/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

why is catalog bait so shit nowadays?

the market decides the prices, what are you a commie?

>>73169218
Yes.
Artists get the gulag.

And the only people to blame is the ones that want the over the top everything the top end Vtubers are getting with their seven million toggles

>>73169095
>Why is this extremely in demand product so expensive?
Have these people ever worked a day in their lives?

>>73169095
>how dare they work for above minimum wage!
If you go for $15 per hour of work, that's 16 hours or two full workdays. People who are good at their job will not work for minimum wage and I doubt a good VTuber avatar with all their accessories and toggles is going to be done in that amount of time.
Everyone wants "artists to be paid well", until it's their time to foot the bill.

Don't want to pay $4,000 for a half-decent rig?
Learn to rig yourself.
And then charge that much for everyone else.
Or put your own morals where your mouth is and charge $250 for 500 hours of work like you think it's worth.

i mean yeah, they are like a cabal driving up the prices to very silly amounts. that's why they're so hostile when it comes to AI art too, scared shitless that they'll lose their precious golden cow. no model in the world is worth tens of thousands of dollars, yet that's what some vtubers are paying these days for models that aren't even that special or unique. reminder that vei's model + rigging cost like $50k and it's less soulful than her first model which i don't know how expensive that was, but probably just a few hundred? she was a nobody back then

every single vtuber I watch complains about how artists are lazy, constantly ghost them and never finish projects on time lmao
total artist death

>>73169095
Wow. First ever Nalithea deflection thread. Sorry that 5k people think you're a piece of shit.

>>73169095
get a real job

>>73169095
Supply and demand baby! WOOO CAPITALISM!

>>73170135
>676$ for emotes
LOL
LMAO EVEN

This girl did multiple chargebacks to her artist that are not justifiable so
well she might have a point she is a Karen hopping on the fuck artists train to try to justify her actions.

mumei got around 30k for drawing 400 doodles. artist are getting outta hand

this is a twitter raid thread btw
we dont like your kind around here artists, go back to your shithole

>>73170099
>AI art defender
You're a moron if you think a machine can make a model that even works

>>73170390
>that filename
go back

>>73170135
$676 for emotes? I am taking the chuuba side here

>>73169095
$250 is like two days of minimum wage.
If they worked on it for 15 months they'd have to charge almost $50,000 to match a job flipping burgers.
There are free tools and tutorials for rigging your own model, so if you think they're overcharging for their time, you can always just invest your own time into it and keep your money.

>>73170475
how many work hours (include negotiation and communication effort into this) you think go into emotes?

>>73170257
She ordered a lot of emotes and some are were animated and used them for like a year+ then did the chargeback claiming the emotes were damaged. She is upfront with her pricing as well.

>>73170008
>Everyone wants "artists to be paid well"
I don't. I hate artists and their whiny demands and hope they get replaced by AI.
>>73170390
5 years ago you were a moron if you thought AI could generate anything but word salad and dog eyeballs and now look at it. AI may be overhyped but this is pure cope.

>>73169095
Who ever Oshis this nut is definitely a commie

>>73170580
If it's after a year the VTuber has quite a bad case.

Afaik both are from Germany, and since she already got the service she will have to at least pay compensation for the work hours spent on it, even if she gives back the product.

What the fuck are those clowns talking about $250 was too much for rigging? And high quality ones too? Do you want to own it too at that price? Get commercial rights too? Of course they think that, they never did and rigged a model themselves. Is a pain in the ass, lot's of work. Prices actually started at 4 digits, where they should have been. $1000-1500 is a decent price for a mid rage model. But then as the boom started, you had a lots of kids desperate to make a business, selling that shit for 60 bucks on Fiveer, dropping the prices. It was the main reason why I didn't bother going into this, as after I drew and rigged a couple models as an experiment, I realized how how much work it is. At 250 dollars, you make under 10 dollars an hour. If prices doubled not, is not that artists realized that they can overprice you, the prices went up with inflation. The actual prices are still way bellow what they are worth.

>>73170569
I'm no pro artist and I could draw most of those in like 30 minutes
and I'm sure this artist has templates so it'd take less time than that

anyway this really feels like a twitter raid thread made by sisters, no one on /vt/ would defend artists. Especially not any indie watchers because all indies complain about how it's impossible to work with artists because they're all entitled cunts and treat their customers like shit

>>73170569
not enough for the prices artists are charging. if you're charging thousands for art or rigging you better have some innovations and not the same shit as everyone else

>>73170499
>15 months for some emotes
my guy, experienced emote artists make those in like 15 minutes. i used to watch 39daph (before she became a hysterical commie) and she'd dish them out so fucking quick it wasn't even funny

>>73169095
>high quality models
>in 2019
lol. lmao even.

>>73169218
That's a non statement. It's like someone said it's hot outside and you go on a spiel about how God actually determined the weather. Like okay, it's still hot.

If consumer advocacy can convince some people to overpay less and so drive down prices, that is also the free market.

>>73170475
I'm not taking the chuubas side for that, you have to be fucking retarded to even consider paying that kinda price for anyone who ain't the artist for a top-tier emote seller.

>>73170135
>5k people
>Twitter "people"

>>73170669
Looking further she even did an additional chargeback because this emote artist no longer wants to anything to do with her, because that... somehow means you no longer need to pay them for work they did a year ago?

I almost think OP posted this so more people would drudge up this emote shit and find out this literal who 2view is a shitheel.

>>73169925
>Have these people ever worked a day in their lives?
They are a streamer.
So no.

>>73170772
even less than 15 minutes, most artists have templates for these emotes
making models and rigging take time, I understand high prices for that but emote artists are all scammers

>>73170748
Normally, /vt/ would happily chew up and spit out the artist except if it's true that the chuuba was using the emotes for a long time and just did a chargeback to make some money then we're in Gimli x Legolas territory.

>>73170135
>>73170847
Holy based. I wish your 2view well

>>73169095
>2019
Bidenomics made money's worth drop like a ton of bricks, inflation between 2019-2024 is twice what it was between 2009-2014.

>>73169095
>what is the free market?

world economy is so dumb. first worlders can't compete with third world prices.
>first worlder can't sell shit because no one can afford their prices.
>but first worlder can work a fast food job and be able to afford third world prices.
>therefore, no job is viable for the first worlder except the top tier one as a vtuber, and they can easily afford to pay third world prices for all the assets necessary for it by working a fast food job in their first world country.
>third worlders try to charge more for assets to get more of that first worlder money.
>now third worlders are priced out and can't afford to become vtubers.
rigged to make first worlders dominate the industry.

>>73170748
You say "indies" but it's never the sizeable ones, who easily maintain a good relationship with their artists, it's always the seething nobodies who can't get anywhere on their own merits

>>73170099
No model costs tens of thousands of dollars, stop exaggerating. What costs tens of thousands of dollars are commercial rights. Someone like Vei has a business, she sells merch of that model and makes tens if not thousands of dollars a year of it. If you buy a book from the library you don't get the right to make a movie out of it do you? Rights are bough separate. Is the same with models. Artists are selling commercial rights for their art separately, and it can cost between 1 and 3 times the value of the art. But that applies only to companies and professional vtubers, not someone 1 view vtweeter who just starts. Those would never afford a high end model anyway. A high-end model costs 5k-10k, which is actually fair. A model like Vei's, could take 500 hours to rig. You peoples have no fucking clue how much work goes into that shit.

>>73170772
idk what you're talking about, the topic was model/rigging prices and how the price is apparently meant to reflect 15 months of work, but I doubt they actually tried to charge $50,000.

oh boy the mythic defense force is going hard

>>73171103
this whole situation is about emotes. why are you talking about something when you don't even know the context?

