/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>Soul vs. Soulless

i see Botan

>>41324968
>Quality vs. Quantity

>>41325011
>quality
Where?

>>41324919
Look at Gura's eyes! What do you call that other than perfection?

https://twitter.com/shin_umiushi_o/status/1390474532712960001
this preview video still makes me laugh

>>41324919
Shame on me for replying to obvious cherry picking bait, but the literal who on the right doesn't look that good compared to your average holo. When you have as many models as cover does it's inevitable that you get a shit roll every now and then. Also, Gura doesn't stream anyway, so who cares what her live2D looks like?

Classic Japanese stagnation. They invent something new, but never improve on it.

>>41324919
2views can afford to wait months for their live2d
it's literally that simple
https://twitter.com/KamishiroTaishi/status/1521093328363986944
have it straight from the rigger's mouth

umiushi still sucks tho, and there's a reason we haven't seen anything from them since then

>>41324919
more like your indie roastie should sit back and find out the reason why she's still been living in 2view hell despite having everything offering to the pedestal tray

>>41324919
>why
The goyim will eat the slop, so why spend a cent more? Just look at this thread.

>>41325011
>gura
>quality

>>41324919
You answered your own question. Cover is a business. They don't want to spend money (or time) on things that won't make them money. Delaying everything to make sure Gura isn't a rhombus isn't worth it unless she actually loses subs over it.

>It's another "LOL GURA RIGGING BAD" thread

>>41324919
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy1VbwdXQwI

Her model and rigging are indeed good.

It's honestly hilarious how far behind cover is. Anycolor too. Any Vshojo or indie can download vtube studio for next to nothing and immediately make hololive look like static PNGs

>>41324968
cope

>>41324919
She should've pulled an IRyS and put her foot down early on to get her face fixed. Now we're in too deep and she's stuck with it.

If you want to prove that a no body has a better l2d, you better gave us video or gif that shows how they move and their facial expression. JPG? Seriously?

Build vs buy, Cover thinks they're a tech company.

>Biggest EN male
>Cant uncross his arms

Speak for yourself chumpedo

>>41326234
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7T14z2DQjo

>>41326719
I dont disagree with the point, but Lily is hardly a nobody; it looks like she has like 6K CCV

>>41325212
>When you have as many models as cover does it's inevitable that you get a shit roll every now and then
It's more than "every now and then"

>>41324919
retarded fanbase, aka holobronies.

>>41327038
>cover choosing artists for their next gen

>>41327038
Vshojo seems to get new models every other fucking week. Each time they get more and more advanced too. Doesn't seem like a workload issue.

>>41327150
Wizards is doing the same thing for their anime alt arts on magic cards and it pisses me off so much.

>>41327150
I'd like to put all my money on "another chink gacha artist"

>>41324919
But anons say that Gura is only popular because of her model.

>millions of redditors posting about how kaba doesn't need good models because they have brand power and it doesn't bring in numbers or some shit

>>41326971
One of the reasons why she got so big was because of her model

>>41324919
because they're a business and they're out to make profit. Profit is revenue minus expenses. The left generates more revenue while the right generates more expenses.

>>41325011
>>41325486
>>41325625
Do you guys really think that when a gen has a bad model, that artist is paid less?

>>41327456
What are the savings when they have to completely remake a model from scratch because of how hard it sucked?

>>41325281
i don't watch this orca but she does have a gorgeous model

>>41325373
shitty excuses, look at idol corp. They debuted talents 4 months after auditions with top tier models and rigging

>>41327677
they're not remaking it lol

Whatever happened with Miko's hand tracking? I've never seen it in any other of her streams aside from those 2-3 relevant clips.
I thought it was quite cute and it was pretty good for a prototype.

>>41327789
>they're not remaking it lol
What does this cryptic, retarded comment mean?

>>41327865
that's not how thumb joints work, what the fuck

>>41326042
And I'd rather watch shubascuff rather than that boring af vhoejo orbiter whore.
Tens of thousands agree with me.

>>41328207
You're posting in this thread so it must bother you a little bit.

>>41326000
Holy fuck you weren't lying, I thought this was a 3D model at first glance

>>41325749
because it is. what's your point

>>41327247
They're not locked into the sunk cost of in-house r&d like cover is. Remember Cover is a tech company that produces and maintains its own tracking tech which is not made available outside the company. Others are able to shop around and buy whatever's for sale currently that's state of the art. Holo's don't have that and have to wait for some nameless in-house developer to get their ass in gear.

>>41327038
huh? why is Rio there??

>>41327038
Who are the holostars in the top left?

>>41326417
KEK

>>41324919
Soul

>>41328308
Nope. I don't even like Subaru's recent upgrade. I think it's crap compared with her more limited previous model as depicted. Still more entertaining to watch compared to "not even in vshojo" vshijogirl.

>>41328780
So you go around the catalog and seethe about random corpos as a total non-sequitur? I'm trying to understand.

>>41327747
>top tier models and rigging
>hands aren't even layered properly
Ya okay buddy.

>>41329522
>"MY SHIT IS MORE BROWN THAN YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Is this what discussion on this board has come to?

>>41329522
what are you talking about, not only the hands are layered properly they are even fully rigged

https://youtu.be/wRrRMb6i6oE?t=122

>>41328846
the only one itt seething is you m8 people are just discussing the topic
from you it's all just defensive seethe

I agree Cover's rigging are bad and, as said before in this thread, they take too long or don't even improve at all. However this thead is the same when people says "I don't like this game because the graphic looks old xDDD" which makes you look like a child that likes to eat garbage as long they look sparkling.

>>41329778
retard must think there's a "correct" way to place your hands (either behind or in front) and whichever way jew connect did is the "wrong" one in his schizo head.

