/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4921813]

Do you think there will ever be a decent way of upscaling 2D graphics, or will it always be stuck in lookinggood.png territory?

[Anonymous No.4921820]

>Can't deal with slightly bad image quality for a few hundred games.
What a faggot.

[Anonymous No.4921843]

>>4921813
>Do you think there will ever be a decent way of upscaling 2D graphics
Yes, it's called integer scaling,

[Anonymous No.4921850]

>>4921813
just wait until Squenix do a remake with the hi-res backgrounds bro (aka never)

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-lost-art-of-final-fantasy-ix-mama-robotnik-research-thread.551612/

[Anonymous No.4921851]

>>4921813
yes, it's known as playing on a crt.

[Anonymous No.4921867]

>>4921813
The information doesn't exist, so there's not much that can be done without asspulling it. For 240p consoles, composite video blur is the best you can do without making shit up.

[Anonymous No.4921883]

>>4921813
Pull a caper to swipe copies of the original artwork and 3D models

[Anonymous No.4921889]

>>4921851
this

[Anonymous No.4921892]

>>4921813
>>4921850
What I don't understand is why they don't just employ some community college students who will gladly remodel these scenes for mere pennies, to make a game that doesn't look like complete ass in HD. They could even sell it at full price.

[Anonymous No.4921894]

>>4921851

If every single image benefits from being displayed on a CRT, why get an LCD display at all?

[Anonymous No.4921901]

>>4921889
The indirect mapping of pixels to phosphors helps, but much of what's often attributed to CRTs has nothing to do with the tube and is a consequence of composite video. The dithered transparencies in Genesis games still work on LCDs with composite input.

[Anonymous No.4921994]

>>4921894
LCD takes less space.
That's the main reason why everyone got rid of CRTs.

[Anonymous No.4921998]

>>4921894
Because a 55 inch LCD is like 10 pounds while a 55 inch CRT is like 60 pounds.

[Anonymous No.4922010]

>>4921998
>>4921994

So hypothetically, if there was a CRT with the size and weight of an LCD, it would be the superior display?.

[Anonymous No.4922025]

>>4921813
No. It's impossible to add detail through algorithms without it looking random or awful. Just play as is and use your imagination.

[Anonymous No.4922029]

>>4921851
>blur is detail.

lol

[Anonymous No.4922030]

>>4921892
>mere pennies
You think they're willing to spend that kind of money?

[Anonymous No.4922035]

>>4921894
There is opinion involved as well. Some here like the picture quality of CRTs and see their games being displayed blury as a feature. Many, many don't feel that way. Even before I knew better screens would come along, I always hated the look of a CRT screen and how the games could never really look crisp.

[Anonymous No.4922038]

>>4922010
If that's how you like your games to look, sure... I think the left side looks vastly vastly better than the CRT one >>4921851

[Anonymous No.4922053]

>>4921998
>600 pounds
Fixed that for you

[Anonymous No.4922089]

>>4921892
>for mere pennies
Oh you're one of THOSE people who don't want to pay artists a fair wage.

[Anonymous No.4922097]

>>4921892
>What I don't understand is why
those fucking retards deleted/destroyed assets they considered artwork.

Square has always had a fucking retard to their madness. No, not a method, they have that too, but usually the retard is center stage.

[Anonymous No.4922169]

>>4922089

What part of "gladly" didn't you understand?

[Anonymous No.4922186]

>>4922097
>retard to their madness

Artful post, sincerely

[Anonymous No.4922196]

>>4922010
It would still have imperfect geometry and flicker. I always felt icky after spending time in front of a CRT.

[Anonymous No.4922202]

>>4922097
That retard has been working pretty well for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Enix#Business_model

[Anonymous No.4922229]

>>4922169
>gladly
there is no "gladly". That's what schoolkids think when all they have ever done is their boring homework. The second you make a piece of quality creative work, with the pride that derives from it, you won't take kindly to a billions-worth company making more billions off of it as they pay you pennies. That's just how human psyche works, and that's why there are no games made like that. Either NO ONE makes money off of it, everyone is paid a fair price for their labor and effort, or it doesn't get made. Frankly, it's hard enough to make a game where everyone is paid a fair due already that any other idea is retarded by default.

[Anonymous No.4922240]

>>4922169
No one with the skill necessary to not make it look like garbage would gladly waste their time like that. Only terrible artists who know they are terrible would work for pennies and then the results would be awful.

[Anonymous No.4924651]

>>4922222

[Anonymous No.4924662]

>>4924651
/vr/ skips those numbers.

[Anonymous No.4925630]

Just squint your eyes a little bit and it looks good.

[Anonymous No.4925653]

>>4921813
Yes. Neural networks are scary. Strictly amateur hours programmers on /e have made shocking progress on nudity filters to remove bras/panties.

You could grow an AI to even show you a dozen different styles for a couple different upscales and pick whichever style you like.

[Anonymous No.4925753]

>>4922029
The developers depended on that "blur" to make the colors work. That raw pixel look is horrid.

[Anonymous No.4925854]

>>4921867
technically you could apply prior information to obtain super-resolution. For instance, most natural scenes are smooth and blobby, and thus you could build adaptive filters around this observation to upscale images in a realistic manner. Case in point, this is how the Google Pixel's digital zoom works.

