/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

PRISM is a black company

Hololive was at the right place at the right time, and assisted heavily by memes. You can't manufacture any of that, and I'd think if those companies had any sense, they wouldn't be trying to gun for the top, but rather carve out their own market.

>>9403159
The smaller startups will always have a place because they serve as a middle ground between being an indie and being part of a big company, and it's still definitely possible to find a lot of success as part of them.

>>9403247
And Tsunderia's a yellow company. what's your point?

No, they mostly just exist as a stepping stone for girls to get into larger orgs.
The Youtube algorithm is very inflexible and won't rec girls from these orgs to new viewers so they get very little exposure.
Some of them definitely work harder than the big corpo chuubas though, like Shiki and Luto from Prism, Tenma and Uruka from Phase Connect, and Lumi from Cyberlive could all gain a lot more success if they were in a larger company that can support them better.

>>9403159
>have a chance of making it to hololive/nijisanji levels of success?
No, but you don't need that in order to pay your bills in perpetuity and keep recruiting new talents when the old ones graduate, so it's a pretty uninteresting question.

PRISM is already well on its way to making a a major market for itself and Phase is on a steady incline.
Cyberlife is pretty much exclusively pulled by a single talent at the moment so we'll have to see.

>>9403370
There is no real market here, it's just catching the drippings. There's hardly anything actually distinguishing all of those groups from Hololive/Niji other than the fact that they get to get away with shit that wouldn't fly in Hololive, like Luto and Pippa.

All they need is a big meme.

>>9403159
I love these startups. I have at least one girl I watch from each of them. Indies are too unruly and big corpos are too restrictive.

>>9403159
>do you think any of the current small startup agencies like Tsunderia, Prism, Phase Connect, Kawaii, Cyberlive, etc. have a chance of making it to hololive/nijisanji levels of success?
Good question...

>>9403159
Shouldn't you be worrying about them scouting interesting streamers instead of how well their numbers will do? Does anyone on /vt/ actually watch vtuber streams?

>>9403159
I recently started watching some of the Cyberlive girls. They're cool.
I don't think they'll be as successful as bigger companies as it's impossible to re-create that lightning in bottle moment that Hololive and Nijisanji had last year. HOWEVER, if the market is big enough, taking away a percentage of the bigger companies profits may be good enough.

>>9405261
>if the market is big enough
I like and fear where you're going with this.

I thought tsunderia was just a group kana made with her irl friends until kana left. They are literally dead without their only relevant member.

>>9407055
Given what's gone on with Kana recently it's probably for the best.

>>9407055
>Tsunderia
>Literally dead
>Currently the only startup that's known to be financially stable

>>9403159
>have a chance of making it to hololive/nijisanji levels of success?
no, but
they dont need this level of success to be profitable and sustainable.

>>9407055
It only seems that way because they pander to us the least. Their viewership numbers, on average, are higher or on par with every other startup out there, not to mention the sponsorships and partnerships they've made.
Besides, Kana has proven to be an unstable mess that has no professionalism and can't handle any responsibility, let alone being the face of a company. Just the fact that you didn't realize she was in a company shows how little she actually cared about anyone's success but her own. Compare that with Shiki, who tirelessly plugs the other Prism girls whenever she can. Tsunderia is far better off without that baggage around their necks

>>9403159
the biggest problem faced with by corpos is that they actually need something that stands out beyond the personalities of their talents
you cant just fund a model and find some random girl on the internet and tell them to go wild on gaming, the company itself needs a solid and researched plan to capture an audience, even if its just music, which still has room to do fresh things with the virtual medium like VR bands

if your company cant provide more than an indie who isnt shackled by the same rules, you're worthless

>>9408345
which is why Hololive has adopted the MCU class plan of introducing lore....
I'm not saying it's good, but, it's happening.

>>9408452
thats an EN branch thing because western audiences definitely have a bit of an obsession with lore and insane details and whatever stupid shit. there's whole channels just for explaining stupid lore for some franchises that have more thought put into them than the people who wrote the lore even care for
i am intrigued to see what omega's role is besides being a producer is, since they also seem to be a manager? i dont know why you'd have to hype someone up like that

>>9408111
Would it be funnier if Kana fails to get into vshojo after dumping her youtube audience for it or would it be funnier if she actually somehow got in to another group she'd ignore?

>>9408345
That basically describes all of these small corpos. None of them are doing anything different or unique, they're all just groups of streamers with no differentiation from the norm. You basically just watch them for those one or two girls you like while you pray that they get poached by holo/niji.

>>9408111
>>9408730
What the hell has been going on with Kana? I keep hearing how shit's been bad as of late but haven't seen any actual explanation.

>>9408846
>What the hell has been going on with Kana? I keep hearing how shit's been bad as of late but haven't seen any actual explanation.
Corpo bootlickers. Ignore them. They pull the same shit with Rosemi too.

>>9408846
Long story short: She left youtube, without telling people on youtube she was leaving including paying members, to stream on twitch. Only Kana herself really knows "why", but her publically stated reason of "because twitch is nicer" seems illogical. The best theory is she wants to get into vshojo for easy numbers and money because she's a lazy faggot.
So she's dropped her lightning in a bottle youtube audience for maybe something on Twitch who knows.

>>9408730
The first one, by far. Then she'd have the smaller audience she's always claimed to want, and we'd get to watch her seethe and self-destruct even more!

>>9408846
Unironically unstable, this is an archive of her last youtube stream,
https://files.catbox.moe/wggadb.mp4

>>9403159
Wactor, they are slowing dominating any niche vtuber market.

>>9403530
What the fuck is a yellow company?

>>9410601
Everyone in Tsunderia is Asian. The only one that hasn't been confirmed is Orla

>>9403159
Prism looks like it'll do well. They have very talented chuubas

>>9403159
The people who think that the new groups have no chance don't know their history. Vtubing is still very much a developing market where fortunes can change drastically on a year-to-year basis, and Hololive itself proves that. If you had told everyone in January 2018 that Sora's company would be the #1 company in the world 3 years later, half of the replies in /jp/ would be calling you a delusional retard and the other half would be asking you who Sora is.

What all of the smaller agencies need to blow up are three things:
>Exposure through content that goes spontaneously viral, which itself requires
>At least one exceptional talent whose content is good enough to translate exposure to fans, which is predicated on
>Having tenacity. The reality of the Internet is that there's more content than eyes and time, which means tons of brilliant people unfortunately fall through the cracks and remain invisible. While working hard in obscurity does not guarantee that you will be successful, it's a prerequisite for you to have the possibility to become successful. Someone who gets discouraged by numbers is someone who will never accomplish anything.

>>9409079
>The only reason why someone would move to Twitch is because they want to join a company that streams on there
Shut up faggot, there are numerous benefits to streaming on Twitch, but I'm not typing out an essay for you're retarded bait

>>9411185
Kana has never been entirely honest with her audience. Considering her stated reason for moving is because YouTube chat is full of assholes that make fun of her and Twitch chat is nicer despite both chats being made up of mostly the same people, her trying to court VShojo makes way more sense.

>>9411185
I'm sorry your oshi is a whore, retard. She should tell her youtube faggots no matter what the reason is, though. As fun as it is to laugh at the retards who will give her money on a platform she doesn't use, it would probably be a good idea to not leave them hanging for as many months as it takes for them to get a clue.