>>73170814
artists have been getting big heads lately so prices have increased almost everywhere. I've been thinking of unfollowing one because they moved into a 2.5k/month apartment and now their twitter is all bitching about how they can't afford rent

>>73170806
Nope, that's a normal statement. "The market decides the price" means that the price it offers is the one at equilibrium, it's not high and it's not low. In order for you to say the price is high you need another price to compare it to which you don't have, it's your own personal judgement.

>>73169095
This reminds me of this indog trying to sell her model for 3 grand. Saw her randomly on twitter like 2 years later still trying to sell.

>holofags will go to bat for thieves just to be tribal over mythic talent
sad

>>73170099
80k Shylily model
You could buy a house in some still nice country for that money

>>73171115
Yeah, they're not even being subtle

>>73171124
there is nothing about emotes in the OP you mouth-breathing retard.

>>73171043
A scam

>>73171182
ok, so you straight up just don't know the situation about the chargeback for the emotes and you're STILL here giving your shitty takes. that's /vt/ for you, i guess

>>73170951
Gimli would crush that pansy elf with one good axe throw to the shins.

>>73170126
When you pay like 60 bucks for a bunch of illustrations or a model and you are also pretentious, you do get ghosted the moment artist get's a better offer, or just feels that is not worth it. Underpay doesn't motivate workers. Many years ago, I started doing comic books and manga, and I started low, at 20 dollars a page... I did ghost a bunch of clients and abandoned projects, because it wasn't motivating at all. But once I got to a point where I could demand over 100 dollars per page, then suddenly I became very motivated to finish. Also, from experience, those who pay pennies for your work, are usually the most demanding.

>>73171103
Rigging also isn't months of work unless you're an "artiste" who overcharges because you do 2 minutes of work and 3 xannies every day. The average person could just learn it themselves in that time.

>>73171139
Which is why free market economics is just legalized scamming. You need a big dumb pile of regulations to stop people from taking advantage of that scam, and the richest still do.

Model?

>>73171212
That's you changing the subject and replying to people as if the original subject never existed. You must be mentally ill.

>>73171168
Holy shit no wonder why the big companies don't capitulate to the market scene. Still though some of the tech should be definitely pursued to improve better in house.

>>73171023
>2019
>Bidenomics
pls tell me you're shitposting

>>73170629
AI art is useless, because you can't own. Is made by a machine, so you can't copyright it. If you make AI art or merch with the intention of commercializing it, anyone can copy and commercialize it themselves, because is public domain.

>>73169505
Why don’t you generate some pussy you fucking dork lol

>>73171139
>The market decides the price" means that the price it offers is the one at equilibrium, it's not high and it's not low
That only means you're drawing erroneous conclusions. The free market is not independent of the people participating in it. People are retarded. Illuminating people that they're being retarded is also participation in the free market. See sub prime loans.

>>73171217
This is why everyone hates you
You will be replaced by AI

>>73171342
Thank fuck a fucking monkey took a selfie and it led to AI art being non copyrightable

>>73171342
ESL aside, all you have to do is to use the AI for concept/design then have someone draw it properly. that someone might even be you.

so many seething artists itt lmao

>>73171315
>Biden wasn't in office before inflation went off the rails
>that means you're wrong!
Tell me you can read.

>>73171232
sounds like a regular artist to me. don't forget moving to an expensive area dispite not being able to afford living there

>>73171263
how am i changing the subject when that's literally what the thread is about? it's amazing how bait threads in the catalog attracts retards like you who don't know about the situation but still enter the threads and start sperging. genuinely fascinating behavior. you people are like flies being attracted to a turd.

>>73171232
So let the average person learn it and drive the costs down if it is so easy
Free market baby

>>73171496
This is literally what happened until a couple of riggers decided to become vtubers too, and artificially drive up the prices.

>>73171535
>a couple of riggers can control the cost of rigging
roru
you said the average person can do it so a few riggers becoming vtubers should affect the prize.

>>73171456
Why the hell would you use an AI for concept design when you can draw yourself faggot?

is she getting rightfully shat on on twitter at least

>>73171496
>So let the average person learn it
They are. Most chuubas I know are starting to rig their own stuff now, or they get help from their chuuba friends who're artists/riggers
>drive the costs down
This wont happen, the artists will just cry about how no one supports them anymore, because that's what they always do. They're all mentally ill and self-entitled. That's why they draw anime characters online instead of getting a real job

>>73171473
I'm sure someone will buy your "$50 for three emotes" pack any day now my friend

How long til AI replaces the whinny riggers, who claim to be artists?

>>73171217
>you do get ghosted the moment artist get's a better offer, or just feels that is not worth it
If you find someone is lowballing your work, just tell them fuck off. Artist should stop being passive-agressive assholes

>>73171496
Yes. My favorite 3view rigged herself with no experience. AI tools that do rigging for you are also not that far off.

>>73171342
I don't think anyone's dumb enough to try to actually make a cohesive product using nothing but AI art, but I have to wonder how literally that goes
Like can we just go to one of those Patreons that somehow get people donating for AI generations, take their generations, and post them ourselves saying we made them

>>73171620
and i'm sure the artist vtuber you're simping for will fuck you any day now

mythic is a fucking flesh cancer upon vtubing

>>73169095
Sellers want their goods to be as expensive as possible. Buyers want the goods to be as cheap as possible.
She is kind of a hypocrite since she shits on riggers in public to force them to undercharge and get away from it by using the mob as her shield.

>>73171632
Less than a year probably. Rigging is extremely easy and vtubers are starting to realize it, so many vtubers rig their own models nowadays

>>73170390
It can and it will, and the AI generated models will be better than the manual ones. In fact, soon AI will animate the avatar on the fly, without the need for any rigging. Give it a drawing (or a picture), a webcam or lidar feed, and wear your skinsuit pronto.
AI will also take your job, by the way.
>>73171342
>legal arguments
Moving the goalpost? Laws can be changed and they most certainty will, as soon as AI allows companies to lay off thousands of people.

>>73171709
If it's so easy why are the big corpos so shit at it

I'm saying it like a shitpost but I am honestly baffled how bad corpo rigging is

>>73169095
Doing backflips to avoid paying for your compulsive purchase is fucking pathetic, but I guess twitter would be the most fitting platform to post that on.

>>73171693
What part of publically shaming riggers is not part of the free market?
>YOU CAN'T USE YOUR SPEECH AGAINST ME THAT'S..
It's what?

>>73171232
Yes they could very well be overcharging and exaggerating how much work it is. But the figure given is $250, and she's saying they're charging more than that now. How much more? Because $250 sounds a bit low, I imagine you could earn that money faster flipping burgers than making a good custom model and rigging.
>>73171259
This is probably the best solution. Just buy a premade model and recolor it. Isn't Filian's model something anyone can buy and use?

>>73171802
they have their in-hose apps for tracking stuff instead of the public apps indies and small corpos use, and those apps are just not as good as the public stuff anymore

>>73171460
the money printer in yankeeistan went brrrr mid-2020, both parties are at fault on how your economy is now.
>>73171593
concept design and meticulous drawing aren't the same skill.

>>73171802
they still have the same people doing the rigging they first hired. gura's rigger got a ridiculous amount of work for how bad he was

>>73171872
>Filian's model
7K ¥

>>73169095
Seems retarded. Has she or anyone shopped around?
>this artist used to do comissions for this price
>then that talent got popular and this artist was in demand
There are still talented artists that are not well known you can get commissions for on the cheap. Someone I work with will draw you like 20 sketches for 20 bucks and he's pretty good.

