/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

no one is saying what the fuck talent freedom is, and why are fags agreeing vshojo has it but its fine because not having freedom is apparantly more freedom?
what are you retarded?

>>27781395
And in the end, the talent own none of this shit and it can all be taken away at any moment for any reason. Miko has said as much about how uncertain the entire business is which is why she is unsure if she should buy a house.
So yes, going indie or into a vtuber guild like Vshojo is always better for talent who are big enough to survive the transition away from the big corpos with all the money and this is what you will never admit to yourself.

>>27781395
Limitations breed creativity, freedom makes you lazy. Thas why artists try to go out of their comfort zone and participate at chalenges like inktober.

>>27781395
Restrictions Breed Creativity

>>27781506

What do they own?
>You Laugh You Lose Content

https://streamable.com/gm7921

>>27781506
Go to sleep, tatsucuck

>>27781444
>no one is saying what the fuck talent freedom is
It means they don't have any creative guideline from their company and can do or say wathever they want with their characters.

>>27781395
>>their own fucking convention with thousands of attendees
Imagine the smell.

>>27781541
>What do they own?
Their appearance, their character persona, their models, anything they pay for or paid for as a collective really.
A big corpo vtuber pays for a shit ton of things, the company doesn't give it to them for free, and the company still owns all that work in the end including the character who did it.

>>27781598
The Japanese lack the gene that makes sweat smell. Also there were a lot of cute girls there.

>>27781395
>>Ame's ideas starting trends and getting copied by JP and non JP vtubers constantly
Newfag here, which trends Ame started?

>>27781624
Imagine the guy on the mikodanye costume getting a boner when the cute girls came for a hug

>>27781506
It is like any other job, company owns means of production and the product. Same as artists, artists don't own characters they drew, do they? When will people understand. Going indie is like being freelancer, hard to manage and pays shit. Vshojo is like fiver for chubas.

>>27781506
>how uncertain the entire business is
>going indie or into a vtuber guild like Vshojo is always better

VShojo and Indies are not part of the "business" apparently...

>>27781624
>The Japanese lack the gene that makes sweat smell.
This is their cope yes,

>>27781624
You must think Japanese are Hyperborean alien hybrids.

>>27781643
Feetfags love her.

>>27781643

heres one newfag

the rest is your job

>>27781643
2d images of legs one I can remember. There is few more, but its hard to remember

>>27781657
>>27781676
https://bmcgenomdata.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2156-10-42
There's multiple scientific papers written about it, retards.

I have seen HoloEN girls react to memes while being afraid of show the memes on stream.

>>27781726
They forgot to translate that to English.

>Holos are rich as fuck
>COVER IS EXPLOITING THEM DARK COMPANY
meds

>>27781395
>>Remember that time nyanners played with fucking mini skate boards for children?
Pretty kindo stream though.

>>27781648
>Same as artists, artists don't own characters they drew, do they?
Which is why artists are allowed to work from company to company and become famous for their talent and their name gets well known.
This doesn't apply to vtubers who are known by their stage name only and that stage name can be taken away at any time and then you have to start form scratch unless you built up another channel already. See the problem here?

>>27781687
>>27781719
>>27781720
So she made a feet meme. Impressive.

>>27781506
>vtuber guild
It's called a corporation no matter how many times you shill it.

>>27781799
We got it vshojo shill. You've done enough to earn your 50 cents. Now go shit up another thread with your shilling.

>>27781801

Its just the start, chubbas starts being creative and putting alot of new ideas of their own.

>>27781506
Despite your points being logically and/or logistically correct, the people with said "freedom" have been the worst at taking advantage of it. Also see >>27781648, a lot of people shitting on hololive for these reason generally don't even know shit about the industries or business in general.
All this does is remind me of the post talking about most women only being tolerable under an oppressive moral code or something like that lol

If you think about it, the only person in VShojo that actually demonstrated true creativity, a real industry changer, an innovator. Was Melody. She's the first V-Camgirl. There are imitators that try to do what she does but no one does it better than Melody.

>>27781832

>Gonna save that, to shill the fuck out on those Kekson Apologist

>>27781864
Yeah I am sure she produced dozens of memes that you don't even remember.

>>27781832
This retard can't seperate Vtuber service provider company with Vtuber corporation company.

>>27781947
I'm starting to believe the vshojo paid shill rrats when I see this copypasted over and over.

>>27781832
>vtuber guild
Fucking lol
Even guilds had to have strict standards in order to keep the honor of the trade and would brutally excommunicate bad apprentices.

>>27781643
feet.png
That's about it, really

>>27781395
Look at all the shit Ame has done. She is most famous for her creativity at this point. What the Vwhores have is freedom to act like whores and for some reason they don’t need to get permissions for games. That’s it.

>>27781947
You are either a service provider or a company. Not both.

>>27781971

Their coping the fact that Json is Lying to their face about Vshojo is not a company.

>>27782037
In context it's clear she means that VShojo doesn't own the girls or the characters, which is different from Cover and Nijisanji.

>>27782099
>No you don't understand she didn't actually mean what she said, she meant something completely different
Also, Vshojo shills are arguing about stuff that isn't even what the thread is about. They can't refute that their "talents" use their "creative freedom" to make the laziest content possible. And that they ACTUALLY react to hololive clips.

>>27781395
Are there any geniune examples of the creative freedom that is exclusive to Vshojo? Like what have they done so far that showcaes this? I'd love to see some sampling of their creativity. I'm not overly familiar with their content.

