/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6336761]

this is a shmup thread

[Anonymous No.6336763]

ikaruga the best

[Anonymous No.6336775]

name 1 good chinese shmup player
you can't

[Anonymous No.6336843]

>>6336761
>bullet hell trash
why don't you play psikyo games instead of whatever pink bullet garbage for trannies that is

[Anonymous No.6336852]

>>6336843
this^
my favourite toaplan game is Dangun Feveron

[Anonymous No.6336862]

>>6336852
i thought dangan feveron was made by m2 shot trigger

[Anonymous No.6336865]

>>6336862
>m2 shot trigger made Dangun Feveron
oh thanks for the correction

[Anonymous No.6336868]

is esp ra de psi worth the money on switch? it'd cost around £45, tempted to get it for flip grip tate

[Anonymous No.6336872]

>>6336868
yep the input lag is a feature

[Anonymous No.6336878]

>>6336872
how bad is it?

[Anonymous No.6336887]

>>6336878
take it up with MARK

[Anonymous No.6337069]

anybody here ever play viewpoint? been playing it on my 161-in-1 and am actually really surprised by how hard it can be. the soundtrack kicks ass though.

https://youtu.be/slwjhL3qxsc
https://youtu.be/VhFOlolrPTA

[Anonymous No.6337089]

>>6337069
once you get past the isometric viewpoint i found it quite a bland shmup unfortunately. fantastic music though.

[Anonymous No.6337110]

>>6337089
darn. any other good shmup recommendations for the mvs? i played through strikers 1945+ but it just becomes a bullet hell after like the 2nd stage.

[Anonymous No.6337113]

>>6336761
Shmups could have evolved the Ninja Gaiden and DMC route. Instead they turned into the dead-end evolutionary branch that is the danmaku.
I mean, imagine. Imagine a Gradius game that is to the original Gradius what the Itagaki Ninja Gaiden is to the original Ninja Gaiden. I mean, the Treasure game was great an all, but it was a retro throwback. Imagine a true evoluiton of the genre that unfortunately never happened.

[Anonymous No.6337117]

>>6336775
What the fuck is this horroshow, holy shit

[Anonymous No.6337139]

>>6337113
>shmup evolution
>danmaku bad!
>imagine fancy 3D graphics

[Anonymous No.6337154]

>>6337113
Space Harrier and Gradius came out the same year

[Anonymous No.6337213]

>>6337110
pulstar and blazing star are both good. my personal favorite is blazing star, really solid game aside from being relatively easy. pulstar is harder and plays a bit more like r type, slow movement with lots of environmental navigation.

[Anonymous No.6337247]

>>6337139
We already have shmups with fancy 3d graphics, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm talking about fancy 3d GAMEPLAY. Remember? They're video games. It's all about the gameplay.

>>6337154
2d scrollers and 3d scrollers are different genres. 3d scrollers should've had their own 6th gen evolution.

[Anonymous No.6337261]

>>6337113
P.N.03 was a very interassting game that mixed 3D action with 3D shooting, lots of emphasis on dodging projectiles and stuff.
It's a shame the concept wasn't developed further.

[Anonymous No.6337264]

>>6337247
kid icarus uprising on 3ds was an interesting evolution of the 3d rail shooter

[Anonymous No.6337265]

>>6337261
It was the early step that led Mikami to RE4, God Hand and Vanquish. Definitely my favourite modern action games, basically, but not shmups.

[Anonymous No.6337269]

>>6337247
>>6337264
sin and punishment would be another one

[Anonymous No.6337270]

>>6337265
Yeah, but PN03 did have the shooting elements. Most enemy encounters was about dodging all their bullets, and finding the right timing to shoot back. In a lot of ways it felt like playing a 3D version of Space Invaders.

[Anonymous No.6337278]

>>6337264
>>6337269
You're actually right, these two were nice attempts at developing a new type of shmup. S&P was closer to 2d scrollers (but in 3d) while Kid Icarus was more int he 3d scroller vein similar to Space Harrier, Star Fox et al.

