/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6369474]

Should I bother playing the Sega CD versions of Lunar? Or should I just start with the PS1 releases?

[Anonymous No.6369493]

Unless you're a purist/collector, stick with the PS1 ports. The translation is better, as is just about every other facet.

[Anonymous No.6369503]

>>6369493
The music in the PS1 port of Lunar 1 is shit. That's the one thing I have against it. It sounds like it's coming out of a cheap MIDI keyboard.

[Anonymous No.6369505]

>>6369474
You should just watch an LP of whatever version you can understand EOPZ

[Anonymous No.6369517]

>>6369474
The Seha CD version if Lunar 1 is only a little bit better than the remake, but the PS1 version of Lunar 2 Eternal Blue is garbage. So there's no reason not to play the originals of both. If you love them check out the remakes but don't have high expectations.

[Anonymous No.6369550]

Lunar 1 for Sega CD lacks a few quality of life features from later JRPGs like being able to see what the stats are for equipment, what items do, what your spells do etc, there's no option to equip after you buy you have to go into the equip menu, etc. I had to play with a FAQ open in the background. Sega CD Lunar 2 has all those things and is a huge improvement so far, no complaints.

[Anonymous No.6370797]

if you happen to have the PS1 version only then just play it - if you come across the SegaCD version later on play that too, then make up your own mind - do the same for the sequel Eternal Blue too.

[Anonymous No.6370859]

PS1 version is miles above the Sega version, it's hardly a "port".

[Anonymous No.6371043]

>>6370859
0/10

>>6370797
For sure if someone only has access to the PS versions they're worth playing, but the originals especially for the second are way better in the CD version. How they made a remake for a more powerful system and ended up cutting animations and music tracks I'll never understand bjt they are classic examples of the lazy remake problem that persists in many ports.

[Anonymous No.6371084]

>>6371043
expanding - I myself have played both iterations, SegaCD and PS1 , and I legit enjoyed both even though I started with the PS1 initially. Also if you want to talk about lazy, then what about the Silver Star Harmony game on the PSP? I have never played it because I never had a PSP, and have yet to emulate it due to time constraints; but that is essentially Silver Star but I don't know how different it is compared to the PS1.

[Anonymous No.6371589]

>>6369474
The PSX ports are superior in every way. This guy >>6369517 is retarded

[Anonymous No.6371654]

>>6371084
I haven't played the PSP versions, but the Lunar 1 port for GBA is an abomination and somehow has an even worse translation than the WD one. Give it to Ubisoft to do the worst job possible.

I don't know what, but something happened to GameArts in between 16 and 32 bit. I wonder sometimes if Gun Griffon was a big loss, but you can start to see it in Grandia where it feels like corners are cut.

Lunar Silver Star Story fares better partly because Lunar 1 was pretty rudimentary in some ways and it feels like they put more work into it than the Eternal Blue remake. That's where things really started to fall apart. Lunar 2 on PS1 is almost embarrassing compared to the original. It's not just fewer animations over all like doors opening and other minor details, whole sections like the Illusion Woods were redone and made far more simple.

We'll probably never know because it's not a big enough company for someone to delve into making a documentary but I can only imagine there are some piquant stories to be told about how this once extremely promising company crashed and burned so hard.

[Anonymous No.6371670]

>>6371654
i never played Lunar on the GB, so I don't know how it plays, I heard of Lunar Schools on the GB. Overall though I am a huge Lunar fan and again I liked both the SegaCD and PS1 versions.

[Anonymous No.6371732]

redpill me on the unworked designs patch of this? is it acceptable to play? i know WD made the games grindy as fuck to prevent rentals or whatever.

[Anonymous No.6371746]

>>6371670
The GBA is a port of the Saturn/PS1 version but since it was put out in North America by UbiSoft they had to completely redo the translation from the Working Designs versions and the result is that it's super dry and dull instead of just juvenile jokes.

>>6371732
The WD version actually requires zero grinding and is pretty well balanced as jrpgs go. Tbe Japanese is just a little easier.

Ed Azunitia made Ecco the Dolphin extra hard in some spots to prevent weekend rental beatings, that might be what you're thinking of.

[Anonymous No.6371750]

>>6371746
ah, thanks for the response. and yeah honestly the second part of my post was just stuff i'd heard about WD on here. probably better to have formed my own opinions.

