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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/vr/ - Retro Games

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6075443 No.6075443 [Reply] [Original]

raspberry pis were a mistake

>> No.6075449 [DELETED] 

>>6075443
Its literally ridiculous that people using RetroPi expect to get support from the emulation developers. There should just be a staves boilerplate response asking the lines of "Your version of our software has reached its end-of-life. Please update to a newer version for support"

>> No.6075450

>>6075443
PC MASTER RACE

>> No.6075460

Mamedevs are a fucking mistake. Do you really need to change the entire room sets every version? I wasn't aware the fucking game data changed, oh wait it doesnt and that just them fucking around with the file system because they're fucking stupid.

Nigger wants to cry about accuracy when his shit cant even play ancient games like donkey Kong perfectly l-mao

>> No.6075473

>>6075450
>hooking up a PC that uses a fan to your TV

check out this peak autism

>> No.6075476

>another thread of zoomers whining about "free games software" not working properly on their toasters

>> No.6075479

>>6075460
just run your mame roms through clrmamepro or similar program every update

if you need a new dump you will be informed

>> No.6075483

>>6075479
Mame is literally the only emulator that does that shit. If it's a good dump nothing needs to change hence why your super mario bros rom you played on nesticle in the 90s will work just the same on an emulator of today. That ain't the fucking case for those mame autists tho

>> No.6075487

>>6075483
mame does that shit because it doesn't emulate just one game

the files in mame rom are basically how data would be spread between all the chips oin the board

>> No.6075490

>>6075487
it doesn't emulate just one hardware*

>> No.6075510

>>6075490
Yah but the data dumped from the chips on the board itself does not change just the way their program interfaces with it. I dont know why you need to update your shit when a 0 isnt going to magically become a 1 in your tmnt rom. I understand getting new better dumps but I don't know why the have to fuck with their file system so much.

>> No.6075524

Is this why we still don't have a decent N64 emulator? You would've thought it could just be bruteforced with a beefy PC after this long, but there's been pretty much no progress in the last 10 years.

>> No.6075532

Who cares, emulation for 2d was already good 15 years ago.
>Muh accuracy.

>> No.6075563

>>6075510
Because back when this shit was first dumped, people just called it whatever and considered it done. Now the romset is full of many ROM files that contain the exact same name, but completely different data. That is fucked, so the mamedevs have been going through and trying to make sure everything is unique. And here's the big part: If the data itself hasn't changed, all clrmamepro or romcenter needs to do is rename the files to get them current and usable.

Now I'm sure the mouth-breathers out there are frowning at their screens wondering WHY MAME won't accept mis-labeled ROMs, since an NES emulator will just emulate anything .nes you throw at it, regardless of the name. This is because MAME does nearly every arcade system out there, but the NES emulator only needs to emulate the NES. Without knowing exactly what ROM it is, MAME has no idea what machine it should be emulating. So if it isn't labeled the way MAME expects it to be, MAME won't recognize it, and assume it's a bad ROM.

TL;DR version: Anyone trying to compare MAME to single-system emulators is full retard.

>> No.6075584

>>6075563
>So if it isn't labeled the way MAME expects it to be, MAME won't recognize it, and assume it's a bad ROM.
running a hash check, even across thousands of entries, sure is a demanding process

>> No.6075586

>>6075443
Is it really so hard to declare SBCs as "unsupported hardware, use & debug at your own risk" and ignore issue reports/merge requests pertaining to them? It seems like developers like having reasons to bitch rather than doing something sensible.

>> No.6075605

>>6075584
Make a fork that hash checks everything regardless of name. Lemme know how that goes.

>>6075586
They already have. The problem is the retards who want to use a rasp pi to emulate arcade games can't into reading and still harass them to fix bugs for forks of MAME they have nothing to do with. It creates work for them to go through and clean up all these retarded reports. That's the complaint.

>> No.6075612

>>6075460
they dont change the entire romset for each version you retard, 99% of the roms stay the same

>> No.6075629

>>6075443
>using "meme arrows" outside 4chan

That's the real mistake here.

>> No.6075649

desu, an emulator should be both accurate and lightweight. They are not mutually exclusive things.

If they want to make an emulator that needs a 10 GHz computer, they probably should make two separate emulators, one with a goal for performance, another for the 10 GHz computer.

>> No.6075696

>>6075524
N64 are basically working "good enough". there are still emulators out there that don't even play half of their library which need more attention than N64 ones

>> No.6075697

>>6075649
Performance was never their goal though. Accuracy has always been #1, performance be damned. They don't give a fuck if your computer can't run it, only that it runs accurately.

>> No.6075703

>>6075649
>they should be doing twice as much work so I can play my blip blops on raspberry pi

>> No.6075708

>>6075649
Time to code it, anon! I'm counting on you, be the savior we deserve!

>> No.6075758

>>6075563
>Now I'm sure the mouth-breathers out there are frowning at their screens wondering WHY MAME won't accept mis-labeled ROMs, since an NES emulator will just emulate anything .nes you throw at it, regardless of the name. This is because MAME does nearly every arcade system out there, but the NES emulator only needs to emulate the NES. Without knowing exactly what ROM it is, MAME has no idea what machine it should be emulating. So if it isn't labeled the way MAME expects it to be, MAME won't recognize it, and assume it's a bad ROM

huh that explains the broken roms when i was a kid

>> No.6075818

>>6075483
>If it's a good dump nothing needs to change
Yes, which is why this claim is bullshit.
>>6075524
>Is this why we still don't have a decent N64 emulator?
Yes. The only half decent N64 renderer is based on code from.... MAME.

