/vr/ - Retro Games

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Anonymous Fri Jul 23 00:22:20 2021 No.7972103 [Reply] [Original]

On a purely theoretical level, which was most and least powerful in different departments?

I've been told that the PS2 supposedly has a really powerful CPU, though this seems to be the case only if you include the VU, and even then, going by FLOPS, it's only marginally higher than that of the Xbox (both very close to 3 GFLOPS.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 00:35:14 2021 No.7972124 Xbox > GCN > PS2

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 00:50:26 2021 No.7972139

>>7972103
The Gamecube was actually quite a technical achievement. It had a large cache and extremely low memory latency, probably as a response to developers bitching about the horrible latency on the N64.

I once met a software engineer who argued that the PS2 was theoretically more powerful than the Gamecube, but "it never managed to achieve that potential because nobody ever bothered optimizing for it". But to me, this just means that the Gamecube is the de facto most powerful console. The best GC games look better than the best PS2 games.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 00:53:47 2021 No.7972145 >>7972139 I always associate the GameCube with warm, beautiful looking water. It’s a very summertime consoles.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 00:54:45 2021 No.7972147 >>7972124 Pretty much

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 00:56:59 2021 No.7972154 why is the ps2 so weak bros

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 00:57:13 2021 No.7972156

>>7972139
The price and size of the Gamecube alone are testaments to its engineering merit.
It's not as flexible as the competition, but it doesn't need to be, because it knows exactly what it needs to do, and it does that well. One example of its shortcoming is with the water in Baldur's Gate. The PS2 and Xbox both have enough programmable floating point grunt to deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 00:58:36 2021 No.7972159 >>7972154 Supposedly was a bitch to program for

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:00:34 2021 No.7972167 >>7972159 makes you wonder how it ended up with the most games and how most ended up being fairly bug-free

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:02:31 2021 No.7972171 >>7972167 Everyone had one because it was also a fairly cheap dvd player, so it had by default the largest install base.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:04:01 2021 No.7972173 >>7972167 It wasn't hard to get working per se, just to optimize for. The performance seen in many ports from the PC speaks for itself.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:04:19 2021 No.7972175 >>7972167 There were a metric fuckload of buggy shovelware games on the PS2. It’s just that they get filtered out and forgotten over time and we only remember the good stuff.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:05:16 2021 No.7972176 >>7972175 fair, probably true i want to see a compilation of the truly worst shit shoveled on there to highlight how everyone and their grandma were making ps2 games same with ps1 really

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:06:14 2021 No.7972180 Xbox was the most powerful. GCN and PS2 would never be able to run 480p Ninja Gaiden Black at 60fps

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:24:20 2021 No.7972203 >>7972180 You sure about that? https://youtu.be/xo6kOr52FYk

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:27:11 2021 No.7972207 >>7972167 trust me bro I saw the mvg video it was hard to develop for

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:35:24 2021 No.7972218 >>7972203 This gay game is not as demanding as NG. Sorry furfag

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:37:31 2021 No.7972223 >>7972203 I love how silky smooth Gamecube games are.

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 01:55:50 2021 No.7972251

>>7972103
It's interesting how GC's 485 MHz RISC chip was beaten by Xbox's 700 MHz x86 CPU. Aren't RISC processors supposed to be more efficient than x86? I guess Xbox's geforce 3 is just a lot more powerful.

>>7972180
>>7972203
Neither of them are technically impressive games though. Almost every multiplat game runs the best on the Xbox, and the GC could never run Morrowind. Also, Star Fox was programmed by Amiga trained European tech wizards while Ninja Gaiden was programmed by a bunch of random japanese nobodies. They're simply not comparable.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 02:13:17 2021 No.7972285 >>7972218 Of course it's not demanding when it has been optimized :^)

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 02:17:59 2021 No.7972291 >>7972251 That Pentium 3 cost $776 at launch. Go figure. Besides, that huge difference in clock just goes to show that it IS efficient.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 02:22:25 2021 No.7972302 >>7972291 Well, my point is games perform significantly better on the xbox too. Compare that to how in the 90s the PS1 could run Quake with its 30 MHz CPU while the much faster i486 and Pentium I couldn't.

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 02:29:04 2021 No.7972312

>>7972302
Multiplats do, sure, but it's not surprising considering PC optimizations easily translate to Xbox optimizations. However, take two similar exclusives, Starfox and Conker. The former runs better.

>Compare that to how in the 90s the PS1 could run Quake with its 30 MHz CPU while the much faster i486 and Pentium I couldn't.

T-the Pentium 1? Literally THE Quake processor.
Besides, that has nothing to do with the CPU and everything to do with hardware acceleration.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 02:51:37 2021 No.7972340 >>7972312 >The former runs better Conker has better graphics and more complex physics though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 02:56:48 2021 No.7972346 >>7972340 And I can only assume they did that because they couldn't get it running at 60 FPS and instead opted to use the headroom for more flair.

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 03:05:08 2021 No.7972357

>>7972346
Not really. I'm sure it would run 60 fps without the dynamic shading, Conker's complex fur geometry, realistic water effects, and so on. I mean, Star Fox Adventure looks great but fundamentally it's not much of a leap from, say, Sonic Adventure.

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 03:21:14 2021 No.7972381

>>7972103
Xbox is by far the most powerful console of that generation. It had the best CPU, the best GPU in terms of features and speed, the most RAM, and was a familiar architecture without many notable bottlenecks. This is simply not in question.

The Gamecube and PS2 traded blows depending on what you wanted to do and how well you could optimise.
The Gamecube had better texture compression, low latency memory, and plenty of cache. The PS2 was the opposite in all of those respects. The Gamecube shared its main memory with the GPU while the PS2 had very small but very fast dedicated GPU memory. The size of it limited texture complexity and render resolution. These problems could be offset somewhat by clever use of the DMA engine. Gamecube didn't have to worry about that at all, it just werked out of the box.
The Gamecube also had a lot of interesting things it could do with texture environment unit. It isn't quite a pixel shader but could do similar things. The PS2 just had a very dumb very fast rasteriser instead.
The main places the Gamecube falls short compared to the PS2 are in SIMD and fillrate. The PS2's VU1 is used for T&L and is very capable and flexible while the Gamecube has a fixed function T&L unit. PS2 could do more with geometry than Gamecube. VU0 could accelerate whatever else you wanted to do with vectors, like physics. Gamecube had SIMD instructions in its CPU but they were half the width so it wasn't nearly as fast or useful. And having so much fillrate lets you do tons of transparency or other creative effects.
The multiplat would nearly always run better on Gamecube because you'd basically have to rebuild your whole engine to take advantage of what the PS2 offered. You can't gut a physics engine from one platform's release of your game but you can pretty easily downscale textures and cut the resolution.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 04:05:44 2021 No.7972419 >>7972124 Gc had no games Ps2 has the best library Xbox looks good less blur If you're that obsessed just get them all

