/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

This idol drought is present outside of America too. Look at India. You have people worshipping poop deities. When's the last time an Indian conqueror or king inspired the hearts of Indian people, to have pride in their being? This is what happens when society has to create their own idols.

Modern idol nomenclature was introduced with Kpop and Jpop. These celebrities differed from Western celebrities, in that they were cultivated to represent purity and uncorruption. They do their best I'm sure. However, this is where the impurity of the flesh comes in.
Two aspects are needed for an idol. Beauty and persona. While Kpop idols are carefully picked over for their beauty, it so happens that not every 10/10 has the best persona. Perhaps they're boring, or maybe mean. Those that fulfill both criteria certainly exist, but it's still a imperfect process.

Anime as a medium differs from cartoons in that it targets more mature audiences than mere children. It often branches out to categories other than comedy and action. Including romance.
The development of the waifu as an idol went parallel with the Kpop idol trend. However, it's flaws run perpendicular with the Kpop idol's imperfections.
Waifus are pure and perfect in persona and beauty, however, they fail to fulfill a criteria of the idol we haven't discussed. Idols must be constant, otherwise they will fade.
The release of Katawa Shoujo had many a player vowing to take up running, after being inspired by the idol Emi. However, that motivation runs dry, because the idol is not constant. The lines of dialogue in the VN are always the same, the story runs the same, there are o new releases. While their are some who don't mind reading the same book over and over, the vast majority crave newness. So it is with idols. They must remain new.

(cont.)

I would like to briefly touch on vocaloids. Theoretically vocaloids serve as excellent idols. However, because they do not possess individual will, somebody can manipulate them to say contrary, awful things. They lack in the aforementioned tangibility aspect.

Now, we bring vtubing into the fold.
Strictly speaking, the vtubing technology doesn't always create idols. Many early vtubers were mere entertainers, creating funny skits. But with the advent of streaming and the industry direction put forth by Hololive, vtubers as idols have become the standard.
In fact, one could say vtubing is the perfect technology for the creation of idols. This is because vtubing fills all the criteria that the aformentioned imperfect idols fail in.

1. Vtubers are tangible.
They are real. You can chat and communcate with them
2. Vtubers have persona and beauty.
In fact, the technology is perfect for those who are strong in persona, but lack the natural beauty. They can even tailor their idol's image to suit their personality, creating a stronger presence than would be possible in flesh.
3. Vtubers remain new.
Constant streams ensure a constant wave of content.

Now how does this fit into you not being a loser?
I can't tell you the number of superchats I've seen, where people thank the vtuber for the laughs for inspiring them in a hobby, for helping them through a tough day.
Herein lies the pure purpose of on idol. To inspire. To motivate. The entertain. People want someone else to believe in.

(cont.)

From a societal perspective, competent idols are a net positive, because they promote good ethics, while also raising the productiveness and mood of the worker bees.

From a personal perspective, I don't think it's strange at all to get fired up yourself when you see somebody you can relate to doing their best.
Good vibes, cute things, fun times, many laughs... What sort of Satan would call such mutual enjoyment cringe?

From a sociological perspective, there are those who live their entire lives without being told their beautiful. Without having somebody tell them they love them.
I'm not sure I need to tell you that relationship dynamics are at their lowest point in at least a thousand years.
Fatherless homes at an all time high.
An increasing feel of placelessness and lack of community what with global homgenization forces.
The idea of owning a home is laughable to all.

But tuning into a Nina Kosaka's stream and having her ask how your day went will get you called a loser. Denigrated the same people who are on six different medications, half of them for depression and anxiety, who goes to both a therapist and a psychiatrist.

Idols coming back into focus on a world stage is a net positive for humanity, and for you.

(fin)

ahn~!

anon please blink twice if you're being kidnapped

>>32064394
>>32064447
>>32064797
I want to reroll better replies for my effort post. Meidos, please delete these and get me better ones.

>>32064085
>Just like the production of alcohol is inextricably linked to the onset of civilization, the creation of idols has always been a necessity for the functioning of a good society.
I stopped right there. I enjoy a good schizo rant but you're awful at it. Fuck off.

>>32064085
>>32064148
>>32064208
>>32064289

i might read this later, here's a picture of an anime girl

>>32065601
Name a counterpoint example. Not even Christianity opposes consumption of alcohol, they knew the people wouldn't tolerate it.

