/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

First thing, only about 7 votes failed verification, and this was with us being very lenient this around on how the verification question should be answered. Next time around we will be more strict on how much of the question should be fulfilled so your vote is counted.

Staring off, here are the results for the music related voting. Internet Overdose returns as a clear majority winner, with a 40 vote lead over 2nd place SSS. The VA was a closer race with Our Bright Parade barely overtaking Blue Clapper at 117 vs 109 votes. Out of the three music winners, I'll say we are more inclined to change this mid or even pre-cup given the reaction of the fans when it plays. For the general horn, Pekora's BGM won out with 137 votes over 2nd place of a random set of King covers. The last simple vote was deciding the fate of the GK, Hey Moona will stay as the team's GK given she made the roster.

Now for the meat and potatoes of the poll, the team Roster
The team roster was decided, firstly, using the top 23 voted players from the poll and then 5 slots were given out to non-Holo based player reps. In deciding who to cull, the players Watamelon and Numbers Queen were removed due to being to similar to Watamage and Ogey Rrat respectively. In the case of Watamelon, Watamage will get a makeover and have Watamelons on her model. The next 3 was the tough decision of excluding Suisei, Korone and Towa... due to being the lowest voted Holomems. The 5 players that were chosen based off a combination of roster and medal voting are: Pink Cat, Sieg Zaion, 10/10 ma, /lig/ma balls and /vt/ MY CORPO FUCKING DIED LET'S GOOOOOOO. All 5 of these choices can be elaborated upon if need be as why they made the roster.

From these 23 players, the medals were picked from the top 5 voted. Congrats to Super Hyper Ultra Ultimate Deluxe Perfect Amazing Nenechi and Ogey RRat for returning as the team's gold medals. The Yabbit, Watamage and I LOVE PIKA AS MY GIRLFRIEND AND SHE HAS BOING BOING fill up the 3 silver medal spots. Hey Moona returns as the Team GK as she made it through the normal roster vote. The rest of the 17 players will be divvied up into Defensive and Midfield roles based on the overall cohesiveness of the team.

Thanks to everyone that voted in this poll. I can understand if some may feel dissatisfied on how the polling process went and how the roster turned out. The intended outcome of what occurred was to better represent /vt/ as a whole versus being biased towards a vocal majority of the board. This process wasn't perfect, and we will be looking at ways to better accomplish what we intended to do in the future.

Raw Data of all the voting included in this link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CzRfWkOR9GcMG6EEUsGlJ87SD0L0BrCHLanz7GfnT08/edit?usp=sharing

Bullshit roster again

cant complain

I ran out of space but,
/vt/ will be playing Friendly matches this Saturday against /an/ and this Sunday against /cm/. The time is still not determined but I will make a thread the morning of announcing when that match should take place. I will also try to get the new players into these matches, but if that is not possible I will use the old roster from Autumn as I believe we have those models ready to go in PES 19.

>>46711609
Vseethe

It's over...

>>46711452
>JPs kicked off for not being popular enough
Ahahahahaha, serves them right for complaining about having not enough representation when the fact is that JP is completely irrelevant on this board.
>More small corpo reps than Niji reps
??????? but expected given the catalog is basically ruled by small corpo fags.

>>46712518
KWAB

>>46711452
i don't get it, how was Sieg Zaion chosen instead of "All out war", "everyone is /here/" or other non-holo choices clearly above it?

>>46711452
I'm a bit confused at the methodology use, you choose 23 top results, sure, and then guarantee 5 slots to non-holo slots, which also makes sense. But I don't understand why you guarantee these 5 slots ignoring the results of those that have already made it in that aren't hololive, it seems like you're over representing them. It'd make more sense to me to guarantee a larger amount of slots but count them if they made it in the majority voting, or you're over representing the results/votes.
The ones Towa/Suisei that were removed from this logic have a high amount of medal votes compared to those contemporaries that weren't holos and even those that are but made in the top 23 as well, showcasing that they're higher wanted by those who voted for them compared to someone like "/vt/ sisters" but no one is desiring them to a greater role as much.

>>46713326
/vt/ is full of kids with a goldfish's attention span, they can only remember the lastest fotm meme

Speaking about the next cup... I just checked the wiki and /vt/ have to go through the qualifiers to be in the main cup? What?

>>46714169
yeah but even disregarding this, Sieg Zaion and also /lig/ma balls, that i didn't even register at first since that one is not even in the top 60 voted options, are not even remotely close to the top picks. So many non-holo options that are above those two simply got ignored just to get those two in it seems. Why even give the option to vote for certain choices, if they then get ignored anyway.

>>46714352
/vt/ finished 26th out of 32 in the last babby cup and therefore needs to play qualifiers before the real tournament because 5-team groups are scary

>>46711394
>First thing, only about 7 votes failed verification
Which ones?

>mikoboat is in

>>46711452
>Watamelon and Numbers Queen were removed due to being to similar to Watamage and Ogey Rrat respectively
Why include numbers queen in the poll if you wouldn't have allowed it to get voted on in the first place? It's not like ogey rrat was going anywhere.

>>46714582
>>46711394
how do you fail to write a paragraph about your oshi

>>46714895
I would also strongly argue about Watamelon and Watamage being the same thing even remotely.

>>46713326
Zaion was chosen over those since she represented nijisanji as well as a polarizing figure in recent /vt/ history. What put her over the mark versus another popular member like Pomu was the way her termination was handled by niji and how the board had two sets of people supporting and being against her. After the both of us consulted, we determined that she would be a good fit for a player as there was a more tangeible idea for a model versus "All out war" and"everyone is /here/"
>>46714074
Yeah this was an oversight on our part. When creating the poll we expected only about 1 or 2 non-holo/board memes would make the cut for the team. This 5 players slot system was designed to be a net to ensure more representation on the team and we made the promise that non-holos/board players voted on naturally would not count towards the slots. Given the changing nature of the board, it is likely we will be working how the system acts in the future. Your example is a good point, but I went with the logic of /vt/ sisters being well known concept on the board, and is part of board culture given it's anti nature.
>>46714582
It was answers that completely sidestepped the question or gave an answer that had nothing to do with vtubers.

Queen of /vt/.