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 04:30:14 2021 No.7972443 >>7972103 hmmm, yes, i concur ;)

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 05:47:30 2021 No.7972557
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Graphics comparison is hamstrung by fact people don't know what these consoles looked like on CRT. Play ps2 and GC games on a CRT and you see how great their graphics were. Don't bother looking at photos taken of CRT screens, it looks totally shit and different to real life. There's non of the jaggedy pixelation you get on modern TVs on things like tree leaves on CRT like people think when playing PS2 emu on modern screens, or plugging their PS2 into modern TV. Games like F Zero GX really weren't improved upon by PS3 and Wii, even on some Ps4 games. It's what you do with the teck that counts.

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 05:57:42 2021 No.7972578
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>>7972557
but saying that, if you emulate and crank up the resolution, you're getting better quality in many ways, but still poorer image in terms of blur compared to CRT.

I personally don't think PS2 can produce things that look as good as some things on GC on an aesthstic level, colour wise.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 06:15:21 2021 No.7972589 >>7972578 Crank up the resolution and then downsample and display it on a CRT TV. Best of both worlds.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 06:26:34 2021 No.7972604 >>7972589 connecting PC/emulation to CRT is near impossible, the cheap hdmi to rgb things on ebay are only transmitting at composite levels or something

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 06:33:44 2021 No.7972613 >>7972604 that's why you use a video card that supports 15khz

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 06:43:05 2021 No.7972625 File: 8 KB, 300x200, Laugh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7972557 >CRTs are magic There's a reason everyone literally threw those shitboxes to the curb.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 06:50:32 2021 No.7972628 >>7972251 >muh ameegur Shut the fuck up already

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 07:09:56 2021 No.7972656 >>7972628 holy shit, seethe

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 07:15:40 2021 No.7972662 >>7972656 >seethe Whose kid is this? Anybody? Hey, somebody's kid got lost on the way to /v/.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 08:45:49 2021 No.7972772 >>7972662 >projecting this hard

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 09:26:34 2021 No.7972842

>>7972103
>PS2
+very powerful CPU that could really shine through some programmer autism
+DVD drive
-weaker GPU and sound hardware
-hardware was a pain in the ass for non-autistic developers, PS2 multiplats were often the worst as a result

>Gamecube
+great GPU and fast RAM
+dev-friendly PowerPC architecture and strong CPU
-mini-DVD drive bottlenecked data streaming possibilities
-virtually nonexistant online functionality
-fewer buttons on controller

>Xbox
+very strong CPU and GPU, piece of cake to develop for thanks to standard PC architecture, best version of most multiplats as a result
+robust online functionality
-could have used just a bit more RAM

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 09:31:48 2021 No.7972858 >>7972842 nearly everything you just said was wrong

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 09:39:57 2021 No.7972872

>>7972103
i had a ps2 for years and just got an xbox, most of the multiplat stuff ive played like the max paynes is fucking laughable how much better it is on xbox graphically, framerate, analog sticks, loading times, its like different games.

>>7972167
sonys talent was marketing and they won the market, devs go where the money is and just stick it out.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 09:41:05 2021 No.7972874 >>7972203 jesus imagine being a fully gown adult playing this adventures of furry homosex.

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 09:44:07 2021 No.7972880

>>7972557
this is retarded and ass backwards, its more that hdtvs highlight how shit the graphics were where as crts mask it with there dynamic resolutions.

>>7972625
that reason was marketing and being dumb, crts and big and ass heavy but the image quality dicked everything from the lcd market for many many years and still has more dynamic resolution compared to hdtv and there fixed res shit shows that make everything lower res look like minecraft

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 09:48:25 2021 No.7972885 >>7972103 gamecube shits the bed the moment you're doing anything not related to high poly counts xbox shits the bed the moment you're doing anything transparent ps2 shits the bed when you're a lazy shitdev

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 09:50:53 2021 No.7972890 >>7972885 gamecube polycounts weren't particularly high. A lot of rooms in Metroid Prime are pretty simple in terms of geometry, relative to their texture detail. Those textures are where the GC really excels.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 09:52:53 2021 No.7972896 >>7972890 gamecube could do really impressive closets especially if you don't use a lot of textures

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 14:24:37 2021 No.7973469

>>7972604
it's not near impossible lmao you're simply clueless about the subject
>>7972557
completely wrong, you'll still see plenty of aliasing on CRTs. They help because they're designed to display that content at its native resolution. Xbox games look decent on an LCD since all output 480p and some even do 720p. 6th gen threads would be fine on this board if they weren't ruined with idiots posting nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 16:47:55 2021 No.7973938 >>7972842 >Could have used a bit more RAM >Has the most RAM of them all ???

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 16:59:36 2021 No.7973975 >>7972885 ps2 shits the best in performance, poor framerates all over the place.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 17:00:14 2021 No.7973978 File: 290 KB, 1366x624, 148267293653.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7972124 >Xbox > GCN > PS2 False Factual: Xbox > PS2 > GCN > DC

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 17:08:03 2021 No.7974008 >>7973978 >50% throughput >Physics So probably tons of floating point math without involving the VU1, equivalent to 1.5 GFLOPS at most, short of the Gamecube's rated 1.9 GFLOP CPU. Excuse me if I think this sounds fishy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 17:22:30 2021 No.7974045 >>7972604 >what's a transcoder?

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 17:30:13 2021 No.7974068

>>7974008
The Gamecube's 1.9GFLOP rate for float SIMD would be if you're running nothing but multiply-accumulate or variations of that instruction. Performance halves if you need to do anything else. The T&L unit achieves similarly unrepresentative performance if you only consider a particular combination of instructions like that.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 17:35:59 2021 No.7974082 >>7974068 Doesn't the same apply to the PS2? It has more than twice the FLOPS of the clock frequency times the number of SIMD components.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 17:44:05 2021 No.7974109 >>7974082 I thought I was right based on envelope math but I was mistaken because I just found that the VUs operate at half the clock frequency of the EE core.