>> No.6075825
File: 424 KB, 514x836, aaaaaaa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6075825

>>6075818
>The only half decent N64 renderer is based on code from.... MAME.

>> No.6075832

>>6075473
>that uses a fan
you mean like a console? you can make an inaudible or fanless PC too if you're not a brainlet.

>> No.6075848

>>6075818
angrylion's? because HLE shit really needs not to apply.

>> No.6075901

>>6075443
On the other hand, it's not a good idea to throw hardware at programming problems. It's infuriating finding some random 2D platformer that runs like shit because the creator has an epic gaming rig and it works for them.
Optimization goes out the window as computers get faster. I think it's kind of nice that these devices are reminding people of the importance of fast code.

Now idk how much of that applies to mame. I'm not qualified to say if it's unoptimized or not.

>> No.6075924

>>6075901
>throw hardware at programming problems.
Like it or not, that's been the standard for about two decades. Why optimize when you can just raise the minimum requirements? This will not change either. There's no demand of any programmers to optimize anything beyond the bare minimum needed to make it run on current hardware.

>> No.6075946

>>6075848
>angrylion
Yes. N64 HLE emulation based on it working very similarly to Glide set N64 emulation down the wrong road for years. No one wanted to do things properly as hacking it up got them 90% of the way, and doing it properly would need massively more resources to run the same games. Ripping up already established code was also offputting. MAME's driver finally did things properly, and while it was very far from perfect it laid the groundwork for plugins such as Angylion and reinvigorated N64 emulation
MAME also pioneered 64DD emulation.

>> No.6075982

>>6075924
>There's no demand of any programmers to optimize anything beyond the bare minimum needed to make it run on current hardware.
There was for portable devices. That's how the psp got an N64 emulator before phones could do it.

>> No.6075995

>>6075946
MAME is also the ONLY working SGI workstation emulator out there.

>> No.6076180

>The most tedious emulator in existence.
>Update your entire ROM set.
>Sort through countless calculator and fruit machine bullshit.
>Developer complaining about needing more and more power to run shit from over 20 years ago instead of optimizing.
All reasons why I gave up on emulating arcade. Fuck MAME. Another classic example of developers getting hung-up on some philosophical bullshit, then going so far with it you might as well start back from scratch to fix it.
Same with N64s plugin system.

>> No.6076185
File: 191 KB, 500x364, 1468957732208.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6076185

>mfw MAME will never run anything more powerful than a Playstation 1 at higher than single digit framerates
>mfw other emulators already accomplished what MAME failed to do decades ago
>mfw arcade hardware has been PC-based for years, so "emulation" is trivial

>> No.6076248

It's half true since you need a decent computer to play anything released within the last 5 years, except they rarely do that, so it's irrelevant.
It's 100% retarded since you should never need such a high computing power to play this ancient shit unless you're a shit programmer that can barely do anything right. Of course, the primary devs can't add their own GUI, so of course they're shit programmers.

>> No.6076276
File: 304 KB, 467x667, mame developer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6076276

>mamedevs

>> No.6076289

>>6075443
>>6075450
ePSXe master emu. older versions work on a Pentium II.

>> No.6076304

>>6076276
Wow. It's like more autist Byuu!
But seriously, MAME is mess. Can they not understand backward compatibility is good to have?

>> No.6076308
File: 98 KB, 1856x428, gfct.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6076308

>>6075443
MameHaze is literally autistic. Give him a break.

>> No.6076312

>>6076304
Anyone can fork MAME and make it so it's backwards compatible with all older rom dumps. Can you guess why no one has?

>> No.6076316

>>6076308
>He honestly thought anyone on a forum full of arcade enthusiasts would give a squirt of deep fried piss about emulation of some shitty plug-and-play controller games.

Yep. Sounds pretty fucking autistic to me.

>> No.6076325

>>6076304
byuu has done enough that I think he's entitled to whatever autism he wants at this point. MAME devs haven't made any significant progress in two decades.

>> No.6076338

>>6076312
because no one autist enough and arcades aren't as popular as nintengu consolefags?

>> No.6076426

>>6076325
>MAME devs haven't made any significant progress in two decades.
>still using 0.37b romset
They added CPS3, PGM, G-Net, Zeus, Microprose 3D games, 3D Namco games, 3D Atari games, 3D Midway games, Raiden 2, Raiden DX, San Francisco Rush series, fixed a lot of games by Irem, SNK, Toaplan, just about any game using Q-Sound, finally cracked protection on a lot of games including Operation Wolf and Sunset Riders, graphical and audio fixes to countless games.

It's only the last 2-3 years they've been focusing on plug n play consoles, tiger handhelds, and Game&Watch crap.

>> No.6076472

>>6075443
mame has always run like a piece of shit, period

>> No.6076605

>>6076426
Hey, I legit enjoy the fact that after almost 40 years we finally have 1:1 recreations of original G&W games with full logic preserved instead of old simulations with approximated logic. Who knows how long would it take if not for autistic approach by MAME devs, who suddenly decided that everything in history of electronics had to be emulated.

>> No.6076634

>>6076426
>plug n play consoles, tiger handhelds, and Game&Watch crap.

srzzzzzly no one asked for this.

>> No.6076701

>>6076185
>mfw arcade hardware has been PC-based for years, so "emulation" is trivial
not funny

>> No.6076719

>>6076701
It's pretty funny when I can use TeknoParrot to run almost any arcade game made in the past 15 years with it.

>> No.6076757

>>6076719
>TeknoParrot
enjoy your malware

>> No.6076842

>>6076757
Enjoy your paranoia.

