/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5618857]

Why has Ocarina's reputation gotten worse, while Mario 64 is more loved than ever?

[Anonymous No.5618867]

because ocarina looks like dogshit while Mario is at least colorful

[Anonymous No.5618875]

>>5618857
The Zelda cycle, man.

[Anonymous No.5618894]

>>5618857

Ocarina does a specific type of genre that other games have done so much better. It's a victim of its own success.

Meanwhile, 3D platformers sorta died and Mario is the only one still doing them. And most people don't even own a Wiiu-Switch so they never played them but they had Mario 64 as a kid.

[Anonymous No.5619225]

>>5618894
The only better game in the genre is majoras mask. And its not by much

[Anonymous No.5619228]

>>5618894
>>Ocarina does a specific type of genre that other games have done so much better.
Name five without listing other Zelda games.

[Anonymous No.5619369]

>>5619228
Ff8
Quest 64
Brave fender musashi
Geomon ninja
Shenmue

[Anonymous No.5619385]

>>5619369
lol every time

[Anonymous No.5619398]

Go outside for God's sake!

[Anonymous No.5619413]

Because OoT relied on being a 3D game. We now have thousands of 3D games that look better and play better than OoT.
Consider the targetting system. It is good just as a placeholder. You don't really want to play an action game where you don't have to aim, but it was better than nothing at the time, the priority was "show a 3D action game". The consequence is that, nostalgia and popularity aside, the first three zeldas are better gameplay wise. Once you know the story and looks of OoT, you will get more engagement by playing the older games.

Mario 64 on the other hand exploted the 3D environment in a way it had not competitors. It wasn't just one of the first 3D games, it was a great 3D game. It seems that even in this day and age indie devs are still copying Mario 64 (contrast this with the popularity of zelda 2d in the indie scene as opposed to OoT).

[Anonymous No.5619419]

>>5619369
>Ff8
>Shenmue

wat?

[Anonymous No.5619421]

>>5619369
>Brave fender musashi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_Fencer_Musashi

>Geomon ninja

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystical_Ninja_Starring_Goemon

Half of your list is not action adventure. Ocarina of Time has fuck all in common in game play with Final Fantasy VIII and Quest 64, which have more turn based combat than real time.

[Anonymous No.5619487]

>>5618857
Because we've been bombarded about how Ocarina is TEH BEST GAME EVeR since 1997, even BEFORE it was fucking released. The pre-release hype, the release hype, the game of the year awards hype, the game of the decade hype, the remake hype, the reboot hype, everything about this fucking game is just a marketing shtick. Some people like me got sick of it since it's a good game, but not the best of all time.
Mario was a game bundled with N64 and the reputation is growing stronger simultaneously with the nostalgia factor that people had. Not that they love the technics, graphics or the actual gameplay.

[Anonymous No.5619508]

>>5618894
>most people don't own a switch

Are you retarded? I know very few people without a Switch.

[Anonymous No.5619524]

>>5618857
>Why has Ocarina's reputation gotten worse, while Mario 64 is more loved than ever?
If you tried to imagine what a 3D Mario game might play like back in 1996, Mario 64 probably wouldn't be far off the mark.
If you imagined what a 3D Zelda game might play like back in 1998, it would have involved a lot more combat and excitement and a lot less running around doing tasks for NPCs.
The people who loved Ocarina most either never really enjoyed the combat in Zelda and only cared about the puzzles, or were kids who never played the earlier Zeldas so didn't know any better.
>>5619413
good response but:
>You don't really want to play an action game where you don't have to aim
This is just silly. I hate aiming in action games and almost never play FPS games for that reason. Dark Souls, Bushido Blade, Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, Ninja Gaiden, and the original Legend of Zelda: those are all action games that don't involve aiming.

[Anonymous No.5619527]

>>5619508
jesus christ anon I'm sorry for you

[Anonymous No.5619529]

>>5619508

Unless I suddenly got a job making 100k a year, I'd never buy a switch. There's under 5 exclusives that would hold my interest, and no, I don't play battle royale, souls, or sports games.

Almost everyone I knew that had them was obsessed with kid's games/or merely not into multiplayer at all.

[Anonymous No.5619545]

>>5618857
Mario 64 is trashed daily on every board, and has been for years.

[Anonymous No.5619564]

>>5618857
Ocarina has to compete with Dark Soul's 3 and other modern entries to the 3D action adventure game genre

Mario 64's genre is basically dead and only Galaxy 1&2 really did any better. Maro's fluid moveset is still unmatched.

[Anonymous No.5619571]

>>5619369
Quest 64 is the worst game I've ever played

[Anonymous No.5619590]

Because the game just doesn't hold up as much as people expect if you only start playing it now?

Back then, Ocarina Of Time was amazing, but nowadays the only aspect which i think still really holds up is the music, the gameplay isn't that fluid or fun, the temples aren't always the best like the Water Temple, the story isn't as great as people would hope and the world can at times feel really empty.

Seriously, i remember just a few years back running across the map as Young Link and getting bored as i was just going to another location without teleporting, the most fun thing being when the night came around and i could fight skeletons, even then, the combat isn't exactly that fun to me, particularly when there are 3D action games that are also kinda slow but more engaging during fights or are fast and more awesome to look at.

And the hype, good God, so many people call it the best game of all time or hype the game there is no way it can live up to someone's expectations, particularly amongst people or kids who didn't grow up with a N64 or weren't playing games around that time.

[Anonymous No.5619623]

>>5619369
>>5619369
>>5619369

Final Fantasy: All my friends have amnesia.
Quest 64 reasons why this game is fucking trash
Brave fencer musashi is an action rpg
Goemon? Ninja? Never heard of it must be some JAPANESE ONLY exclusive (it never caught on in the states bro)
Shenmue sucks a big fat dick and was never good.

[Anonymous No.5619634]

>>5619590
>the most fun thing being when the night came around and i could fight skeletons, even then, the combat isn't exactly that fun to me
yeah I think part of the issue there is that the skeletons just spawn a short way away from wherever you are and attack. In previous Zelda games the enemies were all around and there was typically a variety. In ALttP each one was typically in a specific place and so directly contributed to the character of the world.

Pic-related for example is a fairly specific scenario where you have 2 bow-wielding enemies and limited maneuverability due to the narrow passage, but there are a few objects you can pick up and throw. And this is just a minor obstacle. The whole overworld is full of this kind of design.

[Anonymous No.5619635]

>>5619228
Well, Dark Souls and imitators (eg Nioh) if you prefer the combat-focus over block puzzles.

[Anonymous No.5619641]

hail to the king baby

[Anonymous No.5619650]

>>5619524
Dark Souls requires aiming if you use a bow, as do most third person action games involving ranged weapons.

