/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

easier to learn japanese if you live in japan and have to interact with japanese every day

>interact with Japanese people everyday
>wow how did she learn Japanese so quickly??? muh /djt/ told me anki every day!!!!

Immersion will always be the greatest way to learn it

She did it Spartan style.

People who grew up learning 2 languages (in her case, German and English) have a much easier time picking up a third language.

how do we deal with the newfag problem, bros?

>problem

>>4568464
>easier to learn japanese if you live in japan and have to interact with japanese every day
mori....

>>4569079
>>and have to interact with japanese every day
Mori is a shut in NEET that interacts with westaboo rappers and delivery boys. The only Japanese she needs is "large peppeloni" and "thanks man"

>>4568412
>she learned it in just 6 MONTHS
You are never done learning a language. It's not that hard to get to a basic causal level in six months.

>>4569120
Mori needs a large peppeloni alright.

She studied japanese.
Languages come in three parts and two blocks. The parts are Reading, Listening and Producing. These are independent of one another and you can be able to read japanese but not listen to it, or only be able to do very basic german conversation but get completely lost in a book, doubly so with a different writing system.
The blocks are grammar and vocabulary, self explanatory. Vocabulary comes first because you can kind of do a conversation with "meat eat money how much" kind of english but grammar is just rules for stringing together words.
Understanding language learning like this instead of relying on unfocused methods works faster and better.
Understanding that you need to learn all three separately is the key to not giving up when you've been reading yotsuba for three months but you cant understand a single word from a podcast.

Japanese grammar is piss easy if you did morphosyntactic analysis in HS (curricular in europe), and for vocabulary you either autistically rote memorize a whole list or you go do immersion. Kiara doesnt think media works for learning a language so chances are she just bruteforced every kanji up to N2 and every word in the vocab list to lern japanese. This works, if you can do this you can learn any language in months.
UN diplomats with fluency in 8 languages and conversation level in 22 do this. They sit down and literally just "study portuguese", all the words with their grammar rules, until they can read a book. If you can do this, if you're disciplined enough and capable of memorizing, sit down and learn japanese. This is THE way.

If you cannot, just do immersion. Pick a day two weeks from now and from that day onwards your phone, computer, browser, social media and videos are all in your target language. The prime issue with this is that it only works if you already know what words mean, else you'll just start clicking until you get to "printer settings" if you need it, so it loses effectiveness very quickly if you have a job. The secondary issue is that you need to study anyways, immersion is NOT an alternative to study. You can know how to read 機, but do you actually know how to write it? Did you study the strokes, did you study both readings? Even if you know what it means and you can sort of infer what a word must mean, you still need to learn how to read most words and most kanji, which is something immersion cannot do. Game menus in japanese can only help you associate common words to common concepts, you still need to study definitions and readings.

Bilingual people have an easier time picking up a third language.

>>4569376
She got one on her mountains trip i bet

>>4569120
Isn't Mori literally a bottom feeder JET?

>>4568412
3 reasons
>immersion
Living in a country and interacting in the culture does wonders for your language
>work ethic
Her long stream marathons and 12 hour+ supa reading show that she doesn't have a problem sitting down and getting shit done and repeating kanji until they stick
>excellent memmory
She seems to be able to recall most of her supa paypigs by name/avatar/colour and one or two details they wrote.

Won't lie, Kiara inspired me to study japanese, and i'm seeing exactly what she meant about Duolingo only being able to teach so much
>Get the first 3 segments down to mastery
>No where to practice apart from reps
>Not alot of "build the sentence" that isn't very handholding (very few chances to mess up the order)
>No real speaking portions yet
>Ended up reaching out to a coworker who is half jap for conversation help

>>4569079
>"ah watame senpai ureshii"
>"waowao nihongo jouzu! how long have you been in japan, 6 months? you're really good!"
>"close to five years."
Imagine her shock. Mori if you're reading this please go do some kanji.

>>4569859
Didn't Mori have a stream where she was basically saying the idea of japan was more amazing that actually being in japan.
Hard to quote perfectly but basically "Something something you think this place is amazing and wonderful and then all the magic slowly leaves"
So maybe she is just there out of a grand claim she made before leaving the states

When you live in the country that speaks the language in question you're essentially learning 16 hours a day and not by choice.

Gura could probably do it actually if she is allowed to hang out with JP holos and did it long enough. 2 hours a day on streams plus studying could speed it up. You could also read Japanese forums I guess.

>>4568412
Kiara is literally, unironically, objectively, and demonstrably smarter and more motivated than any of the retards on this board.

She's shown signs of having a photographic memory in her chat, shit like identifying the regulars in her chat purely by typing style, you could make a brand new account and she'll sniff you out anyway.

Plus with previous idol experience, that necessitates learning dance routines and song lyrics.

>>4569962
Living in Japan is amazing, especially as shutin who wants to browse anime merch in akiba, eat his gyudon and be left along outside of interactions at work.
t. shutin who wants to browse anime merch in akiba, eat his gyudon and be left along outside of interactions at work

>>4569748
If that is the case then Kiara is actually a genius and with a very admirable work ethic to boot. Too bad she is also known for being menhera and one of the most hated vtubers in this platform.

>>4569781
And also because Duolingo's management is shit. Japanese is one of the most popular languages in their platform, and got free advertisement due to endorsement by numerous vtubers, yet they don't implement stories, scenario response and speaking tests for Japanese, lessons that could help if ever you were lucky enough to interact with IRL Japanese. Even now I use IME and Japanese speech recognition just to make Duolingo work.

>>4570119
Get your vaxxpass and see you next year in Tokyo anon

>>4569962
Thats everyone that has ever gone to japan to live there. People now have a much better idea and dont go expecting akihabara in every corner, but no one in the west really knows what its like to actually live in japan until you live in japan.
Also renting companies know you dont know about this, and never tell you, but apartments come with zero furniture and utilities, you have to buy your own shit and contact the water company on your own. They know you dont know and they choose not to tell you until you move in.
Also multi-stage, strategized and tactically sound cockroach invasion forces in older houses.

Japan has to be the country with the strongest separation between country-as-a-tourist and country-as-a-resident experiences.

>>4570327
>but apartments come with zero furniture and utilities, you have to buy your own shit and contact the water company on your own.
????
Plenty of apartments in the states are like this, anon.

these threads trigger my inner djt schizo so hard

Kiara is pretty awesome and pretty pretty

>>4570529
kek

>>4570327
I am living here and its a pretty sweet deal. Love how clean everything is, people leave you alone, service in shops is great, food is amazing and people at work are friendly enough. Granted, I am lucky that my company rents my place for me, so I don't have to deal with this shit.

I can see people getting really bitter about Japan if they don't bother to learn the language or follow the rules.

>>4570327
well shit, you might have saved me some mad dosh next year. Was offered to go next year for teaching for 3 months and was gonna get an apt assuming it'd be....not that

>>4570625
Do not go as english teacher. I am firmly convinced that is a trap for modern day slavery. If you wanna live in Japan be sure to have a half was decently paid non-teaching job.

>>4568500
then why is calli so naruhodo but not so?

>>4569781
Good luck learning a new lenguage, anon!
I also hope (you) find it really difficult!

