/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>15288286
Idols.
Idols are the best

>>15288286
Otaku paypig appeal

>>15288286
Love

box pushing, EOPs

There isn't a 150 of them
Nijisanji doesn't need the west because domestically they are bigger in Japan than Hololive (might've changed in the past year)

>>15288286
>Is it clippers?
yes and the azur lane collab

Same reason why ABC 123 shapes and colors videos have 45 million views and more

>>15288286
clippers and more early momentum.
also it does help that hololive character designs are a bit more distinct than niji's, so it's easier for people outside of the vtuber scene to recognize them. lots of people look at niji talents in fanart and think they are just some random schoolgirl from any slice of life anime.

miko said the n word then gura debuted like one week after that

RNG

>>15288665
This, though Niji seems to have caught on this past year and is making more distinct character designs.

Clippers and algorithm luck
Those always matter more than talent
Not even saying Hololive is bad, because it's not, just that it wouldn't matter if they weren't

>>15288286
Clippers, luck, and most of all Unity. If someone watched one Holo than their likely to eventually watch the others because of how frequently they interact not just between gens but also between the different branches. Nijisanji groups feel complete separate from each other half the time and the branches barely interact with one another so theirs less chance for one Nijiliver's audience to spread into the others and give them a boost.

nijien first few batch is actually bad

>>15288286
Hololive have shill King Fubuki and the Western Dragon Coco.

Nijisanji never had a viral moment blow up for a foreign audience; they never had a scatman, bandaid, nigga, etc moment that exposed them to a western audience like Hololive did.

Obviously there is also the lack of clips, which as much as people rag on clip niggers they are the ones who helped Hololive blow up

>>15288842
I wouldn't say they were bad but they definitely missed the hype train and played things way too safe. They really needed a standout breakout hit.

Hate clippers all you want but they're both the reason why most of you are here and the reason why hololive is as big as it is. Honestly Cover should be paying these people.

>>15288927
I'm one of them, and I regret it.
The best Niji had back in the day was some guy named rollcakeboy (or something like that). He clipped a ton of niji before Hololive had any English clips.

>>15289130
Why'd he quit?

>>15288286
In short, they swallow their pride and cater to simps while also suppressing the desire to show interest in men on stream. They make the viewer feel that only they and other fans of that holomem matter. This is why Matsuri and Towa get hate and it's also why ENs like Ina and Ame don't interact with guys.

If being more successful means you can't escape ENshit, I think I'll take unsuccessful.

>>15289160
I didn't even know he quit. I didn't really watch his videos. Youtube started recommending his videos to me after I watched some niji kirinukis, so that's really the only reason I know about his channel.

>>15289191
None of them see it that way and you know it, you sad, bitter little goblin. hololive especially wants to engage with their English-speaking audience because that's a gigantic market that other vtuber companies have bizarrely ignored. It's not "EOP shit", you fucking idiot, it's good business sense.

>>15289160
His oshi is Roa, she got involved in some drama and disappeared for over a year.

>>15289291
You have to admit Nijisanji JP doesn't seem to want much to do with the other branches. They are a very loose knit organization and there's zero push for the older Nijis to even speak to the KR, ID, or EN branch. Hololive, otoh, makes sure there's cross branch interaction soon after the collab bans end.
It's always Kanae or Suha(now also Oliver and Lain) that reach out to collab to the ID or EN girls while 80% of the old Nijis like Kanda or Deron have never introduced themselves to most kouhai, including the ones fluent in Japanese. I'd love to hear Elira, Petra, or Reimu talk with their JP senpai but it seems like there's no interest.

>>15288286
I think a big reason, other than the usual stated ones of clips and momentum, is the fact that there were some people in Hololive like Korone and Miko that were happy to pander or make overseas audience feel welcome. There really wasn't anyone like that in Nijisanji and thus Hololive ended up getting a majority of the English speaking market.

>>15288286
Hololive is just like my animes. Niji is just like twitch cancer.

>>15289490
I do admit that and it's fucking stupid. I guess they're content to sit in their stagnant little pools and interact only with the few hundred veterans that have never left, but that's a recipe for graduation.

Like Elu for example. How the fuck is Elu still around? She's wallowed in obscurity for almost as long as Ironmouse has been around. I guess I admire her dedication but still.

>>15288286
Some of Nijisanji's most iconic talent quit plus a lot of bad luck and stagnation. I enjoyed Niji's peak period a lot and I'm a little sad at the state its in.

A few clips that went viral in the west. That's pretty much it.

>>15288286
Nijisanji focused on zatsudans and still does. These are intellectually stimulating streams that require a mastery of the Japanese language.
Meanwhile hololive pondered to the lowest common denominators of coomers and eops with things like gaming streams.

Basically twitchfags made hololive big. You can still see it, many holofags expect every streamer to be a game streamer.
They lack the intelligence to fully appreciate intelligent zatsudans like those by nijisanji streamers.

>>15289777
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand NIJISANJI.

>>15288286
I think the dodgeball offpako incident really made a huge stinker on their reputation. What's worse was it's their own hardcore fans who made it a big deal and not just tourists.

>>15288286
FBk meming at the right time. You just have to look at the past month to see how her stats can explode when she finds the right formula, and back in 2018 2019, she was always looking for the right formula.

>>15288286
way too many talents. Management isn't control freaks, content is way too talk show like and not good for EOPs nor anyone whose Japanese isn't N2 or something

>>15289946
Does each individual Niji talent have their own manager like hololive does? With almost two hundred people I can't imagine that's practical, or even financially worthwhile given how dead-in-the-water some of them are.