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 18:00:55 2021 No.7974143

>>7974109
That's what I read too, but the math doesn't seem to add up. If we go by the ~300 MHz of the CPU, we get 600 operations with a combined MUL and ADD. Do that for each vector component, and we are up to 2.4 GFLOPS. There's also some odd 0.04 special function on top, adding up to the advertised 2.44 GFLOP VU0.

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 18:24:28 2021 No.7974208

>>7972842
>-mini-DVD drive bottlenecked data streaming possibilities
Which was near non-existent in sixth gen in the first place. On top of that, mini-DVD was one of the main reasons GCN's loading time was so low, because of the low seek time.

>>7973938
I think he's trying to say that RAM was the biggest limiting factor of the xbox's overall hardware setup, which is kinda true but at the same time virtually no console actually has lots of RAM. Xbox had a good amount of RAM for its time by console standards.

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 18:27:04 2021 No.7974218

6th gen games that run at a steady 60fps look great to this day on CRTs. The advantage of not losing detail from objects moving quickly on the screen is significant enough that you basically have to make things higher resolution in order for them to look acceptable on modern displays. Something like Outrun 2 probably still looks better on its original 480p arcade monitor than whatever soulless PC version made to run at 4K would

Anonymous Fri Jul 23 18:33:35 2021 No.7974236

>>7973978
Meanwhile you just simplify the physics (just make the car models simpler as they crumple, it's not hard) and the physics model is suddenly viable on the GCN.

Yeah people will complain, but given that Criterion was a 100% PS2 dev in their minds this shouldn't bother them. Also this isn't the reason Burnout 3 wasn't on GCN like this dev claims, EA was strongly thinking about abandoning ship with the GCN by the middle of the generation, and even considered dropping Madden off the console.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 18:34:00 2021 No.7974237 >>7972103 PS2 has the most flexible architecture of them Xbox probably has the most powerful cpu

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 18:41:27 2021 No.7974252 How many triangles can they output at max capacity? What bottlenecks them?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 21:28:37 2021 No.7974665 >>7972154 came out a year earlier

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 21:30:31 2021 No.7974675 >>7972842 >could have used just a bit more RAM You could use the harddrive to offload some of the game's data though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 21:41:33 2021 No.7974702 >>7972419 >gc had no games fake news

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 21:45:45 2021 No.7974712 >>7974702 The ps2 had over 4000 games, the xbox had over 1000, and the GC only had less than 700.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 21:46:39 2021 No.7974718 >>7972103 Xbox >>>>>>>>> GCN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS2 >DC Though DC has the most 480p titles. Weak ps2 couldn't do more than a few percent. Xbox has many games above 480p. Cube has half the library at 480p.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 21:48:14 2021 No.7974720 >>7973978 You forgot to post the part with the lead dev admits the cube couldn't do it "because we were lazy". It wasn't capability, it was changing too much and they were lazy fucks. Xbox powers through the ps2 designed games.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 21:49:16 2021 No.7974726 >>7974712 Thousands of shovelware games that would be delegated to steam green light or limited run games now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 21:50:42 2021 No.7974734 >>7974712 that doesnt mean it "had no games" you fucking mong. keep in mind that the majority of those 4000 ps2 "games" are shovelware or movie tie ins. the gamecube had shovelware for sure but to say it had "no games" is just bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 22:24:33 2021 No.7974798 >>7974726 >>7974734 Holy cope.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 23:07:49 2021 No.7974915 >>7974718 Can't you force 480p with hacked consoles?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 23:21:08 2021 No.7974946 File: 329 KB, 3620x918, Burnout 3 LARP.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7973978 Not a real quote from the game's developer.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 23:24:44 2021 No.7974950 >>7974946 >people can't move somewhere else

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 23 23:25:52 2021 No.7974953 >>7974950 Hi Rusty. You aren't the lead programmer for Burnout 3.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 24 01:42:19 2021 No.7975202 >>7974950 He is not Richard. https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?26634-PS2-vs-Dreamcast-Graphics&p=637476#post637476 Unless he is a schizo and refers to himself in third-person.

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 02:28:56 2021 No.7975269

>>7974915
On PS2, not always. For GameCube and Xbox, and Hell, even the Dreamcast, render output was at the hardware / bios level.

With the PS2, like many of its idiosyncrasies, it was something you had to manually build into the binary. Sure there were certain system calls to inform the general refresh and signal output, but actual resolution, framebuffer, and fuck, even the way that one might render out interlaced fields, all had to be built into the software binary.

The benefit of this is that you can do totally wild and arbitrary output, and even do things that save on total pixel rendering by only rendering alternating fields, effectively getting 480 lines with a 240 line budget, but it also means that devs had to program anything beyond the bare minimum. This is actually one of the major benefits of middleware of this generation, in that it gives your game a baseline for video output options.

So on PS2, if a game isn't explicitly designed with a true 480 line framebuffer, it can't be forced to 480p. Even then, depending on how the game boots and when those render checks are, you might not be able to force it, because each game is different.

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 04:18:08 2021 No.7975441

>>7974143
Each VU executes a high and low instruction per cycle, high is standard fmac stuff and low is a grab bag of generic stuff like integer ops, scalar float division, branching. That would probably be the extra .04.
In macro mode you can only use the high instruction, which frankly accounts for the vast majority of performance, so the "50% throughput" statement was probably an exaggeration.

>>7974236
That's not physics. Crumpling all those car models is a geometry thing. If you play Burnout 3 and Burnout Legends back to back you can feel how much the physics had to be simplified.

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 07:10:03 2021 No.7975638

>>7975441
>so the "50% throughput" statement was probably an exaggeration.

The guy seems to talk quite a lot about the VU in the forum, so one should really expect better than that.

What about the Xbox? I can't find reliable info on how many programmable non-pixel FLOPS it has.

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 07:34:51 2021 No.7975679

>>7975638
>What about the Xbox? I can't find reliable info on how many programmable non-pixel FLOPS it has.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_III#Pentium_III's_SSE_implementation
>To achieve this goal, Intel implemented the 128-bit architecture by double-cycling the existing 64-bit data paths and by merging the SIMD-FP multiplier unit with the x87 scalar FPU multiplier into a single unit. To utilize the existing 64-bit data paths, Katmai issues each SIMD-FP instruction as two μops.
>Katmai-specific SSE optimizations yielded the best possible performance from the Pentium III family but was suboptimal for Coppermine onwards as well as future Intel processors, such as the Pentium 4 and Core series.
It's not explicit, but this suggests that the Coppermine CPU in the Xbox has an internal 128-bit datapath that will complete a SIMD operation in one cycle with one uop. SSE1 doesn't seem to have any multiply-add instruction and if it did it'd be multiple uops anyway, so one per cycle seems to be right.
So 4 ops each cycle at 733MHz would come to 2.9GFLOPS, which sounds plausible, but don't quote me on it.