>>46714428
dunno everything is a fucking mess, just consider >>46714895

>>46711452
>/vt/sisters, a meme mocking antis and catalogfags, made it in
>Gura Killer, a mocking reference to retards that spam threads of some Literal Who (who is already on the team), made it in.
>NONE of the /vt/ homegrown projects or chuubas made it in.
I hate all of you and I hope we just barely don't spoon. Spooning is too close to an accomplishment. I want us to be banished to the Isle of Irrelevancy, doomed forever to never do anything of value, not even generate amusement. I want us to be the most lukewarm plain oatmeal in the league, but still awful. I hope every single game of ours has bad ref calls, and we never make it out of babby league.
I don't hold it against the manager; they're doing what the people told them to. I blame the board. We don't deserve anything but the mockery other boards have for us.

>>46715195
Ya seethe?

>>46711452
>>46714895
Maybe incorporate whatever would have gone into the numbers queen model (idk what that would have been, maybe the floating numbers in the model that /#/ uses for Pekora in the vt league) into the ogey rrat model?

>>46713326
>>46714169
Holy nijiseethe
maybe for the 8ch cup

>>46715233
They haven't invented a word for how much I'm seething. I hate every single one of you and the only reason I have tolerated you to this point is because everywhere else is even more retarded somehow.

>326 total responses when the vtl gets more viewers than that

>>46714428
The reserved slots were there to make the team more representative, not simply to cuck holos out of spots by skipping them in the rankings.
You can't have your vote-ignoring cake and eat it too, when convenient.

>>46715195
>NONE of the /vt/ homegrown projects or chuubas made it in.
it says a lot about the board

>>46712518
Wait, did they count The Jaw as a hololive rep? Motherfuckers, thats board culture, not specifically hololive. Do you retards not know about the niji and indie feds?

>>46715195
catalog memes are funny and I approve of them making it in but It's a fucking disgrace that /vt/ would rather try to sneak their oshi into the team instead of appreaciating the homegrown chuubas and OC autism of this board.

>>46715099
>It was answers that completely sidestepped the question or gave an answer that had nothing to do with vtubers
Kiwifags can't even falseflag correctly lmao

>>46714895
If they would have banned Numbers Queen because Ogey Rrat was on the poll too, someone would have cried and shat themselves over not having a choice between them, no matter how obvious the result is.
Can't please everyone.

>>46715271
>>46715341
i am not really seething, i was just curious as to why since even other niji-reps got skipped in favor of this one choice which seemed weird.

>>46715099
I think it was something to consider looking at past rosters as non-holos made it in without guaranteed slots, but it's something to note for the future if this is set in stone, even if it's dissatisfying. I'm not necessarily arguing against /vt/ sisters inclusion even if I dislike it, I was just highlighting something that doesn't have passionate supporters making it in over something that does, it did have a lot of votes in general after all. A more close case would be something about how literally who/gura killer could be defined as the same thing and neither of which match the medal votes for Towa/Suisei either, and how Towa is a long term board meme with towa baby and others. If nothing can change, then so be it, but I'll voice my issues with methodology as it seems a bit too arbitrary in these edge cases.

I question some of the choices skipped like DYRBI, is that considered a holo meme for this or a board meme as it should at this point?
What makes Corpo dying more special than Black Company?

>>46715612
I agree that Gura Killer and Literally Who are too close to deserve two distinct spots over something as iconic as Towtruck, for what it's worth.

>>46715515
>It's a fucking disgrace that /vt/ would rather try to sneak their oshi into the team instead of appreaciating the homegrown chuubas and OC autism
tribalfags will never understand what a big part of a board's culture OC autism is

>>46714895
This was more negligence on my part being more focused on the tactics for team. Numbers queen wasn't removed solely for being an identical clone of Ogey RRat, but more as a consequence of the slot system we utilized. There were 5 players that had to be cut to make room for the new 5, and numbers queen was one of the easier options to cull.
>>46715612
Yes I can agree with what you are putting out. This is the first time that I had to take an administrative role over a large poll for a team and as such I had to make a lot of concessions when discussing it with my co-manager on how to make it palatable to more board users. In the future we will discuss better ways of handling polling like this so that we can better gauge interest in players using the regular roster vote and the vote for medals. For reference, the idea I had behind this method was what /sp/ did with there poll, where an example is the Janny being a highly desired player but will receive little to no votes to be a medal.
>>46715888
DYRBI was considered a board meme. Corpo dying was picked over something like Black Company due to a better idea for a model being in mind when constructing the roster

>>46711338

>>46716329
>Corpo dying was picked over something like Black Company due to a better idea for a model being in mind when constructing the roster
I personally dont believe this is good justification for dropping one player over another.

>>46716595
Agree. I understand it would make things easier for the the aesthetics team, but it also could mean missing the chance to get more creative and unique models.
The models should be made around the roster, not the roster around the models.

>>46715195
>>46715515
who are the /vt/ homegrown chuubas? i only know bea, kiki, koopa and nade but nadefags doesn't look like they are interested in memegrass much
if chuubas from /asp/ all counts then only few who wants to watch that team

>>46716595
i was also because corpo dieing represented more specific things while black company was more general. admittedly and i want to say this here that there were many more corner cases and than i expected when we came up with this system and we should have said there was going to be some discretion when the final decisions came to being made instead of being hard and fast about it. also i wanted there to be a lot of options so there were things that probably shouldnt have been on for reasons like being too similar to another option. at the end of the day the system was flawed and when there were corner cases and things that really didnt make sense to do we followed more the spirit of what the system was meant to do which was be representative. this was our first time really coming up with a way to do a roster poll as the last time was mainly handled by the previous manager.

>>46716949
What I've done with /myteam/ is crowdsource model ideas when I don't have any, however then and only then did I throw out or combine memes to make a better player. It actually is really lame when you have a shit representation of a meme, I agree with their decision somewhat.

>>46711452
>Pika's just a silver on her last ride
Eh, I'll take it, hololive board after all.

>>46717124
>being too similar to another option
Yeah but before the poll you don't know which one people want more, it's a tough call to make

>>46716329
Makes sense in regards to Janny, I just imagine over these edge cases there should be something better to decide who gets cut, especially since you're guaranteeing slots to non-holos and something will likely be dropped as a result, and since you used medal votes and total votes to select those guaranteed ones, I'd have imagined the same process would've been used in reverse as well as that guarantees stuff like Janny, and not target ones just because they're holos who are more strongly desired than other holos or non-holos who share close vote counts and less demand.
I think that's the end of my gripes of my polling, good luck.