>>41329832
Ok. Avatars don't matter.
Why don't you go watch a fleshtuber then?

>>41329983
Because I like vtubers, retard. What you said doesn't even make sense.

>>41330552
ok so you are saying cover's models could be fucking cubes and you wouldn't care? kinda based but I doubt the average person will feel the same

>>41325108
The replies never fail to remind me of how many braindead consoomer NPCs there are out there.

Don't say COVER like all cover models are as badly rigged as Gura.
Gura is pretty much just an outlier.
Kinda proof Cover is an incompetent trash company that lucked out by being the first on the business to tap into the cute girls doing funny things market of a new industry.
Their quality standards are low and inconsistent.
She's one of their top talents and they are ok with her looking like this.
Honestly they might just not give a fuck about the non JP branches.

>>41331224
>Honestly they might just not give a fuck about the non JP branches.
>Most of HoloEN was in Japan and nobody got proper 3D debuts
>No idol outfits for any of them for holofes
>No EN has those copy and paste santa outfits or other seasonal stuff
>Supposedly no ID2 3D for Holofes
You might be onto to something.

>>41324919
japanrese tech, prease understando

>>41324919
Cover are fucking geniouses in giving their fans very little but on a shiny package, so whenever they give them a little more the fans go crazy and thing they are being pampered.

>>41327038
Why Rio, he’s one of my favorite cover designs

>>41326042
Shuba has this weird body to head thing. I think it is how straight it is, but it constantly throws me off. It looks bad.

>>41331224
>She's one of their top talents and they are ok with her looking like this.
>Honestly they might just not give a fuck about the non JP branches.
This. Cover doesn't care about their foreign side branches. They can't even hide how much they prefer the JP branch and holoX has received six 3D outfits in only 13 months. Yagoo has little personal interest in hololive but he couldn't give less of a shit about holoEN. When the CEO doesn't care that is a simple explanation for why management doesn't care and is letting the EN branch fall apart.

>>41326042
Too bad Snuffy keeps getting worse and worse models.

>>41326042

>>41327388
Definitely false since most people sub to titty orca because she's a titty orca. That's what happens though, listen to trannies and suffer the consequences. Titty orca knows what her fans want and gives it to them.

>>41327038
Gura Kronii Ina Irys
add in Watson and Mori when you see them in 3d stuff. EN just shit models compared to JP.

>>41324919
Why is your mom so horrendously bad? Like, seriously, makes me want to be all up in dem cheeks.

>>41326042
Yea, nobody care about a soulless trash panda.

>>41332214
> ID1 goes to Japan and gets 3D, although they kinda suck.

>>41325749
Yes. Why don't they just fix that shit?

>>41330645
Considering Hololive's popularity, I'd say the average vtuber fan does feel the same.

>>41334485
All I can figure is that they wanna do it with Gura, but I dont know.
Its been 2 years, it makes no sense.

>>41334688
>calls others npcs and consoomers
>only follows vtuners with the highest noombers

>>41324919

>>41335211
Do you even read english, motherfucker?

>>41324919
There's no incentive to improve, drones gonna watch it anyway

>>41324968
Not applicable in this case, left is not endearingly bad, just bad

>>41331224
>Cover is an incompetent trash company that lucked out
This x10000000000000000000000000000, it's been painfully obvious they're figuring out stuff as they go and generally doing a pretty poor job at it.

>>41324919
you need to compare her with her sisters Kana, Luto and his mom to be fair tho.

Do they need the biggest quality models?? No, so ofc the are not gonna pay more for it

>>41329585
It's not about who's is worse idiot, im just calling out bad setups, don't care where they are from
>>41329778
Yukos hands and arms slide behind her clothing but in front of her legs when down, the literall 1 out of 3 configurations that's wrong.

>>41324919
the rigger definitely did do a horrible job. the design by nacho is good though.
I can't believe cover dropped the ball so hard with one of their biggest vtuber and they didn't even fix all the issues after the fact.

>>41327568
It’s not the artists or riggers, it’s the technology Cover uses. Sora was originally just a voice actress they hired to do stuff in L2D and then 3D in order to show off their proprietary software, which was cutting edge at the time.
The cost isn’t in paying more for better artists or anything. The best artists and riggers all want to do jobs for Cover, so that’s not the issue. The problem is that to upgrade it all, they’d have to change everything, maybe ditch a whole division of the company (since this shitty motion capture tech is what they started out doing as a company). Then they’d have to update everybody’s rigging, and we already know how long it takes to just fix an obviously scuffed model like IRyS’s old avatar.

>>41328065
If it took them over a year to fix something as obviously broken as IRyS’s old design, then something like suboptimal rigging, which is much more minor in comparison, is something they’re perfectly content to leave as is.
So yes, that anon is (probably) right. They’re not remaking the models lol

>>41327038
Every Vtuber has this problem because anime proportions are just shit, the squish the skull so it exposes more neck, also for rigging they need a good deal of it exposed when heads are turned. Combine the two and everyone is a giraffe

>>41336259
At this point they may as well switch to a contracting model and just hire one of the many modelmakers on a per job basis.

>>41332438
Yeah…until they fail to capitalize on the discount side branches and slowly get mogged by local competitors. Admittedly, ID is doing better than EN, but even there, they have competitors who will gradually eat away market share unless Cover gets off their ass and does something about the market share advantage they have.

>>41336503
I think the main issue is they're not inclined to let the side branches do their own events and such.

>took them until recently to pin pngs on their models
>vtube studio has been able to do that for years
>now vs can pin live2d objects on models with physics like drinks and cat ears
Mogged by a cheapo program. Embarrassing

>>41336259
Their 3D lives are still amazing tech wise.