[Anonymous No.5619671]

>>5619487
Super Mario 64 wasn’t bundled with the console.

[Anonymous No.5619676]

>>5619650
the game is not designed around it, though. Plus you can lock-on with long bows within a certain range. If you eliminated bows entirely from Dark Souls the game would not change that much. The comment was:
>You don't really want to play an action game where you don't have to aim
You don't have to aim in Dark Souls.

[Anonymous No.5619707]

>>5619508
Because most of the people you know are people that are like you. Most people IN GENERAL don't own a console at all.

[Anonymous No.5619717]

>>5619413
OoT was a 3d ADVENTURE game, and there's not a lot of those.
M64 was a 3d PLATFORMER game, and there are a lot of those.

[Anonymous No.5619720]

>>5619707
Lol total BS. The percentage of 4chan nerds that own “gaming rigs” is minuscule compared to the number of console owners.

[Anonymous No.5619754]

>>5619720
did you read that anon's post at all?
4channelers are not representative of the general population
we're an incredibly small minority
the majority of the population in whatever shithole country you're from don't own a console or have a computer designed to play games

[Anonymous No.5619770]

>>5619754
Pretty sure millions of third worlders own a PS4 just for FIFA though.

[Anonymous No.5619801]

*starts the bandwagon of hate*

heh, nothin personnel... link

[Anonymous No.5619813]

>>5619801
I don’t know who this is but this picture immediately makes me not want to watch the video.

[Anonymous No.5619828]

>>5619413
>It wasn't just one of the first 3D games
It wasn't even that. 3D video games had been in existence for well over a decade. I, Robot came out in 1983. Hell, Mario 64 wasn't even the first 3D platformer since Alpha Waves came out in 1990.

[Anonymous No.5619832]

>>5619545
/vr/niggers are not human

[Anonymous No.5619845]

>>5619623
>Brave fencer musashi is an action rpg
So is Zelda dumbass

[Anonymous No.5619867]

>>5618857
Yea, Probably Emulation. Lack of Focus and Discipline too.

[Anonymous No.5619881]

>>5619828
Sure but Mario 64 is probably the first 3D platformer that actually had textures and didn’t have you controlling a crude 3D triangle or whatever.

[Anonymous No.5619925]

>>5619720
I think the guy in general meant "a device capable of playing new games" and included computers in that. Though you aren't entirely wrong, many games sold today have the publishers mention that the bulk of their sales came from consoles, and if PC was a more mainstream platform it wouldn't have to wait to get multiplats like spyro or rdr2.

[Anonymous No.5619931]

>>5618857
to be honest, I always thought that oot was overrated and mario 64 was unappreciated

[Anonymous No.5619942]

>>5619931
I don’t see how you could possibly consider Mario 64 unappreciated in any context. It won all sorts of awards when it first came out and is considered one of the best games ever made.

[Anonymous No.5619979]

>>5619845
2/10 you got me to reply to your shitty bait

[Anonymous No.5619994]

>>5619979
Not him but how is Ocarina not an action RPG?

[Anonymous No.5620009]

>>5618857
>Why has Ocarina's reputation gotten worse
Where?
It's still considered one of the best of all time.
Of course contrarians exist, of course, but that doesn't mean they represent the reputation of a game.

[Anonymous No.5620018]

>>5619623
>Shenmue sucks...
And with that we can safely ignore your nonsensical opinions

[Anonymous No.5620024]

>>5619641
Unironically true

[Anonymous No.5620037]

>>5619979
Why do you think musashi is action RPG but oot isn't?

[Anonymous No.5620126]

>>5619641
Such a great game

[Anonymous No.5620129]

*blocks mega man legends and ocarina of time's paths*

[Anonymous No.5620140]

>>5620129
based and goemonpilled

[Anonymous No.5620202]

>>5619634
Yeah, i think that was part of the problem, the enemies and combat just weren't that great when playing the game for the first time in...2017, i kept reminding myself this game would have been amazing when it was released, and it's certainly impressive, but aside from the music, i left not thinking anything was particularly impressive nowadays.

Other Zelda games are indeed more fun and more memorable...okay, so Ocarina Of Time had some cool boss battles, fine, but yeah, count me in as one guy who didn't think OOT was that great, and part of me wonders if it was just because i was so late to the party.
>>5619641
Yeah...no, i may not think Ocarina Of Time is the best game ever, not even in my top 10 list in fact, but i do think it's better than that game, the combat was more engaging and there was a bigger attempt at atmosphere, just going back to Hyrule and seeing the red sky and those zombies showed that Nintendo was trying to make something darker and cooler.

But MML is kinda just an average game sustained by having cute mascot characters like the servbots and, of course, Tron Bonne herself.

[Anonymous No.5620209]

>>5620140
Stop going to /tv/

[Anonymous No.5620291]

>>5620202
>i kept reminding myself this game would have been amazing when it was released
I was 19 when it came out and the 3D world was cool but found it kind of boring compared to what I'd been hoping for and what other games available at the time offered. There was Final Fantasy Tactics, Starcraft, Baldur's Gate, and X-Wing: Alliance. SNES emulators were getting good and the unofficial RPGe translation of Final Fantasy 5 was released in 1998 so I played that for the first time also. There was also tons of RPGs on the Playstation and many of them had better stories than Ocarina; or at least stories that interested me more than the one in Ocarina.

I'd played Mario 64 and Tomb Raider games already. I'm not a big FPS guy but had played a bit of Doom and Quake as all my friends were huge fans. In 1998, Half-Life had all the buzz for the 18+ crowd. Ocarina's difference was that it was an open world you could just run around and explore, but for some reason this just didn't seem like a big deal to me. I wasn't wowed by an open world game until Everquest, when the world was actually full of other players and real stakes.

[Anonymous No.5620593]

>>5618857
Because people circlejerked Ocarina for so long that contrarians had to counter-circlejerk just as hard, plus the passage of time has made people less enthusiastic about it leaving mostly counter-circlejerkers talking about it.

[Anonymous No.5620603]

>>5619671
>Super Mario 64 wasn’t bundled with the console.
of course it wasn't.

[Anonymous No.5620775]

>>5619634
LttP has better replay value for me because of it. Plus it gets me into action very fast with not so many cutscenes during playthrough..

[Anonymous No.5621069]

>>5620603
>PAL
Pfft who cares.

[Anonymous No.5621190]

>>5620603
It wasn’t a pack-in title for NA or Japan aka the territories that actually matter when it comes to the N64.

[Anonymous No.5621225]

I remember it being a pretty big deal that the N64 didn't come with a pack-in game. I never owned SM64 and I bought my console in march of '97. Still rented,borrowed and played the shit out of it. OoT was just a tech demo that had worse gameplay than it's predecessors. SM64 was a quantum leap forward for videogames.