[Anonymous No.6371769]

>>6369474
Theyre both good, just make sure you patch them first.
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=23436.0
>>6369493
>The translation is better
It's the same meme filled working designs bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6371794]

>>6369493
>The translation is better
Yet its still shit. Lunar has the worst translation Working Designs could do.

[Anonymous No.6372012]

I play the cd version because it works on my 3ds

[Anonymous No.6372037]

>>6369474
The only slight I hear about the PS1 remakes are is making 2 easier. Which, honestly, if you're playing these games for the difficulty, you missed the point.

[Anonymous No.6372054]

>>6372012
um wat? CD... 3DS; unless you loaded a SegaCD or PS1 emulator?

[Anonymous No.6372065]

>>6371750
There was some drama back in the day because the Gamefan guy who reviewed it had played the Japanese version but got filtered by the Borgan fight and it came out that after he submitted the column he was asking how to beat it.

I think it was a lot of hooey over nothing and that review critical as it was convinced me to buy the game, but it started the ball rolling on people complaining.about working designs localizations.

[Anonymous No.6373013]

>>6372065
To be honest, WD Borgan was a massive pile of grindy bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6373040]

>>6371732
They did, in fact, turn up all the stats to the nth degree. You get less experience, you have less defence, spells cost more, and enemies hit harder. I'm pretty sure these numbers are all documented somewhere, so you can see their dramatic changes for yourself.

What's more, they purposefully mistranslated some puzzles so that it was harder to complete, and sent you in the wrong direction.

In Eternal Blue, they went even further and made it cost resources to save. That's right, could save your game for free.

All of this was indeed in service of taking longer to complete, so that you couldn't turn it around in a weekend.

The real problem is that the games are honestly too easy in the original Japanese, and maybe that's not a problem because they are otherwise simple JRPGs, and the real meat is in the stories, and the world, etc., but the WD versions are in many respects more oppressive. Not harder, because it's still the same game, just a lot more demanding.

[Anonymous No.6373083]

>>6373013
I didn't grind at all and beat him. Most fights in Lunar were like that for me right up to Zophar. I never stopped to grind but always explored each dungeon fully and most of the time there was a point where I thought the boss would wipe me, but usually with just one or two characters left and all my items used I'd win.

The last fight (for the main game anyway) came down to just Hiro alive, no more restorative items at all and completely out of MP. One more decent attack from Zophar would have killed him but Hiro does a normal attack with just enough to win. After a game full of epic fights that was a perfect end.

Contrast to FF7 and my second playthrough where Sephy died too fast the first time but I forgot to unequip all Cloud's counter materia so the party spent the whole battle throwing megalixers at the end boss to keep him alive long enough to finally show me his big fancy attack. And people wonder why I was underwhelmed.

[Anonymous No.6373105]

>>6373040
Here are the changes documented:
https://tcrf.net/Lunar:_Eternal_Blue/Regional_Differences

It leads with translation differences, which could be minor or egregious, but the stat, economy, and mechanic changes are pretty intense. They did do some stuff that was beneficial like remembering the last spell used, but it otherwise is set to cost you more in almost every case.

Interestingly, the first Lunar on Sega CD only had boss stat changes, which is why some people say it can feel "Grindy" because you can otherwise scare by in most cases, and then all of a sudden a boss will gut check you.

Tough to say whether this is better or worse. It changes less, but it makes it less consistent, and means most players who aren't explorers will probably be shocked and 1 shotted very quickly.

[Anonymous No.6373118]

>>6373040
Like I say here >>6373083 there are difficulty changes but I think they mostly make for a better experience since jrpgs can end up being way too easy if you take your time and end up over grinding.

Also the using XP to save thing is really exaggerated in my opinion. Sure it's there and weird but after the first couple of hours the cost is so minimal that unless you were trying to save every five minutes there will be plenty to level up whatever skills you want.

To me the worst most glaring things are the bad attempts at humor and pop culture references. Clinton jokes and Austin Powers call backs aren't something I ever needed in a fantasy RPG.

[Anonymous No.6373135]

>>6369474
Ps1

Scd is awesome too though. Although it was my first ps1 I better. Spell names, no random encounters, bonus content etc. Even outside of working designs, game arts staff said the ps1 version is closer to their original vision for the game (as said on the "making of" bonus disc. They could be just trying to hype their latest game at the time but it's reasonable enough.

