/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>66452150
Eh, my oshi in Advent but even I know no one would have gotten the same amount of clout Gura amassed in those early years.

>>66452239
Bijou absolutely would have, her main appealing factors to the JP audience were her being as loli and her being cute, her main appeal to the west was her shit posting nature. Her being a certified streaming machine would have been a huge hit too.

>>66452342
WHo would win
> certified streaming machine
> A

>>66452239
If Fuwamoco debuted in Hololive in 2020 with the same designs they have now, with full blast pandemic buff and early EN vtubing buff, they'd have ten fucking million subscribers by now.

>>66452150
I can agree with that one for the most part, but I think Mori and Gura are the genuine outliers in Myth. They would have been super successful anytime and anywhere (just maybe not as successful as they currently are).

Here’s my hot take: If Ironmouse wasn’t sick she’d be a 3 view indie at best.

>>66452502
Ironmouse is constantly and consistently lifted up by Conner. It's like when an older brother lifts up his younger sister so she can access the cookie jar on the top shelf.

>>66452502
ngl you may have a point with mousey.

>>66452430
A, do not even kid yourself. There was no one in either gen or in western vtubing during that year that could have compared to her. Even Ironmouse would dogeza to her in 2020 if she could without connor eyeing her.

>>66452150
Hmm...I kinda wanna say...These past couple months have been amazing for Vtubing. It wasn't just the twins, but the roach as well, and even a bit before that with Henya. It just feels like we've been eating real good.

VOMS has fucking awful designs.

Male chuubas and babinikus should not be allowed.

Tribalfagging is lame when you consider there has to be a market for everything, otherwise it would make vtubers boring at a fast pace.

The concept of vtubing has been eternally crippled in the west by Hololive's domination. What should be a very broad medium with multiple sub-genres has basically adhered to only one or two thanks to the extremely limited interpretation of it that Hololive brings to the table. Yes, indies are constantly innovating, but a depressingly large amount of people already have an unshakeable view of what vtubing is all about, and it isn't what indies are doing.
Nijisanji is a shitshow internally and in general, but conceptually they are a lot less limiting in what the medium can be and the western sphere would reflect that if they were the ones to get big in 2020 instead of Myth.

>>66454179
>Kurosanji
>Better if they succeeded
I wonder who could possibly be behind this post

>>66452150
I can't for the life of me see the appeal with the moth. She's came off as pretenscious since her Niji debut, the hi honey shtick was irritating, and her PL prior to niji is one of the worst of any corpo chuuba. To top it all off her current model is uncanny.

The only thing I liked about her was the Niji model, and that's long gone now. Idk it feels like most anons here only like her as a one up to a black company.

If you use the term "graduating" when you're not part of a company that larps as Idols (iow if you're not from Hololive) then you should just be shot. You're not graduating. You're quitting. Stop trying to "fit in" it's fucking whack. Use normal words like a normal person.

>>66454276
Nijisanji is an abysmal company that doesn't treat its talent with the respect they deserve, but its content is undeniably more varied than Hololive. In the alternate reality where they were the ones to take off in 2020 in the west, they wouldn't have even needed to survive. They just needed to survive long enough to inspire the culture to be the varied juggernaut that NijiJP is.

>>66452150
Advent stream but that's it. There's no spark like myth. People who compare bijou and gura are especially retarded.

>>66454538
>In the alternate reality where they were the ones to take off in 2020 in the west, they wouldn't have even needed to survive. They just needed to survive long enough to inspire the culture to be the varied juggernaut that NijiJP is.
In the alternate reality where they were the ones to take of in 2020 they would still fail because its anycolor
We know this because outside the main branch all other branches and projects anycolor did failed beyond being salvagable ( nijiIN, nijiID, nijiCN, nijiTW, nijjiKR, yumenographia ) despite being the pioneers of their respective area
Hell if nijiEN was actually the one that took off theres no doubt that they would have gotten nijiID levels of numbers

>>66452150
>If advent released at the time of Myth it would have been as or more successful than myth, the only reason Myth is statistically more successful was because of when Myth came about.
This isn't even a "jot take" this is just obvious knowledge

Hot take:
Talent doesn't exist.
Like even with dancing involved in this community, it's mediocre at best compared to actual skills.

Another hot take:
Hot people shouldn't be vtubers. It defeats the purpose of vtubing if youre not fat and ugly and have the outside personality of a Stacy but no one, not even your own cells want to date you.

Last Hot take:
Vtubers that do flesh reveal streams make my penis invert itself in a vagina, you could do some interesting 3d style animation instead with your character, instead you want to show me skin and act embarrassed, makes me start liking man ngl.

This board should never have been created, ENfags should never have been introduced to this medium.

>>66452150
It's a tragedy that some of the most popular en vtubers are owned by Japanese corpos. Everything would be so much better, and talents would a lot happier if Japanese perm autism wasn't a concern.

Hot take: Phase connect is kino and its main detractors are jealous 2views who've roped in NPCs on this board into irrationally hating their talents.

>>66455149
The average Autist opinion

>>66454815
No, bijou streams a lot and she spams unfunny zoomer memes, don't you see it's exactly the same thing people love gura for?
things said only by the utterly insane or people who have never actually watched gura and think that her quality can be substituted by quantity of streaming
and before you say anythign yes, i wish gura streamed more, but that is literally it, i wish GURA streamed more, who cares how much someone else that doesn't have her spark or her talent streams, no offense to bijou

>>66452150
Female vtubers have brought nothing but negativity, toxicity and fostered a culture of hyper coomer otaku obsessiveness that has turned the community into a cesspool of drama and hate. Vtubing, as a community, would be several degrees healthier if female vtubers did not exist and were supplanted early on by male vtubers. This was obviously never going to be possible considering heterosexual men pretty much created this industry to look at anime girls but things would be better if they did. Female vtubers, like all women, bring absolutely zilch to the table

>>66452150
Hot take: Gura is the most successful streamer in existence. Not because she streams a bunch, or for super long, but because she doesn't even need to stream to remain relevant.

>>66455411
Gura hasn't been a quality streamer for about 2 years. You're high on nostalgia and cope if you ever think that gura of 2020 and 2021 is the same gura of the current day.

>>66455149
This but Vshojo.

