Input Lag in emulation

[Anonymous No.7790335]

how many milliseconds are too many for you?

[Anonymous No.7790338]

>>7790335
bout tree fiddy

[Anonymous No.7790369]

>>7790335
You should really count frames, 16.67ms.

[Anonymous No.7790394]

Really don't care at all and never did

[Anonymous No.7790478]

>>7790335
Depends on the game. I never counted how many frames was my limit but when you feel it you just know.

[Anonymous No.7790601]

>>7790335
1ms of input or audio lag is too much
>>7790369
>You should really count frames
Nope

[Anonymous No.7790619]

>>7790335
i don't deal with it thanks to runahead

[Anonymous No.7790621]

I've been emoolating for years and I've never noticed anything when it comes to input lag, not even once. Currently playing PS1 games with 3.00ms average without runahead btw

[Anonymous No.7790631]

>emulating

[Anonymous No.7790724]

How can I tell?

Sometimes games feel like they might be sluggish

[Anonymous No.7791013]

>>7790724
>>7790621
Play rhythm games like Parappa, Lammy, DDR, Bust-a-groove, etc. It becomes very noticeable because you'll miss almost every command.

[Anonymous No.7791035]

I grew up emulating with zsnes, no$gb, visual boy advance, genecyst, and never had any issues with lag (this was on intel celeron cpus or worse) when did everybody become so autistic about this?

[Anonymous No.7791041]

>>7791013
Man.... I suck at rhythym games on original hardware.

On the other hand, I am using flashcarts... could that be why?

[Anonymous No.7791052]

>>7791041
what kind of TV do you use?

[Anonymous No.7791061]

The only acceptable answer in no input lag, as the developers intended.

[Anonymous No.7791065]

>>7790335
never been autistic enough to count milliseconds. i have pretty competent emulator set ups, so the only time that input lag felt noticeable enough to me in the past few years is whenever i try bluetooth. just doesn't work well with my computer. thankfully the only emulator that needs bluetooth is the wii but you want that console for emulation anyway because its such a comfy way to play a lot of nintendo stuff
>>7791013
i've beaten parappa 2 on an emulator just fine.
>>7791035
it's just a select few shitposters. mister owners are emotionally invested in this talking point because (marginally) less input lag is one of the few selling points it has over other options
>>7791041
nah, it wouldn't. your tv might be the culprit

[Anonymous No.7791067]

>>7790335
I don't care if it doesn't affect gameplay. So if I can beat Mike Tyson, we're square.

[Anonymous No.7791078]

>>7791013
The first PaRappa is bad on original hardware.

[Anonymous No.7791092]

>>7791065
yeah I mean I understand "emulation accuracy" as a merit, but it's emulation it's never going to be the same as playing cartridge on hardware. you're getting the games for free what more do you want?

[Anonymous No.7791097]

>>7791035
Some emulators, especially ones that run on consoles, have noticeable input lag even in slow games, like JRPGs.
Like a poster above said, it becomes almost impossible to play rhythm games, because of input lag + LCD lag. The best example isn't Parappa, but Space Channel 5 on the Dreamcast. This game was notoriously hard on original hardware, but doable. It's almost impossible on any emulator.

Some games also have specific parts where input lag matters a lot, like the jump rope and 100 nobles in FF9, or that ending in Drakengard where you need to push the correct buttons in tune to the music. It won't matter on the rest of the game, just on those parts.

[Anonymous No.7791104]

>>7791065
Lammy is so fucky on emulators that people made comics to shit on it.

[Anonymous No.7791115]

>>7791104
Never had a single issue with Um Jammer Lammy, Parappa 1 on the other hand is insanely hard, especially Mooselini and Cheap Cheap.

[Anonymous No.7791132]

>>7791115
Weird. Lammy is supposed to be much harder than Parappa. Parappa had way more lenient input windows, and you could just mash the buttons along with the rhythm (as long as it wasn't outside the input window).

[Anonymous No.7791143]

>>7791013
>play a piece of shit to notice IMPOOT lagz
You faggots are insufferable

[Anonymous No.7791179]

>>7791104
>>7791115
didn't play lammy on an emulator per se but i did play the ps store version on ps3 through an hdtv kek. i don't remember it being terrible but it's possible sony modified the game to be less strict about timings to compensate for the added lag. i'll have to try it out on my own computer

[Anonymous No.7791189]

Input lag is a total meme.

[Anonymous No.7791237]

People who play with input lag have autism and homosexual urges.

[Anonymous No.7791337]

only emulator that gave me noticeable input lag is PCSX2

[Anonymous No.7791361]

>>7791013
>rhythm games
the eternal coomlector copium

[Anonymous No.7791385]

>>7791337
only emulator that gave me noticeable input lag is all of them

[Anonymous No.7791395]

>>7790335
The input lag from my neurons firing to my fingers pressing the buttons is too long.

[Anonymous No.7791454]

>>7791013
Emulatorfag here. Read your post and went to try a rhythm game, so I chose one of the few I like: 16bit Rhythm Land, a recent game for the Mega Drive. Found no issues, got plenty of perfect actions, bar the ones caused by my poor gameplay.