Although the fmv is better on ps1 the pixel art on sega cd is cool too. Still, ps1 man. Only minor inconsequential differences in the story dept. The meat is still the same, and you get more of it in ps1. I don't think 2 is nowhere as different as 1...But I still suggest ps1 for 2 as well. More cutscenes, voiceovers etc.

[Anonymous No.6373139]

>>6371084
The psp and gba ports aren't even in the discussion for which anyone should play. They're never recommended by long-time fans.

[Anonymous No.6373160]

>>6373135
>But I still suggest ps1 for 2 as well. More cutscenes, voiceovers etc.

You don't even know what you're talking about. There are cut animations and music tracks in the main game. And on top of Game Arts laziness, Working Designs also didn't re-record a bunch of the audio for cut scenes that arenow different. So things like when Ghaleon shows up at the garden they barely sync up at all, it's an embarrassment.

For Lunar 1 the remake is a decent alternative, for Lunar 2 the remake is god awful.

[Anonymous No.6373162]

>>6373139
so the threshold to be a fan is that you cannot like the GB or PSP versions? I do plan to play the PSP version, when I have time and make the decision for myself - or do I just not play it so I can be a "true fan" ?

[Anonymous No.6373173]

>>6373162
You should always try a game for yourself if you're curious about it. It's a video game, not hard drugs.

The gba is just not the same game. It's not a bad game, but it's nowhere near the same experience. Same goes for psp. Psp actually has scenes that totally ruin the mythic feel of the lore. Instead of feeling like legendary battles of the past, they are straight up corny.

It's just in my experience talking to other long-time fans from the old lunar forums that no one ever suggests gba or psp as a first experience. Being a fan...of course I've tried both myself too before telling others to avoid them as their first time.

[Anonymous No.6373179]

>>6373173
>first experience
Ok that is the key thing right there - which is fine. Then I guess you can debate SegaCD v PS1 then. Again though personally I like both iterations.

[Anonymous No.6373193]

>>6373162
Not him and I haven't played the PSP, but the GBA port is truly pretty awful. It's not that you'd be bad for liking it, rather that if you did like it at all you would be certain to like another version far more. There can be some debate about SCD vs Sat/PS1 but there's really none when it comes to GBA.

[Anonymous No.6373212]

>>6373193
fair enough

Expanding, I personally experienced the PS1 first, because I had a PS1 in the 90s. Oddly enough I heard of Lunar through game mags, and saw screenshots and it just looked interesting to me; and so by that and to be fair I never had a SegaCD nor a Sega system since I was a Nintendo kid prior to getting a PS1. So I immediately picked up both Lunars for the PS1 - and again I had no problem with Eternal Blue either.

Afterwards when I got an emulator I then experienced Lunars for SegaCD , and overall I liked it too - minus the cost of experience for saving in Eternal Blue, but I guess thats just a nitpick, and moot point since you can save a state. I never played Lunar on Saturn, and I do not recall seeing a Lunar game for Saturn on the states, but anyone please correct me if there was a Lunar on the Saturn officially released in the states.

[Anonymous No.6373215]

>>6373212
also sorry for the samefag, but to further expand on screenshots from game mags - it was around '97 and those were screenshots from SegaCD, and again It intrigued me.

[Anonymous No.6373220]

Sega CD version of Lunar 1 is inferior. The animations are rudementary and the storyline is basic. The PS1 game is basically a remake that is more elaborate.

Sega CD version of Lunar 2, however, is superior. It's basically the same game but the original had more gameplay and cutscenes and was more challenging.

[Anonymous No.6373430]

>>6373212
I got a Sega CD pretty early on and the Lunars were two of my favorite games of the whole 16 bit era. Eternal Blue especially really got me, I was a huge anime nerd at the time.

Because reasons I didn't have time to get to the remakes till both were out and I played Eternal Blue first because I liked it more in general. And man, it kinda broke me that everything felt redone in higher resolution but also weirdly shitty. I often post this comparison
>>6371654
>>6373160

The Illusion Woods goes from this place where there are invisible passages in tree trunks that lead to underground tunnels leading to all different parts of this crazy illusory forest and fighting the heart of it as the boss, to just some thickets where you have to know where to clear the path and follow a normal rout through some bushes.

[Anonymous No.6373453]

>>6369474

This is one of my all time fave games. I got introduced to JRPGs via the Sega CD original Lunar.