Another interesting 3d shmup was Omega Boost, which was an ordinary 3d shmup like Space Harrier... except you were scrolling not just in 3d space, but also in a 3d sphere. Even in Panzer Dragoon you sit on a 2d plane that scrolls in 3d, but in Omega Boost you fly freely inside a 3d shpere, which autoscrills on a rail in a larger 3d space.

But none of these games would count as Virtua Ocarinas, Soulcaliburs, Metroid Primes and DMCs of their (sub)genres. We had a number of early attempts, but then it all just petered out and all we got afterwards were danmakus and ordinary 2d scrollers with flashy Unreal Engine visuals.

[Anonymous No.6337282]

>>6337270
That's true. I didn't think about it that way, but in a sense PN03 really was a preliminary glimpse of a 6th gen shmup in a sense. I sure with Mikami had more success with those GC games.

[Anonymous No.6337294]

>>6337247
3D NG plays nothing like original NG. Mechanically it's a different genre, it only retains a veneer of similar aesthetics and brand name.
A similar "evolution" would mean turning shmups into non-shmups, into a different genre....But with a veneer of shmup aesthetics. No thanks, I mean they might be fun games for some, but they wouldn't be shmups. So I wouldn't call it progress or evolution at all. The essence would be gone.

[Anonymous No.6337301]

here's ur evolution of shmups dawg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHv9QWuQI-Y

[Anonymous No.6337304]

>>6337294
Sure, and Virtua Fighter and Tekken barely have anything to do with Street Fighter, but they were an evolution of the genre on the most basic level. That's the difference between a game aping an old genre and an actual reinvention of the genre for new hardware, in my opinion. Oatmeal-era Ninja Gaiden reconstructs the classic action/platformer fromt he ground up, ditching mechanics but retaining the effects of those mechanics. Same for Mikami's way to re-enact the Castlevania and NG experience for the new generation.

[Anonymous No.6337305]

>>6337278
Uprising didn't spawn a bunch of copies because it would be so hard to do right. It had a fully voiced story that unfolded during gameplay and rarely pulled you out of the action, ground based 3D exploration, pseudo platforming, even online PVP. It showed so many potential directions for shmups and arguably pulled off every element successfully. Its only issue was it being stuck on 3DS so the controls suffered. More focused shmups that borrow a few elements and really polish them could be even better.

[Anonymous No.6337306]

>>6337301
>here's ur evolution of shmups dawg
FUK KOJIMBO HE A HAK

[Anonymous No.6337310]

>>6337305
I think Uprising didn't spawn a genre because all of its fans lost a limb while playing, unfortunately. I mean, I agree wholeheartedly. It was a very nice game too. But, sadly, it wasn't a great enough game to spawn a new genre.

[Anonymous No.6337329]

>>6337305
I thought it sucked, but it was a sucky version of Space Harrier or Star Fox not a sucky shmup

>>6337294
>3D NG plays nothing like original NG. Mechanically it's a different genre, it only retains a veneer of similar aesthetics and brand name.
this

the actual evolution of shmups is of course Ikaruga which is one of mankind's greatest artistic masterworks

[Anonymous No.6337340]

>>6337329
But Ikaruga is just a very good vertical 2d autoscroller. You may call it a pinnacle perhaps, but definitely not an evolution.

[Anonymous No.6337341]

>>6337329
Space Harrier and Star Fox are 3d autoscrollers, while Gradius is a 2d autoscroller. Different subgenres of the same genre - the shmup.

[Anonymous No.6337379]

>>6337329
ikaruga is one of the greats because it paved the way for the real greatest shmup of all time, exceed 2

[Anonymous No.6337696]

>>6337113
There are a fuckton of 3D shmups, Panzer Dragoon, Sin & Punishment, Omega Boost, Afterburner, Star Fox, even many """flight sims""" like Strike Suit Infinity are essentially that. They just aren't as good. Notice how as games adapt 3D gameplay they minimize or abandon elements of precise spacing and focus on other things, this is a huge problem for shmups because they are ultimate games of spacing, that's what they excell at and it's what they should (and have) capitalized on.

[Anonymous No.6337701]

>>6336761
Not retro.