>>73171926
Rigging can only do so much when the tracking software's not up to the standard of a free app

>>73171473
How did you get this deranged? You just reply to someone talking about models/rigging as if they were talking about a different subject, one about emotes, and then freak out screaming that the topic is about emotes. No it wasn't, you senile idiot. If you have some kind of mental problem, put on your "please be patient" hat.

>>73171802
Japanese don't fire and they also go schizo if they feel slighted.

>>73169925
This is one of those cases where supply and demand explains it perfectly well, yet this faggot is crying because they can’t exploit starving artists for poverty wages anymore

>>73171872
Filian's models are publicly purchaseable from Booth and whatnot, yeah. The side effect of that is that you see a million not-Filians everywhere in VRchat and whatever, and she's probably the only content creator on the planet who's seen any success using these widely-available models.
But at the same time she's so successful a lot of people recognize this character as "Filian" even though the design is owned by someone else, which I'd imagine must come with some hefty royalties for the original creator.

>>73169095
But things has changed the rig were more static back then, now they are very expressive and vtubers wants more animations than ever, I don't think we could really compare the prices before the boom of vtubers

>>73172002
Ah yes it was the tracking softwares fault when no one else had problems like Rhombus Gura, fucking holes in the model and shit

>>73172090
"starving artists" living in the most expensive cities in the world, openly displaying hammer and sickle in their bio, as soon as someone suggests people are overpaying for their services: BRO WHAT ABOUT FREE MARKET BRO CHILL

>>73169095
Basic supply and demand principles at work. Maybe don't chase after artists that have a successful daughter and give a "weaker" artist a shot. Oh wait you think they're likely to produce low-quality work and refuse to give them a chance, thereby contributing to the increased value of established artists. You just want an Asagi or Nacho or Nabi model for cheap.

>>73172090
>exploit starving artists for poverty wages
FREE MARKET BABY

>>73172027
the situation is about emotes. i don't know what to tell you anon...

>>73171638
>Artist should stop being passive-agressive assholes
They won't, and that's why AI will replace them. The worst part about commissioning art is dealing with artists.

>>73172090
if they move out of the super expensive apartment they can afford food. you don't need to live in the center of a large city to draw shit online

>>73171823
Idk why you brought out free market and speech. I merely pointed out that she is no different from the riggers. No need to white knight her.

>all the third worlders seething about artists
yeah I don't know what I expected from /vt/ honestly, the same subhumans who consume hours of "drama" about anime girls playing Minecraft

>>73171802
Because they are Japanese companies and move with the speed, inertia, and maneuverability of a freight train. Notice how your argument doesn't apply to Western corpos.

>>73172111
I still remember her floating cat ear

>>73171958
>>73172103
So it's cheap as shit. I remember Rindo also used the model. It has some limitations since you're licensing it rather than owning it, but it seems like a valid option. You still own your name so you can just change to a new design whenever. Like Filian could market any white foxgirl design as herself.

>>73172253
>be an utterly unlike group of people
>act surprised when nobody likes you

>>73172253
literally everyone hates artists lmao
even other artists hate artists
t. artist

>>73171168
>Paying 80k for this downgrade
Jeezuuz.

>>73169095
And then the artists bitch and whine when AI starts replacing them for being lazy and charging too much.

>>73171958
she didn't even pay that and just pirated it lmao

>>73172392
based

>>73172236
You're clearly implying she's doing something unreasonable calling her a hypocrite but you can't elaborate why. All anyone can say is "muh frew market" but no one can explain how pointing it out is not a part of the market. Really seems like riggers and rigger defenders think she's telling the truth with how mad they are that this message is out there.

>>73172198
You pulled emotes out of your ass when replying to something talking about models/rigging, acting as if the post was about emotes and not models/rigging because your mental illness causes you to make magical connections like that. Are you crying in shame right now, trying to double down in the hopes of deflecting? Pathetic. Man up and put on the hat.

>>73172459
NTA but you're retarded and posting in a drama thread without even know what the drama is about. At least read the fucking thread

>>73171063

>>73172504
>NTA
Sure, retard.
Nothing will change the fact that you replied to something about models/rigging as if it were talking about emotes, then had a meltdown because the post you replied to did not, in fact, magically warp into being about emotes.

>>73171063
sounds like artfag cope to me. if you stop whining on the Internet it wouldn't take 500 hours pussy

>>73171906
>concept design and meticulous drawing arent the same skill
You talk like someone who has skill issue. Concept art is a cake walk if you can draw detailed piece

>>73169186
Sisters will use anything to deflect from NijiEN's collapse.

>>73172459
make magical connections? the user in the op chargebacked for emotes, which is what the whole drama is about. this thread is bait in response to that. i legitimately hope you're trolling or you might be the least intelligent person i've ever had the displeasure of talking to on this fucking board.

>>73172774
oh right i forgot nijisanji hates artists, this makes sense now

>>73171063
500 hours sounds like they don't know how to do it any have to learn as well. Which is fine, but you shouldn't charge for the time you take to learn the skill.

>>73172392
based

>>73172299
>>73172315
You're on fucking 4chan, on a Vtuber board. Most likely you came here because of anime or vidya. All of these hobbies completely fueled by art and artists. And here you are crying for them to be replaced by AI shitslop because your idea of artists are cartoonish snobs with a french hat getting paid millions of dollars to shit on a canvas.
And to get back to the original topic people like Vei or Shylily paying 50k for their model is absolutely nothing when they probably made millions in their career and the model is LITERALLY their image and what makes Vtubers actual Vtubers.

>>73172789
>OP still says models/rigging and not emotes.
>Replies to OP still talk about models/rigging and not emotes.
I can't believe it, reality did not warp to suit your mental illness. Hint: Sane people recognize that other people aren't talking about emotes and bring it up as a new relevant topic rather than replying as if it were already being discussed and then having a meltdown when their mistake is pointed out.

>>73173010
dont compare yourself to anime artists, self entitled faggot, though the anime artists are also shit nowadays
go back to twitter

you are not entitled to high quality assets.

>>73173010
The real issue is third worlders can charge $250 but a first worlder would starve if they accepted that little.

>>73173212
Skill issue
Gentrification is the solution
>Verification not required.

>>73171799
>soon AI will animate the avatar on the fly, without the need for any rigging.
This feels pretty pie in the sky but like I said earlier, so did what AI can do now if you asked 5 years ago, so who knows. I look forward to the tech continuing to amaze me and make the terminally online seethe

>>73173010
get a real job sister

I feel like rigging is one of those things that will end up being done entirely by AI very soon.
Maybe they are trying to take what they can get before their whole profession start to become largely obsolete

>>73173212
I thought huwites were supposed to starve while the bipox minority majority gets reparations. Shouldn't artists lead the charge?

>>73173010
AI slop producers are the most braindead faggots on this site and the biggest crybabies. They’re on the level of nijisisters on bringing up their bullshit no one cares about into every conversation

>>73171802
I know I'm in the minority here but I vastly prefer stiff corpo rigging to indie twitch shit where every part of the model moves 60 times a second if the chuuba so much as breathes.

>>73169095
POORFAG
Stick to being a woke vtweeter.
Fucking poorfags

>>73173047
>dectupling down
the. drama. is. about. emotes. what is it about this that you can't understand? do you realize there's a world going on outside of your field of view? do you suffer from such an extreme case of protagonist syndrome that you think the world stops existing when you close your eyes? anon... i'm speechless. i've never met someone who personifies the NPC meme as much as you.

>>73173387
Because that's whose malding right now...

>>73169095
no shit?

