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/vr/ - Retro Games


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6008332 No.6008332 [Reply] [Original]

What's with so many people hating on autoscrollers? Is it speedrunning autism? I mean water levels, sure, most games have shitty water controls, but autoscrollers play just like the main thing.
>they're slow
So what? You need to go wahoo wahooo fast in every single level like a kid with attention deficit disorder?

>> No.6008335

When it comes to good series like Super Mario, people need to nitpick stuff in order to criticize at least something.
People need to criticize in order to feel like they know about stuff, even if they don't really have anything to say.

>> No.6008336

>>6008332
Usually they're difficult stages that intentionally throw as many frustrating enemies at you as possible, therefore people hate them.

>> No.6008362

>>6008332
I dunno, I don't mind them. They add some variety. I bet the people who hate them don't even try to get all the coins.

>> No.6008403

>>6008332
I don't really hear that. I personally like the autoscrollers in smb3

>> No.6008423

>>6008332
>You need to go wahoo wahooo fast in every single level like a kid with attention deficit disorder?
Indeed. I don't even hold down the run button. Just leisurely stroll through to the end

>> No.6008460

>>6008332
There's little reason to like them. Not a speed running thing for me. Why would speedrunners have a problem with it. Speed running isn't about scrolling fast. It's about completing the game in the shortest possible time. Artificial slowulty is actually more of a legit complaint than artificial difficulty.

>> No.6008467

Thing about autoscrollers is that if you miss a jump the first time, you have to redo the whole stage again.

>> No.6008904

>>6008467
Nah. You just load the last savesate

>> No.6008929

>>6008332
>they're slow
>So what?
You need to go back.

>> No.6008934

Autoscrollers prey on impatient people by making them have to take their time, which might be against their instincts.

By slowing down the progression of the level for the player, it forces them to have to deal with an obstacle they might of, if the level wasn't an auto-scroller, would zip right past and not have to deal with.

Using Mario for an example, you might have to stand on donut platforms that sink and fall into the abyss while bullet bills are shooting in your area. having to stay in such a hostile place for an extended period is more hazardous than just progressing past it. It extends the difficulty and margin for error.

>> No.6008947

>>6008934
It is restricting the player's options to create false difficulty instead of giving them the normal options to deal with the situation. The player is essentially being chained and given that most of the autoscrolls are on levels that revolve around small falling platforms, it's perplexing because those require the player to be patient and make calculated jumps anyway. Slowing the pace to a crawl serves little but to fustrate the player.

While you can make an argument it presents players with unique challenges to regular side scrolling, it is not compelling gameplay. It could make a great modern art installation though, where you could talk about the nature of Mario just running past problems and show how those problems still exist if Mario wasn't allowed to ignore them and how it comments on humanity's behavior of not reflecting on past obstacles and understanding them.

>> No.6009072

Most shmups are autoscrollers. Nothing wrong with them.

>> No.6009084

They are bad at a low level because they force the player into a specific pace before they are ready, and they are bad at a high level because you will almost outrun the camera in most cases and it removes the depth and excitement from going fast. They are mostly just a cheap gimmick for variety and don't capitalize on the best parts of platformers, and beyond that things like timers or moving obstacles that don't lock your camera are better ways to introduce pressure without limiting depth. There is a reason autoscrolling arcade genres focused on complex scoring to add depth, or extremely difficulty, it's because waiting for the game to continue without nothing to do isn't fun.

>> No.6009091

>>6009072
Because shmups have scoring or a good amount of challenge, early levels in old games like R-Type do indeed become a snoozefest very quickly like just about every platformer autoscroller, and it is a flaw even if it doesn't kill the game.

>> No.6009094

the anti-autoscroller propaganda needs to stop

>> No.6009098

The using muh add to justify uninteresting portions of games meme needs to end.

>> No.6009167
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6009167

My only issue with autoscrollers is when levels rely on cheap snaking paths that force you to run left and can result in you trapping yourself seconds before you actually die. It just feels shitty. Pic related. If the level is well made it can be a fun mechanic.

>> No.6009190

Because they are usually just trial and error garbage, like this one from Ecco the Dolphin

https://youtu.be/PHlNKzAL1TA

>> No.6009238

>>6009072
meanwhile 0 threads for shmups, OP is right

>> No.6009321

>>6009167
The worst part about those is when you move forward too quickly and end up dying because the platform underneath you hasn't loaded yet

>> No.6009326

>>6008332
>What's with so many people hating on autoscrollers?
it's because those people are stupid and gay

>>6009072
>Most shmups are autoscrollers.
>Nothing wrong with them.
>implying
not a great argument

>> No.6009339

>>6008460
>Why would speedrunners have a problem with it.
Because it forces you to complete it in a default amount of time instead of letting you beat it faster by playing well. Do you not understand how speedrunning works?

>> No.6009343

>>6008332
>most games have shitty water controls,
You complain about one meme but you fell for another

>> No.6009565

>>6009321
Yep, that too. Autoscrollers are only fun if they scroll in a single direction (usually right or up), and have a speed-focused approach instead of those horrendous glacially paced scrollers that take forever and love to trap you in bullshit inescapable corners.

>> No.6009570

>>6009339
Autoscrolling levels (and games that have a similar approach to movement/camera) are often the most interesting games to watch. They often end up focusing on engine exploits to push your character or the camera slightly futher forward than intended to complete the level faster. Look at the exploits for frame cycles in SMB, or the world record times in levels like Hog Wild in Crash Bandicoot.