>>66452150
I don't even like Calli, but she and Gura are unique talents relative to anything Advent has to offer. Rissa and Biboo don't even come close to comparing.

Otherwise I'd agree, Shiori is a more entertaining gook than Ina, and FWMC would have run the EN vtubing scene if they debuted in 2020.

>>66455664
Vshojo unironically became decent when Nyanners, Silver, and Veibae left. They were fucking insufferable and the company has improved so much since then

>>66455617
Yes, that is true, which is why i don't watch any other vtuber, i'd rather be grinding at work for when my wife is back then watch worthless mass produced slop, where the entire content is just person playing game that was released 5-15 years ago and occasionally calling out a superchat
Gura was (and will be again if she ever comes back) better than the rest. Her not streaming doesn't mean my standards are somehow going to disappear, so I don't understand how what you said relates whatsoever to anything in my post
No offense meant to bijou though, she correctly identified a niche that en needed filled and she's doing it perfectly, it's just that that niche is for 15 year olds with no jobs or life experience so not my cup of tea
In that sense FWMC is significantly closer to what I'd enjoy

>>66455752
I remember when they left because Henya was hired on. They were all no doubt some of the absolute cunts who harrassed her before she reincarnated.

>>66455896
I understand your point, I'm just saying that the era of Myth kino is completely and entirely bygone. Gura isn't going to go back to what she used to be. I absolutely lament this and wish that we could turn back time. But at the same time, we can recognize this as a possibility for something good. Just as the fall of Kizuna brought a new beginning, gura letting the reigns go may give a chance for someone new and bright.

>>66456057
Nyanners and Veibae have especially vile personalities. Im surprised anyone of willing to associate with Nyanners after what she's done in the past. And no, just because it was a long time ago doesn't mean she's changed.

>>66456258
I get what you mean. I see something shining real bright.

Ame is my oshi forever, and i still smile when i see that she is live. When i see people who say they used to be teammates but left after “improve yourself.” i laugh, they are not improved and are inferior.

>>66456569
>Getting mad at the equivalent of someone saying to touch grass
I never understood this level of mental illness

>>66455752
Now we just need Froot out.

It didn't take long for this thread to turn into the insufferable white knight thread. Take your copium to your generals.

>>66452150
No, because you don't know what Advent in 2020 even looks like faggot. It's a stupid comparison, half of them didn't even apply.
That's the thing about Myth, they were already great and knew exactly their game in 2020 with literally 0 support. Advent is great in 2023 with a paved road of 3 years behind them, 3 years of HoloEN to learn what works and what doesn't, that's a fucking eternity in vtubing time.
In any case this is Holo vs Holo garbage and you should kill yourself. Myth love, Promise love, Advent love.

ESG and Niji-like shareholders will ruin JP branch
>Unconsulted Holo Summer MV
>HLZTL
>DEV_IS
more will come

>>66452150
That's not a hot take
It's the correct take

>>66454815
Exactly. Bijou did everything Gura did in her entire time with Hololive but with more sovl
>>66455411
I already moved onto Fuwamoco. Give up, Chumbie

>>66454179
Western vtubing was crippled the second it came out and twitter femcels panicked and identified it as a threat to all woman kind. Online interaction is critical to vtubing and once it hit western shores the twitter clique immediately identified it as unacceptable content/behaviour. Ironically, if it had started with male vtubers it may have cushioned the blow. Not that it matters, Hololive did the next best thing and started better integration of western and eastern audiences with bilingual talents.

>>66452150
>VTuber hot takes
>Is all about Hololive
Nijisister find a different way to cope all graduations

>>66457133
Exactly how has Myth 'paved the road' for Advent? Anime girls and vtubers didn't start with Myth. They didn't pioneer shit.

>>66454179
>indies are constantly innovating, but a depressingly large amount of people already have an unshakeable view of what vtubing is all about
Welcome to arts and entertainment. You'd see virtually the same shit in every medium and genre. I'd be more surprised if that wasn't a thing in vtubing

Strong competent management leads to a better streams.
In order to make the best product, most creatives needs someone to tell them their ideas are not up to snuff and need more work, and be made aware of and reminded of common mistakes made by prior people in the same field.
Shitty managers can poison the view of the whole job, but we as customers are better off with having good and shitty managers than no managers at all.
As an example, really wish there was someone above Henya who could tell her to turn off TTS unless or until it is heavily modded.

>>66452150
Anyone who believes that Zentreya is female is in denial.

>>66456911
>we
Ok ant

>>66457677
Them along with management made a shit ton of mistakes and learned from it. No matter how much you want to embelish Advent as the best gen ever debuted, the fact that you have another EN gen is because of Myth success. They'll always be recognized as the gen that gave western vtubing more eyes

>>66457677
Myth crawled so Advent could run. That's a fact

>>66458189
>>66458137
They were the novelties that benefitted from the pandemic buff. You can make arguments for Gura and Calli but no one would give a shit about Ina, Kiara or Ame if they debuted now.

>>66452150
>If advent released at the time of Myth it would have been as or more successful than myth
No, because some advent girls were outright rejected the first time they applied.

Oshi-culture is perfectly fine, and it helps people actually care about their oshi. Its the biggest reason why hololive stays relevant

Voice packs are some of the best pieces of merch despite how often cover releases them. Nijisanji should take notes with this, instead of just the same three acrylic package shit

NijiEN was never good, and was already shit the moment it started to debut, even with Pomu

Male vtubers cannot work unless they try to actually be funny first. The moment they stop trying to be funny, they fall apart.

Vshojo wouldn't be absolutely garbage if their main selling points weren't reaction videos and porn jokes. Please read the first one because that is worse than overused porn jokes.

Pippa has the worst vtuber fans of anyone, even worse than Kuzuha and Gura.

Bijou is what Gura should've been from the start

>>66458293
>They were the novelties benefitted from the pandemic buff
And Advent benefitted from Myth success.

>>66452150
Marine is too slutty for Hololive.