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 10:41:19 2021 No.7975958

>>7975679
>2.9 GFLOPS
Gotta love how Sega zealots pretend that this number doesn't exist and rely on results from practical tests to pit against their theoretical Dreamcast numbers.

Anyway, I was more perplexed by the GPU. I know that NVIDIA chips before the G80 were vector based rather than scalar, so you can't just count its vertex shaders and call it a day.

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 10:45:02 2021 No.7975962

>>7975958
>Gotta love how Sega zealots pretend that this number doesn't exist and rely on results from practical tests to pit against their theoretical Dreamcast numbers.
If you're talking about segaretro they bungle tech specifications a lot. You will find a lot of the figures they list are unrepresentative or have asterisks attached that they don't tell you about.
But like I said this is just envelope math so it's possible I could be off.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 24 17:32:04 2021 No.7976691 File: 39 KB, 725x324, 20130306_27.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7972145 I always associated the PS2 with transparency effects and smoke. the bios is also peak comfy background noise

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 17:36:52 2021 No.7976707

The xbox was the most powerful but the best looking games were on ps2 due to how much effort devs put in to it. Even today I'm rather impressed at how good FF10 and mgs3 look on ps2

Then you have the dc, which is the least powerful but somehow pulls off miracles like shenmue.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 24 17:56:05 2021 No.7976741 >>7972103 Dreamcast

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 24 18:20:23 2021 No.7976789 File: 7 KB, 331x152, xbox.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7976691 I always associated the Xbox with shiny bumpy surfaces and dramatic shadows.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 24 18:21:29 2021 No.7976793 >>7976741 t. segaretro.org

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 18:44:45 2021 No.7976849

>>7976707
I agree that stylistically games on PS2 looked better because of effort from developers, but Xbox has better graphics technically. I remember seeing a racing game on Xbox and being blown away by the textures, resolution, and frame rate; PS2 had nothing like it.

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 18:52:20 2021 No.7976862

>>7976849
>Frame rate
>Resolution
Gran Turismo 4 runs at 60 FPS and can do 480p and some upscaled 1080i. Doesn't really get much better than that.

And it looks amazing too. Arguably better than some Xbox titles as it doesn't suffer from excessive bloom and oversaturation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 24 20:25:38 2021 No.7977037 File: 29 KB, 480x360, 1579732772227.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7976789 honestly, same. OG halo with its reflective maps on everything come to mind.

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 21:05:24 2021 No.7977128
File: 256 KB, 1600x900, 192140223;jpg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7972103
PS2 came out about a year and a half before xbox and gc, and still did impressive things that its rivals couldn't. This is the only hardware feat of the 6th gen and the reason why the question "which was most powerful" cannot be answered.
Sony engineers were something out of this world.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 24 21:59:53 2021 No.7977210 >>7977128 >and still did impressive things that its rivals couldn't Some of its games had nice graphical effects, but xbox and gc were simply more powerful and more optimized for everything else.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 24 22:27:33 2021 No.7977275 >>7977128 Is there a reason why PS2 could do effects better than the other systems? I was watching a video about MGS2 and it had a graphics comparison, the Xbox version was missing effects.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 24 22:35:13 2021 No.7977290 >>7977275 things that were expensive on other platforms were free or almost free thanks to PS2's insane bandwidth, almost every shader style effect on the PS2 is achieved with sheer brute force

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 22:39:10 2021 No.7977303
File: 749 KB, 1891x720, Crash.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7977128
In Wrath of Cortex, the GC version is missing a bunch of effects. The Xbox version is not as bad as the GC version, but the effects are toned down or different from the PS2 version. I'd make add a pic of the Xbox version but Xbox emulation isn't good enough yet.

Anonymous Sat Jul 24 22:48:53 2021 No.7977321
File: 2.96 MB, 1920x1080, Silent Hill 2 fog.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

In Silent Hill 2 the fog moves all around the screen like a natural wind is blowing it in the PS2 version. On the Xbox version it looks like there's a fog machine blowing behind the character.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 01:01:01 2021 No.7977504 >>7977321 Does the Xbox not have a secret sauce when it comes to transparencies? Shader-based fog?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 01:24:29 2021 No.7977528 >>7974712 The /v/ meme doesn't apply here.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 01:46:27 2021 No.7977541

The Xbox had pixel shading and can in theory do most of the stuff that modern consoles can (the first game with deferred rendering - Shrek - was an Xbox exclusive, for instance). The PS2 relying on multi-pass rendering for so many of its capabilities meant that its fill rate was crazy; Gran Turismo 5 had to take objects out that were present in GT4. The GC was somewhere in the middle, it could do some things the PS2 couldn't but wasn't quite as fast.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 01:58:53 2021 No.7977558 >>7977303 all this tells me is that the people making this bad game, were in fact, bad at making games

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 02:03:24 2021 No.7977564 >>7977504 The Xbox is better at transparencies and this looks like a bug flat out. No one likely noticed it in testing and the PS2 was the primary platform

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 02:03:52 2021 No.7977565 >>7972171 DVD man, that made the boomers buy the PS2 by default.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 02:07:40 2021 No.7977573 >>7972302 My Pentium 1 MMX laptop gets 84fps on the Quake timedemo3. I’m not digging the PlayStation but the Pentium was vastly more powerful with a price to match.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 02:43:25 2021 No.7977615
File: 740 KB, 2000x1312, 194201311.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7977565
Never seen and am yet to see a person who watched movies on ps2.
Imagine trying to convince your parents to buy a PS2 and claiming that it can play DVD movies too. Sounds like a child's cheap talk to get the toy that he wants. Stubborn parents of the 2000s wouldn't fall for that.
PSX sold 105 million. all these people would definitely like to upgrade to ps2.
The same logic applies for the N64: 30m people had it, which is why the GC sold around that number aswell.
Same logic for the Dreamcast.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 04:37:57 2021 No.7977735