>>46716329
roster should be finalized and then medals should be voted for

>>46715570
Because this is a Holo board and all out war was last year

>>46717212
Kizuna Ai got as well, it's sort of standard for big, respected, graduations, save for Coco, well, because she's Coco and got to be gold.

>CTRL+F
>HAG
>157
you guys are alright

>>46717124
yeah, it's understadable for being the first time doing this stuff

>>46716563
>Mel giggles
CUTE

>>46712518
shan't be watching then

>46717963
you again? trying too hard

>>46717360
No worries about griping. A lot of concerns and issues with how it went are noted. Like >>46717421 stated, the medal voting should have occurred after the roster was finalized.

>>46715099
So you rather chose a player that had way less votes and you know half the board will hate, than "Accelerate" which got way more votes and is a more general niji meme and overall accepted by all sides? Damn, didn't knew dramasisters run the team now.

Just my 2 cents that does not matter.
I love this little team icon like you wouldn't believe but big logo infuriates me, dunno why. Love the color scheme

>>46711394
>Internet Yamero at 86 votes
Oh well. At least some of you have good tastes. Also, a pat on the back for those who voted to keep Internet Overdose.

>>46718564
Sounds based tho

>>46718564
yeah that was another corner case, like technically we said the slots would be for nonholos & non board memes and we had accelerate as a board meme, buuut it is a pretty damn specifically niji board meme so it still does add representation. at the same time we were like, well if we're adding a player for niji representation maybe theyd prefer an individual player and zaion is relevant and wont be relevant in the future. like i said it was a corner case hard decision to make. plus zaion's model is probably easier to make and there isnt much time. and the accelerate model would be hard to keep small and uncluttered if we wanted to do the meme justice. like i said this was the first time for us doing this.

Ah, neat, clearly not chosen by popular vote nor any actual reasoning provided for these terrible choices. Well, at least I won't give a shit about divegrass.

Come on, /vt/. Let's make it back to Summer.

>>46719320
abloobloo

>>46711394
>Next time around we will be more strict
Literally fuck off. Losing at simulated fake meme soccer isn't worth botting over.

why monkey? meme is stale at this point

>>46719548
It is, which is why I literally voted 5 times with at different times with different browsers

>>46719788
5 times at different times*

>talent freedom
sure hope that's nothing to do with souchou

>>46719892
It was last time and it will be her again surely

>>46720088
nice of the faggot managers to represent my oshi with anti shit

>ignore stuff that people voted for in favor of including stuff not even in the top 50 most voted choices
yeah, no thanks, i liked the idea of trying to include more things that are not hololive but if that gets abused to feature someones oshi instead of boardmemes then thats stupid, won't watch this cup.

>host insanely autistic voting poll
>Ignore results when they don't fit with what he wants

Gee, thanks aname. Very cool

>12th place in votes doesn't even make the team
That's uh, interesting.

>"unity tournament"
>include bait from the anti thread
>put it alongside fun jokes like "hey moona" and "ogey rrat"
Kinda weird how "towababy" didn't have any of the names insult the precious holos.

>>46715195
I don't care even slightly about "homegrown" talent. This is the only board that puts attention whores on a pedestal.

>>46711452
>we will be looking at ways to better accomplish what we intended to do in the future
how about not including anti names?

>>46721295
spergs like you considering anons partaking in the board's subject as "attention whores" is why /vt/ is a wasteland, have fun with twitter screencap threads and other /vpol/ nonsense

>>46720892
don't worry, we got aname making sure to diversify the team by including his non-holo oshis instead by ignoring most of the voted options

>>46711452
>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CzRfWkOR9GcMG6EEUsGlJ87SD0L0BrCHLanz7GfnT08/edit?usp=sharing

>As soon as I saw IRyS' debut, I knew she'd be my favorite EN. She's the perfect blend of dumb and chaotic that makes her streams always entertaining, even when they drag on for a ridiculous amount of time. Her music covers are good too I guess

Some of these answers are pretty cute

>>46721998
Zaion is one
what are the others?

>>46711338
if you're going to make the verification question more strict, can you make it an actual question and not an open ended paragraph next time? "tell me about your oshi lol" isn't exactly filtering anyone

>>46721998
Don't care. The least he could do is make every name at least something positive and not retarded shit schizos spam in the numbers thread.

>>46722247
filtered 7 people

>>46711452
>>46722098
I SEARCHED FOR MY MINE AND IT WASNT THERE
DIDNT I SEND IT FUCK

>>46722315
7 people who couldn't be assed to open google and find any random vtuber to write an inane sentence about, no matter how low you set the bar some people will fuck it up but the verification still sucks

>>46720191
Maybe if your oshi didn't promote anti shit we wouldn't use it to represent her

Wait wasn't there a vote to see if all medals will have their own goal horn?

>>46722704
Show the proof, Hololiar.

>>46722808
It was on the previous poll/thread. And yes, they all get their own horn.

>>46722247
Verification questions don't actually work.

>>46722831
>Hololiar
>kson doesn't promote anti shit btw, it's just a coincidence all kson fans are Holo antis

This vote is so silly
>"Representation of /vt/ is important!"
>Not a single /#/ reference despite having 2 players voted in the top 15

Jesus christ make the bias less obvious

>>46722582
These days they could literally just boot up chatgpt and ask them to write a paragraph on why they like gawr gura or whatever, there's literally no excuse

>>46723085
>no proof in post
>>46723107
Talent Freedom is your /#/ member

>>46723165
Your post is all the proof I need

>>46723107
/#/ had the most attended games during vt league. Pretty sure the guy in charge just wants to kill off interest in the team.

>>46723219
>act like a faggot
>everyone hates you
>"obviously this is kson's fault"

>>46723165
Talent Freedom is anti meme, has little to do with /#/ besides it being occasionally posted there (like in every other thread).
It's like saying ogey rrat is a /#/ meme

>10/10ma
this bitch doesn't even get posted about in /pcg/

holy fucking rigged

>>46723337
literally 90% of "talent freedom" instances are in the numbers thread. it wasn't her fans who voted for it.

>>46723224
Sure hope all those literal who threads show up for the /vt/ team games show up! It's gonna be looking very grim otherwise since /#/ is sure as fuck not coming

>>46723378
Yeah that is extremely sus.
She is probably the 5th o6 6th most posted in that thread. She doesn't even get a rate post

Seriously, why doesn't Bae just schedule her streams later if she can't be assed to wake up?