>>15289249
Anyway, I was watching Hololive for a very long time, way before the foreign boom and several events stand out to me. I'll just list them here. I don't know if they're the reason that Hololive has blown up more than Niji for the foreign audience, the reader can decide that for himself.
>Miko saying nigga
>A well managed discord server
>Azurlane
>Chinks
>Several prominent moments clipped and translated
>Coco
The discord server was the bond between a lot of different groups: there were chinks who would eventually go on to create the "Hololive moments" youtube channel, autists who translated clips of their oshi (which I think motivated more people to translate), and a general non-hostile environment for the newbies trickling in. The impression I got from the Niji discord back then was that it was less welcoming. I don't really remember the details as to why I got that impression so take that with a grain of salt.
I think these got the ball rolling, with several Hololivers capitalizing and making short content like scatman. This would snowball thanks to the youtube algorithm.
This invites more clippers, whether for monetization and/or fame, to choose to translate Hololive over Niji as it would get more views, thus bringing more English viewers to Hololive instead.
Niji tried to counter this by recruiting english clippers for an English clip channel, but it was too late at that point imo.

>>15290030
Not even Hololive has 1 manager per talents. Whilst I'm not sure who exactly shares managers with who we do know that some do and seems safe to assume others do as well.

>>15289160
I don't think he quit, I think he was part of the other notable Nijisan clippers who ended up moving to the Nijisan English official channel to do official clips. But the problem is that channel has now turned entirely into one for the EN branch so having a bunch of translators is useless, which is why it seems like NekoMikuro or whatever that guy's name is is pretty much the main guy running it now.

>>15290114
The first five EN girls had four managers between them, so I'm not sure who doubled up but that's a pretty light workload.

In addition to stuff already posted, it might have something to do with their names.

>>15290237
What do you mean by that? Plenty of Niji's do that weird English/Japanese fusion thing, i.e. Sakamata Chloe.

>>15290237
Yeah, all HoloJP except for Roboco don't have kanji in their first names. They also always use their first name when talking about each other, no Japanese things with refering by last name or nicknames that aren't a derivative from their name.
>>15290286
Chloe is from Hololive. Nijis, EN aside, either do full western/fantasy name or full Japanese.

>>15289603
Big fish in the small pond. Look at how shook the JPs in Hololive were when EN debuted and they realized that Gura hit 1 mill in 40 days while most were under 500K at the time. They quickly learned that if you want to grow appeal to a larger audience. Nijisanji is defintitely oreinted towards niche content and very Japanese oriented at that. Notice how almost every EN hire is Asian and speaks multiple languages to some extent. They'd never hire an EOP like Gura because they don't think they can garner enough new English only viewers tat aren't already Niji fans.

>>15290215
EN was new territory and an exception. Pretty sure Council is only managed by 1 or 2 people.

>>15290615
Who the fuck is Deron? Is he black?
Gundou? Is that a new type of Gundam?
Yeah, it's interesting that they go by surnames like it's real life. As another anon said, the plain school uniform style doesn't work when you want someone to stand out. I think that was Rikka's idea.

>>15288665
They have a pretty wide range of designs, even non-humanoids (Debi and Shiba). It's not just Rin, Deron and Mito.

>>15288286
Because Hololive is better. Simple as.

>>15288286
Chinese clippers. I wish I was kidding.

>>15288449
fpbp

>>15288286
It’s all about scarcity in my opinion. at first i thought that having less talents would mean that there would be more their managers could do for them or the talents themselves would be better, but that’s clearly not the case. just the fact that hololive has less talents than nijisanji has pushed it ahead because it’s much easier to get invested in the company as a whole when it’s not over 100 members large. in short, quality of vtuber means nothing. when a vtuber is one of the hoards of /wvt/ 2views, they have no appeal, but when they are distinguished by scarcity, they gain an audience

>>15288694
>like one week
closer to two years

>>15290286
>>15290615
No, I mean the names "Hololive" and "Nijisanji".

>>15289091
IMAGINE IF THEY DEBUTED THE MALES FIRST

>>15288286
hololive panders to the soulless lovelive fans
nijisanji doesnt
luckily they are vtubers or we would have cum dripping hands of creeps touching the girls, stabs, kidnap attempts and other shit like in the old akb48 days

>>15288286
Hololive had the Azur Lane collab and chinese shilled the shit out of them, then Miko said nigga and americans shilled the shit out of them

I don't know what the problem with Niji is, but I never managed to get even remotely interested in their vtubers. The only one I came close on was Pomu a while back.

Being the actual first to capitalize on the EN market, while Anycolor was still being hesitant about the idea and still thinking pajeets would pass for being "EN".

Also the various dramas Hololive had, as bad as they were, actually further helped in pushing Hololive further to the public eye.

I think Niji actually had some fairly viral clips, but they were 90% Lulu. Now that their former EOP magnet is gone (though there is a very miniscule chance she could be Sasaki'd), Anycolor now relies on NijiEN for promoting themselves to the West.

>>15288449
basado
idolchads can't stop winning

>>15290710
They have hired EOPs. Do your reps.

>ITT desprate nijjers using 'muh luck' as an excuse
ah yes, the final cope.

>>15288286
I think having gens and not a constant roll out helps. People find one chuuba they like, watch them a ton, and are introduce to their gen mates because gen mates are more likely to collab, then might start watching those chuubas as well, get introduced to other gens through other collabs, and it just keeps going. Its like a tree.

>>15289834
I keep hearing this rrat but never any proof or links.
t. holofag

>>15303963
Who? Every Niji seems to be at least partiallyfluent in a second or third language, including Finana, Selen, and Pomu. Meanwhile Hololive hired a non-streamer wigger that can barely say konnichiwa and meme Shark that has anime level Japanese. Ame also is an EOP while Council has more JP ability, only Baelz is fluent enough to speak normally with her senpai. Niji seems to be trying to find a niches even within their branches rather than gloabal appeal.