>>27781947
Lmao, now you guys resort to call vshojo as "vtuber service company"? Exactly what kind of service vshojo provide? Anyone who wants to utilize their "service" must have already established in the industry in the first place. Vshojo is a rich kid club parading equality.
They want the stability of a corporation but retain the respect as an indie, absolutely laughable.

>>27782194
They doxed their applicants and bungled another court case by hiring known charlatans and copyright trolls.
A bunch of clowns would do a better job at being their "legal department". Can't believe Kson cited that as a selling point.

>>27781902
I hate cam whores but I gotta respect that she made all the other cam whores on chaturbate seethe

>>27782168
I don't mind react content since I do find interesting to learn about the strange things zoomers are into.

So what we have here in this thread is 1-2 anons foaming from the mouth with copium after being brainwashed to think that these ewhore vTubers (who are no better than camgirls) are somehow innovative just because of some pseudo business jargon used to separate them from literally any other company. Absolutely sad

>>27782189
Uhh, talking about cum guzzling, vagina, and reproductive organ diseases? Damn, being a hololiver must be a great suffering to be denied such creative freedom possibilities.

>>27781624
>lack the gene that makes sweat smell.
Its called regular baths

>>27781832
The difference is Hololive, for the most part, creates their talents characters whereas Vshoujo signs on existing Vtubers while allegedly offering them the security/legal protecting of a company. So if you leave Hololive you can't keep creating content under that name (not sure how this would work for someone like Suisei though), I presume if you left Vshoujo you would be able to keep your identity.

>>27782189
>Are there any geniune examples of the creative freedom that is exclusive to Vshojo?
Being able to change outfits at will, being able to play any games without permissions, being able to stream with literally anyone. But that's not exclusive since indies also have those freedoms.

>>27781395
Anon, "creative freedom" is just being able to collab with men, talk about men and be a whore. That's what it has always been, just sluts wanting to have the freedom to talk about how much dick they take.

>>27782349
That's basically it, so the anons arguing that they're more of a service provider may be correct. HOWEVER, that's exactly where the talking points stop. For some reason, vshitjo tards take this and run a mile with it, white knighting their company from hell and back pulling shit out of their ass and shitting on other companies just to validate themselves

>>27781540
better start using the JP restriction method, cause whatever they did with Council caused the complete opposite

>>27782405
>just sluts wanting to have the freedom to talk about how much dick they take

>>27781395
>>Ame's ideas starting trends and getting copied by JP and non JP vtubers constantly
what else aside the legs on table?

>>27782441
>Outing yourself this hard
Must be hard being this much of a cuck

>>27782419
The problem with other companies is that they aren't like VShojo, is that they often put too many restrictions or treat their talents badly. Coco and Rushia are both examples of them going too far. Coco got banishment roomed, and Rushia got her entire channel nuked. Firing them is one thing, but what they did was just extremely dickish.

>>27782385
>being able to play any games without permissions
The companies that actually DMCA strike people over this haven't actually taken notice of them yet. Rockstar, microsoft, capcom and Atlus HAVE DMCA'd people over monetizing game streams on twitch and some big streamers turn off ads and donations when streaming any of those games. Rockstar especially might notice them one day.
https://support.rockstargames.com/articles/200153756/Policy-on-posting-copyrighted-Rockstar-Games-material

>>27782472
unlike you i dont delude myself ibto believing im in a relationsip with my chuubas

>>27782472
I remember watching a Veibae clip where she says that anyone who watches porn is a cuck. But I haven't been able to find it again.

>>27782385
>being able to play any games without permissions
Not trying to start an argument but I'm not convinced that one is going to stick around. Not when they have talents living in Japan now. Vshojo could argue about how nip laws didn't apply to them because they were an American company before, but now publishers can just say "Play ball or we target your talents". If that happens they would have to decide between a never-ending permissions arc and throwing their JP branch under the bus. Because yes, they can just outright sue kson or Mikeneko directly.

>>27782492
I'm waiting for the day until Kson says or does anything that sets off the progressive mob like "trans rights what are those" and see how Vshojo will react to it.
I'm predicting that the unpersonning will be way way way worse.

>>27782525
GTAV is one of the biggest games on Twitch wtf are you talking about.

>>27782441
>and..?
Most vtbuers wouldn't be interested is that sort of "freedom" to begin with.

I'm not saying it shouldn't exist, though.

>>27782492
Coco I agree with, she deserved better (at the time). Rushia? You can't seriously defend someone who had that big of a women moment and risked her entire company bc she didn't know how to keep her mouth shut under pressure
>>27782529
>i dont delude myself ibto believing im in a relationsip with my chuubas
And for that reason you don't mind listening to veibae talk about getting fucked in the ass for 2 hours straight? Nvm you're not a cuck you're just retarded

>>27782419
>HOWEVER, that's exactly where the talking points stop.
Well there's also less restrictions on who you can stream with or what you can talk about. Like the vshoujo girls can talk about political things or stream with men (although I think this is more of a cultural issue, the hololive girls are like idols while the vshoujo girls are very western) even if you don't think those are good things it is definitely less restrictive

>>27782544
Maybe Twitch in Japan works differently, but in the US there is a lot less copyright restrictions. Disguised Toast even tested how far he could go by streaming fucking anime, and he got away with it for a few days.