[Anonymous No.5621258]

>>5618857
Speedrunners

[Anonymous No.5621261]

>>5621258
Both games have really cool speedruns though

[Anonymous No.5621267]

>>5620129
It's really sad that people point at OOT and say that it was the "first" of its kind when games like this existed before it.

[Anonymous No.5621393]

>>5618857
SM64 is still a contender for best in genre
OoT unfortunately had incredible innovations mechanically, but the game design is not that great.
Its telling that the most well received 3D mario in years went back to SM64, and the most well received Zelda distanced itself from OoT.

[Anonymous No.5621716]

>>5619641
if mega man legends had oot-tier controls, it would have blown oot the fuck out. it's actually embarrassing how much better and more soulful kattelox island was than oot's hyrule despite being made on worse hardware.

[Anonymous No.5621916]

>>5620037
Where are the stats in Ocarina of Time? Heart containers and equipment makes it no different than games like Metroid.

[Anonymous No.5622000]

>>5618857
I like oot, fuck zoomers and their dumb standards for old games.

[Anonymous No.5622661]

>>5618857
Ocarina of Time feels like a prototype of Majora's Mask. It's just so unpolished and bland.

[Anonymous No.5622702]

>>5621069
>>5621190
>N64 Units sold
>Japan: 5.54 million
>Europe & Australia: 6.75 million
>territories "that matter" bought less N64s than the ones that "did not matter"
Phew, so many dumb contrarians here it's just disgusting. I thought you have to be of certain age to post here.

[Anonymous No.5622728]

Ocarina's legacy is as an experience, that inevitably will get old to people over time, but nothing can change the experience(s) it once gave you. Mario 64 on the other hand has a legacy as an experience, but also as a sandbox. People are still improving their movement skills in the game to this day, while you can't quite do the same in an adventure game like Ocarina. That's why.

[Anonymous No.5622736]

>>5619228
>actually wants others to name 5
>/vr/oomer

[Anonymous No.5622753]

>>5618857
After the glitz and industry hype disappeared all we're left with it the games themselves. On the right you have what is a fun 3D platformer with intriguing levels, good music, and some clever star placements so that this game would still be seen as decent even if you took away the Mario coat of paint. Not a perfect game but still enjoyable.

On the left you have an empty shell of a game with a Zelda coat of paint, a dreadfully empty overworld which is the hub for the entire game and sees the player slowly traversing over and over again to progress (while simply walking past any enemies), and unlike Mario, which is a platformer that doesn't need deep combat to be fun - combat is an important part of the Zelda experience yet the combat in the game is so mindlessly dull, most enemies can be dispatched by simply locking on and spamming attack and the enemy AI is terrible with multiple enemies standing around and attack you one at a time. Again, Mario is a platformer so it's not reliant on needing to explore to be fun, somehow OoT is so devoid of meaningful exploration that a platform game does it better. Add to that the gimmick items only useful in one dungeon and the overly goofy character designs in what was once a dark series with Zelda 1 and 2, and even had spooky moments in 3, and it's easy to see why Mario is still held in high regard whereas OoT doesn't have nearly the staying power once people play it for themselves instead of relying on IGN's top games list for their opinions. Not saying OoT is totally worthless, it's still an ok game that has its moments, but that's all it is.

[Anonymous No.5622754]

>>5619994
>>5620037
New anon here, never played Musashi. But OoT doesn't have any stats or character customization in any sense. All items are just straight up specific-use upgrades, it's no different from games like Metroid. You don't find different armors with different stats to compare and choose between, you just get "the one that lets you into hot places" (like the Varia Suit in Metroid) and "the one that lets you navigate underwater" (like the Gravity Suit). You get health and ammo upgrades as items that are rewards for exploring or completing certain challenges (Metroid has navigation puzzles where Zelda has minigames), just like energy tanks and missiles in Metroid.

If you think Zelda is an RPG, then you must conclude that Metroid is an RPG, because there's very little gameplay-wise that separates them outside of the perspective. And before you say that Zelda's NPCs make it an RPG, I'll remind you that Metroid Prime 2 and 3 have NPCs, but no one calls them RPGs either. For a more retro example, no one considers Jet Force Gemini or Banjo-Kazooie RPGs either. Calling Zelda an RPG opens the floodgates for calling almost every game an RPG, and at that point the term is meaningless.

[Anonymous No.5622763]

>>5622753
>and the overly goofy character designs in what was once a dark series with Zelda 1 and 2, and even had spooky moments in 3

The goofy character designs worked better in Link's Awakening. They are uncanny valley in N64, which are the best fit with Majora's Mask doing both.

[Anonymous No.5622764]

Threads like this are a reminder to never, ever waste your time discussing these things with people online. It's a bunch of people spewing poorly constructed opinions and parading them as facts, believing they have some insight into things, and everyone believes they are smarter than everyone else, but reality were are dumb apes on an anime site discussing children's games. Evolution was a mistake.

[Anonymous No.5622823]

>>5618857
Because we are entering the age of Mario autism zoomers - see Supper Mario Broth. Sonic was full. Zelda just has nerdy fans, but doesn't attract the same level of autism.

[Anonymous No.5622963]

>>5622702
You forgot to include North America, dum-dum.

[Anonymous No.5623086]

>>5622963
No, I did not. I left it out because it has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to prove.
>hur they sold more consoles in 300+ million country
Amazing observations!

[Anonymous No.5623112]

>>5623086
And the N64 sold only slightly less units in Japan compared to the entirety of Europe and Australia. The N64 was a giant flop in the EU.

[Anonymous No.5623123]

>>5622764
We are talking about something subjective here, of course we are going to mention our opinions, yes, some people say their opinions are fact, but it's still an opinion.

But fine, since you are a fellow dumb ape on an anime site that feels like clicking on threads like this, please tell me your incredible opinion or fact about OOT and Super Mario 64?

[Anonymous No.5623129]

>>5622000
I mean...people do end up expecting a lot since a lot of people claim Ocarina Of Time as one of the greatest games ever if not the best, it tends to get so hyped you start building up something else entirely.

As for dumb standards, zoomers or whatever are used to other kinds of games, mechanics, UI and controls, and going back can be hard to accept or have as much fun with.

[Anonymous No.5623185]

Ocarina is QPU misaligned.

[Anonymous No.5623303]

>>5618857
Because Mario 64 set the bar and hit the peak for 3D platformers, a design that hasn't evolved to this day and thus Mario 64 is still considered timeless because of its excellent 3D platformer design. OoT on the other hand, while a classic, the Zelda concept has continued to evolve and OoT is no longer the peak of the Zelda recipe.