>>4570690
Was gonna be English + Solidworks training and some inter-school good will, but yes, i've heard English Teacher in japan is like "maid" in UAE, just code for slavery

>>4570103
>>4570558
Based.

>>4568412
>books, duolingo and anki
ngmi

Photographic memory.

>>4570625
Your company is going to be your rent guarantor (required figure in japanese real estate) so if they usually have overseas people over they probably already have a place arranged, especially if its 3 months.
If you have to look for your own place make sure you ask if it comes with furniture + utilities. Having to go to an internet cafe every day because the internet company was to lazy to just flip a switch to give me internet when I signed my contract was a bitch to deal with.

>>4568412
It's easy to learn a new language if you have native speakers to talk to every day. How else did you learn your first language?

Get thrown into the wild and you'll be forced to learn.

>>4568500
How the fuck does that help you learn a language? If you don't know a word then you won't learn it in a normal conversation.

>>4570327
anon realized apartments come with no furnitures!!!!! what a revelation, what a cultural shock!!!!!1
seriously, if you want to move to japan (or any other country for that matter) you have to prepare physically and mentally, you will start your life from zero, you won't have anything at the start of the journey, just enjoy the journey, unless you want your previous life back
traveling changes people

I have so much time, I just wish I had the motivation

>>4571390
Rentals usually come with furniture, dumbchama. I travel for work, travelling really isnt that big of a deal unless you're poor and sunk all your money into moving to japan for no reason.

>>4569419
>if you did morphosyntactic analysis in HS (curricular in europe)
That shit was impossible for me to understand

t.spaniard

>>4570327
>Also renting companies know you dont know about this, and never tell you, but apartments come with zero furniture and utilities, you have to buy your own shit and contact the water company on your own. They know you dont know and they choose not to tell you until you move in.
Wow, just like the US.

>>4571514
Unless youre renting from a bulk real estate company, most renters furnish their apartments (even if its just the essentials) because most people are looking for turnkeys.
Where the fuck do you live that every apartment is unfurnished, brooklyn?

>>4571476
apartments that your workplace rents for you will always gonna have furniture, time wasted picking furniture is money wasted for the companies

>>4570708
think mori the spazzstick interacts with JOPs? lol
She probably has a little friend group that know enough english for her to not really worry about learning japanese beyond the bare minimum to buy food and pay her rent
As much as I dislike kiara, she is very extroverted, and can hyperfocus onto a project if she wants to. her making JOP friends probably wasn't too hard

>>4571664
But my company doesnt rent for me, I pick the flat within a price range and I send them the bill every month. Planes, too.
Apartments usually come furnished in most of the world. Some places have more unfurnished, some places have less, some places think a bed and a sofa counts as furnished, some places put way too much shit on the apartment. Only in Japan you actually have to ask because they put pictures of a flat with furniture and then its empty when you get there, and the norm is for apartments to come with literally nothing including curtains.

>>4568412
>polyglot
>German, English, Japanese
>only one (1) of those self-taught
that's not even that impressive.

>>4571807
she also has to learn Italian because she's Austrian

>>4569419
It also depends on your goals though, if you only want to read japanese you can very well just read while looking up words on a dictionary until it sticks, might also need a bit of additional grammar study but that's about it. If you want to also learn how to speak and write them yes that'll require more dedicated studying

>>4570119
except you probably get a bigger flat wherever you live right now, Akihabara is filled with fucking tourist niggers (mostly chinks and some murricans, both of which can be heard before you see them) and instead of searching the stores for the whole day to get one (1) specific item you're way faster ordering it online.
That and your whole building might croak at basically any moment due to lol earthquake / typhoon / Fuji finally erupts / tsunami

>>4571830
you mean 'had' to learn, right?
My 4 years of french got completely replaced with Japanese.

>>4571328
Reinforces the words you do know, and forces you to learn the meaning of new words. Also reinforces the right way of using the language i.e. word order etc. since you're speaking to a native usually

>>4570327
I dunno, I'd argue it's pretty much the same anywhere you go that cares even a little bit about getting tourism dollars: polished and sanitized areas tourists are expected to be, the actual country everywhere else.

Just look at Hawaii, the islands might be beautiful but the people living there are quite poor

>>4570327
>apartments come with zero furniture and utilities, you have to buy your own shit and contact the water company on your own.
Anon, that's the usual deal on most places around the world.

>>4571681
those friends groups are trash taste and its associates

>>4570327
>contact the water company on your own
what the fuck

i think you guys should make djt general too, it won't be as worse as /jp/djt

>>4568659
post more anime and talk less about political bs

>>4569962
I have a feeling that that's basically true for every new stage in life. There's an initial feeling of magic that slowly fades away as the new and exciting thing becomes commonplace. That's probably why some people always seek out new adventures.

>>4573719
Just make an "Embassy" and connect it with both /jp/ and /int/. One time i saw /qa/ did the same wih /s4s/.

>>4570327
>apartments come with zero furniture and utilities, you have to buy your own shit and contact the water company on your own
So like any normal apartment in any normal country?
It's the same here in Australia.
Unless the apartment's advertised as furnished (and therefore costs more) you'll need to buy your own stuff.

Ina taught herself japanese too and I wonder if she speaks Korean too

>>4573943
> I wonder if she speaks Korean
She's literally Korean you dumbass.
She also mentions speaking Korean in her debut stream you braindead moron.

>>4573943
>she's literally Korean
정신차려, idiot

>>4569079
Mori's pronunciation is so shockingly poor. It's funny how Ame and Gura know zero Japanese (beyond extreme basics) and yet can pronounce words better than Mori.

>>4571328
>If you don't know a word then you won't learn it in a normal conversation.
But that's how I learned most of my English. You can figure out meaning from context, you know?

>>4571328
why are EOPs so dumb

>>4571437
just do it man go to /int/djt and start now

>>4568412
German requires high IQ to learn.

>>4574368
Only if you already know enough to understand the context.

Am I the only person on the planet who can see she's half jap so she must have been exposed to it since an early age

She has a photographic memory

>>4570138
Being Menhera is a side effect of being a genius sadly :(

>>4574745
She just has weird eyes, Anon. Japs don't want to go to Austria.

>>4574821
Yeah you guys are fucking retarded

My oshi inspired me to finally try learning Japanese. I picked up hiragana and katakana in a couple afternoons and am working through Wanikani with a little Kanji Damage. It was mindblowing to look at her Twitter and be able to recognize the kana and pick out some words from what were random scribbles a couple days ago.

>>4570138
That's a nice way of describing a mentally ill weeaboo.

>>4569859
>>4569962
Mori recently said her Japanese is absolute shit. It doesn't get much better than "naruhodo ne"
In terms of Japanese knowledge in HoloEn, it's:
Kiara>Ina>Mori>Gura>Watson.
Kiara is fluent, Ina can easily hold a casual conversation, Mori can understand a bit of basic Japanese, Gura also can understand a bit of Japanese, but can't really hold a conversation, Watson can make gremlin noises mocking Japanese.

>>4569419
I appreciated this effortpost. Thank you.

once you know a couple thousand words, the fastest way to improve is just to read and listen to native media

Her roommate made a video where she explained how she learned it.
She basically just streamed on NND and pretended to speak Japanese using google translate until she was able to speak it.

