/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>189672
/vt/ /djt/?

>>189672
I don't need it because their love for me transcends any language barrier and our bond is beyond any human understanding.

>>189672
English subs vary from ESL that also don't understand Japanese to cancerous shit like *cute laugh* *doggo smile* that makes the videos unwatchable. Thank God I picked up moon however many years ago.

四ヶ月頃に勉強してます
レプスをして
日本語には終わりがない

I can read some katakana and hiragana letters

I'm N3, would have taken N2 last year if the exams weren't cancelled because of the 'rona.

>>189672
>knowing any language other than English
The mark of the 3rd worlder.

>>189920
誰もお前を愛してないよ

I'm still only N4 so I can understand about half of they say, except JSL/JTL chuubas who I can understand most of the time

>>190195
>knowing any language other than English
The mark of the 3rd worlder.

我日本語理解可能、話題主同性愛

>>190111
>日本語には終わりがない
勉強はまだ足りないですね。

>>190235
watch SOL stuff like k-on or yuru camp. It's pretty easy to understand and is a godscend for sentence mining early on.

>>189672
Started at the beginning of December, just finished working through the Tango N5 book + a "kanjified" Anki deck for it + some extra kanji study. Moving onto the Tango N4 book now.

>>190291
This is something I was planning to do - can you recommend any other basic slice of life stuff?

>>190173
>>190235
>Nx
ngmi

>>190332
Boku no Pico is required watching.

>>190286
I was trying to say that japanese doesn't an end. Where's the mistake? I suspect it's the particles.

>>190332
Haibane Renmei

>>190286
they use the kanji from feet? didn't know thx anon.

>>190380
>doesn't an end

Haven't got enough Eng reps it seems

>>190404
>>190369
thank you anons

I have no idea what N# I'm at, I just translate hentai while listening to Chuubas as background noise.

Is there an online test?

>>189672
I started learning last may or so? My knowledge is all over the place but I’m making nice progress.

I want to start again because JP vtubers seem to have better taste in games. I just rewatch the stream with youtube auto-subs.

>>189672
I just make up what they say in my head.

少しずつ上手になってるけどまだ下手なんだ。

>>190241
Kill yourself.

>>189672
i know a basic amount of japanese, enough to understand reactions in streamer bait games, but not enough to watch a zatsudan.

I've done amateur manga and game translations before, though I'd always worked only with text. Watching vtubers has improved my auditory understanding a fair amount. I recommend Okayu, she's easy to listen to.

>>189672
少しだけ分からなければ視聴してのは無意味だろう?

>>189672
I actually watched Japanese let's players on nicodouga in 2009 to help me learn Japanese. There was a small scene of JSL players too, and I'd help translate clips. I'm really happy vtubers are a thing. For some reason the Japanese were so reluctant to use YouTube and using Niconico from America was a pain in the ass.

JLPT N1 for 5 years, still can't read kanji for shit. Pretty much passed the exam thanks to my full Listening section. Who needs to learn kanji anyways when you have kanjitomo and furigana injectors?

>>194805
wtf anon...

>>189672
I know enough. I started watching vtubers specifically to help with my listening comprehension.

>>194805
Stop lying you absolute retard, you don't even know what are the requirements for N1

>>189672
AAAAAAAAAAA
I LEFT /jp/
STOP HAUNTING MEEEEEEEEEEE

me

can you actually learn japanese mostly by watching these vids?
obviously there's some grammar and kanji that needs to be learned.

>>196249
"Some grammar and kanji" will fuck you up, anonchama. Watching JP streams does help though. Mostly with motivation.

>>189672
I'm a dekinai

>watch Pikamee
>try to see how much of her Japanese you can understand
>check your work when she inevitably repeats herself in English
Been doing this for 3 months and I'm slowly understanding more of it

>>189672
I've picked up a lot. I've settled more on a goal of just expanding my vocabulary.

Shirayuri Lily is a great streamer to watch for that. She live translates Niche Western games, and zatsudans often end up being discussions about english or japanese phrases that lead to the chat finding different new ways to tease her about it.

>>196249
Of course you're not gonna learn anything if you don't have any sort of starting point. Yeah you need at least some basic grammar knowledge and vocabulary. You need kanji if you want to be able to read too.
Also a raw vtuber stream is not the greatest practice for a beginner. It's better to watch an anime or movie or something that has subs, the scripted dialogue means you won't be confused by stuttering or misspoken words, and you can immediately check in the subs if you actually understood anything or not. Watching someone talk freely in real time should come later.

That is all my opinion and I'm entirely self taught, so I could be wrong.

>>189672
I'm like about N3 level? I can sometimes understand them a lot, sometimes not. It's kinda luck of the draw but I'm constantly learning new vocab just from listening to them and going "I would have understood that entire sentence except for ___, what does that mean" and noting it down for the reps. Some Holos are much easier to understand than others due to their speech patterns (Aqua is slow and simplistic, Marine is a motormouth etc).

I did some actual studying years back, which got the grammar/basic syntax down. For damn sure, I wouldn't have been able to pick it back up from there without knowing the grammar; a decade+ of watching anime prior had never got me even a little bit of actual learning in until I learned grammar. So I'd recommend to start with that if you're N6. Not like I'm actually-good or fluent at it and my reading sucks shit because I mostly have picked it back up to watch chuubas and anime. But I know a lot more than I thought I did in the context of watching Ame (or sometimes Mori) get really confused and realize I'm far above what I used to know, maybe more like Ina's level.

Duolingo is a bit of a meme, but it will help if you're an absolute beginner.

>>197048
How about Genki?

>>197048
no it won't.

