kapital is about. Everyone who’s saying Cover doesn’t deserve credit for the talents’ success if they debuted after Hololive got big is basically taking Marx’s side on this debate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817430
Speaking for Mikeneko, she literally cannot handle the background details involved in streaming, but she WANTS to stream because it stabilizes her mentally. This is a deeper problem because to even have other people handle it for you, you need to first go through the process of hiring people to do so in the first place...which she also can't handle.
Basically, she needs the equation to be as simple as signing a sheet of paper or whatever to get full background support, otherwise she literally cannot properly stream

[Anonymous No.]

>>27818259
Yep. It’s not how hard the stuff the corpo does that determines their right to a share of the vtuber’s profits. It’s how much a vtuber needs that shit.
And mikeneko is far from the only menhera vtuber out there

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
I don't get why anyone thinks it's in any way strange to not own the character you voice when you're working for someone else whom is literally creating the characters. having the freedom to do with it as you will within the bounds of your job is not the same as ownership.
stuff like cyberlive's policy letting you take it with you is the abnormality in the world of voice acting, not the rule.

[Anonymous No.]

kson is a menhera cunt
she should have been stabbed to death by a zhang in japan

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
Cover needs to stop leeching Kson and Mikeneko sucess, stop shilling you holowhores her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27818762
Funnily enough though, VShojo don't take a cut out of memberships or superchats/donations, unlike Cover.
I'd be curious to see a full breakdown of that stuff since VShojo still takes a cut from merch and sponsorships (but not merch paid fully by the talent), but I imagine she'll keep a far greater percentage of her earnings than she did as Rushia. Also, she still keeps the Nazuna model even if she leaves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27819147
Again, this goes back to the whole "why do you want to join Hololive?" thing. I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that every single vtuber out there should join Holo over VShojo, but rather that if your goals align with Holo (like a Suisei, Sora, Miko, etc.) then it makes all the sense in the world that Cover gets to keep the IP as a tradeoff for giving you what you want.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27819389 (Me)
Although, Suisei owns her own character, but you get my point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817064
Cover does this thing where they try to financially prop up their lower performers with sponsors. Aki for instance, despite being near the very bottom of JP, gets tons of sponsors and collabs that she would have never gotten otherwise.
Coco was in a unique situation because her decision to quit was made before Cover got showered in sponsors (May 2021 is when Cover started getting sponsors consistently) and she herself was rarely given sponsorships as a Holo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27819389
On the other side uou can't really ask the question "Why do you want to join Vshojo?" though, Vshojos looks for YOU and vshojo only wants the bigger fish, and in the case of the bigger fish there's pretty much no incentive to join vshojo when they're already doing well by themselves

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817591
Why do you have to only look at holox and council?
Gen 4 debuted to 80k something subs
Going all the way back to Sora and Miko were 2 views
Each generation takes from the group, and each gives back to the group to make it bigger for the next gen. That's all on the talent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27819738
>and in the case of the bigger fish there's pretty much no incentive to join vshojo when they're already doing well by themselves
One of the reasons Kson gave was that it was incredibly hard for her as an indie to negotiate merchandise deals because she essentially had to do everything herself. Joining VShojo means that they can organise that side of things for her, and they'll get better deals because of the brand name. They also arrange sponsorships.
When you consider that the only cut they take are from stuff that they organise for the vtubers, it's not a surprise that the big fish might still be interested.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27819879
Because (obviously) the brand wasn't what was back then.

You should only look at HoloX and Council because they are the indicators for what future gens can expect, not Sora and Miko.

Or, in other words, the talent got the company to where it is today, but the brand is what is going to make those 300K subscribers be there when you debut from now on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
So Cover is just a stepstone which I can abandon once I get 1 million subscribers. Got it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27819879
>Gen 4 debuted to 80k something subs
It was only Coco and it was still fucking massive by the time, remember this was before any of the corpos got a 1m subs streamer. Even Gen 3 debuted with a good amount of subs relative to the others at the time, hololive was already a known company with Gen 2

[Anonymous No.]