[Anonymous No.5623341]

Pretty much every mainline Zelda since OoT has been identical from a mechanical standpoint so there's more room to pick and choose based on minute preference. Mario games swayed more into more divergent, alternative approaches with different gimmicks, and Mario 64 remains the only 3D game with true-at-heart meat-straight-to-the-bone platforming mechanics that comprise the entire game.

[Anonymous No.5623392]

>>5618894
This guy gets it, a lot of people here don't differentiate between "it's been improved upon" and "it's shit" attacking people like those both mean the same thing. Ocarina of time was (and still is) a great game, the first to do pretty much everything that it did and since then the formula has been built on and improved a lot.

Mario 64 on the other hand is still the best at what it does, easily. The action platformers that followed never did quite match up to it. The biggest thing that always seems to be missing (including from newer mario titles) Is the SPEED. Mario 64 is still fun because of it's pace mixed with the acrobatics. It may be simple at the core and the camera can be wonky, but it's mechanics and gameplay have yet to be truly topped.

Ocarina of time isn't shit, it's just been outdone. The games it influenced have built on it's success while the games influenced by Mario 64 never really outdid it. It doesnt mean one was better than the other, it just means the direction things went from the two of them differed.

[Anonymous No.5623478]

>>5618857
If I had to guess, I'd say it's because there are still certain aspects of Mario 64 that you could argue are the best you're going to find from a 3D platformer. I'm mostly thinking about the core movement mechanics (probably the most important single factor in this kind of game), which, combined with solid level design, make the game a blast to play even now. It's still my personal favorite of the 3D Marios.

OoT, while it did a great job of transplanting the Zelda formula into 3D, doesn't really have anything that later games didn't surpass. It's just sort of the barebones Zelda experience, albeit done pretty well, in a 3D environment that developers weren't quite used to working in yet.

>>5621261
They're cool for different reasons, though. A typical Super Mario 64 speedrun that isn't going for zero stars or something crazy like that would be way more likely to inspire an appreciation for the core mechanics of the game, while most people know OoT speedrunning as "spin around, throw some chickens, walk through a wall, and watch the end credits". I can see how the former would improve a game's reputation while the latter would not.

[Anonymous No.5623537]

>>5618857
Mario 64 aged better, the poor graphics handled the mario artstyle better, and it was good enough for the platforming gameplay, while it wasn't for OoT.

[Anonymous No.5623549]

>>5619413
Name 3 indie games that play like Mario 64.

[Anonymous No.5623552]

>>5619508
>>most people don't own a switch
>Are you retarded? I know very few people without a Switch.
There are 35 million switch.
That's 0.4% of the population.
That's not most people.

[Anonymous No.5623578]

>>5623549
Not him but I don't think there is any 3d platformer that has come close to mario 64 in terms of controls, but nearly every 3D platformer has copied its level structure.

Indie 3D platformers are pretty rare, Hat in Time and Yooka Laylee are the only major recent ones I can think of them and both do this.

[Anonymous No.5623604]

>>5619720
>>5619707
>>5619508
>>5623552
Basically here are the two relevant groups of people
1. Owners of any console or computer able to play games, whether it's a fucking Xbox 360 or a PS4 or 10-year old PC with maybe one hard drive upgrade.
2. Owners of Nintendo Switch

The fact is that group 1 vastly outnumbers group 2.

[Anonymous No.5623669]

>>5623549
Hat in Time
Yooka-Laylee
Yo! Noid 2

[Anonymous No.5623742]

>>5622823
>Zelda just has nerdy fans, but doesn't attract the same level of autism.
try criticizing botw on /v/ and then claim with a straight face that zelda doesn't have an autistic fanbase.

[Anonymous No.5623758]

>>5618857
>Ocarina's reputation [has] gotten worse

[Anonymous No.5624719]

>>5619720
And the number of console owners is itself miniscule compared to the general population.

[Anonymous No.5624740]

>>5619228
Okami
Resident Evil 4
Darksiders 2
Beyond Good and Evil

Can't think of a fifth, I guess you win

[Anonymous No.5625060]

>>5623303
>OoT is no longer the peak of the Zelda recipe
I would argue that it never was, outside of the hype.

[Anonymous No.5625387]

>>5624719
see: >>5623604

[Anonymous No.5625442]

>>5623123
I don't have an incredible opinion. The games obviously have a lot of fans and have stood the test of time in that people still seem to be fans and talk endlessly about them. I'm a dumb ape as well, I'm quite certain of that, there are probably many people more intelligent or with more potential here than me, but you wouldn't know it because online interaction has become about picking a side and making inane endless arguments about it to waste time, and most people just fall in that trap. If you want to actually get somewhere you would use a thread to gather information on:
Why the game is revered.
And
What detractors have to say.
Put that shit on a chart, make an image and then have everybody's opinion actually represented and anyone who takes a look can get the info in one shot and move the conversation forward from there. Instead there are endless shit flinging festivals for hundreds of posts that are a waste of time to read as they are regurgitated over and over.

[Anonymous No.5625465]

>>5621267
It's how ignorant people talk. They pretend they know something about gaming history. What they should actually say is that it was "best of it's kind" and everything would be ok.

[Anonymous No.5625478]

>>5619813
At the time of the video's release he was respected in his field of video game critique and animation, but now people know just how much of a sellout faggot he really is.

[Anonymous No.5625507]

>>5622764
Thanks for your 2 cents, Harold.
>>5625442
>If you want to actually get somewhere you would use a thread to gather information on:
That's the point of arguing. You have an opinion, you share the opinion, and people who disagree criticize that opinion. You fight over who is right and in the process, you learn something. You get practice articulating your own argument and refining it for the future, and you might learn something from your critics even if they fail to persuade you entirely.

If you want to add to the discussion without taking a side but without being simultaneously a web blanket and an egotistical jackass, just chime in with specific knowledge on topics you're seeing while remaining neutral.

And yes sometimes you have to ignore retards spewing dumb aggressive shit because the world is full of retards and there are a lot of them here. Your alternative is to go to r*ddit and have retarded nonsense upvoted hundreds of times.

[Anonymous No.5625562]

>>5625478
Translation: At the time of its release I was a teenager and have now outgrown egoraptor.

[Anonymous No.5625589]

>>5625562
The sequelitis videos are all pretty good. Where the arguments are weak it's usually for the sake of entertainment (humor and pacing). The other videos are a bit more solid than the Ocarina video in that respect but given the absolutely incredible ass pain that ensued from infantile Ocarina fanbabies and persists to this day, I must tip my hat to him.