>>32064085

>>32064085
I read your post OP, and I liked it

>>32066700
Thanks man
Please don't say sike

>>32066896
lol, no I really did. I don't really watch a lot of vtubers now but there was a time when I was on the brink of darkness and finding a vtuber I really liked restored my humanity.

That sounds cringe but I can't think of a better way to phrase it now.

>>32064085
>>32064148
>>32064208
>>32064289
didnt read lol

>>32067361
>>32066637
Milliesisters... Your third grade reading level reps...
>>32067121
Oh good.
Nah, I get you, as I'm sure a lot of others do.
When there's nothing good in your life, but you still got that one safe space to go to, it can give you you motivation to push through.
You can't really find that safe space in books and fictive video games, because they have a beginning and an end. MMOs perhaps, but no modern ones really.
Its unique to vtubing, having a mindless, regular, positive hangout space.

>>32066637
Ok nevermind I take it back I actually read your post, I don't agree at all because donating to a vtuber makes you a loser no questions asked. but it's kind of true that content creators/"idols" of different forms can inspire people to be better or just make them happy, and that's a good thing and pretty normal outside of this medium too. So I guess I do kind of agree but also you're a schizo and a loser for typing all that up.

>>32067999
Nta butI also feel the same way about vtubing, I’m just exhausted at being told I’m wrong for caring about it

>>32068028
>donating to a vtuber makes you a loser no questions asked
True. The reason I didn't mention it in my post was because I have never donated to a vtuber. Not even a membership.
>you're a schizo and a loser for typing all that up
Knew I should have went with a Big Tits and Ass thread today. Ah well.

>>32068133
The same people clowning you now are the guys who shoved DnD nerds into lockers in the eighties, and bullied anime nerds in the nineties. In ten years they'll be pretending to be OGs who watched Kizuna Ai's debut.
Of course, that's not a very comforting thought, to know our hobby will be polluted by toxic normies in the future, but I suppose it only makes me more appreciative of this vtubing golden age we're living in right now.

>>32064085
>>32064148
>>32064208
>>32064289
Based idolchad, cringe intro though
Anyway, may the flame of the idol provide inspiration and warmth for those who seek its light.

>>32068511
I care about pic related and her laughing purple dragon friend on a deep, frankly not-all-that-healthy level, and have done so going on over a year now. I can acknowledge that parasocial relationships are on some level inevitable and are perhaps judged too harshly. That said you will not ever convince me that the kind of idolfag/unicorn that populates /vt/ is anything more than a schizo control freak whose interest in vtubers is almost entirely related to the power he feels he has over them; no matter how hard you try to rationalize it or sweeten the deal. Their (batshit) actions over the past year and a half have burnt that bridge to a crisp and poisoned the well harder than a truckload of chemical runoff. If you see an anon clowning on idolfags when you think he should be more understanding based on the evidence, it’s probably less because of a fundamental difference of opinion and more because idolfags doxxed his oshi and called her a whore.

>>32069120
Is it the alcohol bit? I didn't mean to endorse alcohol. Just wanted to make the comparison that some things have persisted with humanity no matter where and when they are in the globe.
>>32069627
>I can acknowledge that parasocial relationships are on some level inevitable and are perhaps judged too harshly. That said you will not ever convince me that the kind of idolfag/unicorn that populates /vt/ is anything more than a schizo control freak
IMO parasocial folks are the odd ones out. Idolfags at least understand the terms of the contract. Their temper tantrums are born out of a desire to (rightfully) gatekeep normies and keep these hoes in line.
Whereas parasocial viewers and chuubas seem to be trying circumvent the natural distance established by the idol-fan relationship.
It's why I like watching Selen, as she understands the appropriate distance to keep between her fans. Frankly, anything closer just weirds me out. Makes me feel like I'm getting pandered to. It's why I don't watch her karaoke or cooking streams

>>32064289
reminds me of this

>>32070544

>>32070544
>>32070610
Look all I’m getting from that is ‘sacred prostitution’ and I think all religions should have that.

>>32070351
Selen is unironically crazy

>>32064085
based and mucho

>a good OP on /vt/
Now THIS is a unicorn

>>32064085
>>32064148
>>32064208
>>32064289
Absolutely based essay. All religions are parasocial relationships and always have been and it's time we stopped shitting on them and started accepting that the parasocial relationship is as intrinsic to human civilization as any other kind of interpersonal relationship.