>>41329800
>the thread doesn't compare streams' content
>schizo compares the streams' content
looks like someone got hurt, hm?!

>>41336818
frankly vts is a freak of nature in the land of software development and when the guy dies of a energy drink-induced heart attack nobody will be able to replace him

>>41324919
Cover hasn't changed much at all since 2018
The 2020 boom that fell into their lap could have never happened and they'd still just be kind of hanging out doing whatever

>>41327747
>top tier
I mean, they're better than Holo and Niji models, but they're nowhere near the likes of actually big indies and VShojo models.

>>41326971
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxbte1WdxpI Literal 2view on the cusp of breaking into 3view territory.

>>41329832
Not a good comparison. An old game has hardware and time limitations. All of these models are coming out at the exact same time. So it's more like looking at what Pokemon's doing graphically and saying that it's acceptable.

>>41336818
Fucking Veibae of all people helped with the creation of Vbridger to make vtubestudio's tracking even better. Cover and Anycolor both would beneffit from just tossing out whatever they have and buying a business license for VTS and using that going forward.

>>41339952
prideful japanese corpo please understand they'd rather die than use tech made by others

keep your shitstained fag hands off my Ren, shitpost with literally any EN vtuber since they've all got better rigging

>>41340020
From Cover’s pov it’s like this: you can either use the free technology and have vtuber models that are just as good as indies’, or you can keep working on your in-house tech in the hopes that it becomes better, and you can sell it to people (not necessarily vtubers, since I’m sure they originally intended this for many other uses). To give up on that would be to abandon a potential future revenue stream.
Obviously, the rest of us know how retarded that aspiration is and how Cover’s proprietary software is looking worse and worse. But I imagine they’re not trying to sell this technology to people who watch vtubers. More importantly, as long as it’s not so bad as to overshadow the girls themselves, Cover really doesn’t give a shit. They know their audience won’t leave Hololive for indies just because of the avatar (within a certain limit).
…I’m so glad I don’t watch Hololive anymore.

>>41324919
The biggest rrat is that rhombus is actually a nepotism hire and a relative of a Cover employee, which is why they still keep him around
The shit that rhombus did with Anya was character assassination/sabotage and wouldn't fly in ANY company

>>41335767
That goes for everyone who works in non holo companies.
Vox cant uncross his arms and Fulgur has some of the worst rigging Ive ever seen, but RPRs rigging is so good it looks like 3D, he can even look left and right properly.
I get Niji, rigging is done in house but Holo hires riggers, maybe they just dont pay well.

>>41340340
JP, fax machines.

>>41329832
Found the Nintentoddler buying indie level trash 3D at AAA price tag.
More proof that Holoshit is the McDonalds of vtubing

>>41340780
Nepotism hires would explain how Cover can have 379 employees but still have outdated models and bad rigging. There haven't been any updates on the Live2D 3.0 models since June.

>>41324919
>caring more about the rig than the person behind the rig
Whew

>>41342283
No one said it had to be a binary choice. Plenty of big vtubers have amazing rigs.

>>41342338
And they're terminal 2views because of how shit their personality is

>>41342396
VShojo aren't 2views

>>41342396
Stop coping holofag.
You can say your company has shit rigging and still enjoy the girls.

>>41342425
>vshojo
>personality
Good one

I'm pretty sure I've seen Silvervale fan herself and Froot eat a lollipop once. That is honestly amazing to animate in live2d

>>41343222
Yes

>>41324919
And? does having an amazing model makes you stay on a chuuba for long?
People stay for the personality, the models are just a +.

Literally you niggers don't have anything more to say and just making so much shit up LMAO

>>41343222
Silvers models are so good it looks almost 3D.

>>41324919
>Wdym horrible, anon? It's a masterpiece

>>41344439
make*

>>41333993
>>41334142

>>41344360
I knew I wasn't imagining that

>>41339567
Japanese companies please understand, funnily enough there's people defending both Pokemon graphics and Cover shitty model/rigging and thanks to these exact same people these companies won't change anything

>>41346161
At least Pokemon has the excuse of most of their revenue coming from merchandise instead of games. Where is Cover's excuse?

>>41344360
When and why would you use animations like this in a stream?

>>41346366
That's a garbage excuse.
They both have the same reason, why bother putting any effort if doing a half asssed job gets good results.

man why models shit but streamer good

>>41346366
most of covers revenue comes from merchandise and not the streams

>>41346584
That's pretty much the gist of it. Indies or small corpo chuubas who can't rely on an established brand name and the Power of the Box™ need to put more effort on the quality of their models to either attract viewers and keep the interest high with more frequent reworks or alt outfits.
If they could get away with shittier models they certainly wouldn't pay premium to one up each other every couple of months.

>>41346671
the same reason why model's good but streamer shit

>>41344360
Same rigger as Gura btw

>>41328468
Not only his tracking tech sucks, they literally have same riggers doing the job at some points and the difference is laughable
https://youtu.be/AFBGROUD9ag
https://youtu.be/RDeRNF5BUqQ

>>41348587
No? Indies are investing in their own brands, in themselves. In the way a flesh streamer would spend a big chunk of money on a super high end camera to improve the quality of their streams, an indie will spend a lot of money on a good model because it benefits them and their brand directly. Corpos don't have this luxury since at the end of the day the company owns them and they don't keep anything they put into building their brand if they ever want to leave so they're less likely to. They do it because they want to, not because they have to.

>>41349695
Even better is that Nazuna was made on a very rushed schedule. Considering she was terminated from Hololive in February and debuted for VShojo in July that's just under 5 months they had to turn around a completely new model from scratch and it still blows away anything she had under Cover in terms of rigging.