>>15288286
They never show up in my recommendations. Maybe the algorithm just hates them. I'll get random indies and small, literal who corporation live streams, I'll get twitch indie clips, even the occasional random Chinese stream site clips.

>>15290060
Seems legit, though I'd list Korone together with Coco for EOP pandering

Coco did a lot of work in making herself popular to the west too by speaking english so people were easily drawn in by her. Macchia Hana was the most popular vtuber at a point but she went all menhera and crashed her popularity because she couldnt take it. In comparison Coco not only embraced EOP but managed to introduce Hololive members with unique skits with Asacoco too.

Hololive sounds cool in any language, Nijisanji sound like a brand of cup ramen outside japan

A few things, one being idol aesthetics, making a lot of them harmless and family friendly, which means they have a wider appeal.
The second is designs, they're way more distinct, you can recognize everyone by their silhouette.
There is less of them, so they're easier to clip and stay in touch with what is going on, especially since you can completely ignore all the males.
Most importantly, Hololive is a bubble. They're self-contained, so from one girl you'll eventually branch out and get to know at least most of the other girls. since it's self-contained and relatively small it's like a persistent universe were the web of relationships is always changing and shifting.

They pandered to the west audience first. This is the only place that gives a fuck about the idol angle.

>>15290215
Cover was justifiably worried about tard wrangling their first ever gaijin girls at the time. Rightfully so, too, just look at how Coco turned out.

>>15288286
Hako-oshi culture. It's by far their strongest asset. The point the hako-oshi culture really became powerful and all eyes in the vtuber scene turned to Hololive was January/February 2020 with the combination of Asacoco, Holofes, and pretty much all the girls getting into ARK together.

THE BOX isn't a meme, is real, you build a solid fanbase including all members as family, you build relationships, histories, a complete network

No matter who is your favorite you can recognize all the other members, THAT'S POWERFUL, only big franchises can do that

Nijisanji's problem is the fragmentation, they have sub groups, factions but 0 networking

Metaphorically speaking

Hololive is a continent
Nijisanji is An archipelago

Sometimes I wonder if the anons that bring up design are just choosing to ignore the Nijisanji members with unique designs and silhouettes? Yeah they have JKs but that's only a handful.

>>15308712
it's just the nice way of saying
>i love the brand, numbers and sense of superiority

>>15288449
Unironically this.

Nijisanji initially went 'Here's your avatar, now do whatever'. Lack of focus.

Once Hololive had the numbers to set something up and the tech to make it not look like complete shit (Sora's initial outfit and animation/tracking was, uh...), this focus gave it an edge.

Of course, Cover also made some clever hiring decision. Matsuri brought in actual idol experience, AZKi's roommate was a big name in the doujin music circles. This helped Cover to legitimately sell the idea of idol vtubers.

Then Aqua became an early breakout star (Fubuki preceded her, but it was Aqua who could sell the 'Idol' thing), and the company was no longer hard carried by Sora.

Another overlooked aspect is that Hololive provided a support structure that Nijisanji seems to have lacked for a long time. Where Nijisanji went 'Do whatever, sink or swim', Hololive looked at underperforming talents who were thinking about quitting (Miko and Suisei to be specific. Their early numbers are beyond pathetic, Miko wasn't even a 2view for months) and actually intervened, transforming them into pillars of the company rather than getting rid of underperformers.

This isn't to say that Nijisanji did everything wrong. Niji started to dabble in the same kind of content as Hololive well before Hololive overtook Nijisanji. Rather than copying each other, the two used different starting points, but ultimately ended up converging.

But Hololive's (relative) focus early on and its support for the talents paid off.

Everyone focusses on 2020 as the year Hololive had its big breakout. I'd argue that the foundations were laid in 2018 and 2019, with 2019 in particular being ruled by Nijisanji, yet Cover was consciously setting up the base from which it'd take off and over in 2020 and '21.

Conversely, Nijisanji is doing a good job in 2021 to claw its way back to the top. I'm quite impressed with its English branch.

>>15288286
They care for their talents more than other agencies. Some pillar of Holo today used to work for terrible employers

>>15309765
>They care for their talents more than other agencies.
lmao

>>15309765
lel

>>15309377
damn. Reddit spacing, but I couldn't say it better

>>15309377
How did Hololive intervene with Suisei and Miko and why can't they repeat it with the underperforming members they have now?

I got into VTubers starting from Hololive mainly because of clips. There aren't many channels who clip Nijisanji, plus the nature of the content Holo puts outs makes it so they are easier to clip and translate. If you don't know japanese and only rely on clips, Nijisanji is just harder to get into, and you also end up missing on a lot. Nowadays I've switched to watching mostly Nijisanji because I think their content is more fun and innovative, but I feel like if I didn't know japanese I would've kept watching only Holo forever.
Now if we're talking about the japanese side of things, I'd say it's basically because of the whole idol culture they pander to.

>>15291247
Neck yourself holotrannie

>>15302480
Neck yourself niggerfaggot trannykike.

>>15288286
Nijisanji is miles better that holotrash from Disney and holobronies retards.

Holo has a wider appeal while Niji can be more interesting if you find your niche. EOPs will gravitate towards the former because is less alienating.

Hololive takes advantage of the lonely male market and exploits it.

>>15288286
Miko said nigger.

>>15288286
It's all because of the Taco Bell Nacho Fries

>>15290710
i mean theyve hired EOPs but your right in saying that more often go for multilingual

>>15288286
Anon when your company treat their talents more than just mere products and give them time to grow over.

Shitting out wave after wave, after wave.

Maybe those people realize what they are doing wrong.