Advent pairs up well with Myth in direct comparisons.
Nerissa and Mori, tall, music, socially awkward "losers". Nerissa leaning into the horny vs Calli insisting all women are men and being a wigger is equally obnoxious.
Biboo and Ame, meme queens with early impact and enduring memes based around retard noises. Both started as the one I thought I'd enjoy most but eventually I drifted away (though I still enjoy both, retard noises are funny).
Fuwamoco and Gura/Ina. One is a hyperactive washboard with bratty tendencies that is beloved in general and the other is a bit of wiser, older sister type that makes everyone horny. They even have the dynamic where one discourages the horny while the other plays it up. Most successful of there gen. Ended up being the one I watched the most. One is clearly more popular than the other but it ever hurt their dynamic.
Shiori and Kiara. Suffered the worst of the "worst fanbase" debuff, no one wanted anything to do with them early on primarily because of the horny coomers flocking to them. Hard working and trying to do something a bit different to what the others were. Ended up warming up to them over time, but it's best to keep the chat closed while doing so. Despite their general attitudes, they're surprisingly unicorn friendly.
It's still hard to compare them as they are now, myth had so much more resources to work with due to their explosive success. I don't know how successful Advent would have been, they have less exciting visual designs. Their rather generic colour palettes makes them stick out less and makes it easy to sweep past them in the wider vtubing thumbnail competition. Fuwamoco in particular, they're considered gold now when compared against prime Myth, but the high energy Bau Bau on a virgin english market during lockdown could have just as easily been off putting. Shiori would have been fine, she knows she is marketing towards coomers and they have a relatively consistent market value. Biboo and Nerissa would have been the wild cards, but Mori and Ame (at least early on) were major players. Mori hit the ground running with her music shit (I still enjoy RIP) and Ame really push that 3D stuff combined with gremlin mode via smolwatson. I love Nerissa but her music is fairly generic anime covers. Biboo remains to be seen, she needs to avoid falling into the classic trap of stagnation with her antics.

>>66452150
The fanbase, especially hololive and nijisanji, has an exceedingly large tranny problem. The yurifag to tranny pipeline is very much real and functional. Most trannies, like most otakus, graduate from animeslop to, eventually, vtuberslop. Here, many of these troons may be indistinguishable from hardcore male idolfans or even unicorns, considering many of them are vehemently anti-male(owing to their own slef hating tendencies) and fetishize lesbian dynamics, especially in a sexual context. The biggest coomers I ever saw on twitter were agp trannies jerking it to yuri hentai. The most appropriate response here is to make the space and community, specifically hololive and nijisanji, more unwelcoming to trannies of all flavors and encourage their exodus towards indies who can pander to them at the periphery.

>>66458293
>no one would give a shit about Ina, Kiara or Ame if they debuted now
Massive adventcuck cope

>>66458293
Surely Advent's succes can only be credited to themselves and not because they're part of hololive and the EN branch right?

>>66457677
>Anime girls and vtubers didn't start with Myth.
I never said that, but it's still going through 3 years without any support whatsoever which is an eternity in western vtubing. What I'm trying to say is that Myth was exactly what Hololive needed in 2020, and Advent is exactly what Hololive needed in 2023. That's literally what the audition process is for, it's the best thing about Cover.

Hot take: FWMC are heavily overrated

Hololive is as good as it is because of its walled garden nature. The rules and limitations and keeping everything (mostly) contained within the company is what made it good.
Evidence: Coco and Rushia. The best of the best, the top of the entire company. Now they are nobodies. Hololive is Hololive because of the collective. People say they will follow their oshi but these two are evidence that Hololive made them good, not the other way around

>>66459772
Counterpoint: rushia was always a ticking timebomb and only worked because Sankisei kept the tard wrangler on her at all times.

>>66452150
Here's a real hot take, one about /vt/ itself

Alot of anons simply attribute the board to being created as a result of /hlgg/ becoming too huge for /jp/, but I think it was made for a reason that has nothing to do with vtubing. At the time there was a mod on /v/ who was notorious for allowing and even making internet celebrity threads like dunky or vinesauce, he even made a post under the mod tag talking about how he kept trying to push for staff to make an e-celeb board. According to leaks he was also one of the highest ranking admins too, so my theory is he worked with shark meido "the infamous /jp/ mod who loved vtubers" to push for /vt/ to get made.

Not for the fact that /v/ mod gave any kind of shit about chuubas, but as a stepping stone into getting /eceleb/ to become a reality. The fact that /v/ mod post happened a month before /vt/ came to be supports that theory.
In case you can't tell almost 4 years later it didn't work

>>66460272
Sharkmeido was a fucking faggot and caused /hlg/ to deteriorate into what it is now.

>>66459303
Would you watch current Ina based on her master plan of doing 7 rawing streams in a row, taking a break, then coming back to do 7 Pikmin 4 streams.

>>66460176
That's not a counterpoint, you're just reinforcing my entire point? That the limitations and rules and tard wrangling they all get is what makes the company work?

>>66460462
*drawing

>>66460462
>>66460613
I'd watch her if she did 7 rawing streams, yes.

>>66452681
>Older brother
sounds incestuous

>>66452150
Equal but opposite take:
If Myth released today, at least 3/5 of them would be in latest NijiEn wave numbers now.

>>66460855
>at least 3/5 of them would be in latest NijiEn wave numbers now.
You mean Ina, Kiara and Ame.

>>66455543
Gura is like Mickey, an icon, a brand. Disney doesn't need to drop anything but merch for the little sucker for people to snap up, and Gura is the same.

Gura isn't lazy or entitled or ungrateful or whatever. She's mentally exhausted and probably psychiatrically unwell due to being the face and mascot of an entire company when all she wanted to do was be an anime girl streamer

The traditional corporate structure in vtubing as exemplified by Hololive and others is a net negative for the industry.

The reason small corpos remain small in EN is because they erroneously follow the JP template, which is not compatible with the values of the EN scene.

The future of vtubing lies in freedom and talent control. This is how all other creative fields operate. Creativity cannot survive in a controlled environment.

>>66460955
Mickey hasn't even had a proper show since the 2010's.

>>66461132
That poor girl...

>>66452150
Advent members are all either unwatchably boring or unwatchably cringe.

>>66460462
>7 rawing streams in a row, taking a break
This wouldn't happen because she would be a 6 month old vtuber.

Reasonable take: Adventroons are obnoxious

>>66454538
>but its content is undeniably more varied than Hololive
and yet its still shit because their talents cant carry it. The koshien is something that hololive doesn't do, and its insanely boring because they can just give Kuzuha and Mito Ohtani and Yamamoto stats.