>>7977615
>your parents
Average age of gamers back then was in their 20s. Dreamcast had one of the most successful launches of all time but due to the ps2 advertising that it had dvd and be ultra powerful the sales died down as people prefered to wait until the ps2 was released. A lot of people did get the ps2 for its dvd player too since it was actually cheaper than dvd players upon release.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 04:52:58 2021 No.7977760 >>7977564 >The Xbox is better at transparencies If there's anything the PS2 is good at, it's alpha blending. Don't know where you got the idea that the Xbox was superior at that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 04:54:25 2021 No.7977761 >>7977615 >Imagine trying to convince your parents to buy a PS2 and claiming that it can play DVD movies too. I did that and they didn't believe me. My dad bought a DVD player and just one DVD that year.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 05:03:50 2021 No.7977773 >>7977735 >Average age of gamers back then was in their 20s Oh hell no, that's factually wrong. You can just look at a video of a Quake tournament to tell these are in their late teens.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 05:26:00 2021 No.7977793 >>7977735 >Average age of gamers back then was in their 20s This user is underage Youn eed to go back

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 05:30:20 2021 No.7977798 >>7977793 What are you talking about you crackhead? When the PS2 came out the average gamer was in his 20s. When GTA4 came out the average age was something like 33.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 05:42:10 2021 No.7977810 File: 48 KB, 555x827, average age of gamers 2005.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7977793 >>7977798 It was 33 in 2005

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 05:53:14 2021 No.7977820 >>7977615 Man I bought that Orphen game thinking it'd be like the anime. It was not.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 07:33:41 2021 No.7977943 >>7977615 The PS2 doubled as the family DVD player for years. When I moved out, I got an Xbox with the media remote to watch movies on that too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 08:02:54 2021 No.7977973 >>7972207 It was hard at first because Sony didn't release decent tools for the system. Otherwise using everything to their advantage when the architecture was fully utilized helped put out great games.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 08:10:03 2021 No.7977978

>>7972251
The racism towards the Japanese will never cease to make me laugh, but only because they're always better at everything than everyone and Brits and Americans can only seethe. The GC was clearly a far more optimized console, like anything the Japanese do. Morrowind had to constantly restart the xbox in order to work, it was that much of a mess.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 08:11:27 2021 No.7977980 >>7977978 I respect the Japanese but this post is incredibly cringe.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 08:58:56 2021 No.7978028

>>7977978
>Morrowind had to constantly restart the xbox in order to work
Yes, and it wouldn't even run on the GC. The original PC game requires 256MB of RAM and the XBox did an impressive job of running it on a mere 64MB of RAM.
>It was that much of a mess.
Rebooting the console during loading wasn't something only Morrowind did. The XBox offloads some of the game data into the hard drive and reboots itself to clear the unneeded cache and memory. It's not a mess, it's an optimization technique, and the reason xbox had bigger and more complex games than both the PS2 and GC.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:09:37 2021 No.7978040

>>7977978
>Morrowind had to constantly restart the xbox in order to work, it was that much of a mess.
It did that to reclaim RAM. Deus Ex Invisible War did the same thing.
The Gamecube had less than half the usable RAM as the Xbox. Those games would never have run on the Gamecube.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:15:43 2021 No.7978056 >>7978040 >The Gamecube had less than half the usable RAM as the Xbox And no disk drive. Rebooting the console worked for the Xbox because it could prefetch the data into the HDD. It was a smart design decision.

noko Sun Jul 25 09:18:41 2021 No.7978059

>>7977037
it was always the little increments of new tech that I remember.
>Mario 3 - Sloped floors
>Mario Kart - 3D floors
>Doom - Full 3D levels
>Final Fantasy 9 - 3D Models over FMV
>Unreal tournament - Hi resolution water animation
>Hitman - Realistic ragdoll physics

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:18:43 2021 No.7978060 >>7977798 >>7977810 Do zoom zooms really believe this bullshit?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:18:46 2021 No.7978061 Gamecube uses custom hardware genetically engineered by Japanese master for gaming. While the xbox is just a cheap generic PC made for excel office work and web browsing

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:20:33 2021 No.7978065 >>7978056 Rebooting had nothing to do with the hard disk drive - though the hard disk drive did allow Xbox games to be more complex too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:23:43 2021 No.7978074 >>7978061 >Gamecube uses custom hardware genetically engineered by Japanese master for gaming. Gamecube was a generic powerpc cpu paired with a generic ati (actually artx) gpu.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:26:01 2021 No.7978081 >>7978061 gamecube was literally a mac pc with nintendo games

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:26:17 2021 No.7978084 >>7978060 You're shit at baiting.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:28:38 2021 No.7978086 >>7972156 Everyone keeps parroting the wrong information. Probably because some YouTube celebrity used an old version of dolphin. The gamecube version has the deformable water ripples and they look the same as the other versions of the game.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 09:37:56 2021 No.7978094 >>7978086 Correct the record with a capture.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 15:28:05 2021 No.7978731 >>7977810 >source: my ass This is why no one outside of /t/ards cares about infographics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 15:44:55 2021 No.7978771 >>7972124 That's about right. I finally got my hands on a fat PS2 from work, fixed it up and it seems to work alright. Anyone got any recommendations?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 15:49:03 2021 No.7978781 >>7978771 ratchet and clank in release order. skip dead locked and secret agent clank. size matters is ok.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 16:01:05 2021 No.7978806 >>7978771 r-type final gradius v

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 16:05:18 2021 No.7978818 >>7977573 GlQuake? Pretty much all the software tests on Pentiums were below 60 FPS.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 16:06:26 2021 No.7978820

The only problem with the Gamecube was that it used a proprietary miniDVD-based format that could only hold 1.4GB as opposed to the 4GB on Xbox and PS2 DVDs, so you had to pay for more discs if you wanted to store as large as a game, on top of the Nintendo tax since it was a proprietary format and not just regular miniDVDs.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 16:27:13 2021 No.7978883 >>7978086 >>7978094 https://youtu.be/7CsZQ71PgyQ?t=6785 https://youtu.be/zJaNc8kCr6U?t=2408 >Look the same

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 16:37:53 2021 No.7978925 >>7978781 Deadlocked is really good.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 16:51:47 2021 No.7978956

>>7977810
The source for this is the ESA, and they're literally counting anyone who played Solitaire on their work computer as a gamer.

It's like saying someone who bought a picture frame and left the placeholder photo in there is an art collector.