>>15303981
its not a cope if its a known variable thats not consistent for long like youtubes algorithm and general brand building which people have over 100 years of data to pull from to prove right place right time effects a lot of rising businesses

>>15288927
>no EOP clips
>Gibara, Lulu, Hoshikawa, and a smattering of degeneracy from Mito/Gundou/that one shotacon fujo I can't remember the name of, and a few cute clips of Roa/Sasaki/Himawari, plus a few of Noraneko being retarded(herself)
They even had underaged EOP memes
>lmao only Gibara XD
>lmao eldritch being XD
>lmao Matsuri oof XD
Hololive popularity was part of a rising tide. The difference is that Hololive fed into it, in no small part because of Coco. Nijisanji did too, but not as much and not as visibly. And there was Haato, too. And Korone's enthusiasm was beyond any Niji.

I was one of the sidebar recommendation locust hoard right at the cusp of 2019, I remember that shit clear as day

>>15308671
this
clips got me into Hololive sure, but I would not have stuck with it or branched out from Korone had the company not been so interconnected

>>15288286
Miko said the N word. Eekum Bokum. Look at how YouTube generally operates, you have random 10 year old home videos getting picked up by the algorithm and getting millions of views. Shit's entirely random.

As an art graduated, both logos are bad, but the nijisanji one it's beyond salvation, excessive use of colors, wrong pallette, the font is atrocious and that blue pacman with the rainbow it's awful, this logo screams cheap cup ramen or chinese candy, on the other hand the anycolor logo its perfect simple but powerful absolutely love the font, the hololive logo its boring and plain, the colors are cold and the degradation is very simple, but i like the font and the triangle

The nijisanji logo needs an urgent overhaul, even better if they follow the steps of anycolor and change the Japanese name (ichikara) for something more global

>>15309377
Wow a solid and well thought out reply.
Goodjob Anon

>>15289490
>>15289603
One thing you gotta remember is that several Nijilivers only do vtubing as a side things, a hobby basically, so wether or not they blow up in popularity is not really important for a chunk of them.

>>15317218
That's a problem, though. Nijis don't make enough money to take it seriously or dedicate as much time to it, whereas holos do and make it their focus.

>>15288286
Hololive puts their foot down and tells their talent they're not allowed to act like whores. Any other answer is troon delusion.

>>15304791
I'd put Korone together with FBK instead. She has more similarities with the short vids (ほたて, scatman) and meme phrases (DOOG, hamburger).
Coco could flat out speak English and had relatively short streams (asacoco) which started getting full English CCs. Very big in luring in the EOPs. This is also around the time the subreddit got big and Hololive had hired those trannies to run a EN twitter account.
>>15309377
I agree with some of these things but not others.
Miko didn't have any special support. You can glean this from all the things she's talked about regarding her early career. I don't remember everything she talked about but some things off the top of my head include being abandoned once it was clear she was not taking off (for example, she stopped getting her videos edited and had to do it herself), Yagoo tweeting that he should have done more for her (this was on some anniversary, I can't remember which), Subaru and Mio being the ones who "saved" her (her own words) by persuading her to join Hololive (Miko was in Cover making videos before she started streaming so technically she wasn't in Hololive yet).
Suisei got no support after she joined INNK. She's talked about this too but I'm not a big Suisei watcher so I don't exactly know the details but basically she had to do everything herself anyway like she was still an indie. What exactly did she get during this time? I guess she got to appear as a guest performer in one of azki's lives. That's all I really remember as a stand out INNK moment. The rest was just her streaming and building a fanbase like anyone else.

>>15318474
Cover had a lot of early black company problems. The whole Mel debacle is a good example of them dropping the ball hard. I like to think they've broadly turned it all around though, hence why the talent has nothing but good things to say about hololive.

>>15318474
Suisei being brought to Hololive proper was very different that when she was at INNK, luckily for her. Starting with other members support and to Hololive giving way more of a fuck for her than INNK ever did.

>>15319418
And yet they still allow AZKi to suffer over there.

>muh chinese
>muh clips
>muh EOPs
Get better arguments.

>>15308671
absolutely this
this is why the hololive brand became so massive

>>15308671
omegaalpha_en?
who?

Box-pushing by itself wouldn't do much, it's only in combination with Holos being professional clock-punchers that it becomes effective. When the 3rd gen came out, Nijisanji's old guard was busy with offline events and their new hires didn't really stream consistently. Meanwhile 3rd gen was actively practicing view funneling tactics and by 2020 there were a lot of messages on 4ch and 5ch alike saying they're watching Hololive now because Nijis aren't streaming. Meanwhile, there's never been enough unity in Nijisanji to do any real view funneling.

I'm not really sure how strongly Hololive managers pressure the talents to stream, but it does seem like there is some kind of basic schedule trying to minimize dead hours which combined with box pushing is effective in keeping the viewerbase circulating within the company. Nijis on the other hand are largely part-timers who seem to stream whenever it suits them and there genuinely are times where despite the larger number of chuubas, there's less Nijis streaming than Holos, because they're all at their day job, only for all of them to stream at the same time after they get back home.

Also Hololive was early in the game. If it had not blown up but maintained their 2019 viewership, Hololive would still be the second biggest vtuber company. Many smaller companies have tried to copy the Hololive model, but I suspect they lack the numbers, both in chuubas and viewers, to actually make it effective. Meanwhile, Hololive could build up an audience in an era where everyone was collabing with everyone, so when they started box-pushing for real, they already had the numbers for it to work.

People have also noted that chuubas whose name is in kanji or kana tend to show up in the algorhitm less for overseas viewers, this goes for everyone, but more Holos have traditionally had their channel names in latin alphabet than Nijis have.Aside from Holos pandering to foreigners, this might explain why Hololive attracted such disproportionate foreign audience as clippers only jumped ship after they saw their Hololive clips getting more views than Niji clips.