>>46723573
wrong thread retard

>>46723511
>>46723378
uniroincally Lia, Lumi, Panko and Yuri should get Phase Connect reps before her.

There was some mad forgery going on here nobody even posts about Tenma in /pcg/.

>tales 3 whole days to "review"
>the result is some convoluted roster nobody even knows half the memes
Manager FC

>>46723742
The fact that /pcg/ got two reps in while /#/ got none despite voting them in didn't give it away?
Just be lucky and hope aname and towa like your players, don't even bother voting!
/Lig/maballs got it in with 50 votes

Remove "talent freedom" from your shit team

>>46724009
the /vt/ team should be mostly Holo, /#/, and Phase.
Tenma inexplicably getting a spot is a laugher.

Like I wrote earlier, she doesn't even get a rateposts in /pcg/ let alone many catalog posts. Should've been Lia or Lumi if there had to be a 2nd Phase girl.

>>46724230
>phase

I have an idea for a player based on a board meme. "Marine is a whore". There are a lot of threads about that subject, so it must be a funny meme and not anti shit so you should include it.

>>46724344
anon we're talking about /vt/ and what is relevant on the board.
phase connect is /vt/: the company. people love them and rightfully hate them for it.

>>46723303
>everyone who hates kson must be a holofag
>we aren't antis btw

>>46724428
SALT SALT SALT SALT

>>46724009
/pcg/ and /#/ are the biggest drawing teams in vtl. they should have more reps (numbers should actually have reps)

>>46724792
>HOLOBOARD
>except when I pretend not to be a holofag while trolling

>>46723378
she's probably the most liked phase connect girl besides pippa outside of /pcg/

I liked kson fags better when they were anti china rather than salty bitches

>>46725103
Great she should be removed from your shitty anti team then

why did ui rape get skipped over for ligma balls? don't you dare say because she's holo adjacent

>>46725355
Can't have your funny joke because they had to make room for shit schizos spam in the numbers thread, sorry.

>>46724938
Ksonfags are all holoantis and somehow they still think they can convince people kson isn't spreading anti shit

>>46725794
You see a doctor yet, stabschizo?

Bring back the previous manager.
We choked, but at least the team wasn't this bad

>>46725984
>but at least the team wasn't this bad
Ehhh

>>46725984
Ksonfags seethe

>>46726218
nice unity tournament

>>46725984
>but at least the team wasn't this bad
we're in the fetus because of him

>>46726481
I doubt we'll do much better with this management, given that they get beaten at the vt league by the autos the previous manager did

>>46726859
they'll be fine

>>46726940
>/soc/ as a example
camon now...

>>46726859
I do not know about that. Unrestrained by the rules of /vt/ league they can stand on their own two feet.
https://implyingrigged.info/wiki//uma/
https://implyingrigged.info/wiki//gfg/
https://implyingrigged.info/wiki//drg/

>>46712518
Rigged

>>46715195
>NONE of the /vt/ homegrown projects or chuubas made it in.
How could memes making the roster over attention whoring nonsense possibly be construed as a bad thing? While a few of the names need work, this is far and away the best roster /vt/ has ever had.

>>46719892
>>46720088
>>46720191
???
What do you mean anti representation?
Previously to Kson joining your corpo, all I knew about it was ironmouse eternally dealing with death.
And after almost a year, your other members are a big ? to me and that Ad phrase stuck. Willing to bet I'm not the only one.

>>46721925
List the "anti names"
inb4 jokes "he" doesn't like

>>46727792
>>46728062
"talent freedom" is shit that ESL antis spam when talking about kson. it's not something that she said or her fanbase has ever used. she was not even in that ad campaign you're talking about.

>>46722582
So...it did work.
Why are you mad?

>>46723107
>>46722284
Both of these anons feel sad :(
I think they should kiss

If you filtered the guy who only said Forsen, you should know that's a dumb Vei meme, and was technically about her.
Doesn't really matter at this point though

>>46723378
Before you troons brigaded the board with your shitty twitter yabbit, Tenma got her twitter suspended supporting Pika.
Wash your mouth and kneel before you talk bad about 10ma

You know who I miss?

>>46724576
Spamming thread like bots don't make them relevant. Otherwise nijiBOT and kronii threads deserves like 4 players.

>>46728062
>/vt/sisters
>Gura Killer
>Talent Freedom
All utterances that only appear in bait threads on the catalog, or as jokes openly mocking those people. Validating trolls and antis by making them members of the team should be highly discouraged. If any reference to them was going to be made, it should be something like "BASED MEIDO", as a reference to that one coupon.

>>46725189
>>46719892
>>46723165
>>46723450
>>46724071
Starting to believe the ones mad Kson is in the team are Zhangs.
They are mad at Kson being there and representing the Talent freedom phrase, not at the phrase itself.

>>46726344
The holoboard doesn't like holoantis, imagine my shock

>>46730588

>>39431103
>>39432007
>>39434275
>>39434639

rate this roster

>>46730548
Fuck your hugbox bullshit

>>46730978
Needs more holos

>>46731179
>>46726344

>gura killer
cookieswirlC

>>46730978
Kino incarnate

>>46731271
Who said this is a fucking unity tournament? If you’re offended by inane taunting like calling a chuuba “Gura Killer” you need to either grow a dick or go back to wherever you came from.

>>46731781
The manager said it was supposed to be a unity tournament in the name selection thread. I am aware that he's a lying cunt but those were his words.

>>46730548
>Sisters is an anti term
Holy newfag

>>46732084
vt sisters is a term used by people to describe the shitty bait thread makers and users. it literally describes anti behaviour.

Just make it to the babbies and make 4ccg seethe like the faggots they are. They spawned /vmg/ and /out/ to keep us out. Lets just advance.

>>46711452
>A player with 110 votes doesn't make it in because the ignorant hlgg dweller doesn't know what it means and thinks it's the same as another unrelated player

Nice poll bro

>>46715099
d-did my Haiku count?

>>46722436
sapling...

>>46733268
You are mentally retarded. Do you think /vt/ sisters is some kind of term of endearment? Do you think it describes or portrays anti behavior and dramafagging in a positive way? Or does it mock that behavior and the people that engage in it?