Actually live in Japan and passed N1 a few years ago + studied translation at a uni here so I understand about 98%, the only exceptions are when Marine starts talking about old anime and everything that comes out of her mouth are references to something I’ve never seen

>>197048
anon just read tae kim you dont have to play with a bird who spits out garbage.

>>190139
ばか

ニゲル!

I probably understand about 90% of what Okayu is saying, sometimes get a bit lost when she starts making references to Japanese TV and actors. N2 aiming for N1

I did the core 2k and now my strategy is to just to use Imabi for grammar while scouring anime and games for words to make cards out of.

>>190332
Polar Bear Cafe seems almost designed for learners.

What’s a good way to get basic grammar/syntax down, preferably in an interactive way? I’ve heard Duolingo is bad for Japanese but anything where I can practice would be good.

>>197284
Literally the best advice in the whole thread

>>189672
I started japanesed because of vtubers, but I've gotten back into manga reading. Past 3.5k on core6k.

>>189865
Mods actively reject it, same reason as for the /a/ djt.

>>196249
>>197048
>>197119
Do yourself a favor, read the guide.
https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/

>>197889
Why is it bad? It's the same shit but with symbols, shouldn't having kanji mixed in early be something good?

>>194805
Based. Kanji should be wiped out and hiragana and katakana to be used until romaji become the norm

>>189672
I'm studying it and vtubers are unironically helping me with listening practice (I also read the text in the games they play of course).

>>198660
Duoling teaches you japanase phrases, not how to speak japanese

>>196249
>can you actually learn japanese mostly by watching these vids?

No. Maybe you can pick up some words here or there but unless you already speak a lot of Japanese it’s not like you can pick up words from context most of the time.

I would imagine for immersion learning to have any chance of working you would need to start at like preschool level content like Japanese shows for toddlers. Even then it would be hard because a 2-3 year old has much better language learning abilities than you so shows targeted at them still assumes they have knowledge of Japanese.

What's the right way to use anki? The word shows up, you look at it then hit show answer, listen to the reading and meaning, then hit again repeatedly until you know both without hitting show answer? or just hit good/hard and move on?

>>189672
I can't read it for shit but I understand it enough to get the gist of what's happening and what they're saying

>>198243
Tae Kim is certainly better than duolingo but idk about recommending him these days. I think he's a resource we used back in ye olde internet because there were hardly any good resources for Japanese online. I'm a big fan of Wasabi's self-learning guide which has more structure and the grammar reference is easier to use. Wanikani has been my favorite for Kanji although it does cost money past the beginner levels.

>>200268
Anon it's not that hard.
You see the kanji, think of what it means and sounds like, then see the answer. If you got it wrong or didn't know you hit again. If it took you a while to remember you hit hard. If it was fast you hit good or easy.

>>189672
I know enough to understand what's going on. Always have jisho.org open in another tab in case I need to search up a word. I only watch jap streams because they're the only ones going on late at night when I'm studying.

>>196947
damn we're the same

For me, it's Cure Dolly sensei.

>>198976
No. Reading would be hell without kanji

>>198976
You would need a mozart level genius to devise a suitable alternative script for Japanese at this point. And at the level of literacy we're at, at this point in history, there is no fucking chance of getting people on board with learning an entirely new way to read Japanese even if we could find an alternative. Best we can hope for is gradual spelling reform over time which the Japanese government has already been doing for ages by simplifying kanji. Just kana or romaji would be totally anemic. Info density would be fucked, sentences would be enormous, and the homophone problem would actively obscure understanding.

>>203009
It would work if they also implemented spacing and punctuation like in western languages, but it would have to be a very gradual transition. They're never gonna do it anyway, Japan likes their traditional stuff.

>>196249
for best results use it as supplementary listening practice. without actually studying japanese you're not going to know what you're trying to understand and it'll take years longer to reach the same point

>>197310
I am not a paka.

I enjoy them more when I can't understand them

I've been learning off and on for years now. When I do "focus" I'm impressed at what I'm actually able to read but you throw one or two kanji I don't recognize into a sentence and I'm lost.

>>198976
>just make it english bro
Go fuck yourself. You're a fucking retard.

>>197889
if you're looking for something like duolingo, lingodeer would be the goto app i think, it's actually focused on learning languages like japanese, iirc i think it gets you somewhere within the n4 range.

>>203263
The current state of half kanji half kana japanese language is fucked, yeah. Just like the state of this gay board, when the other half of the vtuber threads are still in /jp/.

>>203263
they did that in old NES games, but there are actual problems with the language becoming harder to interpret, one of the reasons japanese has so many puns is because it has a much higher volume of homophones than western languages do, and kanji makes it easily clear what they're trying to mean by it.

>>204136
and japan has tried simplifying their language for foreigners before, and received complaints because they made the language harder to read.

something like WARNING HEAVY RAIN AND WINDS
can become something like "watch out for falling candy that may have a very strong cold"

>>189672
I translate light novels in my free time, or at least I used to before vtubers sucked away all my free time.

>>204545
nigel?

>>203886
t. cringe moonrune enthusiast

I'm learning at a light but steady pace. It makes me happy

>>189672
I speak near fluent Japanese and the only vtuber I watch occasionally is Gura. I even live in Japan so I can easily catch the japanese vtuber streams but they're just not very entertaining. It's all the same.

>>197889
Buy the genki or minna no nihongo textbooks. Study.

>>189672
haha deepL goes brrr

>>196249
No. They're great to prime your ears on listening to the language, but it's more like the top of the food pyramid when it comes to actually studying. Not a good diet for your skill growth, basically. The best thing you can do to learn Japanese is make Japanese friends and practice what you know with them. A lot of Japanese people want to learn english and I'm sure there's a language exchange club on discord or something. Maybe you can bond over your love of vtubers? Anyway yeah, read this guide https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/.. I used to recommend the AJATT method because that's how I learned, but these days I just suggest that link.

