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/vr/ - Retro Games

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8459830 No.8459830 [Reply] [Original]

If it supported DVDs was it going to make it bros?

>> No.8459887

>>8459830
Dreamcast was a victim of having to launch early. It was undeniably a 6th-generation console, but it was designed using 5th-generation sensibilities.

>Only supported 128KB memory cards (like the PS1) since flash memory was expensive in 1998. The PS2 in 2000 launched with 8MB memory cards.
>Only had one analog stick since that was the standard at the time.
>Made rumble an optional accessory like the N64 did.
>Had to settle for 1GB CDs instead of DVDs since DVD drives were too expensive in 1998.

I don't think a DVD player would have been cost effective for them to include in 1998. If Sega had went along with it then it certainly would have helped the console's popularity, but it also would have raised the price or compromised the design in other ways. Crazy loss leading wasn't an option for them since their financials were already in the shitter.

They probably could have released a dual analog controller and a DVD player later on, but then they would be drifting back into shitty Genesis add-on territory.

>> No.8459889

>>8459830
I just wish it was backwards compatible with Saturn games

>> No.8459897

>>8459830
A 1998 console with built-in DVD was unthinkable. Reminder that PS2 released 2 years later and was still stupidly expensive due to the DVD thing.

>> No.8459914

>>8459830
Nothing was going to save the Dreamcast. Sega was almost $100 million in debt at its release because of the Saturn, and other idiotic investments. The Dreamcast would have needed to sell 10 million consoles per year and have a 15:1 software attach rate just to let the company break even. The fact the console was even released at all is a testament to how retarded the company was from a business standpoint, but also a wholesome story about a company basically realizing they're going to die and going out with a bang.

>> No.8459916

>>8459830
No, the DC was only going to make it if Sega had the cash to keep supporting it, which was a foregone conclusion after the Saturn era.

>> No.8460019

>>8459887
This is what cope looks like

>> No.8460147

>>8459889
You and nobody else.
Saturn should've been BC with Genesis and one of its add-ons though.

>> No.8460152

>>8459830
No, because the competitor ran the DVD drive manufacturing (they would have had a cut or Sega would have had a more challenging go at producing them, and Sony would always be able to do it cheaper or even at loss on the DVD side), had big name 3rd party support already in its belt (to name a major one, Sony financially helped Square stay afloat when Spirits Within bombed around this time, so Final Fantasy X and Kingdom Hearts would go to Sony no matter what Sega actually did), and Sony hadn't spent the last gen and a half confounding every developer and publisher. People were MUCH more willing to buy into Sony's next thing, and while some of it was things Sega did, a lot was out of their control really.

GDROM only contributed to the fall of Sega because its copy protection was immediately and permanently blown wide open in a fluke; it should have been an otherwise usable medium for 6th gen games.

>> No.8460170

>>8459914
basically yeah. saturn was an unbelievable disaster and they should've just moved their games to the playstation in 97. then they would've had a fighting chance for the next time around especially if they partnered with microsoft or something.

>> No.8460203

>>8460152
>its copy protection was immediately and permanently blown wide open in a fluke
how did that happen?

>> No.8460220

>>8460203
MIL-CD

>> No.8460263

>>8460203
There's a lot of hearsay on the exploits' development and some of it is that a devkit was stolen somewhere. It could also have been reverse engineering, honestly, but it doesn't matter. It was early in the system's life which is the only reason one could say that it affected the Dreamcast's fate. It's probably not a major factor but a small contributor on a pile.

>> No.8460721

>>8460147
That would have made the Saturn even more expensive and complicated to manufacture.

>> No.8460810

>>8459830
I don't think anything could've saved it, just bad place, bad time.

>> No.8460818

>>8460721
Yes but it absolutely would have paid off outside of Japan

>> No.8460829

>>8460147
>>8460818
Behold the state of shitposting on /vr/.

>> No.8461054

>>8460721
Nah, just means the entire thing would have to be (and should've been) redesigned. The final hardware was dookie butt garbage.

>> No.8461068

>>8460721
or maybe it would encourage them to redesign the whole damn mess that was the Saturn architecture

>> No.8461085

>>8461054
>>8461068
The Sega CD and 32x already complicated the Genesis tremendously. Very little of the hardware you would have to include to support one of those systems would be useful to next gen games any way. You would essentially just have a whole Sega CD or 32x on the motherboard alongside the Saturn.