[Anonymous No.6337720]

>>6337304
You don't even know what you are talking about in regards to NG ffs, Oatmeal Cookie did not "reconstruct the action platformer", he essentially made sequels to the arcade beat em up, the games have little to do with the NES trilogy, they are simply 3D beat em ups

[Anonymous No.6337737]

What are some good games as an intro to the genre that can be played on a modded Playstation classic?
The only one I ever got into was death label on the DS

[Anonymous No.6337749]

>>6337261
PN 03 is like a bad version of a rail shooter, once you enter combat the dodging nearly turns 2D and the shooting is automatic, and everything in between that is the usual modern game fluff or trash unnecessary unlockables. Rail shooters like Sin and Punishment did it better, especially 2, they have full unrestricted 2D dodging and FPS like aiming in a fully 3D world. It still can't do the cool attacks and screen space control of shmups but it has enough going for it, oh and it actually has a good scoring system, a central feature of shmups.

[Anonymous No.6337756]

>>6337117
It's a woman, gayboy.

[Anonymous No.6337763]

I need more beat em shmups.

[Anonymous No.6337770]

>>6337763
What game is this?

[Anonymous No.6337772]

>>6337737
Not sure if the ps classic has any compatibility issues but you've got a lot of choices. Difficulty wise, Gradius Gaiden, G-Darius and maybe Donpachi are good places to start. Besides that you've got Einhander, RayStorm, RayCrisis, In The Hunt, Thunderforce V, Xevious 3D/G, Raiden DX, Harmful Park, Strikers, Dodonpachi

[Anonymous No.6337778]

is raiden babby’s first shmup?

[Anonymous No.6337780]

>>6337763
Check out Red Star on ps2, and Chaos Heat even though its not a bmup
>>6337770
Cannon Spike

[Anonymous No.6337789]

>>6337778
In terms of mechanics yes its about as simple as they come, in terms of difficulty no, 2 is particularly hard. DX has the easy normal mode though, 3-4 also have very noob friendly difficulty modes.

[Anonymous No.6337791]

>>6337772
Thanks

[Anonymous No.6337801]

>>6337117
A sexy lady, a rare creature.

[Anonymous No.6337926]

>>6336775
Fucking disgusting.
Bet she can't properly bend her knees to get up if she falls on her stomach.
Why would evolution do this?

[Anonymous No.6338237]

>>6337926
>evolution
Lol, nature is mindless.. What a garbage theory.

[Anonymous No.6338239]

>>6337304
>>6337720
Additionally, take a look at the actual attempts at 3D action-platformers, they consistently struggle with one of the most fundamental aspects of the 2D games - seamless integration of platforming and combat. 3D allows for more unrestricted movement which is capitalized on with big levels. As levels open up, it becomes increasingly difficult to design enemies that can remain a threat to the player. That's why you see enemies become optional in 3D platformers, not just in Mario but even successors to 2D action platformers like Maximo. There is a clear separation between combat and fights, oftentimes the games even completely lock you in a room, a sub-optimal solution that misses the point of action-platformers. This is part of why 2D action-platformers are strong even today as metroidvanias, like Hollow Knight, that mix cannot be replicated in 3D. Shmups suffer from this to an even greater degree because the entire genre is based around controlling screen space, to achieve this kind of gameplay very severe limitations are needed. The best you can do is to preserve other elements like the presentation, concept and arcade style, but at their core 3D shmups won't really preserve any kind of "effect" that shmups have.

[Anonymous No.6338458]

>>6337801
>riceniggers
>sexy
Stop having shit taste in women.

[Anonymous No.6338468]

>>6337749
>PN 03 is like a bad version of a rail shooter
It's not, as I said it feels more like a 3D action game with certain elements from shooters. The dodge and shoot does remind of stuff like Space Invaders.
The game could have been better, but as a proof of concept it's pretty cool and unique. A shame it was too experimental for the general public. I'd still rather play PN03, as flawed as it may be, than any other generic 3rd person shooter.

[Anonymous No.6338698]

>>6336868
>>6336878
anyone?