>> No.6076893

>>6076605
Why does it need to be part of mame though? Why dont they just make a separate game and watch emulator there are way more drawbacks than benefits to cramming all that shit into one program

>> No.6076901

>>6076634
I legit wanted a plug n play emulator just to see what they look like without composite artifacts.

>> No.6076914

i love mame and i play 80s and 90s arcade games on it.
i also love my raspberry pi but i use it with librELEC, its not for emulation, its just a quiet little kodi computer.
problem solved

>> No.6076916

>>6076893
good call
its Multiple ARCADE MACHINE Emulator. not slots or game watches or other bullshit.
and fuck MESS

>> No.6076958

>>6076916
>Over time, MAME (originally stood for Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator) absorbed the sister-project MESS (Multi Emulator Super System), so MAME now documents a wide variety of (mostly vintage) computers, video game consoles and calculators, in addition to the arcade video games that were its initial focus.

>> No.6076961

>>6076958
That doesnt make it less stupid

>> No.6077091

>>6076916
>>6076958
lol. what a MESS!

>> No.6077128

>>6076893
because MAME already has most of the code necessary for emulating games, you just only add code to emulate new hardware and it's done

>> No.6077142
File: 164 KB, 550x705, 1480484171203.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6077142

>> No.6077642

>>6077128
i don't think that's how it works, anon. you're talking about a UI or frontend like retroarch.

>> No.6077648

>>6077128
That's part of the reason performance in MAME is so shit. Every piece of code is so generic, that any per-game optimization goes down the tubes. It's not surprising MAME from 15 years ago runs 4-12 times faster than current MAME depending on the game.

>> No.6077720

>>6076719
>TeknoParrot
Not an emulator. Once computer architecture/Windows inevitably changes enough you won't be able to run it anymore and the cycle to do things properly starts again. Will never be properly open sourced/unprotected due to the all the stolen code in it.
>>6076185
>mfw other emulators already accomplished what MAME failed to do decades ago
Name one.
>>6076304
>muH "backwards compatibility"
You always post this and get btfo, why bother?

>> No.6077724

>>6077720
>Once computer architecture/Windows inevitably changes enough you won't be able to run it anymore
thank god for retro pcs then

>> No.6077730

>>6077720
Exactly, which is why MAME taking a long-term approach by merging with MESS is a good thing. Regardless of which way PC's go, MAME will be there and might have x86 based arcade machines working by then. It's not about things that just werks now, it's about a long-term solution.

>> No.6077743

>>6077720
Don't know if you've been keeping track, but the hardware hasn't been getting that much better recently. More cores, sure. But that's about it.

You could easily repurpose something like VirtualBox to run these arcade games and their embedded Windows XP using virtualization with 100% accuracy instead of doing LLE like MAME is obsessed with.

>> No.6077776

>>6077743
>Don't know if you've been keeping track, but the hardware hasn't been getting that much better recently.
Did you know the first Pentium 4 came out in 2000? Did you know the Pentium 4 didn't get replaced with the C2D until 6 years later? In the modern timeframe of 6 years, we've gone from Haswell i-series to Coffee Lake i-series. Take the first gen P4's and compare them to the last gen P4's and you almost double your power. Haswell i5 to Coffee Lake i5 is roughly the same.

It's not just clockspeeds and cores, it's the architecture.

>> No.6077813

>>6077776
Low level emulating x86 running Windows on x86 running Windows is for autists. You can't change my mind.

>> No.6077852

>>6077813
Of course not, you're a know-nothing loudmouth. You don't want to learn anything new, you just wanna yell at the mamedevs for not doing what you want them to do. Enjoy being angry and impotent.

>> No.6077856

>>6077852
Actually, what I'm enjoying is games that don't run in MAME and will never run in MAME (and even if they did, would run at 60 seconds per frame) in other emulators and API wrappers, where they run perfectly fine and have run perfectly fine for decades.

>> No.6077869

>Explain how MAME doing LLE saved N64 emulation
>LLE is bad!

>> No.6077873

>>6077856
And in the future those closed source solutions will only be usable on older OSes, which I already said earlier.

>> No.6077876

n64 emulation is fucked regardless of angrylion because the core emulation is still shit

>> No.6077886

honestly sega genesis is the absolutely most demanding system you should emulate on a pi.

>> No.6077893

>>6076276
8/10 emulation devs are furries, that's nothing new.
There must be some kind of science behind it...

>> No.6077897

>>6077893
not hard to understand if you're used to emulating your gender

>> No.6077908

>>6077869
N64 is not a PC. Thanks for playing.

>> No.6077913

>>6077873
Already pointed out that you could use VirtualBox (which is definitely open source) or any other open source PC virtualization software to do the same thing without LLE.

>> No.6078121

>>6077913
>you should use an emulated x86 system to emulate x86 based arcade systems instead of an emulated x86 system to emulate x86 based arcade systems!
What kind of point are you trying to make?

>> No.6078342

>>6075443
A lot of old games just werk though, including many that people care about. There's nothing wrong with it as long as you have realistic expectations, the real problem is those hoarders that download 500GB images pre-loaded with full romsets including several that don't even work.

>> No.6078394

>>6077897
Romsets that change every version yet 40% are phased out and don't work anymore?

>> No.6078421

>>6078394
yes

>> No.6078542

>>6078121
Are you stupid or you not following the entire "MAME only does LLE even when it's retarded" argument? Do you even know what the difference between LLE vs. HLE vs. virtualization is? Actually, don't answer that question. I don't want to catch whatever idiocy you've got.