>>73173397
oh definitely, that extremely jiggly rigging is the first sign that you're watching a twitch whore with a model and not an actual vtuber
there are still so many 1views that have better rigging than big corpo chuubas though, and most of them rig their own models

>>73170135
Damn, I gotta start watching this girl. I fucking hate snobby artists

>>73173322
>>73173379
Basically, first worlders are encouraged to buy rather than sell. Buying costs them very little and selling earns them very little. Thus, products flow from the third world to the first world while jobs for production flow from the first world to the third world.

>>73173387
>Hey, AI could do that
>(9k word rant) AND THAT'S WHY Y-YOU'RE CRYING
Artists really think the whole world is their Twitter page

>>73169095
I could sell my work for $200 or $2000, why would I want to get less money for it?
>inb4 greedy, self interested, etc
and wanting to pay less money for my time and work is not greedy and self interested

>>73173010
Keep calling it shitslop and cope. The vast majority of art that goes into games is gruntwork that AI can now do better and faster than 99% of "artists" for a fraction of the cost.
At least do a labor politics and focus on the lost jobs, that'd at least be respectable. Pretending AI art looks bad because your idea of it is some guy putting "anime girl" into an online generator and posting the first thing it produces is just pathetic.

>>73173567
I'd say something but I don't want to be anti-semitic

>>73169095
>250$
MAM

>>73173612
yeah, damn jewish vtubers don't want to pay for my hard work

>>73172774
Genuine question, does anyone actually make deflection threads? Why would anyone care enough to shift the narrative on some mongolian basket weaving forum?

>>73173397
I'm not too into the mega jiggling myself but the part I'm focused on is stuff like how indie rigs could emulate head turning without just looking like they took the free transform tool to the model long before corpos did, despite corpos having all the money at their disposal

>>73173460
You need to see a doctor and be made aware of your mental illness. I'll break down what happened for you to help you understand:
OP: *talks about time to create models/rigging*
Reply to OP: *discusses time to create models/rigging*
You replying to them: "EmoTes doN'T takE thAt lOng tO crEaTe!!!"
Helpful person: "We were discussing models/rigging, not emotes."
You melting down: "WTF EVERYTHING IS ABOUT EMOTES"
Do you understand now why you need to see a doctor and get a proper diagnosis for your mental disability?

>>73170475
did she go into her bank account and steal the money from it?

>>73173567
I didn't see anything there about artists not being incentivized to charge more. It was the opposite.

>>73170748
>I could
And yet you don't. Interesting.

>>73173704
>fails to address any of my points
i accept your concession

>>73173757
Why would I?

>>73173733
>nowadays they can get away with overcharged prices

>>73173804
Yes, it is a post about how artists are incentivized to overcharge. What about it? How does saying
>well I would do it too
do anything but agree with it?

>>73173763
You don't have to pretend to be a troll now that you outed yourself as a retard.

>>73172103
Heart heart heart

>>73173910
>completely free female model piloted by a male.
People just need to learn to grift better.

>>73170748
So let's say 16 emotes with 30 minutes, that means 8 hours of pure work on the emotes.
A professional freelance graphics designer in the country they come from charges around 65€ per hour, so that makes 520€ at minimum.

>>73169095
Demand for high quality models skyrocketed post-2019 while supply remaind relatively low, causing a massive increase in pricing as people who make the models were able to find customers willing to pay those higher prices. Blame the big corpo agencies who were willing and able to shell out thousands for a good model, they're the reason your favorite small indie can't afford a good model or rigging.

>>73173906
ok, i'm getting seriously tired of you so i'll just spoonfeed you like the mentally stunted child you are.
https://twitter.com/lauritarpg/status/1776759093782352037
tell me where it says anything about models or rigging. it's about emotes.

>>73174000
Anon I think they meant 30 minutes for all of them, not 30 minutes for each.

>>73173676
Yes it happens all the time, why? Stupidity. It becomes obvious when suddenly theres like 3+ threads in the catalog all attacking a non nijisanji vtuber for something really mundane and not even actual drama.

>>73170257
my man one emote by that artist is 35USD thats p much around the middle pricing of the industry. That vtuber just bought a bunch. and then scammed them.

>>73173676
Narratives formed /here/ often break containment and spread, so there is value in manipulating /vt/ narratives, plus the noise created acts as a distraction from other matters.

>>73173010
So being a Vtuber is completely reliant on whether you're rich enough to shill 50k for a model worth $200? Fuck that, artists need to kill themselves

>>73169095
wait why is she doubling down? she used the fucking emotes for almost 2 years and now she wants it for free?

>>73170847
>noooo you can't just chargeback me after i go on a twitter character assassination tirade
Hope this guy gets evicted tbqh

>>73171799
>2mw

>>73174350
No, shelling out 2+k on a model is dependent on no one realizing those artists (with the exception of a rare few at the top) are fleecing them. Hence they're so mad here.

>>73170847
HOLY BASED
This bitch can't be stopped. Fuck dramafagging snob artists

>>73171253
>>73171410
>prices are too high!
then negotiate a price, compromise for less features for a lower price or go find someone else who will offer you a better deal. if after that you can still not find anyone then it means that you are either broke, or the amount of people with the skills to make quality products is low and the demand is high, which increases the prices. if you want to pay less for it either wait until models are easier to produce, there are more people with skills to make them or there is a lower demand for them which would make designers lower their prices in order to keep having an income

>>73174350
Or you could learn to do it yourself

>>73174511
Fuck that. Just wait for a robot to do it

>>73174509
I would never in a million years commission an artist, I'm just laughing at people simping for le free market

>>73173950
How? Neuro's one of the largest EN vtubers, Vedal's grifting is at a level that lesser grifters can only dream of.

>>73169095
Higher demand means higher prices.
Post covid+Biden society means higher cost of living... means higher prices.
More vtubers debuting means more competition, less profit distributed per person. Higher prices gatekeep the unwilling trend hoppers.

If you aren't taking out a down payment for a model and debut assets, you're not a real vtuber.

>>73174509
>then negotiate a price,
She is negotiating by raising the issue. The more people on her side the more counter pressure on the price. The fact that you and so many others are mad enough about it to post walls of text shows that you have no confidence in the current pricing paradigm holding up in the free market for the long term.

>>73174458
NTA but the fact that people can look at the meteoric rise in quality of generative AI output and be like "hehe it's bad and will never be good actually" is really funny to me. It hasn't even been a decade.

You can get a fully rigged, unique Live2D model from Booth for like $50, maybe even $20 if you're willing to cheap out a little. Artists don't want you to know this. They want you to insist on having your cringe OC custom made for you for $5000.

>>73171342
Photography is useless, because you can't own. Is made by a machine, so you can't copyright it.
Digital paintings is useless, because you can't own. Is made by a machine, so you can't copyright it.
3D models is useless, because you can't own. Is made by a machine, so you can't copyright it.

How much input do you have to do in order to have something not be "made by a machine"? How many decisions, in some quantifiable way, do I have to make before I can own something? What portion of an image can be AI generated before it's "not enough" human effort? What parts of cognitive labor is it allowed to perform for me?

>>73174707
$20-$50 is mass production stuff. Genuine, unique models start around $100. Here's a cute one for my /wasp/ queens for about $130:

https://buri-buri.booth.pm/items/5035738

It's unique, meaning that only one will be ever sold, so you won't even have copycats going around.

>>73174000
the average emote artist isn't a professional graphic designer who deserves 65€ per hour

>>73174870
>アダルトコンテンツへの使用は禁止です。
Useless for any /wasp/ers who want to make it, sorry.