With that said... the first Lunar on SegaCD is a bit rough. The PS/Saturn remake is wayyyyyy better. Though it's an interesting play (and a fair bit more difficult) if you're into seeing the origins of the series.

Lunar 2 : Eternal Blue on the other hand. Sega CD version is hands down my ALL TIME favourite version of the game. It is gorgeous on the Sega CD (it's still 16-bit, and the colour palette small, but it's still very pretty).

You owe it to yourself to play the SegaCD version of Lunar 2!

[Anonymous No.6373467]

>>6373453

cont'd

I just want to add, I never actually come into this channel. I only just saw the box for Lunar on the main page and had to click in here out of love for the series (so happy to still see it getting players to this day... I'm serious, been playing this since I was a child in the 90s).

But yeah, I had to come in and just chime in on that fact alone.

So when I say play Lunar 2 on the Sega CD... FUCKING PLAY IT!

[Anonymous No.6375683]

cant believe people are complaining about Lunar 2's (Sega CD) supposed difficulty. kek

[Anonymous No.6376174]

>>6375683
I could see the argument with the Borgan boss fight, but I personally have a nasty habit of leveling up my characters a bit, prior to the next boss fight - so if you just have a high enough level with decent HP and MP , Borgan isn't all that tough.

[Anonymous No.6376961]

>>6373139
I quite like the PSP port for a better translation and overall feel. It's very very slow though so I recommend emulating if you go that way so you can speed it up

[Anonymous No.6377832]

>>6371769
>>6373040

I never knew WD fucked up the difficulty of the games they ported. I've always thought the Lunar Games looked beautiful, but was disappointed when I actually tried playing one due to the grinding. I might give those patches a try.

[Anonymous No.6377883]

I'll always have a hard time fully abandoning the Sega CD version of Lunar because, 1, I'm a fucking sucker for that more up tempo intro and 2, Alex learns magic in the SCD version, so instead of sword skills with different properties, he does fire magic and, more importantly, has healing spells making him a secondary healer. it always bugged me that when the PSX remake used the new skill set, it actually makes the Vane trial seem more filler because completing the trial used to be what gave Alex magic in the original

[Anonymous No.6378134]

>>6377832
You literally never have to grind in the Working Designs versions of Lunar. Yes they're harder from the original but that's a good thing. Just explore each dungeon and area fully and you'll be fine.

I have a real hate boner for a lot of what Working Designs did, but this is a rare example where their balance changes worked out for the better.

[Anonymous No.6378167]

OP here. I thought this was a cut and dry question but apparently not. I guess I'll have to play all four versions now.

[Anonymous No.6379528]

>>6378134
I can't defend WD's Lunar 2 paying to save ever. Sorry anon

[Anonymous No.6379610]

>>6379528
maybe, but was it like that in the original Japanese version? Also with emulators, it is a moot point if you want to play the SegaCD version

[Anonymous No.6379635]

>>6379528
It sounds shitty on paper but I can tell you never played the game. Outside of the first 2-3 hours the cost of saving is completely inconsequential. Unless you're literally trying to save scum after every battle you'll never even notice. And it's not even normal XP for leveling up, it's the magic XP for leveling up spells abd skills. It's never vital at all.

Don't get me wrong, I think Vic Ireland is a piece of shit and over all I would have preferred Working Designs never even existed. But the difficulty changes to Lunar are fine.

[Anonymous No.6379697]

>preferred WD never even existed

Then who would pick up the game for US import? to be fair at least WD brought the US these games, because I do not know any other games that would bring over Lunar, Vay, Alundra, etc.

[Anonymous No.6379702]

>>6379697
companies i mean

[Anonymous No.6381557]

>>6379610
>but was it like that in the original Japanese version?
No. You didn't have to pay to save in the JP version.

[Anonymous No.6381970]

>>6379528
>paying to save
what?

[Anonymous No.6382217]

>>6381970
After each battle you get regular XP that levels your characters automatically and magic XP that you accumulate and use to level up the character's spells and skills.

To save it costs some of your magic XP and people love to complain about it. But honestly I don't think most of them have even played the game. After a couple of hours in the cost to save compared to how much XP you get is completely inconsequential. Unless you're playing like an idiot and trying to save after every battle it's barely even noticeable.

Worst case scenario, if you tried you might be able spend every bit of magic XP to level up some skills and then have to fight a single random encounter to get XP to save if for some reason you wanted to turn the game off right after leveling up abilities.