>>4574889
Nice! Keep it up!

>>4574892
Like, 90% of weebs have some form of mental illness

>>4574927
>Watson can make gremlin noises mocking Japanese.
False. I've seen plenty of both Gura and Amelia and their Japanese is on the exact same level, except Gura's pronunciation is much better when it comes to singing (obviously). They can both read at the same level and understand a few set phrases, that's as far as their ability goes.

>>4575135
>She basically just streamed on NND and pretended to speak Japanese using google translate until she was able to speak it.
Pretty much a solid form of immersion and the tried and tested "you learn by doing". It's something that EOPs don't seem to grasp either. Many of the ESL anons on here who can speak English to a very capable standard got to that level in a very similar way that Kiara did with her Japanese; They immersed themselves in the language on the internet, watching videos/streams in English and forced themselves to communicate for years using websites just like here. Older anons will have used things like internet forums, chat rooms, older video games from a time when groups were much less common and everyone just spoke over the in-game voicechat.

Anki, grammar apps and textbooks will work. But it's not as effective as the above. It's a meme at this point, but the simple fact is the fastest way to learn a language is to "just do it".

>>4575135
which is hilarious and astonishing how she managed to use the power of German autism and being a hardcore idolfag to learn one of the hardest languagea on earth.

>>4575835
>Anki, grammar apps and textbooks will work. But it's not as effective as the above.
I disagree. SRS, textbooks, grammar guides, etc are way more efficient to get a surface understanding of words, gammar, etc. People using those things also do immersion since it's necessary to get a deeper understanding of things.

>>4575835
You're right. That's why I go to jp and speak Japanese with all the other Japanese speakers. Total immersion.

>>4568412
I might hate kiara, but if you actually really want to learn a language like japanese then go and start learning your japanese.Stop being so fucking lazy about it. Every day that you put it off thinking "I'm going to learn it later, I'm going to learn it tomorrow" is a full day that you spend not learning another language. You are limiting yourself, OP. There is no cookie dookie fun and easy way to learn japanese and various phrases to make you conversationally fluent.
Interweave your japanese into part of your speech. Remember all the cringe youtube vids of the early 2000's of kids inserting japanese language while pretending to be japanese or whatever? Do it. Take it to online games with foreign voice chat so you can try to speak and talk.
Stop giving excuses as to why you haven't learned it. If you want to learn, start learning. Yes it'll be tedious. Yes it'll suck. But you'll thank yourself later for putting that time and effort when suddenly you can understand what someone like korone is saying.
Time is ticking away. Don't be a faggot about it.
And her learning japanese would also have in part of likely moving to japan and being in that world where she'd have to learn it if she wanted to get around places.

>>4574745
>>4574821
Please give context i'm stoopid.

>>4575135
It's impressive how the most "stupid" on the Gen En is one of the "smartest".

Explaining what Kiara did would be doxxshit so I won't do that. I have this guide from somewhere, maybe it helps someone: https://files.catbox.moe/xpogjq.png
My personal experience is that the harder you immerse without crutches (listen and read while looking everything from the ground up without direct, convenient translation tools), the better. If we'd talk about an EFL learning another Germanic language, I'd say just immerse, you already bring everything you need with you. For Japanese you need more of a fundamental understanding, so obviously you have to learn your kana and kanji and listen or read some grammar explanations in a language you are familiar with. But still, immerse. Pain makes progress.
>>4569419
Great effortpost. I heard Yotsuba is a good way to learn, and I agree with the rest. Still haven't started with reading it, yet...

>>4569079
she only interacts with other english speakers there and japs only when necessary pls undastand

>>4568412
I remember reading something stupid like theirs only 120k people who speak Japanese as a fluent second language and immediately gave up trying.

>>4573653
Never had an apartment without a refrigerator, or one that already had stuff like a couch or tables.

>>4568412
Apparently it's all about input or something like that. All of the Indian people I've me who learned decent english did it through watching American TV.

>>4569419
Great effort post anon.

>>4574745
no you're not the only person to mistakenly assume she has any Asian ancestry

>>4573977
>>4574133
so that's why Ayame and Mel hate her so much

>>4568500
just watching and reading nothing but japanese media will give you the same full immersion japanese neet experience.

>>4571595
anon, unfurnished apartments are far more common than furnished apartments in america(i've never actually seen a furnished apartment in my area of ohio), most people aren't willing to spend more money on rent because they're too lazy to buy their own shit.

>>4571328
that's how you learned you first language anon

>>4570327
Lol, doesnt sound as bad as living in a third world hellhole. Its just first world problems that you fags are complaining about.

>>4581139
your parents literally explain to you what everything is and means, it's not normal conversations

>>4574194
Gura can at least read hirgana and katakana. To be fair, Mori will sometimes put on the English accent for words because she feels embarrassed faking a Japanese accent. That's my rrat at least.

>>4574745
Shes said before she’s “100% Austrian”

Rules broken:
1. Off topic
2. RL / roommate talk
Can't wait to see 60+ samefag IPs get deleted at once ( again ) kek

>>4582691
meds

>>4568412
i know a brazilian that lives in japan for almost 10 years and he never learned japanese

>>4568412
watching anime (that you understand in the full scale-level context) RAW can get you to Kiara learning curve.

>>4571595
you're out of touch if you think this is common

>>4571681
She does (with J-but-ESLs rappers)

>>4576020
>Japanese
>Hardest language
Burger bro...

>>4574566
Because MUH freedom and burgers

>>4574889
いい調子だね!頑張れよ、Anon君!

>>4578360
So that's why Twap likes her, huh.

>>4569079
wigger brain pls undastad

>>4574194
Amelia isn't even an actual weeb she's just a failed twitch variety streamer who decided to jump on the vtuber trend. The only time she watched anime was with her ex-boyfriend. She doesn't have her own taste or fandom just what he exposed her to. He's also the reason she even jumped on the vtuber trend.

>>4586080
based boyfriend

>>4574889
Keep up the spirit until kanjis!

>>4568412
You can't learn that shit in 6 months.

>>4568412
She lived in Japan
She pushed herself to be an idol
It was do or die or her

You don't live in Japan, you are not going to be an idol, and you can drop learning Japanese whenever you want because nobody you know actually speaks the language or will require you to speak it in order to interact with them.

Truth is
The game was rigged from the start

>>4577226
Guess I'm learning with mori

>>4574889
What was the name of the phone app that was great for leaning hiragana and katakana? I wanted to learn years ago, but was too much of a lazy shit to keep going and forgot the little bit I learned.

>>4588017
>app
https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/kana.html
just grind it for a week and move on

>>4588087
Thanks. Bookmarking that shit right away.
Only reason I mentioned phone app, was because I could use my finger to learn the strokes and didn't need to be at my PC

>>4588250
>bookmarking

start right now faggot, it has hiragan/katakana trainer to start from there

>>4585593
what's the hardest then

>>4588087
>practice kana for a week

>>4587657
you can if you live there and are a Streamer/Idol
Kiara was completely immersed in the language and had Japanese guys correcting and teaching her phrases constantly when she streamed
the other side is that level of culture shock is going to literally be hell for 3-6 months, enough to give some people mental breakdowns. on the other side though if you go through it is fluency

>>4589108
then how come the trash taste crew and mori havent learned much beyond hajimemashite

>>4589166
Because they don’t interact with Japanese people or study.
They’re the type of people to only hang out with foreigners.
It’s like coming to America as a non English speaker and only living in the immigrant communities.