>>15321227
That and Miko said nigger.

>>15321227
I once heard that unless they are specifically on a break, they have to stream a minimum of four times a week. The only exception to this seems to be Ayame, though I've never understood her circumstances.

>>15321406
gen 3 up have detailed contracts
gen 2 down(+gamers) have them loose like backstreet hookers

>>15321406
Haachama too, though it's known that she's a university student.

>>15321330
Miko saying nigger would do jack shit if clippers wouldn't catch it, now, delusional 35p, go back to your general.

>>15321607
Cope.

>>15321673
Seethe.

>>15319481
Well, INNK still wants AZKi, they didn't really want Suisei, so they shafted her and Hololive took her in.

>>15308671
Don't forget the fact that Youtube reads that data and learns that people who watch Hololive only watches Hololive so youtube will just recommend you Hololive vtubers only.
All of this just reinforces the brand.

>>15288286
The obvious answer is that hololive are made or at least heavily encouraged by management, to pander to EOPs because of Korone getting a ton of traction doing it.

Aqua used to never read out the English comments back when the neighbor arc was happening in Minecraft but Korone panders to EOPs and gets successful from it, and then all of a sudden she's just fully on board constantly saying POG and all this other shit.

Most Nijisanji livers don't acknowledge the EOPs at all. Nui, Akko, Chigusa and Amyamya are like the only ones who do decently often. I don't blame them either. Ars used to get tons of English retards who would constantly spam the big head shit even after she got her model corrected and it annoyed her to no end.

Everyone in this thread only started watching vtubers towards the start of this year at best. You can see it in the replies.

>>15318967
What is this Mel debacle?
Seen it mentioned a couple of times, but I'm obviously too new to have seen it firsthand.

>>15321959
Her manager almost raped her, in short she was sexually harassed by him and Cover didn't do jack shit to him, until she threatened Cover to file a lawsuit.

>>15322004
More importantly it revealed a side of Mel that she hadn't shown before that point: she's shrewd, doesn't fuck around, and will ruin your ass if she thinks she's been slighted.

>>15321959
>>15322152
Her manager almost raped her, in short she was sexually harassed by him and Cover do jack shit to him, until she threatened Cover to file a lawsuit.

memes
unironically

>>15288286
Reddit, Clippers and pandering to EOP's
im quite serious

>>15288286
Financially they're about the same though, especially after H*lolive lost Coco and probably more now that Nijisanji EN has become Nijisanji EU with the addition of a bunch of gay britfags.

Individually the Holos are more successful because there are fewer.

>>15323421
Coco wasn't as important

>>15288286
It is better, that's all

>>15323421
HoloX more than makes up for Coco's superchats, and Coco didn't leave them with nothing either. Her last month was like 6 months' worth of SC income.

>>15322152
I want mel to ruin my ass if you know what I mean.

>>15321227
This is probably one of the most correct takes

Watching lately the interactions HoloX have with eachother I was quite impressed. They've been here for like a month and the dynamic they have is something very hard to manufacture, the interactions and relationships, etc it seems liek they've been friends for years. It's something all the girls on Holo have with eachother and that seems very genuine, I don't know what kind of group bonding stuff they do but it became so clearly obvious that they do a perfect job with this last gen.

>>15288616
NGL, I had no idea who these girls even were and didn't really get into them until Neptunia: Virtual Stars was announced and someone linked me a clip of Korone playing D64.

>>15309377
>I'm quite impressed with Nijisanji's English branch
You just destroyed a good post by posting that nonsense.

>>15288616
I missed that collab... and it will never return

>>15325700
Me, too. And I'm I didn't get to keep Mio.

>>15324830
hololive tends to have a bit of nepotism between generations, and that's usually a good thing, at least when it comes to interpersonal interaction. But more than that, they tend to hire veteran streamers or at least entertaining people that show good chemistry and presence.

Makes you wonder how the fuck Anya passed muster, huh?

>>15313965
it's funny to think that some of festival's reputation came from some of her interactions with hskw, she surpassed her while surfing the tide but now hskw is back to being bigger

>>15288286
Because Hololive panders to EOPs

>>15288286
Because Hololive feels more like a family then Nijisanji. The atomoshere of unity they have together is their biggest strength in my opinion. It let's them become better then they would be by themselves. As for Nijisanji it feels more like a competition between them where they try to one up each other because the amount of viewers they have is literally life or death for them since management will "graduate" them if they don't pull enough. Now Granted it's been years since I've watched any of them so things might have changed there but their past conduct has already ruined my opinion of them so badly that I'm not inclined to give them another chance.

>>15325814
>I didn't get to keep Mio.
Huh I heard that they just removed them from the gacha not that they removed them from peoples accounts.

YouTube algorithm.

Click 1 hololive video and your recommendations gets spammed with hololive content.

>>15327045
HSKW hasn't had a Hand incident and even if she did, she has groomed her fans into accepting that she is interested in real men.

>>15331000
No, they gave you Mio but you had to grind stages to keep her. Basically the same thing they are doing the Lil' Sandy (as well as the other Manjuu version of characters). The fact they had you grind to be able to keep her and not just give her to you like they did Neptune the previous year when they collab with Neptunia was bullshit.

>>15330921
>"Graduate" them because can't pull enough viewers.
Yet the ghost member is still count as active and there is that demon lord guy who almost never stream in his own channel

>>15332116
The ghost guy is not considered active. I'm almost certain he's officially graduated and has been for a long while.

it tells something about our society if the reason why "family feeling" is why people like hololive

>>15288286
unicornfag

>>15333106
Basically, all of 2434 needs to be Dokuzuhonsha.