>>66461173
I hadn't really put any thought to this but I agree. I can't even watch debut streams anymore cause I'm sick of seeing the same copypasted myspace profile review ad nauseum.

>>66460462
>Would you watch current Ina based on her master plan of doing 7 rawing streams in a row, taking a break, then coming back to do 7 Pikmin 4 streams.
No, would I watch year 1 Ina or Ame over any Advent? Yes.
Kiara was never my cup of tea so there's that

>>66460462
Yes, I would. Now stop creating scenarios about your oshi being the most popular one in your head and enjoy the fucking content. It's not by disrespecting the older generations that you'll make yourself a place in the community.

Hololive and all of vtubing was built on the back of Activ8's success with Kizuna Ai

>>66452239
Here's my take for sub count if Advent were in place of Myth today:
Shiori: 1.3 million
Nerissa: 1.5 million (no KFP bump or support)
Bijou: 1.7 million
FWMC: 2.0 million (would of had to compete more with rising Korone)

Advent is not as forward as Myth in asserting themselves and with no EN support things would be a lot harder for them then it is today.

>>66452150
I'm going to need people to stop trying to force the comparison of Gura and Bijou, they are nothing alike. Having a loli model doesn't make you Gura, they have their own qualities

>>66460272
You are schizo anon. /vt/ got made because we angered the biggest seething autistic faggot neckbeards on the whole site by knocking off their shitty 1 post a day 2hu threads from their trash board.

>>66452694
yeah being sick makes it so that it's easier for people to "justify" her choosing to be a vtuber than fleshtuber and the more people talk shit about a sick girl, the more people will defend them and propel them to stardom. Everyone likes to feel like they are doing a good thing

>>66461132
>being the face and mascot of an entire company
Honestly you might be right about her being mentally exhausted because you're the most retarded fan base in all the company and she just has to deal with it, the moments chumbuds mass suicide is the moment she can happily return to streaming.

>>66466047
All she has to do is show up a few times a week to play video games and make baby noises. She doesn't "deal" with chumbies, she never even read their fucking supas.

>>66456433
She need alot of sing lessons before

>>66454179
>thanks to the extremely limited interpretation of it that Hololive brings to the table.
That's not Hololive's fault, that's the fault of uncreative opportunists/corporations/attentionwhores who can't see past their own noses. They were always going to copy Hololive, not just because they want the money, but because they're incapable of inventing anything original. It doesn't matter that the idol format is technically a niche, and that niche is now pretty saturated, because they don't see it as one. They think that's the limit of what vtubing is. So they're just going to keep digging down into it until someone at a major corpo spontaneously develops self-awareness, takes a step back to look at the broader picture, and profits by filling a new niche. Then everyone else will copy that one too.

Only twitter tranies care about "unique" and "creative" vtubing
the peak of vtubing is a pure cute girl

>>66467667
>the peak of vtubing is a pure cute girl
So not a single vtuber

>>66459290
That's not really a hot take, it's well known fact that troons are part of the wider internet community, have less real life responsibilities and near endless spare time and activily seek positions of power in preexisiting communities to play out their power fantasies (likely due to a percieved lack of control of their real life situations). It's pretty much standard rule to not acknowledge the trans community and allow the fanbase to take care of gate keeping to give the company plausible deniability. Hololive followed that example famously with Omega, all he had to do was not let us know he was there and what ever his master plan was probably would have worked. But that's not the point, he had to let us know he was there, he wanted you to watch Hololive rot under his influence (which ended up imploding due to the gatekeeping protocol). Hell, even with wider vtubing. Henya coming back was great to most of us because it was a triumph over social media bullying of talents, but inadvertently also acted as a slap in the face of troon infiltration of the vtubing scene (failure to black mark a talent, to this day the reflection of the black mark is felt with troon sympathisers desperately trying to memory hole their attempt to take credit for Pikamee'a graduation). Even Naynner's exit from vshojo, move to independence then obtaining of a partner works in this regard. She is historically a famous pro-troon advocate (her original community fell apart when she tried to transition to irl ethot, started deleting her old content and finally shilling troon charities on her Facebook group). She even cut a lot of her antimale sentiments now that she's finally had sex.

>>66452502
Ok the problem with this was that she was literally a 2-3 view for like 4 years and she was at her sickest the whole time.

Also ignoring that literally every hololive and niji member (barring gura) would be a 2 view if not for their org

bijou is uninteresting and unentertaining. she is carried by brand + loli buff and pedos have such low standards that they accept her anyways
cover should stop hiring en lolis who can't play their keyfabe without appearing as a grifting tourist who only wants to collect pedobucks. I can only listen to the overly shrill fake voice for so long. Compare Bijou to Luna/Laplus, the difference is night and day.

I think the "idol" thing is forced and the worst part of vtubing culture. Idol cuture sucks and I dont know why people want it.

>>66466923
It's not literally their fault in terms of intention. They're a company, and any company would want to be at the top of their field. But they were thrust into the limelight thanks to a combination of factors that are impossible to recreate, and for better or worse they are the golden standard that everyone else seeks to copy, and the ones that don't fit into that tightly-constructed box don't "count" as vtubers to those that want to gatekeep. It's the equivalent of both anime fans and non-fans thinking shounen is the only genre out there, but the medium is big enough to account for all tastes. Unlike in Japan, all tastes are not being accounted for in the field of vtubing in the west primarily because of the preconceptions of both the audience and the creators.

>>66464782
>compete with Korone
Just because they're all dogs?
>Advent is not as forward as Myth in asserting themselves
Gura became popular despite never asserting herself, FWMC would've taken every opportunity to keep riding the early hype.

>>66470613
>Idol culture sucks
This board is the one that convinced me gatekeeping is good and necessary.

I liek Botan she is kitty.

>>66470613
Idol stuff is very fun.

>>66452342
If you know her PL, Bijou was pretty much a Gura wannabe. That said, Bijou is now filling the void Gura has left. Gura is too burnt out to stream like she used to, and Bijou has filled that niche well

As much as I'd like to be in favour of Advent, "A", being able to completely ignore cancel attempts, and be fully closed to outside collabs propelled Gura. Mori also had her gap moe and rap.
Now let's see Advent. Would Nerissa have considered Holo before Kiara? FWMC were still trying IRL, Shiori unironically was still too menhera for her own good (Ailene situation didn't help), and Bijou would fold or try to answer antis.