>>27782577
>vshoujo girls can talk about political things or stream with men
Ah yes. I myself enjoy listening to Melody and TTSman talk about current American political bullshit and telling me how I, a white male not living anywhere near America am the cause of all of this. That's the kind of quality content people enjoy.

>>27782577
>Well there's also less restrictions on who you can stream with or what you can talk about
Giving western women that kind of freedom has RARELY ever gone well >>27781899

>>27782571
>You can't seriously defend someone who had that big of a women moment and risked her entire company
She leaked a chat from a manager that was bullying her. You can fire her over that, but deleting the entire channel just shows total vindictiveness.

>>27782264
Yeah that blatant shill is so annoying, now I am thinking of listing hololive's pros to justify their model ownership:

-You get the model for free, hololive paid all of the expenses.
-You are able to debut on a platform with a guarantee of minimum 100k subscribers.
-You get a nice PV from gen 6, council and above.
-You get a manager to handle a lot of behind the scenes stuff for you.
-The biggest selling point: You get access to the holobox, the best collaboration network in the entire industry.
-You get minimum monthly wages.
-Some of your original songs are financed by the company.
-After half a year, you get a 3D model for free, complete with a grand reveal.
-You get at least 1 free costume per year on average (although there's pekora case).
-Much higher sponsorship opportunity compared to indies or other company.
-Free anniversary concert.

I probably did not list them all, and some of the point did not apply to EN and ID because of the travel ban and no international office, but those points are good enough for me.

>>27782556
My impression is that the girls are all over the place politically, with Nyanners being more to the left and Veibae more towards the right. That didn't stop them from cyberfucking each other back in the day.

>>27782577
>Well there's also less restrictions on who you can stream with or what you can talk about. Like the vshoujo girls can talk about political things
I can't wait to hear the anti abortion stances of these girls
oh wait

>>27782624
t. VTweeter

>>27782643
It's kinda silly to say that VShojo doesn't have freedom, then go around saying that freedom is bad and that VShojo is bad for having such freedom.

>>27782746
Literally when did anyone say they don't have freedom?

>>27782652
>After half a year, you get a 3D model for free

>>27782652
You also have open access to all of Cover's facilities which includes three fully staffed 3D studios and streaming rooms with a stream-ready setup, all the latest consoles and games.

>>27782705
considering the content they put out what else would you expect

i like that the corpo vtubers go to the office or studio and meet each other irl and work on something together. kind of like going to school or church

>>27782757
Several anons ITT

>>27782644
>Not knowing how the Japanese work
Anon they're quick to put their foot down in order to cover things up and set an example, it's simply in their culture, especially the industry culture. They may go over/under board at times but a simple solution against that is simply don't blatantly fuck up.
Also for fact checking, she leaked far more than just 1 manager and revealed not one but serveral manager and associate staff names placing their hidden workers in actual danger

holofags were literally trashing non-streaming vtubers because of this stale shit and now they're defending it because it makes holos look bad, lmao

>>27782644
>She leaked a chat from a manager that was bullying her
That's not what happened idiot

>>27782764
I mean, we know that this is because of something that is out of cover's hands.
ID gen1 announced that cover was flying them to Japan for the 3D reveal right before wu flu restrictions got worse and they couldn't anymore. There's no reason for cover to block Irys' 3D if they're willing to go that far for ID.
It's probably some fuckery with redjuice.

>>27782816
Quote them right now.

>>27782818
it's also that she breached her contract, they had to fire her
she was their top earner i doubt it was an easy decision

>>27782577
>stream with men
To be clear, collabing with men is not banned in Hololive. There are many cases of the girls collabing with holostars. Both in the JP branch and in the EN branch where Bae notably collabed with Roberu recently. Apex-wise people have streamed with RPR before so it's not some hardline rule at all. What actually tends to happen is that the men need to be vetted first to make sure they aren't going to say something stupid and tank the poor girl's career. It is true that many of them just don't want to collab with men because of a concern of lost profits due to upsetting some fans. But that's a cultural thing like you said.

I excluded ID from this discussion because they frankly just do whatever they want and I'm genuinely not sure they even have management.

>>27782643
>>27782746

>>27782818
I have heard some of those nightmare stories regarding Japanese working culture. Actually saw one in real time when Kojima was put in the banishment room.

>>27781719
this feet thing was an asset someone else made like snuffy's gamepad asset

>>27782829
That's the statement she made and Cover immediately backtracked on their previous statement.

>>27782644
>muh deleted channel
Every fucking vtuber deletes their channel when they quit. It's standard practice.
You acting like deleting the channel is some kind of act of terrorism against her and her fans is fucking retarded.

>>27782764
>1 free costume per year

>>27782644
>Vshojofags now timelooping and gaslighting things that they don't understand because they don't know what korekore said because they're EOPfags
Keep talking out of your ass so everyone can point at you and laugh.

>>27782899
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS9uQI-jC3DE0L4IpXyvr6w/featured

>>27782931
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgZuwn-O7Szh9cAgHqJ6vjw/videos

>>27782926
Cover admitted Rushia was right after she threatened to sue them for slander.

>>27782931
Lulu and Gibara got their channels deleted but vshojofags like you probably don't even know they existed.

>>27782859
>It is true that many of them just don't want to collab with men because of a concern of lost profits due to upsetting some fans
Yes this is more what I meant, iirc Rushia one time streamed with a man (not talking about the mfmf drama) and many of her fans were upset. But she was also a GFE streamer so it makes sense.
It's not that they literally cannot collab with men, they just rarely ever do as much, even the ones that clearly say "I am not your girlfriend, no gachikoi allowed." Vshoujo girls don't really seem to have this concern.