>>32064085
wtf OP is based?

>>32064085
This seems to make sense to me. I don't anything to add, but neat.

>>32073213
Selen's pretty normal. You gotta be, to stay that on top of things.
>>32071267
I mean, ancient civilizations were very prolific with sex cults. It wouldn't be a stretch to say fucking was just part of the priestess's job description.
>>32077518
>>32077183
>>32077978
>>32078281
I just said what we all were thinking.
>>32077576
Exactly.
We have motherly love, love between friends, love between rivals, love between couples. But love of idols have been sort of surpressed.
I don't care if your idol is religion, or vtubers, or Kpop, or an athlete. But having something to look up to is necessary for most people's sanity. You see, idols have the appropriate distance not only for their own enterprise, but also for the fans.
Wives, crushes, and mothers can only fo so much, and they're kept at a close distance. Meanwhile, idols are a symbol of perfection. A flash in the dark.
This is why I shake my head when I see people trying to groom or get closer to their idol. They don't understand the necessity of the distance. Even if everything were to go as planned, and you were fall in love and marry your idol, one day you would walk in on your idol taking a crap, and the illusion would shatter. She would no longer be an idol to you. She would be your very real life, who takes craps from time to time.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there.

Also, I use she a lot, but obviously this is reflected vice versa for females who like male idols


Though now that I mention athletes, I must digress. This is a different topic, but the

I love my Fish wife!

>>32078741
Post was getting long

Though now that I mention athletes, I must digress. This is a different topic, but it would be interesting to look at the difference between idols and heros.
Obviously the gender difference comes to mind. Most heroes are of the same sex as the fan, and most idols are of the opposite sex.
I'd also like to propose that most heroes occupy a similar interest to the fan. A kid who looks up to his dad who is a doctor is inevitably drawn to the same career passion. A high school athlete who follows Barry Bonds wants to be like him, to adopt his moves.
With this in mind, I think a hero adopts more of a rival postion than the idol. This is where the phrase 'kill your heroes' holds true. In my own experience, I had a hero in creative pursuit that I absolutel6 loved. They did things no other artist in that medium did, and they did it in an intellectual, but down-to-earth funny way. I don't know how to explain it, it was just better than everything else I had come across.
I started working on that creative pursuit because of them. And then they sold out, in a really pathetic and objectionable way. Oddly enough, this didn't stop me from pursuing my creative passion. In fact, I want to see it through because I wanted to be better than them.
I don't think an idol becoming corrupt would make me feel the same.
Whereas a treasured idol falling from grace might unhinge me a little bit. Not to drastic measures, but I might pick up smoking again.

>>32064085
I was gonna skip this thread cause it seemed like another shitposter faggot shitting on "idol culture" but reading the title in full got me interested, good job

>>32064085
This whole essay fails to acknowledge the inevitability of parasocial relationships. You have an extremely idealised view on idols and their viewers.

I'm sorry OP but your effort schizo post is just not very good. I gave it a chance but it failed to inspire me and now I'm more disappointed than amused.

>>32064085
>>32064148
>talks about idols
>posts pictures from NijiEN
???

>>32078741
I agree about the distance thing, I love the vtubers I watch and would want them to love me too, but I still want some degrees of separation from the actual person

Please, go do something with your life.

>>32079486
Yeah, things start getting a little awkward when anons here cry over grown women having relationships.

>>32079486
>This whole essay fails to acknowledge the inevitability of parasocial relationships.
Good point.
I am someone who is not affected by parasocial tendencies. I avoid ASMR, voice packs, and obvious GFE streams because they frankly feel fake to me.
All I can posit is that a tendency to fall into parasocial thinking is born from a lack of personal success in ones personal relationships. Not just intimate relationships, but normal relationships between family and friends.
I have friends that listen to me when I talk about virgin shit (like VNs) they probably don't care about (in the same vein, I listen to their boring stuff so it's not just a one way street).
I can talk politics with my dad
I can talk work stuff with my mom
I can talk sadsack shit with my best friend.

When I watch a vtuber, I have no intention of communicating with my idol anything but generic praise and callouts, because I have already expended that social energy and have no need for a dialogue.
I assume those that do strive for that connection are socially limited in all other personal aspects.