>> No.6078551

>>6075443
MAME 2003 Plus is amazing. If they can't handle with the fact that more people would rather use old MAME before it turned into a bloatmonster, they can fuck off.

>> No.6078682

>>6078542
>dude, virtualization!
And people are already turning to PCem for win9x instead of virtualbox or WIndows built-in compatibility layer. If you can't understand why LLE is always the best form of emulation, the retard is you.

>>6078551
They wouldn't mind if the same people using it would bother the MAME 2003 Plus team about bugfixes instead of them.

>> No.6078820

>>6078682
>And people are already turning to PCem for win9x
Not really. PCem is still god-awful levels of slow. Can't even run Doom 2 at full speed even with it set to a 486-DX2 66MHz. PCem is good for PC games that are so old they end with .com (the file extension, dumbass) or games that booted directly from floppy disks.

>> No.6078842
File: 24 KB, 448x392, 1507562484938.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6078842

Who would have thought a bare-bones computer made for hobbyist robotics and engineering projects wouldn't work well at all as an emulation device...
Next you'll tell me a PSP or Wii sucks for video encoding or graphical design.

>> No.6078858

>>6078842
The Pi 3 and 4 are not nearly as weak as mr. autistic MAME dev is letting on about.

>> No.6078871

>>6078820
May DOSBox never die.

>> No.6078875

>>6078858
They're not made for emulating. Raspis were never designed as game technology. It doesn't matter how powerful they are, their power isn't lent to game performance. A jack-of-all-trades is master of none. Kinda like how the XBone and PS4 are damn good at playing games, but as actual PCs they would suck ass even with optimized code, because their circuitry is engineered for gaming and media play.

>> No.6078958

>>6078820
>Can't even run Doom 2 at full speed even with it set to a 486-DX2 66MHz
Just tested, you are full of shit. Runs Doom 2 at full speed just fine, as well as many Win3.x and Win9x games.

>> No.6079175

>>6077893
>8/10 emulation devs are furries, that's nothing new.
>There must be some kind of science behind it...
No science needed, just human nature. If you were an emudev, would you rather hang around 4channers constantly shitting all over you, or Twitter furries always vapidly supporting you?

>> No.6079275

Another MAME thread, another handful of retards who can't wrap their minds around it's very basic concepts re: getting it running and raging because they are too stupid to know you don't need to download the full romset, etc

I honestly never knew these people existed until I started browsing this board, it's shocking how many there seem to be

>> No.6079280

>>6075629
>thinking the universe began in 2004
>or whenever this pit began
>protip: don't actually give a fuck
You are the true mistake.

>> No.6079284

>>6075460
>I wasn't aware the fucking game data changed
Sometimes, the older dump was not perfect, so when someone manages to obtain a better one, the old one should be discarded.

>> No.6079287

Re: MAME adding other random stuff nobody cares about.. they've just about reached the limit of stuff people do care about, what else are they gonna keep busy with? proprietary arcade hardware died in the mid 2000s. System 246/Chihiro are just roided up ps2/xbox hardware, and anything much later and into the HD/LCD era is just PC based. I can't think of an actual PCB of note after Sai Dai Ou Jou and that's an outlier of it's time - every other CV1K game is in there too except for that. It's hilarious that people shit on one of the most ambitious and impressive pieces of software ever made, that costs 0 dollars, because they are too retarded to know how to use it. Casuals, man.

>> No.6079297

>>6078682
No, people turn to PCem because it emulates some particularly weird shit that DosBox doesn't. If DosBox does it, people use DosBox every single time.
t. PCem user

>> No.6079301

>>6079287
>MAME adding other random stuff nobody cares about
That's why I use ARCADE instead of MAME. Also the interface is better.
http://arcade.mameworld.info/

>> No.6079303

Mine just works.

>> No.6079310

Is anyone out there still trying to emulate Sega's Monaco GP from 1979?

>> No.6079661

>>6078551
>MAME 2003 Plus is amazing
>Can't even run Bubble Bobble properly
lol

>> No.6079761

>>6079661
You thinking of Rainbow Islands and the lack of c-chips?

>> No.6079768

>>6079287
Mame is adding all this other stuff instead of actually improving performance and making supposedly playable games run faster than a powerpoint presentation.

>> No.6079769

>>6076289
The first playable emulator I used was Connectix VGS. I don't remember clearly what computer I used at 1999 or early 2000, but I think it was Pentium 133 or 166. Tried Bleem! (I think beta version) before but no games are playable. Sony killed VGS.

>> No.6079894

>>6075443
>this piece of equipment that one can use as a NAS or any other sort of home server, useful in all kinds of small scale hobby project was a mistake because it emulates old games bad
OP is a fag, just like always

>> No.6079909

>>6079761
Bubble Bobble had a simulated MCU until 2015. Mame 0.78 has all kinds of made up shit to get protected games to work. The kind of people still using it probably won't notice the difference as they likely never even played the original games anyway.
There's an entire generation of tards running ersatz versions of arcade games that don't play like the originals because they refuse to upgrade. Doing so would also cause them to have a ROM tantrum as they will naturally need the missing MCU code.

>> No.6079920

>>6079909
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/libretro/mame2003-plus-libretro/master/CHANGELOG.md
>Added M6801 MCU dump for Bubble Bobble game is now 100% Emulated

Wow looks like you're a big stupid. Go sit in the dumdum corner, idiot.

>> No.6080005

>>6079920
>B-but they backported o-other people's work for one g-game!
Ok, does it also support all the Taito C-chips, does it use the decapped MCUs for Virtua fighter, Wing War, etc?
Does it fuck.