>>15324830
Each gen usually have a few weeks or so getting familiar with each other. For holoJP members, this means they are probably have visited each other houses, eating out and hanging out with each other, enough to become sort of "friends" like in college class or such. Some may not hit it off as well as each other but there is genuine bonding there.

>>15289777
Your post reinforced the fact that the elitist, gatekeeping cancer of a fandom basically killed nijisanjis growth.

>>15332834
Kataribe is still considered active and has not yet graduated. Hell, the fact that she's still here after the usual 2 years contract means she actually renewed it instead of letting it expired like few others. Gilzaren is still active too, everywhere outside his own channel.

>>15309377
>Conversely, Nijisanji is doing a good job in 2021 to claw its way back to the top. I'm quite impressed with its English branch.
what

>>15333106
>>15330921
Yeah family, friendship, group power, unexpected pairings.
Regardless of clips or publicity or whatever the first reason you check out Hololive, the staying power is in the familial feeling.

Remember the insane sub bleed across the entire company when Coco and Haato were suspended?
Everyone but Coco and Haato were going down thousand a day. I really thought I was seeing the end there.

>>15333106
>>15330921
>>15341261
it's a work you fucking marks lmao

>>15341301
And?

>>15341301
Okay but what if it wasn't

>>15288286
YouTube

>>15289490
it's funny, I recently tried an experiment on youtube where I'd just put two holos on the search bar and see what came up.
I searched for pretty much every combination I could think of, and the only ones where I had to scroll down were "Mel Korone" and "Mel Suisei". And even they had a few clipped interactions in minecraft or something when you scrolled past page 1.
Meanwhile searching for "deron finana" gave me "finance" results, and "deron pomu" gave me mostly Pomu clips.

>>15340036
That was already the case back when Niji subreddit was taken over by Anycolor. The prevailing opinion there was "we don't want to fill the front page with memes, we do ACTUAL discussion here *sniff*".
That lasted until the first NijiEN branch debuted and the talents themselves started to "memepost" themselves there.

>>15308671
>>15309377
u guys need no meds, based post

>>15321903
>spam the big head shit even after she got her model corrected and it annoyed her to no end
wow thin skinned bitch
no wonder she's literal who

>>15342341
Randomly looked at the front page of both subs, here's what we can see (Top 25 + 2 sticky slots = 27 posts) -

NijiEN : 17 (1 stickied)
NijiJP : 7
NijiID : 1
NijiHolo : 1
Niji at a Glance : 1 (stickied)

HoloEN : 10
HoloJP : 12
Stars : 3 (2 stickied)
JP+EN : 2

>>15342248
Same thing with Niji discord. They had a huge hateboner for hololive and only those worthy and intellectual enough could understand why Nijisanji was superior in every way. Mods there were powertripping all the time and thought they were somehow directly related to Nijisanji and had authority. If you disagreed with them, you were anti.

Roa/Meiro incident also caused a whole lot of old timers to drop Nijisanji.

>>15289291
What are you even talking about? I'm talking from the perspective of a viewer. Hololive became unwatchable because of the interaction with the EN branch and I don't want the same to happen to Nijisanji.

>>15321959
Mel's manager was stalking her.
Cover fired him, but he continued doing so. Took a while to sort it out thanks to nipland aws, but most people (rrat merchants aren't people) have gotten over it now since Mel stayed on and continued to praise Holo.

>>15289555
wut? HoloEN is filled with the typical Twitch cancer streamers. Heck some of them literally streamed on Twitch before coming to Hololive.

Retard...


Anyways Nijisanji Debiru/Hayama interactions are one of the best Vtuber collabs there is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGO9K8QSlAE

>>15288286
>talent

there's a clue for you in your post.

>>15288286
Wanna know the real reason? It's (You)No really, it's all the viewers and clippers watching them more

>>15288286
hags, hags, and more hags

Part time vs full time.
Niji thought that having a large number of people working part time meant that they would cover all the slots and have a Niji streaming at any time of day.
Holos were a little more surgical than that, as mentioned by other posters, and they reaped the rewards for it.

>>15324830
Gen 1 is barely civil with each other.

>>15330921
Hololive is clearly business teetee for the most part and all the well established relationships come from way before holo (GAMERS is pure nepotism). The only holo that really makes an effort to bond with others is Subaru and that's about it. People like to say "they're a family!!!", but all the gens ignores Gen 1, we had Matsuri shitting on Haato publicly on Twitter just the other day, and anyone can tell that Ayame makes up excuses to not collab with people every chance she gets.
If you wanna argue that "genuine" is better, then niji's cliques make much more sense, it's the idea of being friends with everyone that doesn't make any sense .Were you friends with everyone during your school days? Are you friends with everyone in your workplace? Not to mention that niji doesn't stop the girls from collabing with the boys like holo does (even though they have people like Polka and Roberu who used to do content together in the past).
>management will "graduate" them if they don't pull enough.
Now that you just pulled straight out of your ass, if that were the case how do you explain Momo? Hajime? GILZALEN?

>>15288286
Gawr Gura

>>15341301
Then they’re good actresses and the entertainment is still better.

>>15309377
Couldn't have said it better myself

>Conversely, Nijisanji is doing a good job in 2021 to claw its way back to the top. I'm quite impressed with its English branch.
Some seem to have a problem with this statement, for a valid reason I'd say, so let me add my own interpretation to it
EN branch did something Niji rarely have done before, at least not to this scale, which is unifying their talents. NijiJP chuubas are more or less standalone with some random collabs and friendships here and there, so its more like watching individual indie chuubas, but with an added seal of quality. Meanwhile the EN branch are similar to the holos as in if you know one, you probably know all of them and likely like at least a handful of them. They often collab and overall seem far more tight nit than their JP counterparts, or in other words they feel more like a team, or if you wanna get sappy, "like a family"

TL;DR, EN branch is still not nearly as successful as the holos and likely never will be, but at least they're on the right track, mainly thanks to their unity

>>15288286
that's only true in the west specifically

itt: EOPs

>>15347664
Well, gen 1 has a feral haachama.