>>206062
Yeah that's the point of learning another language, brainlet.

>>189672
I speak a very limited, but growing, amount of Japanese
I don't have as much time to study as I want because college and work

>>199052
That's literally every course, they can't have speech recognition.

>>190275
holy fucking shit im rolling from this, based 偽中国語

i watch vtubers to learn japanese.
i thought i was retarded but after 50 hours it really improved my listening.

I've been learning off and on for a while but I'm retarded. I can comprehend easy stuff like yotsuba

>>207328
I'm worried about listening to too many girls and sounding gay when I start speaking

How much are deepLfags actually missing compared to fluent JP users ?

Vtubers motivated me to do my reps again, every day I feel like I pick up more of what they're saying. Never stop doing your reps, anons!

>>207420
Thats the last of your worries, just say where you learned the lang from if anyone asks lol. Girls dig cute boys anyway

>>207420
youll sound gay anyway

>>207501
Everything. Honestly, if you have been into anime or even games for at least 5 years by now then you have no excuse for not having passed at the very least JLPT N2, and that's being generous.

>>207703
I think N2 is quite a level of commitment above just watching subbed anime for 5 years, people i know who watched anime for that or longer, enter JP and immediately struggle with て form, たら、, conjugation into 受け身、使役 initially. They know a fair amount of words, but absolutely can't piece them together in sentences if there's あげる・もらう , fail at particles etc. N2 isn't hard but the people who just pick up the language to that level with no hard studying for a year+ are very rare (as in i have never heard of someone who did, but i could see it happening).

I could kinda see the anime watchers being decent at listening and minimally at talking with set phrases ?

>>207501
If they are smart in how they use it, pretty much nothing out of written text (some double-negatives might trip it up, but it takes a short google to fix that)
As for spoken real-time content, they are filtered unless they can input it somehow for translation. If they use some kinda automatic sound to text device, they could understand the majority of it again if the chuubas accent doesnt trip it. Main problem is, they will understand a somewhat "soulless" version of it as they wont know if the phrases uses by the person weren't altered from the usual way they should be said (so the individual quirks , the personality, will be lost in it), and some things will make no sense since the AI cannot predict non sequiturs or convey humour fully. IMO it's possible to rely on machine translation completely to get a good grip on wtf is said, but in a hard to phrase way, the "soul" or maybe empathy and feeling of relating to the chuuba, is pretty much lost.

What's the best way to practice speech?

>>210467
speak to japanese people

>>190023
>English subs suck
>I picked up moon
be the change you want to be in this world.

>>210562
That's what I was thinking, so I subbed around 20 minutes of one of Roboco's 3D streams, but frankly, subbing is a pain in the ass and high standards make me not want to skip over unintelligible lines.

>>203009
Japanese is an auditory hell language literally composed of about 5% of all its words being exact homophones with another word.

Game streams are the easiest to understand and learn from. The streamer will mostly be talking about things happening on the screen, you may already be familiar with the game, and the vocabulary and topics are constrained and repetitive when compared to freetalk streams for example.

Whats unironically the best learning roadmap if i only care about understanding vtubers and nothing else

I have been watching Vtuber for three years now and still don't know any lick of japanese, they're just a background noise for my daily task

>>190111
>四ヶ月頃

>>189672
I'm still trying to learn their three fucking alphabets. It's hard since you kinda have to learn all three at once since they're all used at the same time.

>>190404
God tier anime that no one I ever talk to has heard of

ching chong ning nong to you too

>>200268
The right way is to give yourself almost no time at all to figure out the answer. You either know it without needing to think, or you fail. After all, you never have to think very hard to read a normal English word, so why should it be different for Japanese?

>>216437
You can learn hiragana and katakana in 2 days. It's the kanji that will take you years. The kanji learning should come from reading manga.

>>196929
Yeah, what this anon said. I have similar experience regarding picking up Japanese from watching anime with subs. You need to have some kind of base.

>That is all my opinion and I'm entirely self taught, so I could be wrong.
You can't be wrong If you can understand and converse in learned language. It's all individual and simply comes to what is suitable method of learning for you.

>>207510
Same for me. Ironically, it was HoloMyth debuting that pushed me to go back into the WK mines after a full reset and to search out more SRS options for grammar.

Pikamee going back and forth in japanese/english seems great.
I still can't understand a 100% japanese stream of any vtuber however.
Gotta get to N2 first.

>>190111
>>190231
>>190275
>>190286
>>191857
>>192654
>>197310
>>197357
日本語上手!

>>214834
The guides that have already been linked in this thread. You won't be able to understand vtubers until you're pretty advanced in the basics of japanese.

>>217373
ふりがなが面白い笑

>>189672
>ha fuck em japs

>>190231
based

>>207420
Then listen to some guys.

>>217143
>manga
I prefer VN.

>>220501
VN are good too. The only thing that matters is that you're reading.

>>190195
Japan is first world, and they don't speak engl*sh

>>189672
I know some from years of watching subbed anime, for the most part I'm fine even if I don't understand some parts.

I pick up words pretty easily by hearing them and looking up their definitions. Stopped learning Japanese when I realized they were actually just saying the same things we were, just in Japanese. Was worried it'd take away the magic.

Yes, but "knowing Japanese" is a spectrum. I lived there 15 years ago. I've probably regressed to the point where I might be N3, but most casual tuber conversations don't give me trouble. What I miss is all the Japanese pop culture (including net culture) terms and memes that I don't know. Also some tubers with overdone character accents, will trip me up once in a while.

>>222701
Pekora consistently screws me up. Brain's slowly trying to process the first half of a Pekora-speed sentence when a "Peko" clears everything. This is then followed by even faster speech.