[Anonymous No.6338760]

>>6338698
http://electricunderground.io/shmup-input-lag-database/

4 frames wireless, 5 frames wired to dock.
So it's "meh"

[Anonymous No.6338784]

[Anonymous No.6338801]

>>6338760
is 4 frames enough to affect playability? pretty sure most fighting games are 4+

[Anonymous No.6338868]

>>6338801
I'm okay with 3-4
Some say 4 is too much but I don't notice.

6-7 is when I notice

[Anonymous No.6338892]

>>6338868
Humans can't actually react this fast. In order to "react" on the scale of tens of milliseconds your brain actually memorizes situations and activities and readies your muscles in advance. So, after some practice, the brain memorizes most in-game situations and simply launches muscular activity BEFORE you see or think. That's how sports work too and that's why practice is so important in physical activities. Retroactively, the brain imagines itself to have actually reacted in time, smoothing outt he experience as it always does.

So, if someone's learnt to play with a particular delay, any change will throw their "muscle memory" off. Subjectively, it feels like delay. In reality it's just your learned reflexes being made inapplicable by change in timing. Objectively, there is no difference between a 4 and a 6 frame delay, because you can't actually see, process, make a decision and physically react in time fast enough anyway. If you have no experience witht he game, it's all the same for you: you will have to teach your brain to predict the next 100 milliseconds or so of gameplay and react accordingly, readying muscles and launching muscular activity in advance.

[Anonymous No.6338919]

>>6338892
There is ample evidence to suggest that the eye can perceive things happening as quickly as 13ms, you can absolutely notice but reactions are far more complicated than just perceiving a stimuli which makes understanding the exact way we process information and react to it incredibly difficult. Consider that video games are a continuous string of actions rather than just one isolated instance, and you will see that the delay starts adding up. And yes it's all muscle memory and anticipation, but that's an irrelevant point.

[Anonymous No.6338930]

>>6338919
They fastest time an eye can register something is just the beginning. The information is transmitted and processes several times on the way. Then a decision must be made. Then several parts of the brain enable the muscles. All of this takes far too much time to react to separate frames. With practice, it feels like you're reacting to extremely fast stimuli, but we know for a fact that this is not the case. Neurological communication, let alone processing, simply arne't fast enough. The brain just smoothes everything out to make it seem seamless and happening in the present.

[Anonymous No.6338945]

>>6338868
>>6338868
>6-7 is when I notice
me too.

[Anonymous No.6338964]

>>6337763
Ys Origins and Oath in Felghana

[Anonymous No.6338971]

>>6338945
That only happens when you play with 3-4 a lot and then switch to 6. Your muscle memory (which is trained on a very specific delay) is off, so you miss and it feels like you're noticing. Your brain is just rationalizing, though.
The point is, if you train your brain on a 4 frame delay, 6 will feel wrong. If you train on 6, 4 will feel wrong. If you haven't trained yet, there's no difference. The delay itself is shorter than the time it is humanly possible to see, process and physically react.

[Anonymous No.6339007]

>>6338930
Yes obviously internal processes complicate reactions significantly but this also illustrates that individual "steps" that are involved in reacting to something are extremely quick which creates ambiguity about what's perceptible. Because while 13ms isn't enough for your brain to process information and make decisions, how about 40ms? 80ms? And how does anticipation factor in that processing? Remember, it's a continuous string of actions where you're always anticipating what's about to happen. Also, lower input lag doesn't negatively throw off your muscle memory like higher input lag does, it gives you a greater sense of control.

[Anonymous No.6339009]

>>6338971
>If you train on 6, 4 will feel wrong
This doesn't happen though, it will feel different but it will never feel WRONG. Reducing input delay always made me play better and have a greater sense of control over my actions, it never threw anything off like increasing input delay did.

[Anonymous No.6339016]

>>6339009
It will, because rationalization has nothing to do with rationality. Reducing input delay may have worked for you because the games you play are more permissible with imput that is too early than input that is too bad, e.g. they buffer input a lot. But in many games moving or jumping etc. too early is just as deadly as doing it too late, in which case you will feel that the timing is off. For example, jumping early in a precision platformer feels just as bad as jumping too late.