>> No.8461102

>>8459887
>>Only had one analog stick since that was the standard at the time.
I remember thinking "the PSX had 2 sticks, surely SEGA will release a dual analog version eventually"

>>8460147
>You and nobody else.
incorrect and bad taste
>Half the systems library available from launch and at a discount
>Sega reprints a "greatest hits" line of saturn games
>only 10 games but it still a good thing
I was saving up for college at the time and couldn't afford one but if it were back compat I would have found a way to make it happen. Used Saturn games were selling for 5~10 at the time.

>> No.8461359

>>8459830
Only supported DVDs or a fully builtin DVD player Op that's musta be the difference.

>> No.8461398

>>8459830
The DC was fucked no matter what. It sold very well, Sega by that point was simply fucked out from years of terrible, awful management.

>> No.8461463

No because the GameCube did just fine with 1.4 GB and really didn't need it.

The Dreamcast was basically the perfect console but the past 5 years of Jap faggotRy from Sega (32x, Saturn... Don't think mega cd was a bad idea or console) ruined their chances.

>> No.8461472

>>8461463
Gamecube had many games which were split across multiple discs or which had gimped audio quality.

>> No.8461474

>>8459830
The Dreamcast is the victim of past actions coming to take effect. Had the Saturn not flomped as badly as it did, then Sega wouldn't have bet the farm on the Dreamcast. They could've focused on refining it, maybe shooting for a 99 release rather than 98.

Like >>8459887 pointed out, it was made in the time where 5th Generation mentalities were still there. Maybe a single addon wouldn't have gone into the Genesis-Addon Territory, but it could've been something they did down the line.

Alas, poor Sega. You fucked up.

>> No.8461758

>>8459830
Selling a console with DVD functionality in 1998 would've been so expensive that it wouldn't have been viable either. Plus the fact of the matter is that games of the time simply didn't really need a full 4.7 gigs of storage. Look at the gamecube and how it got away just fine with mini-discs that only held 1.3gb. the lack of space was only an issue with certain types of games like the GTA series that never couldve been done on the cube.

The fact of the matter us that sega was a dead man walking and NOTHING they did with the dreamcast could've possibly suceeded. Be thankful we got the dreamcast at all, honestly. They went out in a blaze of glory

>> No.8462031

When I was growing up Sega was seen as a joke with the Genesis/Sega CD/32x shit and the Saturn was just a joke that was completely ignored but somehow Sega turned it all around with the Dreamcast, everyone I knew was so hyped for it and it didn't disappoint. I can telekinetically transport myself to the period of September 1999 - September 2000 where the Dreamcast's next gen experiences were competing against late gen N64 and PS1 classics.

>> No.8462417

>>8461758
Dreamkek is like a discount gaycube, and gaycube sold like ass anyway. Aside from the lack of storage space, it seems that the GC was too weak to handle GTA physics, something could be handled by PS2's multi core CPU and Xbox's brute power.

>> No.8462429

>>8462417
No, Gamecube is a transgender Dreamcast.

>> No.8462434

>>8462429
Xbox is a manly Dreamcast

>> No.8462436

>>8459897
None of the Sony consoles have ever been considered expensive. Mainstream game consoles are targeted to the lowest common denominator and are often sold at a loss.

>> No.8462440

>>8462434
It's the American version of the Dreamcast: fat, black, and powerful.

>> No.8462442

>>8462436
PS2 was definitely expensive at release. The price got cut very quick nonetheless so people don't remember it as super expensive.

>> No.8462445

>>8462436
>None of the Sony consoles have ever been considered expensive
also you must have missed all the memes abut PS3 and $600 dollars

>> No.8462449

>>8462445
$600 wasn't expensive, it was only expensive for a teenager or a poor Mexican family.

>> No.8462453

no, but it could've possibly been a solid 2nd place in that gen.

>> No.8462454

>>8462436
Sony was able to get away with the PS2 due to being a giant electronics company that could afford to be a loss-leader with the PS2 in order to get units into homes and sell more DVDs. Plus there's economies of scale and Sony was already manufacturing DVD lasers anyway.