>>9408684
Hololive Alternative will also add lore even if it's technically "non-canon." For example, the teaser trailer implies that it will show the Underworld Academy mentioned in some Holos' introductory bios.

>>9409932
Holy shit I did not realize she was that bad. She seems to be slowly developing actual schizophrenia

Start up or not, vtuber corpos need talent who can attract fans outside vtuber/weeb market to grow big. Just relying on existing market isn't sustainable in long run. Sadly i don't see that happen in EN market except for the Niji, Holo & Vshoujo. B-but we aren't Niji, Holo or Vshoujo, that's just fucking excuse, i've seen other corpos/group like Maha5, VSPO, ReAct can gain new fans from new market.

>>9412929
do you even watch small company chuubas anon? all of them are doing more things than holo ever has

>>9413076
NTA, but things like what? The only small corpo girl I know that is doing anything against the grain is Luto, and I guess Lumi if you want to count playing grand strategy because nobody else is doing it.

>>9412929
prism uses tiktok

>literal nobodies getting big
>can a slightly better organized group of literal nobodies get big?

It would be very interesting to me if they couldn't. I kind of want to study the economy around vtubers.

>>9410680
Pina is oozing talent and she's the least popular of her gen if we just go by numbers.

What would even be unique enough to grab a long-lasting audience?

>>9403159
Who's that one in the orange outfit? she looks like a cute emo girl waifu

>>9415688
Shiki Miyoshino, and she's tomboy, not emo

>>9415883
It is incredible that she is the most subbed girl in PRISM right now (even outstripping Iku)

What makes her so great? Is it her singing?

>>9417353
Won the design lottery, put in a lot of legwork promoting herself pre-debut, had a great debut stream, is a great singer, admitted to drinking her own piss, and so on. Lots of things going right all at once.

>>9415570
I'm honestly not sure what's going to keep an audience when social distancing and lockdowns are over.

>>9417597
Wait a minute what was that last part?

>>9418997
I'm not sure why you'd assume the vtube audience would leave their house even if they were allowed to.

>>9403159
I think Shiki should form a company with the rest of the gang.

>>9419191
https://youtu.be/lrnUxBSzB8s

>>9419343
I think the only one who doesn't go to reddit in that group is Shiki

>>9410872
This is pretty much it. .LIVE, Entum, upd8 - all had their day in the sun, and the trend keeps evolving. Hololive's probably got enough critical mass now to be remembered even if they suddenly collapsed, but all you need is another bottled lightning moment.

>>9403159
They'll never succeed because they're all boring and talentless compared to HoloEN, they're just trying to cope with joining a company that tries to act like Hololive but fails in every single way.

>>9410601
pee

>>9403600
Luto is a cute gremlin but she really has no place in a bigger group. She'd get wrangled hard.

>>9415883
Ahh ok. Regardless she looks really cute
>I want to manhandle that small body of hers

>>9403159
It's like saying "is there a place for idol company's that aren't akb" but there is. There's a huge underground idol culture in Japan. It's rough and not glamorous but it's there.
Ultimately big companies and big trendsetters like hololive can create plenty of sub cultures which are popular and lucrative as well.
Just because gura has 20k people watching her, doesn't mean if you get a stream with 100 people you haven't made some measure of success.
Also vshojo is entirely based on the success of hololive. So it's clearly possible.

>>9413224
>No response to this post
And this is why these startup girls will never go anywhere.

>>9412929
The VTuber industry and its current audience size is a mere fraction of the overall weeb population. There still plenty of room to grow just from the potential weeb audience alone. But yeah, maybe when we get closer to 50+% of the weebs watching VTubers, it'd be best to attract the outsiders.

>>9424625
Vshojo took a bunch of established indie streamers and grouped them under one banner. They didn't exactly start from scratch.

All they really need is a bit of moment off of a viral moment and they're good to go. It helps having talent and both Prism and Phase connect have some decent hitters.

>>9403159
The first startup that unabashedly has booba, Gfe, loli and unique but simple designs, deep sexy voices and high quality rigging will win

>>9425404
Technically Prism fits all of these bills except deep sexy voices

>>9425439
Rita Kamishiro has a deep sexy voice though.
https://streamable.com/bdtqu2

>>9425210
>it'd be best to attract the outsiders.
Fuck no. If that means attracting trolls, vtweeters, sjws, political boomers then no thank you. Vtubers are built on a good cultivated community that makes effort to assimilate its viewers to the culture, not on a trash one full of retarded normies and children who are rude and disrespectful to the streamer. Vtubing has always been self-gatekeeping especially thanks to the fact that the face of Vtubing is Hololive, and that they have very high standards. There should be a restriction on the amount of outsiders who should be exposed to vtubers, all of them need to be forced to assimilate.

>>9417597
These things plus she is well connected in the vtuber community. Really strong pickup for prism

>>9425491
She has a deep voice but she doesn't have the kind that makes anons scream SEEEEEXXXX like Kronii.

>>9404069
Cyberlive has some interesting girls doing interesting things, though I wonder if they were specifically scouted for it.

>>9425589
They held auditions so no?

>>9425439
https://youtu.be/mg0eT-G7vn0?t=3308

>>9425664
https://youtu.be/Ct6zD6IYhVQ?t=2654
British Rita is sexy too

>>9408345
>they actually need something that stands out beyond the personalities of their talents
>if your company cant provide more than an indie who isnt shackled by the same rules, you're worthless

*laughs in Owl*

>>9425725
Based. Rita’s voice is like honey and she’d trounce kronii if she didn’t get embarrassed about it and did a SEEEEEXXX voice all the time. Also she isn’t tone deaf.

For a lot of these girls I think they're better off staying where they are. Anons here love Lumi but if she ever grew in popularity and got poached she might end up easing up on the grand strat games as they become a debuff once you reach a certain size. Same goes for Tenma and how much she plays rougelikes, although that may have changed since I don't keep up with her religiously. Luto would have to shape up for certain, back when I lurked the Prism thread I;d see anons pointing out that she was getting legit mad at her chat since they were being antagonistic towards her. That sort of shit would have to go so the gremlin personality would have to be dialed back. Additionally I think she needs to work on her ability in collabs outside of Prism, she might've gotten better at this but I still remember the collab with Kawaii Pro where she wasn't at her best. Admittedly what Pina does might be able to translate well to a bigger group, but she's the smallest of her gen.

>>9425404
You just described basically every major startup. Tsunderia, Prism, Phase, Kawaii, and Cyberlive have all or most of those already.

Booba - Yuuna/Miori, Yura, Lia/Michiru, Nene, Lumi
GFE - Yuuna, Yura/Iku, [no Phase], Nene/Reina, Seina
Loli - Purin/Meru, Luto, Tenma, Charlotte, Hylo/Yuri
Unique but simple design - Urara/Kallin/Meru, Aoi/Meno/Nia/Pina, Pippa/Tenma/Uruka/Lia, all of Kawaii and Cyberlive
Deep voices - Urara/Orla/Kallin, Rita, [no Phase], Isla, [no Cyberlive]
They all have decent rigging, although Tsunderia and Prism are noticeably better than the rest

>>9426311
>Deep voices
>[no Phase]
Uruka...

>>9426426
ah fuck, missed that one. In my defense, her voice isn't smooth and mommyish like the others on that list

>>9403159
You're both a faggot and a certified retard. The likely answer is that Hololive and Niji will remain on top, but nobody can actually predict the future. That's not to say there isn't hope, but you're focusing too much on the external.