Ok, I have come here to try and right a wrong with the roster. In deciding who would make the team and who would not make the team, I exerted too much administrative control on who to cull from the team in order to make way for the 5 non-Hololive associated players. Numbers Queen was stricken due to her using a Pekora model and that as the reason for associating her to Hololive. I was wrong in this decision as the Numbers Queen represents the entire sector of numberfags and shouldn't just be lumped in as a Hololive representative because of how she is expressed in game.

To remedy this mistake, Numbers Queen will be added back onto the Spring 2023 team roster in exchange for Corpo dying. This player was chosen due to the association with them being a manager biased pick, which if it was should be associated to me and not my co-manager since I gave the final say on who would be included and was the one who suggested she be a quota player. /vt/ sisters was also considered, but despite her controversial status among the users of /vt/, she represents a part of the board in a way that is less anti-like than other choices. I want to reiterate that this is a one time thing to remedy an issue that should not have occurred during the construction of the team. We promise that the next time around we will have our shit together and present a roster poll that will not be as badly implemented as this time around.


>>46734046
I believe so yes.

>>46734993
it highlights it, vt shouldnt highlight the fucking terrible portions of it, otherwise you might as well have cannibalism and /meat/ represented

>>46735042
>Numbers kills a small corpo
Pottery
Well done

>>46735141
>Meat
Those /d/egenerates are not part of /vt/ and never will no matter how much they try to convince people otherwise

>>46735042
small corpo bros.. not like this...

>>46711452
why isn't there a holo representative with a mori model called "horse semen container"?

>>46735042
Maybe don't skip players that are top 15 in the voting next time

>>46735042
Based.

>>46735042
There have to be ways to easily distinguish the players. They mean totally different things, all it takes is some creativity.
Queen of Numbers could be sitting on a throne with an empress crown, or maybe wearing royal clothes. You could have falling matrix number code around her, or the /#/ player for the VTL with the holographic screen and youtube analytics.
Endless possibilities

>>46735560
exactly, and the "vt sisters" are outsiders that raid this place and the reason why the catalogue is such garbage

>>46736378
We actually had a pretty cool Numbers Pekora last roster.

>>46735042
Change "talent freedom" to "Souchou" or remove her. Then go fuck yourself.

>>46736495
who knows if that model will be usable now, they are moving to pes19 instead of 21

>>46736275
That name would be insulting to some holofags so it's not allowed. You can only insult chuubas outside of Hololive.

>>46735141
It sounds to me like you’re being a little bitch about this. The team is about what /vt/ is not what what you wish it was. I’ll take any piece of /vt/ culture over more waifu reps.

>>46736588
PES19 and PES21 are nearly interchangeable as far as models go.

>>46736654
vt sisters isnt vt culture, its qa on vt

Nice of you to look out for the sisters in here who might be offended by /vt/sisters while openly mocking my oshi

>>46735141
>>46735560
meatfags are on topic because they talk about their lesser known indies and content

>>46719788
This is the fucking saddest thing I've ever read.

Just tell me Nene is back and that's all I need.

>>46737992
she's a gold

>>46737661
I'll be joining that anon next time if that's what it takes to keep anti names off the roster.

>>46738133
Oh don't worry I'll make sure to vote for talent freedom 80 times next season just to see you seethe

>>46738323
Nice unity tournament managers

So wait, there is affirmative action to who makes the roster? Seems convoluted.

Roster idea: "Male Collaber". It's a fresh board meme so Heimin will all enjoy it.

>>46724230
The Phasefags constant attempt to leach off of Cover has to be the saddest most pathetic thing on this board. No shame whatsoever. Just constant asskissing and hoping Holofags will let you sit with the cool kids.

>>46739641
I thought that's an Jew thing with idolfags tho, especially with Rin

Being a vt manager/caretaker is a tough job

>>46739811
They literally don't do anything. Lazy fuck can't even remove one anti name.

>>46738914
Your tears are delicious

>>46733430
>Implying /vt/ won't Kwab

>>46740031
Let the anti play anon, they're part of /vt/ culture too

What is the anti name?

>we failed to achieve perfect INTERNET synergy for our anthems
Watch us get out of fetus, only to job hard in babbies.

>>46740813
>Inb4 /Vt/ gets aborted at fetus

>>46730978
replace pride of hololive with wrestling autism and it's perfect

>shittalking other chubas is a big part of this board
>"Wtf why is the thing representing the board on a board team?"
Are you fags serious?

>good anthems
>Pika made it to medal
the minimum requirements for me to care about this cup have been fulfilled
pcg is way over-represented, and there are a few too many catalognig memes, but overall good roster
thank you mane-san, i will still chant SACKED IN THE MORNING at our first loss

>>46711452
Why are HEY MOONA and I MISS FAUNA have so few roster votes in the table on the right when the graphs on the left show them in a different position? HEY MOONA should be between A FUCKING MONKEY and Watamage/Watamelon, and I MISS FAUNA should be between Watamage/Watamelon and Nene. I might be retarded but what happened there?

>>46742943
>are ... have
Forgive this apparent ESLism, I didn't re-read the whole post before rewording it.

>>46711338
>INTERNET OVERDOSE is still our anthem
>pika is a medal
I'm fine with these outcomes
Is there a chance Nenechi's goalhorn can change to her ultra instinct version btw
https://youtu.be/xt2aVmWF3f0?t=21

I like how the top 3 players have something to do with Pekora. Also surprised my oshi got so many votes even though she's never mentioned in these threads.

>>46715338
Well yeah, noone gives a shit about /vt/ team when it's ran like this

>>46736516
How about No, It's funnier to watch you be upset

>>46730978
Needs an /hfz/ rep and I would have liked some kind of AI (art) rep as well, fine otherwise

Remember to grazie your local Pippa.

>>46742706
>and there are a few too many catalognig memes
In an ideal world the roster would be full catalog.

I propose to double down on our tribalism. Make VTL important. It ensures that
1) Generals will try to do their damn best at thread interaction due to them desperately trying to find managers
2) Fucks over catalogshitters. Unless they form a cesspool general like /#/. In that case, the other generals can just out-manage them.
3) Stops the mangers from spilling their spaghetti because there will be less things to poll in the first place

>>46745639
>Make VTL important in the same way that VGL is important for /vg/ and have it determine the roster.

Forgot to add that part. Whoops.

>>46745639
Generals are the cancer of a board. /int/ was a thriving place until it got drowned by generals. We need more "catalogshittery", not less, because it's the true intermingling place.