Sega didnt have the means to do any of that, not to mention adding DVD functionality 2 years earlier than that would've been exponentially more expensive

>> No.8462456

>>8462449
t. Ken Kutaragi

>> No.8462457

>>8462449
t. guy who's parents bought him a neo geo aes for christmas
Wow keep putting us goyim down oh rich one.

>> No.8462460

>>8462457
Mexican

>> No.8462461

>>8462460
nothing but pure white trash here

>> No.8462462

>>8462449
You're delusional. The previous generation of consoles retailed for 200-300 dollars. A 2-3x price increase is ludicrous.

>> No.8462474

>>8462442
It was cheap in the US, only 300 dollars. Everywhere else, it was expensive. In Japan it was 40k yen, and in UK it was 300 quids.

>> No.8462479

>>8462474
it was very expensive in my country for some reason

>> No.8462484

>>8462479
Because your country is irrelevant and filled with subhumans.

>> No.8462486

>>8462484
Why are you so hateful?

>> No.8462491

>>8462486
I'm not the hateful one here. You fags are the ones shitting on Sony.

>> No.8462497

>>8462491
take your console war bait elsewhere

>> No.8462506 [DELETED] 

>>8462479
Because you're country isn't filled with coomsumers with more money than brain like amerishart.

>> No.8462512

>>8462479
Because your country isn't filled with coomsumers with more money than brain like amerisharts.

>>8462491
How is that shitting on snoy? PS2 was an expensive console for a good reason. Gaycube was weak and Xbox made microsoft lose a billion dollars or something.

>> No.8463592

>>8459830
Half the reason the PS2 sold so well was because at $299 it was the cheapest DVD player on the market at the time.

If the Dreamcast had supported DVDs in 1999 and still been priced at $199 the sales would have been fucking bonkers. Sega would have lost their ass on every unit sold, however.

>> No.8463594

>>8460203
>>8460220
>>8460263
I don't remember which group was the first to get pirated games to boot on the Dreamcast, but I do specifically remember them saying that the GD-ROM protection scheme was defeated so completely that the system had been "cracked like an egg".

>> No.8463596

>>8462474
never knew the US was such an outlier. I wonder if that was calculated to fuck the dreamcast since everywhere else it wasn't really an issue.

>> No.8463601

>>8463592
>it was the cheapest DVD player on the market at the time.
zoomer myth

>> No.8463646

>>8463601
Not really
It was in America

>> No.8463649
File: 35 KB, 502x377, dcstandbig.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8463649

PS2 and dreamy can play nice together

>> No.8463662

>>8463646
https://archive.is/2A55i
>OCTOBER 24, 1999
>When the first players went on sale in spring 1997, the cheapest cost about $600. Prices fell to about $300 last year and then dropped again over the summer. The cheapest DVD players now cost about $200.

>> No.8463665

>>8463646
https://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1999/11/08/268511/index.htm
>November 8, 1999
>You can still spend $2,000 for a high-end player, but this winter you'll find plenty of solid performers on retailers' shelves for $200 to $400.

>> No.8464248

>>8463649
Funny, that's how I have my set up right now.

>> No.8464252

>>8459897
Ps2 was literally the cheapest dvd player you could find until around 2003

>> No.8464274

no for a few reasons:
>SEGA was already in too deep of a financial hole from the Saturn, anything less than a gigantic worldwide smash would have sunk them
>market confidence in SEGA was low, and the dreamcast's early advertising was too vague to effectively boost it
>SEGA wasn't primarily a tech company, Sony was, meaning that sony could manufacture chips and components for themselves whilst Sega had to buy them on the market. If they were selling identical consoles sony could do it at a better margin.
>Piracy would have still plagued the dreamcast
>They lost EA support which was a big selling point for their 2d consoles

>> No.8464473
File: 201 KB, 875x735, bernie_segata.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8464473

>>8459889
Why bother? Nothing worth playing on that failed piece of shit.

>> No.8464508

>>8462491
>nooooo you can’t be mean to the winner, that’s rude

>> No.8464513

>>8461398
It sold well until the PS2 came out, and even despite the PS2’s supply problems, people waited until they could get one.