>>66472635
To be fair, Bijou is what Gura SHOULD have been from the start.

VERY few vtubers are actually legit entertaining streamers, naturally entertaining ppl like Kuzuha and Pekora are the rare ones and their fame is deserved, most everyone else is flat boring by comparison and only carried by branding.

On that topic vtuber concepts are all so corny, you're not really doing anything so magical to begin with so dont make yourself so insanely high concept, shit is literally perfected with JKGumi in 2019

>>66452150
Where's the Advent version of this? and joking aside, Ame has actually contributed a lot to Myth. Oh wait I forget that Advent is an incompetent gen that panders to TikTok tourist scum

>>66452150
this is a shit take not hot take

>>66473738
>uniting en and jp through holotalk

>>66473738
It's okay gura we know you're salty about bijou. No need to lash out

Hololive's number one asset is the idol larp. If they ever loosen that it's over.

I liked Enna alot around her debut, and still think she has some really good traits you'd find in a vtuber:
>Extremly good design IMO
>One of the best singing voices out there
>was able to actually have good banter with chat early on
>Covers and concerts were top quality, with the higurashi one still being one of my all time favorites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXcPjY0516U

She really had potential to be one of the greats IMO, her nasally voice can be rough but i think she could have been really good as a holo

But all that means jack shit at the end when she's proven time and time again of shitty of a person she is. I dropped her after the first Kyo collab and haven't watched since. What a waste of potential.

>>66452342
Fuck no, Gura was already popular before joining Hololive, it was a snowball effect, 3 million people didn't show up because she said "a", they showed up because they recognized her.

>>66454179
I am on Pippa with this one, I am glad Hololive is what comes to mind when it comes to vtubers in the west.Imagine if it was like furries, with only the worst most disgusting and horniest thing coming to mind whenever anybody mentions vtubers.

>>66452150
Myth has a few irreplaceable figures. Naysayers seethe, but you simply can't replace Mori (rap within a Jpop-dominated space was huge), Ame (creatividad, behind-the-scenes tech), or Gura (perfect combo of silly/meme/singing ability).

Advent has unique players, but were they the 1st of their branch, the only one I seeing being absolutely irreplaceable is FuwaMoco for being the EN-JP bridge + twin uniqueness. Nerissa comes close with being a singing demon making covers that don't miss, but is simply lacking in originals

Biboo is a streaming machine but not a gura replacement. Given the vtubing age demographic, Biboo's zoomer humor just doesn't hit like Gura's.

>>66452502
Agree with your first point, tho Mori would've taken an additional 5-10 years to get where she is now. Even without the exposure factor, before Hololive, she was juggling multiple jobs to pay rent and simply couldn't dedicate as much time to music as she does now.

>>66470041
Not a hot take, that's truth
Though, I will say, it's nice to have a streaming monster to complement Kaela. Their friendship is nice.

>>66470041
Bijou is on the same level as Luna. You’ll learn in due time

>>66472635
Gura still managed to knee cap her growth though.

>>66470041
are you calling biboo a bigger grifter than fucking rap chan?

Biboo’s commitment to keeping her channel G-rated is a huge limiting factor. Gura has more comedic range and doesn’t hold back the way Biboo does.

>>66452150
I got a better question, which of Advant would be most likely to pull a Mori where they start out as a strong 5 view, before they keep committing yabs to the point they need to leech off the newer gens?

Gura only got as many subs as she did because the zhangs were botting her to turn JP and EN against each other in their quest for destroying hololive.

Vtubering has been gutted, skinned and watered down to the point meaning a still or animated avatar.
And boy does it show. Every low self-esteem half baked would be streamer who wouldn't of even clicked the 'start stream button' now bloats the Vtuber category on every platform because they put up a model or literal 2D pic on screen and that makes them a "Vtuber" now.

>>66452150
pretty much anyone would be succesful in Myth's position, yes.

zentreya might be the most overrated vtuber to ever exist
mousey would be nothing without the fleshies she's latched onto
gura and biboo are barely anything alike, having similar interests does not equal to having the same personality
kronii might be the worst holoEN
comparing fwmc to holoJP is retarded and it only shows how little you know about the holoJP branch, irys shares some of her style and behavior with JPs too and I don't see anyone gawking on her cock for that
pandering to 4chan and abusing 4chan lingo as a vtuber is fucking retarded and cheap
collabing with males says nothing about your overall quality as a vtuber, there is genuinely objectively nothing wrong with that
nijiEN was already a shitshow before zaion
magni and vesper were never a good fit for cover corp
outside of her good game choices nina was pretty much the same shit as her peers
"idol culture" in vtubing is a good thing and twitter and this board distorted the fuck out of its meaning

Based on discussions from the other day, I believe more unwelcome changes are coming for the two public Vtubing companies in order to ensure profitability stays up from shareholders who aren't yet very demanding yet but which are probably reaching a breaking point soon. This might happen either mid 2024 or so and could also be exacerbated by external economic factors. There might even be a Vtubing crash from the corporate side, but I don't see that happening until one of the dominos fall. Could be from Nijisanji's recent overseas branch issues eventually reaching a full on boil or eventually Holoearth not succeeding of which there is a high chance of happening.

>>66453570
is that really a hot take, tho? why do you think so many people prefer Henya to her PL? she's doing mostly the same stuff she did before, but now she's hot, too.
>Verification not required.

>>66459772
>the top of the entire company. Now they are nobodies.
true for michael, not true for Kson.

>>66480132
HoloID dodged a bullet not getting her or Millie

we are going to see a great schism in hololive english between the somewhat active members and the active ones, the trench separating them will grow bigger and bigger.

>>66461216
neither has gura

>>66498472
That's not in the company's best interest. I don't think they'll let it grow past collab preferences and who is closer to who. And their management is probably competent enough to keep it that way. The only way it happens is if they screw up to the extent NijiEN did.

Going public has ruined the prospect of hololive ever having a truly "kino" moment again, since now their chuubas will get tardwrangled twice as hard by jap man who unironically thinks people watch them for idolshit

myth was a success in spite of whatever the fuck EN management thinks people want, and it shows with how advent somehow feels TOO artificial in a hobby where you watch chinese cartoons react to green chats

>>66466742
this but her singing would be mediocre at best

>>66452150
Idol Culture, music, art, and/or CGDCT is essential to Vtubing because otherwise it's just streaming and dear Lord streaming and streamer culture is fucking abysmal.