>>41324919
>Cover cashgrab rigging
>Soulless

CURSE YOU RHOMBUS RIGGER!!!!!!!!

>>41327373
that has always been 2view cope

>>41351656
the design, yes
the rigging, no

>>41333928
and then there is homos whoget even more special treatment
wit th egirls i understand cause they made the company wealthy but the homos are fucking leeches.

>>41331224
Of course they don't care about ENsharts and the dying EN market where getting more than 10k ccv without overlaps is hailed as getting impressive numbers

>>41352301
They debuted getting 20k.
They only reached a 6k average after long periods of no streaming, lack of a 3D debut or almost any special 3D, almost total lack of collabs, total lack of Cover produced content like special event collabs, lackluster job getting permissions, overly controlling management not letting them do fun stream ideas, lack of new gens and male collabs.
HoloEN was neglected by Cover, not allowed to do fun stuff and shoot itself with the male collabs.
Their lackluster numbers are not the result of the inherently weaker EN market, they are the result of Cover's own failure.
>Suck at managing business
>Put little effort into it
>It under performs
>See that as a reason to put even less effort
>It does even worse
repeat over and over
they might as well close the branch entirely if they're destined to end giving the barest minimum fucks

>>41324919
The talent aren't allowed to buy their own models. They have to go with w.e. Cover gives them.

>>41324919
Cover is literally nerfing themselves with shit rigging. Western rigging is 5 years ahead and they still hire these clowns who don't know what the hell they're doing.

>>41338318
Pochi rigging is unironically better than all rigs I ever seen including Vshojo.

>>41352526
Wait, you're telling me we could've had:
>consistent streams
>3d debuts
>3d events
>more collabs
>Cover-produced special events
>more game permissions than just minecraft
>the girls actually doing projects they feel passionate about
Man, fuck this. EN was essentially a completely waste for no good fucking reason.

Honestly, it’s because they don’t want to have to pay for a model upgrade for all their talents so they have to kneecap the newer talents models to be in line with the older talents models. Imagine the outrage if someone got a fancy new model that is clearly better than everyone else’s.

>>41336259
i thought she was always 3d

>>41354264
She was. They introduced 2D later. Their first 3 hires (Sora, Roboco, and Miko, although Miko debuted later) were all 3D only, and still are.

>>41327247
When you can't rely on people with actual talent who are fun to watch, the next best thing is hoping you come up with a gimmick that will draw in the same kind of idiots who think graphics are more important than gameplay.

Cover is doing what every big company is doing.
Invest as little as possible for the maximum profit. They know people will watch the girls anyways because their brand is huge already. Why invest in expensive latest tech models>

>>41334149
Did you just throw out random names?

>>41334578
because the benefit of doing so does not outweigh the number of people that will be pissed off for changing the classic thing they like

Japanese corporate vtubers seem to be behind in terms of quality. This is gonna stay like this forever, things don't just "change" in Japan due to their autistic rules of just saying "oh well, that's how it is lol" and letting shit burn around them instead of doing literally anything about it.

>>41351227
5 months is a long time for a full time job.

>>41324919
japanese preferential treatment

>>41338318
>VShojo models
VShojo models are all dogshit.
Veibae's and Silvervale's new one are alright though.

>>41329983
That's like recommending TTRPGs someone who doesn't care about good graphics. Just because they're not picky doesn't mean they want to switch the genre.

>>41324919
It's Cover using outdated soft and hardware.
Shondo went over this and how she was invited to join thanks to her connection to Mother Nature.
Aside from wanting to remain loyal to her Twitch viewers, she also turned down Cover after seeing first hand how garbage their tech is and she stated its years behind from even what plenty of indies have.

>>41325281
>Classic Japanese stagnation.
Pretty much this.

Same reason they can't just stream any game. A lot of corporate bs involved that's mainly there to protect themselves.

Being a successful business, there's undoubtedly a lot of vultures hovering and waiting over for them to make mistakes.

>>41326042
Holofags seething kek

>>41324919
>Japanese corpos
Check the latest pokemon for example...

>>41356192
Also, there's the possibility that Cover's JP management would rather neck themselves than let the Gaijin-managed Holo EN Branch embarrass the home office by outperforming them

>>41353609
>consistent streams
The girl's fault
>3d debuts
>3d events
They don't live in Tokyo
>more collabs
Girl's fault
>Cover-produced special events
They don't live in Tokyo
>more game permissions than just minecraft
They have enough permissions, they just don't like games
>the girls actually doing projects they feel passionate about
Bullshit
>Man, fuck this. EN was essentially a completely waste for no good fucking reason.
It was doomed the moment they didn't look for 5 girls living in Tokyo

>>41358212
>consistent streams
>The girl's fault
management doesn't push them to stream, and also by mismanaging them (treating them badly as gura as admited) they make them want to stream less
>3d debuts
>3d events
>They don't live in Tokyo
they've been in japan and had chances, they can be taken there, and Ame rigged a 3D setup herself, there are solutions, management is just not interested in them
>more collabs
jp management regularly organizes collabs for girls there, they could also push the girls to do them more, leaving it up to them clearly wasn't working
>Cover-produced special events
same as above
>more game permissions than just minecraft
having 100 permissions means shit if the 1 game they wanted is not in them
>the girls actually doing projects they feel passionate about
gura produced her music video and management didn't let her release it for almost a year, management didn't fund fun shit either or promote them to do it

jp management doesn't just sit there doing literally nothing, they organize stuff, they set up stuff
guess you can say there's the ayame situation and they let it slide for some reason but on EN they let everone go ayame

>>41349622
no shot that's umiushi's work

>>41326417
newfag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY4kFSuMvKM

>>41327038
>>41336429
Could have been worse

>>41360324
> collabs/special events
rent a vacation house for a week or two and make content. provide resources and structure so they don't waste it.
> game permissions
tempus proved permissions weren't the issue. they got them easily. the girls are just fucking lazy and pick from the list of shit and fotm. some of them don't even like games.
> EN a waste, living in Tokyo
They could at least have found girls with JP language skills. Other companies have proven this is not a problem.