>>27782433
Council got almost everything provided by Myth.

>>27782947
Aloe had a hard life.

>>27782950
>lying by omission
>he thinks people here can't read

>>27782950
They never did that.

>>27782764
My bad, I forget Irys somehow. She's great tho, I hope her eventual 3D is fantastic.

>>27782953
I am not saying Nijisanji is better either.

>>27782950
Wasn't it the other way around where they doubled down

>>27782887
You are getting it wrong, it was a senpai of her who was bullying her and she was also upaet at her manager for not being of much help on the discord yab but apparently
Cover didn't backtrack on their previous statement they actually doubled down on it
Your memory is fucked up dude

>>27782963
They thought they didn't have that concern. Nyanners getting a boyfriend DECIMATED her income.

>>27783013
She is never getting a 3D. Her contract will expire and she will announce her graduation.

>>27783039
His memory isn't fucked up, he's just pushing lies and seeing if people will accept them as fact. It's pretty common among the Mikeneko defence force.

>>27783026
Their statement was pretty much admitting she was right.

>holofags expect people to take their arguments seriously when all their information is literally memes from the holobubble

>>27782887
Cover never backtracked on their previous statement. Cover doubled down saying there is nothing wrong in their statement and will never change it

>>27782275
>Vshojo shills talking out their ass just to shit on holofags
>Not actually defending their company and just resorting to timelooping the same talking points while bringing up past controversies
/thread

>>27783045
That's not a nice thing to say anon

>>27783062
>Cover bootlicker doing damage control for their beyond blacked company

>>27782275
pretty sure vshojochads are the only ones that have an actual argument and holobronies just spout whores at everything

I'm sure restrictions on Hololive are more like guidelines.

Just like echi manga, editors make sure the mangaka does not cross Hentai territory so they can publish it along side any other Christian manga.

>>27783065
>>27782950
>>27782887
So this fancuck faggot stops spreading lies https://youtu.be/SH_QWrdhR68

>>27783099
They claimed that Rushia misread the statement, and that her own statement was correct. It was a total admission of defeat.

>>27783129
>making up bullshit
>people calling you out
>m-muh bootlicker, m-muh black company

>>27782796
well, you said they had freedom

how to scare holofags

>>27783154
>drama channel

>>27781598
Smells like millions of ¥ in profit

>>27783160
Anon, it should be easier to directly quote cover's statement that says the thing you claim they said. But of course you won't, because it was all the voice in your head.

>>27783065
https://twitter.com/cover_corp/status/1540534044194390016
Go eat shit and die fancuck with your gaslighting. I literally have every fucking piece of information about this stashed in a text file because of you lying faggots. Next you're going to tell me she never suicide baited on corporate accounts like you previously did. Which itself was fucking grounds for termination. I got that archived too.

>>27783199
I'm saying why would you expect them to be anti abortion
Or did some vshoujo girl say something anti abortion get silenced for it? I'm not in the loop

>>27781395
ok i will bite cause im bored
>no creative freedom
true

>hundreds of song releases
vtuber music is cringe and if you listen to them on a daily basis you're likely 12 year old

>concerts
look above

>their own fucking convention with thousands of attendees
ok ill give u this one bro

>animated shorts
everyone does that and cover isnt the first to do it

>sports festival
in fucking minecraft

>cooking streams
while being covered more than a muslim nigger in a hijab

>cross branch game tournaments
none

>record deals
rofl

>Ame's ideas starting trends and getting copied by JP and non JP vtubers constantly
literally only the feet trend did, and it got boring after 1 stream

>hundreds of different variety streams
apex, minecraft, zatsu

>list goes on and on
ok then say more

>>27783178
It's literally a black company. Putting top talents in banishment rooms, deleting entire channels out of spite, forcing workers to move from their house. The later is the kind of shit that only human traffickers and cults do.

>>27783268
ok then
why would you expect them to be anti-abortion?

>>27783295
>vtuber music is cringe and if you listen to them on a daily basis you're likely 12 year old
Some of the girls have nice singing voices tbdesu. Paying 50 bucks for a concert of a hologram is retarded though

>>27783312
pro*

>>27783160
>We would like to reiterate on our company's position that there was no error in the past release, nor have we ever acknowledged any error from the past release.

>>27783265
Thats' literally damage control from Cover after they admitted Rushia's statement was correct. Legally speaking they cannot admit fault, which is why they previously claimed she misread the first statement on her termination.

>>27783295
>vtuber music is cringe and if you listen to them on a daily basis you're likely 12 year old
>look above
Subjective, not an argument.
>in fucking minecraft
Not an argument
>while being covered more than a muslim nigger in a hijab
Your vshojo oshis would be disappointed that you used racism as an argument anon kun.
>none
KEK ok you clearly have no idea what you're talking about I guess.
>rofl
Amazing argument once >again.apex, minecraft, zatsu
Check the main channel.

Amazing how you people have to resort to non arguments and lying instead of naming things vshojo did.

>>27783400

cope harder holofaggot, your company is not unique and just another corpo that wants you as their paypig

>>27783339
They just seem like typical "sexually liberated" feminist types. I mean that's a lot of guesswork but one of their girls is a literal camgirl

>>27781395
Vshojo just started in 2020 and didn't have much money until earlier this year. Not sure why you'd make such a strange comparison. The talents don't have the kind of money to fund or make those kinds of things happen individually.