>>204136
You're right but your example image is somewhat misleading. Sure きる has a lot of homophones but the way Jisho queries results, it takes the base keyword you searched and spits out results that will have your keyword + something else (ex. きるもの). A better example of a word with too many homophones is こうしょう.

I only have a good enough reason to learn basic japanese and that's just enjoying picking up words I hear. Other than that it'd be about as useful as the time I wasted learning to program.

>>217373
no way that's the kanji for it

>>221303
personally it closes the distance alot, idk about u

大学で勉強したけどまだあまり上手じゃないと思う。ホロライブJP話すのはたぶん半分ぐらい分かれる。

>>214834
>Learn to read kana
>Do Pimsleur, at least the first three levels
>Then move onto a grammar course (Genki or something similar)
>Do an Anki deck or Wanikani every day while doing the grammar course (and forever onward because there's always more to learn
>Then the final Pimsleur courses
And then you should be at the point where you understand what vtubers are talking about. Please remember though that you are still years away from understanding their sentences fluently

>>225142
Also I'm about to get flamed for recommending Pimsleur, but I promise it goes a LONG way in helping you understand the spoken language, which a lot of learner's have a hard time with even after becoming partially fluent in reading.
If you want to understand what vtubers are saying, Pimsleur is a must in my opinion even if you dont learn a lot of vocab from it

Also, forgot to mention that you NEED to immerse in the language while you learn. Spend as much time as you can afford yourself watching unsubbed vtubers ON TOP of your daily lessons. Listen for your vocab and learn to differentiate their words and syllables. I find any tubah that speaks occasional english is really good for this (like Coco or Pikamee) because they will often repeat important words back in english like watching Dora the Explorer or something. It helps.

>>214834
>>225142
Check DJT's guide. TLDR is:
1. Grind Kana (Hiragana/Katakana) and the combination kana until you have them down decently.
2.1. Work through a simple grammar guide with excercises. Tae Kim being one of many that works. It's mostly about teaching you to get a feel for the natural structure of sentences.
2.2 At the same time start to try and read/listen to something real simple. Examples include Yotsubato with the reading packs, NHK News Web Easy, simple VNs, old non-PC games, shows with japanese subtitles.
If that doesn't get you motivated and you don't mind it being a real slog then do it by only listening to your oshi and looking up every single word and line until it clicks.
2.3 You may want to start off one of the premade Anki decks to learn some early kanji but drop it after you've worked through a couple hundred. You want to mine your own decks from contexts you've actually read/listened to for actual learning. Some people might enjoy learning words on their own but a shitton of idiots end up being rep-retards who just grind kanji without any context and learn nothing. (which is why this >>225142 is pretty bad advice imo)

Basically your goals are getting the basic building stones for understanding stuff:
* kana
* sentence structure grammar
* early kanji
* mine your own Anki decks
Then consume media to your hearts content and learn as you go.

>>225628
It's good advice, but you are right that after a while decks should prioritize whatever anon is watching and trying to learn over random vocab

>>217373

this is art lmao

>>224872

that's the kanji for intravaginal ejaculation

>>226933
>spoiler
>furigana as "I'm home"
Ah, so it is an accurate translation after all.

I finished RTK once, and 2/3 of core6k.. 3 years ago
I can understand maybe half of spoken dialogue, but might pick up more context with japanese subs. sometimes I'm impressed I can actually remember an otherwise obscure kanji after so many years. I have not done my reps in forever btw

>>206484
>he best thing you can do to learn Japanese is make Japanese friends and practice what you know with them.
>then recommends ajatt
ask me how I know you don't know japanes

>>195210
cope dude

>>189672
I use them to learn how to listen more, but I only took JLPT N4

Remember the grammar
Please never forget the grammar

Weird and specific question but can someone tell me what the 上 and 下 mean in this context?

>>230329
Part 1 and Part 2. Think side A and B for a disc, or a two volume book series.

>>230398
Ah, okay thank you

>>189672
i don't but i'm going to start next paycheck as I'm well below $1k in my bank account because anime figures

I can read and listen fairly well but my own production is complete trash-tier. Spent a lot of time watching JP streamers before Vtubers were even a real thing so that was a lot of listening practice.

Learning a language is really satisfying and having a productive long-term project like that helped me mentally too, definitely one of the better decisions I've made. Learning new words is still fun for me even after a pretty long time at it.

>tfw N2
>tfw jobs dont care if you know japanese
>bitches dont care if you know japanese
>only use my knowledge to watch vtubers and read visual novels

Does anyone else regret learning this dick sucking language

>>233099
Your fault for expecting anything than self-gratification out of it. You're also clearly talking to the wrong bitches

>>233099
If you want your Japanese to pay back you're going to have to move to Japan.

>>233099
This is exactly why I'll never do reps. I love some japtubers but no way I'm using my free time to learn jp just to understand them and nothing else.

learning jap just so i don't have to depend on translators to enjoy porn games.

>>233310
Just view it as an investment. You take a few years now to learn it and have the skill to use it for the rest of your life. If you keep at it that is. Still, you get several decades of payoff.

>>189672
Nobody, this board is EOP central.

>>204545
Why do I have the feeling you are that Suseifag who translates Her Highness is Angry

>>233503
Not me

I'm a newshitter that lost interest in JP tubers and my interest in learning japanese is waning too. It's a shame because I'm a long term weeb and learning jap would be no bad thing long term but I'm too massive a faggot

>>190332

Kaguya-sama helped me a lot.

>>192454

I'm kinda around there too. Need to get better at reading as well.

>>196249

It's a great help. Perhaps moreso than anime, since they don't tend to talk slowly and it's more like actual speech you'll hear, because they slur and don't enunciate as hard.