>>15309377
>Writes a good, concise, and accurate post.
>Ends it with being impressed by the English Niji Branch.
You were so close.

>>15353869
Not to start something, but it's pretty funny to me how much AC, and the girls themselves, went with a Holo-esque, to call it something, approach to the branch, even trying their dammed best to sell the image that they are all familly and really close, far more than even ID, which is widely regarded as the most tighy knit branch in Nijisanji, helps that several of the members kmew each other already and the branch is still pretty small.

>>15316927
This is a copypasta, right?

>>15353937
cope

>>15353869
I guess the issue is that this "unity" has not spread to their JP senpais, either due to them not caring, or ENs not being allowed to collab with them.
Are any of the NijiENs bilingual with JP?

>>15288286
nijisanji chose quantity over quality

when it comes to en streamers, i think its basically because holoen girls arent openly bragging about being omegawhores like nijien are

>>15288286
chink clippers, the collapse of .EVIL, gen 4s debut, Miko saying nigger, COVID and the Youtube algorithm.

>>15347664
Because gen bonding was introduced with gen 3. Up until gen 2, the talents didn't even know each other until the day of their debut. Gamers is excluded since it was pure nepotism, but in a sense you could say that they had their gen bonding time pre-Holo.

>>15353869
Accurate, I'd say. It's not that Niji EN matches Holo EN numbers (though their CCVs and revenue come a lot closer than their subscriber counts. Not on par, but quite a bit closer). But Niji's now matching Holo's 'Social' approach that gets you invested in the branch, not just the individual. You're no longer following a streamer, but a streaming ecosystem. Instead of a hook, it's a net.

That's a huge step forward when it comes to viewer retention and sharing.

(And given how closely linked a lot of the Nijis were pre-niji, an argument can be made that Niji EN also takes from Holo Gamers)

>>15342248
Kinda crazy that she did an Among us collab with Vshojo back before all the ENs debuted but has yet to interact with her own company's vtubers.

>>15363500
Some are, mainly Petra and Reimu, and they have collabed with some JPs outside Oliver.
>>15368598
It kind of does desu, it's even a bit of a joke, though curiously with ones where it can really apply, though I do remember Enna making a joke about Elira's influence in EN but nothing much.
>>15368737
Finana? She has collabed with a few othe livers but it's very uncommon, though now that you mention that, it's been a while since she collabed with the people she did at the start of NijiEN I think.

>>15288616
>Collab with popular chink gacha game in the first year of it's english launch
>Collab is translated and put on the english server at the same time as JP and CN
That collab caused a massive influx of EOPs watching hololive clips, moving into subs to the streamers then as it hit peak momentum the released gen 4
Hololive timed everything perfectly to get the biggest influx of viewership possible along with new streamers.
Then just as it started to settle down released the HoloEN which combined with covid lock downs pretty much put a stranglehold on it all.
Hololive just really took advantage of a marketing move.

>>15288665
Niji had the early moment. Hololive was behind Niji until the azur lane collab.
Even when Gen 4 debuted the numbers were only slightly higher in subs (Towa was actually lower than Emma August) but Hololive had way higher growth after due to the mass number of new EOP fans.

>>15288286
I lost the link, but there is a video showing ALL the top world super chat earners for years showing the growth of the scene, since Sora to Coco, and you can see that EVERYTHING exploded with the dragon. She was the spice, and perhaps, quite likely, the most important vtuber since Kizuna AI. The data is really fucking expressive, she changed the whole game.

>>15369440
I'm referring to Deron not collabing with NijiEN but Vshojo.

>>15369608
thing about the azur lane collab you missed is that the game had a massive influx of new players because of the anime just before they had it. its how i got in and i think it was the main reason hololive topped nijisanji

>>15288286
> Are the individual talents more entertaining and dedicated?
This.
There is no one like Pekora, Marine, Aqua, Fubuki, Rushia in Nijisanji. Cover lucked out so fucking much by getting these girls

>>15371747
>Luck
Gen 3 was scouted. So were Choco, Mel, Aqua and Fubuki.

>>15371747
forgot to add the relationship and box pushing
cause getting pekora is one thing but getting marine and pekora and having them interact on stream is a whole new level of kino content that attracts viewers. and this is just one example. there is multitude as shown here>>15308671

>>15371941
Why, yes it is luck.
Luck that the girls wanted to join hololive and not nijisanji for instance.
We don't know the details of hiring the talents and if other companies weren't interested in them too.
At the end of the day it boils down to cover's luck that the girls decided to sign up for hololive and not nijisanji.

>>15372127
I think Marine applied and failed to get in Nijisanji before auditioning for Hololive. Of course this came from random comments in Niconico video so takes it with a grain of salt.

Korone only

>>15288286
Hololive sounds cool whereas Nijisanji is like some noodles brand name

>>15371747
>Marine
Rindou and Ange
>Aqua
Chihiro and Ars
>Fubuki
Mito and Lize (loosely)
Pekora and Rushia are sort of legitimate but they don't do anything unique either.
You could also say that Hololive doesn't have anyone like Sasaki, Deron, Noraneko, or Sango.

Nijisanji is overpopulated

Yeah, HoloLive also has a lot of talents, but at least they give more time between generations in one branch and they also try to give some time to the talents to find the kind of audience they have.