>> No.8464567

>>8459887
they were considering some sort of dvd player add-on towards the end of the console's life cycle. Probably wouldn't have paid off. Why would you buy a console and then an add on that plays dvds over one that can play dvds fresh out of the box?

>> No.8464724

>>8464567
It would probably be the exact same thing that happened with X360 and its HDDVD player. Games couldn't be made on the new format because they couldn't force people to buy the addon, so few people even bought it.
HDDVD lost the format war so MS abandoned that effort and everyone moved to Blu-ray. Obviously that wouldn't happen with DVD back in the days of DC/PS2, but an addon like this would be pretty pointless nonetheless.

>> No.8464748

>>8459830
Considering how easy it is to plop the GD-ROM drive out and replace it with a GDEMU, I can imagine Sega was planning a DVD drive upgrade kit for some point down the line before the whole thing was cancelled. We already know for a fact they were planning a hardware revision that could play DVD's.

>> No.8464770

>>8459887
>>8464567
Doesn't like Sony owns partial rights to the DVD format. Sega probably didn't want to loyalties to the competition. It's the same reason why the Xbox 360 used DVDs instead of Blu-ray.

>> No.8464948

>>8459830
idt so

>> No.8465260

>>8461474
>Alas, poor Sega. You fucked up.
Incorrect. For once this is the one time Sega got everything right, it's just that the momentum of past mistakes coupled with the insurmountable competition made it impossible anyway. They fucked up hard, and when they corrected, it was too late, no matter how great.

>> No.8465302

I think it's time to look past nostalgia and admit that Sega was never going to last in the console market when it published such shovelware early on, and had very few stand out IPs later on.

>> No.8466298

>>8465260
>Sega got everything right
I love Sega but have you ever used a Dreamcast controller? Es basura.

>>8465302
>and had very few stand out IPs later on
Sega did this to themselves. I have no clue why Sega didn't continue their IPSs throughout generations. It blows my mind.
Nintendo realized that every system they release needs a mario and a zelda (later a mario kart and a smash brothers). They also had metroid, donkey kong, and pokemon.
Why the fuck was there no Streets of Rage, Alex Kidd, Fantasy Zone, Space Harrier, Gunstar Heroes, Phantasy Star on Saturn? Most of these apply to Dreamcast too. Saturn didn't even get a proper Sonic game. Imagine N64 without Mario 64, that's a fucking joke.

>> No.8466336

>>8463649
Tiny white ass sits on HUGE black back

>> No.8467615

so would the proposed external DVD drive actually have been possible? did the serial or network adapter ports have enough bandwidth to read DVDs at full speed?

>> No.8467626

>>8467615
you can load games through the serial adapter now if you're interested

and it's way too fucking slow

>> No.8467628

>>8466336
Based.

>> No.8468756

>>8462436
>None of the Sony consoles have ever been considered expensive.
Someone's forgetting the PS3 costing as much as a midrange PC build.
In fact I built my first PC with the money I would have spent on a PS3 because PC gaming master race.

>> No.8468767

>>8459914
>Sega was almost $100 million in debt at its release because of the Saturn

No, they started getting into debt in 1998, but by then the Saturn was only made in limited quantities. It was the Dreamcast launch & marketing that put them in so much debt.

>> No.8468769

>>8464252
To be fair, this was because Sony was taking a giant loss on the thing. Sega was taking a ruinous hit on the Dreamcast as it was. Add DVD in the mix and there wouldn't even be a Sega anymore.

>> No.8468826

>>8460203
It didn't happen immediately. There were like 3 exploits involved separately, at first you had to use boot discs. Selfboot discs weren't available until 2000 I think, and weren't common until 2001. Plus most people had 56k modems at the time; piracy wasn't such a big deal as everyone makes it out to be.

>>8460263
>There's a lot of hearsay on the exploits' development and some of it is that a devkit was stolen somewhere.
The animation on the Utopia Bootdisk comes directly from the devkit, it was one of the developer samples.

>> No.8468842

>>8463665
>>8463662
okay, so $200 for a DVD player, or $299 for the most advanced videogame console on the market that is also a DVD player? A shitload of families had the PS2 as their first DVD player for that reason.