>>66452150
>Vtuber hot takes
VShojo poaching is a good thing

>>66452342
Annoying voice + forced memes wouldn't beat gura sorry

>>66452342
You have to understand, a lot of people who ended up following gura, were fans from her pl. She wasn't a small indie, she had a one mil YouTube channel. She collabed with Bell Delphine (during that whore's peak) and her ok boomer got popular by that male abuser's tiktok. plus the perfect storm of covid and hype. She would have boomed regardless. However, Biboo and FWMC would have thrived as well.

>>66455411
at gura's peak she was very entertaining. she was clever in her words and very witty in her responses. she was just hilarious to listen too all around. biboo is cute, but she's not as funny.

>>66452150
Phase connect is more relevant than Idol corp

>>66452150
If you're not Japanese then working for any Japanese corpo must suck after the initial spark of getting hired and debuting.
NijiEN would've already met the same fate of ID and KR if it wasn't for Luxiem.

>>66502669
She sounds almost identical to goora

>>66454179
No, the west thinks anything with an anime avatar is weeb shit. That’s why to get vtubing started in the west, we needed a corpo that was good at doing weeb shit. Then, once you had that locked down, it opened the door for casual weebs to be open to vtubers doing non-weeb, non-idol content.
NijiEN, Vshojo, Phase, and all the rest owe their existence to HoloEN. If vtubing in the west isn’t diverse, it’s the normalfags’ fault.

>>66504839
>NijiEN would've already met the same fate of ID and KR if it wasn't for Luxiem
And now they're doing much worse.

>>66490907
>vtubering
I can hear mococo saying this with her thick japanglish accent

>>66499764
>Idol Culture, music, art, and/or CGDCT is essential to Vtubing because otherwise it’s just streaming
Yes
>and streaming culture is awful
That’s not the reason. It’s because the west still thinks vtubers are for weebs, so vtubers have to do things that have high crossover with weebs to get viewers. That’s why they all play video games instead of, idk, doing history lectures. You can’t have someone like Raden in the west because no serious art enthusiast in the west would ever give an art vtuber a chance unless they were also a weeb.
So besides pandering to casual weebs with video game streams or spamming collabs with Connor, the only other option is idolshit, which requires a lot of effort to build up credibility and brand recognition, and which only Hololive can really provide in the west right now.

>>66506521
>the west still thinks vtubers are for weebs
That's because it largely is. Western male streamers can be ugly and still be successful so an avatar isn't required. Western female streamers are a novelty based on physical looks. You can casually chat with your boys about how hot Amouranth is but you'll get some looks if you bring up Pekora or Gura.

>>66506963
What? I cringe anytime someone mentions that they watch amouranth. Simping for e-girls is no better than being a fucking weeb.

>>66507065
I didn't say it's better, I'm just saying that's the western standard for the most part.

>>66466047
>>66466178
You can either deal with retards on the internet and make truckloads of money or work retail or an office job, deal with retards in person and make peanuts.

If the first option is takes that much of a mental toll on her, then the second option might see her blow her brains out.

Pic is not intended for you, just highlighting my point.

>>66507375
They're also being treated with kid gloves because they're women. Men don't get this amount of leeway from any employer.

>>66504948
no, biboo has a grating voice

>>66464486
OP said hot takes, not facts

>>66507375
We're talking about women who never worked a 9 to 5 job in their life
Of course they think streaming is hard
Just look at all the hags who have actual work experience, they're all very appreciative of their vtubing career and are careful to keep the fans happy including the green rushian who got expelled from holo, who cared a so much about her career and fans, that she had a whole menhera meltdown arc because of it

>>66480132
Her nasally voice is incredibly hot, I hope Kyo rapes her

It's completely retarded how some chuubas act if you call them seiso.
Treating it like a slur.

>>66452150
i don't really care if zentreya is a man, boobs are boobs
i'm so sick of copy and paste debuts. outfit reveals also bore me in the same way
silvervale's 3d model was her best model

>>66509914
>i don't really care if zentreya is a man, boobs are boobs
Homo in denial.

>>66509914
>i don't really care if zentreya is a man, boobs are boobs
go watch a drag race then

>>66452150
The success of Myth is mostly due to Gura and Calli. Kiara, Ina and Ame would be runts if they debuted now.

>>66510137
Kiara would unironically be better now if she debuted with Council than with Myth

>>66509177
Enna is fucking disgusting, but I wish more vtubers talked through there nose. I want a vtuber who is the embodiment of the nerd emoji. The type of girl to unironically go "errmm, actually..."

Sana's back really did hurt and it was sad as fuck when she graduated.

>>66509914
Least homosexual babiniku enjoyer

>>66507375
Women do women things

>>66452342
Gura is a talented singer and it was at least 20% of her popularity. Bijou wouldn't have been as popular but she would have been more popular than the others in Myth I can agree with that

>>66473738
It's sad to see this board downplaying the achievements of Myth. I don't like Calli's music and don't watch kiara but I still admit the gen did incredible things during their first year.

Hololive fans like to make every little thing big and exaggerate it.
> "X" makes some small jokes or just has a funny moment.
> "OMGGG SHE'S A SUPER COMEDIAN, HAVE YOU ALREADY SEEN HER???? THIS IS THE FUNNIEST LIVE OF THE YEAR LMAOOOO"
> "X" says penis.
> "THAT'S FUCKING CRAZY, OMG SHE'S THE MOST UNHINGED PERSON, LOOK AT HER LOOOL"

>>66512542
If back pain was too much for streaming, she's really gonna love the other career options out there.

>>66512447
Hot

>>66514398
huh

>>66470041
You completely self-destructed your point when you mentioned Laplus. Holy fuck what a complete retard

>>66514619
No he has a point but Laplus isn't like Luna when it comes to games and how she acts.

>>66480132
Yeah same, when I watched her PL's graduation stream in a thread with scout anon I thought this was the girl that was going to make nijiEN actually competitive. And early on she was great, I still think her detroit: become human arc is the best playthrough of that game out there. Her resident evil stuff got clipped a lot and made some numbers.
To think she was not going to be the saviour of nijiEN but instead a big part of its doom. Can't make this shit up.
Enna is a textbook example of awful people being able to make kino content but also how awful people can't keep up the mask for too long.