>>41344360
>flesh fang
absolutely disgusting

>pays hundreds for a great model
>graduates in months
It's always the same shit with indies, not sure why anyone cares about the models if most of them will either graduate or transition to a corpo with "shit models" anyways.

>>41367031
Girls pay for a great model for fun. Corpo can't get good models...

All Gura's models are low quality compared to even other members in Hololive. It's like her model is in 480 or 720p while others get a 1080p looking model. That's the best I can explain it. Look at Irys's kimono outfit, the actual art in the model looks a lot better. Like it's in higher quality

>>41367199
>for fun
Yeah, definitely not because they need them to stay competitive.

>>41329983
what you said is more akin to saying
"Ok. Graphics don't matter. Why don't you go play some sports then?" than an actual argument on topic.

>>41367593
They are only a vtuber because it is trendy and fun to play with. That is why they graduate easily.

>>41352555
The Faustian bargain is that hololive members get the vast marketing power of a corpo but Cover owns everything related to their character. The issue is that even the recent Live2D 3.0 update was outdated technology and their plans to update other models seems to have been scrapped. There hasn't been any news about it for over 8 months.

>>41327865
probably told her to stop while they worked on it then quietly shelved the whole thing. I liked watching her and sora play around with them too

>>41355552
yeah their whole society is based on trends and chasing 15minutes of fame

>>41327865
Probably looks weird when they're on the keyboard/controller 24/7.

>>41356145
Can I get a link to that stream? I believe you, I just want to watch Shondo shitting on Cover.

>>41351914
Yes, but to be fair, the male leeching is literally company policy. That’s why it’s ok when they do it.

>>41324919
true, 99% of all the popular indies on twitch and vshojo have all got infinitely superior models that it puts most corpos to shame

cunny cunny cunny NIGGER

>>41375376
Most intelligent hololive fan

>>41324968
fpbp

>>41325058
If you own a big company you won't want to risk paying for 5 quality rigs and then have 4 of those talents never streaming or graduating, wasting that investment.

If you are an indie you are only investing in one rig and since it was expensive you will make sure yo won't waste it.

>>41375627
So indies now have bigger budgets than Cover. Fucking retard.

This entire thread reads like sour grapes from defensive holofags who like to pretend they don't care. I raugh

>another gura anti thread

I'm too lazy. Can someone post some Niji L2Ds? That's what I call bad.

>>41325108
Why is this person still getting hired? Does anyone have any idea?

>>41378230
Corporate entropy, you don't stop doing business with someone without good reason, and I assume the people in charge of hiring riggers are so fucking clueless that they didn't think it was bad enough to stop giving the guy work.

>>41376874
What? My oshi has one hand stuck to headphones and can't move it.

>>41376874
Nijis are definitely worse than Holos in general. They're like a 2/10 in rigging while Holos are a solid 4.

>>41375627
>risk paying for 5 quality rigs
They don't even have to be high quality, most of their rigs are below mediocre. There's literal who indies who have paid significantly less than Cover does who still have better rigs.

You can even tell they made Brian Tsuii "tone down" his quality to not mog the other lazy japanese riggers

>>41324919

Because they're using closed-source, proprietary software, and it's gotten out of date.

The sooner cover realize 95% of their audience is coomers who just want to beat off the more profit they will get. Give Gura the Cunny model she needs, give kronii atleast semi accurate proportions, etc. the fact that myth hasn’t gotten a 2.0 on their base models is hilariously bad.

>>41365015
>tempus proved permissions weren't the issue. they got them easily.
>easily
regis said that getting the collab ban with nijisanji lifted was very difficult and a big struggle, kiara tried for a long time and just gave up
gura had to fight for almost a year to get her music video aproved
dealing with management is just a tiresome uphill battle
tempus deals with that shit because they have to, they are new and in a company that doesn't give male talents free success
the girls clearly gave up already because they're successful and don't need to bother dealing with that shit but that's the whole point, dealing with management shouldn't be a painful and tedious struggle
you think Gura wants to make another music video again? why bother if it's gonna be another long pain in the ass, it also demotivates the other girls from trying something similar
when Hololive English Myth debuted they actually gave a fuck, they pushed themselves, their lack of enthusiasm now is in part the result of management
maybe not 100% but things would be much different now if management had not slowly crushed their drive by conditioning to give up on shit, to not bother trying, to not waste their time

>>41385032
It makes me mad that management fucked them so hard. It's not like managing 10 streamers is rocket science, even for a company who's never done it, yet here we fucking are.

>>41341449
Who hurt you?

>>41327337
post it

>>41385032
Oh but they did get approvals. The girls are weak and let all this shit happen. There isn't some big rebellion behind the scenes--they got bored and stopped streaming. I'd be happier if gura didn't spend her time making pedobait videos. Yeah, management is to be blamed for part of it, but the girls also slacked off. Maybe they'd enjoy their jobs more if they weren't playing geoguesser and pokemon.