>>233310
That’s fair. I put off learning Japanese for a long time because I thought I’d never get any use out of it. I still don’t expect to get any use out of it but I enjoy it a lot as a (occasionally insanely frustrating) hobby pretty much. I waste so many hours playing vidya I thought may as well waste hours doing something that might actually be productive.

>>189672
Why would I want to understand what women are saying?

>>239728
By use I mean use for it outside of enjoying Japanese media without translations. I’m getting a lot of mileage out of it this way even without fully understanding everything

Alright you anons have been pretty good
>>225628 like this anon bro.

I want to get to a basic or intermidiate learning of Japanese within 6 months. I have a budget of 100 if needed. Give me your suggestions on what I should do. Like this anon. I'm looking for something I can do while cleaning and stuff as well. Hope to learn before my hype ends.

>You forget one of the last gift you got from your parent was rosette stone.

>>240709
>I have a budget of 100 if needed
If you're going for books
Genki I -> Genki II -> Tobira -> Kanzen N2 -> Kanzen N1
Tobira should be enough for intermediate.

>>189672
>start learning Japanese because people who localize games and manga love censoring shit
>Sony moves to the bug state and just starts doing it themselves
Wasted my time.

>>189672
If I had just learned it when I was a weeb teenager, I could have been reading porn VNs easily by now

>>233503
fuck you nigga i know french

>>233099
i did it for the porn, so as a coomer, not really.

>>233099
>he didn't pick up Nipponese solely for porn and anime/manga
hHAHAHAHAH

>started learning NIHONGO in early 2010s for vidya
>Japanese gamers back then used plenty of Kanji so it was rough

>2021
>Japanese gamers 90% of the time just use hiragana/katakana and even fucking romanji

It has literally never been easier to learn it thanks to their degradation of their language in online spaces.

>>244324
Very coomfy, now.

>>244324
Protip: stop playing games for kids

>>244705
Japanese adults don't play video games. Once you turn 30 you kill yourself if you don't own a house.

>starting learning
>got like 1 year in
>realized im never going to actually use it, english teaching is a scam and everything I want gets translated near instantly anyways
>give up and watch subs
I really dont get the hype wasting several thousands of hours on an obscure sub 300 million native speakers only spoken halfway across the world from me.

>>244892
>learn French
>nobody but canadian businesses care
>hate most french media

>>229651
>japanes
Ask me how I know you don't know English. All AJATT requires is that you learn Kanji through heisig and actually become literate. You can do that concurrently while speaking with Japanese people, retardchama.

>>189672
The Japanese don't know Japanese either.
>50 fucking percent Kanji illiteracy rate in youths and elderly

>>244892
I know it's literally a waste but the waifus....

>>244892
>learn Finnish
>drink beer with Finnish neighbour every sunday
>post sprudo memes on Finnish imageboard.
>life is great

>>189672
Why would I learn when literally everything is translated for me by spergs?

>>245151
There are so many great indies who are fun and produce a lot of stuff.
plus you can groom them more efficiently in japanese

>>245151
You shouldn't, ignorance is bliss, keep being spoonfed handpicked clips by people with an agenda.

>>245286
>agenda
What's the agenda? Pekora embarrassing herself?

>>245061
Source? 50% illiteracy can mean anything depending on how you define illiterate, youth and elderly. I suspect a lot of Japanese can’t write a lot of Kanji anymore but recognition should probably be better than before.

>>190332
YKK
Not many episodes and top notch atmosphere, manga is great too

>>240709
>I have a budget of 100 if needed.
Create a Japanese BookLive account and test read some shounen manga that seem interesting. If you like them and they have furigana, buy them. I recommend Jashin-chan. Raw manga and obscure VNs that you can't find on Nyaa is pretty much the only thing you need to pay for. There are also several Russian torrent forums with a surprising amount of raw Japanese media.

>>190332
I'm watching Non Non Biyori right now and strongly recommend it.

>>245025
>All AJATT requires is that you learn Kanji through heisig and actually become literate
>you can do that concurrently while speaking with japanese people
you clearly don't know what ajatt is

>>244881
Nobody owns a house at 30 in Japan unless they inherited it or are the 1%.

>>245614
japan's official literacy rate is 99%, their source is basically dude trust me though, since literacy in japan is decided by whether or not you got a highschool education rather than if you know how to read and write.

last time nationwide literacy test in japan was during the american occupation when they were deciding whether or not they should have japan abolish kanji

>>246949
>whether or not they should have japan abolish kanji
what went wrong?

>>246949
>whether or not they should have japan abolish kanji
FUCK why didn't it happen?

>>246966
>>247091
It turns out that if you remove the kanjis and write it in kana it becomes unreadable gibberish.
Kinda of like spoken japanese, except that people will say things you can expect. You don't suddenly give out a speech about the deeper truths of life when people don't expect it.

>>246949
>literacy in japan is decided by whether or not you got a highschool education rather than if you know how to read and write
Call me naive, but that seems a good enough indication. I assume the only exceptions would be people with dyslexia.

>>246627
It's literally just immersion + RTK. That's it. Khatz himself would tell you it's just about reading a lot (mining 10k sentences) and immersing yourself as much as possible, and that absolutely includes talking to Japanese people. He himself sought out Japanese friends while he was in university. It's all there in his blogs, but he fucked his site up trying to sell people shit and even contradicted himself by declaring sentence mining dead so who even knows what AJATT is anymore, hence why I no longer recommend it. Not sure why you're so hung-up on that. Why don't you clarify AJATT is.

>>247091
From what I remember this was less of a serious proposal all parties were considering and more the USA asking if they really needed this shit and Japanese officials having to explain that yes, in fact, their writing system can't just cleanly remove thousands of characters. That being said, a lot of bizarre historical spellings and horribly complicated kanji were removed after WW2.