I'm not dismissing input lag, it does exist, but there are ways to minimize it to imperceptible levels. I don't even use run-ahead, but you can try it if you're too paranoid. I can also share my emulatiom setup if it's of interest of any person here.

[Anonymous No.7791510]

>>7790335
Speedrunners used to (and a lot still do) practice on emulators, only stopping because of AGDQ and how easy it was to cheat. And this was before the days of runahead. It doesn't matter in the majority of cases.

[Anonymous No.7791536]

Retroarch skip-ahead feature just loads a savestate from a few frames ago every input. Literally zero input lag, and even less than the original hardware. This whole thread must be full of obsolete retards / plebs because why discuss a solved problem?

[Anonymous No.7791554]

>>7791536
>retroarch
yea, i'd definitely trust a platform designed by people who make ugly ass filters like these *vomits*

[Anonymous No.7791563]

>>7791536
>Literally zero input lag
nope, and still a fuck load of audio lag

[Anonymous No.7791565]

>>7791536
>even less than the original hardware

[Anonymous No.7791567]

>>7791385
>>7791563
keep posting, someone will eventually be dumb enough to argue with you

[Anonymous No.7791569]

>>7790621
t. JRPG player

[Anonymous No.7791572]

>>7790335
1-2 frames - excellent
3-5 frames - acceptable for casual multiplayer in impromptu situations
6-7 frames - only games which are not timing dependent
Over 8 frames - forget it

[Anonymous No.7791582]

>>7791035
About 25 years ago when emulation started to become popular. Then it really took off in the early 2000s when the switch from
CRT to LCD happened.

Just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it wasn't a topic.

[Anonymous No.7791589]

>>7790631
Because not everyone is autistic enough to waste their money on expensive retro consoles and games

[Anonymous No.7791591]

>>7790619
you can still be experiencing input lag from other sources

[Anonymous No.7791598]

>>7791569

[Anonymous No.7791638]

>>7791598
wow SOTN, the hardest game in the world

[Anonymous No.7791643]

>>7791638
Yes.

[Anonymous No.7791650]

>>7791598
I'm not sure what that 3.15ms refers to (probably amount time to process each frame before display) but it's not the total lag of you set-up.

[Anonymous No.7791660]

>>7791565
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qys9sdzJKI
that being said this is done through a crt monitor, an lcd monitor would make them equal

[Anonymous No.7791715]

>>7790601
Anything higher than 6 frames (100ms) + whatever I get from my setup is when it starts to get annoying.
ds4windows says I got ~0.5ms of input delay and most of the time I play on kb, but idk how much I get from kb+lcd. Either way it is not enough to bother me with run ahead and some decent emulators

[Anonymous No.7791726]

>>7791454
Try a real Rhythm game.

[Anonymous No.7791731]

>>7790335
Anything higher than 6 frames (100ms) + whatever I get from my setup is when it starts to get annoying.
ds4windows says I got ~0.5ms of input delay and most of the time I play on kb, but idk how much I get from kb+lcd. Either way it is not enough to bother me with run ahead and some decent emulators

[Anonymous No.7791740]

>>7791726
If it's not of your liking, then it's not a real rhythm game. I know mommy treats you like her little prince, but the world is not yours to make. Learn the limits of your ego.

[Anonymous No.7791742]

I just got into playing on actual hardware and its like night and day, sure it doesn't matter if its a JRPG but anything two player? forget it. I did side by side comparison, CRT with a raspberry pi on composite video. Fuck emulation, it sucks, this spongy delay is gay as hell

[Anonymous No.7791765]

>>7791742
you say this as if people play multiplayer games on crt outside of melee

[Anonymous No.7791773]

>>7791765
And you say that thinking anyone else is a faggot like you.

Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

[Anonymous No.7791787]

>>7791773
>Plato's Allegory of the Cave
obviously something you're unfamiliar with outside of memes considering the reference doesn't even make sense here. drop the pseudo-intellectualism fag you're bragging about playing children's games on aging technology

[Anonymous No.7791815]

>>7790335
What a meme thread. Get a modern PC.

[Anonymous No.7791834]

>>7791067
I beat him on an NDS NES emulator. Surely you’re emulating on something more powerful than a DS Lite?

[Anonymous No.7791837]

I fucking hate this cus sometimes I feel like a game might be laggy but im emulating I can't fucking compare against the real thing so im fucked

[Anonymous No.7791838]

>>7791742
A raspberry pie has the processing power of an old iPhone, of course emulations gonna suck on it.

[Anonymous No.7791839]

>>7791740
DDR is a rhythm game you should play with and without input lag to get an idea.

[Anonymous No.7791850]

>>7791787
>>7791838
Wow, I really triggered you emulation trannies, huh? Don't get your thighhigh kneesocks in a bunch, now.

If you excuse me, I'm off to play Street Fighter 2 on my Sony BVM. I'm glad I got mine for $300 before prices got even higher.

[Anonymous No.7791854]

>>7791838
it sucks on linux/mac/android/consoles in general compared to based windows

[Anonymous No.7791868]

>>7791854
Linux does pretty fine, at least, with RetroArch, since it receives the same attention and care from the devs as the Windows' builds. But be aware that Linux isn't a sole system; depending on which distribution you use (as well as RetroArch build), results may be subpar.