>>4568571
this is true
bilinguals have a much easier time learning a third language
americuck monolinguals seethe

A good way to simulate living in Japan is to just watch Japanese television shows with Japanese subtitles and immerse yourself.

>>4589166
if you use your Gaijin card too much you won't learn
multiple learning channels have mentioned that you can get by with very little in Japan if you really want to, and the temptation to keep using your Gaijin card is pretty high

>>4589166
I've heard unless you really force it or live in the middle of Tokyo or don't look like a Gaijin, Nips can straight up refuse to talk to you in Nipspeak

>>4577226
>more /djt/, anki, and tae kim shilling from a failed /jp/ autist
away!

>>4589020
arabic

>>4589166
i'm pretty sure they already talked on stream about how they never actually need japanese to live in a big city in japan, the most they speak with natives is at the conbini which is just bringing shit up to the cash register to get ringed up and resturants where they have english menus and you can just point to the pictures. not to mention every jap will try to speak to you in english since they have 0 expectations that you understand japanese, while they all recieved a very basic education of english.

the only way you are ever forced into needing japanese to survive is if you don't live in a town tourists don't bother with and so nothing is in english and the people are far less likely to have bothered practicing english at all.

>>4589166
They're all in Tokyo, they don't need to learn

>>4589166
i'm pretty sure they already talked on stream about how they never actually need japanese to live in a big city in japan, the most they speak with natives is at the conbini which is just bringing shit up to the cash register to get ringed up and restaurants where they have english menus and you can just point to the pictures. not to mention every jap will try to speak to you in english since they have 0 expectations that you understand japanese, while they all received a very basic education of english.

the only way you are ever forced into needing japanese to survive is if you live in a town tourists don't bother with and so nothing is in english and the people are far less likely to have bothered practicing english at all.

>>4569419
this gives me hope that my two years of reading japanese textbooks has not gone to waste

>>4589166
the hafu one is actually fluent in japanese and has interviewed a lot of big names (Kizuna Ai, ShindoL, Goblin Slayer author, KonoSuba author)

>>4589931
arabic has an alphabet

>>4590409
their alphabet doesn't contain vowels (expect for alif but that doesn't count)

>>4587657
>You can't learn that shit in 6 months.
That's true. What Kiara learned in six months was NND japanese. Casual online lingo, basically.

When she moved to Japan and became an idol, she basically crash-coursed Japanese for polite company on top of that.

>>4569419
>, browser, social media
hey anon do you know how to visit 4chan cousins like futaba and 5chan?

any jap youtuber you recommend

>>4568412
Have you ever considered that she might be lying? Maybe her dad remarried a japanese or she has a japanese boyfriend. Maybe she minors in japanese at university.

>>4590633
>she basically crash-coursed Japanese for polite company on top of that.
which is still impressive. that's the type of work you required for 3 letter agencies

"Learning Japanese in 6 months" is misleading because learning is a never-ending process, like >>4590633 noted. It's not about a time window, it's about how many actual hours of dedication you put into it.

>>4590698
i am not Japanese

t. her boyfriend

>>4590712
it's not the fluency in 6 months you retards are making it out to be
you can definitely get to conversational japanese in less time and functional japanese in even less
functional in 6 months is definitely doable for most people, conversational if it's a full time job

>>4590557
have you seen japanese?

>>4590769
show us the english equivalent of this "functional" or "conversational japanese"

いい天気ですね

>>4589808
What would you recommend? What's wrong with Tae Kim? What about Imabi? Inhowfar is saying "Anki offers and teaches you nothing about Japanese, you just don't have to write the code yourself if you can RTFM" shilling?

to anyone who's an esl here, think about how you learned english, then apply it to japanese

>>4590938
have you seen arabic grammar?

>>4591042
there's nothing wrong with tae kim. supposedly it "gets things wrong", in the sense that it presents a model of japanese that might clash with other models that you might come across (see his opinion on the ga particle), but that's not a really issue. you don't really have to worry about those things this early. all it matters is that tae kim presents you the basic grammar very quickly and it'll immediately allow you to understand a lot of japanese. when you feel like you want to go more in-depth, then you can go to other sources like imabi, or when you want to see other point of views. but when it comes to getting you to read native material as fast as possible, nothing that I know of beats tae kim.

>>4591045
I learned english by watching cartoons
somehow it doesn't for for japanese

>>4590994
"good weather is it"

>>4591264
btw not him

>>4581659
you're childless
kids literally just pick stuff up, you don't have to explain anything

>>4591221
inb4 t. failed /jp/ autist
I am kidding, thanks a whole lot for elaborating on this.

>>4591312
yeah they just connect to the wifi and learn words from nothing you retard

>>4591436
you are a retard an born man child, i picked my 2nd language from mostly watching cartoons, kids can learn mostly from input only.

fucking EOPs

>>4591045
Doesnt apply because I can read every european language. You dont know what it means but you can read the words and try to make sense of it only knowing 40% of the words and infering the rest.
You cant read japanese.
明治以降、家畜を襲う害獣として懸賞金まで懸けられた徹底的な駆除などの複合的な原因によって絶滅したと思われている is just moonrune glyphs that you cannot read if you dont know japanese.
Japanese is harder than most other languages because for every word you learn you have to learn its associated kanji and readings.

>>4591312
it takes kids a full 1-2 years before they even become vocal and up to another year before they have semi-complex sentences together
and this is while they are literally 24/7 sitting around doing nothing but processing information and learning as fast as they can

>>4591524
fundamentals are same with extra layer kanji reading

>>4591616
My point is you cannot "pick up japanese" like you can french or italian. You can learn english by reading posts in english and googling the words you dont know, because you can READ the posts in english. You can read these symbols on your screen and relate them to sounds even if you dont know what those sounds mean.
You cannot read japanese until you learn how to read japanese, which is already your end goal. There's not an extra kanji layer, you quite literally cannot read japanese at all if you dont know around 1500 kanji. You can speak and you can listen, but you literally cannot read.

>>4591436
You seem to misunderstand that anon. Of course you interact with them, but you don't need to point out what the grammar rules or the phonetic inventory is. Toddlers/children literally learn a language they have no reference frame for through years of immersion. They do that by practicing sounds and words and sentences until they manage to imitate their older peers on an intuitive and conversational level. By the time they can think of abstract analytical questions about verbs and tenses and all that, they pretty learned how to ask them in their own words, i.e. on a conversation level.
And you can learn that way too, but you'll sure be able to formulate how much it fucking sucks to go through that a second time in life compared to using the reference frame you already have.

>>4568500
Djt is fucking retarded. Useful for its resources only

>>4570510
Difference is, the US' main language is the most commonly spoken language in the world (mainly as a second language) while Japanese is literally spoken by 1/10th of the people who speak English. This means that unlike with Japanese, you are much less likely to face language barrier issues while dealing with shit like utilities and furniture, and it's much easier to dupe an unexpecting foreigner into buying an apartment like this.