>>7978820
Mini-DVDs were trivially cheap for publishers to pay for and the only games that needed more than 1.4GB were literally just GTA3 and (mostly story based) linear games that can easily fit on 2 discs. MGS:TS being multidisc is a non issue.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 16:58:55 2021 No.7978965 >>7973978 >PS2 > GCN lol

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 17:23:00 2021 No.7979006
File: 79 KB, 547x833, games.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7978731
it's princeton university
https://library.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/2006.pdf
>>7978956
>ESA
Unless that stands for princeton university then no. Also it's clear from reading the study it's about people playing run-of-the-mill console and pc games

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 17:26:05 2021 No.7979015 >>7978883 It's not the same area, bud. It looks very much the same on gamecube.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 17:29:38 2021 No.7979020
File: 115 KB, 563x835, games.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7979006
>Unless that stands for princeton university then no
My bad, it is published by princeton university but in partnership with ESA. My point still stands though, nowhere does it say anything about Solitaire and it's clear from the top sales section that their focus is typical video games

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 18:42:13 2021 No.7979178

>>7979020
>>7979006
Nope, it's just people playing Solitaire at work on their computer. These are bullshit numbers put together by the ESA, anyone can do this. It's advertising for their industry in general so shit like Jack Thompson stop having relevant political voices.

A lot of these companies were active in the media during these years, like when Fox News said a bunch of retarded feminist shit about Mass Effect and EA issued a public letter calling Fox News out for bad reporting.

You're posting inflated numbers that don't mean anything. The average person buying games is 40? That's because kids can't and don't buy most of their video games.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 19:47:07 2021 No.7979336 >>7979015 Undeniably a difference in ripple max frequency. https://youtu.be/zJaNc8kCr6U?t=2180 https://youtu.be/7CsZQ71PgyQ?t=1365 Inb4 coping again by saying it doesn't count because it's multiplayer.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 22:20:44 2021 No.7979660 >>7973938 The fact that you have to hardmod the OG Xbox to add more RAM to it in order for it to play Virtua Cop 3 speaks volumes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 22:25:06 2021 No.7979663 >>7979660 That's an unreleased game that wasn't optimized yet.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 22:32:41 2021 No.7979669 >>7978956 >the only games that needed more than 1.4GB were literally just GTA3 Yes, and all the other GTA games. By having no space for GTA the GC was losing hard.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 23:10:37 2021 No.7979724 >>7974712 >More = better Anon most of those games on PS2 were shovelware. The Wii had the same problem.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 23:22:35 2021 No.7979747 >>7979660 No? Dev kits have more ram than the consoles they're for. That alpha build of the game is running of bunch of random shit on top of the game that is for development purposes. It probably runs fine on a dev kit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 23:23:35 2021 No.7979750 >>7979669 Nah, GTA3 and its two sequels were the only free roaming games worth a shit that gen.

Anonymous Sun Jul 25 23:54:49 2021 No.7979814

The systems were close enough in power that you could release an identical-looking game across all 3 systems and no one would complain. Even the Xbox's novel graphics pipeline wasn't actually used that often. After gen 5 there stopped being any reason to buy a console based on its hardware.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 23:56:48 2021 No.7979823 File: 190 KB, 800x1141, armed-and-dangerous-xbox-front-cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7979750 >implying

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 25 23:58:13 2021 No.7979825 >>7979814 lmao no. Only games with A-tier talent and budget could make PS2 games look as good as GCN, and Xbox would always beat them both.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:00:52 2021 No.7979832 >>7979825 It's always theory vs practice with these fucking consoles. Same with ps3 vs 360. What you could do vs how easy it is to do it. Which platforms got the best optimized ports.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:02:35 2021 No.7979838 File: 212 KB, 800x1135, scrapland.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7979814 There are tons of games the Xbox could run that the GC and PS2 couldn't.

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:04:31 2021 No.7979843

>>7979832
Not really, no. With the GCN and Xbox most devs spent their time actually making the game whereas with the PS2 they had to both make the game and then figure out optimization just to get reasonable performance out of the thing.

For most consoles, that's not how it works.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:07:35 2021 No.7979851 >>7979823 This had some funny british banter dialogue but after citizen kabuto and the death of andy aster it felt like the team lost the edge to push the envelope.

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:07:42 2021 No.7979852

>>7979843
That's how consoles always worked especially in regards to porting shit. What can and can not be done depends on how talented the people working on it are and how much time/money you give them to do their thing. Modern development targets multiplatform from the start so it's a bit different. It was still an issue on 360/PS3 but not like before.

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:12:51 2021 No.7979863

>>7979852

The 360 and PS3 each got shafted with different ports but for most games it came down to the PS3 running at a slightly lower resolution, dropping a couple more frames but having better AA. The systems took completely different paths to get within 5% of each other. So it is with the 6th gen systems, or at least the GC and PS2

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:13:43 2021 No.7979865 >>7979852 You absolutely couldn't run KOTOR, Halo, Fable, Doom 3, Riddick, and HL2 on the GC and PS2.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:20:07 2021 No.7979885 >>7972154 weak console for weak gamers

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:20:19 2021 No.7979886

>>7979852
Again, not really, no. The 360 in particular was simple to port to. PS3 was also different from PS2 because it was easy to get something work on PS2, it was just hard to get it working well or in a state that looked good. It was actually a shitload of work to get anything working at all on PS3 unless you just let the CPU decide everything, in which case it'd run at an unacceptable framerate even if you set the graphics down to PS2 levels.

Look, this is how it usually works. You have an arcade game and want to make SNES and Genesis ports? Well it's going to be hard to get the Genesis to sound good compared to the SNES version. Can you make it sound good? Yes, is it going to happen? Pretty much no.

That's a far cry from just trying to get anything to run like it should, which was a process you had to go through to make a PS2 game.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:20:32 2021 No.7979889 >>7972419 >thread is strictly about hardware >immediately jump in with a “but the software is better!” post American education

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:20:40 2021 No.7979890

>>7979865
Maybe not the same way the xbox runs them but with a talented team doing a fuck ton of optimizations I'm sure at least some of those could run. Gamecube's biggest problem is the lack of storage space. Nintendo cucked devs with that. Megaman Legends and Resident Evil 2 on the N64 are ports that managed to deal with that problem in the previous gen. It could be done but it's also worth asking should it be done? You couldn't convince me that Halo couldn't be ported to the PS2 by a competent team though. You also couldn't convince me it would be as good as the Xbox version. But with the right people working on it it could be good enough.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:24:38 2021 No.7979894 >>7979890 GCN's disc space affected basically no games in sixth gen, read >>7978956

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 00:30:23 2021 No.7979913 >>7979890 Halo was actually intended to have a PS2 port released before Microsoft bought Bungie. Some footage exists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a52K1dXcZw

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 04:53:29 2021 No.7980220 >>7979178 >I have no proof of my claim so I'm just gonna say they're lying that way I don't have to prove anything What a waste of time you are, pathetic.