[Anonymous No.7791871]

>>7791850
>I'm off to play Street Fighter 2 on my Sony BVM
>Paying for a CRT
Tell us about your Funko Pop collection next Anon.

[Anonymous No.7791873]

>$300
oh nonono

[Anonymous No.7791878]

>>7791871
>>7791873
That's not me, it's a falseflag by some butthurt anon. Hold on, I'm getting a screencap to prove it, but my screencap key is broken.

[Anonymous No.7791880]

>>7791878
xD

[Anonymous No.7791883]

>>7791839
I would test it to give you some credit. However, I played it sometimes on the original hardware, and even on the arcade machine, and always suck. Thus, if I emulate it and input lag pops in, I won't know, since my shitty abilities makes me miss the inputs anyway.

If someone here has a means to test DDR with both original hardware and a good emulation setup (please, the "good" part is important), then it would enrich this thread.

[Anonymous No.7791912]

>>7791883
There's really no need to test it since we know that runahead lets games have equal or even less input lag than original hardware.
However, an emulation set up that has both a CRT monitor and a powerful enough computer to do runahead on DDR is somewhat of a tall order.

[Anonymous No.7791929]

>>7791912
Samefagging here but it's an edge case where it's honestly better to just get a PS2 + McBoot or something. It's a lot of bang for your buck since since PS1/PS2 has a pretty solid library, it's not like the N64/Saturn where you're potentially paying $100 for a few good exclusives

[Anonymous No.7791935]

>>7791912
Samefagging here but it's an edge case where it's honestly better to just get a PS2 + McBoot or something. It's a lot of bang for your buck since since PS1/PS2 has a pretty solid library, it's certainly enough DDR games to tide you over. It's not like the N64/Saturn where you're potentially paying close to $200 for a few good exclusives

[Anonymous No.7791957]

>>7791912
Fair. It isn't easy, I know. But run-ahead and CRT together are pretty overkill. In fact, I'd be very surprised if a game couldn't keep with the OG hardware, or even surpass it.

Since I'm playing with a RPi lately, I'm not using run-ahead. Also, not a CRT. I'm pretty happy with my results though. Wish I still had some original hardware to make some tests though. I really want to see if one can achieve, at least, a pleasant result without the use of any extraordinary setup. I can speak for myself and I'm fine, but I dunno about everyone else.

[Anonymous No.7792023]

>>7791957
>>7791957
Runahead + CRT is what's needed to have less input lag than original hardware. As for just having input lag on par with OG hardware, it's hard to say. At least one of these features would be needed. It'd probably depend on how much "lag" is built into the game. The only music games I've played are the Parappa series and honestly I played them just fine on my PSP. Pretty sure that most input lag complaints are either from idiots or melodramatic shitposters.

[Anonymous No.7792038]

>>7791912
>runahead lets games have equal
*some games
And still terrible audio lag and inconsistent input lag. Software emulation's a mess. Its only virtue is that it's free.

[Anonymous No.7792046]

>>7791957
>I'm playing with a RPi lately, I'm not using run-ahead. Also, not a CRT. I'm pretty happy with my results though
If you have low enough standards almost anything is fine.

[Anonymous No.7792049]

>>7792038
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.7792086]

>>7792046
I disagree, don't assume things you know nothing about. I don't put games on a Raspberry Pi and call it a day. I made tests with controllers, systems, configs and LCD TVs, until I was satisfied. In the end, I gained experience and discovered things that work and things which don't with emulation. I can't notice any lessening of my abilities after I made the switch for emulation. Take matters into your hands: research, experiment and improve. Or just keep quiet, but stop shitposting. If you don't know about the topic, then refrain from taking a guess as a certain.

[Anonymous No.7792105]

>>7792086
>feeding the trolls
you must be new here. use your effort on more productive conversations. these emulator vs real hardware discussions never go anywhere and are just excuses to shitpost

[Anonymous No.7792138]

>>7792023
Yes, I'm talking about maintaining the level of input lag found in the OG hardware, or, at least, a negligible amount. I'm doing very fine with the following setup: Raspberry Pi 3B+ running Batocera Linux; OG Xbox 360 wired controllers; a Sony Bravia LCD TV in game mode; RetroArch's poll type behavior set to "early" (important: each setup has a sweetspot for this value, it's not always the same).

I have to praise Sony's LCD TVs for emulation. They do very good with game mode activated. I've tested many more, some were acceptable, some were not, but Sony's come out on top after all my testing. I suggest other anons to try it and see if you like.

[Anonymous No.7792169]

>>7792138
Well that set up isn't gonna have the level of input lag as OG hardware. But the difference is not gonna be noticeable unless you're an autist and that's what really matters. If that degree of input lag really mattered then no one would be doing online gaming. And yet, Melee has undergone massive growth despite switching to a more laggy setup. It's just shitposters, man.