>>73174564
But if you do then you could be the one charging thousands of dollars for a model and justify it in the future because it was made by a "real artist" instead of AI

>>73174750
i expect to see a whole lotta goat farming in the arts community while they figure that out

>>73170772
>experienced emote artists
An artist would likely argue that you’re paying for that skill and experience, I definitely don’t think this is worth it but thats kind of up to the individual consumer to decide.

>>73169095
No, she's wrong and an entitled westoid. $250 before taxes is about 10 hours of work max. She's expecting that the person is going to be spending 50-100 hours on it. She's literally arguing for third-world sweatshop prices, then you get third-world sweatshop models. Even kids grow up and have to leave their parent's house or graduate from college and need to fend for themselves. Then you get grown up prices. It was never the case that established artists worked on big projects for only a few hundred bucks.
For what it's worth, she can still find plenty of people that offer third-world sweatshop prices.

>>73174350
No. What I'm saying is that those two specific Vtubers who paid 50k for a model make that in a single fucking month. Paying it for the model which is half their brand is not an outrageous thing and only retards would seethe about it.
Also you don't have to pay that, there are quite a few examples in this thread of the fact that you can buy stock models for 50 bucks.
>Fuck that, artists need to kill themselves
Why because artists DARE to charge money for their products instead of giving them to you for free?

>>73174677
sounds more like she is angry that she can't get someone who has worked with big names to rig her model without paying what they are asking for, which makes me question if she herself wasn't the one making this thread
maybe (you) are her...show tits

>>73175000
get a real job

>>73169095
Why won't artists just accept payment in exposure like normal? It's so unfair and gatekeeping!

>>73175033
That's exactly the issue. They want them to work at prices where it makes no sense to do it instead of flipping burgers at McDonalds.

>>73175147
art is easier than flipping burgers

>>73175178
there's no ctrl-z if you fuck up someone's big mac

>>73175000
They already are 3rd world models. Most of those guys come from south east asia, they won't make anything close to $250 by >>73175033
>>73175147
flipping burgers or "getting a real job".

>>73174702
It won't because it can't. It'll also never be able to give you exactly what you want like a human can

>>73175178
Maybe if you’re already an artist, a burger flipper can learn how to flip burgers in an afternoon

>>73175010
Maybe she is, I can't read her mind. She's still right in what she wrote. The rigger market is overinflated and not everyone making thousands on their work is churning out anything worth that price, because most of the buyers are total retards.

>>73174750
NTA, but let's step back a bit.
AI art is non copyrightable because it was made using copyrighted assets (the dataset), NOT because it was made by a machine (which would be unenforceable and easily loopholed, as you rightly pointed out).
What will almost certainly happen is that in the future the dataset will be sold separately (made by art by consenting artists), probably with some sort of subscription service, while the model by itself may be used by the artists themselves when they need a lot of art assets churned out fast (like portaits for many different NPCS in a large RPG) using their own art as datasheet.

>>73174750
Any amount of genuine input. All things you listed just use machines as tools. The AI models you're talking about do not function well without the input data which was scrapped for non-commercial research purposes only. They knew what they were doing violated copyright.

>>73175217
There actually is, i flipped burgers before and my ctrl z was a paper towel or rinsing it under water. Most costumers are too retarded to notice anything off.

>your products are too expensive
>"supply and demand, pay for it or fuck off"
>ok, fuck you
>"noooooooo, stop complaining about the prices and just buy my product!!!!!!!"
why are artists like this

>>73175306
you don't understand how any of this works. you can't just start a model from scratch using only your own art lmao. or i guess you can, but it's not gonna be able to produce anything that resembles art

>>73169095
The quality have significantly risen over the years though, even for Live2D models. back then they were basically moving static images with expressions that hentai games have better live2D animations. 250 wouldve been right at that time, even now twitch vtubers have models that would outright mog those models back then.

>>73175005
The artists selling models for cheap aren't the problem. It's artists doing shit like charging the better half of a $1,000 for twitch emotes from a Vtuber that probably pays less than that for rent. The inflation of Vtuber models is real and is completely the fault of artists , no one is going to find the diamond in the rough artist who charges a reasonable price when it's more convenient to just agree to take the hit.

>>73175277
The tiny minority who are that picky can go patronize the boutique artists that will still be around no matter how good AI gets.

>>73175277
I don't think either of these are true. I'll admit- if you want something very specific, then at the moment AI tools kind of suck.
but I think this is a big issue for many clients and I don't doubt in the near future it will be much easier to get specific camera angles, lighting, etc out of an AI image

>>73169095
There is a dude on twitter trying to make a model+rigging AI, I wonder what will happen to vtubing if he actually succeeds.

>>73175327
>Waaaaahhhh why aren't your prices the same as they were 6 years ago when nobody gave a fuck about vtubers!?
>Because supply and demand.
>Nooooooooooooo you're supposed to uproot your entire life to move to a poverty area so you can afford to piss off the entire industry by undercutting your competition by 10,000% so I can afford I high quality model on minimum wage to cover for how unentertaining my 2view ass is!

>>73169095
To be fair back then it cost tens of thousands to get a proper 3D model so Live2D was the easy and cheap budget alternative. She's just trying to justify her own immoral behavior.

>>73175611
you should try getting a real job instead of seething about people not wanting to buy your overcharged anime drawings

>>73175178
It really fucking isn't. And I'm saying this as someone who is learning to draw while working as a burger flipper. Good art is something that takes years and years of constant practice just to reach a level when you can get some shitty 100 bucks commissions. You'll have lots of moments where you feel like you hit a wall and there is no getting around it until you fill 200 pages to break through. Add to that the fact that's it's an oversaturated market and it requires a good deal of creativity and the ability to be a decent bussinessmen to promote your work. EVEN when you make it you're still expect to put tons of hours of work to make a liveable wage. I know a lot of corporate drones and IT monkeys who make thousands of dollars a month working from home and doing busywork for half the effort or skills required.
The "people" seething at artists are genuine unironic subhumans.

>>73175494
>The tiny minority who are that picky
>being picky

>>73171342
>muh can't copyright AI
That's not the big own you think it is.
A couple hundred is enough to commission your OC from even a really good artist. That's the part that is subject to copyright. The rigging is most of the expense and it's just technical work.

There is also nothing preventing you from designing everything from scratch and aiding your creation, like cleaning up the line work and inking, with AI.

>>73175489
There are many that are cheap. It's not hard. You can even make your own emotes. I don't see the issue here. You want stuff specifically made for you by a specific individual, you don't get to set the terms unless you're holding them hostage. That's obvious and any argument contrary is intellectually dishonest.

>>73175769
Christ almighty.

>>73175769
See >>73173595 and keep coping

>>73174958
this image is the "AI art isn't real art/shouldn't be used for anything/AI requires no skill" argument in a nutshell.

How can you complain about the price of something you can procure yourself for free while simultaneously claiming it's easy? Just do it yourself? It's like complaining oranges are too expensive while sitting next to a fucking orange tree. If it's so easy and isn't worth the price, go do it yourself.

Small Indie's are not the primary target market of those artists charging thousands for their stuff. Big vtuber agencies and the top tier Indies are. There is an entire seperate cheaper industry aimed at you. Its like a person complaining about the price on bottles of luxery wine when they do their own weekly shopping at Food Lion. You are not their market.

>>73175889
>See >>73173595 and keep coping
>said while coping

>>73169218
Complaining about prices in public is part of the market, though. The market is a tool for good, not an idol.

>>73175775
You need to disclose the use of Gen AI on platforms now. You can obviously try to pretend you didn't use it, and depending on your edits you might be able to avoid detection. It's still not going to go well in the long run for various reasons notwithstanding that others also had the same brilliant idea and did the same execution steps.

>>73175400
? Yes you can.
You need a shitton of it, but prolific artists do produce a shitton of art.