The issue isn't that they're underdogs. The problem that Hololive set the shit standard that you don't have to be entertaining to succeed if you have good branding. So now instead of trying to be entertaining, everyone's just trying to be hololive. What winds up happening is that vtubers gimp themselves by becoming cheap bootlegs competing with the more premium products.

Hypothetically speaking, holo and Niji have bottlenecks in the form of generations. All an agency needs to do is assemble an all star cast that's too large to completely poach and there's no way they'll be able to fail. This requires genuinely entertaining and skilled vtubers...which is something there's a dearth of. Western pop culture produces women just as vapid and shallow, while aspiring male entertainers (at least the ones who d be worth watching) have no reason to throw themselves before the commies and risk becoming canceled, persona non grata, or possibly even debanked for the rest of their lives. The only people who can vtube safely in the current western cultural climate are just imitations of better streamers who do the same content but better, while subculture streamers run the risk of being brigaded by the alphabet community or tradfags (like that ethot who tried to take down gura) the moment they go viral simply for being outside the normative standard for hobbies and interests.

Hololive and Niji relied heavily on their preexisting success in Japan, a culture that's far more permissive towards artistic expression. This allows them to take chances with controversial streamers, content and opinions that domestic companies can't. The west is more like China in the sense that the domestic market is just too ideologically constrained to compete with outside investment. Chubas from the west will succeed working for foreign companies, but domestic companies will likely always be on top for that reason. Meritocracy always finds a way, and I just don't see how western agencies can compete.

Weebs ultimately want Japanese entertainment which follows problematic Japanese that includes glorifying things like male dominance over women and lusting after young girls. So long as western entertainment isn't free to appeal to men in an unfettered and unapologetic way, in a style reminiscent of Japanese media, there's no reason for any vtubing fan to watch anything other than big brand chubas because an ethot is an ethot is an ethot and they're all so publically homogenous in terms of temperament, interests, ideology and culture most of them might as well not even exist.

tldr Either keep clawing over one another for the chance to jump ship and join a big brand, or take the risk of getting Susan'd by catering to niches and subjects that fall outside of GFE or frat culture. But do keep in mind that nobody likes phonies or posers, so the prerequisite will always be getting passionate, entertaining people who are genuinely into their niche rather than trying to repurpose basic bitch ethots into something they're not.

>>9426584
>The problem that Hololive set the shit standard that you don't have to be entertaining to succeed if you have good branding
That's not something HoloLive did or can do, that's something people watching vtubers did.

>>9417597
Ngl, her voice is also pretty characteristic

>>9426584
based take

>>9425070
Surprised nobody replied with tired buzzwords like chemistry, etc.

Heavenrend is my favorite new company

>>9403159
They can be perfectly sufficent without getting to holo/niji levels. The real question is trying to stand out from those groups by offering something different and then getting enough word-of-mouth publicity to attract an audience.

This can be difficult because as much as clippers only seem to occasionaly use indie or small groups as a source of material. There's rarely a sustained effort to raise awareness of them to a wider audience.

Whatever the way these starups do, the key is be patient and to play the long game, it takes 2years for Niji and 3 for holo to really grow their brand. There's no such things as instant success

>>9403159
>do you think any of the current small startup agencies like Tsunderia, Prism, Phase Connect, Kawaii, Cyberlive, etc. have a chance of making it to hololive/nijisanji levels of success?
All of them are satisfied with simply siphoning their audience, so scraps are all they're going to get.

>>9426311
What's your standard for good design? Do you hold corporate designs to the same standards as indies?

As far as I see it an indie design only has to look good for a stream. A corpo design has to not only look good on stream but also has able to sell merchandise. Many of these companies create designs that cant sell merchandise worth a shit.

Hololive can no longer deliver that "watching a small idol grow from nothing and find success" feeling Sora initially had. Small company chuubas are girls I can genuinely root for.

>>9431194
What does merchandisable design entail?

>>9431594
Easily identifiable and recognisable. You can have a technically competent and professional looking design which fails to stand out significantly from competitors.
I mean, why would someone buy merch of something visually interchangable with anything they already have?

>>9413617
Pina got an avatar debuff, she's supposed to be 20 but looks more like a 10 yr old

>>9431594
That requires market research and knowing what demographic you're going for beforehand. Who's their target audience?

>>9403159
Is there no hope for underdogs anymore?
Whoever does 3D first thing is their 3D has to be on par or better than Nijisanji or VShojo/Snuffys

>>9403159
>Is there no hope for underdogs anymore?
Whoever does 3D first thing is their 3D has to be on par or better than Nijisanji or VShojo/Snuffys

>>9422130
Were you not aware of her debut intro on Reddit?

>>9403370
I agree with this. The opportunity for startups is catching a niche that HL doesn't cover. They can be cruder like vshojo or strike a balance in between idol and gremlin. They can leverage closer interaction with audience since their chats aren't going a mile a minute. They can mix up 3D facecam and 2DLive avatar. They can afford to take more risks in general.

There are some benefits to being western based, such as easier copyright permissions. That allows them access to a wider library.

>>9403530
kek

>>9409454
Kana wants a small audience? Is she another Mocca in the making?

>>9426584
>Weebs ultimately want Japanese entertainment which follows problematic Japanese that includes glorifying things like male dominance over women and lusting after young girls.
uhhh yikes?

>>9426584
>problematic
Kill yourself.

>>9433948
In that she's schizo and a compulsive liar? Yes.
In that she has a penis? No, although she does have a boyfriend which is even worse

>>9435769
It's kinda jarring how vicious people got towards Kana. She was loved by pretty much everyone.
Twitch is a way better platform anyways so I don't understand what is the big deal.

>>9435987
/vt/ anons turning on a chuuba over the tiniest slight and then exaggerating the hell out of it is a trend at this point

>>9435987
>>9436046
I forget what thread it was from, but I remember the topic was about mitigating expectations, specifically chuubas in relationships and how it's not a big deal if they're upfront and honest about it. Where they run into problems is when they act like they don't, or their content is clearly designed to attract lonely guys into parasocial relationships.
I don't know if Kana has a boyfriend or not, but she's lied to her audience so many times about shit that doesn't even matter that it's impossible to excuse all of it. She's alienated her audience by flipping from a cute and funny loli to this negative bitch that shits on anyone and anything for the most arbitrary reasons and then tries to justify it afterwards and hope she's forgiven because she's an uwu cute fox girl.

tl;dr Kana lies then pretends she doesn't and blames other people and they're tired of forgiving her

>>9403159
It's like asking if some new league can start up and challenge the NFL, NBA, MLB ect. or whatever the Euro equivalent is for Soccer. Realistically, no, because the talents will follow the money and these small companies will just be developmental organizations. The only chance is someone with actual money comes into the market and pays salaries and spends a ton on promotion, organizations, and infrastructure. Imagine Amazon or Google or whatever jumps in with an offer of $50,000 yearly salary regardless of your success, free marketing, a more extensive permissions list, actual technical and administrative support. It would probably be a success. Would anyone actually do this? Very unlikely as they would lose a bunch of money on it even if the vtubers were successful.

>>9436945
Wasn't Sony making a VTuber project? I vaguely remember reading something like that a while ago

>>9437105
They are but it seems to be a Japanese thing. We'll see how that goes. They're also one of Nijisanji's backers so it could be sort of weird.