>>244324

>no kanji
>easier

i call bullshit that you have started learning japanese years ago and you still haven't passed the phase "hiragana is easier"

>>246966
>>247091
american education delegation wanted to switch japan to romaji.
the toyo kanji list was formed which restricted japanese down to 1850 kanji, with the intention of eventually phasing them all out.

there was a lot of japanese pushback against the idea since you could call their relationship with kanji something of a frustrating love.

in 1948 the held a literacy test that was likely skewed in favor of inflating literacy rates to prove everyone in japan already knew how to read kanji so it wasn't a problem, and after america left, they pushed back against the restriction of toyo kanji by slowly adding pre-war kanji back into the lexicon forming the modern joyo kanji list

The smell of this thread holy shit

>>247135
> + RTK
debatable
>and that absolutely includes talking to Japanese people
no
>Why don't you clarify AJATT is.
nice self own esl

>>247197
two nukes werent enough

>>247197
also, similarly around this time, mao wanted to reform chinese by replacing hanzi with pinyin, but this also obviously failed.

>>247114
I’m not even good at nip yet but I already prefer having kanji over hiragana soup with spaces. Too many homophones that make make it hard to decipher meaning.

>>247161
It doesn’t sound like he was saying no kanji is easier just that it seems like a waste learning it since as most nips don’t use it anyway according to him.

still doing my kanji reps everyday for the past few years

>>247091

>>247393
>actively improving yourself instead of just learning the bare minimum of kanji that you see online
what's it like to have drive?

Why learn Japanese when the Nipponese already know how to spreak AMERICAN?

>>247353
I think you would need some kind of Hangul style reform in order to preserve density and eliminate ambiguity with homophones. But getting the whole japanese population to switch over would be as likely as getting the USA to switch to the Desseret alphabet.

>>247393
but why?

>>247393
The fuck is a triple 鹿

>>247197
What about getting them to pronounce just one extra consonant.
That could remove a significant amount of homophones already.

>>247197
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Americans were based.

>>247650
thank god for vocaloid

>>247567
The best way to keep or get motivation is to have the desire to read something. For me right now it's Log Horizon and it's a whole step above Konosuba for example. Mamare really doesn't hold back.

>Nipponese NSFW artists that I follow barely use Kanji
What's up with that? Are they just retards who are good at drawing porn?

>>247939
>Log Horizon
>aka like SAO but not SAO

>>247970
Give examples, what are they saying? You don't need kanjis to say you're going to the conbini.

>>246966
>>247091
Because gatekeeping is good.

>>247970
literally every pr0n doujin that I read has a bunch of kanji character

>>197048
if you're a beginner then it's a better idea to watch namasensei

>>248408
you need to know this though.

>>252122
Thanks, now I feel motivated to commit a crime.

>>252122
That's pretty much what watching hololive with subs is like.
Friends don't let friends watch subs.

>>252122
>と
Shouldn't it be に?

>>248530
What's so good about it in this context? In what way does less people knowing Japanese benefit you aside from an excuse to jerk off over how elietist you are?

>>189672
I know Japanese. Ask me anything.

>>190286
> was able to read that without thinking about it
Holy fuck Wani Kani actually works.

>>194805
>N1
>still can't read kanji for shit
I think it's time for a diploma or GTFO.

>>252912
>>252818
Why is it と and not に

>>247393
I love the fact that kanji is such a mess Japanese writers unironically have to show the readings of some kanji next to (furigana). Imagine having writing system that requires supplementary reading aid

>>252837
Because that's one of the things that kept garbage westerners from affecting Japan from inside.
Unfortunately the internet has made it much easier to learn.

What even is the bump limit for this board?

>>253044
>that moment when every Japanese placename sign is required to have both kanji and its reading below it.
sasuga japanese

>>253044
Honestly, I actually love it from a language standpoint.
I am literally obsessed with learning the Japanese language for the past year, and have been studying hard because I want to TL.
it probably won't pay well, but I'm at least passionate about it, and shit like furigana and the other million joke tier things about the language fascinate me.

>>253154
I don't know but we should make another thread after this one

>>252818
>>252984
I think that と is acting as a subject marker, like it would in a と言う quotation structure.
I never really questioned how that made sense, it just works. My favorite grammar book mentions "implicit lists" but I'm not sure how I can fit that to make sense.

>>253340
And call it DJT? The mods can't prevent it, it's going to happen whether they like it or not.

>>253154
It’s 300 btw

>>252122
what are the two kanji before shasei?

>>253581
膣内, how can you read 射精 but not 内?

>>253691
i know 内 means inside
but it's my first time seeing 膣 instead of manko

which holo is the most EOP friendly?
not counting EN

>>254527
JP branch would be coco

>>254527
Coco, Haachama, and Pikamee

>>247302
Are you pretending to be retarded?
>>253044
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/index.html

>>189672
the drive to learn is there but every online and irl class gets cancelled because theres not enough interest. its been 8 years and still trying. duolingo isnt enough.

>>255288
>duolingo
at least use lingodeer

>>255288
Pick up Genki. Most classes teach right out of that book anyway

>Genki
>A flashcard system of your choice (most people use the premade Anki decks)
>Pimsleur torrent
>A hefty amount of immersion either through reading or unsubbed vtubers

The keys to success in my experience.

>>255340
guessing lingodeer is at least more useful than anything else?

>>255360
it's like duolingo but with a focus on learning languages like japanese, it includes grammar explanations before lessons and whatnot.

>>255360
Literally anything is better than duolingo. It's historically bad.

I was Pimsleur only for about three months and still came out better than anybody using Duolingo.