>>4591769
well i am an asian esl so we have complexly different foundations i guess sorry for making you type so much.

>>4591778
just go to itazuraneko, they shill wakashit sometimes

>>4568412
>Supposedly became fluent in 日本語, on her own and entirely self taught, without relying on paid linguistics professors. If the rrats are right, she learned it in just 6 MONTHS.

I know a lot of people on this board don't wanna hear this, but Kiara is legitimately smart

>>4591778
unfortunately learning japanese you only run into 2 types of people online
>redditors who are on their 10th try of using rosetta stone and duolingo
>obnoxious djt posters who tell you to kill yourself constantly if you don't use their specific anki deck and read tae kim daily

>>4568464
She went to Japan already knowing the language.

>>4591508
>kids
everyone can learn from input

>>4591966
i wonder where scalators pop up from

>>4568464
I heard that was a myth.

>>4591908
lots of variability with EN intelligence it seems

>>4568412
She herself said she interacted with Japanese people and that helped improve so much in such a short time
She talked with japanese people and was in japanese boards constantly. thats all

>>4591908
>Praising yourself
Nice try Kiara.

>>4591772
I'm not talking about grammar or whatever the fuck you're going on about. You can't learn words without someone explaining to you what the words are.

>>4576434
You can do this online now btw. Either pay for a conversation partner/tutor or talk to randos in vrchat language discos

>>4592542
>You can't learn words without someone explaining to you what the words are.
of course you can, are you an EOP by chance?

>>4578360
Whats the Ayame and Mel rrat. Where does it actually show that they hate her?

>>4592607
are you retarded by chance?

>>4591220
have you seen japanese grammar? lol what question is this

>>4592542
my 2 year old nephew uses words no one has explained to him
he just hears them in certain contexts, imitates the sound and sees how others react
his understanding is built up in a natural way, without the need for definitions

>>4592542
>I'm not talking about grammar or whatever the fuck you're going on about. You can't learn words without someone explaining to you what the words are.
you think people are going around explaining tens of thousands of words to their kids? they figure most of them out on their own

>>4592705
Bruh just use context clues to determine the meaning. Haven't you ever seen a movie in language similiar to yours? This shit is done sub-consciously, you don't even need to focus too much.

>>4591769
>You cannot read japanese until you learn how to read japanes
yomichan

>>4568571
I speak 3, Japanese is weird as fuck tho

>>4592734
I've seen both and arabic grammar is miles more complicated

>>4592705
t. mastered "como estas"

>>4592738
his sentences would be composed of literally random words if he didn't understand what he was saying
>>4592811
obviously they don't explain every single fucking word that exists in the language, but they do teach a lot. a kid points at an object that he doesn't know or asks about a word he's never heard before and the parent explains to the kid what the fuck that is, he doesn't get this information out of thin air

>>4571328
>i don't understand, how does playing an instrument everyday improve your skill at playing an instrument

>>4591769
i know 1500 kanji and i could read some japanese way before that

>she learned it in just 6 MONTHS
Highly doubt that since she's still far from fluent.

>>4592926
>obviously they don't explain every single fucking word that exists in the language, but they do teach a lot. a kid points at an object that he doesn't know or asks about a word he's never heard before and the parent explains to the kid what the fuck that is, he doesn't get this information out of thin air
plenty of parents who don't explain shit to their kids and they still end up fluent. they'd figure out those words out on their own eventually in the absence of parental guidance

>>4568571
I'm a seanegro and english is already my third language and yet I'm still having difficulty with japanese care to explain that?

>>4592975
what they mean is she could hold small talk with minor hiccups in 6 months, which anyone can do with some practice

>>4592926
btw why are you so mad about this? it's like you're salty that you've failed to learn spanish

>>4593019
why do you expect no one to call you out when you're being a moron?

>>4592995
you post on 4chan instead of 5chan

>>4593063
the only one being called out is you, languagelet-chama

>>4568571
Not really. English and German are extremely similar. Japanese is alien compare to them.

>>4568412
>>4592975
>>4593008

Kiara actually learned Japanese in just 5 months and was fluent as well

turn on subs

https://youtu.be/Rt_oalr6uXQ

>>4593063
you've literally never learned a second language if you think somebody has to explain anything to you. just watch unsubbed cartoons bro. how do you think a child gets their language skills up to the point where a parent can even explain anything to them? it's just picked up naturally.

>>4568412
It was beaten into her during a wrestling match

>>4592738
no, your 2 year old nephew uses words that have been explained to him over and over by his parents over the course of 2 years
yeah man a parent pointing at a dog and saying "doggie" a million times doesn't count as explaining words anon

>>4593148
please don't summon meidos, it's actually a good video

>>4593148
>t. doesn't understand what fluency is
ok doxfag

How do I get discipline to do more than just anki?
I'm 2500 cards in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSvH9vH60Ig&list=PLg9uYxuZf8x_A-vcqqyOFZu06WlhnypWj&index=1

Let the android vtuber teach you japanese ORAGANICALLY

>>4593157
you are literally a retard if you think this

>>4593290
Why do you learn the japanese? Do that.

>>4593290
What else is there to even do?

>>4593196
only a subset of the words he knows were explicitly taught
the ones that surprise us are the ones that are picked up by observation and context
this also happens with grammatical structures by the way
no one teaches him those, yet he picks them up because he notices how they are used

>>4593148
this girl speaks a very basic and formulaic japaneese. still good for 5 months (if true) but far from fluent.

>>4593327
well i learned japanese and you didnt

>>4593365
nobody just sits around and suddenly learns the meaning of a word you fucking retard, it has to be explained

>>4593423
how do you explain something to somebody who doesn't know any words?

>>4593423
you are either baiting or are very, very dense

>>4593365
yes if you sit around for 2 years and literally all of your fucking brainpower goes into learning the meanings of words 24/7 you can learn the most broken baby sentences of a language
that's not how adults learn and if you want to learn like that I hope you have fun waiting 15 years to be able to talk in japanese

>>4593148
Jesas she truly has photographic memory kek

>>4593423
yeah explain the meaning of the word explain to a child

>>4593445
they heard the word used, asked what it meant, found out, remembered it

or they saw an object they don't know the word for, asked what the word is, found out, remembered it

language isn't an innate fucking thing you idiot

>>4593540
(You)

>>4593540
ok but what if you don't know anything. how do you explain "then" or "and" or "but"
kids just learn it automatically

>>4590682
>any jap youtuber you recommend
Anon... I...

>>4593607
don't bother arguing with EOPs

>>4593607
nobody learns anything automatically, everything comes from somewhere

holy shit you're an actual retard

>>4593635
i specified because i want some thing more classic YouTube not streaming stuff

>>4593290
Honestly this is where I'm at, 3k words down and can read basic sentences but I still am a deer in headlights watching streams and the motivation to whip out yomichan on twitter posts and 2ch just never comes.

>>4592542
Yes you can and do. Just as a simple heuristic: How many words do you think you know, and how many of them have been explained to you? How do you think a toddler learned to ask what a word means, much less that asking will yield an explanation in the first place?
The fuck I was going on about is even more abstract, and yet even a toddler picks it up; you don't go to >your child and teach it fricatives, or tell it that sentence structure is SVO in indicative statements and VSO or ASVO in interrogative statements. They will speak and get it wrong. They will speak again and eventually get it right. They can tell wrong and right apart through immersion.