>>27783207
No that's numberfags

>>27783395
source for cover admitting Rushia's statement was correct?

>>27781395
>hololive
>forced collabs with people who don't like each other
>shitty music churned out for the sake of it
>cringe convention that's mostly empty dioramas or merch stands
>half the stream content minecraft or reading out superchats
>don't own your name
>don't own your model
>all your hard work a yab and firing away
>getting harassed by bugmen? you're on your own and better quit!
>getting harassed by management? better keep quiet if you like your job!
>calli has to work twice as hard to build up a brand she actually owns and can't be stolen by cover


>vshojo
>actually own who you are and what you do
>stream how you like with whom you like when you want to
>don't have to pretend to be single or a lesbian for a mentally ill audience that would harass you otherwise
>don't have to pretend taiwan isn't a country

>>27783295
Oh wow, from your counter points it seems like you don't like vtuber space in general? Who is your favorite chuuba then? I am interested. I myself like marine because her zatsudan is pretty comfy, her drawing is decent enough and I like her originals and touhou song cover.

>>27783423
>>27783431
I accept your concessions. Glad we can agree that Vshojo doesn't do shit with their freedom.

>vshitjo tard(s) found the thread
>Sudden wave of posts with bait levels of autism
Yeah I think this has proven my point >>27783110, I've seen all I've needed to

>>27781506
Nice way to tell everyone you are unemployed and you never worked once in your life anon!
Also
>vtuber guild like vshojo
Are you fucking retarded?

>>27783295
No, you're not biting because you are bored, you're biting because you are retarded.
You've failed to bring up a single point that showcases the strength of being an indie/being in Vshojo, instead you're just downplaying corpo content based on subjective opinions, ignoring that no indie/Vshojo member is doing more than corpos.

>>27781395
I have vshojo, i can't bear most of their talents and i fucking hate reaction style content, i think it's lowest, laziest bottom of the barrel content.
Nonetheless, i think you're overstimating Hololive creativity.
>They don't compose nor do the lyrics of the songs. Other companies (including Vshojo) also do this.
>The concerts are (apart from something over other major companies do also) mostly generic affairs with scripted MC segments, prerecorded singing and the idol style of dancing which is choreographies dance teachers make up and they learn how to do. Hardly anything super creative by their part. I would argue rather that it's a very rigid thing full of conventions.
>The convention was literally a massive shill for merchandise and sponsor that went really well. Also it's a copy of something Niji did first, even having a exposition of the character customes.
>I concede about the hologra segments
>Literally a copy of something Nijisanji did first and also they do it like one day per year. Random ass hispanic streamers i watch have like 4 waaay more elaborated minecraft series/worlds to play a role in every year. Hell, even the second sport festival was already recycling some of the games.
>Hololive didn't invent cooking streams.
>Sponsor streams. yawn.
>That's not creative.
>Good for Ame. Someone actually pushing vtubing a bit out.
>99% of them the same shit you have seen 10's of times if you have been watching for some time.
>No it doesn't.

>>27783464
>Didn't name a single fucking creative stream vshojo did just lists a bunch of lies about hololive that aren't even what the topic is about
I'm beginning to think OP might have a point. Vshojo shills have yet to name anything Vshojo did that matches hololive's big events.

>>27783427
ok but there is nothing stopping them to talk about how anti abortions there are, that alone tells us there is no such freedom you talk about

>>27782705
>I can't wait to hear the anti abortion stances of these girls
Funny you say that because one of Mikeneko's exes claimed she had an abortion and she absolutely freaked out about that.
She would probably rather say she's anti abortion than pro since she's dead set on denying she ever had an abortion due to the stigma in Japan.

>>27783574
>there is nothing stopping them to talk about how anti abortions there are
>that alone tells us there is no such freedom you talk about
What

>>27781902
Mouse becoming one the most viewed streamers in the world while bringing together vtubers from all companies sounds like a trendsetter to me.

>>27783431
>The talents don't have the kind of money to fund or make those kinds of things happen individually.
I thought they were making way more than holos though since they have no cuts. What happened to that?

>>27783602
Ah yes. Can't forget all that sleeping she did onstream to get there. Truly an inspiration for all vtubers.

>>27783295
>>27783308
>>27783423
>>27783464
>>27783533
At this point I pray and hope these posts made aren't from actual vshojo shills and that some shitposter just found the thread late and started posting bait.....

>>27783533
>They don't compose nor do the lyrics of the songs.
How is this a bad thing? You're also wrong.

>>27783043
She stopped streaming for months because she moved. No need to be dishonest.

Me and my guildmates prepping for our Friday Night react session.

>creative freedom is le bad because people talk about sex
>content creators that benefit from it like pewdiepie and videogamedunkey do nothing with it and just spam sex jokes

>>27783599
the freedom you talk about is nothing but a facade
what is so hard to understand

>>27783602
This is extremely skewed because of the subathon

>>27783676
pewdie and dunkey are Vshojo now?

>>27783679
or maybe none of them are anti abortion

Nothing says creative freedom like talking about how one time you were on your period and that your vagina looked like Lasagne
Or reacting to vine compilations filled with unfunny zoomer garbage.

>>27783682
Yeah, 90% of those streams was her sleeping or not doing anything onstream because she streamed for weeks straight. Revolutionary content.