>>73171342
There are AI fags making 5 figures on patreon LMAO, it's over for artfags.

>>73175741
well I disagree, I can draw well but I had an actual mental breakdown when I tried working as a burger flipper
but it really isnt a good comparison because art is mainly a hobby so artists develop art skill before becoming a pro artist, while that's not the case for "real" jobs
also the real reason why people hate artists has nothing to do with any of this, you'd understand if you interacted with them. these people are some of the most narcissistic faggots you can find on the internet
>>73175769
literal skill issue, that's like saying digital art sucks because you don't know how to use pen pressure

>>73176069
>You need to disclose the use of Gen AI on platforms now.
"Platforms" which ones, ones specifically for artists to show their art? Because that's irrelevant. You don't need to disclose anything to stream or sell merch.

Nobody beyond 2 views are going to want to use AI generated models because of the stink of desperate techbro scam artists associated with them, same as NFTs

>>73176169
Anon I asked for orange dots and it gave me orange tumors. This would never happen even with the worst human artist.

>>73169095
She also has a fansly and merch store. Why doesn't she lower her prices? She is literally making money from stuff she did not create, that she commissioned, reselling it to people. It's hard to understand how anyone would take her side in this. It's not like she is giving it away or charging low prices. Total hypocrite grifter.

>>73176275
You people have been screaming "AI is just heckin NFTs" since GPT3.5 popularized the subject. There is no reasoning in your heads.

>>73169095
Why's she bitching about models when she charged back for emotes? Buyers remorse is not a reason to charge back a year after an art commission was delivered.

The whole "oh no they used AI!!" is just growing pains anyway. As it becomes more common, the people who won't buy something because AI are going to become a loud minority safely ignored, just like everything else in media that people raise a stink about like woke/unwoke politics.

>>73176286
Because you don't know how to use it retard

>>73175817
If I go to an overpriced restaurant with shit food, it doesn't matter if I could have just cooked at home. I'm still going to complain.If you're hiring them, you do set the terms. If they overprice you, you tell them to fuck off

>>73176145
i normally don't like AI art but there's one artist on pixiv who says he's using AI and his pictures look fucking amazing. i'm guessing he's touching them up manually or something because they don't have that typical AI look, making them kind of a hybrid between digital art and AI art, but i don't actually know to what extent he's using it. in any case, i'm impressed and he's making some of the best lolifeet content i've seen

>>73176237
Like on Youtube, since November or so. But go off, you're feeling yourself, I know.

>>73176359
They desperately want AI to be another crypto even though crypto has been useless for 15 years and AI went from lofty idea to pure magic you can see for yourself in your browser in a third of that time.

>>73176074
I think you might need more than just a shit ton. you might even need more than one person can produce in a lifetime. I mean obv you can train on any amount of data, but under 100k images might result in a not so good model (talking out of my ass here but it sounds kind of correct)

>>73169095
You are a piece of shit

>>73171139
>you need another price to compare it to which you don't have
she literally just said 250$

>>73176377
Yep this time your get rich quick scheme will work

>>73176412
No, you're going around into their restaurant and screaming about prices, and leaving a hundred negative reviews. Just don't eat there my guy.
In reality there is nothing wrong with the art that is made, and people are aware, and have a portfolio to check. You just don't want to pay for it. Then find something you do want to pay for.

>>73176384
>literally only one possible way to interpret the prompt
>Y-you just don't know how to use it retard! AI will take over! You'll see!
Cope

>>73176454
You think it's magic because you're limited mentally. To me it's the dead internet becoming real. I have seen search results flooded with AI results recently and it is becoming increasingly harder to find things I want. It will only get worse.

>>73173595
>The vast majority of art that goes into games is gruntwork that AI can now do better
You're right games like Cuphead and Hollow Knight aren't carried by the art and I'm sure your AI shitslop could do better huh?
Hell even iconic nip games like Dark Souls, Street Fighter, Persona etc have a strong art directors and you can see that in the concept art books, easily available on /ic/.
>Pretending AI art looks bad because your idea of it is some guy putting "anime girl" into an online generator and posting the first thing it produces is just pathetic
And yet that's all I see AI "artists" produce. Endless copy pasted slops of anime girls with the same realistic rendering. And you know why? Because AI bros are mostly tastless coomer bugmen and no tool no matter how powerful can change that. AI will literally be the same as photoshop, a useful tool in the hands of good artists who can use it to speed some processes but nothing more than a toy in the hands of retarded coomers. It's the same as tracing honestly.

>>73176560
Like clockwork >>73176454 . The techbros like it so it must be a scam just like crypto and the metaverse, nevermind the mountain of easily accessible evidence that AI works and the obvious applications, don't believe your lying eyes.

>>73176425
Despite what twitterfags think, using AI is also a skill and you need experience to get good results. It's just a different skillset
These retards aren't any different than the people who think digital art is cheating because "the computer does everything for you"

>>73176359
Maybe because they attract the exact same crowd like flies to shit

>>73176652
you're seething about something you don't understand

>>73176705
NTA but I think AI is fine o gen a lot of grunt art assets. Things like barrels, crates, chairs, and so on. The issue is that you don't really need AI or much of it to generate them procedurally with some variation, and using AI poses the risk of aberrant end results.

>>73176444
>Specifically, we’ll require creators to disclose when they've created altered or synthetic content that is realistic
>r e a l i s t i c
The policy specifically exists so boomers aren't confused by pictures of Joe Biden on a stripper pole. But "go off", senpai, you're bussin and all that.

>>73176749
>using AI is also a skill
Typing a shitpost is technically a skill too, just so you know.

>>73175298
>maybe she is
nah, now I'm sure, she's 100% seething at not being able to ask known riggers to make a model for her without paying their prices, a Vtuber model isn't an essential thing, it's a luxury product in a niche market, you don't need it to stream, she wants it because it brings viewership. not only that, but people make money by being vtubers, so it's like someone crying because they can't buy some very specific and complicated to produce tools to create art
>>73169095
I know (you)'re her and (you)'re /here/, open the wallet up or look for cheaper options you bitch

>>73176412
If you scrimp and save to go to a pricey restaurant, order the $500 steak, get the $500 steak exactly as described in the menu, and then get buyers remorse and ask for your money back because you didn't have jizz your pants the instant it touched your tongue and shit diamonds afterwards then that's on you for having unrealistic expectations. You got exactly what was described and ordered. And no, you throwing a fit about it is not the market deciding the price is to high because you are not their market. You are some guy who had to pinch and save up enough to buy this steak one time and even if you liked it probably wouldn't come back to eat it again until like a year later. Meanwhile there are 3 tables around yours with customers who come in and order this steak every other week. Those are the market for this restaurant and they say that $500 is a reasonable price. If you think the $25 steak from outback steakhouse is just as good then go to outback steakhouse and let the rich people get dooped into paying for $500 steaks.

>>73176852
Took 1 minute to generate those. Took me less than 3 seconds to make this

>>73170847
>saldo
sudaca?

>>73176652
We never claimed AI generation was accessible to literal retards like you.
>>73176675
The fact that AI will be used for evil is certain. It's the losers that try to paint it as not even working well that I'm here to clown on.
>>73176705
Yep you sure did list some games. There will continue to be games with strong art direction even as AI handles more and more of the gruntwork.
And I don't see why random AI artists on pixiv are relevant to the future of AI any more than random tumblr trannies drawing garbage are relevant to traditional art. It will indeed be a tool that requires skill to use well. The vast majority of 'artists' whining about it don't have skill with any tools at all.

>>73176921
tell me how to shitpost myself into being a trillion dollar business please

>>73176749
>using AI is also a skill
My fucking sides lmao.