[Anonymous No.7792183]

>>7792105
I know, I know. Thanks for the tip. I'm, indeed, new here. The guy alone is no big deal, it's just I've seen quite an amount of misinformation about emulation on the Internet, especially regarding the Raspberry Pi, so I just want to tell the other side of the story. RPis are cheap and work very nicely, being a practical way to bring retrogaming to many people. I'm not into the "zoom zoom" fad, I like my hobby and I like to help even the zoomer kids to experience the old games. If any person thinks he needs the OG hardware to play retrogames, then he's fucked, for it's getting harder and harder to play things like the good old times.

[Anonymous No.7792630]

>>7790335
1cc'd Gate of Thunder yesterday using Retroarch with my big HD TV and a wireless 8bitdo M30.

Unless you guys are literally doing some autistic shit like world record speed runs or maybe a handful of rhythm games, you honestly to shut your pie holes and get fucking good desu.

[Anonymous No.7792647]

>>7792630
>wanting to play the game the way it was intended makes you a speedrunning autist

[Anonymous No.7792664]

>>7792183
>I'm, indeed, new here
Where did you come from?
>>7792138
Raspberry Pi is awful for emulation, LCDs are awful for classic games, and 360 controllers are terrible for anything 2D. Congratulations on doing what you call research, and on your politeness and willingness to articulate your opinions, but your taste and opinions are reflective of your bottom of the barrel standards

Your setup vs. real hardware or FPGA + CRT is a heinous joke to anyone who has the luxury of being able to compare, and who has a modicum of awareness. If I were forced to use your setup, with the exception of social settings, I'd probably just stop playing games

[Anonymous No.7792678]

>>7792647
Lol. "As it was intended."

Like ol' Shigeru was worried about the precious fidelity of Mario 30 years into the future and literal miliseconds of input lag or whether or not people would argue about the shade of blue or purple the sky was in a fucking 8 bit child's toy.

Bro. Don't resist change. Seriously. You'll be an ugly person if you can't accept things changing in life.

Your childhood is over. All of the CRTs in the world will not change that.

Let. Go.

[Anonymous No.7792685]

>>7792678
I know Nintendo don't care thats why they've released shitty Mario 64 emulation in the past full of lag making it near impossible to play if you grew up on the original.

[Anonymous No.7792686]

>>7792664
>I can't have fun if games are not 100 percent exactly like they were in my childhood.

You guys, man. Hooboy.

[Anonymous No.7792690]

>>7792685
Way to completely and intentionally elide the point.

[Anonymous No.7792696]

>>7792686
Try wall jumping in Mario 64 with a full second of lag then get back to us on accepting your slop.

[Anonymous No.7792702]

>>7792690
Do you want to eat real beef or beyond meat beef? According to you emulation boys theres practically no difference.

[Anonymous No.7792748]

>>7792696
So I actually do have a Switch with the new Mario collection. It was given to me as a gift by a well-meaning friend.

I got all 120 stars back in the day. I got like 94 stars or so in the Switch collection before getting bored. Didn't have issues.

Another example. I actually felt like there was lag in the Switch Mega Man connection. I was doing ok but hadn't played the original in years and wasn't sure. Handed the controller to my buddy who is a MM fanatic and has all 6 original NES games. Dude beat Flash Man very easily and shrugged. Said it felt fine.

Let's take another example. Say something like a shmup with admittedly requires precision. Now let's take a look at it on an HD TV on one of those mini systems that get tons of flack here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWoYmnyD7wI

tl;dw "If it's 'unplayable', it's because you need practice. Get good."

In Summary:

"nOt as iNtEndEd"! Who fucking cares? Why do you need little cartoon sprites on a screen to have perfect fidelity?

"i cAn'T waLL jUmP! mUh iNpUt LaG!" Get good, pussy.

Bunch of sincere whiners on this board, holy hell lol.

[Anonymous No.7792764]

>>7792702
Lol. This is an unintentionally perfect metaphor for my argument.

Hands down Beyond Meat. Far better for the environment, better ethically, and with the right seasoning is still good. Healthwise I'm not sure it's any better, but we'll see what happens. It only seems imperfect because you're basing everything on your past experience and incapable of adapting to changing environments.

[Anonymous No.7792773]

>runahead

[Anonymous No.7792797]

>>7792183
>I'm, indeed, new here
>>7792664
>Where did you come from?
>>7792764
>Hands down Beyond Meat.
gonna go with resetera

[Anonymous No.7792807]

>>7792664
I come from many places where retrogames were discussed. Nothing special, and I wasn't particularly known in any of them. Just wandering around.

Once again, I'll have to disagree with you. I did have the "luxury" of comparing setups, and I found nothing to keep me glued to my OG hardware, I could play everything just fine and wasn't bothered by any input lag. As I found more practical to have everything emulated (note: luckily, the systems I like to play are well emulated), I slowly sold all of my small collection (finished selling it last year). I really have no regrets, and I even had some time to change my mind.

The Pi is serving me very well, and I beg to ask: did you ever try it? You seem so attached to OG hardware I find it difficult for you to take the extra time for doing that. I hope you really did try it, not something like a 15-minute session, but with the mindset of someone aiming for the best results possible, making test after test. Otherwise, your arguing would be pointless, screaming about something over your head.