[Anonymous No.6382361]

>>6382217
>>6379635
It's not excusable, sorry. I have played the game. I would never replay the games without the unworked designs patch if I had to suffer through it in english. Artificial difficulty is shit even if you say "oh it's just a little bit so it's okay"

>>6379697
I would have rather they were not brought over at all. Back in the early 00s I imported tons of games I didn't understand yet and made my way through with shoestring FAQs online

[Anonymous No.6382364]

>>6382361
Its still in english tho.
There's no undub unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.6382378]

>>6382361
Ehh. Like I've said many times, I have a real hate boner for a lot of what Vic did to the games he brought over. These just aren't ones that even register for me. It made zero impact on how I played. The shitty jokes, added farts and pop culture references are magnitudes worse in my opinion.

Also I don't really agree with the whole concept of artificial difficulty and I think in general the Lunars benefited from the overall difficulty increase. You never ever have to grind but the game still presents a challenge. I still blame Nick's Gamefan review fallout drama for people still complaining about Borgan.

Silhouette Mirage. Now there's a game he ruined trying to fix it.

[Anonymous No.6382379]

>>6382378
I just hate how shitty the english voices are compared to the JP voices.

[Anonymous No.6382424]

>>6382379
Ohh on that point I agree a hundred percent. I was a massive weeaboo when the games came out that mostly only watched fansubs and playing it with the bad dub was pain. Ghaleon is decent but everyone else sucks.
>hey Luna seems like she should have a mousey voice and my buddy's wife has a mousey voice! I'll just cast her!

I think it's telling though that they were such good games even given what he did, the game shines through.

[Anonymous No.6382970]

>>6382361
So then you played via hints without any real context of the story , because somehow that is better, k - interesting logic.......

[Anonymous No.6383070]

>>6382361
> I would have rather they were not brought over at all.

The translation sucks, so because my opinion is more valid than anyone else and nobody should make up their own minds, lets just not bring the game over.

Retard.

[Anonymous No.6383083]

>>6383070
He's not wrong. A shit translation is sometimes worse than no translation because fan translators don't often retranslate games. Sometimes fan translators are almost finished with a game but don't release it once they hear it's been licensed too.

[Anonymous No.6383419]

>>6383083
>Sometimes fan translators are almost finished with a game but don't release it once they hear it's been licensed too.
This doesn't actually happen. Usually, a translator will make some token effort at translation so that they can sit on the project and get e-peen from all the losers defending them online for sitting around doing nothing. So when the game gets an official localisation, they all say they were 90% done, but they're stopping now to respect the original creators or whatever.

[Anonymous No.6383771]

I have been slowly working through a backlog of older JRPGs because I love them to bits.
I hear very good things about this and Phantasy Star IV.
Which would you say is more worthwhile?
I will probably play both eventually.

[Anonymous No.6384047]

>>6383771
I'd say PS4

[Anonymous No.6385757]

>>6383419
There have literally been TLwiki translations that were practically finished (you could see the progress in real time on the actual wiki if you're unfamiliar) that stopped no questions asked for their localizations. Hell, the people behind the Fire Emblem if translation actually finished the main game and are trying to remove it from the internet because muh localization, support the developers. Yes, it happens. There are faggots that sit on untranslated games, sure, but if we had a site for hacks that properly bullied those faggots and if these trannies wouldn't crucify you for it on fucking twitter I'm sure we'd still be getting nice things.

[Anonymous No.6386120]

>>6385757
A translation on a website is very different from a translation patch, though. Most of the time those things are at least 80% MTL, and that's only noticed when someone comes along to try and hack in the text.

[Anonymous No.6386174]

>>6386120
They did patches, the wiki part was to efficiently collaborate on the translations. There was generally an extractor and an injector made by the hacker available for download on the project homepage, and occasionally partial patches would be released as milestones were reached.

[Anonymous No.6387972]

>>6383771
Lunar by a mile. Ps4 rocks too though. I beat it on the genesis mini a few months ago. Lunar is easier but less annoying.

[Anonymous No.6387979]

>>6385757
Absolute Zero Translations. That is all.

[Anonymous No.6389012]

I played the sega CD version. I ended the playthough jacking off to rule 34.

[Anonymous No.6389024]

I've heard each version has their charms. If you think playing one or the other will somehow better insulate you from Working Design's....Erm....."Unique" localization process, though, you're sadly mistaken.