I had no idea who egoraptor was when I saw them. Based on a survey of his other content, I concluded that he seems to have put a lot of extra, thought, and research into the Sequelitis videos, but that his unrefined/off-the-cuff opinions were nothing special. Game Grumps was downright awful, I can't even understand how people can watch that shit.

>"respected in his field of video game critique"
No I wouldn't say that. But those videos were good no matter how fucking butthurt you are that he criticized your beloved Ocarina.

[Anonymous No.5625610]

>>5618857
Mario 64 was always loved based on it being so much fun. And to that point, other than fanbois trying to shit on the bandicoot, no comparisons were ever drawn betwren it and other games. People just talk about how much fun it is.

OoT's popularity is based a little of it's own qualities, but then 90% of it was:
>it's the literal best game EVER
>it invented auto aim and target lock on!(False)
>it's the literal most innovative game EVER MADE (false)
>it's better than all those classic 2d zeldas you old farts love so much (very false)
>who needs a playstation or saturn, each with dozens of great must own titles each, when you can just play OoT over and over again for 20 fucking years?
>and then try desperately to rub everyone's nose in it because of the monsterous inferriority complex of the OoT fanbase!
>oh, and OoT also invented horseback riding in games (laughably false)
>and it ws the first 3d open world game (flat earther levels of false)
>HEY GAIS! I READ ABOUT THIS GAME ON MY TOTALLY EPIC FACEBOOK GAMER GROUP! AND NOW I'M PARROTING IT AS THE LITERAL BEST THING EVER! AM I HARDCOAR NAO!?!?!?!
>blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...

It was always only a matter of time before everyone got sick of all the bullshit.

[Anonymous No.5625615]

>>5625610
RENT FREE

[Anonymous No.5625640]

>>5625507
I see what you are saying but it is far too optimistic in my opinion. Arguments on the net have devolved into just flinging shit for the sake of it. These threads have happened millions of times and nothing changed. You would think after all this time something would have progressed but if anything the exchange has vastly degraded in quality over time. It's an utter waste of time to read this shit. The motivation to make threads or reply is often times not to have discourse but to get replies and waste time. As time goes on the net culture just degrades further and further. You would think devoting this much time to fandom would make people able to provide more knowledge, but reality is somewhere along the line they got stuck in the rut of picking sides and us vs them, me versus you. The core principles of communication have mutated into simple bullshit. The ratio of good or insightful information you can gather from other peoples experiences and views is dropping at a seemingly fast rate, more and more energy is devoted to tasks with no assigned point or desired outcome.

[Anonymous No.5625686]

>>5619228
Every single game in the Legacy of Kain series

[Anonymous No.5625689]

>>5625589
>provide shit arguments
>I-I'm just a comedian
every time

[Anonymous No.5625695]

>>5625610
b-but NNNreviewersNNN gave it 10/10s! They also gave the dozen rereleases and the remake 10/10s!

[Anonymous No.5625702]

>>5622754
What separates OoT from a 3D Wilyvania?

[Anonymous No.5625707]

>>5623086
Explain why Star Wars Episode 1 Racer doesnt get the love Mario 64 gets when it was bundled with my N64 in North America?

[Anonymous No.5625714]

>>5623549
Poi
__
__
>>5623669
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong

[Anonymous No.5625737]

Im playing Ocarina for the first time and I can perfectly understand why people call it one of the GOATs. The controls have dated but literally everything else is so charming, adventerous, fun, and holds up so well for an early 3d game.

Only one question. Am I retarded or is there some hint that I missed to find the hookshot. Its hidden in a random grave that i didnt even know you could move. Someone had to tell me where it was. Im probably gonna never find half the shit in this game.

[Anonymous No.5625762]

>>5625737
I don't remember how I learned it, I just know I do. I think Dampe tells you about moving graves and you're just supposed to stumble on to it. That or maybe Navi frobs it.
>Im probably gonna never find half the shit in this game.
There's not a lot to discover, you've already found almost all of it

[Anonymous No.5625821]

>>5625689
>make a detailed accurate argument
>gets tl;dr'd by retards like you
every time

If anyone actually wanted to argue his main ideas you might have a point. But no, the only response from desperate, assblasted fanbabies is to take one error or minor disagreement and use it to dismiss the entire video. (and then lazily reply "t. arin" to any criticism).

[Anonymous No.5625826]

>>5625702
what separates monkeys from you?

[Anonymous No.5625885]

>>5625702
Okay, why is ZX Spectrum being mentioned so often these days, are the British and Spanish gamers here just feeling like mentioning that system and it's games recently?

Also, OoT has far more mechanics than just walking around and jumping, while you do have to collect items, they actually have their uses and there is combat, alongside other differences.

Willyvanias were mostly about just walking in some screens, jumping around obstacles and collecting a lot of items in order to beat the game, maybe one or two would have some sections where you had to use items, maybe that.

[Anonymous No.5626075]

>>5625826

no tail

[Anonymous No.5626091]

>>5625821
Weren’t several of his “criticisms” just him being bad at the game?

[Anonymous No.5626252]

>>5618857
>Ocarina's reputation gotten worse
>Over one hundred posts and not one person has even tried making a case for this claim being true in the first place

[Anonymous No.5626297]

>>5626252
Autistic nerds on the internet have been arguing about Ocarina since 1998. 4chan didn’t invent contrarian behavior online.

[Anonymous No.5626443]

>>5618857
OoT was critically acclaimed to meme lengths but unironically by game journalist sites which spawned contrarions years after who think its their duty to bash the game as the total opposite when really its just simply a decent fun game to play through. Yet people are compelled to think it can only be the absolute top or bottom. All because of some moron blindly overhyped back at its release. The games reputation is stuck like this now and theres no turning back.

[Anonymous No.5626465]

>>5626297
I just want to see some evidence there's been some actual shift in opinion on Ocarina of Time that isn't just some anon's personal sense of what's happened.

[Anonymous No.5626617]

>>5626465
for what it's worth(not OP), I just never noticed it before. I never liked Ocarina much, but it rarely came up. Someone would say Ocarina was their favorite game and I'd say that's nice. I'd see it ranked on somebody's top-10 list and I'd say that's nice here's my list (Ocarina wouldn't be on it and no one would care that much).

[Anonymous No.5626656]

>>5618857
Mario 64 lets you play right away instead of being talked at for an hour.

[Anonymous No.5626667]

>>5626091
which ones?
again you're just proving my point that everyone is immediately e-obsessed with Egoraptor himself and not how valid the points are. And sure some of his points are off, but not all of them. The part about the progression of LoZ, with its open world with "adversity everywhere," to Ocarina of Time full of sequential completion of tasks assigned by NPCs is absolutely spot on.

[Anonymous No.5626671]

>>5626656
OoT's intro really isn't that much longer than Peach's letter and the camera pan.