>>255411
>>255413
Gotcha, ill note down the recommends and give them a try :) here goes nothing!

Lingodeer and Bunpro are cool.

>>255354
Need the workbook?

>>255442
Depends on what you personally look for. To me, it encouraged more writing out kana than I'm willing to do, so I rarely ever ended up using it

>>252122
kek

>>255437
Remember that no matter how you go about it, use mnemonics to help you remember vocab and Kana. It's the only way I personally could and I didn't even know such a strategy existed until a month into learning

>>253168
maybe that's for children so they can use the trains
>>253044
>I love the fact that english writing is such a mess english dictionaries unironically have to show the pronunciation of all words next to them. Imagine having writing system that requires supplementary reading aid
this is how stupid you sound

>>255257
>Are you pretending to be retarded?
i'll take that as ur concession

>>254527
The ones who speak JP slowly like Aqua or the ones who intersperse english like Coco and Hachaama.
Pekora isn't too bad either since she has that verbal peko-tic acting as punctuation.

i have heard that people are able to read without doing rtk which is weird i dont know how thats possible

>>253381
am i retarded or wouldn't it just mean "with"

anyone who says they learned Japanese w.o studying abroad in japan is lying. even that autist Matt sounds retarded when he’s not reading a script and he’s been self studying for a decade

>>258425
Matt is 100% a snake oil salesman. He's all about consuming media, but you have to actually speak and write the language to get the full picture. It's like saying you're a good driver if you've only ever watched people drive.

>>255360
Duolingo has a fucking leaderboard system, that's all you need to know to figure out it's a huge joke. Lingodeer is a decent alternative, but if you've got the cash, Human Japanese is better. Truthfully to get good at Japanese you need to look at multiple resources. Wani Kani and Bunpro are other options, but they have a fee. Pimsleur is also damn good at getting you comfortable with listening and to some degree speaking.

>>253381
The reason I think it's grammatically incorrect, is that if you added する at the end it would make no sense.

>>258425
Don't use my elf for shitposting.

I don't speak a single word of Jap and still watch jp Hololive an insane amount and I don't give a fuck.

>>252984
That's because JS is a futa and you and she stick your dicks in some whore's pus and ejaculate simultaneausly.

>>257276
Your reading comprehension needs work.
>>258492
>He's all about consuming media, but you have to actually speak and write the language to get the full picture.
Exactly. You'll see faster progress if you start using the language as soon as possible. Passive immersion will not magically make you fluent.

>>259515
>Passive immersion will not magically make you fluent.
amazing, you're retarded through and through

>>257237
I wasn't talking about dictionaries, but signs, manga, light novels and games. they all use furigana.

>>259577
kek, have a final (You), but I thought of another analogy. Passive immersion is like studying music theory without touching an instrument. It wouldn't necessarily hurt, but you're not going to be improvising with a band.
>>258561
Besides Anki, what is the point of using any other app? Most of these subscription based sites have already had their databases mined and turned into decks anyway. I highly recommend this deck from iKnow: https://archive.org/details/Core10KPicsAud
If you're going to pay money, you're better off paying for a tutor, not an app.

>>260980
>passive immersion is like studying music theory without touching an instrument
og is this you? can't imagine anyone else being this stupid
>>260778
you were talking about the writing system, and even you understand how retarded you sound and are now moving the goalpost. I would suggest going back to plebbit you would be in better company

>>260778
A dictionary is a logical place for a pronunciation phonetic. We do that in English. Every other example is something that may have to consider kids trying to read it who obviously aren't done studying kanji yet. Material aimed at adults will very rarely include furigana except for rarely used characters. Adults really can read Japanese just fine, it is not a dysfunctional script. You just need to fucking practice.

>>233099
You need N1 to be qualified for anything. If you're near a City there's likely to be some jobs that require Japanese. Also as things become more remote (rapidly now due to COVID) knowing a foreign language can only help you.

My friend's beating himself up because he's desperate for a job and a few of them required Japanese or Chinese.

For anki, if I do a custom study through "review ahead" does it change the due dates of the cards I review? Doing core2k and want to use my spare time for extra practice without actually changing the due dates.

Only just started again after doing a 3 month stint with Genki a few years ago. I think I tried to be too comprehensive and thus learned too slowly, so trying it the /djt/ way now.

>>245236
This. 10-30 viewer streams are the best.

>>260980
The Wani Kani deck is really good as well. I just prefer how WK works by default (specifically the Flaming Durtles app).

>>263503
if you really want to try the /djt/ way you should spend your extra time reading or listening to real stuff rather than spending excess time in anki.

Quit while you can. It's not worth it.
(I'm probably about halfway into fluency now).

>>189672
I understand a bit and already dominate the two kanas has helped. But I'll rather die than to learn to write kanji, fuck that self-flagelation shit

>>265106
ネバーガナーメイクイト

>>265106
What? Learning proper stroke order is fun once you get it down. Also almost all text has Kanji in it.

>>265993
Yeah I enjoy writing kanji, very zen. If I was a school kid I'd probably hate it but since it's self directed I can just do it when I feel like at my own pace. It's nice to see your progression on a character from a bunch of vague scribbles to something that really looks quite a bit like the typed character.

>>265106
出来ない

>>247567

Not him, but I actually have been following a strategy of "just learning the Kanji that you see online". But the thing is, this can actually be effective if you are constantly immersing yourself in Kanji by reading Japanese. Read manga in Japanese, or watch Japanese anime with Japanese subtitles. When you come across a word you don't know (and isn't incredibly rare), you add it to your Anki.