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 05:26:52 2021 No.7980256

>>7979890
>Maybe not the same way the xbox runs them but with a talented team doing a fuck ton of optimizations I'm sure at least some of those could run.
You would need to build those games absolutely from the ground up to get them running. The GC and PS2 didn't have enough RAM and hard drive space for the kind of gameplay Fable and KOTOR offered, nor the graphical processing power to make even the shading system in Doom 3, Riddick, and HL2 run well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 07:54:22 2021 No.7980364 >>7978084 I'm guessing that's zoomlish for "yes"? >>7979006 OMG just embarrassing >>7979020 >it's clear i'm coping like a mofo it is

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 12:57:13 2021 No.7980720

>>7980256
>nor the graphical processing power to make even the shading system in Doom 3, Riddick, and HL2 run well.
Forget the power, they don't even have the programmability. PS2 lacks a programmable pixel pipeline and Gamecube lacks a programmable vertex pipeline; Xbox had both.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 12:57:53 2021 No.7980721 >>7980364 incredibly cringe post

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 13:04:24 2021 No.7980738 >>7980721 >cringe

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 13:18:50 2021 No.7980760 >>7980721 incredibly booty blasted zoom zoom

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 26 16:48:53 2021 No.7981451 >>7979660 >The fact that you need to add more ram to an Xbox to run a game released for a system that's basically an Xbox with more ram speaks volumes

Anonymous Mon Jul 26 17:02:01 2021 No.7981491

>>7972175
>>7972167
Bad games? Yes.
Buggy? Not very often.

PS2 had strict development guidelines, and harsh penalties for anything that hard-crashed the system. If you followed the guidelines, your game should theoretically work perfectly, and Sony's QA would fail anything that wouldn't pass specific tests.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 03:36:25 2021 No.7982914 xbox shouldnt even be on this thread since its too powerfull, the real debate should be ps2 vs gc vs dc >>7979852 or how lazy they were >>7977303 >>7977321 >>7977290 >>7977275 devs are being lazy/uncaring doesnt count

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 05:26:36 2021 No.7983040 >>7982914 >ps2 vs gc vs dc Add the wii to that list.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 05:42:10 2021 No.7983051 >>7982914 >It's just pure laziness and not at all an architectural weakness Copium.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 07:52:22 2021 No.7983167 >>7983051 Oh sure, every game on PC for instance is shittier because computers are weak right? Definitly not because of uncaringness

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 08:45:11 2021 No.7983229

>>7983051
Not really, I would say that the devs were lazy, but porting from PS2 to GC and vice versa would be a nightmare due to the way that each system works. The Wii U was pretty similar to the PS2 in the way that it used RAM and look at some of the third party ports that it got compared to the 1st party stuff. It all depends on which system the publishers choose as the lead platform.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 08:46:12 2021 No.7983231 >>7983229 I wouldn't*

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 08:50:02 2021 No.7983237 >>7983167 Yes, a weak software architecture that adds a layer of inefficiency. I've never seen anyone pull off deferred shading on DX8, but it was done on the Xbox.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 09:38:51 2021 No.7983298 File: 897 KB, 640x480, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7983237 >I've never seen anyone pull off deferred shading on DX8, but it was done on the Xbox. It looks awful too, all that power producing this ugly shit

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 20:31:47 2021 No.7984783

>>7972103
This is always a frustrating conversation because a lot of people don't value shader and postprocess flexibility nor ease of use to developers. The PS2 was a really difficult platform to develop in a way that actually leveraged its theoretical processing advantages. This caused there to be few teams reaching its full potential, and the comparison games then become very flawed examples (multiplatform games are obviously going to save time by essentially using the PS2 like more standard hardware instead of gearing towards it - GCN was made specifically to be easy to dev for and XBox conformed to largely familiar PC specs).

You really, genuinely, have to examine the games themselves for this. Talented, exclusive PS2 developers got seriously amazing things out of it, but the argument that those are few is also correct - the average game would look/perform worse, even though they could have been optimized to be at least on par. The "comparison point" games being poor demonstrations of unique hardware strengths makes this muddier than it has to be.

I'm not trying to make a call, you can value either the few standouts or the many underperformers differently than me and each is kinda valid to do (*except if you're trying to cherrypick genuine shovelware no one plays). I just want to point out this thing about 6th gen arguments.

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 20:45:01 2021 No.7984804

>>7972124
FPBP
Xbox is the most powerful for 6th gen and was able to output the best graphics while running well.
All multiplat games on PS2 and GC ran best on GameCube.
PS2 was extremely fuzzy and games ran worse. To compensate it had the largest library.

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 21:06:37 2021 No.7984867

>>7984783
>The "comparison point" games being poor demonstrations of unique hardware strengths makes this muddier than it has to be.
No it doesn't, it just proves the argument that electrical engineers should have to pass their ideas by programmers before they're allowed to design a new computing system.

If it can't show its power, especially when sharing base code across platforms, then it's a shit system that needs special shit code to make it do anything impressive. Like the fact that MGS2 would skip reflections on the floor of any room and instead just make the floor transparent with a mirrored room below the one you're in.

There's a difference between making the most of the hardware and trying to figure out the cheapest way to make weird hardware do normal things.

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 21:28:48 2021 No.7984928

>>7984804
>multiplat games on PS2 and GC ran best on GameCube.
Not because the GC was more powerful, but because the developers didn't have the time, interest or knowledge to push the ps2 to its limits.
You will never find a game that looks good and technically impressive on the gamecube like Gran Turismo 4, Shadow of Colussus, MGS3, GoW 2...
Burnout 3 (a multiplat game) couldn't be released on the GC because it wasn't able to output the necessary power. Perhaps Black, also a Criterion game, gc version development was dropped for the same reason.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 27 21:38:06 2021 No.7984949 >>7984928 Add Final Fantasy X to that list. Played it for the first time last year and was blown away. Even the menu sounds are fantastic.

Anonymous Tue Jul 27 21:44:48 2021 No.7984976

>>7984928
>Burnout 3 (a multiplat game) couldn't be released on the GC because it wasn't able to output the necessary power.
This is a lie that has already been disproven in this thread. Burnout 3 was canceled for GCN because EA didn't want to publish GCN games anymore, they even nearly cancelled Madden during the GCN's last year.