[Anonymous No.7792812]

>>7792748
I was referring to Wii U eshop Mario 64. As the Switch is your first console and you will forever play emulation you will never understand.

[Anonymous No.7792815]

>input lag

[Anonymous No.7792818]

>>7792748
>tl;dw "If it's 'unplayable', it's because you need practice. Get good."
Not about success in beating the game, it's about the game feeling like shit to play. And in the case of software emulation--runahead or not--and digital displays, it universally feels like shit to play.

The whole point of playing a game is the experience of the process, not for some shallow fleeting gratification from beating a piece of entertainment. I'm not going to waste my limited time playing some sloppy facsimile, even on a fast PC, let alone a grotesque RPi and a LCD.

[Anonymous No.7792826]

>>7792812
You will never be a woman or good at Mario 64 wall jumping.

[Anonymous No.7792829]

>>7792807
>did you ever try it?
Yes, I've been messing with emulation since Nesticle + a modded NES controller connected to a printer port. I've tried pretty much everything. Retroarch + frame delay + runahead + WASAPI (or the Linux equivalent with KMS) + CRT is easily the best software solution, but it's not perfect, and its imperfections are glaring

[Anonymous No.7792834]

>>7792818
>some shallow fleeting gratification from beating a piece of entertainment

Broseph. I'm 32. I don't know where you're at, but if you haven't figured out that most shit at least to do with video games is all "shallow fleeting gratification", you need to grow up. That's probably why you can't enjoy video games. Some bizarre fixation on childhood I guess. Someone should write a book on you guys.

[Anonymous No.7792838]

>>7792829
>its imperfections are glaring
You're a virgin because the girls all have pointy elbows, eh?

[Anonymous No.7792848]

>>7792834
>most shit at least to do with video games is all "shallow fleeting gratification"
A single playthrough can last hours. Beating it or not is minor. If I'm not into the process then there's no point

[Anonymous No.7792857]

>>7792838
If I were a virgin input lag would be the least of my worries

[Anonymous No.7792872]

>Input lag
>Emulation
lol
I would rather we had those Master System threads again instead of this mediocre bait.
Bunch of idiots that will state 1-4 is too much while retardedly saying their real hardware with 40-50ms is ok, even when the system next to that is 30 and the one next to that in 80.

[Anonymous No.7792873]

>>7791839
DDR works perfect emulated. Poor example you retarded fuck. In fact real home hardware ps2 and pads were notorious for a large margin of delay.

[Anonymous No.7792878]

>>7791061
A snes controller alone has 20-30 ms. You dumbfuck
>>7791092
IF someone had a good FPGA, real hardware, and an emulator, all plugged into the same tv with a same controller for each you would never fucking know the difference. Dilate tranner

[Anonymous No.7792883]

>>7792878
Wrong

[Anonymous No.7792897]

>>7792873
>Bastardised emulation is actually more true than the real mcoy
Sure it is buddy.

[Anonymous No.7792918]

>>7792807
I have a pi3 with a retrotink ultimate hat for component out and a full Mister setup. I can feel the difference on my Mister. Its just better.

[Anonymous No.7793201]

>>7791731
>>7791572
This here is the plain truth.

Another way of putting it: if your window for inputting a command gets cut in half, it's too much lag.
Example: In Streetfighter 3 you have 10 frames to do a parry. If you cut that in half, it gets frustrating. But 3-4 frames of lag is doable.

[Anonymous No.7793207]

imagine being like 6ft 8 and trying to play video games, the lag from your neurons firing to them travelling down your longer arms to your hand and finger muscles compared to a normal person's arm length would make like 90% of games unplayable

[Anonymous No.7793209]

>>7793201
3rd Strike is such a great fighting game. Just option select parry for every single action and you're good to go. It's literally perfect....

[Anonymous No.7793219]

Runahead is literally left than original hardware. Who has any kind of counter argument?

Only people who do not emulate are seething trannies and other weirdos and freaks, because you live in your own cult world with no logic behind it

[Anonymous No.7793230]

>>7793219
>Only people who do not emulate are seething trannies
Or non onions gamers who like to play competitively.

[Anonymous No.7793257]

>>7793230
>smelee
>non onions
pick one

[Anonymous No.7793264]

>>7793219
>Who has any kind of counter argument?

Runahead is bullshit trickery you are just too dumb to understand that it isn't "hurrdurr make better than crt! delay go bye bye!"

[Anonymous No.7793276]

>>7793257
I agree the scene may have a lot of whackos but the idea of competitive one on one gaming is based.

[Anonymous No.7793386]

>>7792878
>>7792883
If PC is high-end I think it's true, Raspberry PIs is slow even for browsers with few tabs.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/

[Anonymous No.7793408]

>>7790335
Anything over a frame is noticeable to me

[Anonymous No.7793418]

>>7793264
>no actual counterargument given
lel
>>7793230
I love when this example gets brought up because COVID has forced Melee into more laggy set ups and its gotten a uptick in popularity because it's more accessible now

[Anonymous No.7793428]

>>7793418
If you went to these events you would realise Melee isn't the only game played this way.

Go set up your emulation event. I'm sure it will create better players and be ten times more popular.