>>27782652
Maaan, i already knew and have discussed about all of these but seeing them in bullet points make me realize how sweet of a deal getting into Hololive is.
From some point you don't even have to stream much at all and can just focus on your musical career.
Easily one of the best jobs you can get as a internet personality.

>>27781395
It says talent freedom. Learn to read you dumb bitch.

You should know that to a woman "creative freedom" means being allowed to be gangbanged on camera.

>>27783464
>>don't have to pretend to be single or a lesbian for a mentally ill audience that would harass you otherwise
Are you seriously saying this after what Nyanners did the past few months?

>>27783754
In before a vshojokek actually goes.
>SHE SAID SHE WAS ONLY 99% LESBIAN

>>27783618
They all make their own money that they spend on whatever they want. They don't give it to Vshojo. The talents would have to decide to spend their own money on this kind of stuff, but they generally spend it on upgrading their models and other stuff for their own streams. Like I said, it wasn't til earlier this year, the agency actually got big money. Even then, You still have the concert with Nyanners and Kizuna Ai, the Vills concert with Mouse, Nyan, and Silvervale, and the massive success of them at AX this year.

>>27783789
Yeah I'm pretty sure melody is the only that actually likes girls

>>27783649
The vast majority of the songs they release except a few songs of 1-2 chuubas have the lyrics and the composition of professional dudes, and i know because i usually check the description.
The talent isn't being creative, they're paying money for others to do the job. The only thing they do is the singing, and if they follow what pop singers do they're probably following some song demo on how to sing the song correctly.

Here's the thing. Kson wants to eat her cake and have it too and she can only do that exactly because she is an ex-holo.
In the end the only freedom that matters is financial freedom, and joining hololive basically gives you that for free, and it lasts for years even after you leave. Let's not pretend that anyone would care about Kson or the new girl if they didn't have the context of being ex-holos.
What is worse than not being able to do "creative" content? Working your ass off to do them in your free time and no one watching it. And it not paying your bills. And the way get big outside of just getting randomly lucky and becoming viral, is getting into an established fanbase and getting marketing investment.
And that's exactly what Hololive does. They share their (financial) success with you and invest in you in exchange for control. No one would invest that much into property that doesn't belong to them and can just take your investment and dip, that's just simple logic. You don't pay to renovate someone else's house.
And one of the biggest appeals of Hololive is exactly the walled garden approach. If anyone could just enter and leave, that would just completely diminish the point of it and ruin their brand. You keep in line and in turn you get as much content as you want to and have the energy to work at funded, at a reasonable level. And the content in turn grows you and the brand, creating a positive feedback loop.

An indie coalition will never reach that critical mass of shared investment because in the end it's everyone paying for themselves while they share some resources. And on the off chance that they actually do, they will inevitably tighten down on the creators to protect their investment.

In the end it's all about the money. Financial freedom gives you creative freedom. Kson can be creatively free because she has the money. Most indies don't have this luxury, and joining a company that cannot provide them that will never be as attractive.

>>27783629
Sleeping once a day is pretty normal for most people.

>>27783676
Dunkey is a genius, fuck you.

vshojo girls have the creative freedom to talk about how much cock they suck and be in relationships with bigger streamers for clout

>>27783810
>it wasn't til earlier this year, the agency actually got big money
>the agency
But you said
>The talents don't have the kind of money to fund or make those kinds of things happen individually.
>individually
So do they, individually, have the money or not? Holos pay for things out of their own pocket all the time and they apparently make way less than Vshojo members.

>>27783810
They only earn money from donations and members. Hololive get superchats, members, merch and sponsorship

>>27783852
So not really trendsetting content then?

>>27783855

keep saying it

>>27783841
So in your mind having no songs is exactly the same as having songs if you paid a known composer to make it instead of spending years to learn to make every single thing youself.
Is this really what you Vshojofags pass for an argument?

Decades from now, Hololive will be remembered as the legendary vTubing agency with iconic and beloved characters. vShojo probably wont even have a wikipedia article. Personally I'd rather be immortalized in the former.

>>27783843
For all the memes she made about Yagoo, Kson owes him her entire career.

>>27783858
>Vwhores make more money than Holomens
Rumao

>>27783395
>>27783451
Still no source?

>>27783843
Wasn't Kson popular pro-Holo though? Not Kiryu Coco level but enough to have some fans

>>27783858
>So do they, individually, have the money or not? Holos pay for things out of their own pocket all the time and they apparently make way less than Vshojo members.

How much money do you think they need to make as individuals to make all of these things happen?
>hundreds of song releases
>concerts
>their own fucking convention with thousands of attendees
>animated shorts
>sports festival
>record deals
Because individually, holos aren't making any of these things happen either. Hololive is.

Mouse made over 500,000 dollars in febuary but if she paid for all of this out of her own pocket, she'd lost all of it, and that's on top of her medical bills.

>>27783912
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that using it as a example of "creative freedom" when a vshojo could open the simp wallet and have a song made the same way maybe it's not as creative as you may think.
I haven't say anything about their quality or making any comparison like that.

>>27784049
>Because individually, holos aren't making any of these things happen either.
All solo songs are paid for by themselves so yes they are.

This whole discussion is pointless as fuck. While it is true that Vshojo will let you do anything, ultimately creative content comes down to the individual talents and the money they are willing to sacrifice for it regardless if they are from Hololive/Nijisanji or if they are at Vshojo.