>>73170580
>did the chargeback claiming the emotes were damaged
The artist of DMCA and take down all vods where that rigging is used and force them to reupload without/cropping out the model. Fight fire with a flamethrower.

>>73176560
Yeah man, home computers are just a fad, the internet is just a fad, online shopping is just a fad, smartphones are just a fad, wireless earbuds are just a fad, I've heard and lived through it all. Sometimes it is not just a fad, especially when it has practical purposes and can be conveniently deployed on a wide scale.

>>73177054
It's not exactly rocket science but you can just pop into /vtai/ and compare the better stuff there to the generic shit most people think of as "AI Art". Nothing is so easy someone can't suck at it.

>>73177054
prompt engineers are already making more money in a month than you make in a year anon :)
if you have such an affinity for writing prompts, you should become one and make mad dosh

>>73177002
You say that as if I asked the AI to generate the floorplans to Area 51. If it can't even write "the" how is it suppose to handle any reasonable job from a human?

>>73177011
Like Theranos? If money is involved then it can't be bullshit, right? lmao

>>73169095
The quality of models has in general gone up exponentially since the inception of vtubing. The amount of work that goes into a good model is insane, a million separated pieces that the artist and rigger both have to go through, not to mention toggles, outfits, etc. You can still get a simple model and rigging for cheap, but if you're looking to get one on par with a popular vtuber, expect to pay for the quality

>>73176518
Yeah, years ago, and still said it was expensive. She's just poor

>>73177233
I thought something MUST be worth the asking price by definition. That's why you people keep screaming "muh free market" to defend riggers churning out rhomboids for tens of thousands.

>>73170499
$250 usd is over half a month of basic pay over here.

>mention AI
>thread instantly turns into seething about AI
lmao thanks for confirming that the "people" who cares about this """drama""" were just artists from twitter, you can now go back to your circlejerk because you're not liked here

>>73177385
How much was a typical i3 laptop back then?
How about today?

>>73177492
I love the potential of AI. I'm an amateur artist myself and I can't wait for the day when I can just draw a few drawings of a character, and AI can fully make a Live2D from it.

>>73177002
>The fact that AI will be used for evil is certain. It's the losers that try to paint it as not even working well that I'm here to clown on.
Because it doesn't do what they claim. If we talk about it as a tool to describe and understand works of media, that can be reversed to regurgitate descriptions into amalgam approximations of works, then it's a different conversation. A different and legitimate conversation. Calling it magic, using misleading terminology, and saying stuff like "it's literally learning how to create art bros" is not a serious conversation.
Besides I didn't say it was evil. I said the dead internet is becoming real. It might be near impossible to use search engines properly in the future, and likewise to use other automated content platforms. Imagine a future where platforms like youtube and twitter have five trillion accounts and only a billion active human users. I don't think that's a future you want to be excited about.

>>73177233
theranos was worth trillions of dollars? that's news to me.

>>73177492
>you're not liked here
And most splits tell you to fuck off outside of your containment thread

>>73177429
Changing the subject now, I see.

>>73177610
Which business do you think is worth a trillion dollars then? Sorry, I assumed it was hyperbole, but clearly some of you are serious about being retarded.

>>73169095
AI WILL REPLACE THEM! JUST YOU WAIT!

>>73177640
I'm just making sure we keep the discussion squared within the principles of our betters, the hallowed artists.

>>73177709
Riggers charge a trillion dollars duh.

>>73177492
Ok Mukesh.

>>73177492
More like
>someone makes a bait thread about art prices
>get btfo
>turns out it's malding AI cucks butthurt that their AI slop will never be recognized as real art

>>73177589
The art comes out of the robot box whether or not your autistic ass agrees with the description of the process.
I really don't understand your weirdo brain. People being a bit loose discussing how AI works creates confusion, but no actually the pattern bot is literally AI? The dead internet is gonna happen, but the people causing it aren't evil? What the fuck is going on up in your noggin?

>>73176490
The dataset they've used as a base for most of the bigger models that blew up 2 years ago or so, LAION 5B, has 5.85 billion images. 100k would probably be unusable. I really doubt anyone would get decent results using exclusively their own images from the ground up.

>>73177869
Artists are so funny because they can't decide whether to play the accosted victim of AI or denigrate it as useless. Watching them flip flop back and forth is fascinating.

>>73177869
Sure hope the prestige of making 'real art' can pay your rent when nobody buys yours anymore, artcuck

>>73177912
I'm not autistic, but you might be. If you can't understand why being misleading might have bad consequences, then of course you don't understand anything.

These narcissists believe the shitty fetish drawings they churn out for money is real art lol

>>73178065
My dude you have spent this entire thread not understanding very basic human language concepts like hyperbole and figurative use of words, there is no doubt you're on the spectrum

>>73170390

>>73173676
No. Holoschizos think that nobody wants to complain about the most popular vtuber in the world ghosting her fans so they came up with their "evil nijjers deflecting" cope which spiraled out of control. Now every thread is a deflection from something in their mind.

>>73178312
I hope this is a falseflag

>>73177709
nvidia

>>73178312
You should kill yourself, I'm not joking.

>>73178312
If leftists weren't the tranny-poisoned disaster they are today they could talk about the implications of AI for labor, media quality, intellectual property and so on without making absolute fools of themselves but here we are

>>73178368
I don't think so. AI cucks are genuinely that dumb.

>>73178333
The sisters are real which still boggles my mind but yeah any bait thread not aimed squarely at Niji gets the NPCs out to claim deflection

>>73177925
They're also labeled, and they were taken without permission. This sort of practice was largely deemed okay because it was purely for academic research purposes. The issues arose when companies used it for commercial purposes. You can use much smaller datasets for more specific things, MNIST, FMNIST, and others are classic datasets with only tens of thousands of images spread over 10 classes. More labels/classes, greater depth, and more data will improve the "degrees of freedom" that the model can represent from the data. You could take older datasets or an explicitly ethically sourced dataset and then add your own art along with various pre-processed variations to get a model for your own work.

>>73178333
yea, yea. whatever you say, nijibrown. 3 threads about the same mundane 2view drama is totally natural lol

>>73178240
I have spent about 40 minutes replying to you on-and-off. When I say that you might be autistic, this is also the kind of thing I'm referring to.

>>73178728
That's not autism, that's unemployment

>>73178031
>>73178041
You will never be a real artist. You will never create anything of value. You will never spend years of hard work and effort just to master a craft and forge something beautiful. You'll just sit there and prompt words just to coom to the first slop amalgamation that vaguely reminds you of some anime tiddies. You will die like you lived, a lazy and miserable bugman filled with hatred towards those who accomplished something. Cope and seethe.

>>73178656
The idea of needing permission for training AI with someone's art got the kibosh with the ruling that AI output is not subject to copyright. Something that is not possible to own is not possible to steal.

>>73178767
Nah, to be fair to him even if he really has spend the entire thread arguing with people thinking they're all the same, it is a Sunday.

>>73178435
Hit a little too close to home, eh?

>>73178854
Cry about it

>>73178860
That is incorrect. You cannot parse people's work and scrub it of copyright. If that was true then copyright would fail even for big corporations. You're misinterpreting it, either on purpose, or because you didn't think it through. The dataset was explicitly released only for research. The work is still copyrighted and was distributed in a way that violates copyright, and used in a way that violates copyright. The reason the output comes out without a copyright is because it was not a result of a creative process. In the same way that Google search results are not subject to copyright, but the linked media is.