>>9403159
maha5 in indonesia

>>9403159
Here's my rrat
>Cover intentionally hired 3 former small agency chuubas for EN2
>People now see small English groups as feeders
>Now most people applying to them will only be interested in building a portfolio to jump ship later
>People won't care about them because they'll think Cover will bring the good ones to EN sooner or later anyway

>>9436729
Not-kana fan here, what things did she lie about? Got a list for us?

>>9437545
Good. The goal of every business venture should be an absolute, unquestionable monopoly.

>>9437553
The big one is blaming Nacho ghosting her on favoritism towards Gura, when the fact is Nacho interacts with and makes fanart for all her other daughters too. This was a pretty obvious attempt to gain sympathy by being overshadowed by the shark when there was no need to bring her up at all, especially when Kana's viewership is exponentially larger than Luto and Naname. Also airing that bit of laundry in public was really unprofessional.
Then there was the Limbo stream. She ragequit the game when it crashed at the credits, yelled at her chat that they were awful and so was the game, continued calling her fans assholes in her Discord, and then privated the VOD. Her chat was fine, she just wasn't enjoying the game, blaming it for her being bad at the puzzles and platforming. She did something similar in her last YouTube stream, where she used the wrong word while she was talking, got corrected, and then abruptly ragequit the stream 9 minutes in. She again bitched about her audience in her Discord and hasn't streamed on YouTube since. She's said she's going to stream on Twitch exclusively but hasn't notified her members on YouTube which is lazy at best, sleazy at worst.
She also bitches about her YouTube audience, and YouTube as a platform, in every Twitch stream despite the audience being mostly made up of the same people. She claims that her discoverability will be greater on Twitch despite being a darling of the Youtube algorithm, but in the same breath claims that she doesn't want to grow larger. She talks about wanting management and possibly joining VShojo, but has previously said that she loves the freedom of being independent and not having the pressure to perform for an agency. In short, none of her justifications for her impulsive decisions are consistent

>>9424333
LOL, what a Holofag cocksucker.

Hololive = waving a lightstick in a stadium of 30,000 and buying merch from anonymous staff after the show, never meet in person unless you buy a $500 VIP ticket
Nijisanji = waving a lightstick in a concert hall of 2,000 and maybe get a photo op after with the merch
Startups = moshing in a shoebox live house of 100 or less and chat with the group after the show while you buy handmade merch
Indies = stop and watch a street busker every week and toss them a few bucks, maybe have longer chats between sets or buy them street food

>>9431413
Based. This is why I mostly dropped holos. Chat is way too fast (so why type in chat?), comments are rarely read, responded to, or liked (so why comment?), supers are relegated to long boring separate streams if they get read at all (so why supa?). No one will remember your name or notice if you drop. I can’t really go back to holos after experiencing how things are for indie and small corpo chuubas. If I do it’s in a completely detached way where I just consume the content and then leave.

>>9440331
I genuinely can't see the appeal of being a Hololive fan anymore. The experience is worlds apart.

>>9437271
Prism boss also invests money in Niji.

>>9441368
Smart move

>>9441368
They should be collabing with 2434 rather than with nobodies like Phase Connect

>>9442729
Shiki might have have enough pull for this but Nijisanji gets very little from collabing with much smaller chuubas at this point.

>>9443166
How about collabing for fun?

>>9441038
Hololive is only for normalfags who aren't actually interested in digging deeper for other vtubers and for gachikoi who are already too deeply involved with their oshi. Others do watch holos so as to have something to discuss with other people but their oshi will be from a smaller corp or an indie.

>>9443707
Fun? ON COMPANY EXPENSES?

>>9443707
I wouldn’t count on it but I’d like to see it

Why isn't there a western singing branch like kamitsubaki or riot?
I mean I know they wouldn't have the licensing or financial backings those groups have, but surely there's enough EN cover singers into vtubing they'd be down to start an ENVsinger group and maybe just do english vocaloid covers or other easily licensed songs.

>>9403159
I've given Tsunderia, Prism and PC a chance.
>Tsunderia
Miori is a good singer but she's an annoying slut. Unironically worse than vshojo.
As a whole the group is pretty mediocre, filled with menhera shit, constant hiatuses, bad streamers, bad singers, and they have an unhealthy obsession with hand/foot streams.
>PRISM
probably the best group of the startups, but management makes a lot of questionable decisions and is actively fucking over the older girls by shitting out new gens constantly without letting the older gens catch up.
>PC
is shit. pippa is carried by being a /pol/tard.
the /jp/ branch is terrible compared to typical /jp/ startups/indies.
Tenma and Uruka are the only ones I care about looking into periodically. Uruka has potential imo, she's just inexperienced. Tenma is okay, but she's abrasive and is too serious, probably on account of being ESL, she's unwilling to play along with jokes even if they're clearly just in good fun.
>CyberLive
all i know is $500 discord prostitution.

I keep a few of the girls subbed and on watch (Shiki, Nia, Kallin, Char) but 99% of the time I'd rather just watch an EN indie or Selen. Or just go back to the Japanese streamers.

>>9444450
>Miori is a good singer but she's an annoying slut. Unironically worse than vshojo.
Not this shit again

>>9444494
Maybe if she stopped talking about fucking every single person who chats her or collabs with her people would stop bringing it up.

>>9413224
CyberLive girls will have sex with you if you donate enough.

>>9444450
Tsunderia's menhera hiatus arc is over, anon. Purin and Meru are back and better than ever. No joke, their most recent streams are some of their best. Even Char is getting back into streaming again with her new model. Give the girls another chance now that things are stable for everyone and they might surprise you.
Agreed about Mio though. It can be an entertaining schtick if she's playing off someone like Yuuna or Meru, but it can also get old really quick

>>9444788
Meru is just a doomer menhera and its annoying.
I'll give purin another chance sometime.

The new gen was also an unfortunate flop. Hanabi is boring, and I will never ever watch Orla or anything with her in it.

>>9441038
>>9440331
I don't watch Hololive anymore because honestly even as streamers that don't look at chat they're just boring as a whole. Literally running on brand alone. I'll still watch some of the Nijisanji JP streamers and Selen though because even if they're not giving you personal interaction they can ride the chat wave well enough and keep you entertained regardless.
I prefer my indie JPs though because they help correct my shitty japanese while we chat.

>>9444849
Meru has been working hard on her menhera and it's finally paying off. Her 3 streams last week are a good example. Especially the creepypasta reading ASMR. You should give that one a try to see her trying something new and having fun with it from start to finish.

>>9444849
Meru's really improved the past few months, but I understand why you got turned off from her when things were really bad for her. I only hope you'll catch a recent clip of her and reconsider. I gotta shill my oshi, you understand.
Orla is surprisingly engaging. I'll never understand why that model is what she wanted, but she apparently likes it. I'd really recommend at least having her on in the background. Hanabi...I hope she acclimates soon because her voice has a ton of potential. Her karaoke streams are one of a kind

>>9432910
She said herself she doesn't know anything about Reddit and she doesn't really go there

>having a chance of making it to hololive/nijisanji levels of success

If any of these STARTUP companies make it to the level of a MAINSTREAM company that's been operating for 4 years the bubble will have truly popped. They've grown so massive in size and production that brand alone carries them and the talents on the proverbial "top". For the underdogs with barely 3 gens and rookie talents/management to reach those levels would require the ultimate recession from these 2 groups and an opposite surge to startups and indies over months/years possibly.

If not, you can expect them to maintain their place has mid tier or complete nobodies swimming the sea with other opportunists as they become increasingly late to the game with each month.