>>27784075
>I'm not saying that.
That's exactly what you're saying. Your argument here is that vshojo could do it too but they don't because they value being free or something rather than the more likely truth that they're too lazy and stingy to make it happen.

>>27784162
Hiring pro songwriters is not creative so hololive does zero creative content.

>>27784162
and when you consider the fact that doing react content, the lowest form of content creation, is what gets vShojo the most views, there is really no reason for them to exercise their 'creative freedom' because the average viewer is a boring retard. This whole thing is performative shitflinging.

>>27784162
So basically anons have been right since the OP and these retards still replying in the thread should give up already. Pretty sure SEA hours are the only thing keeping this thread alive because they lack the cognitive social abilities to see when to put an end to it

>>27784194
Exactly, you have proven to me that their creative freedom is worthless

>>27784225
Man that anon's point just flew over your head

>>27784162
>This whole discussion is pointless as fuck
no you retard

>>27781395
>>27781587
So did Hololive at one point, they didn't even had the whole permission bullshit, but then bad things start happening, because of vultures waiting for an opportunity to fuck the girls over and exploiting Youtube's shitty system to do so. Hololive got more and more restrictions as incidents start happening that kept destroying their talent's streams and channels.

There's no such thing as freedom when you have so many eyes on you, many which are not from fans but people that want to destroy you and watch you fail. Not to mention, you just accept these restrictions when it's becomes common that you being a target will hurt your friends and everyone around you too.

>>27784225
You're nervous that Vshojo is not creative so you need to invalidate someone else's effort

>>27781799
Well cover never forbid their talents to have side hustle. Noel makes millions from her rm while being noel. Same with Azki. She still got sponsorships, merchs, concerts, songs, product collabs from being Azki while doing concerts, making songs, selling merchs, as her rm.
What's your excuse next?

>>27784256
>>27784162
>Limitations are better for creativity.
You're just proving OPs point by saying that all creative freedom gets you is the lowest effort garbage content.

>>27783308
meds now

>>27784106
Hololive provides a budget for their projects. If they exceed the budget they have to pay out of pocket. HoloX basically all got free original songs and covers as soon as they joined.

>>27782385
None of this is creative.
All this is part of the course for streamers.
Creativity thrives under restrictions, unrestrained "creativity" gets your George Lucas when no one was able to tell him "No George, this idea is fucking stupid and doesn't make sense"

>>27784106
All unit songs are paid for by hololive and a bunch of solo songs are. They even bought some super popular songs back from the talents.

>>27782595
Nips can't do shit without explicit written permission from copyright holder. In every other place in the world the copyright laws don't matter when it comes to video game streaming.

>>27784444
>Hololive provides a budget for their projects
No they don't. It depends entirely on what they're doing if they get support from the company.
>HoloX basically all got free original songs and covers as soon as they joined.
They didn't and the pattern with their songs prove you wrong further with La+'s song being made by her friend rather than someone they had to pay for.

>>27784486
>They even bought some super popular songs back from the talents.
Source?

>>27784449
lmoa this guy trying to take jabs at george lucas as a shitty corpo vtuber fan

>>27784535
It's not that it doesn't matter, most companies don't bother going after small fries. Legally they still have to get a license. And if it's a company, then even more so.

>>27784537
They do pay for original songs. It's why a lot pf holos talk about asking to get an original or needing permission to make an album, because they get budgeted by Cover. Projects like Polka's Legend are certain to be funded by Cover as well.
https://youtu.be/MDzlayOiVro

>>27781444
It's because Burgers have been conditioned for decades to immediately see the word "Freedom" and start clapping even if it's being attached to something so vague it's meaningless.
Guess what the biggest userbase on this site is?

>>27785012
Yeah it's not worth the time and effort to go after some 1view streamer. They'd go bankrupt if did that.

>>27784449
Say what you want about George Lucas but the new trilogy made the prequels look golden in comparison.

>>27782037
> JSON

>>27783602
I always love how everyone is happy in this pic but Pekora

>kson and rushia joins another company
>2 weeks of seething
Calm down son, they're just anime girls.

>>27783045

>>27781643
> pioneered the use of streaming assets such as blankets, extra feet, lying on the couch, newspaper reading etc.
> pioneered the use of smol models to create 3D content using VRchat.
> set up her own 3D mocap studio to help Kiara's b'day live.
and many more, do your reps newfag

>>27782460
playing around with color filters, having personalized props and backgrounds, playing around with crop/clone filters, using the camera system she had made for VRchat, smol 3D vrchat collabs in general, pre-recorded duet karaokes

>>27787339
> pioneered the use of streaming assets such as blankets, extra feet, lying on the couch, newspaper reading etc.
Except she didn't.

>>27787339
Retarded newfag

>>27787695
she codified it

>>27787725
She didn't.

>>27787744
proof?

>>27787765
Japanese artists were posting blankets and arms and other materials on twitter for vtubers to use long before she made her stream. They also don't care about her so she didn't influence what they do one bit.

>>27781395
>Have the freedom to do what you want and be creative
>React to YouTube videos
>Play games
>Talk about dicks
>Coomer bait
>Sleep on stream
>Talk about the same boring politics that are overly present in other media already
>Rub anime pussy on Chaturbate
>Excessive needless swearing

So can the Vsimps please explain where the creativity and good content is? I really tried to get into it, but the content is just not as good, and I just don't see them doing anything original or special. I like twitch more as a platform, but that's about it.