>>46745239
I will, by cumming on her feet

>>46745639
I've been saying this for several threads. Just have people pick their favorite players from vtl.
You would get more variety and also a funnier team that way.

>>46745639
>>46746292
VTL All-stars...

>>46747651
beautiful

>>46711394
>Overdose as the anthem
>but not Yamero to follow it up after a victory
/vt/ has disappointed me once again.

I'm happy with the roster, it is decently balanced compared to previous ones.

>>46746292
This would work if all notable threads and memes were represented in the League, but it's far from complete.

>>46747651
>two tokyo ghouls

>>46730978
garbage

Be kind to divegrass managers. Trust divegrass managers. Contribute to polls of divegrass managers. Be grateful to divegrass managers for improving the roster. Defend divegrass managers in divegrass threads. Promote matches of the /vt/ team on the board. Ignore seething losers hating the team. Send divegrass managers a nice DM. Thank divegrass managers for their voluntary effort. Support the team in the 4cc. Encourage divegrass managers after a loss. Shove a ball down the throat of fags whining about the roster. Sing along with the anthem. Congratulate successful divegrass managers. Love divegrass managers.

>>46748272
based yammers

>>46748272
They have failed to do the bare minimum and deserve no praise.

>>46746292
Why would we want funny names that represent the people on this board? Just insult them all. Except my precious holoangels of course.

>>46748529
*shoves a ball down your throat*

>>46711452
>google docs
>my entry made it
Huh, I was sure it'd be one of the seven entries you throw away.

Dimeless lineup. We gonna get aborted.

>>46745913
I confirm this message, if you can't stand what's happening on the catalog then might as well go back to your dicksword server

>>46735042
How the fuck is Corpo dying the choice from all that was written in here? get Zaion off the team already!

>>46748272
I am sure we will be able to keep improving this team without further yabs. Infighting and trolling will quiet all and we will be able to rally behind the team in UNITY, and take the cup for us at last.
The worst is behind us. After all, what could go wrong?

>>46711338
>minority quotas
Fucking disgusting. Even then I can understand /vsj/ rep, PC rep, small corpo rep. All of these are relevant to some extent. But /lig/ rep? Seriously?
There is a reason they got only 50 votes and that reason is irrelevance. What's the point of putting them in instead of one of those players that actually represent the board and got more votes?

>>46711394
The perfect Internet synergy... Owari da...

>>46711452
thanks for strengthening the argument that divegrass should only be a thing for vtl, fuck 4cc. Hopefully you choke so bad we dont win a game or even draw. Heck if we have to qualify to even get to the groups I hope you dont even manage that.

>Tenma is in
silent majority bros, we fucking won

>>46753212
Except unity is not on the team despite getting more votes than other choices and i don't feel much unity when the managers collude with vtl managers to get their stuff on the team like /lig/ma balls

>>46745913
if the catalog wasn't just /qa/ and borderline off topic dramashittery sure. The only reason this board has so many generals is because retarded mods decided vtubers weren't a cultural phenomenon and intentionally sabotage it

bump

>>46740729
Vshitshowfags are the most humorless anons on the board so they consider "Talent Freedom" an anti name because it's used in a tongue in cheek way when referring to vshojo. That's the level of mental maturity we're dealing with. They can't handle completely benign shit like that. Basically VenerealShojo is demanding to be treated with the respect that they imagine they deserve rather than accepting that the vast majority of this board sees their company as a group of loose women doing stupid, whorish things under the guise of "talent freedom".

>>46755658
You didn't even get half of necessary votes to secure a spot on the team.
The only reason you are in is because of the fag manager with dreams of "inclusivity".
You are just a pet nigger who is allowed on the field to fill in minority quotas.

>>46759372
>let me put your oshi on my team under a numbermonkey nickname without any input from her actual fans
>wow why aren't you happy you're so unreasonable
fuck yourself retard

>>46759982
>>46759514
Dial8.

>>46760029
Cope phasefaggot
Preferential treatment is the only reason your squeaky ESL bitch is on the team

>>46759982
I don't really give a fuck if you're happy or not. What I'm saying is that you are apparently incapable of living with even the most benign jokes and nobody should take a person like you seriously. When Gura was on the roster she was not on as something positive. She was Rigger Hate with a crushed parallelogram for a head. When Kiara was on the roster she was not on as something positive. She was Orange Woman Bad.
You're lucky I'm not running the goddamn team. I'd take that entire Vei segment where she's talking about diarrhea and her period, cut that into a commercial for Vshojo, and make it a chant. You're seething about the most softcore shit.

>>46760600
>I'd take that entire Vei segment where she's talking about diarrhea and her period, cut that into a commercial for Vshojo, and make it a chant.
This is actually a pretty good idea. Take notes, manager.

>>46760506
>it was seething vshjfag
kek, why small corpo makes you seethe that much?

>>46760831
That faggot cares too much about (((unity))) to put something like this in

so what actually do you dislike about the roster? calling the manager a faggot is not constructive criticism

>>46761147
>>46736516

>>46760600
>insulting gura's objectively shit rigger who all her fans also hate is insulting gura
>vshojo fans must really seethe like i do when veibae says gross shit
Sorry about your brain damage. I'm picking the roster next time btw.

>>46760957
What a fucking retard you are phasefaggot. Nyanners is also not supposed to be in since she didn't get enough votes.
>>46761147
The fact that voting was pointless? If he wanted to put in his favorites no matter what then there was no need to waste my time.

So are we all agreed on Pika's goal horn?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh0C4lic3fM&t=31s

>>46711452
Why do moona and fauna have different numbers? Did you count right?

>>46761176
Holy fuck keep seething Vshitshowfag he's not going to change when you are the only retard whining about it

>>46761334
So then, just to be clear, you don't give a shit if a chant is cut mocking vshitshow's gross, whorish behavior but you will piss your pants in anger if the board mockingly refers to that gross, whorish behavior as talent freedom?

>>46761147
>quarter of the team is taken up by minorities for the sake of forced diversity
>the lowest of them got so few votes that you can't even see it on the chart posted in this thread
>H-huh? W-what's wrong with the roster g-guys?

me and the other manager will talk about any further changes to the roster and announce them by saturday the 8th the day of the first friendly if there ends up being more changes. i dont know when the other manager is going to be around today so thats why it cant be done rn. that'll be the last post from either of us this thread unless anything else comes up.
shouldnt have to say this but the idea that any decisions were made because "we just like that player more" is stupid and im not going to go into my entire tastes to prove that because i know that wont convice anyone who thinks that anyway.
>>46761548
that was the plan since that was something we got suggested in the music polling and it fits, unless someone has something better.