[Anonymous No.4925874]

>>4925753
The raw pixels aren't amazing, but they look way better than the shitty blury one.

[Anonymous No.4925878]

>>4921813
it depends on the game. hq2x usually looks fine on nes/gameboy games

[Anonymous No.4925920]

>>4921843
restricting your self to integer scaling is overly simplistic and unnecessary with signal processing.

[Anonymous No.4925937]

>>4921813
Yes there are CRT shaders. The methods in your pic are garbage.
>>4921994
Oh right so that's why people all have 70 inch screens now instead of 24 inch screens. You didn't really think that one through did you?
>>4921998
Do you idiots come home every day and lift your TV repeatedly above your head for fun or something? What the fuck does the weight of the display have to do with anything? You stick the fucking thing on a desk and leave it there until you move house.
We're talking picture quality here, not unrelated physical dimensions and specs.
>>4922196
>I always felt icky after spending time in front of a CRT.
It's time to man up, princess.

[Anonymous No.4926053]

now you clever boys and girls know the real answer is nearest neighbour

[Anonymous No.4926084]

>>4925874

Holy shit anon how could you get that image to flicker like that? Did you fucking dunk the tv in swamp water for 10 years or what?

I know it's bait, but that's not a fair comparison at all.

[Anonymous No.4926126]

>>4926084
>Holy shit anon how could you get that image to flicker like that

It's something the NES PPU itself does in order to make the image appear less dirty and artifacted than it actually is. SNES does a similar thing as well.

[Anonymous No.4926156]

>>4926126
>It's something the NES PPU itself does in order to make the image appear less dirty and artifacted than it actually is.

I don't belive it. I'm intimately familliar with NES and all sorts of video output for it and I've never seen or heard of this before. If it does do this, whatever this image is is severly exaggerated. I've played on consumer sets and even pvm/bvm from a foot away and this doesn't ever happen. If that's your image you might have a broken nes or tv.

[Anonymous No.4926201]

>>4926156
If you ever used the NTSC filter on Nestopia or similar emulators you would have noticed it.

http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/screenshots.html

I think this guy isn't 100% reliable for stuff regarding other systems, but for NES he gently provided a recording for that flickering effect seen in pic related.

[Anonymous No.4926207]

>>4926201
Forgot to say, the GIF speed isn't nearly comparable with the one on real hardware since GIFs can't display 60Hz animations properly.

[Anonymous No.4926303]

>>4926207

Again man, maybe it happens but that's fucking exaggerated like 50x or more from what you actually see. I just zoomed in like a m-fer with my phone and videod the thing so close you could see the individual colors in each pixel and you can't see this. That dude is either full of shit, used terrible equipment, faked/exaggerated to illustrate what he meant, or used some funky emulator that didn't look like what you see on real hardware. He even says on real hardware it happens faster than in the image, meaning, it probably happens faster than the eye can percieve. It's like if you watch a crt or flatpanel on that slowmo guy's youtube channel. You can see the beam going across the tube, human eyes cant see that, at least on a crt.

https://youtu.be/3BJU2drrtCM?t=3m7s

[Anonymous No.4926337]

>>4926303
You see, it prob...

>He even says on real hardware it happens faster than in the image, meaning, it probably happens faster than the eye can percieve.

Aw hell no.

[Anonymous No.4926365]

>>4926337

I'm a fucking idiot, this is composite.

That explains why I'm not seeing it. I'm setup for rgb on my systems and rgb to component converter on tvs that don't support it.

I thought this was supposed to be about crts in general.

Sorry for doubthing anon, I should read before posting I guess. For some reason the composite part went over my head.

[Anonymous No.4926427]

>>4921843
spbp

IMO the only reason to get a 4K display as a retro gamer. allows you to integer scale just about any weird resolution with minimum to no black bars

[Anonymous No.4926439]

>>4926427
Bullshit. You can also render vector graphics on a very fine raster, have high resolution 3D graphics and enjoy large fields of view in 2D games. Integer scaling becomes less important because you're not going to tell if something is a 9x9 or 10x9 pixel block.
Not to mention the usual benefits of 4k.

[Anonymous No.4926456]

>>4926427
>144+ hz 4k never ever.

[Anonymous No.4926782]

>>4926365
Did you not have these consoles as a kid and only got memed into playing them later?

Some of us who did play them as kids go out of our way to make emulators have composite video's horizontal blur and dot crawl.

Here's some footage of an unmodified NES on a consumer CRT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiEFKXM7uKg

[Anonymous No.4926784]

>>4926427
Te extra pixels are very useful for phosphor shaders. Or just enjoying smoother text.

[Anonymous No.4927142]

>>4926782
Dude, I'm 37 and have been playing different "retro" consoles since the Atari 2600 at 6 years old.

I honestly feel like a retard after realizing it's composite. I played Genesis a bit about 10 years ago, then didn't really play retro (except on emulators on XBOX, PC and PSP) til about 3 years ago. At that point I pretty much switched all consoles to s-video and upgraded to rgb at that point. It's been a while since I've played anything on composite, but now I'm gonna have to so I can see this dot crawl I've forgot all about.

I get what you mean on wanting to play them as they were back then. About 3 months ago I got an early 90s wood grained sanyo with rf only. I honestly like the way my NES looks on it, but it's not as convenient as my setup in my front room.