>>27781444
JP VS USA

OBVIOUS USA = FREEDOM

>>27787744
She did you fucking idiot. Apple didn't make the first smartphone, but they are the ones who truly started the trend and made it popular.

Go watch this:
https://youtu.be/vzkZa2Az7us

Fucking retard

>>27788397
>watch this ENfag
Yeah I don't think I will. I know what was going on with Japanese indies while you never followed any of them.

>>27788218
proof?

>>27788444
Don't watch it then. You're still wrong though.

>>27788223
The freedom they are talking about is the freedom to do that shit. Cover denying their talents the freedom to do low effort content forces them to be more creative. Most of the time anyway. They still need to ban tier lists.

>>27788577
You're the one who's wrong. Your "proof" is one guy sucking EN dick as hard as he can while not knowing that Japanese indies were doing.
You are best can claim that Ame was the first "popular" vtuber to do it, even though even that is wrong.

>>27781395
amerimutt apes are creatively bankrupt. their films, comics, cartoons, novels, games, everything is fucking garbage. everything. both woke trash and non woke shit are nothing but fucking garbage.

its beyond stupid they still unironically believe they make something superior to japanese stuff. cant fathom how fucking dumb and narcissistic they are

>>27781506
My guy, Miko isn't talking about Hololive when she says that. She's talking about streaming in general. Streaming is an uncertain job, whether you're in VShojo or Holo.

>>27788650
Funny that you say that, but the YouTuber in question speaks Japanese, and 90% of his videos are about Japanese Vtubers.

I don't give a shit about the guy that made the video though. He simply sums up the evidence so I don't have to do it. Meanwhile, the only thing you contributed is saying "you're wrong".

Take your meds and do your reps you insufferable retard.

>>27789065
>Funny that you say that, but the YouTuber in question speaks Japanese
That doesn't change the fact that he is ignoring everything indies did. Ame didn't invent shit.

>>27789140
You're wrong.

>>27789263
Your "proof" is just a video that lists what she did.

>>27789308
She is a million times more creative than Kson

>>27789432
I'm not even arguing that. Amelia is just not the god queen vtuber that sets literally every new trend like you claim she does.

>>27789552
Still better than all Vwhorejo put together

>>27789308
Where is your proof then anon?

>>27789633
I wasn't arguing that either.

>>27781395
Are you saying Amerimutt Niggers can make shit? They always only talk big. Look at their garbage woke comics and cartoons. They are the product of talent/creative freedom. Amerimutts are just lazy and uninspired niggers.

>>27782950
why are you lying anon ? cover never admitted they were in any wrong nor there is any error in their statement, so i'm waiting this miguel gato to sue them

>>27783602
The bottom row looks like a parody of the one above it.

>>27781395
Talent freedom = "reacting" to YouTube videos for 8 hours

>>27788650
>>27789140
Who are those "indies" you speak of? You could have easily BTFO'd that anon by posting some names or screenshots instead of just repeating "ur wrong lul" as infinintum like a retard

>>27781395
Watame has been infinitely more creative than any of these sluts without even thinking about it.

>>27783308
None of what you just stated is accurate to events and you need to seek mental help.

>>27781395
The Talent Freedom thing is a bit asinine. The confusion around Vshojo stems from two things:

1. Vshojo presents itself as another major player in the vtubing space in which the top dogs are ENTERTAINMENT COMPANIES like Hololive and Nijisanji.
2. However, Vshojo is not an entertainment company. It is an INFLUENCER TALENT AGENCY.

There are a billion other identical influencer talent agencies that represent other streamers and content creators, but those agencies typical exist in the background unlike Vshojo and you don't attach words like "corporate" to those streamers. Since Vshojo is so forward and in your face with their branding, it's natural that people would mistake them as being an entertainment company like Hololive.

Entertainment companies pretty much own their talent. The holos are owned by Cover the same way a kpop group like BlackPink is owned by YG Entertainment. That is the level of control that is exerted over them. The company can force collabs, force sponsorships, force appearances, etc. The entertainment company is entitled to a cut of all the money that you make with the character that they own with only exceptions that the company itself decides to allow.

Influencer Talent Agencies do not have this kind of power. It is not even within the scope of their operation to have that sort of power. These agencies simply negotiate rates with sponsors and merch companies and then pass on those OFFERS to the talents that they represent. The talents then accept or decline at their own discretion. The agency then takes (typically) 10-20 percent from that deal, and they ONLY take money from opportunities that they themselves bring to the talent.

That's why the "Talent Freedom" thing is so stupid. Like, BITCH their freedom wasn't yours to grant them in the first place. That's not a "Vshojo" specific thing. You're a talent agency, not an entertainment company.

name one (1) creative thing vshojo did during their time created. you watch vshojo if you wanna watch a fleshtuber talking behind a Live2D. so are you even in the fandom at that point?

>>27792962
Ans yet se still has the shittiest model in vtubing

>>27793641
t. gayest man alive

>>27793565
well, yoinking two top talents of their competitor was pretty creative

>>27793357
This, you can have all the freedom you want as an indie, but that comes with the cost of having to foot everything yourself and stagnating as a 2 view. It's like people expect hololive to just give the girls their brand power for free with zero cost or repercussions.

>>27793824
is it yoinking if one already left the company and one was fired? it's not like footy where a player contract was finished so they joined on a free.

>>27793824
>yoinking used goods rejected by cover
Lmao