>>46761654
It's a reasonable request. If they actually care about board unity rather than being a holofag circlejerk they would listen.

>>46761854
Please use the loop I posted here if we go with it.
>>46458192
>https://files.catbox.moe/sibrfd.mp3
This is looped 2x within the mp3. Doubt you'll get a better suggestion, but go for it if you do.

>>46761854
Nigga 53 votes. Fifty three. In what universe putting in a player that got less than 20% of the overall votes is considered a sensible decision? What was that about the team supposedly representing the board? What does this represent? The board consisting of people who can't count?

>>46761356
sos, vsjtrannie having a melty.

>>46761854
>53 votes
>skipped all of the days since last stream/yab players
>affirmative action slots were 5, gave 10

bump ?

the issue is that voting shenanigans aside you're never going to please everybody because there's different "styles" of board teams and they all exist in the cup one way or another. for example you could have:
- a team that represents the catalog (e.g. the old /jp/ roster)
- a team that represents the topic of the board as broadly as possible (e.g. the new /jp/ roster)
- a team that represents long-lasting board in-jokes (e.g. /v/ and many others)
- a team that represents the board in its "best" years (e.g. /b/)
and so on. the reason for this is that it is ultimately the board itself that decides how they want to present themselves to the world, so to speak.
back to the original point, each of these options requires a different kind of poll (if one at all), and by consequence different ways to gather a roster. concretely, the old /jp/ roster was 1/2 heh managerial diktat and 1/2 chosen by polling the catalog, the new /jp/ roster is chosen by going to the catalog but also to most generals, /v/ chooses its roster by strictly vetting suggestions in its own thread, and /b/'s is basically a relic of the 2011 era.
unfortunately it appears that here much as in most boards there is very little consensus as to the general construction of the team itself, and if we're stuck at the bikeshedding stage there, then surely there cannot be consensus as to who should get in. in conclusion i think that's what should be set in stone at least for a while, and then decisions can be made and criticized with reason, rather than having to discuss the managers' arbitrary sensibilities for 200 posts every time.

>I LOVE MY OSHI AME SO MUCH. SHE IS CUTE FUNNY AND TALENTED. SHE IS ALWAYS LOOKING TO HELP OUT OTHERS EVEN AT THE COST OF HER OWN STREAM. I LOVE ALL THE DIFFERENT VARIATION OF AME LIKE SMOL AME BEE AME ARMANDO AND BUFFSON. SHE IS ALSO A GOD GAMER BEING ONE OF THE FEW ELDEN LORDS OF EN AND ALL ROUND THE BEST GAMER OF EN.


>I am the first filian gosling. I love her for how she cares for her friends and for the rare moments when she gets overwhelmed by emotions and shows her hidden feelings.

>Pomu Rainpuff of Niji and Lia of Phase Connect! They are cute and special girls to me. They are friends and I hope one day my 2 girls will collab together!

Reading the paragraphs voters wrote about their oshi puts a smile on my face. This the most wholesome UNITY moment of this entire event. This was a good idea.

>>46766194
It's already been set for awhile. People vote and the players with the biggest amount of votes get a spot.
Now all of a sudden we get players who are not even on the chart pushed onto the team for some arbirary reasons.

>>46724428
"It's okay when Japan does it" with as lewd a model of marine as 4cc allows actually would have a shot at being in desu.

Troopas...maybe next time....

>>46759982
Wasn't Talent Freedom literally something Vshojo advertised with?

>>46762259
>What was that about the team supposedly representing the board?
It makes sense when you consider that the people who voted aren't representative of /vt/ as a whole.

>>46770361
What's that supposed to mean?

>>46761854
can we use >>46743067

>>46767003
that is a mechanism, not a policy. i am talking about the latter. what is the justification for this method? to what end is it employed? are the implications known and agreed upon, or was it just something that triangleman came up with and everybody accepted passively?
even last summer the previous manager wrote about some sort of "affirmative action" for lesser-voted reps, and accordingly he didn't provide a pure voting poll, but rather a delta poll + non-holo suggestion box (as far as i remember).
but let's say that there is a sensible reason for the current method. discussion can be had as to which candidates to include and which voting method to use. i think we can both agree that 225 candidates are a bit too many, but merging or removing any of them before casting votes will no doubt cause drama, accusations of rigging, and so on. i didn't really pay attention to how this was handled in the past so it'd be great if anyone knew and was able to enlighten me.
as for the voting method, allowing multiple votes per ballot is retarded, because it strongly favors bulk voting towards one's preferences as well as the most generic palatable choices; a better system would be some kind of ranked-pairs where you can pick any amount of choices and rank them from most wanted to least wanted. nonholo slots wouldn't be needed anymore, and every voter would have the same voting power, unlike now.

>>46771859
For Summer, I didn't want to do a full roster change so I did the delta poll and removed everyone with a negative result. I then took a suggestion poll where any players would be accepted and the top 4 or 5 took up those spots. I organized it such that you could just vote for a Phase rep or whatever in general terms id you wanted.

Usually when I did a normal roster poll, I just took the current 23 + my own ideas from using the board + a few suggestions right after the poll began.

>>46730588
Are the zhangs in the room with us anon?

>>46735560
go back

>>46772608
Just giving the history as I did it, not giving commentary on how it was done this time.

It's amazing how the official /vt/ main team roster is made in a total different way than /vt/ league teams. Here you encourage antis and reddit memes by putting them in the roaster while in the league it's highly discouraged. That's why the roaster sucks. I believe if Reddit ever does something similar the roaster would be almost the same.

This polling is a fuck. Just do top 23 votes and be done with it. The slots should be if less than 5 non-Hololive members make the team and not some arbitrary gibs.

>>46773663
Team looks pretty alright to me.

>>46773075
for /vt/ league teams are created by generals as a way to promote themselves to the rest of the board, they are incentivized to create a good impression and, while i'm not intimately familiar with each teams creation process, i'd imagine that antis have no say in it

for the /vt/ team they cant do that, everyone wants their oshi or personal favourite meme to be on the team so there's no prevailing cohesive vision from the voters and to make matters worse a large portion of /vt/s userbase stay inside their generals & don't bother with the shitshow that is the catalog or just don't feel like voting as their small corpo / indie has no chance anyway

tl:dr the /vt/ team will always be kinda shit

>>46773745
They skipped a bunch of players in the voting to put in players that they liked more

>>46770255
Kson was not a part of the group when they did that ad campaign

>>46773963
Call it the manager's salary.