>>41386154
plenty of indies and small corpos who love what they do also do geo guesser and pokemon and have a lot of fun
also I disagree the girls are "weak"
myth did a lot of amazing stuff in their first years

where are their 3D debuts ? where are the management organized events? what did cover do for holydays? nothing
you keep trying to reverse this so it's the girl's fault but all evidence points to management dropping the ball not them

>>41325486
this is actually a good reason
if holo bronies accept shitty models lets give them even shittier and cheaper models

>>41386670
>be Myth
>earn Cover over one million dollars in akasupas yearly, probably even more in merch
>never get a single cent of support from Cover

>>41324919
If Cover could get 20k CCV with a stickman with anime boobs for an avatar, they won't bother giving Hololive any better. Corpos are here to make money. Everything their talents do is decided by them, and that includes the 3D models. You sacrifice your desire to get a better model, but you make 1000x more money over being an indie dramafagging vtweeter. People would kill to be as hideous as Gura if they can be Gura. Fuck, people would kill to be Aia from NijiEN. The superchats, the merch sales, the Youtube ad revenue. I've seen youtube niggers of no consequence trying to shill their own merch in every one of their videos. Do you know how hard it is to do that when nobody's watching you? When no corpo is marketing these merchs for you? It's insane.

>>41392657
>Everything their talents do is decided by them, and that includes the 3D models
kek what is this schizo headcanon? Cover barely decides anything. Holo EN was using 3D models they commissioned on their own long before they got official ones.

>>41392657
>working with the shoddiest equipment to save money
Cover isn't a bulk manufacturing company, they can make millions from a single talent and good models cost a couple thousands. Getting a decent avvy + rig is literal peanuts on the dollar.
In fact, Cover is a MERCH company, so their decision is even more baffling.. How many dakimakuras of tempus are they gonna sell when their wonderboys looks like this >>41327038 ?

>>41392657
Pekora gets them 30k and they give her a shit load of outfits all the time, live shows, 3D events and even let her have an ugly bastard cum all over Noel's face.
They don't need to do all that according to you they should just count their pennies and let the money flow without lifting a finger.

>>41393055
My bad. I meant to say their models, but I was thinking about the difference between flesh streamer and chuuba so somehow 3D entered my head. The OK given for them to proceed with their 3D models came from Cover, though and their makeshift 3D models are shittier than their official ones.
My point was that, as one of the talents, even if you want to proceed with an updated live2D model and rigging to replace your current one permanently; with money out from your own pocket, Cover will probably stop you as it ruins their grand scheme with shit like "oh, it will make others in your gen look bad" etc. Else everyone in Myth would have sky-high with how advanced their default models would be. Talents also don't get to choose the artist to draw their model, hence Gura in OP's pic. Talents can also choose bad designs on their own, like Pikamee's isekai design which she chose on her own.

>>41393290
Capitalism, baby! The anime industry watered down their production quality, making people accept lower-detail drawings and designs; and terribly animation. So when vtubers are presented to weebs, they just gobble it all up what with the shit rigging and designs etc. Holopro is an industry titan. Akihabara is lined with their posters and these japs eat it all up. I once saw a Moona poster in a Mikodanye video. Who the fuck in Japan watches Moona since she doesn't constantly speak nihongo? Moona is even on the low side of CCV. Why is there a Moona ad in Japan? But they sure as hell will buy her merch and fap onto it.

>>41393684
Pekora is forever stuck with her face and I don't she even has the best in vtuber model technology. 3D Lives are paid by the talents. I do admit that they spoil their JP branch more and probably they don't need to do all of that. It's probably Cover's market strategy. Too bad for the gaijin branches, though. Stay gaijin, stay losing.

>>41395286
>Stay gaijin, stay losing
Literally this
As I've been saying for the longest time, the JP management would rather commit seppuku than let the EN branch outshine the home office in any way. They give the money, sure, but no way in hell will they ever be allowed to become more popular than JP, much less given JP-level support

Gura needs to be redone from the ground up. Her character concept is fantastic, but the actual model is dogshit even without the shitty rigging. Straight up embarrassing garbage.

>>41338850
i hate vtubers who move like their entire body is made out of jelly. it's too distracting and loads of western indies do it these days. the worst ones are the ones who blink and their eyeball starts morphing wildly as if they're ballistic gel that just got shot in a slowmo video

>>41396148
SEGA had that philosophy once. Look where it got them.

>>41325281
Not too big on Shylily, but I have to admit her model absolutely shits on most of Covers models.

>>41395286
Pekora's L2D used to be praised as one of the best in the business back in 2020.

>>41393684
>Pekora gets them 30k and they give her a shit load of outfits all the time
To be fair that only started to happen in the last year and a half or so. She literally just had her default outfit plus the yukata for two years until she commissioned that prison outfit for that one bit in 2021, and by that point she's been pretty much Cover's top talent for a year at least. Not sure if it was just her not feeling the need of new outfits or it was Cover trying to prioritize the less successful members since she was already doing great.

>>41398383
Was it? It always looked kinda derpy to me. For me it was her that made it work.
Then Gokisei L2Ds definitely blew anything that came before out of the water.

>>41399854
2020 was before the western indie boom that led rigging to powercreep to what it is today.
All of Hololive's L2D get updated every now and then. At one point Pekora's was notable for having good range and looking quite smooth.

>>41398383
Anon, you're finally awake. It's 2023. Pekora gets beaten by a pedo indie faggot (Taiga) who spends 9k USD on his model, in terms of model quality. It's time to let go. Cover has dropped the ball on model quality and we know this.

>>41400871
Sure but Cover can't just give Pekora a top of the line model and leave everyone else behind. So the real question here is: does it make sense for them to spend what will likely amount to several hundreds of thousands of dollaroos to upgrade all their talents' models and their alts? Would they even see any return from it?

>>41402602
they can start by not debuting any more horrible models, something they still frequently do to this day

>>41327038
Rio, Miyabi, NuIRyS are fucking great and I don't know why you put them on there.