>> No.6009571

>>6009343
At the very least they play very differently so it's not hard to understand why some people don't like them.

>> No.6009598

>>6009570
>Autoscrolling levels are often the most interesting games to watch.
They're boring as fuck to play.
>They often end up focusing on engine exploits to push your character or the camera slightly futher forward than intended to complete the level faster.
This is boring as fuck compared to utilizing movement tech.
>Look at the exploits for frame cycles in SMB
SMB1 doesn't have any autoscrollers, you can complete levels as fast as your character can move through them.

>> No.6009617

I dislike autoscrollers in platformer because they're typically boring and easy and grind the pacing down to a halt

>> No.6009897

>>6009598
The speedrunning techniques in SMB1 are similar, as it's all about using movement techniques to push your character forward and skip frame cycles by moving forwards faster than the screen/Mario can naturally move. It's the same approach taken in the Crash example I used (which from what I remember uses enemy collision and the "knock forward" as well as some smart corner cutting to progress faster even though you run at a set speed.

>> No.6009913

>>6008332
>So what? You need to go wahoo wahooo fast in every single level like a kid with attention deficit disorder?
A lot of games (especially newer games) don't get fun until they get hard. A game like Super Mario Bros is different because someone who's an expert can still enjoy the first world even though it's not hard, because the player sets the pace and if I want to I can try to go through the level fast as shit, and now an easy level has become challenging (or at least entertaining) again.

Auto-scrollers later in the game are usually fine because the player is expected to be decent enough that they can throw enough at you to make things interesting, but auto-scrollers in the easy levels of a game are mind-numbingly dull.

>> No.6010260

>>6009339
>zoomer projecting kek
I think you mean it forces (You) to do that. Speedrunners who know WTF they're doing find ways to beat it faster.

>> No.6010274

>>6010260
>Speedrunners who know WTF they're doing find ways to beat it faster.
Except that's rarely true. SMB3 autoscrollers can't be beaten faster, for example.

>> No.6010403

>>6010274
>Except that's rarely true
>I'll cherrypick one example

>> No.6011365

>>6010403
Name 20 speedgames with skippable autoscrollers.

>> No.6011452

>>6010403
>IM-FUCKING-PLYING
ok lets go through some more classic games with autoscrollers
Metal Slug 3 - unskippable
Shinobi 3 - unskippable
Megaman X4 - unskippable
Megaman 8 - unskippable
Batman Return of the Joker - unskippable
Turtles In Time SNES/Hyperstone Heist - unskippable
Ninja Gaiden 3 - unskippable
Castlevania 3 - unskippable

Thats just off the top of my head, theres way more

>> No.6011478

>>6008332
There's nothing inherently wrong with them (e.g. SMB3's Air Force level is fine), it's just that in practice almost all of them are slow and boring.

>> No.6011480

>>6008423
are una Chad

>> No.6012304

>>6011365
>>6011452
>skippable
Talk about implying. How is it possible that everyone doesn't beat each of these games in exactly the same amount of time? Specifically talking about this fucktard >>6009339
>Because it forces you to complete it in a default amount of time instead of letting you beat it faster by playing well.
Which is the post I was laughing at. Come on zoomers. Let's hear you kidsplain this one.

>> No.6012429

Autoscrolling levels usually make the game feel less interactive, so it's less interesting. You have your control limited in a way that feels artificial and unnecessary. You have to play less and watch more. It's tedious.

But yeah they're not terrible or anything. They're just a bit less good than the default. It's ifne to have some as spice here and there I guess.

>So what? You need to go wahoo wahooo fast in every single level like a kid with attention deficit disorder?

I need to do things in my game, as opposed to waiting and watching, because if I'm just waiting and watching then it's not a game, it's a movie. And i like games and sat down to play a game.

But yeah if they make it especially interesting somehow, or just don't do it very often, then it's fine.

>> No.6012665

>>6012304
>How is it possible that everyone doesn't beat each of these games in exactly the same amount of time?
because of the levels that aren't autoscrollers.

>> No.6012963

>>6012665
>because bullshitteranon was bullshiting
>because i can't into speedrunning
kidbased and kidpilled

>> No.6012964

>>6012963
You're annoying, I'm out.

>> No.6012968

>>6011452
Leve 4 boss in Contra Hardcorps to that list.
That has always been my most hated part of the game way before speedrun autism

>> No.6012969

>>6008467
Meaning there is low lenience for mistakes.

>> No.6012971

They're fine, and even can be some of the better levels, until you're on your 3rd+ replay of the game, then they're usually some of the worst levels in the game. Mario 3 has some excellent one with airships and I personally love DKC2's rollercoaster levels, but yeah that's pretty much it. If I like the game enough to replay it, odds are I hate these levels because I know all of the obstacles already.

>> No.6013034

>>6012304
>this desperate reaching after getting btfo with examples
oof
ouch
yikes
damn

>> No.6013384

>>6012963
are you on drugs?

>> No.6013714

>>6012964
>ima the 18+ rule
Mission accomplished

>>6013034
>BTFO
>oof
>ouch
>yikes
>damn
kek

>>6013384
Are you mad?

>> No.6013765
File: 944 KB, 400x227, 129164892643.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6013765

>>6008947
>false difficulty
Nice artificial argument bro