>> No.6080020

>>6080005
The list of changes is right there you stupid dipshit. Read it yourself. It's not like they couldn't backport the C-chip data if they wanted to. MAME is slow because it's a big bloated piece of shit, not because they added a few protection MCUs.

>> No.6080035

>>6080020
I'm sure the third worlders who use this shit were very impressed. If MAME is so bad, why don't they add new games to this amazing piece of software? How about getting Hyper Neo Geo to work?

>> No.6080036
File: 104 KB, 800x600, moving-goalposts.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6080036

>>6080035
And away it goes!

>> No.6080047

>Look up MAME 2003 Plus
>check the git commits
>devs mentioned they were scraping the bottom of the barrel earlier this year
>still no SF Rush games, Raiden 2 or Raiden DX
>dev says they are running out of games to backport
The problem with running off an old hacked version of MAME and trying to backport fixes into it, is that the codebase has changed drastically, and the amount of work the devs will have to do to backport fixes and new games into it will exponentially increase. From the looks of it, 2003+ is getting close to the point where backporting will be nearly impossible unless they rewrite their codebase.

>> No.6080049

>>6076426
>plug n play consoles, tiger handhelds, and Game&Watch crap.
This, I don't mind much. GAMBLING devices, however, piss me off.

>> No.6080053

>>6080049
I can dig it. Those are actual games(if shitty), but the gambling games are usually just slot machines.

>> No.6080064 [DELETED] 

>>6080020
>Read it yourself. It's not like they couldn't backport the C-chip data if they wanted to
And yet
>>6080047
>the amount of work the devs will have to do to backport fixes and new games into it will exponentially increase. From the looks of it, 2003+ is getting close to the point where backporting will be nearly impossible unless they rewrite their codebase.
It's almost like all that code wasn't useless "bloat!"
>>6080036
That's nice José, back to the Favelas with you.

>> No.6080780

is this why some games don't work

>> No.6080829

>>6079768
this

>> No.6080839

>>6080064
>That's nice José, back to the Favelas with you.
Back to /pol/ with you.

>> No.6080840

>>6080064
>It's almost like all that code wasn't useless "bloat!"
It's more bloated, there's no way around it.

>> No.6080857 [DELETED] 

>>6080839
/pol/fags are more welcome here than third world niggers

>> No.6081067

I don't get what the fuss is. I know a lot of people complain about the performance of MAME but you can literally get a MAMEbox for less than $30 that plays some stuff that people "have trouble" emulating. Take Namco's System 12 hardware, for example (Tekken Tag Tournament, Soul Calibur, Super World Stadium, etc.); you're not going to get consistent emulation without framedrops unless you have a Core 2 Duo clocked at 3.0GHz or higher. is that such as high demand to meet? Granted I don't know the voodoo magic behind the System 12 emulation code, as System 11 even runs on my fucking Intel Bay-Trail Atom Windows tablet, and both of the hardware platforms are based off of the Sony PlayStation. Either way, you can emulate these games without having to spend out the ass for hardware, just don't expect your hackerboard SBC to have the same level of performance as something with active cooling and better overall compute power has. A core 2 E8400 is at an all time low of $4 on eBay, and Socket 775 systems that can accept the CPU are also on the cheap; you can get all of this (complete computer with ample storage on HDD) for less than the price of a decent SBC and storage, and while it's not going to consume the same power, you can't have the best of both worlds.

>> No.6081871

>>6081067
Anything 3D in MAME is ridiculously demanding because they refuse to even offer GPU rendering as an option.

>> No.6081876

>>6079920
Fucking space invaders didn’t even work properly until very recently. Lots of games are still improperly emulated on mame. It’s a preservation project not something designed for people to play games on. It plays games as a product of what it is

>> No.6081901

>>6081876
>Fucking space invaders didn’t even work properly until very recently
Got any source on that?

>> No.6081906

>>6081871
While this is impractical in practice for hardware like the Sega Model 3 (MAME is literally doing everything in software; the PowerPC CPU, the sound hardware, the graphics hardware that's rendering texture mapped quads and the networking board), in some instances it works well. Take a step down, which is Model 2. Sega Rally Championship and Daytona USA almost run at full speed with 100% sequenced music sync and have networking fully emulated, all done in software. Granted you're never going to make this happen on a SBC, but it's far from impractical.

>> No.6081908

>>6081906
Problem with this approach is it's a dead end. PC hardware isn't getting any more powerful and the few Naomi games that actually work run at single digit framerates even on an i7. They're expecting PCs to become 10 times as powerful. It's not happening.

>> No.6081913

>>6081901
I meant Galaga but my point still stands. A lot of games have weird inaccuracies like this. They play perfectly fine but are by far not completely done and have many inaccuracies. Few games are perfectly emulated.

reddit com/r/MAME/comments/9v8zt8/is_galaga_still_imperfect_starfield_undumped/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=comments_view_all

>> No.6081917

>>6081913
>t-t-the starfield isn't PERFECT!
>the attract demo sync isn't PERFECT!
This is exactly the kind of autistic nitpicking that has everyone laughing at MAMEdev.

>> No.6081920

>>6081917
I pointed out that the games play perfectly fine. But to say this stuff doesn’t matter just isn’t true. By correcting the behavior it allows them to fix many other games that rely on that processor. Mame doesn’t emulate individual games, it emulates the hardware and strives for accuracy. It isn’t “autism” the goal of mame is accurate emulation and preservation of the original hardware.