Vtubing proves that women are better entertainers than male streamers.
Male streamers are carried by the fact that 1. kids dislike women 2. the games they play/the content they react.

>>66514747
There are no good female comedians.

>>66514832
Entertainers there is obviously to be read as streamer, I just didn't want to write it 3 times in a phrase.

>>66514747
Vtubing proved the opposite you nimatoad. Women don’t have to be funny, witty, or even pretty to make boat loads of cash sitting on their ass and talking about their day. Shit’s fucked.

>>66515001
Only Gura can do that, and it's because she became a brand more than anything.

>>66514747
So why do women have to show their bodies and make slutty moves to get some relevance?

Literally today there is no fucking woman in the top 50 on Twitch for example.
https://twitchtracker.com/channels/ranking

>>66515138
Why do men have to act like children screaming and shouting? because it's what the people want to watch and laugh at.

Also, as I said before, male streamers are carried by the games they play and the fact that male kids (who are the biggest audience) don't want to watch women. And I know this because we all have been through that phase.

If men were better than woman there would be 1 (one) top male vtuber. Vtubing, where you have to play a bunch of different games, sing, and can't burn down your house with fireworks, is female dominated.

>>66452150
Being a clipfag is the only appropriate way to watch VTubers. Bite sized chunks instead of being lethally injected with UwU cringe voices for hours is abd will always be better. I don't care that a SEAmonkey is getting the ad revenue- be a better streamer and I'll watch your streams. The only ones I do watch/oshi are Matara and Runie Ruse.

>>66515481
Women literally have exactly the same opportunities as men to create content on Twitch and they are not even in the top 50. Literally a woman has to be showing off her body or behaving like a whore on stream to not starve to death.

That restriction that you put in place to validate your argument only applies to female vtubers who are in a company. In fact, you are indirectly telling me that women on Hololive have the success they have just by being on Hololive or any other company with a certain reputation.If the central point of what you say were true this would also apply to indies.

>>66516194
>Women literally have exactly the same opportunities as men
No, because the male kids who make up most of twitch (streaming is a male hobby, we have plenty of data about this) don't like girls. We have enough books, movies, anime, comics, aimed at young men to know this.

>Literally a woman has to be showing off her body or behaving like a whore on stream to not starve to death.
I suggest you look up the actual numbers. Spoiler, most streamers of both genders make nothing, very very few are able to make a living out of showing off their body.

>That restriction that you put in place to validate your argument only applies to female vtubers who are in a company
I am not sure what restriction you are talking about. That hololive is the only reason for success is evidently false, given the amount of successful indies. Being in a corporation is obviously advantageous though, and by corporation I mean hololive.

>>66454815
You gura fags are hilarious because you act like she doesn’t spam the same 2 jokes about feet and being stinky.

>>66452150
Hot take: council is the reason why the EN branch is in a bad state right now. They didn’t pick up the weight myth dropped off and the horrible schedules at debut didn’t bring new viewers to the market only pushed them away. I feel bad for advent trying to revive this dead brand, hopefully they can as they seem motivated

>>66452150
Hot take: If twitch ever takes a dive 90% of the vtubers on there will become 3 views at best.

>>66493852
I think the Zen and Nina ones are wrong but, other than that, you are spot on.

>>66516391
> No, because the male kids who make up most of twitch (streaming is a male hobby, we have plenty of data about this) don't like girls. We have enough books, movies, anime, comics, aimed at young men to know this.

No, the Twitch audience doesn't like women, not because they are women but because they are not entertaining. On the other hand, the majority of the Twitch audience is not children, the majority of the audience is 25 years old or older. Now although there is an important young segment, they are not children either, in fact at the very least they are just entering adulthood but there is no evidence that the vast majority of viewers are directly children as you say (which is the basis of the argument is useless because YouTube kids is full of content for girls lol).

>I suggest you look up the actual numbers. Spoiler, most streamers of both genders make nothing, very very few are able to make a living out of showing off their body.
And... that just validates my point. I am literally saying that the majority of women who do well on Twitch are only showing their body or showing erotic content, because they are literally incapable of making entertaining content on the platform.

>>66515001
/asp/ bro...

>>66480132
>>66514717
I'm not sure if she could have been super big, but she was definitely way better initially than people would like to give her credit for. I legit loved the banter she had with chat, her dumb personal stories, and she was entertaining to watch struggle with games given she never played them when she was younger.
I didn't even really care about the Kyo shit (at least not initially), but I think her issues were becoming more evident from that point. My personal breaking point was Wrestlesanji where she won the thing and legitimately didn't give a shit about it or bantering with anyone. She gave off an uncaring vibe that was clearly different from her usual banter that only got worse after that.
Though by that point I moved onto Zaion anyway, like holy shit was January 2023 the death knell of NijiEN or what

Vtubing has attracted the wrong crowd / developed the wrong fanbase. Number obsession, blowing everything up into drama and trying to compare companies, talents, etc is such a waste of energy. The hobby would be infinitely better without tribalism.

Vtubing is in its infancy and as long as tech/soft keeps advancing we should be able to see more and more different stream types etc. but the focus on trend-chasing and leeching the meta is handicapping vtubing's strengths.

>>66517349
"council" is an okay gen that should've had IRyS in it already. She's the one who carries everyone. Fauna is okay, Mumei is fine when not swarmed by college, Kronii is average, and Baelz is the weak link who tries a lot to make up for her short comings.

>>66452150
Is it a hot take to say the job isn't actually hard and I'm sick of all these zoomer women taking months of breaks like the job is literally killing them

Lewdtubers are no more "honest" than regular vtubers, they just lie to you a different way.

EN was a mistake and JP will always be superior

>hot takes thread
>open thread
>the most basic bitch takes most of /vt/ actually agrees with

>>66514747
What a stupid post. Streamers like Jerma and Vinny are funnier and more iconic than any female chuuba.

>>66521279
>Baelz
Nice try sister

>>66522447
really calling me a sister when i think she's the weakest link and has done a lot more to butter up with JP than her own kouhais. no offense to her, but Baelz is just that weird middle ground where i don't exactly care for what she does, yet she streams such meh material. She exists. that's the worst spot to be in. EN's roboco if you will.