>>41402602
They regularly update everyone but it's an expensive and complicated thing.
But they do sort of try to keep everyone on a similar level and whenever they have some tech quality leap with a new gen they go back and try to bring all the girls that are behind to a better level.

>>41402602
They're swimming in so much money that it would hardly impact them. They could let the chuubas front the cost like the 3D Lives. They could start the rollout little by little so they could offset the financial hit. Does it make sense for them to spend so much on Pekora's stuff even though she already pulls 30k like this anon >>41393684 said? If that makes sense, then rolling out updated Live2D makes sense. If that doesn't, then this doesn't. Fact remains they dropped the ball and are getting mogged in the model department. Not to mentioning hiring artists with shit artstyles.

>>41403775
>hiring artists with shit artstyles.
I will NEVER forgive them for what they did to Irys
Yeah they fixed it but after a fucking year of having look like that paint of jesus that an old lady fucked up.

>>41404253
She still looks janky from a bunch of angles.
Redjuice's style is whack, and a cross between his whack style and regular anime is whack too.

>>41404374
It's still a massive upgrade.
She went from complete trainwreck to just kinda stinky.

>>41404253
they even got a half decent rigger for her for once. I'm surprised they even bothered to get non jp connected riggers for once. japanese love their nepotism

>>41375627
You're literally retarded lmao, and I pray that you never have any decision making position in any company.

>>41324919
I'm pretty sure the moral of this image is effort doesn't pay.

>>41404529
>had to harass management incessantly to get it
>took a whole year to happen
>delayed her getting any other outfits or 3d for the same amount of time
>new model is still somewhat fucked up
>comes with a cowtit design she never asked for and is obviously at least mildly uncomfortable with
>a year later, Cover happily debuts new talents with fucked up models they openly resent (Magni), beginning the cycle anew
I'm sorry, but Cover is fucking retarded.

>>41405278
interestingly it only happens to the EN branch

>>41405435
You wouldn't know if it happened to the JPs because you don't watch them, rofl.

>>41405533
Stupid comments like this bring our whole board's quality down. Please reconsider your life choices and better yourself.

>>41405634
So you admit you don't watch JP, got it.

>>41405763
It's a stupid comment. Everyone who follows vtubers watches the debut of every new hololive member where they show the models.
I don't normally watch Magni either but I know he looks like the sloth from ice age because I watched the debut and saw how retarded it looks there.

>>41406187
I knew you didn't watch JPs but I never thought you would outright admit it, hahahaha!

>>41406460
I watch haachama when she has english speaking streams if that makes you feel any better.

>>41406615
It does, thanks anon.

>>41403775
>They're swimming in so much money that it would hardly impact them
I think you're underestimating how important of an investment that would be for them, especially considering they would likely see negative returns from it. They would basically do it just for the bragging right to say they have the best models in the industry for a couple of months, since I doubt fans would give that much of a shit whether their oshii's tits have the best bouncing physics or are able to perform some pointless baked-in animation.
Corpo's and indie's business models are fundamentally different because while the latter just needs to worry about themselves, the former must attain some form of consistency throughout all their roster, which is something that just keeps getting harder the more members they own.

>>41407481
Surely you underestimate the impact a model has on somebody's initial perception of a chuuba, no?

>>41407481
Make them all the same except hair and eyes. Kidding. With peko it could have been a 2m sub gift or some excuse.

>>41407762
For indies and small corps, sure. For big corps the strength of the brand and the name of their co-members carries much more weight than the quality of their rigging.

>>41408082
>Make them all the same except hair and eyes
I work in game development and can confidently say, this is unironically the solution modern AAA studios are using (base templates).
They're still able to generate a wide variety of characters, the fact big vtuber corpos haven't caught on and developed their own templates for anime girls is honestly a bit surprising.

>>41407481
Don't ignore the rest of my post. Chuubas can front the cost and the rollout can be gradual. Having more expressions on par with Selen's current Live2D and Nazuna's out-of-the-gate model would improve fan experience. Surely this is better than holding a hypnotist event to hug Marine and do stuff to Noel, which an anon here said costed Cover some money? You talk about consistency but the talents all have different number of outfits. The push for their popularity was also inconsistent, like how Cover pushed HoloX wayyyyyy harder than other gens.

>>41378479
Credit where it's due, they haven't hired him again ever since the fuckup that was Anya's outfit. Hell, the first result when you google his name is a reddit post highlighting why you SHOULDN'T hire him, so I'd be surprised if he gets hired at all.

>>41409068
>fuck up once shame on you
>fuck up twice shame on you
>fuck up thrice shame on you
>fuck up four times, it's over
Glad to see Cover put their foot down, they are shrewd operators.

>>41409068
The guy that made Anya's 1.0?
Dude did an amazing job, just did it for the wrong character.
If Hololive ever wants a shorstack or an oppai loli that's the guy they need.

>>41409318

>>41355369
>give her updated rigging
>add 'lazy_eye' as a toggleable setting
Wow, that was so hard.

>>41360324
>having 100 permissions means shit if the 1 game they wanted is not in them
It also doesn't help when that one game is only in the JP permissions list, because Cover can't be bothered getting EN perms.

>>41408856
>Chuubas can front the cost
You're assuming enough members are unhappy enough with their model to even bother "fronting the cost" for an upgrade. Again, even if the cost was all up to the talents, that doesn't mean they would see any return from it, which ultimately changes nothing about the point I was making.
Not even sure why you keep comparing it to a personal project like Pekora's weird hypnotism thing. Wasn't that her 2 millions subs wish?

>>41411089
>Why would a talent pay out of pocket to get a new model?
I know the average poster on 4chan is retarded, but please think a little before you post.