>> No.6081925

>>6081908
I don't ever expect the likes of MAME to fully emulate stuff like the Model 3. Supermodel has replaced MAME and is almost just as accurate, and has a few enhancement options that I don't use but are nice to have for the people that want them. It also uses hardware based rendering but it comes with a cost; since the Model 3 uses quads, every time a GPU vendor updates their drivers, it might break compatibility with the emulator, so unless the developers have both multiple GPUs of each vendor type spanning various architectures, they're gonna have to keep updating the emulator. As of this post, that's literally what's in the latest changelog for Supermodel; Nvidia updated their drivers which broke how the GPUs render quads, so they had to update the emulator for the edge-case scenario of Nvidia GPUs.

Granted the emulator and its developers are not at fault here; that goes to the graphics vendor driver developers, since development and optimization goes towards the latest PC games rather than legacy 3D software. In any case, while MAME is never going to achieve playable Model 3 emulation, I'd like to at least see it play every Model 2 game out there, because the only other decent Model 2 emulator is severely out of date and has rather bad audio sync. The audio sync for Model 2 games in MAME right now is perfect, so as long as they can fix every other Model 2 title, it will successfully replace Nebula's Model 2 emu, that's if the MAME team is competent enough to keep the hardware requirements the same.

>> No.6081932

>>6081925
There's vanishing amounts of interest from the MAME team in actually getting shit working and far more interest in dumping more and more crap in there. I'm talking in general, not just arcade machines.

>> No.6081934

>>6081932
A lot of people don’t have the same mentality the project was started with. Which was accurately emulating each individual processor so you can have a built “machine” profile. Rather than fixing individual games, games get fixed by proxy if the emulation becoming more accurate. More people contributing to the project have begun fixing individual games which is causing issues.

>> No.6082006

>>6080049
The amount of effort in getting generic poker, blackjack and slot machines is retarded. It would have been cheaper to just get one of the hundreds of generic handhelds that do the exact same thing.
Lots of dumpers value quantity over quality in obtuse ways. If they see 4 poker boards for $25 each, they'll buy those instead of one $100 board. This convinces them that they got a bargain.

>> No.6082016

>>6082006
There is no effort in getting them working. They start working by proxy of fixing other things. Do you people not understand the mame dev cycle?

>> No.6082674
File: 130 KB, 979x686, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6082674

uh oh, shit's going down. Retroarch enabling as always.

>> No.6082847

>>6075443
The ppsspp devs said they know how to fix the horrific input lag in it but they won't because it will increase requirements and idiot raspberry pi owners will bitch at them.

>> No.6082856

>>6082847
it's not like anyone actually uses it after setting it up

>> No.6082862

>>6082847
what the fuck is stopping pi owners from using an old version like they do with mame that doesnt stop the mame autists from autisting, that is such a fuckin cop out excuse blame the raspberry pi lmao

>> No.6083109

>>6075443
Complaining about idiots submitting stupid bug reports is like complaining about getting wet when it rains. Rather than failing to prevent the inevitable, you should spend your time improving your process for managing it. Idiots will always do dumb things, but a better system for handling bug reports is actually valuable.

>> No.6083227

>>6083109
Spotted the idiot who's submitting bug reports for things fixed 20 years ago

>> No.6083476

>>6082674
Is that the hot new term for MAME autists? "enabling"? And what does Pi and FBA have to do with anything?

>> No.6083586

>>6081932
Because there are vanishingly small numbers of people who can do this work/will do it for free. The "dumping more crap in there" is all that is keeping the project going and producing the biggest gains as it fills in edge cases for devices used among many systems.
MAME now supports the beginning of hardware GPU rendering with laserdisc decoding offloaded there, so hopefully it will finally use the GPU for other workloads soon.

>> No.6083596

>>6075460
Yep. Just more excuses and just wont admit that they are just quite shit at programming.

>> No.6083645

>>6076185
its funny because you don't even know what you're speaking about lol

>> No.6083648

>>6076276
Fucking Swedes. Do you think he's actually an autist or just LARPing as one?

>> No.6083656

>>6082016
Effort in getting them, as in, wasting time locating and dumping them.

>> No.6083665

>>6077776
Consumer CPUs still aren't getting any faster, my man. Maybe when arm64 takes hold, but I think it's unlikley.

>> No.6083674

>>6083476
>MAME is open source GPL2, meaning people can use it and distribute it as long as they include the source code and the GPL2 notice
>Emubox makers on craigslist and ebay make "10,000 games for $200!" emuboxes using rasp pi's and retroarch loaded with a bunch of ROMs, don't include source code or GPL licenses since they don't care
>retroarch usually is used so there's a unified front end for the user regardless of how many emu's are used
>emubox devs took MAME code and merged it into their FBA core, and merely credited the mamedev instead of following the code license
>now stolen MAME code is being used in FBA core of rasp pi emuboxes

>> No.6083676

>>6083665
Put a Haswell and a Coffee Lake into a CPU comparison and tell me again they aren't getting faster. Stop looking at clockspeed and thinking it's all the same.

>> No.6083690

>>6083676
That was five years ago. They've achieved fuck all.

>> No.6083728

>>6083674
what they gonna do, rally the furries to sue RetroArch or Emubox makers?

>> No.6083736

>>6083690
And C2D/C2Q CPU's were hitting their limits when the i series hit the market. You really don't understand how important the architecture is do you? Do you think a 4mhz Z80 is faster than a 2mhz 6502?

>> No.6083742

>>6083736
I have no interest in clock rates, and already mentioned that a new architecture might (but probably won't) save us all. Did you misread 'arm64' as 'amd64'?

There has been trivial improvement ('no improvement' was hyperbole, as I'm sure you appreciate) in x64 in the last half decade. It's over.