>> No.8468942

>>8468842
Yes, it may not have been the cheapest, but it was certainly the best value. It's an important distinction for these discussions.

>> No.8469283

>>8468826
>Plus most people had 56k modems at the time; piracy wasn't such a big deal as everyone makes it out to be.
To be fair, people were rarely using the net for piracy until broadband connections became the standard. Pirated games were just sold at flea markets and similar places before that. I don't know where you live, but here it was very popular even up until the 2010s.

>> No.8470183

>>8459830
yea, in your dream

>> No.8470201

>>8468767
legitimately one of the dumbest posts made on this website

>> No.8470567

>>8464724
This, is true. It's what happens every time there's some kind of update/expansion for a console. Very few games use the new tech because they don't want to lock out previous buyers. 32X, N64 expansion pack, "new" 3DS, etc. Only exception seems to be the "pro" refreshes for PS4/Xbone since those are basically just like having higher graphics settings in a PC game.

That said, Microsoft never actually gave a shit about HDDVD. They only put a half-assed attempt to prop it up to keep the format war going while they themselves focus on streaming, which is what actually won out over both HDDVD and BD anyway

>> No.8470590

Who cares, really? Many PS2 games were not on DVD's anyway, and it's still an order of magnitude better than what the N64 offered.
By the time games actually got huge, it was already dead.

>> No.8470608

>>8470201
>legitimately one of the dumbest posts made on this website
Why, because it's not parroting bullshit you hear on youtube? Look up the income graphs, they start losing money in the 1998 fiscal year, which is 1998 march to 1999 march - Saturn already stopped being made at that point and the Dreamcast is in full swing.

>> No.8471925

>>8470608
The dip started happening years before the DC. Just admit the Saturn was the beginning of the end for Sega, you don't need to gaslight for it because back in the day you blew $400 on a console that would end up failing miserably.

>> No.8471978

THE SILLY SQUARE WITH THE LOUD DISK DRIVE :D

>> No.8471989

>>8471925
>>8470608
Yeah, they were already losing money by 1995, which was the end of the primary Genesis life cycle. Just because it didn't dip below the red line into legal "debt" doesn't mean there wasn't a downward trend while money was still being made.

>> No.8472151

>>8461758
And there were plenty of PS2 games on CD-ROM. Sports, FPS, arcade ports or arcade-style games. DVD made a difference on huge adventure/RPG/sandbox games but not much else. 1-1.5gb was a healthy middle ground during 6th gen

>> No.8472172

>>8464252
It wasn't, but it was the new Playstation AND a DVD player. if you weren't a child you could get a decent DVD player on Black Friday 2000 for around $200

>> No.8472179
File: 36 KB, 640x394, 1619428437933.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8472179

>>8470608
>look up the income graphs
ok I did. wow look I'm right

>> No.8474317

I wish the Dreamcast had had a full life and the Xbox was never a thing. It's not fair bros... fuck the Saturn for destroying Sega's reputation.

>> No.8474332

It would have made it if Sega didn’t cancel production. Sega of Japan management was shown incompetent with the release of 32x

>> No.8474335

There should be a permanent "What if" sega thread on /vr/.
Sony and Microsoft are both conglomerate monsters, not just vidya companies. Sega and Nintendo had no chance, and it's a miracle from the heavens (as their name implies) that Nintendo are still doing their thing.

>> No.8474402

>>8474332
32X was based. Rather buy an add-on to play new 3D games on than get jew'd with expensive cartridge/GPU hybrids like Nintendo were doing. What killed Sega wasn't the 32X's release, but releasing the Saturn too soon and not giving the 32X the chance it deserved.

>> No.8474418

>>8474402
Too bad the 32x was more expensive than the surcharge on every worthwhile superfx game. Not that the 32x even had that number of games.

>> No.8474469

>>8474317
Rather fuck Sega of America for making retarded decisions that effectively killed the Saturn in the West.

>> No.8474604
File: 97 KB, 343x500, 1628065000626.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8474604

>>8474469
*ahem*

fuck the saturn

>> No.8474639

>>8474469
Nah, it was all on Sega of Japan for A) making the Saturn too complicated to develop on and B) making Saturn units insanely expensive to manufacture, both of which gave the edge to Sony and their cheaper, easier to code for Playstation. Oh, and killing off the Genesis when it was still doing well overseas was retarded too.