>>9432910
Plenty of vtuber post their streams on Reddit without using it for anything else

>>9444849
Meru and Purin are the stars of Tsunderia and both are doing better than ever.
I would say their menhera moments are what made them so likeable and relatable in the first place.

Those who get fixated on small parts are the same people who only watch clips and assume that's their whole personality and all they have to offer when that's far from the truth.
Some insight on Meru is upon her return she told us during her first few months with Tsunderia she was not only dealing with an immune system illness but knowing her own genmate was to leave for a "better opportunity" but still surpassing her without trying made her doubt herself, her abilities and her commitment to Tsunderia. It doesn't seem like Ria left on great terms either but there's no hard evidence to back up the hunch. With Kana the face of Tsunderia, leaving to go indie and Ria leaving to join NijiEN in the first few months after debuting, I don't blame her for feeling at least a somewhat doomed. She's said that this time was her biggest regret to not only herself but everyone around her and she's learning to forgive herself and the embarassment for the way she was. That's why ill defend her now because it takes a human to know a human and everyone has regrets. It takes a lot to admit fault and actively try to improve and that's more than most livers can do. Kana...

In reality, Meru is an innocent lovable girl with a big dream that puts her all into the things she commits to. It's clear she put Tsunderia on a pedestal and when that illusion started falling she fell with it to her own detriment but to say she's just a menhera doomer would be a huge disservice to her character and story as a whole.

>>9444849
Meru and Purin are the stars of Tsunderia and both are doing better than ever.
I would say their menhera moments are what made them so likeable and relatable in the first place.

Those who get fixated on chapters are the same people who only watch clips and assume that's their whole personality and all they have to offer when that's far from the truth.
Some insight on Meru is upon her return she said during her first months with Tsunderia she was not only dealing with an physical illness but knowing her own genmate was to leave for a "better opportunity" but effortlessly surpassing her made her doubt herself and her commitment to Tsunderia. With Kana leaving to go indie and Ria leaving to join NijiEN and Tsunderia seeming to do nothing, I don't blame her for feeling at least a somewhat doomed. She's said that this time was her biggest regret to not only herself but everyone around her and she's learning to forgive herself and accept the embarassment.

In reality, Meru is an innocent lovable girl with a big dream that puts her all into the things she commits to. It's clear she put Tsunderia on a pedestal and when that illusion started falling she fell with it to her own detriment but to say she's just a menhera doomer would be a huge disservice to her character and story as a whole.

>>9450648
>>9451133
I mean its cool you're a saviorfag and all.
But I'm watching vtubers to be entertained, not hear them sperg about their issues for 2 months which is what I got when I watched her up until her 2.0 where she showed the worst debut stream I've ever seen.
Some personality and emotion is fine, but there needs to be some professionalism to it, and she (and a lot of the tsunderia girls) have none of it.

Like Purin doing discord erp, that's cool and all, but that's what shitty indies do, not people in a corp.

>>9451313
Based

>>9403159
Prism and Phase really have a good chance of rising up. I really like who they have.

>>9451313
Become a Holofag
It's that easy to find soulless corpos

>>9403159
No they don't and that doesn't matter, because it's part of an ecosystem.

>>9451313
What do you think about Pippa then? If you hold proffessionalism to such a high regard then you wouldn't dare touch the likes of Phase

>>9453306
Yeah Pippa is garbage.
Tenma and Uruka are fine just pretty low quality.

>>9443707
Some corp chuuba told me that even they collab for fun, they are still professional (i'm watching you vshoujo). Because they ARE friend, they want to grow together & give something to your collab partner even if you smaller numberwise (this also apply to good indies). Honestly it's kinda funny considering they are in one of most lax vtuber management & do sudden collab/visit each other stream a lot.

>>9453306
Pandered to fucking kiwifarms of all places. Once people get bored of her she is going to drop like a rock and go full menhera.

>>9444234
Wait till early 2022 anon. They are still in prep period but one of their founder and member (at the same time) is quite big & trustworthy

>>9453306
Not him but in what sense are they unprofessional? Genuinely curious.

>>9456603
not him but most their unprofessionalism is just pippa, who is a /here/ and kiwifarms panderer.
even outside the incel-pandering she's just spends every stream just ranting and whining about stupid shit.

literal schizo. also she's fucking her roommate.

>>9456786
>pandering to fucking kiwifarms
Absolutely disgusting. Is she the only bad one? I expected worse going by that post.

>>9457413
only unprofessional one of that level.
Tenma is also somewhat unprofessional, but hers comes off more as a grumpy granny rather than just straight up retarded. I can call Tenma's unprofessionalism a charm point. Pippa's is destructive.,

I'm mostly saddened because every small agency general on this board is fucking insufferable

>>9426584
Not reading all that but you sound like a retard.

>>9459400
saviorfagging is unbearable

>>9452485
Just need more exposure

I’m a girl who frequently posts on /trash/. I will audition for a small startup and get in and you’ll never know who I am

>>9462749
Nice self-diss 2view-chan.

>>9462749
>/trash/ girl
Fitting.

>>9442729
PC is on track to pass Prism fairly quickly

>>9462913
I’m going to abandon tsunderia for hololive soon

>>9463045
Who is PC's heavy hitter? If it's Pippa then I worry for the company.

>>9463280
Pippa's a close second, but Uruka has that title.
It really depends how their gen 2 goes, they should have more talent to select from because they've established a name for themselves than they did for gen 1.

>>9408345
The biggest hurdle for any streamer to actually gain viewers and therefore generate revenue is exposure. With corporate backing and an extensive network of established streamers, they have an enormous advantage over any independent streamers. Add to that the monetization of merchandise etc. that is very hard to set up as an independent no matter how successful you are, and their potential to generate revenue is simply a lot higher.

One positive thing for smaller streamers is that the parasocial relationship plays a big role for many viewers. This naturally counteracts the for digital businesses very common tendency for a monopoly of one product (streamer) to form. As long as people are lonely, streamers will have people paying them money.

>>9426584
based

All but one of the listed angencies aren’t even a year old yet, give it time.

Prism is working on merchandising, and lots of it.

>>9464096
Merchandise is good for generating revenue from an existing fanbase, but it won't do anything to grow it unless you have the marketing budget of Hasbro or Mattel. Strange that Prism would do something like that when memberships, which do exactly the same thing, were regarded as detrimental to growth...

>>9464261
6/9 talents still don't have memberships.

>>9464261
That's just a dumb rrat that some people on /ppg/ push to justify them not opening memberships, despite the CEO revealing on twitter that the company is not profitable. They fucked up their memberships anyways by having tiered perks, which they had to fix later.
Prism's relative success right now is certainly not due to the competence of its staff.

>>9464096
Cyberlive's the only agency that put out merchandise for 1 month old Lumi that consists of mousepads, pins, tshirts and hoodies. Never seen any of the other agencies do that before so fast.

>>9464780
Technically, VShojo, but Cyberlive has been very aggressive with the monetization of their talents

>>9464917
It's kinda baffling that other agencies dont do it. Even just selling a tshirt with a design made by one of their artists would sell loads and would easily make them a ton of revenue.

>>9464917
Doesn't cyberlive literally let you have discord dates with the girls if you pay enough? That just rubbed me the wrong way.