>> No.6083743

>>6083586
>MAME now supports the beginning of hardware GPU rendering with laserdisc decoding offloaded there, so hopefully it will finally use the GPU for other workloads soon.
They're only doing this because the output is identical. They're too autistic to use GPU rendering for polygons because it might not be 100% accurate.

>> No.6083749

>>6083586
They can just keep dumping crap in there all day if they want. MAME isn't a dead project, instead it's a zombie, lurching around and becoming more and more bloated and rancid as time goes on. 99% of stuff they shovel in there never gets worked on or anything anyway.

>> No.6083752

>>6083645
It's funny because MAME as an emulator is dead, while as a giant garbage dump for every piece of code ever written for a CPU, it's fantastic.

>> No.6083753

>>6083728
They /should/ be getting a pro bono lawyer, sue them, and have a slam dunk case since it's so cut and dry, but they'll probably just bitch about it on the internet and do nothing else.
Its just like the several times SNES9X has been shipped in commercial products, they could have easily sued and seized the revenue, but in stead they just bitch on twitter.

>> No.6083771

>>6083742
And people said the same thing before the Pentium came out. And again before the P4 came out. And again before the C2D's came out. Your future prediction doesn't follow past trends.

>> No.6083775

>>6083771
And CPUs don't follow Moore's law any more. Good luck, my friend.

>> No.6083790

>>6083656
It isn’t the same people doing both though. I don’t get what you aren’t understanding here.

>> No.6083885

>>6077743
That only works for the modern "arcade" hardware like Lindbergh and Taito Type X, which are basically XP machines. And for TTX there's already a loader that lets you run the games natively without emulation.

>>6077720
>Name one.
Sega model 1, 2, 3, Naomi, Atomiswave, even the ST-V (SSF runs those far better than MAME except for the two or three games that don't run due to protections).

>>6077776
P4 doubled its performance because the Athlon XP was kicking its ass, and then the Core 2 doubled performance again because the Athlon 64 was kicking the P4s ass still. Sandy Bridge came out when AMD was supposed to do its big comeback which failed hard (and "sandy bridge vs bulldozer" rolled off the tongue so well too...).

There have been 0 performance increases since then, beyond clock bumps, because AMD has done fuck all ever since. No competition == no improvements.

Now that Intel is getting its asses kicked by the Zen lineup, they started working on an actual new architecture. It may take ~2 more years to arrive, but then we will see another double in performance.

>> No.6083896

>>6083753
>They /should/ be getting a pro bono lawyer, sue them, and have a slam dunk case since it's so cut and dry, but they'll probably just bitch about it on the internet and do nothing else.

The emubox people actually make money so they can throw more money at lawyers and win the case.
Doing it for free is not always better.

>> No.6083914

>>6083227
Spotted the mamedev tranny making more excuses

>> No.6083915

>>6083753
When you're in one country disobeying the Copyrights of someone in another country, it's financially unenforceable unless you're corporate and have a division hosted in the infringer's country.
When you're an emudev trying as desperately as possible to remain faceless and semi-anonymous, you're not going to bring up the case.
It's odd how they're convinced they're doing nothing illegal but refuse to show themselves cause they're scared of Nintendo and whoever doing shit to them.

>> No.6083929

>>6083749
Did they even manage to get the sound emulation working on certain toaplan games it's been like 20 fucking years. Like fuck I'd almost rather a rom hack that uses the sound from the genesis version than have something none working. I know mame dev's care about accuracy but delivering a fun gaming experience was the developers intent not this fucking meta shit mame dev's sperg about

>> No.6083934

>>6083885
AMD has their die sizes down and Intel still cant shrink their chips. AMD is going to get their cpus into way more things cause Intel cant fucking figure out how to shrink their dies. Intel is going to have to do something.

>> No.6083962

>>6083915
>but refuse to show themselves
Have you ever looked at the MAME source code? Here's Atari GX2's driver:
>driver by Aaron Giles
>Moto Frenzy and Space Lords protection reverse engineered by:
>Morten Shearman Kirkegaard, Samuel Neves, Peter Wilhelmsen
IRIS3130 driver:
>by Ryan Holtz
Gottlieb driver:
>driver by Fabrice Frances & Nicola Salmoria
Gaelco driver:
>Driver by Manuel Abadia

How are they hiding if they sign their names to every driver?

>> No.6083970

>>6083929
Which games? According to the bug tracker, there hasn't been a sound issue with the toaplan1 or toaplan2 driver for 10 years now.

>> No.6083971

>>6083970
Fire shark didnt have music last time I checked which had been a while but I didn't have any faith in them anyway

>> No.6083991

>>6083971
You mean those undumped MCU's they recently were putting effort into getting dumped?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdZsIrcyVRM

>> No.6084007

>>6083991
so they finally cracked the security im impressed

>> No.6084019

>>6084007
You should check the CAPS0ff blog to see how they did it, it's pretty crazy the shit they had to go through to dump these chips and bypass the built-in security.
http://caps0ff.blogspot.com/

>> No.6084025

>>6083753
>>6083896
i guess furries don't have freedom bucks after spending money on all those dildos and fursuits.

>> No.6084643

>>6083914
>get btfo
>seethe
Spotted the projecting crypto-tranny

>> No.6084695

>>6084643
I'm not even the guy you were replying to retard you didnt btfo anyone. Idiots are always going to send bug reports for old versions what that guy said is correct you're assmad because you're a mamedev tranny mad at what he said.

>> No.6085162

>>6084695
>i'm totally not samefag and that guy wo was totally not me totally wasn't btfo and was totally right
ZOOM!