[Anonymous No.5626678]

>>5626671
There's more bullshit after. I got bored and stopped playing.

[Anonymous No.5626897]

>>5626667
I remember a lot of his complaints about enemy design being way off-base, because he never uses anything besides the sword to deal with them. A lot of the waiting around that he complains about is easily avoidable.

>>5626671
I think he means how long it takes from when you start a new game to when you actually get to engage with the core gameplay. It takes quite a while before you get your sword and start adventuring in OoT, while you can be at Bob-omb Battlefield within thirty seconds of gaining control of Mario.

[Anonymous No.5626917]

>>5619801
>*starts the bandwagon of hate*
I will never understand what motivates people to actually watch these youtube e-celebrities. I like youtube but when I use it it's to watch a music video or a scene from a movie.

[Anonymous No.5626963]

>>5626917

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasocial_interaction

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7-HzFax9fcxbuDiKPZGdIV69N5-MszEa

[Anonymous No.5627052]

>>5620202
> i kept reminding myself this game would have been amazing when it was released...

I was 14 when OOT was released and I found it rather disappointing. OoT replaced the combat and breadth of exploration in ALttP with pretty backgrounds, a repetitive cutscene, and horseback riding. While the game has great presentation and graphics, it ultimately lacks content compared to its predecessors and is significantly easier than any of the first 3 entries (not that LttP was overly challenging once you found some bottles and learned boss patterns, but man I died a bunch on that moth boss in the forest and the eyeball boss in the swamp a ton on my first playthrough).

Pic related - part of the challenge of the original game was rooms like these. Nothing remotely like this exists anywhere in OoT. Although substantially easier thanks to refined gameplay mechanics, at least LttP had rooms full of enemies like this.

[Anonymous No.5627073]

>>5623392
>Mario 64 on the other hand is still the best at what it does, easily. The action platformers that followed never did quite match up to it. The biggest thing that always seems to be missing (including from newer mario titles) Is the SPEED. Mario 64 is still fun because of it's pace mixed with the acrobatics. It may be simple at the core and the camera can be wonky, but it's mechanics and gameplay have yet to be truly topped.

>>5627052 here...

I don't understand the love that Mario 64 gets. It's almost impossible to die in any other way than falling off of a ledge unless you are like 3 years old. Again, great presentation and graphics, but the difficulty is lacking. Once the 'oooh' and 'aaah' of 3D wore off, I found that beating Mario 64 was more like a chore that you had to accomplish than interesting fun.

[Anonymous No.5627109]

>>5626667
I think the big one was him complaining about how easy it was just waiting for enemies to attack and then proceeding to get killed by a clam. Frankly that alone invalidates any of his arguments as far as I’m concerned.

[Anonymous No.5627196]

>>5626917
>I like youtube but when I use it it's to watch a music video
Egoraptor literally makes music videos. He got famous making flash animations on Newgrounds. He was good at it, and migrated to youtube because why not? How is this in any way difficult to understand?

[Anonymous No.5627198]

>>5627109
>Frankly that alone invalidates any of his arguments as far as I’m concerned
You're literally proving my point.

[Anonymous No.5627273]

>>5627198
Not really. If you’re that bad at a game’s basic mechanics, you don’t deserve to criticize it. This is why I don’t listen to any of /v/‘s and most of this board’s critiques on games.

[Anonymous No.5627310]

>>5626667
>bitches about having to stand around waiting for enemies to drop their guard
>picks up some Deku Nuts in his OoT let's play and starts laughing about what a pointless item they are

[Anonymous No.5627317]

>>5627196
>Egoraptor literally makes music videos.
No, I mean real music videos, for actual bands. Not people who are "famous" on youtube.

[Anonymous No.5627329]

>>5627198
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.5627478]

>>5618857
because egoraptor made a video about the former and 11 year olds on the internet are bad at forming their own opinions

[Anonymous No.5627479]

>>5618857
There's been better Zelda games released after OoT.
Mario 64 is still unmatched.

[Anonymous No.5627485]

>>5626252
it's definitely true. over time, i've noticed a lot more zelda fans saying that oot was overrated and majora's mask was better all along.

[Anonymous No.5627506]

>>5627485
they watched the sequelitis video and then they watched some cringey bendrowned game theory video and then formed all their opinions around those

[Anonymous No.5627519]

>>5627485
>it's definitely true. over time, i've noticed
>i've noticed
>>5626465
>I just want to see some evidence there's been some actual shift in opinion on Ocarina of Time that isn't just some anon's personal sense of what's happened.

[Anonymous No.5627528]

>>5627519
im not really sure how you'd quantify something like that

[Anonymous No.5627540]

>>5627478
>because egoraptor made a video about the former and 11 year olds on the internet are bad at forming their own opinions
It makes me irrationally angry that people are enabling these youtube "celebrities" and treating them like actual celebrities. Celebrities are supposed to be professional athletes, film actors, and recording artists on mainstream record labels, not random nobodies who post videos of themselves talking while playing video games on youtube.

[Anonymous No.5627547]

>>5627506
This. Majora’s Mask is a perfectly fine Zelda game but I swear all the praise about it being “surreal” and “dark” comes from various fan theories and that fan made movie trailer from a few years ago.

[Anonymous No.5627552]

>>5627528
I'm not sure why everyone's so sure this is a real thing when all they have to go off of is their own subjective impression of what probably amounts to a vanishingly small fraction of the overall "played OoT" population.

[Anonymous No.5627742]

>>5627273
If you're this bad at elementary logic you should not be arguing at all.
>>5627310
>I watch e-celeb let's plays
>>5627317
>No, I mean real music videos, for actual bands.
>>5627540
>Celebrities are supposed to be
Jesus Christ how do any of you dumbasses even function?
>>5627478
As posters in this thread have proved conclusively, retards are everywhere. People ITT clearly haven't even seen the infamous video or formed a real opinion about it. They just post the laziest, dumbest fallacies and actually seem completely and utterly unaware they're doing it.

[Anonymous No.5627762]

>>5627742
I’ve seen all of egoraptor’s OoT related videos and I don’t think he has a leg to stand on overall. Based on the video he presented, he’s legitimately bad at playing the game he’s reviewing.

[Anonymous No.5627776]

>>5627540
>Celebrities are supposed to be professional athletes, film actors, and recording artists on mainstream record labels
implying

[Anonymous No.5627909]

>>5627073
The reason is twofold: First, just because you don't die, doesn't mean you're easily completing the challenges set out before you. If you fail to complete a certain jump half a dozen times or miss the coins that you were supposed to launch through, you've still got to set up and try again. Plus, the later courses absolutely present a reasonable possibility of death through their bottomless pits.