>> No.8474727
File: 47 KB, 960x876, 245957683_401760681582173_8267460148168252920_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8474727

>>8474639
>Oh, and killing off the Genesis when it was still doing well overseas was retarded too
Being a poor kid I was still rocking my Genesis thru out the 5th gen until getting a Dreamcast. Definitely would have loved to have some decent Genesis support in the late 90s. I think the last "new" Genesis I ever bought was Vectorman 2 which was meh.

>> No.8474739

>>8459830
Nothing about the Dreamcast mattered at the end, it was the Shiturn that killed Sega.

>> No.8474952

>>8468826

Piracy was big in cities, most places had a shady electronics store that modded consoles and sold burned discs since like 96/97.

>> No.8476432

>>8462434
Xbox is a black crossdressing Dreamcast with a shittier controller

>> No.8476835

>>8459830
No at best it would've prolonged the inevitable.

>> No.8476842

>>8459914
Dreamcast is still better than ps2, xbox and gc. Its a shame making good games isn't enough to keep you in business.

>> No.8476846

>>8476432
Xbox s while still not the best is better than dreamcasts stock controller.

>> No.8477298
File: 242 KB, 640x480, nullDC_Win32_Release-NoTrace-2019-08-22-01-22-38-22.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8477298

>>8468826
What? the rotating reindeer?

>> No.8477310

>>8477298
Yeah, exactly.

>> No.8478001

Is it worth it to get a dreamcast? I've emulated it for years and kinda want to own one for real.
I can get on a good one for like 100 dollars with no games with it

>> No.8478015

>>8478001
If you enjoy arcade-y stuff like racers, fighters and shmups, yeah. Otherwise not really.

>> No.8478016

>>8478015
Yeah most of the gsmes I play on it are the gigawing marvel capcom and dynamite cops. I'm not sure how the disc burning thing works but I could figure it out or get a ode

>> No.8478023

>>8463665
>$2000 player
Damn, how crisp did movies look on that one

>> No.8478443

>>8459830
No. What SEGA really needed was support from the big 3 developers of the time (Squaresoft, EA, Konami). There's no scenario where the PS2 doesn't win but image if EA didn't openly boycott the Dreamcast and it got SSX as originally planned, Castlevania Resurrection wasn't cancelled, and Squaresoft ported Final Fantasy 8 and 9.

>> No.8478450

>>8459830
>If it supported DVDs was it going to make it bros?
no

>> No.8478737

>>8466336
Sega is for negress lovers? Based if true desu

>> No.8478985

>>8461085
Then don't include support for those platforms.

>> No.8479036

>>8460147
I think that was originally the plan. Didn't the Saturn use a motorola 68k as its sound controller, in the same way that the Genesis used a zilog z80? That's why the genesis is BC with the sega system so I think it's probable that the same reasoning was behind including a 68k in the saturn.

>> No.8479045

>>8478001
I'd say so, yeah. From what I hear 100 bucks isn't that bad of a deal these days. Just make sure it's a v0 or v1 that can play burned games (check the label on the bottom, the circled number, v2 is bad)
Don't bother buying any games. Just use CD-Rs or an ODE. the prices on basically everything are insane because arcadefags ruin everything that's a shmup, fighting game, anything by capcom, etc

Also if you have any friends that enjoy stuff like this, DC has a ton of great multiplayer games

>> No.8479097

>>8479045
Alright cool thanks for the advice

>> No.8479107

>>8479097
oh, forgot to mention. Make sure it actually reads games. Dreamcasts after all these years are prone to having lasers wear out and no longer able to read discs. If you're buying in person make sure to test it and make sure it doesn't have any reading problems. If it's on ebay just make sure to check the description; so long as it's not being advertised as broken/for-parts though you should be protected and ebay will refund you if the seller tried to scam you with a lemon.

>> No.8479149
File: 66 KB, 500x690, 1354301d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8479149

No
It was canceled because it was too fun

>> No.8479231

>>8479107
Its from a retrostore ran by nerds tbqh. I stopped buying shit online or from randoms a while ago. But that makes sense man those old lasers can only last so long.