>>73177589
For as forward thinking and enlightened as AI evangelists like to think they are, the fact they're so willfully ignorant of these concerns that'd be obvious to anyone with an above room temperature IQ really exposes them. For every one person using AI for some purpose that'd be worth giving half a shit about, you have about 10,000 worthless amoebas like pic related flooding the internet with absolute garbage around the clock.

>>73178865
Dumb nigger, I don't care about AI. You posted a s*yjak meme, go back or neck yourself.

>>73178863
The way you can tell I was serious about the unemployment is that didn't even occur to me

>>73169095
No she does not. If she wants the same quality people got for 250$ she is welcome to find someone to create her a model for that price. Except now most models have mode layers and details in a single eye compared to what the older models had.
The quality of designs and how much back and forth between the artist and tuber is tolerated also went up.
The # of toggles models have is insane as well. Compared to the olden 250$ models that never even heard what a toggle was.

If you look at the pricing, think about it. that would buy you not even 20 hours of minimum wage work. Do you think someone can pull a model out of their ass in less than 20 hours?

>>73178854
Extremely funny that you think we're envious of the prestige afforded to twitter whiners who have to draw furry porn because they don't have the skill to get real work.
PS I prefer music anyway, drawing is a boring art

>>73175769

>>73179027
> You cannot parse people's work and scrub it of copyright
You are confused. No one can stop you from reproducing images. Didney can't take your notebook because you drew Mickey in it. You can seethe all you like but people can use anyone's art they like for AI models.

Some companies were trying to go the route of training AI models on in house work but there's no legitimate reason to do that now as the result couldn't be copyrighted either. OTOH if someone wants to use AI to supplement their own work, that is transformative and almost certainly subject to fair use, so there's no reason to autistically avoid "stealing" there either.

>>73179027
You fags would have a case if it was just literally tracing shit, but that's not what's happening. AI creates works that you would just say were referenced or inspired from another artist had they been created by hand. You wouldn't call it stealing.

I'm an artist, I draw because I like art and I enjoy making fan art of my oshi
I appreciate AI because it gives me even more fan art of my oshi
the seething faggots in this thread aren't real artists, they draw for money. they're just grifters.

>>73179128
Yep, it sounds less impressive when you say it just remixes and regurgitates a mix of fanfics and comment sections back at you.

>>73179128
Who the fuck cares you ugly gay retard. If it sucks people will just ignore it, if it's good then people will buy it.

Whoever wrote that was clearly just seething about muh right wing chud politics had no real interest in the ai thing. Had it been ai slop that was pushing pro troon propaganda or conspiracies about Trump wanting to create minority death camps that author would not have decided to shine a spotlight on it.

Buy a rope for November, btw.

>>73179266
I can joke around. You're just not very funny, I'm funnier because supposedly I'm too dense to pick up on things. Herpidy derp.

>>73179128
>>73179684
Artists discover sturgeon's law and decide it's a big own
Don't seem to realize that it applies equally to art itself

>>73179376
>the prestige
No one cares about prestige, it's the joy of being an artisan. Spending hours upon hours creating something that requires effort. Creating beauty. Shaping your ideas into reality.
>muh real work
Who gives a fuck, beats being a corporate cuck whose job involves making powerpoints to a senile boomer. Hell you're in a place about chuubas, the top ones make more money than a surgeon by playing vidya online.

>>73179902
>Spending hours upon hours creating something that requires effort. Creating beauty. Shaping your ideas into reality
AI can't take that away from anyone. If that was what artists cared about they wouldn't be seething about AI as hard as you are now.

>>73179902
Then you have no reason to care about AI
Twitter artists are seething about AI because they don't actually enjoy drawing, they just want to get money

>>73180066
(also for what it's worth I meant real work as an artist, even making some gay wolves for a furry to cum to is a big step up from what bullshit jobs like marketers and stock traders contribute to society)

>>73179404
They can. If you publish your work and it's derivative they can sue you.
>>73179422
No, AI models do not do anything like that. They regenerate the input based on the output labels. It goes in reverse, and understandably the original work is usually no longer fully represented by the model anymore. If you want to make an analogy then it's as if you were creating a collage of copyrighted works or as if you were applying filters over and over again. The question you're hoping to arguing for is at what point have you cut up and collaged the work so much, or applied the filters so much, that it is no longer a derivative of existing works. You would be arguing that the AI model does this. However, whether or not there is an argument that the original work is still substantially represented in the output, you can't make the argument that it was created by you, the AI, or anything with personhood. Hence it's not copyrightable until you have altered it significantly yourself. Not that the issue of the original creator making a claim is still unresolved and has to be determined on a case-by-case basis. On the other hand, the creators of the model still made the copyright violation, and are still liable.
Keep in mind that this is about the current situation. It is going to change in all likelihood, but probably because large corporations will take action to protect their own works from AI copyright scrubbers that you fantasize about. It could very well end up in a situation that neither you nor small artists want, because obviously no lawmaker cares about artists, just corporations.

>>73180066
I don't give a fuck about AI shit. Most of my concerns come for the fact that it was built actively stealing art from others and making a bad mashup of it. That said AI cucks in this thread are wishing death to artists and praying for AI to steal their jobs. And even if you don't care about prestige being able to make a living through art is a way to have more time for it.

>>73180274
I wished death to artists before AI was even a thing, I'm just glad the instrument of their destruction is here

>>73179128
Man that's my main problem with AI. I couldn't care less about it making art or automating certain tasks, but it's 100% going to destroy the internet. I'm imagining the internet 5-10 years from now, and it's going to be completely unusable from being flooded by AI bots. It's already a problem now, imagine how much worse it's going to be in the future.

>>73180265
>Not that the issue of the original creator making a claim
Note*

>jaknigger
christ almighty

>>73180414
I know, I was disturbed when I saw it too.

>>73180265
You can't COMMERCIALLY publish works by the AI WITHOUT transformative application. You can generate and make freely available anything you damn well wish. And any culpability for attempting to commercially publish a wholesale work of the AI is on the publisher, the people behind the AI are under no obligation to train the AI "cleanly" as the outputs belong to God, not man.

>>73179440
Based, the only sensible take. The AI derangement syndrome is mostly bandwagoning xitter autists that jump from one political cause to the next without actually understanding anything, ever. Mostly kids too.

The people that are actually leading the deranged masses know exactly what they're doing though. It's all about desperately trying to maintain control.

>>73180399
That's the stuff that people should actually be scared of and rallying against. Whining about art instead is yet another example of the gaping void of idiocy and trannies we have on the internet where a left wing should be

>>73179440
You're not an artist. And one of the things I hate the most about AI shit is having every art tag filled with dogshit slop because AI cucks are too retarded to properly tag their vomit.

>>73180725
>You're not an artist
according to who?

>>73180770
Twxttxr

>>73180482
>people replied to it unironically
they need to be 3-day'd

>>73180512
That is incorrect. You cannot steal the work of a competitor and then release it to the public non-commercially. Copyright is awarded to the individual that created the work. The exception is a work for hire contract that transfers all rights of the work from the creator to somebody else, or a corporation. Likewise, AI models are not actually copyright scrubbers as you seem to presume they are. You cannot redistribute the work in any capacity without explicit permission. It's often not enforced, for things people don't really care about, like reposting a picture here. The difference is caring or not, and they care about AI model misuse of their work.

>>73180770
According to anyone with any sense of taste wanting to see their timeline filled with actual art instead of AI shit.

>>73180909
learn to read

>>73179157
Gonna post more jaks and frogs on your anime board and there's nothing you can do about it faggot

for future reference, keep in mind that nijisharts are the exact same people seething about AI all day(virtue signaling kpop twitter mutts)

>>73180961
Damn you're so cool and edgy. I'm sure your parents are very proud of you.