[Anonymous No.6339019]

>>6339016
But that's literally not true, and you can test it yourself right now by simply enabling vsync while playing a rhythm game

[Anonymous No.6339029]

>>6339019
Actually I know for a fact that it is true for rhythm games specifically, because back in the days I used to play Space Channel 5 on the early emulators with everything being completely fucking off, learnt to play it pretty well fo lack of better things to do, then got a real Dreamcast and the wholeg ame felt mistimed as fuck. I knew what was happening, but if I was uncritical of my own subjectivity, I may've blamed the hardware/software. The difference in perception of 1-2 frames is entirely subjective, because that's not the speed scale on which human brain comfortably operates at all.

[Anonymous No.6339050]

>>6336761
>>6336763
Trashou rip off this

[Anonymous No.6339051]

>>6339029
a difference of three frames can absolutely be felt by the player. using SFV as an example, the quickest jabs are 3 frames and the game used to have 8 frames of delay. this made hit confirming from jabs into combos way harder and turned the game more into reading and guessing instead of visually confirming and reacting. it was brought down to 4-5 frames, and hit confirming immediately became way easier. not after months of adapting, but on the day of the patch.

[Anonymous No.6340861]

>>6337305
raiden v is a semi recent example of a tate shmup with voiced story that takes place during regular gameplay. not /vr/, but modern games are definitely trying new things.

i've been playing a lot of aero fighters 2 recently, and I don't see much mention of it in these threads for whatever reason. definitely worth checking out if you haven't played it already.

[Anonymous No.6341089]

>want to buy Pink Sweets and the Espgaluda I soundtracks to upload them
>they're $30 each and I don't want to pay that much for a few songs
how do I find someone to convince to split the payment with me and/or just buy it in my stead

[Anonymous No.6341230]

>>6337113
>Shmups could have evolved the Ninja Gaiden and DMC route.
Explain how the fuck that would work? Serious Sam in space?

[Anonymous No.6341529]

>>6339050
What'd you say

[Anonymous No.6342094]

>>6336761
I got into hyper duel.
im basically obsessing over it

[Anonymous No.6342220]

>>6342094
visually it reminds me a lot of pulstar, never heard of it before though. what about it has grabbed you so much, does it have an interesting scoring system?

[Anonymous No.6342238]

>>6342220
Not him but the scoring is very simple, killing everything, not dying and keeping your retarded helper ships/mechs alive for extra points. The survival's pretty fun and music/visuals are fantastic, the scoring might be good if you're new to shmups scoring.

[Anonymous No.6342263]

>>6342094
it's a fun game i like it

[Anonymous No.6342279]

>>6336763
>keep hearing normies talk about Ikaruga
>trying to get into the genre so figure it will be easy
>it's fucking insanely difficult
Eventually i used freeplay or something to see the end, and i remember not being able to believe my eyes with some of the bullshit the last boss was doing.

[Anonymous No.6342289]

>>6342279
Once the polarity mechanics clicks it's not too bad. It's all about memorisation, but those few reactionary twitch moments are manageable once you can read what you're seeing. I prefer exceed 2, it's the same sort of thing but less puzzle and more action. Fantastic music too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ8mYtZtGnQ

[Anonymous No.6342307]

>>6342279
Yes Ikaruga's not an easy game nor a very smooth entry point for beginners, most people who shill it can't play it worth shit and are just impressed with the gimmick and nice graphics, though it is a good game. That said, easy mode isn't too bad. NOrmal mode is only normal in the context of arcade games, and hard mode lives up to its name.