[Anonymous No.7793429]

[Anonymous No.7793448]

>>7793428
>If you went to these events you would realise Melee isn't the only game played this way.
Melee is the only one that's commonly played this way. All other /vr/ fighters are played through stuff like Fightcade, with playing real hardware just being a cute novelty.
>Go set up your emulation event. I'm sure it will create better players and be ten times more popular.
You've already lost the popularity argument considering Melee has continued to grow under this new Dolphin + online era.

[Anonymous No.7793468]

>>7793448
>cute novelty.
Wouldn't have anything to do with it being the most authentic version. Japs and US still play Super Turbo on arcade boards. I don't get how you can talk so much without ever attending one of these events.
>You've already lost the popularity argument considering Melee has continued to grow under this new Dolphin + online era.
Emulation will never be the standard. Deal with it and move on.

[Anonymous No.7793472]

>>7793468
Only a small minority is that dedicated to play on arcade boards. You've tried the populartiy argument, realized it doesn't hold up, and now you're trying to backpedal by making it about authenticity. lol just admit you're one of those meleefags who's unfamiliar with real fighting games
>Emulation will never be the standard. Deal with it and move on.
It's been the standard for the past year now. A lot of players will go back to CRTs once COVID dies down but with the influx of popularity, online is definitely gonna be a significant part of Melee now. There's no closing the pandora's box.

[Anonymous No.7793489]

>>7793472
>who's unfamiliar with real fighting games
You just said ALL retro fighters are played on Fightcade when real tournaments use arcade boards and I'm the one whose unfamiliar?

[Anonymous No.7793625]

>>7791598

[Anonymous No.7793642]

>>7792829
I that case, we're even. I will trust you and note to myself that some people are more sensitive to input lag, so a CRT still matters to them. At my side, as I don't feel any difference, I will still play with my RPi, until something better pops in. Thanks for chatting politely!

[Anonymous No.7793665]

>>7791013
Wow you suck shit at video games
Every single rhythm game tells you in advance what button you'll need to press. As long as you know how long it takes between you wanting to press the button and the game registering it then you can adjust to it just fine even if you're playing on some ridiculously laggy late 90's LCD screen with a poorly coded emulator
The only problem is variable input lag but that's extremely uncommon no matter what you're playing with

[Anonymous No.7793679]

>>7790335
Input lag, as long as it's not tremendously high, is only an issue when it's inconsistent, or it doesn't match the frame timing.

For example, as long as your lag is absolutely always 32ms, your inputs will always be read 2 frames later than normal.
If your lag was 24ms, then sometimes your inputs would be read 1 frame late, and sometimes they would be read 2 frames late, as most old games read input when it's time to draw the next frame.

If your input lag is variable due to some interference on your system or OS (like reading other things on the same USB, other activities happening and not delivering data appropriately, etc.) Then you're really fucked. More than 2 frames variable, and you'll be missing jumps.

It's very difficult to have zero lag on an emulator, but it's pretty common to have consistent lag, and even if it was up to 5 frames of lag, some people could get used to that. Most people are likely used to a consistent 2 or 3.

If you've only ever emulated, though, I'd recommend giving original hardware and a CRT a try, with wired controllers. It's a pretty damn good experience.

[Anonymous No.7793685]

>>7793665
>adjust
I had a pirated Asian rhythm game on psx called Dreams come true. It was fucked and the beat was out of time with each button press. No amount of adjusting would ever suffice. I would have to test your modern day emulation but I've never been happy with DDR outside of an arcade.

[Anonymous No.7793686]

Zero. Lag is not acceptable under any circumstances.

[Anonymous No.7793726]

input lag is soulful, i need more input lag

[Anonymous No.7794116]

>>7790335
Unsure, but there's definitely a limit. I like wireless controllers, unless you're stuck with some bluetooth monstrosity, the input lag shouldn't even be perceptible.

I played Doom on PS4, that new official port running in Unity, and it had really bad input lag, kicking my ass left and right, no idea why, TNT really isn't that hard, not in the early parts, and I'm dying in stupid ways. Had mouse turning made me soft? Had I suffered a brain aneurysm? I check in options, and Vertical Sync is on, turning it off, everything becomes normal, the game plays like it always has, it feels like the game had gaslit me, because I had just come off of Doom 64 which played perfectly fine on the same console.

Anyway, not a bad port, disaster on launch, but they did fix it up. I think you still can't rebind your controls if you're on PS4, which is kinda shitty, but beyond that, it all runs well, if you're a console-only pleb, it's a good way to play the classic game, as it comes with a bunch of free expansions and 'curated' fan mapsets, and is largely accurate to the original .exe

>>7791013
I'm not into any of those kinds of games, but I imagine this is a part where it's an absolute dealbreaker. Mother 3 lets you get some hit bonuses in combat by timing your button inputs to the beat of the music, in emulators this doesn't work like it should. You don't need this feature anyway, but imagine a game where something like that is central to playing the game.

[Anonymous No.7794124]

>>7791041
Flashcarts don't make a difference unless the game used a cartridge with special hardware.

[Anonymous No.7794130]

>>7791065
>so the only time that input lag felt noticeable enough to me in the past few years is whenever i try bluetooth
Why would you use bluetooth?