>>41396148
>As I've been saying for the longest time, the JP management would rather commit seppuku than let the EN branch outshine the home office in any way.
Still can't tell if management is trying to sabotage the EN branch but they don't seem to have any interest in helping them grow.

>>41395286
You're equating low quality with cost-cutting.
I don't think Cover's models are shit because of cost-cutting. I think they are shit because they literally cannot tell quality.

>>41411785
They had some spare male models to offload onto EN. Those had to be leftovers...

>>41412118
I think that this conversation says a bit. They are reaching a point where they need to upgrade or people less intelligent than /vt/ will notice. It's false economy to keep them shackled to shit models when the other vtubers have shiny ones that can do tricks. There has to be a balance where the costs are lower than the payoff.
This is likely going to not be received well, but ironmouse's concert was interesting to me. I don't watch her. Her 3d body looked like a real girl, which I liked a lot.

>>41411352
>le retarded posterino
Yes anon, I still believe that's a legitimate question, for the reasons I expressed here >>41408441
On top of the fact that they don't own their models, which is another disincentive.

>>41412528
we just have to wait for the old japanese men to change something, it may happen just before cover is no longer the top dog

The real answer is that no one in the scene advertises more than Hololive. They have to keep a simplistic and consistent quality to their models (in theory) to keep cost down in advertising/merchandise and also to not jump the shark when it comes to seeing vtubers irl. Discounting the lack of a global company, most of these indies will never see any advertisement outside their streams or other peoples streams because their models are eyesores outside of a virtual space

>>41414952
I have never ever in my entire life seen a Hololive ad.
I have however seen multiple ads for wactor, idol and even a couple indies.

>>41411785
It's not sabotage, more like a passive-aggressive game than anything. Don't give the EN branch enough resources as to outshine JP, but give enough so they don't balk at the lack of support either

>>41418668
*can't balk
saying "don't" implies they are getting enough help, while "can't" is more like "you can't say we're not helping you; look at all the stuff we gave you" while giving nothing but peanuts

>>41411089

>You're assuming enough members are unhappy enough with their model to even bother "fronting the cost" for an upgrade.
IRyS is already an example, and she had to wait a year to get rid of her goblin look. She didn't even get last year's New Year Costume while Council got theirs. So yes, I'm assuming. Also why does it need to be "enough"? If a member wants it, they'll order it. If they don't. They won't. With IRyS's new model and Kiara's butt upgrade, it's clear some members are unhappy with their original default. But wait, why does progress in technology should wait for the talents to be "unhappy"? Some of them might want an updated Live2D to show off and they don't mind paying the money for that. Sure beats Bae's MV.

I brought up Pekora's hypnotism project thing because that other anon was replying to me with that scenario implying that Cover did that because they're not an extremely capitalistic company like I was implying. So in the "not so capitalistic" spirit, Cover should update Live2D, therefore whether it gives return or not, it doesn't matter.

Cover made Suisei's maid model able to swing the axe, which, you can argue doesn't give them return on investment. Yet they still did it anyway. Now, let's give you real financial incentives. Update streams gets more CCV than normal streams, more superchats and more VOD views as well, meaning more YouTube revenue. I will also argue better models bring more people in the long run, and future talents would be more incentivized to join Hololive SO WE WOULD GET FUCKING EN3 ALREADY!

>>41412118
Cover's models stay shit because of lack of investment into them, though; and that's a form of cost-cutting. I agree with you that they cannot tell quality and this also affects the models we currently have.

>>41340340
They do sell their tech though, under license in fact: to the girls and boys who constitute the talents of Hololive Productions!
It'll be in the terms of their contracts that as part of Cover's "cut" is disguised as license feed for the tech.
I believe that's what the work iphone is for: it's rented, not given to them at least according to IRyS anyway.

>>41420371
>IRyS is already an example
Eh, IRyS is also an example of how a new model, for corpos like Holo at least, doesn't really make any difference in terms of viewership outside of the obvious reveal buff. She just wanted a rework because she didn't like the model to the point it bothered her, like Flare before her. I agree she shouldn't have had all those problems and setbacks she had for wanting to fix something that was objectively bad, but outside fringe cases like hers it's kind of a waste of money, and I'm not sure how many talents would be willing to dish out several grands for some minor upgrades, especially when they can just get an alt outfit instead, which is what I think Pekora did with her prison outfit (I mean pay it from her own pockets, or so I heard at the time).
Ultimately, I'm of the idea that the quality of a model is of little importance in the success of a vtuber. Looking back, even an indie (at the time) like Ironmouse had her breakout moment with her old SOVL la goblina model. Gura being a good sport about her rhombus face probably did her more good than a state-of-the-art rigging ever could. Pekora's goofy look perfectly complemented her cartoonish voice and demeanor to the point of becoming one of the main symbols of vtubing with her ogey face. Truth is, people kinda like ridiculous and bad looking things, because they're funny and make them laugh. At the end of the day a unique design that blends well with the chuuba's personality is the most important aspect of a model.

>>41405763
NTA, but I'll happily admit I don't watch JP. You are a massive loser if you do.

>>41425642
And so in the names of profit and investment, Cover would refuse to redesign or upgrade to better models? They would retain these goofy looking models alongside limited animations and expressions just because (You) think the fans like them more than "soulless" advanced models? They won't even add new expressions and movements? They will keep debuting fugly models? So be it. Cover refuses to move forward, and we won't get EN3 because chuubas feel better with a better looking model + freedom from corpo chains. And if we do get EN3, one of them is gonna be a female Magni and bitch on her RM account about her shit model and then gets cancelled /here/. Enjoy your PNGs. Gura's too dead to use a new model anyway.