Essentially, folks (and chuubas) who get too parasocial are misatributing their role, and are idols that are not long for this earth. Maintenance of the distance is necessary for the health of both fan and idol.

Ultimately, I don't know, but that's just what I theorize.

>>32079317
>In fact, I want to see it through because I wanted to be better than them.
I think you've hit on the key difference there between the Hero and the Idol. Your Hero is someone you want to be like, and one day even surpass.
Your Idol, conversely, is someone you could never be like, and aren't trying to, you just want to one day be worthy of them. Even if they never know you exist, even if they aren't even real, the goal of wanting to FEEL worthy of them gives you positive motivation in your own endeavors.
In that regard it again circles back to religion. Nobody thinks they are going to BECOME Jesus (or other saint/deity of choice), you simply strive to life your life in a way that he would be proud of. Also, your oshi reading a message you sent in chat simulates pretty exactly the Christian concept of "Grace.'

To be clear here I am not advocating literally making your oshi your religion (unless you are a koronesuki or a takodachi, in which case I'm too late), just musing that the idol concept OP talks about sort of fills the same societal need that organized religion can, maybe?

>>32064289
Human is weak after all. They need idolized people to inspire them, since they abandoned god.
Vtuber become idol is a good thing, because they can spread much more than just japanese culture to their believers. Westerner of course don't understand this, they think it's just streamers with an avatar.

>>32080268
Maybe I'll go to college KEK
>>32080102
Think of the word 'idol' in broader terms, more disassociated from Korea and Japan
>>32079941
I guess I could never be this anons idol...

didn't read, but based

>>32080290
It's in the job description not to be in a relationship. Many rail against it, they end up losing their fans and support. This is idol culture in its natural form. You don't like it, go watch some American television.
>>32080723
>Also, your oshi reading a message you sent in chat simulates pretty exactly the Christian concept of "Grace.'
Oh boy, the normies in this thread arent gonna like that one.
But what you say on all other points is exactly what I mean, yes
>>32080745
Rather than not understand it, westerners are trying to corrupt it (as is their tendency). By the way, by the west, I mean zog, not European or American cultures.
The reason for such explicit and universal distaste of Vshojo is obviosu to any threadwatcher, though it may be a tad subconscious. Vtubing (in japanese form) is pure, and heavily influenced by a culture it itself developed. Western agencies like vshojo (and dare I say it, Coco) are trying to turn vtubing into camwhoring twitch thottery. It's the exact sort of seep that vtubing seeks to provide a refuge from.
The reason yoy see such schizophrenic backlash from any idol violating the established norms, is because people are trying to gatekeep their culture that they love. The only one that acknowledges and fulfills the establishment of idols

>>32064085
>>32064148
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>>32064289
>the creation of idols
Ancient idols are different from modern idols
>necessity for the functioning of a good society
What do you mean by "good"?
I'm guessing since you're talking ancient civilizations you probably mean societies that everyone works, functions socially in the community, and reproduces.
Modern idol fans only do the first, they just work jobs.
>competent idols are a net positive, because they promote good ethics, while also raising the productiveness and mood of the worker bees
They don't promote good ethics, they promote obedient wageslaves to spend money not on improving themselves, their community, or their country but on luxury goods. There's nothing wrong with buying luxury goods, but in terms of "ethics" it's more ethical to promote continuing your lineage and improving your country, it's hardly ethical to take advantage of mentally ill people.
>From a sociological perspective, there are those who live their entire lives without being told their beautiful
Except it's not real. Needing an idol to tell you they love you and interact with you is like putting a bandaid over a bullet wound, the bullet needs to be extracted, tendons/muscles inspected/fixed, wound cleaned etc. You can't just rely on them to fix your emotional needs because you'll constantly be in need of it like a drug addict/alcoholic.
At least when you're in a real relationship for some time, you get over the honeymoon phase and start needing space, which is a good thing because you won't constantly need the attention or validation because you know for a fact someone loves you.

All you're doing is promoting unhealthy behaviors, which if you understand is unhealthy isn't a big deal, but don't try to moralize it as an ethical good when it really isn't.

>>32081497
>There's nothing wrong with buying luxury goods, but in terms of "ethics" it's more ethical to promote continuing your lineage and improving your country
There have always been those who either won't or can't reproduce or have normal relationships with the opposite sex.
We used to call them Monks and put them to work copying out bibles and painting icons of saints. Now we call them otaku. The two fill the same societal niche of giving those people a way to contribute something rather than just exiling them or killing them.