>>46774092
They ran that campaign, or at least had the posters up, from 22/6/13 to 22/7/12.
She announced that she was joining vshojo on 22/7/2.

It's not hard to to see why she was associated with it since it was specifically a campaign in Japan specifically to promote their, then new, Japanese branch, of which she was the only and first member at the time.

>>46761147
theres no koyote in it

>>46761147
>calling the manager a faggot is not constructive criticism
Do you realize what site this is?

>>46761147
Mostly that the 5 diversity hires were picked because the manager liked them rather than from the top performing non-holos.

Are we even going to make it to the actual Babby?

>>46775399
Just win

re-fucking-minder that /4cceddit/ wants us to eat shit and die as they summoned two teams to keep us in fetus.
they don't give a shit about what players we put on the roster; they straight hate us, so managers:
WIN.
and don't let them get in your skin.

>>46761147
No flavr, this bland roster isn't going anywhere

>>46776526
Literally who? I mean the player

>>46775033
do you realize that if you cant use your words properly people will discard your opinion?

>>46776031
We would have been in the fetus anyway

>>46716329
quaso

>>46761147
>No Koopa
>No Beatani
>No Temako
>No FLaVR
>No actual /lig/gers, just Dr Manhattan this is honestly mostly fine, but it's a small thing that adds up with other complaints about the Forced Represenation
>No HFZ
>No NASFAQ
>No Worldbuilding
>None of the vtuber games being built by anons /here/
>No AI
>No "Fuck Susan" or "Susan Hate" even though that's probably one of the oldest board memes in existence
>The only Niji rep is the one that got fired from EN I like Zaion and all and I'm glad she's on the team, but 6 other Niji-related options got voted higher. I understand the "difficult to model" issue, but still.
>Gura Killer and Literally Who are the same concept but it gets to take two slots for some reason
>/vt/ sisters, a direct reference to actual tourists and antis, is somehow considered "board culture", but none of the board projects or chuubas get in
>The "Affirmative Action" slots are used on 2 reps that already have related reps in the top 15 I don't like how TALENT FREEDOM is used by antis and catalogfags, but it is indeed a direct reference to vshojo and is not inherently an anti phrase
>Another AA slot used on a vague concept instead of being used to get more diverse representation in (maybe Tsunderia?), but then replaced with a player that is currently associated with a Holomem
>4 Players are directly associated with ONE (1) vtuber, while entire sections of the board and its culture remain underrepresented.
>Medals were voted on at the same time as the roster, critically splitting that vote.
I'm not going to get into the manager picking favorites, passing over certain options for model difficulties, or anything like that, because sometimes you DO just have to accept that there's a time crunch involved and make dumb decisions. However, there is still a lot of stuff legitimately wrong with this roster, given the logic that the manager has presented us thus far. The Affirmative Action slots should've been used more appropriately, and there should be a higher weight given to stuff that is actively celebrating and promoting vtubers, and stuff that is actually being creative and useful in the catalog. I love Tenma way more than Pippa, but Pippa got in, so Phase clearly doesn't need Forced Representation. I would rather have Pink Cat than Talent Freedom, but Talent Freedom got the votes, so we don't need to use one of the Affirmative Action slots on getting vshojo more representation. If you included Pink Cat because you knew vshojo fans would get mad about Talent Freedom being spammed by antis, then cut Talent Freedom and put Pink Cat in the slot instead. You had options here and intentionally elected to not take them. Be that because they didn't occur to you or because of time crunch is unfortunate, but it doesn't diminish that these are valid criticisms of the roster.
At BARE MINIMUM, the medal poll should be redone as a separate poll. It makes no sense to vote on those at the same time, especially with limited votes.

/vt/ sisters is a funny meme, you should grow a pair of balls and stop expecting the roster to be a hugbox

>>46781535
>4 Players are directly associated with ONE (1) vtuber, while entire sections of the board and its culture remain underrepresented.
This is why democracy is a mistake.

>>46781535
I love whores got more votes and got ignored for 63rd place Dr Manhattan
>He's not even on the graph

>>46781776
says the vt tourist, whats your actual home board

>>46782902
Probably picked over I Love Whores due to Manhattan's model being better and I Love Whores being a /tv/ meme originally.

/vt/ sister is funny and the majority agrees *shrug*

>>46716140
This board's "OC" and "culture" is all cancer though

>>46783465
you mean people who other boards sent here to force the player on the team

>>46783500
>holofightz is cancer

>>46783568
it is

>>46783589
explain how

>>46783500
Holofightz and Yubicraft are kino what the fuck are you saying

>>46781535
>>No Koopa
>>No Beatani
>>No Temako
>>No FLaVR
>>No actual /lig/gers, just Dr Manhattan this is honestly mostly fine, but it's a small thing that adds up with other complaints about the Forced Represenation
>>No HFZ
>>No NASFAQ
>>No Worldbuilding
>>None of the vtuber games being built by anons /here/
>>No AI
So basically what you want is 23 players of chuuba specific generals.

>>46783732
>hfz is a chubba specific general

remember these results when you pretend any posts in any thread was not made by a holofag (it was)

>>46783842
Actually, what I'm getting from this thread is that small corpofags now far outnumber the Nijifags on this board. Kinda wild to think about.

I miss beebs that's all.
Don't be discouraged managers, we all talk shit on each other on 4chan. When matches will come we well all gather on cytube and be UNITED again. Good luck

proposing again to ban every reddit-tier "chuuba meme" (e.g. Hirys its Irys (???)) from entering the poll. it does not represent /vt/, it only represents how many people on /vt/ like that chuuba

>>46783732
No, I want literally any ackowledgement that we aren't just a cesspool of tourists, redditors, and dramafags, which is what this team is showing. Not a single iota of /vt/'s many creative projects are on display, just the antis, tourists, and hololive fans.
What is being put on display is the exact /vt/ that the rest of the site thinks we are. If you think that's the kind of board this is, then go back to wherever you came from, because it's not /vt/ and probably isn't even 4chan.

>>46784967
>we aren't just a cesspool of tourists, redditors, and dramafags
anon, I don't know how to tell you but...