>>27818259
I mean successful as an indie, not retaining your viewers from leaving a corporation but otherwise being a trainwreck. I'm talking about chuubas that do fine as indies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27815483
I'm not actually adding anything, but your last sentence sounds straight out of one of those godawful medication commercials and I'm sitting here cracking up.
"Remember, consult with your inner schizo to see if Hololive is right for you"

[Anonymous No.]

>>27820415
I mean, when you view it like that, again, literally what reason do they have NOT to keep the IP?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27820415
Sure but why would you leave the easiest job in the world. Remember this is the company with ayame

[Anonymous No.]

>>27815891
Hololive is very unlikely to lose talents since it's such a lucrative gig. The talents are also unlikely to make extravagant requests in their contract negotiations since they already get a better deal than they could get pretty much anywhere else, as long as they can get incremental benefits (like extra points on merch or SC) they should generally be happy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27821068
Lamy was able to renegotiate her contract within 6 months of debuting (she asked for a higher percentage of SC) iirc.

[Anonymous No.]

Just stopped in to give my unsolicited opinion.

Vtubers are empty husks. They're animated by the person providing them with a voice and personality. Rather than being a scripted performance like standard anime characters, the vtuber themself lives and dies based on their own abilities as a streamer. For that reason, I don't see hollowing one out as defensible.

Rather than an IP the company owns, a vtuber is more accurately an investment bestowed upon someone they believe is worthy. Clawing back that investment and maintaining control over it seems pointless and greedy, as an already inhabited vtuber can't simply be repurposed without controversy. And the greater the notoriety of that vtuber, the more backlash there'd be.

A certain company might've gotten away with it, and I actually have a favorable opinion of the current Cocoa. But ideally the only reason a vtuber should ever be forced to part ways with the character they invested themself into is if they themself don't plan on actually continuing to vtube as that character, in which case rescuing that character from abandonment and irrelevance by giving it to someone else would be the humane thing to do. However, whether or not to continue living as their character is a choice the vtuber themself should be making.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27821375
It's like you just ignored every single point that's been made in this thread. I'm honestly impressed.

[Anonymous No.]

I’d rather not get a shitty model from cover, it’s obvious they don’t give a shit, even the 3.0 upgrade is complete ass and a year late, fucking indies have better models and rigging

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
I love how you don't realize you just described a sleazy idol company

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816187
Coco didn't fit in Hololive from the very beginning, she was always pushing the limits and didn't like idol culture or even Vtubing culture, but streaming and using a 2D model as a resource
Trying to compare her with any member that is actually into idols, singing or even just Vtubing as it was supposed to be is plain stupid

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816187
>hololive is just a stepping stone for kson
you got that right

[Anonymous No.]

>>27820415
You could do that yeah, but you get free money for staying in. Look at Ayame and Sana. Why even graduate? Just join and leech.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27821908
>sleazy
>sets their talent up financially for life.
>small work = big rewards
>And all they ask for in return is to keep the IP to themselves and for you not to talk about the 50 guys who fucked you the night prior.

Please, tell me. Where's the "sleazy" part? I seem to have missed it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
so Cdawg was right, holobronies will watch anything even if it's shit because their retarted.

[Anonymous No.]

BUT WHAT ABOUT SUISEI SHE IS LITERALLY HOMELESS IN 1 MONTH BECAUSE OF ALL THIS SHIT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rWsYPv7TsM

[Anonymous No.]

>>27823773
WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK ABOUT SUISEI?!