>>4593340
To read manga and vns and watch anime without TLs
I can read some doujins but vns and manga all have 1 trillion words i don't know yet

>>4593290
same, i started reading VNs, it's fun and there a lot of words to mine

>>4568571

This. Kiara had all the tools at her disposal. She was young, bi-lingual, and immersed. Perfect recipe for language learning

>>4593672
they're baiting you anon, stop responding to the weird pedantic ESLs

>>4593879
bro, a word of advice from an ESL: I learned most of my english by playing old RPG vidya and translating any unnkown word in a fucking physical dictionary.

>>4589216
You reminded me of when i was telling some friends i wanted to one day move to Texas and they told me
>Nice! There are a lot of Spanish speakers in Texas, you'll feel right at home!
As if i wasn't moving to America because i hate being surrounded by spics

>>4593878
There has never been a time I came across a word I've never seen before and innately knew the meaning of it by virtue of some fucking linguistic mental internet innate to the human race you fucking schizo. I look it up in a dictionary and then use the words that were previously taught to me by my parents, school, or previous dictionary dives to read the explanation for the word and understand what it means.

>>4593952
>young
this "period of learning" shit has been disproved by linguistics professors
adults learn languages just as well as kids, kids just learn automatically because they do literally nothing but sit and process information for a solid 5 years before they really do anything else
in terms of vocab and raw memorization, adults are immensely better than children and learn much faster
it just seems faster with kids because they learn automatically while they aren't doing anything else

>>4593540
How did they ask for the meaning of a word when they knew no words?

>>4593184

>>4593956
>t. retarded EOP

>>4594087
>how can I know what momma means when my mom points to her face and says momma a million times?

>>4593663
What's EOP? Google says educational opportunity program.

>>4592646
don't know about Mel, but I think the shit with Ayame was because Ayame didn't like Ina's artwork on twitter?

>>4594087
They learn their first words by having their parents point to objects and repeatedly saying the word for them.

>>4594138
it's a dumb insult that SEAniggers made to cope with the fact they blow at English

>>4593148
So basically you need to actively listen and translate stuff. Sounds tiring fuck that.

>>4594138
English only peasant. I kid you not, some people only know a single language.

>>4594183
just do the Pikamee thing
when you're just mumbling to yourself or around the house say something in english and then think of how to say it in Japanese immediately
practice it a few thousand times when you're just cleaning or playing games or whatever and thinking in Japanese will get ingrained into your head

>>4594183
Nothing worthwhile comes easy.

>>4585593
it's the hardest from the native english speaking perspective.
source: the federal bureau in charge of training diplomats

>>4594213
*laughs in trilingual*

>>4593944
But mining is a pain because I have to add the words to anki manually

>>4586080
Damn shame he became an ex, based former holostar potential

>>4594213
Why learn a second language when there's no real incentive to?

>>4594287
I thought Korean has a similar alphabetic system, like Vietnamese. The more you know, I guess.

>>4594335
to watch the chuubas, duh

>>4594213
I figured out it was English Only through context, but couldn't figure out the P, thanks

>>4594213
half of the world speaks my language conversationally, why do I need to pick up and learn your retarded niggerspeak?

>>4594307
i'm using textractor + yomichan, works quite well
i also notice that the number of lookups has decreased a lot as i make progress

>>4589276
Seething and coping now. Time to do my Anki reps.

>>4594384
Its grammar is almost identical to Japanese

>>4594392
stop lying, nobody explained it to you

>>4594213
>I kid you not, some people only know a single language.
If that other language is not Japanese, you are still an EOP.

>>4594287
honestly if Japanese abandoned the retarded Kanji system like Koreans did it wouldn't be so hard to learn

>>4568412
Its easy to sound impressive when you're lying. I have no doubt that she could have taught herself how to read and write basic JP in 6 months but everyone knows she became fluent getting passed around by fat old ojisans in the junior idol industry.

>>4594391
well yeah, now I have an incentive to, but I didn't before.

>>4594486
it would definitely knock it down a category, america actually wanted to do that back when they were occupying japan, but there was too much pushback from the japanese government

>>4594486
That would be too sensible for the government to do so don't count on it.

>>4594486
reminder:
http://japaneseruleof7.com/are-japanese-people-retarded/

>>4594053
Thats bullshit your neuroplasticity is much greater as a kid. Learning vocab is more an aspect of discipline but truly learning nuanced usage of a language is much more difficult for a 25 year old than a 5 year old.

>>4594695
the critical period hypothesis has been debunked by modern research shut the fuck up retard and stop parroting 25 year old arguments

>>4594659
lmao pure JET cope

>>4593372
She is doing a Youtube video. Listen to her other stuff. She is fluent.

>>4569120
>peppeloni
Away!

>>4594470
lol good one

>>4568571
Amerimutt cope.

>>4594486
>honestly if Japanese abandoned the retarded Kanji system like Koreans did it wouldn't be so hard to learn
no it would be much harder to learn. kanji is a lifeline and if you don't understand that you haven't gotten past genki japanese

>>4594850
I've personally witnessed 6 year olds go from not knowing how to say hello to basic conversational capacity in 2-3 months and within the year their English is indistinguishable from any other kid their age. Meanwhile their mom still strugles to order off the starbucks menu.

>>4595048
justify this

>>4568464
Japanese people like minimal interaction with foreigners.

>>4595149
>who cares about the scientific community and their research into the critical period, I saw a 6 year old speak a sentence in english

>>4595179
this but the extreme opposite

>>4595155
chinese loanwords are the majority of the vocabularity and they sound very similar to each other. and a ton of them literally have 10+ homophones. if i see a chinese loanword in hiragana that i don't know i have to look it up. but if there's kanji i usually can read it and understand it, even fantasy words that aren't in the dictionary like 魔晄

>>4595203
how do you think machine learning works

>>4595396
anon shut the fuck up

>>4595396
what does purely mathemactical process has to do with psychology? are you just grasping for buzzwords now?

>>4595367
>Kanji is required so that Chinese faggots don't need to use a dictionary
lol cut it from the language fuck bugmen

>>4595367
how come spoken japanese doesn't have this problem

>>4595467
ydkj

this thread is exactly why a djt would be just as bad if not worse as the one in /jp/

>>4595482
you need to learn tens of thousands of words and kanji is the fastest way to get there for a non-native even if you don't care about reading. learning a couple thousand kanji is nothing in comparison to the real challenge of japanese

>>4568571
I wish. I knew both Spanish and English pretty much from birth, but my Italian is embarrassing (conversational but rusted by 10 years of disuse), my French is laughable, and I got thoroughly hard-filtered by German and Japanese.

The real limiter is English. Or rather, how easy it is to get by using English for absolutely everything while missing out on very little re - media and business, due to its status as a global language.

>>4568464
Mori has lived in Japan for years and can barely speak Japanese

>>4595512
i wanna move it here. any jannies opposed?