>> No.6086163

>>6085162
You're only making yourself look like a bigger retard than you already are. If its zoomer to agree with idiots going to idiot than I guess I'm a fucking zoomer. Better than a senile retard like yourself

>> No.6086416

>>6076276
>He/him
>enby (nonbinary)
Thats not how that works

>> No.6086421

>whine about free MAME emulation
>still use MAME-completed 1CCs to dickwave

>> No.6086573

>>6086163
>If its zoomer to agree with idiots going to idiot
You're seething so hard you can't even make a coherent sentence, crypto-tranny

>> No.6086589

>>6076276
>autist
No kidding

>> No.6086627

>>6075443
raspberry piss lol

>> No.6086759

>>6084019
this is immensely entertaining thanks for linking it

>> No.6087325

>>6075443
They are, go get an odroid instead.

>> No.6087745

>>6083743
Slight OT, but does PCem/86box pass GPU stuff to GPU or software/CPU?

>> No.6088415

>>6087745
It's software with a recompiler.

>> No.6089197

>>6075443
Threads like this prove MAME's superiority. The software itself is a pleb filter. Only the highest quality, autist-approved code and dumps make the cut. MAME is a research project carried about by electronics and software engineers which continues to innovate, Retroarch is a TOY for redditors to play mario world in 4k

>> No.6089204

>>6075832
Not if it also has to be powerful.
>liquid cooling
Is a good exception sure, but how viable is that?

>> No.6089207

>>6075924
Sure, but there's no reason crypt of the necrodancer should require a beefier computer than a computer that can run Giants Citizen of Kabuto or Quake 3.

>> No.6089342

>>6075697
And that claim has always been some unsubstantiated bollocks. MAME is only the most accurate when nothing else competes with it. Generally it's rendering is just subtly wrong, usually because of the order of events its buffers operate under that's just stupid. 3D is a disaster because they want to implement a fully software pipeline to guarantee rendering pixel for pixel. Except their renderer is so bad it can't manage anything more advanced than a 1995 PC demoscene release.
No, MAME is not "accurate", it's a software engineering project to appeal to people who get hot and bothered at the thought of managing millions of disparate hardware under a common language.

>> No.6089353
File: 71 KB, 750x738, 1568422685209.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6089353

>>6083929
>delivering a fun gaming experience was the developers intent
No, the developer's intent was to convince arcade operators to buy their PCBs, goyim.
>NOOOOO WHY AREN'T MAME AUTISTS DOING WHAT *I* WANT INSTEAD!!!
Are you trying to compete with them? When are you planning to transition?

>> No.6089358

>>6089342
Don't go too rough on MAME rendering, it helped expose frauds like Billy Mitchell.

>> No.6089410

Muh accuracy for MAME doesn't mean accurate emulation in the sense of playing games frame perfect but accuracy in how the electronic components are simulated by all the different device drivers within the MAME project which fulfills their goal of preservating these game platforms by documenting them as portable program code.
If you have proper ROM dumps and computer code accurately describing what to do with the data then this will one day be the only record of some arcade PCBs that will eventually vanish. This has been stated as the goal of the MAME project since its earliest days.

>> No.6089415

>>6089342
Mame isn’t really designed for playing games anon. The games working is secondary to emulating the physical hardware. They don’t focus on improving accuracy for individual games. Much of the progress made is just from improving the accuracy of individual chips. I don’t think people realize that and that’s why people like you are so critical of a project you don’t understand

>> No.6089432

>>6076312
Because just about every MAME release since 0.123 has just made things worse for the games people are most likely to download MAME to play in the first place, so nobody should even bother updating?

>> No.6089436

>>6076901
Aren't most plug-n-play systems just NES or MD on a chip though?

>> No.6089459

>>6089415
I could respect that if it wasn't so blatantly incorrect. They have been pretty damned good at dumping the data, then (virtually) wiring it up as expected in the emulated hardware map, BUT when it comes to how the graphics hardware, sound hardware, custom ICs, etc. operate, they just base their stuff on the same released specs and reverse engineering that every other emulator writer uses, but then fail to implement them well. Don't think MAME isn't rammed to the gunnels with stubs and fake values just to get things running.

>> No.6089672

>>6081925
Serious question from a non dev: Why do MAME dev even work on Sega Model 3 when Supermodel exists?

>> No.6089678

>>6089459
It definitely is. But the core principle of its design explains these issues. It’s literally a jack of all trades in an attempt to mass preserve games decades from now. I agree with their stance, but in terms of actually playing games there’s better ways for pretty much every system it emulates.

>> No.6089685

>>6089353
What's ironic is the guy you're replying to talking about Toaplan sound was worked around by dedicated third parties who forked MAME's source code to add sample support, something MAME autists refused to do.

>> No.6089707

>>6089672
Autism.

>> No.6089746

>>6089436
There were a lot of them based on cartoons, like Disney and Nickelodeon characters, Spiderman, Star Wars, ect. And I remember a light-gun paintball game, and a dirt bike one which were not based on a license.
As far as I know these were their own thing, not NES or genesis roms.
They're all kind of shitty, but they were a weird 2000s trend and I find them interesting.

>> No.6089746,1 [INTERNAL] 

>>6089415

RETARD ALERT

You're a dipshit if you think that you can disconnect accurate emulation with playing the games, as if they are entirely different things. You need people playing the games in order to find emulation issues. An emulator where nobody is playing the games and reporting issues is always going to be a shit emulator.

This attitude is why tons of games still have sound and audio glitches despite being well known.