[Anonymous No.6342314]

[Anonymous No.6342315]

[Anonymous No.6342316]

[Anonymous No.6342715]

>>6342263
>>6342220
i already broke 1.5mil and im playing for 2 days,according to scores posted on shmup.org im at 20th place
this game is candidate for best shmup ever i literally can not stop playing

[Anonymous No.6342718]

>>6342715
keep going anon, you can break top 5 easy
are you emulating? i might give it a shot and see if I can catch up, /vr/ score chasing sounds fun

[Anonymous No.6342728]

>>6342715
2+ million is where it starts getting challenging because you need to start making some optimizations instead of just killing everything and not dying

[Anonymous No.6342735]

>>6342718
Yes Im emulating the arcade version on mame since its perfect.
The saturn version is only good on real hardware because the emulators have trouble emulating with this game.(except kronos but my pc is too slow for it)

Other than that playing on a crt with a $5 chink joypad.
I say give it a go its very pick up and play.
If you do,go watch the stg weekly 144 the guy gives a pretty good rundown.

[Anonymous No.6343624]

>>6336761
Not really retro but has anyone played Freedom Finger? It's a pretty good retro-style shooter where you can punch and grab enemies to use their attacks or throw them. Screenshot grabbed from google.

I think there was a Sega Game where you could also grab other ships and use them in a similar manner.

[Anonymous No.6345140]

>>6343624
it looked like a pretty low quality meme game from what I saw at launch. is there anything in particular about it that stands out to you?

[Anonymous No.6345339]

>>6343624
>I think there was a Sega Game where you could also grab other ships and use them in a similar manner.
Gay Ares?

[Anonymous No.6345346]

I've been playing the console Gradius games and I love them. I have an SD2SNES and Gradius III with the slowdown removed patch is fucking awesome. So far I've made it to stage 6 (the plant stage) on 1 credit. I also enjoy Gradius 4 a lot, which I've been playing on my PS2.

[Anonymous No.6345597]

>>6345346
gradius 3 is brutal. how long have you been playing it to reach stage 6?

[Anonymous No.6345998]

>>6345597
On and off for a couple weeks. I think the arcade version might still be harder than the patched SNES version, but it's tough for sure.

[Anonymous No.6346032]

>>6345998
keep at it. the arcade version is way harder, but you should be able to move to it after getting a 1CC on SNES if you have any interest in doing so. even the SNES version is harder than the rest of the series.

[Anonymous No.6348068]

>>6345597
>SNES Gradius III
>brutal
Lol, /vr/ shitters.

[Anonymous No.6348107]

>>6337069
There was a commercial clone released for early Windows called The Reap. It was pretty good.
Soundtrack was awesome.

Gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJTkln6acVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2PtGWtWGLk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IredsEnK3mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-qo6oqJvQ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuIkysrEs2A

Soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3gWE40-X-8

[Anonymous No.6348158]

>Solider Blade
>Thunder Force 3
>Pulstar
>Gunbird 2
>Ikaruga

[Anonymous No.6348169]

>>6348068
post your 1cc

[Anonymous No.6348267]

>>6348068
console is easier than arcade, but neither is easy. post your 1cc or i'll assume you're just parroting forum talk. SNES 3 is still harder than any other game in the series

[Anonymous No.6348574]

>>6337780
>Red Star franchise was a big enough deal to spawn a publishing company, a video game, a movie deal and even a sneaker
>all of it fizzled out into complete obscurity

Why can't we have nice things lads

[Anonymous No.6350049]

>>6348068
poast you're scoars

[Anonymous No.6350253]

>>6337110
>any other good shmup recommendations for the mvs?

Last Resort (Like R-Type)
Andro Dunos (Underrated horizontal shmup)
Alpha Mission 2 (Old style vertical shooter)
Sonic Wings 2 (Arcade vertical shooter)
Sonic Wings 3 (Arcade vertical shooter)

[Anonymous No.6350259]

>>6350253
Love the cover art of the CD version.

[Anonymous No.6350287]

>>6350253
all of these are great

[Anonymous No.6351060]

[Anonymous No.6352078]

How to access secret levels?

[Anonymous No.6352086]

>>6352078
Dats a good shmup right there contrarian fags say its to easy but didnt play it on master mode without useing ex arms and shield

[Anonymous No.6352187]

>>6336761
>Shmup thread.
>No Galshell.

Every time.

[Anonymous No.6352189]

>>6350259
Is this the one where at one point, you're in the sewers and there's a giant dead rat? I think it started with an A.

[Anonymous No.6353645]

>>6352189
I thought that was a euro game