You'll want to use the application Yomi-chan to add to anki, since you can check the words you look up for their "innocent corpus" score. Basically, how many times do they show up in a corpus of 5000 Japanese texts. Anything over 10000 should be automatically added. Anything between 1000 and 9999 should be added if you see it multiple times, or you expect to see it multiple times in the content you are immersing yourself in.

>>203763
that's a dakuten you nerd

>>257489
I don't even think I know what rtk is

>>257489
i never did rtk, i found the idea of learning the kanji in isolation was autistic and a waste of time. i just learn kanji the way natives do through exposure to new vocabulary. you see the same kanji in enough words you gain an intuitive understanding of its meaning and general readings.

>>273677
But can you recognize kanjis like 財 or 敗 in new contexts? Can you even tell them apart?
RTK is pure autism, but some kanji isolation practice is still beneficial to clear things up after you know more than 4k words.
Otherwise you'll be failing on the 試剣.

>>276970
i clear things up by hitting again in anki when i get a word wrong.

you're going to have to go through a phase of memorizing differences in kanji, and i'd prefer to do it while i'm learning japanese. some people are like "i just spend the last 9 months doing RTK, and now in my first japanese class, i was able to recognize 待 the difference between 持 slightly faster than my classmates

So just wanna make sure, genki for Hirgana and so forth then Anki?

>>277017
> i was able to recognize 待 the difference between 持 slightly faster than my classmates
But not 剣 from 験, apparently. Most people in japanese class are hopeless, at least you're probably going to make it.

>>277066
If you're American. Otherwise skip Genki, use Tae Kim and then Anki.

>>254527
Okayu speaks slowly and clearly and is very easy to understand imo.

>>252122

おまえらスパチャとかすんの

>>253168
Also gotta love how the romaji version isn't even a good transcription. At least in Fukuoka they wrote airport as "kuko" which confused me for a moment.

>>254527
Korone is probably pretty good since half her schtick is just cute sounds. Nene's dorkiness also probably transcends language similarly.

>>260980
>is like studying music theory without touching an instrument. It wouldn't necessarily hurt, but you're not going to be improvising with a band.

being able to fluently comprehend japanese but not being able to speak it well is still very useful, unlike your analogy
the argument is not that input will solve everything, it's that it's faster overall if you achieve fluent comprehension before you work on speaking

I'm N3, going for N2 right now. I use Holostars to practice my listening, comprehension and learning slang/more natural Japanese.

>>277339
it's standard for japanese signs to use traditional hepburn romanization with dropped macrons

so AA, EE, II, UU, OO, and OU become A, E, I, U, O, and O

>>257489
I started with rtk and dropped it for core 2k. I don't see why I should read an entire book about the meaning of isolated Kanji and the made up meanings of radicals, only to have to read another book to actually learn how to read, when I could learn the meaning and reading at once and go to consume media with minimal investment.

>>276970
I can and I only went so far with rtk. Currently I'm mining new kanji vocab while reading. If I come across a kanji I want to learn, I just add other words that use the same kanji to get the meaning down. So when I see 財布 and want to learn it I also add 財産, 財団, 財界, 財力 and 家財. Or maybe just a few of them. They aren't really important words, but they help getting a grasp on the kanji you want to learn since there might not be a good equivalent word in meaning. It's also better to not learn through translation but know the meaning instinctively.

>>277409
Yeah, and I hate when people do that. Same with names in subtitles or scanlations. I don't wanna flip a coin in my head whenever I can't be sure.

>>189672

I know a bit, enough to understand maybe 50% of what's said. I'm still kinda dependant on subtitles tho. That said, I can watch live streams and roughly understand what's going on.

>>217373

The ultimate trash taste insult :)

>>217373

I didn't know tadaima even had kanji. Seems weird, is it ateji?

>>277415
When you're starting out, the first few chapters of RTK are good at training you to break kanji down into radicals. It's much easier to remember a kanji if you only have to remember the parts that it's made of instead of every single stroke. You'll also have substantially less trouble telling apart similar-looking kanji.

The rest of the book is useless though. It's pretty much just a list of the mnemonics that worked for Heisig. Later chapters don't even give you a story to remember the kanji, they just list the radicals and tell you to come up with your own mnemonics to remember them, which is what you should've been doing in the first place.

The book is good for learning how to remember the kanji, but it's terrible for actually learning the kanji.

>>277970
you're probably fucking around but just in case you're not, go look up 膣内射精

>>278031
imo everyone should do maybe the first 100 or 200 kanji so they know how kanji are formed and written, but the rest is unnecessary
however if you are intent on achieving fluent handwriting i found rtk to be the perfect way to quickly gain the ability to write all the jouyou kanji from memory

>>278031
breaking kanji down into smaller parts is pretty much just kanji 101 stuff, any japanese course will go over it

>>277478
where do you look up the words with the kanji and how do you decide which ones to add?

>>278356

the virgin radicals vs the chad "just learn the words bro"

>>278457
not him but use yomichan + anki integration. if a word is very common in what i'm reading, i won't add it in my deck because i'm going to encounter it 203950 times from said text anyway. add words that you think are useful but maybe hard to remember. for instance 凸凹 and 凹凸 or 左右 and 右左. titles in military works are candidates as well. a not so common word is something like 司法解剖 but is still worth learning if you want to read detective or mystery novels. i add all proverbs because i want to learn them.

>>278457
Currently I'm reading the web novel of Log Horizon, so looking up words is easy with a reading aid add-on. Otherwise I look them up by radicals on jisho, either the web version or app version. If I want to add them to my anki deck, I just send them from the jisho app.
As to which I add, I just choose a few that seem fitting. If you use words with kanji that you already know, you have the obvious advantage of having some reference and base your understanding on that half of the new word. If both kanji are new, you learn more kanji instead.

>>278356
radicals don't always make sense, in fact they only do in the minority of kanji