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816724
No one knows.
I did hear something to the extent that the lower earners/less popular holos are in effect subsidized by the higher earners with their salary from cover. It might be more for the lower earners than what's given to the popular holos as they don't really need the paltry sum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816440
Considering she used to do work for sega advertising for them it's surprising she doesn't understand it considering she was hired by them to shill intellectual property she had no ownership over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27823773
>>27824058
This is unrelated to Friend C.
Kanata and Friend C already moved (together) to a different building, and now Kanata is moving out of that one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27824155
Going by her members posts that were already posted here a day or two ago, it sounds like she's more upset that she can't freely tap into the Hololive audience anymore. It's pretty clear that Cover banned everyone from collabing with her as a Holo. Since she's spearheading VshojoJP now, it's more or less her job to expand VshojoJP's sphere of influence and her being cut off from the two major organizations (Hololive/Nijisanji) must hurt quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27824624
ANON LISTEN SUISEI WILL BE HOMELESS! ON THE STREETS! AND SHE FINDS THE PROSPECT EXCITING! WHO CARES ABOUT THAT SHIT SUISEI IS GOING TO BE ON THE LOSE IN THE STREETS OF JAPAN HUNTING HOBOS FOR SPORT AND YOU THINK I CARE ABOUT FACTS! KANATA AND KSON COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS! THE STREETS WILL RUN RED AND THAT BLOOD IS ON THEIR HANDS!

[Anonymous No.]

>>27823222
This statement would be true if you replaced holobronies with every Twitch user.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27814941
i hope kson gets raped and dies :)

[Anonymous No.]

>>27815483
You sould tell this shit in front of Fandead
Trade off my ass

[Anonymous No.]

>>27821958
Opposite
> If Rushia stay in Hololive
> Kson will never join Vshojo
> Melody and Mouse unexpected Kson really join them

[Anonymous No.]

>>27821958
If you think about it the image is pretty fucking based. Destroy your previous company and join a whorehouse. Everyone seethes

[Anonymous No.]

>>27824809
>>27824058
>>27823773
COME ON JAPAN LET ME IN I CAN SAVE HER

[Anonymous No.]

>>27828899
Holo/Stay Live : Heavenfeel Route

Kson - Emiya Shiro
Coco - Archer
Rushia - Matou Sakura
Saber - Kanata
Cover - Holygrails system

[Anonymous No.]

>>27815578
This board is flooded with leftie virtue signaling faggots trying to take on the "big corps" and fighting against the "idol culture" because it doesnt empower women.
I'm honestly not even surprised by the content of this board anymore. It's 90% reddit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816795
remember, holofag watch chuba for the
>brand

[Nice bait No.]

>>27814941
I remember the former Millie saying she prefers to be under a company. She convinced me that being under a company is better.
There is just too much work for being an indie.
If you love streaming and nothing else, being under a company is the best. The company will provide the most basic things to stream for you.
But if you prefer to do things yourself, and if you are good at networking, then being indie is the best.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27817526
More like the brand
It's the brand that brought the community over
Mind you the older gens used to struggle to get those number of subs, the newer gens get those number of subs even before their debut stream

[Anonymous No.]

>>27823222
C-man was always right

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816554
How she stole fan from hololive?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27819879
While the talents did contribute, the power of brand is not to be overlook
The fact that all these vtubers are connected to each other and under the same company is boosting their numbers
It's common for some people to subscribe to other holos channel out of respect because they are in the same company

[Anonymous No.]

>>27829539
lol this is a rrat I can get behind

[Anonymous No.]

>>27821889
Indies have had "better models and rigging" since the beginning you faggot, if you care so much about that go watch your 2 views and stop complaining about actual improvement instead of stagnation

[Anonymous No.]

>>27816724
She may not be the biggest earner or have the largest fanbase, but Anya has really come a long way, and plays games that she enjoys which usually end up going for a long time. I know she won't hit Gura levels of subs, but I think she really does deserve more recognition. Iofi just seems really mad lately if you see her recent streams. Sans is just there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27821375
Here's the problem with your idea. What reason is there for the company to invest into something if you had no reason to stay? People leaving actively hurts the brand and fantasy that is the holo box. Growing talents and giving them 500k subs for free and then letting them go for free would basically just be charity and destroy their own lifeline.