>>4595482
spoken uses context to tell you what word in meant like english homophones
that guy is a retard, you would just infer the intended word based on context like other context based languages, all removing kaji does is make things easier for westerners to learn and harder for chinks to learn

>>4595568
Argato, pizza-kun! Big ups!

Is it actually possible to learn Japanese through self-study or do you actually have to take classes?

>>4595552
sounds like a cope

>>4590712
funny you say that, old 2ch rrat back during her idol days was that "Kiara" was a secret agent

>>4595583
ok but you don't know japanese so you don't have that context. instead you're just getting confused. to get that context you want to learn the homophones instead of treating it like one word with a ton of unrelated meanings

>>4595568
we already mentioned in this thread that mori plays her foreigner card pretty much nonstop to get a pass in social situations
it's the easy way out but long term using that out over and over basically stagnates your understanding of the language since everyone uses only super simple words with you or just speaks english and gestures

>>4568412
>Poorfags
Are you retarded? She learned Japanese the same way everyone else does. Reading books, and taking advantage of free shit on the net. It's possible for anyone to achieve passable Japanese in 6 months if you put in a lot of effort. I studied whenever I had free time in high school and got out with mediocre Japanese, enough to understand what most of my favorite chuubas say. All free, only Pdfs, guides, and youtube videos.
>>4571328
I'm baffled as to how anons like this can post shit without thinking about how stupid they sound

>>4595582
just put "global" in the subject field and you're fine

>>4595614
the cope is that kanji is hard to learn and that you can "get by" without it

>>4595602
it's possible to get most of the way there through self study but if you want to be better than just acceptable, especially at speaking you are going to need a speaking partner or teacher to converse with frequently

>>4595657
?

>>4595659
seethe harder bugman

>>4595682

>>4595482
old games and a lot of japanese phone novels were written in nothing but kana and were legible, so the same way meaning can be inferred from context in spoken japanese works in written japanese, but japan has a love for kanji which is why they keep it around,

>>4595694
i know japanese and you mix up ソ and ン

>>4595778
old games made for children on limited hardware. if you took an adult novel and made it all kana it would be slow and arduous to read

>>4595620
>instead of using a universal system like kana where one sound always maps to a symbol, let's use complex brush strokes where you can't just sound out new words, you have to memorize the brush strokes
yes how genius anon, definitely better this way
>>4595806
bet

>>4595602
if you have the will to grind, you can actually learn faster by yourself, unless you have a great private tutor or something

>>4595884
>the will to grind
lol, more like the will to commit to an unrealistic schedule, burn yourself out, and then jerk off and play games to procrastinate like most of you fags do

>>4595878
>instead of using a universal system like kana where one sound always maps to a symbol, let's use complex brush strokes where you can't just sound out new words, you have to memorize the brush strokes
you don't know japanese. there's nothing to say if you believe this unironically.

>>4595848
JSL cope
reading phone novels wasn't a struggle for people who understood the language just like how you don't need someone to write out kanji for you when you speak to them

>>4595917
>>4595947
Begone bugmen back to chinkland with you
away

>>4595913
that happens because people have no patience and expect results right away, so they go in hard for a while, realize there's still a long way to go, then become frustrated and give up. learning any new skill is a marathon, not a sprint.

>>4595961
you will never learn japanese if you're afraid of kanji

>>4568412
>the rest of HoloEN decide to join Kiara in a twice a week Learning Japanese collab
>Kiara goes full Whiplash on them

you will never read an ehon made for children with no kanji if you're afraid of kanji

>>4596036
KINO

>>4595582
typically the threads have a cure dolly OP since she is a vtuber

>>4595917
then explain how are you supposed to know the pronunciation of a kanji you don't know when you're encountering it the first time if you're such a fucking expert
>inb4 just memorize them all

>>4594032
No person can you tell you what a word means without using other words whose meaning you must know already to understand what they tell you. This is an iterative process. You don't burn dictionary definitions into your brain. How else did you learn the first words you needed in order to understand the first explanations of your parents? The answer cannot be fucking pointing at things as a toddler because most words don't refer to a physical object to point at.

>>4596067
cure dolly global

you definitely need to start learning kanji from day 1 if you wanna go far. i've been using the kodansha kanji learners deck, but there are others. you can also try wanikani if you dont like rote memorization, but it can be slow.

>>4595878
I guses you dn'ot konw Esilngh etiehr.

>>4596096
Sometimes you can tell via the radicals, but why is being able to pronounce it that important? If it's on a computer it takes half a second to look up the reading with yomichan.

>>4596104
>no dude you don't understand there's a linguistic neural network that only kids can access, that's how they just know the words innately

>>4595203
>scientific community
All I've seen so far is your blubbering. Why don't you post a link to one of the many research papers you've undoubtedly thoroughly studied, I'm sure the full context will 100% back your assertion and in no way make you look like an asshat.

>>4596209
>why is being able to pronounce it that important?
WEW THE COPE

>>4596096
you look it up in a radical dictionary then remember it. it has multiple readings but you develop an intuition for guessing which readings will be used in a word.

>>4593148
>everytime i read out loud a new comment it would not leave my memory anymore
>just by reading it out loud one time, i just picked it up everytime
Holy shit the photographic memory rrat is true???

>>4568412
She has been in Japan many years, not just six months. Look up her old persona.

>>4596119
>wanikani if you dont like rote memorization, but it can be slow.
wanikani is not slow

>>4594032
well it happens to me all the time in japanese. 歌声
saw this yesterday and i just understood it and knew how to read it

>>4596272
fuck off doxxfag, at least doxx enough to know what you're talking about

>>4596219
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12564751/
Noam Chomsky also rescinded the critical period theory and no longer believes in it

>>4596312
>japanese coauthor
>spreading disinformation that it's possible to learn japanese

>>4596272
Dumb newfag

According to DJT all you need is Anki and Tae Kim to learn Japanese

>>4596240
Yes, what's the point of being able to say a word you don't know?

>>4596354
to ask the definition
If I don't know what a dog is and I see it in a book I can literally just say "what is a dog" and because I know how to say it someone can just explain it to me

>>4596279
i was comparing it to, say, going through 5-10 kanji cards per day with anki. not trying to say wanikani is bad btw.

>>4596354
>"[pronunciation] translate to english"
wew

>>4595878
the reason why they won't is easy. Kanji looks better. that's literally the only reason. Have you ever seen a sentence that's only Hiragana? It looks ugly as fuck.

>>4596402
okay give us your definition of a dog without looking it up

>>4596486
>without looking it up
nah, I will just look it up

>>4596486
blow me faggot

Well you see, son, a dog is a domesticated carnivorous mammal that typically has a long snout, an acute sense of smell, nonretractable claws, and a barking, howling, or whining voice.

>>4596402
the advantage of Japanese kanji is that you can guess what words mean from the kanji/radicals. In VNs I can cut down on looking up words I don't know because I already know what the kanji means and can make a pretty good guess as to its meaning whereas if I were learning a Latin-based language I'd have to look up the dictionary all the time because you can't tell the meaning from the writing alone.