>>9465027
Would it? There's a sizable investment needed at the start to get stocked, unless you ship them to order which makes it more expensive per item manufactured. Then there's the art cost which includes a markup because you're also paying for merchandising rights. And there are no guarantees that you'll even sell very many, so you'll just be sitting on boxes of shirts that didn't sell. Realistically, how many of the 100 dedicated viewers that most startup chuubas consistently get would spend $20 for a shirt of them?

>>9465243
Just a rrat honestly.

>>9465243
A few of them had incentives like that on debut which they quickly took down after backlash. They claimed it was because people were donating pre-debut and they wanted to give something back to early donors, and that it was only going to be for the debut stream

>>9465243
rrat?

>>9403159
>PRISM
Okay talent, but not much else. Has potential.
>Phase Connect
Exclusively hires menheras and autists. That seems to have worked for Hololive, so it could work.
>Kawaii
Carried by a decent singer and coomerbait. They desperately need more members/gens, otherwise they're dead in the water like VOMS. They're one graduation away from failing.
>Tsunderia
The vtubers are nice, but not very interesting. Imagine an entire agency full of ksons.
>Cyberlive
lol no

>>9465243
>>9465514
hylo's said very publicly that she felt bad about people donating literally thousands pre-debut and wanted to give back. it honestly seems like a bad management decision, since all of the girls are actually very sweet and intelligent

>>9403159
Prism Project and Phase Connect will do well. Shiki, Luto, and Pippa will carry them. The other companies have no chance.

>>9466372
>Pippa
Do you know her? She’s a walking yab

>>9466412
NTA but give me the full QRD

>>9466444
I like Pippa but for an agency and someone to be popular with a wide audience she is a mess. I wouldn't be surprised if phase connect did receive wide traction that they graduate her. She openly talks about Alex Jones, loving guns, is a conspiracytard as well as a /here/tuber, she also is dating her roommate

>>9466444
Constantly tweets yabe shit, in full view of other vtubers.
Also comes up with unorthodox stream context, pic related. She criticized vtuber auditions then listed a hypothetical shitty HoloEN gen that included momokun, venti, and abigail shapiro.
She thinks abigail would get the most goslings.

>>9466646
Did a list for a hypothetical HolostarsEN gen as well.
>This gen needs a token furry -> Ken ashkorp
>Koefficient only joined so he could flirt with (You)r oshi
>Shadman will apply and get accepted without telling Cover of his previous work

>>9466741
within the past ten minutes alone she's retweeted stuff mentioning templeOS
Pippa is fun but not someone for a big audience and is a walking pr nightmare

>>9466646
*content

>>9466646
And shit like this is why she's inclining.

>>9403159
Top tier talent from each agency
Prism:
Shiki, Yura, Rita
Three extremely talented girls with wonderful singing abilities and fun stream ideas that are only hampered by their IRL money issues before they can go full time.

Phase connect:
None so far, PIppa knows she'll never be mainstream but has creative streams, Uruka is god awful at streaming outside of her singing streams and Tenma is focused on niche indie games and isnt concerned about Numbers. Lia is also trying to find her footing too.

Tsunderia:
With how close they all are, it's hard to think of one of them that stands out above the rest because they rely on each other so much like a family.

Kawaii:
Isla Coleman is extremely talented as a singer and has some of the best spontaneous stream ideas ever. Definitely a gem.
Nene is extremely pure and knows how to do the GFE with her audience, incredibly talented too.

Each of these girls are some of the best for english vtubers right now and deserve every single bit of success to come their way.

Cyberlive:
Lumi no question, she's so intelligent and unique that she's current one of the shining diamonds for english vtubers. Hylo has immense potential but is stopped by her ADHD and lack of streaming experience though.

>>9466646
>>9466741
How the hell did someone like this even get hired? I also remember she had to be unmodded from the other Phase girls' chats pre-debut.

>>9466444

>>9467137
Pippa is a successful twitch vtuber is a long resume, that's why she was hired she has more streaming experience than everyone else at phase.

>>9466412
Yes that's why we love her.

>>9464261
Only mentioned merchandising because someone else or people here won’t shut up about merchandise.

Don’t know if people know how merchandising works but it’s also a big financial risk. To be more profitable you have to buy in bulk. So go figure why this is also risky business and why the big guys can afford to do it and small ones have to think about it. The reason why PRISMs China plastic stands are limited is because they probably only ordered 50 or 100 of them.

>>9419343
Are they all trans?

>>9467844
yes.

>>9419343
shiki was posy higanbana though, a biological female

>>9466444

I like Pippa, she is amazing and smart.

I like Shiki, she is amazing and smart.

>>9468171
>a vtuber character is biological female
no point arguing with you without being a doxxfag

Hololive's success was built on the back of random moments going viral and Coco, not really something you can replicate.
Nijisanji is possible if you have deep pockets, niji's entire thing is throw as many people out there as possible, they also tend to hire from outside the streamer sphere unlike Cover, sometimes they strike gold like one of the JP guys Leos.

The smaller companies need to carve out their own niche, whatever it might, trying to follow the Holo formula is a losing battle, you're just chasing scraps from diminishing returns and if Holo EN2 has proved one thing, is that the crowd of fans is getting pretty think, they're cannibalizing each other's viewerships pretty badly.

Phase Connect took an interestingf approach, they have an EN group and a JP group, I'm curious if they'll do that for wave 2, considering the JP group is heavily underperforming compared to the EN ones.

>>9444788
>Even Char is getting back into streaming again with her new model.
Fucking when? She showed off her new model and fucked off again.

>>9469609
Relax, anon. She streams tomorrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdXyjCXXt2Y

>>9469609
She has a chat stream scheduled. Seems like she's easing back into streaming.

>>9469609
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdXyjCXXt2Y

>>9453306
>What do you think about Pippa then?
She worries me, I love Uruka and Tenma and Pippa perpetually pandering /here/ and fucking kiwifarms gives me bad vibes, like we're one bad stream away from her going full blown /pol/ tard and sinking the company.
>>9467137
Pandering to /here/ is not stable ground to incline and never will be.
Just look at Koopa.

>>9466646
Seems to me like you just hate fun.
If no one in phase is telling her to stop, let things be.

>>9469860
>Just look at Koopa.
She was inclining steadily until she basically stopped streaming. Besides, she never obviously pandered to /here/.

>>9436945
A gaming company/developer could use vtubers promote and test out new IPs

>>9467096
If Cyberlive doesn't make a name for themselves within a year expect Lumi to be in HoloEN 3

>>9466568
>her roommate
Actually schizophrenic?

>>9476492
Not her vtuber roommate, her male roommate.

>>9408452
I don't get lore. It has zero relevance in them streaming video games. Themes are cool, but I don't care if the person is in character or not.

>>9476975
Walls of lore are retarded but Kizuna Ai is the perfect example of how to stick to kayfabe.

>>9403159
You can theoretically build an audience, but you have to build an audience no one else is catering to. A lot of people are obviously going to fail because they make themselves redundant.

>>9476975
Lore is just another way to distinguish a vtuber from cute anime girl #7652 and is an easy way to get fan artists juices flowing before you establish your streaming persona. Also if you want to do things like manga, anime, or even a gacha a shinigami or the warden of time is much easier to work with than, say, a cheerleader. They can choose to ignore or change it as they mature as steamers: Gura has never done much with hers while Mori and Kiara seem to have fun with theirs.

>>9403159
Think about it this way. What is your win condition? If it's not "we have to do everything perfect and they have to fuck up" you're in it. Unfortunately I think that's the case here.