[Anonymous No.7794180]

>>7792630
>Gate of Thunder
That soundtrack makes me cum.

[Anonymous No.7794225]

>>7792630
This game is awesome. Too bad I've never finished it, even though I have lots of fun, every time I try. I just wished the main cannon didn't pause its shots, after upgrading. That little gap between shots causes me some unwanted deaths.

[Anonymous No.7794243]

>>7794130
Not him, but the selling point of bluetooth controllers are the lack of wires, which may bother some people. As a matter of fact, I would use it too, if I couldn't notice its input lag and if the battery time was good. I've yet to try those bluetooth controllers from 8bitdo, but I'm not in the mood for spending cash while taking the risk that the controller might not be that good.

[Anonymous No.7794314]

>>7794243
>but the selling point of bluetooth controllers are the lack of wires
No, you misunderstand, I use wireless controllers and mice all the time, I just don't use shitass bluetooth ones.

[Anonymous No.7794435]

Fuck this mythical eeenbud lag. The real question is, do you play in the original res or upscale? For me, it's the supersamping from 4k to original 480p

[Anonymous No.7794571]

Cucks

[Anonymous No.7794664]

>>7790335
1 millisecond even though I can't notice it, but any amount of input lag triggers me so much that it makes me seethe when console mini chads brag about their mini consoles while ignoring the MiSTer I'm trying to sell to them.

[Anonymous No.7795217]

>>7794130
i saw a test where ds4 bluetooth had less input lag than ds4 usb. apparently sony fucked up the usb polling. i tried it and quickly went back to usb because i kept dropping inputs.
>>7793472
>>7793489
i've only dabbled in kof but fightcade and other online set ups are def common for those games, even the /vr/ ones. i would think it depends. kof is super popular in poorfag countries like china and brazil so that probably explains the "take what you can get" mindset and the tolerance of it
of course events with actual hardware set ups happen too. most people i know play online frequently while also going to events if they can

[Anonymous No.7795232]

>>7794130
i saw a test where ds4 bluetooth had less input lag than ds4 usb. apparently sony fucked up the usb polling. i tried it and quickly went back to usb because i kept dropping inputs.
>>7793472
>>7793489
i've only dabbled in kof but fightcade and other online set ups are def common for those games, even the /vr/ ones. i would think it depends. kof is super popular in poorfag countries like china and brazil so that probably explains the "take what you can get" mindset and the tolerance of it
of course events with actual hardware set ups happen too. most people i know play online frequently while also going to events if they can, no one's gonna pass up the opportunity to play on actual arcade board kek

[Anonymous No.7796319]

I never notice input or audio lag unless it's over a frame because I'm a lobotomized retard

[Anonymous No.7796425]

>>7790601
>1ms of input or audio lag is too much
Unless you're a robot, it'd be impossible for you to even notice 1ms.
Retard.

[Anonymous No.7796452]

>>7796425
Play any arcade game with strict timing then play the same on a console/pc with a gaming monitor. You will notice a difference.

[Anonymous No.7796954]

>>7796425
I agree. Like I play my original Sega Genesis console and compare it with a Sega Genesis mini and I'm not noticing any differences.

[Anonymous No.7796960]

>>7793685
>I've never been happy with DDR outside of an arcade.
Stepmania

[Anonymous No.7796990]

>>7790335

This is the best art style ever. Why did only Policenauts and City Hunter have it?!

[Anonymous No.7798340]

>>7795232
>i saw a test where ds4 bluetooth had less input lag than ds4 usb. apparently sony fucked up the usb polling. i tried it and quickly went back to usb because i kept dropping inputs.
try this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0wcJM4FtXQ
https://github.com/LordOfMice/hidusbf

[Anonymous No.7798350]

>>7798340
mine went from 3.5ms to this

[Anonymous No.7799037]

>>7790335
Sauce on op's pic ? Which game is this.

[Anonymous No.7799287]

Just played Space Channel 5 on a 144 hz monitor with usb dualshock 4. Worked out fine, the only lag was my fingers

[Anonymous No.7799302]

>>7792696
I love the idea of someone boasting about sucking at Mario just to win an online argument over emulation

[Anonymous No.7800497]

>>7796425
Do you think that a person never misses an action by 1ms? Notice it or not, it objectively matters, retard

[Anonymous No.7800510]

>>7790335
>how many milliseconds are too many
however many it takes for me to notice

[Anonymous No.7801548]

>>7791589
something that CRT twats and or an extent retroarch dimwits will never understand

[Anonymous No.7803618]

>>7791554
They make shit to run on 4k and 8k oled tv's with faggots using outdated raspberryPi and upscalers, not monitors pc's as everyone else does it

plus, those scanlines are too big and visible for small screens, which i hate it even more because it doesn't scale with your screen or even real PC CRT monitors well outside a few presets, and you cant tweak it, only "chose and shove".

>>7792748
Im pretty much finishing all of the classic and snes X collection atm using standalone puNES and the latest version of snes9x x64 with d3d, i had no issues playing it because i don't care with the delay, busted membrane keyboard or controller, its easy.
A friend of mine who still has his SNES and Super metroid cartridge got to play on PC after years using the same config as i, no issues either, 100% run, and swimsuit samus at the end.