Nijisanji has a lot of people and only a few are popular enough

Well the rest has already been said, the quality of streamers that are in HL, and the quality of the interactions make HL a more enjoyable experience.

>>15372127
>>15372767
Iirc Pekora also got rejected by Nijisanji right?
i think it's more about how Holo's scouting team is better than Niji's than just some abstract reasons like luck

>What the FUCK is a Nijisanji?

vs

>Hololive. [Holo] [live]. [Virtual] [broadcast].

>>15288286

This is actually something I've considered for a long time, researched, and was actually working on a video about. I've followed vtubers since the days back in /jp/, back when Eilene was relevant and people were gushing over this and that, and I think that while some of the points people bring up in this thread are relevant, they miss the bigger picture. Which is that vtubing, especially virtual livers - which really only started in like 2018-2019, is new and volatile, and that what Hololive had was a little bit of luck and a LOT of business acumen.

1. The idol strategy. Now, I don't think that being "idols" versus whatever Nijisanji does is a particularly relevant distinction. But the way Hololive promotes, organizes, and models their talents on idol companies has enabled their growth, both from a pragmatic, market POV and a fan-engagement one. Frankly, Japan isn't very familiar with streaming culture, and contextualizing virtual livers as "idols" gives Hololive the established tools of the idol industry to grow their brand. Fans also have a framework to engage with their Oshis in a familiar context, you can see this most prominently in the virtual handshake events that Hololive was pushing pre-Covid. But also, on the back-end, it makes things like record deals, advertisement, and marketing much easier when Cover is looking at themselves less like a talent agency and more like an idol agency.

2. Chinks and clippers. A direct consequence of this idol formula is that fans can transition from other fanbases smoothly, and in the case of China especially, which has huge idol culture fanbases, it was second nature. These primarily Chinese clippers latched onto Hololive for these reasons and grew the brand exponentially, at least until Coco yab. This cannot be understated, ultimately it's word of mouth that drove Hololive's growth, and this came largely from China.

3. Expansionism. Holo was the first to break into the west, and they did so in, frankly, an extremely extravagant fashion. Like, the talent they recruited for HoloEN was head and shoulders above the kind of people Holo has gotten before. This could be because they just get more diverse and talented applicants due to their fame, but I have a hard time believing they didn't scout some of their talent, or at least expedite them through the process. But whether luck or deliberate, people like >HER and DD are not going to drop by every day, and Holo has aggressively marketed their talent, while also making sure their rivals don't get any influence by heavily disincentivizing collabs.

That said, I don't think the throne is as impervious as it looks. Hololive is showing some of the same signs as Upd8 and .Live before their eventual collapse. They're too ambitious, seeking out shit like HoloALT and new markets rather than reinforcing their core talent, morale seems lower than ever with Council and BREAK BREAK BREAK, and their competitors have seized on Holo's weak points and exploited them. NijiEN is nepotism, plain and simple. Or at least an attempt to transfer an existing friend group over to their company. Why? Because Niji knows they can't beat Holo on the parasocial, unicorn-pandering front, so they go for the other approach, create chemistry and collaborative atmospheres that Holo can't match because, frankly, HoloEN and Council just aren't all that close or friendly. And it seems to be working, honestly. Niji doesn't fall too far behind Holo in terms of SC revenue and Luxiem's debut blew me away, there are whole untapped markets that Hololive seems unwilling to touch, and I think that's a huge mistake.

Lets not forget that two years ago Kizuna Ai and the four kings seemed unassailable on their thrones, and look where they are now. Vtubing is still very, very young, and it's idiotic to think that Hololive will go uncontested forever.

>>15374743
>Sasaki, Deron, Noraneko, or Sango.
Sango is legit the only good chuuba you've listed

>>15377273
While I do think that HoloEN branch is losing grounds to NijiEN, HoloJP seems stronger than ever with constant promotions and concerts. Juries are still out on HoloALT but even if it's a flop, as most it will just be a money sink side project. The core of Hololive will always be its chuuba and as long as you don't get a massive yab like management power trip or conflicts between Holos, Cover should still be able to keep going. What set Cover/Ichikara apart from Upd8 and .Live is management. Both Yagoo and Tazumi seem to have a vision for their respective companies and had set up a strong management to make sure that vision is carried out.

>>15377273
Council seems like a flop so far. I wonder how it'll affect Hololive moving forward.

>>15379005
Never ask an artist to scout or recommend a talent ever again.

>>15379005
Only if you have extremely high expectations. In the grand scheme of things council is a big success and I think they don't neccessarily expect more than that

>>15377273
>>15379005
I don't think Council's a flop entirely. The issue is pretty much the bubble burst for westerners. Myths numbers were a set of events coinciding in a huge boom; that boom past and while they still have large subs Myths view numbers have dropped a lot for livestreams. Gura will likely stay in her own bubble but people who are fans of Gura are not fans of Vtubers, just Gura.
That said a few members of council feel completely unmotivated and if they stay like that it'll hurt the brand. People expected more like Myth, they'll be much more cautious in the future now,

>>15378298
I agree, Cover won't have the same issues as Upd8 and .Live at least. They've got market data to help prevent it.
NijiJP is still incredibly popular too, it's well known they have a significantly lower number of none-native viewers compared to holoJP which has been reflected in revenue.

>>15289777
Reddit, the post.
>to be fair, you have to have a high IQ to understand Nijisanji

>Nijisanji
Hired people that stream
>Hololive
Hired whores who know how to milk money of retards.

>>15380805
Based Cover

>>15309377
>Hololive looked at underperforming talents who were thinking about quitting and actually intervened, transforming them into pillars of the company rather than getting rid of underperformers
Roboco...