>>9465027
You have to understand that only a small part of an audience is actually going to buy merch. When you have an audience of maybe a hundred or so people to begin with you're probably not even going to earn back enough to cover production costs, let alone turn a profit.

>>9443707
from what happened when niji collabed with holo girls for fun years ago and then they ghosted them after hololive becomes popular really put niji's management off, their managers probadly being more conservative now

>>9479829
It wouldn't surprise me if they do talk and play games in private, but they have to keep up appearances. Much like in pro wrestling, where a heel and a face can't be friendly in public

>>9479919
>they do talk and play games in private
nah, maybe if they are friend before vtuber life, otherwise, most of them are business relationship

>>9479919
Vtubers is not fucking sporstball. Intercollab was a norm in vtubers world. Holy shit, Hololive is really destroying the vtubers industry.

>>9410872
Every rising company has been open up a new niche market for them to grow big, niji with 2D live stream, holo with EOP audience and I think there's no niche left for vtuber to grown, the capacity of vtuber is the capacity of anime reach in the west, hololive already reached its , there's no weeboo left to grow outside of maybe spic audience and that's it.

>>9483084
spicholofag asssume all weebs are watching holo and theres none left kek

>>9444450
>all i know is $500 discord prostitution
what?

>>9482364
Its less Hololive and more retarded/fake vtuber fans. The kind that only brings up Kuzuha for his numbers, say intercompany collabs are rare (they're not, even for Hololive) and complain about how underrated Holostars are but think Roberu was the first stars 3D and that the latest Vsaikyou was Astel's first.
>>9484253
He's also retarded for thinking vtubers aren't niche. It still is super niche. There's even weebs who hate it.

>>9467844
Shiki isnt trans, that's a dead rrat that people keep saying

>>9485560
>There's even weebs who hate it
I'd say probably still the majority of them do. Most of my shounenfag friends think it's the same shit as something like pokimane, and if you dive into the shitholes of MAL and Facebook anime groups, you'll find a lot of users don't like them

>>9485417
Pre debut they got some donations. According to anon's ass, one of them wanted to thank them somehow and added a perk list, personalized letters and such. The management liked the idea and added 1-on-1 talks/movie watch alongs, and dragged everyone else to do the same. As stated, there was no verifiable info on the post, however one or more girls have publicly stated heavy discomfort with the idea. They received the expectable lashback and took everything down. There was a couple of threads about it when it happened but most people ignored them because
>literally who

>>9486554
so... An idea turned out to be wrong and the company respected their talent's wish thus causing no harm at all?

>>9487021
/vt/ just likes to shit on cyberlive because of it, which is ironic because their members are pulling better numbers than tsunderia and even prism on off-days. lumi and seina regularly get in the 100's now

>>9487021
>respected their talent's wish
Took it down because the people hated the personal interaction part, so its more like they got the message rather than listening to the talents, to my knowledge. The damage was dealt to the company and the girls reputation but yeah, its relatively short term given that they took it down instead of ignoring the backlash. On the other hand it apparently raised some awareness of the company, even if it was bad rep.

>>9478244
They don't have legit goals

>>9485417
See >>9465927

I must admit, I too was initially put off by Cyberlive, didn't help that they also had some other rrats and drama floating around them before debut, and members openly posting here defending themselves against accusations, which is usually not a good look.
But after they started actually streaming, I like them. Lumi is the standout talent obvs, but all the others are also at least cute and entertaining, and they're collabing with other companies without issues, and the rrats and drama have all mysteriously quieted down, which makes me think it was probably all just a schizo attack without substance.

>>9489192
Just like the best rrats, there were kernels of truth to them (Cyberlive acquiring assets and characters from a dead and morally questionable company), but the overall narrative (the two companies being staffed by the same people) turned out to be untrue. At least I think they did. Or the board just stopped caring. Comes out to the same result, anyway

>>9490039
The rrats made everyone expect a stillborn dumpster fire, but after debuting the talents all turned out to be okay to great (which is the most important thing, if they were shit people would continue to dump on them) and there hasn't been much new drama to keep the rrat fuel alive.

I love small agencies like you wouldn't believe. When will we finally get our Avengers moment where they take on Niji and Holo together.

>>9490039
>dead and morally questionable company
Got any info? Most of the time I see it brought up nobody really says what caused said impression of the ded company.

>>9490611
In the archive >>6080002

>>9485670
Shiki is trans and their roommate is their marriage partner.

>>9485670
>>9491078
has a boyfriend and they’re in a LDR. she got dox hard already. dont know what’s left to rrat about shiki.

>>9491683
it's not a boyfriend, its a wife

>>9403159
"Realistically", no. Technically, yes.
Of course they all have "a chance". None of them are irrevocably dead on arrival. It's just an incredibly tiny chance.

>>9490562
>When will we finally get our Avengers moment where they take on Niji and Holo together.
Going by that comparison, Holo ARE the Avengers. Niji is Justice League. Small agencies are weird D-list one off groups or something.
Vshojo are the family from Family Guy.

>>9479564
They could just set it up as preorders.
Yua recently did it, and she averages around 60 viewers on her streams as an indie, she just set it to preorder and it was sold out fairly quickly, and since its preorder if you don't meet the required amount you can just say so and not bother.

>>9489192
Well most the rrats were true, and after talking about it there's not much else to say.
Lumi is talked about but for the most part cyberlive is a literal who agency nobody even bothers mentioning. Even tsunderia has more clout than them even if their numbers are often smaller.

>>9492557
pretty untrue, cyber is growing pretty nicely and they have alot of support.

There is literally always at least 1 thread about them, and while everyone's favorite is usually lumi, everyone talks pretty positively about the other girls too.

>>9492786
Literally anyone can make a thread (and its probably them half the time anyways)

>>9492833
the /clg/ thread has more ips than the /ppg/ thread
at least do your reps before replying

>>9410557
How many of their chuubas have 1k+ CCV on average? Not trolling, just curious. I know Sopa is 2k+ CCV.

>>9438715
Pretty based take, I've always liked checking out small band performances and small company chuubas give me that same feeling too.

>>9492928
>a 300 post thread has more ips than a 20 post thread
k

>>9492557
Cyberlive just started, barely two months ago, while Tsunderia has been going for over a year. It's only natural that they had more time to network and amass connections and clout, without that being necessarily any indication of either of their "quality". Give it a few months more time and if they're continuing on their current trajectory (Cyberlive inclining, Tsunderia stalling), the situations could be different.

>>9492982
there's 40 posts retardchama

>>9492786
It's interesting considering Cyberlive started with rrats and drama many people seen it as a scam pseudo-agency a bit of a surprise they're doing fine.

>>9493018
Early indications are mostly bullshit since its filled with people checking out the new girls on the block then realizing they suck.

I figured I'd finally give Lumi a try and god she's fucking awful.

>>9490780
Thanks. Time to hit the archives.

I think Kawaii has the highest quality on average

>>9492105
Actually Vshojo are the family from the Cleveland Show

I like the "potential" of smaller company vtubers, because it's interesting to think about how vtubing as a medium could developed when it's freed from the shackles of the "Hololive standard approach" (the MacD of vtubing, bland samesame taste, but at least you know what you're getting)... so it's kinda disappointing to see most smaller corpos basically just following and emulating the same Hololive model, as if they're content to be nothing more than just some cheaper knockoff brand, hoping that some scraps and morsels will fall their way from the table. Without much aspirations of risktaking or innovation, it feels rather like a cargo-cult imitation of "Hey, Hololive is big and successfull - so if we just imitate all the ways they do things, we will surely become sucessfull in the same ways too, right?", what with all the things like auditions, character designs, pre-debut phases, big debut day, talent "generations", graduations, content (wow another chuuba that plays a cute anime girl character, plays the same bideogayms, and sings the same karaoke songs like pretty much everyone else, how original *snooze*).