>>32064085
>>32064148
>>32064208
You will never become an übermensch relying on such weak pillars anon.

>>32081497
>Ancient idols are different from modern idols
Proofs?
>societies that everyone works, functions socially in the community, and reproduces
Actually an interesting point. I would argue that functioning socially and reprodic8ng have been deincentivized. I mean, beyonf family, what nudging do you get from society to reproduce? The government certainly doesn't care. It allows gay marriage, and importation of foreigners to supplement stagnating birthrates.
>They don't promote good ethics, they promote obedient wageslaves to spend money not on improving themselves, their community, or their country but on luxury goods.
Every idol I've met insists that fans spend their paycheck on themselves before they donate.
>it's more ethical to promote continuing your lineage and improving your country
I agree, but what can you do when your country doesn't want you to improve it.
>Except it's not real. Needing an idol to tell you they love you and interact with you is like putting a bandaid over a bullet wound.
True. But even to know that there's someone there who will stop their car on the shoulder of Highway 94 and give you a bandaid is significant.
>You can't just rely on them to fix your emotional needs because you'll constantly be in need of it like a drug addict/alcoholic.
And idol fans are in constant need of it, which is where the reuptake of constant newness provided by longass streams almost daily comes in. Vtubing fills the niche better than singing idols or celebrity icons in that regard, doesn't it?
The supplier is in stock, in other words.
>All you're doing is promoting unhealthy behaviors, which if you understand is unhealthy isn't a big deal, but don't try to moralize it as an ethical good when it really isn't.
What's unhealthy about idol worship? Which aspect? The paypigging? The constant desire for streams?
Not to use an overwrought and perhaps offensive comparison, but how does it differ from religion? And which provides the most sustainable and genuine good?
You catch your oshi fucking Mafumafu and you're downhearted, but you can move on to new blood.
You catch the Catholic church embroiled in a global pedophilic sex ring coverup, and you continue sitting in the pews? You continue believing in the sanctity of the physical church, and the honesty of its priests?
I really don't mean to denigrate religion because I don't really mind it, but whose the real cuckolds and paypiggies here?
Do the tithes feel holy when you know they're going to the institutionalized sodomy of your communities children.
Now who is the ethical citizen? The grandma paying out her taxpayer funded social security to that demon infested church every sunday, or the zoomer catching his oshi's streams when he's not working a part time job?

>>32064085
>>32064148
>>32064208
>>32064289

>>32081819
Society really, really hates ugly/crippled/awkward people, to the point where every one of their substitute activities is deemed cringe, dangerous, criminal, pathetic, blasphemous, and really anything they can think of.
Pretty, good hearted people can't just leave us underdwellers alone. They need to make us contantly aware of hoe much we suck and can never have the life they have.

>>32081884
I read half of Thus Spoke Zarthustra. Prose was really good, but once he got to the part about the woman womensplaining how pathetic women are, I couldn't help bit laugh and put it down. I'm an incel beyond incels, but come on.
I do find the concept of the ubermensch interesting. Heroes that don't need to try... There's something to it, for sure, but its nothing I have experience with, as seof analyzing as I am.

>>32064085
good stuff

>>32081315
Culture development vs money making method. Japanese develop vtuber as their culture grow naturally, meanwhile westerners just want to turn it into money making tools. That's why corruption happened

>>32064085
>You're Not a Loser For Watching Vtubers
You can try as hard as you can to convince yourself of this but you're never going to convince others

They are false idols who have manifested in response to the modern crisis of lonliness, isolation and the fracturing of relations between men and woman. Unlike a proper idol or god who represent values that lead to the survival and betterment of it's adherents, the vtuber idol projects perfected femininity and simulates healthy relationships in order to amass attention and tributes/revenue/profit. They cannot inspire men to resolve or positively transmute his lonliness because then they would lose their attention and revenue and would cease to exist. It's psychosocial porn.
The Japanese, in their advanced state of decline, understand and deploy pure femininity in their idols to great success and profit from their broken men. But the encroachment of western values into vtubing is even worse because it demands the same level of worship and male submission to idols that display even less feminine ideals (doctrine of equality).

>>32094462
A fair and reasoned response.

>>32080624
Without the parasocial aspect, a vtuber idol cannot generate enough income to justify and continue her activities.