Second and perhaps more importantly, Super Mario 64 has an incredibly high skill ceiling, which is why the speedrunning community is so insane. It's a game that's easy to beat but very difficult to truly master. This is related to how fun and fluid it is just to move around.

>>5627540
Says who?

[Anonymous No.5629558]

>>5627909
Single-player games all have extremely low skill ceilings and that ceiling is the point where you are skilled enough to beat the game. Past that point any skill is irrelevant.

Mario 64 has amazing movement and probably the best of any 3d platformer before or since, but it makes the mistake so many games make of having deep mechanics/system that you never actually have to engage with to complete the game.

There are never any complicated sequences of jumps you need to pull off and you rarely ever need anything more than a basic jump or a long jump. If I remember correctly there's only one star in the entire game that you need the wall jump to get to.

Mario 64's mechanics are wasted on it and I've had way more fun playing romhacks than I ever did playing the real game.

[Anonymous No.5629815]

>>5629558
>>5627073 and >>5627052 here...

I'm not a speed run enthusiast, and that niche market doesn't account for the wide acclaim that Mario 64 receives.

I couldn't have said what you just described any better myself. Both Mario 64 and OoT give you a robust moveset that largely goes to waste because the games are simple enough to beat with 1-2 basic moves.

>>5627909
The risk of dying in levels littered with enemies and the risk of losing progress was a significant part of the challenge of Super Mario Bros 1-3 and Super Mario World. You had both the platforming challenge *and* the challenge of getting past all of the bad guys in front of you (pic related). The latter was completely stripped out of Mario 64 and the game is substantially worse for it.

I can't even consider OoT and Mario 64 the best in their series up to that point. The fact that people are still talking about them being the best games ever 20 years later in lieu of SMB3 and ALttP has me completely flabbergasted.

[Anonymous No.5630421]

>>5629558
Man if only Super Mario 64 had extremely open-ended level design that allows for multiple approaches to reach the same part of the level that a star is contained in that was specifically that way to let you use the insane amount of movement options available to you to reach your goal area in any manner you wish.

If you honestly can't appreciate deep movement mechanics just because there isn't some linear obstacle course forcing you to use them, that's a problem with you.

[Anonymous No.5630468]

>>5629558
Like >>5630421 said, the level design in SM64 is such that you can approach a lot of stars from a variety of different angles. Now, I'm sure a lot of the potential approaches weren't even dreamed of by the developers, but I would argue that that just speaks to the brilliance of the game's core mechanics. And since a lot of these paths *were* put there intentionally, I'd also say that the game invites you to complete it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Further evidence for this design philosophy can be found in the fact that you don't need all the stars to see the end credits.

As far as romhacks are concerned, I'm with you insofar as I love playing hacks that force the player to take greater advantage of the game's movement. But I just see the modding community as another point in SM64's favor. An active modding community is a large part of why games like DOOM and Morrowind are still remembered so fondly, and the same is true for SM64.

>>5629815
You do lose progress when you fail a jump. You just don't get booted out of the level. I will agree that enemies not being nearly as much of a threat is a significant drawback, but that's something that has always been an issue for 3D platformers just by virtue of the fact that you typically don't even need to engage with the enemies.

[Anonymous No.5630692]

>>5630421
>Man if only Super Mario 64 had extremely open-ended level design that allows for multiple approaches to reach the same part of the level that a star is contained in that was specifically that way to let you use the insane amount of movement options available to you to reach your goal area in any manner you wish.

Except that's all moot because the game is ridiculously easy no matter which route you choose. Unless you are doing a speedrun, there's no incentive to taking shortcuts.

>If you honestly can't appreciate deep movement mechanics just because there isn't some linear obstacle course forcing you to use them, that's a problem with you.

If you can't understand why a game that is easy enough that a 6 year old can beat it without dying is not good, that's a problem with you.

>>5630468
> You do lose progress when you fail a jump. You just don't get booted out of the level.

Yea, that's not remotely the same thing.

[Anonymous No.5630773]

After playing both again recently, I think Ocarina holds up better.

Mario 64 outright recycles most of its stars. Some of them are exact copy-pastes with very minor changes, like the first two stars in both Bob-Omb Battlefield and Whomp's Fortress.

[Anonymous No.5631124]

>>5619487
>or the actual gameplay

woah, woah, woah

[Anonymous No.5633067]

>>5630692
I imagine you don't have very much fun playing games at all if you're only concerned with what you're outright forced to do at any given time and ignore all potential for player creativity. SM64 would not be anywhere near as fondly remembered if it was a bunch of kaizo-style hallways that MADE you do specific movement things to progress or else you died. The brilliance in the design is in handing the reigns to the player.

[Anonymous No.5633106]

>>5618857
Ocarina was never topped. Zelda games are plagued with gimmicks: cartoon graphics, edginess, motion controls, open world...nothing has done a pure, straight forward action adventure like OOT. It breeds resentment and contrarianism.

[Anonymous No.5633129]

>>5633106
Wind Waker fan here. I think that game does a terrific job of giving you a sense of setting out on a grand adventure. I never particularly like Ocarina's art style. It's such an odd mixed bag of "realistic" character models like Link combined with whatever this monstrosity is supposed to be.

[Anonymous No.5633150]

>>5633106
TP is better than OoT. ALttP is still widely agreed upon as the best game in the series. I was a kid when OoT came out, I remember all the hype. It only serves as a poorly aged tech demo anymore.

[Anonymous No.5633248]

>>5618857
Because Ocarina is still called the best of all time.
64 is just called one of the best.

[Anonymous No.5633253]

>>5633150
I got bored of TP after the first dungeon and I don't see how it was better. At least for as handholdy as OoT was it didn't treat players like complete retards.

[Anonymous No.5633257]

>>5633253
Let go of your bias and try again.

[Anonymous No.5633267]

>>5618857
According to???
This is a shit thread dude. Both are perfect 10/10.

[Anonymous No.5633274]

>>5633257
But I hate 3D Zelda games.

[Anonymous No.5633295]

>>5633106
This. Ocarina is so fucking pure at heart.

[Anonymous No.5633357]

>>5633067
I have plenty of fun playing games, and even pointed out why I enjoyed SMB3 over Mario 64 and ALttP/LoZ both over OoT. The ability to sandbox doesn't compensate for the utter lack of challenge present in the game.

[Anonymous No.5633575]

>>5633295
It's just a tech demo with worse gameplay and less content than ALttP.

[Anonymous No.5633619]

>>5633067
I agree with the thrust of your post, but I will point out that there's a huge spectrum between SM64 and Kaizo hallways. Just look at Star Road and Lost Impact: Two great romhacks that take the difficulty up just a couple notches and force the player to at least understand all the normal movement options available to them.