>>9427892
I like them but they need to improve on their social media game

>>9492105
VShojo is Doom Patrol.

>>9494004
phase and cyber are the only ones really pushing here. tenma plays roguelites and pippa is insane. from cyber lumi plays strategy games and goes on history rants and hylo did a stocks stream. people are tired of cute girls doing nothing on stream

>>9494233
>people are tired of cute girls doing nothing on stream

I wouldn't go that far. Cute girls doing cute things are still the most dominant vtuber meta, by a mile, and the majority of the audience masses isn't tired of it, quite the opposite, this is exactly what they want out of the medium and why they're watching.
I have no intrinsic problems with it (who doesn't like to watch cute girls, at least in moderation?), only insofar as it stifles creativity unnecessarily because everybody thinks to be successfull you have to conform to the "standard model", and we end up with the current market of everything being all too similar, because everyone is only aping the leader (hololive) in an attempt to capture and recreate some of their success magic.

>>9494004
People jerk off about creativity too much.
Doing the basics but doing it right is more important than retarded "new" ideas.
Hololive sucks at the basics as do most indies, that's why when you get indies like Shiki who can actually stream at a decent level people flock to them

>>9494004
>what with all the things like auditions, character designs, pre-debut phases, big debut day, talent "generations", graduations, content
Is this ironic post? i can't tell anymore because of holobronies stupidity

>>9495272
I get what you're saying, and I agree that many Hololive talents are basically carried by the brand buff alone (for example, I feel pretty much nothing towards EN2 so far) while there are indies out there who do the same standard "cute girl" act better than them - if that's what you're into.
I'm just kinda "meh" on the whole notion that being "a cute anime girl" (because this is what "works" best for the actual business that's being done: extracting money from simps) is basically all that most players in the medium ever aspire to, and nobody is really chance taking the concept of "streaming with an avatar" to newer, original and unexpected heights.
But I fully recognize that this is mostly a "me"-problem, and most of the talents & audience are happy with the way things are, so I'm not really calling for them to "change" or anything, just that I personally am rather going to look into different niches where something innovative might appear.

>>9495969
There's a huge range between "cute anime girl" and "original and unexpected heights"
just being a good streamer will take you further than being original. Its the same shit as normal facecam streamers, people aren't putting on clown outfits and skydiving, its just some dude playing league with his neckbeard.

What makes people good streamers is their personality and how well they can keep the audience excited and interested in the stream, and their personality plays a bigger role in that than the content itself.

>>9495449
Not really? It's quite apparent that most of the small startup agencies basically follow the same "format", the standard of which as been set mostly by Hololive, at least in the west, after they became the standout sucess everyone is emulating their model with little individual spin on the same tropes.

Just for example, the way "debuts" are done is so homogenized now, it's almost comical how everyone in the industry basically does the same things as if there was some invisible "rulebook".

>Announcement with obscured character models
>Pre-debut phase of a few weeks, model reveal, talent communicates through tweets only (voice reveal comes on debut stream, though some indies do also sub-baiting shit like "model/voice reveal at xyz followers!" to build up hype)
>If they're debuting with multiple people (so the "generation" concept, another thing imitated from the big JP corpos), they have these extra cringy tweet interactions amongst each other
>Big debut day
>usually around one hour stream
>oh look it's another nervous anime girl, aww she's doing the same "bring your model in slowly from the side/below" as if we haven't seen that a million times before, how cute!
>here's my character sheet, name, age (usually doesn't reveal it), and my lore which won't really make any meaningful difference later anyway
>here's my "mama"/"papa" illustrator/modeler (another concept lifted straight from JP)
>and now comes what I call the "weeb check"-segment, where they list their favorite anime/games/music (usually the same entrylevel shit), so the audience can relate and go "awww look she likes the same things I do, urge to simp rising!!!"
>often they include another general "likes/dislikes" table, like you see in japanese idol magazines.
>next up, what streams would I like to do, or if they're already prepared, a schedule for the next week
>the last segment is usually some full body shots of their model, here's me trying out different poses, look what facial expressions I can do, etc. If they have some special talent like singing, the ending may also include a mini karaoke, etc.

You know you've seen this basic template a million times already before, and you'll see it a million times after still. Sure, I get "why" things are this way, Hololive does it this way, so every smaller imitator thinks they must do it the same way, and the audience has been "trained" by so many repetitions by now that they almost "expect" it this to be the "proper" way how you're supposed to do a debut. But still, the most memorable debuts are still the ones that didn't really follow this basic formula to a tee, and somehow deviated from it, and for that they became all more memorable.

>>9496892
Because that's the way of debut in this industry even before hololive become popular, hololive also copying what other big corp doing at the time. To be honest it's the best formula anyway, you can't expect people jump right in the stream when they don't know who the fuck you are. Lately, nijisanji is cutting the debut stream to 20 minutes max like what they did with nijiEN

Not really. I think there is an opportunity, but realistically any chuuba good enough to get enough subs would have no issue getting picked up by Vshojo, Hololive, or Nijisanji and would be better off just working with them instead of trying to reach their success levels with much less of a company/group buff

>>9403159
I really like the emo cat (raccoon?) girl

>>9497734
red panda

>>9497734
She's a dog.

>>9497734
shiki is that you?

>>9497856
>>9497864
whatever it is, I want to stick my pepe in it and pet it and bring it happiness

>>9497431
Shorter debut streams is something I think Niji is doing right, although 20 minutes is a bit too short. Half an hour or so is perfect.

>>9444234
>Why isn't there a western singing branch like kamitsubaki or riot?
What is Gorillaz?
What is Dethlock?

>open youtube and twitch
>open stream of the lowest viewed subbed/followed vtuber
simple as.

In terms of drama they generate/generated.
Amber glow > Cyberlive > tsunderia > Phase > Prism > Kawaii

>>9496892
Yeah the formula is practically set in stone right now and it could use some variety.

For example the HoloEN "Vsinger" could have been a half hour long karaoke or 3D concert to really build up the hype before going into the standard "here's me" stuff. Because it makes sense to have MC talk segments during a concert.

For introducing the model, you could have stage with curtains that part and a spotlight that focuses on you. You could have a house or apartment or cafe or bar entrance and then open a door to welcome you inside. You could have a van or a bus that rolls in, pauses and then rolls out revealing the vtuber that just "stepped off". You could have a street scene where they gradually "walk" towards the camera by slowly zooming in on the model from far away.

For the likes/dislikes part you could supplement or replace that part with answering marshmallow questions that you collect during predebut period.

There's so many more options than the existing orthodox style.

>>9493018
Cyberlive has pretty much already surpassed tsunderia. all the girls excluding hylo who was on a break have passed the gen 2 tsunderia girls and some by double their numbers. they are behind prism, and phase growth wise but their starting numbers match kawaii so far so we will see how they go.

>>9403159
whatever startup is the first to capitalize on GOOD 3D will succeed to some degree

Just remember: 13 viewers.

That is all.

>>9412568
oh shit its me