>>7792818
>>7796452
you sound like a underage zoomer troll who's larping as a oldfag at its 40's, and who probably watches kiketubers who knows shit about gaming, to the point of parroting them to play as smart.

>>7794116
it isn't input lag, is FINAL DOOM that is overly retarded, no matter if its DOS, unity or Graf's autism port.
also DOOM64 unity has weak Barons due to kaiser mistaking the damage output of them, they hit harder on N64 and PC retribution

[Anonymous No.7803705]

>>7803618
Low IQ, poor, bitter, ESL

[Anonymous No.7803720]

>>7803705
Im not the one larping over input lag when everyone in this fucking thread doesnt give 2 Jack and shits about it

[Anonymous No.7803785]

>>7803618
I am talking from experience. Play any fighter on a gaming monitor on ps3/360 and then arcade. You will notice slight differences between all 3 with arcade being the smoothest experience.

[Anonymous No.7805310]

>>7796425
Fucking wrong input lag is a lot worse that people think. You just naturally get used to it. Makes a night and day diffrence on any game with tight timings.

[Anonymous No.7805446]

How's input lag with the Wii? I really like the classic controllers but somebody fucked up at Nintendo by making them plug into the Wii Remote and not the console. Is GameCube wired a decent option?

[Anonymous No.7805450]

>>7805446
Yes If you can live with the garbage controller. You shouldn't worry about Input lag on the wii. You should only use it as it should be: A quick and easy to setup emubox and not a proper setup. Also make sure you apply the video fix because if you have a GC compatible model it 100% has the video DAC defect.

[Anonymous No.7805469]

>>7805450
Also make sure you apply the video fix because if you have a GC compatible model it 100% has the video DAC defect.

What's the video fix?

[Anonymous No.7805662]

>>7790335
The only acceptable lag is 0. There was one genesis game which i could not beat a particular boss in emulator because the extra 16ms delay. After i hacked the emulator to remove the input lag i could reliably beat the boss.

[Anonymous No.7805673]

>>7791189
nope.

[Anonymous No.7805718]

>>7790335
she's so pretty
I'm in love

[Anonymous No.7805739]

>>7805662
There's always that post from that guy which is full of lies, but this one is very low effort. You can advocate better against input lag, without lying. There really is no need.

Keypoints of lie
- Lethargic player with 16ms of input lag. Miraculously good gamemaster with 0ms.
- "That one boss from that one Genesis game... You know... That one. I'm definetely not making things up".
- CIA black-ops hackerman. "Emulator devs are fags, lemme hack it and show how it's done. I just did... That... You know... That thing which removes input. Hacker stuff, you wouldn't understand".

[Anonymous No.7806262]

>>7805739
its one autist insisting on this shit

>>7803618
this looks like a Megaman X4/X6 render
Blargg NTSC Composite paired with tweaked royale reshade, newpixie and easymode is neat for old 8bit to 32bit era.

[Anonymous No.7806991]

>>7805739
1. the specific game had a boss which jumped out of the floor at random. On real hardware I could beat the boss 80% of the time, with the additional 16ms of delay my success rate dropped to like 20%.

2. The specific hack I made to the emulator was such to shuffle the order of operations. A traditional double buffered render is ordered like so.
wait vsync
flip buffer
render frame

I changed the order to.
wait vsync
render frame
flip buffer

This only worked because the emulator was old and could run at full speed on a pentium1, and I was running it on an 4.4Ghz i7, this allowed me to render the entire frame during the vertical retrace period removing the input lag.

[Anonymous No.7807275]

>>7806991
Which emulator? You had access to the source code, right? Could you share your input lag-free build?

[Anonymous No.7807763]

Just beat 1st level of Space Channel 5 on a 144hz screen with dualshock 4 (stock polling rate). Input lag is made up (unless you're a 60hz pleb then maybe)

[Anonymous No.7807853]

>>7790335
>input lag
>In most cases is lower than the real hardware since idiots like OP are unaware of how much real hardware had delay

[Anonymous No.7807929]

>>7807853
>In most cases is lower than the real hardware since idiots like OP are unaware of how much real hardware had delay
Real hardware is what good players want. In reality you would never spout this nonsense as your braindead talk would be laughed at.

[Anonymous No.7808005]

>>7807275
It was kega fusion which is not open source.
I modified the binary, but the change was very simple.
1. I disabled the original call to WaitForVsync
2. I inserted a call to WaitForVsync after Flip
Those locations to modify were easy to find since they are calling external apis.
I used http://www.rohitab.com/apimonitor, to find the call sites

I may have also hooked QueryPerformanceCounter such to prevent stutter by providing KF with artificial timing information derived from vsync timing. Basically I would add exactly 1/60th of a second after each frame to decouple the rendering from real time and sync it exactly to the display.

I am not able to locate this modified version right now. I backed up all my files with a custom backup software which I wrote myself and then I broke the tool. Such that all my backups are unreadable, and the old versions of the tools source code are in the backups which can only be read by the tool which I broke. So that is something I need to sort out at some point.