>>5633357
I honestly think you're overstating how easy SM64 is, possibly because you've spent so long playing it or are just good at platformers. I had a PS1 as a kid, but when I bought an N64 in high school, I definitely didn't just plow through it like it was nothing. Similarly, I've seen other people struggle at certain parts, like Lethal Lava Land or any of the final batch of stages.

Obviously right now I can pretty reliably clear the game without seeing the game over screen, but I've played the shit out of it. Rainbow Ride and Tick Tock Clock absolutely present a threat to a player who doesn't know the movement super well, though, as do each of the Bowser stages. It's an easy game to be sure and could stand to be tougher, but I seriously think you're exaggerating here.

[Anonymous No.5636282]

>>5623478
Perfect post. Only reasonable anon in this thread.

[Anonymous No.5636284]

Retards in this thread really expect a video game to remain "perfect" after 20 year of progress in the industry? I really dont follow the point of this thread at all.

[Anonymous No.5636291]

>>5633248
>>5620009
>>5623129
>>5633150
do people really consider this crap one of the best games of all time? what the hell lol. ive beaten this and MM twice in my life; once as a kid and once as an adult each. I can safely say their nothing worth bragging about or in any other fashion pushed a ceiling even as far as: gameplay mechanics, controls, exploration, music, story, atmosphere/setting, and innovation. Their just in the pile of 64 games. I'll say this, their decent for 64 games since the 64 was kind of shit compared to the library of snes but what are you gonna do it was new technology back then. for fucks sake rare couldnt even make donkey kong run without that extra ram. the point is; games shouldn't be judged today by yesterdays standards. im surprised this game is still talked about today as much as it is. if anything i prefer zelda 1 on nes over the 64 games.

[Anonymous No.5636771]

>>5623669
>Yo! Noid 2
i had no idea this existed, thank you.

[Anonymous No.5636773]

>>5633106
except it was topped a year later when Majora's Mask came out

[Anonymous No.5636890]

>>5618857
SM64 suffers from the exact same shit OoT does. Everyone into older games talks about how good they (rightfully) are. Then all these faggots trying to be on the cool train play it and can't deal with the control schemes and start bashing it.
They're both awesome games but there's always "modern standard" faggots like>>5636284>>5636291

Also WW had a decent shot at taking the title from OoT but it was just far too short and easy.

[Anonymous No.5636901]

>>5636890
>They're both awesome games but there's always "modern standard" faggots
Whats your point? There are 100's of retro games that still live up to the hype, satisfaction, enjoyment, and quality that they were back in the day. To list a few: Final Fantasy 7, Star Ocean 2, Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Super Metroid, Marvel vs Capcom series up to 2, Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Doom 1 and 2, Zelda 1; and thats just a FEW. Zeldafags like you are insufferable because the moment someone says the 64 games aren't Einstein level genius works of pure entertainment and art you have a hilarious meltdown with no real arguement. The game aged like shit. Theres no shame in it. Its not like YOU made it. All you did was experience it and now you like many other weirdos identify with it as part of like, who you are. That shits cringey and you should rail yourself back to reality anon. Do me a favor and throw out that triforce belt buckle and triforce embedded wallet and your triforce-O's cereal into the trash plz.

[Anonymous No.5636915]

>>5636901
>Its not like YOU made it.

It’s is a contraction for it is or it has.
Its indicates possessive.

[Anonymous No.5636950]

>>5636890
>Also WW had a decent shot at taking the title from OoT but it was just far too short and easy.
Ocarina of Time is an insanely easy game anon, all of the 3D Zeldas are. Just because you played it as a kid doesn't make it retroactively harder than it actually is.

[Anonymous No.5636952]

>>5636915
Have sex.

[Anonymous No.5636971]

Ocarina of Time is still one of the best and most loved Zelda games.

[Anonymous No.5637031]

>>5636971
TP is better than OoT and MM in almost every way, how can you like those two games but think their logical successor is one of the worst entries in the series? Are you a mouth breather?

[Anonymous No.5637049]

>>5636890
I personally like Wind Waker’s shorter length and more engaging story. OoT feels too long and drawn out with only a very barebones story to keep you going.

[Anonymous No.5637087]

>>5636901
>>5636950
I didn't say OoT was hard at all you fucking autistic niggers, learn to read.

>>5637049
I get you, I just felt a bit burned because just as I was getting into it it was over. I didn't bother with any of the side shit either which in retrospect everyone praises. I plan on doing a bit more of a completionist playthrough at some point.

[Anonymous No.5637113]

>>5637087
neither of us mentioned anything about difficulty being a talking point. 0/10 try harder next time zoom zoom.

[Anonymous No.5637121]

>>5637087
>complain that wind waker is too easy when comparing it to a game that is as easy if not easier than wind waker
You didn't say it was hard but that logic makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.5637379]

>>5637031
TP does what they did but worse in every way except for a few dungeons.

[Anonymous No.5637394]

>>5637121
No game is easier than Wind Waker.

[Anonymous No.5637495]

>>5637031
TP is the blandest game in the entire series though. One good dungeon in the entire game, really annoying wolf collectathon sections, boring sidequests, "damn we just realized rupees are useless, let's make a broken unnecessary armor to fix that", it was really underwhelming.

[Anonymous No.5637941]

>>5625821
>accurate argument
"No"!

[Anonymous No.5637943]

>>5625826
a .45

[Anonymous No.5638818]

>>5633619
>I honestly think you're overstating how easy SM64 is, possibly because you've spent so long playing it or are just good at platformers. I had a PS1 as a kid, but when I bought an N64 in high school, I definitely didn't just plow through it like it was nothing. Similarly, I've seen other people struggle at certain parts, like Lethal Lava Land or any of the final batch of stages.

I'm not overstating anything. You need to go back and re-read my criticism. I did not say that there is no challenge from platforming, but that there is no challenge of dying from enemy contact. I even posted a screenshot of SMB3 to illustrate the point.

OoT has the same issue.

As a bonus, the difficult levels you mentioned in Mario 64 are completely optional (and not in the I-can-use-a-warp-whistle-as-a-work-around-for-no-battery-backup kind of way), so it's moot anyway.

The challenge of navigating/defeating hordes of enemies that can kill you in short order is missing from Mario 64/OoT. That is why I can't even call them the best games in their respective franchises.

[Anonymous No.5638823]

>>5618857
if you follow speedrunning at all ocarina is way more interesting

[Anonymous No.5638831]

>>5636901
>There are 100's of retro games that still live up to the hype, satisfaction, enjoyment, and quality that they were back in the day.
> Final Fantasy 7

Choose one.

[Anonymous No.5638883]

>>5638831
(You)