>>66454179
There was clearly a metric fucking shitton of unmet demand for Hololive-style content in the west, anon.
If hololive wasn't around, I wouldn't be watching some other vtubers or even female streamers. I'd be doing what I did before Hololive: not watching streamers at all.
I didn't even know I wanted Hololive until I stumbled on an early Gura karaoke one day by chance and was hooked. I had never been an idolfag or anything adjacent to it at all before that.

>>66521279
Council is carried by myth.

>>66452150
A lot of the good quality of advent comes down to that they were actually properly managed and given good resources this time and, apparently unlike myth and council/promise, scouted specifically to have a good group dynamic. I don't think there were any real weak links in myth in the beginning when it comes to talents, just a lack of cohesion, support, and direction. They kind of left them on their own to figure out how to manage the holoEN brand.

>>66480132
Enna had everything going for her in the lead up to the Higurashi concert. Her enka karaoke to start off 2022 was some amazing kino content, but I think her explosion in popularity after February 2022 was what sent her in a downwards spiral that hit rock bottom once she found Kyo.

I still remember her talking about that one marshmallow she received from some retard complaining that she didn't collab with anyone but Millie, and her saying she took that kind of criticism to heart. She did end up working on that, but the results were wildly outside what everyone expected. I can only imagine what that person thinks seeing what his arguably valid criticism lead up to.

>>66522672
>scouted specifically to have a good group dynamic.
How exactly, they never interacted before and at least 3 of them (shiori + fwmc) are borderline mentally ill.

>>66452150
Sure, Gura was never actually that good of a streamer in general. She did an amazing job at giving the character a voice(very nice singing as well) and personality but as far as being an actual entertainer streaming to thousands for many hours she was mediocre at best. I feel with non dogshit managing she would have been able to be molded into an amazing streamer but I don't think she ever really reached her potential.

>>66515138
>writing this unironically in a vtuber board of all places
Oh yeah, these women are completely nude! Behind the 2D avatar... what whores!

>>66452150
cringe

>>66523318
>"Vtubing proves that women are better entertainers than male streamers."
> I argued no.

And vtubers are not exempt from being whores, many of them literally have to please coomers, unicorns, yurifags and fat weebs.

On the other hand, how many Hololive talents would have the ability to succeed if they were indies?, very few lol.

>>66529215
>So why do women have to show their bodies and make slutty moves to get some relevance?
>b-but that's not actually what I meant!
>b-but hololive talents would be irrelevant without the brand, even though that wasn't my argument! y-yeah that's it!
nice backpedaling, faggot, but your poor attempt at deflecting doesn't work here

>>66452150
lmao go the fuck back.

Bijou's zoomer memes suck, especially the Nerizzler thing. The reason why I watch Hololive is to escape mainstream shit like Skibidi Toilet, is bad enough that most of the community nowadays is infested with normies and twitter retards

>>66531201
That's a fact though. It all feel like she's just saying stuff to fit in and it makes her unwatchable for me.

>>66452150
why'd you start the thread with a Hololive hot take OP. now all we have is cold takes and corp tards arguing.

>>66531201
im 31 and i find it endearing from her, that popular fan music for it is very catchy
tho gen z slang is still cringe

>>66452342
Dumbass, biboo might be an objectively better streamer but Gura is unironically proof that some people just have that natural chutzpah that no amount of skill can overcome. Besides that, for a lot of people, the moment they decided to give myth a chance was when Gura started to sing. Hell, Gura's singing is what gave us Irys

>>66530559
>>66530559
I have never retracted, in fact I continue to add more arguments to what I maintain.

You are the samefag who has to quote my answer again because it hurt your vagina to not be able to answer anything.

>>66523079
>I feel with non dogshit managing she would have been able to be molded into an amazing streamer but I don't think she ever really reached her potential.
eh, she has to actually want to be that in order to be that. She never did; she wasn't in the headspace for it when she joined. No amount of managing can help someone who doesn't want to help themselves.

>>66452342
Bijou is not a natural, Gura is, sorry

>>66480796
The thing is, some do view it as that, because they don't know the general concept of it. Because they look up out-of-context clips from some jackass of some vtuber who is nothing but a lewdtuber. Some people get annoyed because a lot of vtubers have a shrill voice and think "wow, these are all exactly the same person."

>>66452150
A lot of chuubas out there will do anything to get money asap, but will hate you for being (you). Literally an e-girl and I honestly think if weren't for twitchcucks and coombait this community would lay away a lot of stupid people

>>66542650
What? Sorry, I only speak English.

>>66542650
If you're a low self-esteem and/ or fat woman, becoming a vtuber is the best thing to happen to you. Just shell out even a couple hundred for a design, be a pngtuber and be cute via audio. Throw in some lewd shit and make your model have massive tits and you're a winner.

Vtubing is just a way for ugly girls with cute voices to become successful as e-girls.

>>66543773
Then how come a lot of vtuber roommates aren't ugly?

>>66543879
Sorry, I forgot to mention autism as the other reason why girls would become vtubers.

>>66452342
bijou is not funny, never tells stories about herself, and never talks about interesting topics.. in other words she's got a boring personality.
she's cute and streams a lot, but thats it. not nearly as much potential as gura.

HoloEN is pretty fucking boring.

>>66544294
Shut up, or I’ll rape you until you cum

Room temperature take: Vtubing was better when it was edited videos and skits. Streaming is nowhere near as entertaining. If you prefer JPs, you now need to know Japanese or just be okay with not understanding/needing clips. Back then, these skits and edited videos were translated, at least for the bigger ones. If you can't handle this, you are stuck with ENs unless you want to learn Japanese. But even if you are okay with ENs, streams have dead air and are boring at many points.On top of the above, streams having a set time make me anxious. I don't like entertainment to not be ready for me to watch whenever I feel like. I want content to fit my schedule, not other people's. I want to be able to rewind, fast forward, or just consume it however I want. This is a dealbreaker. Streams are a BAD experience. Streaming is NOT a good entertainment method. It is lazy and is only good for making more money.

Hot take: It is vtuber fans who are at fault for this. WE should have rejected this reality. WE should have not allowed this to be standard. WE should have not watched them.