>>4596588
>he doesn't know about latin roots

>>4596588
>the advantage of Japanese kanji is that you can guess what words mean from the kanji/radicals.
not to any practical extent

>>4596625
you don't know japanese

>>4596588
shit like this is present in every single language and it doesnt need any edgy squiggles to work

>>4596625
>t. someone that's never literally any literature in Japanese

>>4596656
why are you so intimidated by kanji? it's just chinese

>>4596676
>it's just chinese

>>4596660
i think you mean
t. someone that's never literally anything in Japanese

>>4596656
No it's not. If you saw words like "Besmirch" or "Wont (not won't)" would you be able to extrapolate what it means right away? Maybe when paired with context clues. However, a problem like this is not present in Japanese. In most cases, the kanji alone is sufficient enough to give you the meaning of the word.

>>4596762
No, it's almost never enough. If you don't know the kanji, you're fucked.

>>4596409
WK has ~8900 (counting definition and pronunciation cards as 1 card). It takes ~1 year to finish going max speed. That's an average of 24 cards per day.

>>4596762
To add to that, kanji also has the benefit of being "super specific." Words can mean the same thing, but you can swap out the kanji in a word for other kanji with similar meaning. This leads to a lot of creative uses in written literature.

>>4596216
>that only kids can access
No, EVERYONE. This is why you can go full immersion to a foreign country and learn the language without ever having anyone explain a single word or concept to you in YOUR language. I talk about children because I thought you'd understand that you were in an analogous situation, except the country of origin being you're mom. The critical period hypothesis, has jackshit to do with it. Also try to answer the questions instead of playing gotcha, ffs.

>>4596402
>to ask the definition
Just show them or describe the kanji. Alternatively, look it up in a dictionary yourself.
>>4596422
You can use a dictionary without pronunciation.

>>4596981
No, you can't, retard. You won't extract the meaning of words out of thin air, it simply doesn't work that way.

i got an easier example for you きょうげき
wtf is this? you pump it into jisho and get... "classical chinese opera?" cant be that because it's a battle command in ff7. but ff7 has kanji so you see 強撃 and instantly know what it means and how to pronounce it even though it's a fantasy word not in the dictionary.

>>4597039
if you dont know what 強撃 is then you dont even know how to fucking read it

>>4596898
my favorite is writing an english word in katakana as furigana with the kanji as the meaning

>>4597014
Other people aren't thin air, anon.

>>4597071
It's just the onyomi for both as it's a kanji compound.

>>4597071
what do you think it's ごうげき? it's きょうげき

>>4593148
uoooh
15 y/o Kiara
sounds kinda like I learned English, trying to understand context of cartoons I watched and trying to formulate phrases from my native language to English and vice versa

>>4596822
The jouyou kanji is numbered at around 2000+ kanji. around 1000 is needed for approx. 90% comprehension. that might seem like a big number but keep in mind that there are probably tens of thousands of words used in daily language. That number can easily 10x or even 100x because of the unique language used in literature that uses a lot of uncommon words. Try comparing IRL English to FF14 English or WoW English. The 2000+ kanji number becomes insignifcant when compared to the amount of unique words you'll encounter in mediums like video games.

oh my bad i misread that lmao. should have known he couldn't read it whatsoever and wasn't using the wrong reading lmfao

>>4597111
If by "immersing yourself" you actually mean "hiring a teacher who'll translate words for you" then yeah go ahead and immerse yourself all you like.

>>4597071
Anon those are N5 kanji

>>4597191
>he's back after being thoroughly BTFO

>>4597071
the point is if they just had きょうげき written there you would have no hope whatsoever as a kanji-illiterate. maybe you can figure it out from context if you're familiar with the underlying kanji that might be used in this situation but you might confuse it for something else

>>4596216
Critical Period Theory is thoroughly disproven and not pushed anymore by linguists

>>4597071
if you know the meaning of 強 and the meaning of 撃 then you can guess the meaning of 強撃. I've personally never seen this word though.

>>4597191
Okay, and now back to the toddler. What language speaks its teacher to teach it its first language? How do you explain "be" using hand gestures and the purportedly thin air it must be able to understand it.

>>4597226
>you might confuse it for something else
>t. faggot who can't figure out too, two, and to without kanji

>>4597222
>he thinks the voices in his head will explain to him the meaning of foreign words

>>4597208
The second one is an N1 kanji.

>>4597269
Yes.

>>4597226
keep coping anon
we get it, you spent 2 years grinding anki to learn 10k kanji and now need to justify why it's actually a good use of your time

>>4597264
you don't know japanese let alone a second langauge

>>4597259
It's 挟撃, not 強撃, and it appears pretty often in military-themed anime and military history articles.

>>4597323
well yeah i can read japanese and you can't

>>4597277
You can find this specific kanji in a lot of intermediate Kanji (n4~n2) textbooks for English learners.

>>4597226
>きょうげき written there you would have no hope whatsoever as a kanji-illiterate
Isn't that where context would have to help you, in the same way it would have to help you in spoken language. The latter has intonation, but you could come up with a written form of "intonation" or pitch markers to substitute that.

>>4597323
you don't need to learn 10k kanji unless you plan to live in China

>>4597340
you're going to confuse 強撃 for 挟撃 if they get rid of kanji

>>4597376
*to introduce that into a writing system that can deal without kanji
At the same time, being next to japanese-illiterate, I cannot imagine it could work without kanji, but I can't say why it should work if you just talk to people.

>>4597277
The verb associated with it is N3 and it has basically the same meaning

>>4597376
>Isn't that where context would have to help you, in the same way it would have to help you in spoken language.
no because it's not a real word. it's a made-up fantasy word for a video game. you're just going to think it's a homophone that you know

>>4597262
Are you saying that toddlers use "be", and use it correctly, before they learn its meaning and purpose? Or are you saying the linguistic neural network compels toddlers towards an intrinsic understanding of "be"?

>>4597454
>it's a made-up fantasy word for a video game
so the context would help you

>>4597424
Kanji are not hanzi, you /jp/djt idiot. They don't even use the same stroke order or fonts.

>>4597481
i'm not native but i would still be confused why they called it pincer attack if the kanji weren't there for me to instantly understand

>>4597340
I looked at the comment above and it's probably just a word that means "strong attack" if it's used in an RPG like FF7

djts making fun of us again...

>>4597520
>djts are coping again...
fixed

>>4597337
>implying
japanese is my 3rd language I just don't act like a dunning kruger faggot because I spent 2 weeks on /djt/

>>4597519
yes. screenshot here
>>4597427

>>4597494
anon-kun, you do know where japanese kanji come from right?

>>4597520
t. lowercaseposting Jamal method cultist

>>4597501
lmao literally cannot stop coping and back pedalling

>>4597576
?

>>4597560
Do you think the Cyrillic alphabet, the Latin one, and the Greek one are all the same thing just because they come from the same root?

>>4597613
chinese people can learn japanese faster than kiara and to a higher level

>>4597613
are you being retarded on purpose???

>>4597544
sounds like you havent mastered katakana yet

>>4596312
>critical period
see this is the problem with spouting jargon you don't full understand. I specifically mentioned fully developed adults the critical period specifically referred to a range between 2-13. So that study is comparing young childeren and teenagers+ not adults vs children where the difference would be more extreme.

>>4597676
Yes.

>>4597574
>Jamal method
Whats that?

>>4597481
the world literally translates to "strong attack" from the kanji alone