Also RE4 on GCN looks better than most of those games except for SotC. Oh, one other things, this particular bullshit:
>the developers didn't have the time, interest or knowledge to push the ps2 to its limits.
PS2 games cost so much more time and effort to make than GCN games. We're talking about multiplats here. Did the GCN port of the game get 30 programmers and artists? Then the PS2 version got 50. And the PS2 version STILL looks and runs worse. This was even true of Criteron, the dev you're falsely claiming cancelled the Burnout 3 port to GCN because of power issues. Both games Criteron made for both PS2 and GCN ran better on GCN.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 02:14:18 2021 No.7985457 File: 128 KB, 640x480, shrek.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7983298 Terrible taste.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 02:21:31 2021 No.7985473 >>7984976 >This is a lie that has already been disproven in this thread. No it hasn't.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 03:54:13 2021 No.7985573 >>7983237 computers make up for anything with raw power

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 05:57:08 2021 No.7985703 >>7979838 Thats not the greatest example anon >with tons of screen tearing and slowdown

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 06:02:06 2021 No.7985712 >>7985703 Tbh that happened to most Xbox ports of the demanding games on the PC. Still, at least the Xbox could run it, and the it was much cheaper than a PC.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 06:05:31 2021 No.7985718 >>7985712 Xbox had it rough, man. So few killer apps running at 60 FPS, let alone 30.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 06:13:45 2021 No.7985726 >>7985718 The bright side is that multiplats run like a dream on the Xbox.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 06:42:19 2021 No.7985752 >>7985718 Xbox's killer apps are PC games with the gameplay complexity that's commonly found in PC games only, therefore very demanding.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 06:42:40 2021 No.7985754 >>7985473 >No it hasn't. But it has, taking a quote from some random tossbag on a message board and incorporating it in to a shitty meme does not make it true.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 06:48:02 2021 No.7985765 >>7985754 t. a random tossbag on a messageboard

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 06:58:31 2021 No.7985773 >>7985765 >t. a random tossbag on a messageboard You called?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 14:35:09 2021 No.7986570 >>7985726 I'm not sure about that. I remember sports games being better on Xbox, but MGS2 had slow downs and was 60 fps in some areas. It was a constant 60 fps on PS2.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 15:07:52 2021 No.7986640 >>7986570 MGS2 is a weird one since it's so heavily built around the capabilities of the PS2. MGS2 on Xbox was an afterthought port.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 15:18:04 2021 No.7986657 >>7985473 Yes it has, you're dismissed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 15:25:12 2021 No.7986675 >>7986640 Same with Silent Hill 2.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 15:35:33 2021 No.7986693 >>7986675 Yes, fog especially is something the PS2 excels at due to its crazy bandwidth for alpha blending.

Anonymous Wed Jul 28 16:35:48 2021 No.7986813

>>7977615
>Never seen and am yet to see a person who watched movies on ps2.
Found a ps2 slim @ garage sale with note saying 'dvd player. Works. Extra remote wire'.
The 'wire' was an extension cable for the controller. Elderly woman selling seemed to be unaware of gaming functions.
Didn't ask how she got it

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 28 16:41:30 2021 No.7986825 >>7972103 Generally Speaking Xbox > GameCube > PS2

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 03:20:14 2021 No.7987929 >>7986693 >>7986675 >>7986570 >>7986640 hmm veeery weird, 2 Konami games that dont look as good on superior hardware hmmmmmmmmmm I wonder why

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 03:26:55 2021 No.7987943 >>7987929 It's not a conspiracy the PS2 is just really good at transparent things like fog.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 03:45:45 2021 No.7987978 >>7987929 companies dont butcher their own sales potential for ideological reasons mate., if they wanted to do that they would have just skipped porting to the xbox...

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 04:20:33 2021 No.7988016 >>7972154 It's not. You can upscale it to look as good as the others. Plus it has the best library You're weak for not understanding this

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 06:15:08 2021 No.7988173 >>7987978 I don't think Xbox owners were protesting Silent Hill because of shitty fog effects.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 06:51:33 2021 No.7988231 >>7987929 Games were highly optimized for one platform to the point where porting it becomes impossible without taking liberties. Happens

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 07:26:24 2021 No.7988262

>>7987943
yeah, thats why the pc version can be modded to have the same kind of fog, they are just lazy fucks, Silent Hill 4 pc had complaints about not having ghosts in your room, everyone thought it wasnt included but someone find out that they are in code, but for whatever reason they just didnt activate it.

>>7987978
i didnt say that, but Konami lazily shits out ports when they could make them work better

>>7988231
oh come the fuck on now. The ps2 might be one of the weakest 6th consoles theres hardly any reason the Xbox or computer should have any problem with these games, the xbox can play at least 10 to 15 games on 720p and even a few in 1080i, hardly any developer, Japanese or otherwise had any problem with getting the best out of it, but somehow Konamis ports are the only ones that look/sound worse?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 07:27:18 2021 No.7988263 >>7988262 the pc version running on a modern machine???

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 09:41:52 2021 No.7988403

>>7988262
>It's weak
>IT JUST IS OKAY
Nothing said can penetrate your thick skull.
It's just a fact that the PS2 has an unmatched peak fillrate that let's it handle all these effects.
There's just no theoretical way to avoid making some sort of compromise or completely reworking the pipeline.
Yes, Konami's ports suffer because Konami is one of the few studios that did not shit out half-assed attempts at getting the best out of the PS2. Silent Hill 3 really is something to behold on a technical level.
Really, the issues I see are with the audio and the needless compression artifacts showing up. Other than that, the Xbox version of Silent Hill 2 is an objective improvement with its per-pixel lighting.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 10:03:48 2021 No.7988434

>>7988403
>Other than that, the Xbox version of Silent Hill 2 is an objective improvement with its per-pixel lighting.
Also half rate FMVs, and with shittier audio - sound effects are more compressed, soundtrack is pre-recorded files prone to looping errors.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 11:28:50 2021 No.7988578 >>7972302 The ps1 never got quake...

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 11:50:14 2021 No.7988629 >>7988578 It got Quake 2.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 12:02:10 2021 No.7988649 >>7988629 Pretty impressive port. In a way, it actually looks better thanks to the directional dynamic lighting.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 12:20:48 2021 No.7988679

>>7988434
Yeah, pretty much the only proper way to play SH2 is on the PS2, or emulation if you want upscaling. Same goes for FFX and many more games with bad ports. Though the accuracy of the graphics on PCSX2 is lowered when using hacks and graphical enhancements.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 13:39:00 2021 No.7988860 >>7988679 Increasing the resolution is not upscaling.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 16:59:35 2021 No.7989238 >>7988679 No, PC (with mods obvs)

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:31:43 2021 No.7989296 >>7988679 Mods have fixed the Silent Hill 2 PC port

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