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/vr/ - Retro Games

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3617249 No.3617249 [Reply] [Original]

How did this manage to kick off an entire franchise? Its hard as shit and the amount of grinding required to get anything done is mindnumbing.

>> No.3617253

>>3617249
It's easy as hell, what are you talking about?

>> No.3617258

>>3617249
It's not hard at all, however it *is* just objectively broken. It's an all you can eat buffet of usually harmful glitches. I swear they programmed it overnight and just shipped it out.

>> No.3617272

>>3617253
Fuck outta here with that bullshit. Comparatively speaking, its one of, if not the most difficult Final Fantasy.

>> No.3617282

>>3617272
Bullshit, FF1 is easy once you know what spells are literally useless

>> No.3617290

>>3617249
Interesting is, that FF was never and still is not really that famous in Japan. Completely different for Dragon Quest though..

>> No.3617294
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3617294

>>3617272
Not him, but it's really not. You're mistaking grinding with difficulty. There are a few choke points like Elfland where you usually have to stop and grind for XP or money to buy equipment, but that doesn't really add to the difficulty just the amount of time you need to sink into it.

Functionally the vast bulk of the game is just hitting attack over and over. You can make it "harder" or "easier" by the party you pick, but all it really affects is grinding time. There's very little room for actual strategy which is where RPG difficulty is.

>> No.3617314

Have you compared to other games available on the Famicom when it came out such as DQ1/2, MT1, Glory of Heracles, Ultima 3 or Wizardry 1?

>> No.3617316

>>3617290
First Dragon Warrior is also pretty brutal.

>> No.3617343

Final Fantasy has always been half assed in a technical sense and just pretty in an aesthetic sense. Dragon Quest has better balance in the mechanics.

>> No.3617345

>>3617314
>Wizardry 1
That game was the opposite when it comes to encounter rate, and besides that it's all trial and error. FF is all fight fight fight til your mind goes numb.

>> No.3617349

>>3617345
What part of Wizardry (aside from 4) is trial and error?

>> No.3617350

>>3617314
People forget about that. At the time it was nothing compared to early Ultima or Wizardry titles. FFI can be done in 20 hours pretty easily. It isn't like modern RPGs designed to carry you from area to area, but bitching about that is just saying you don't like something old because it's not something new.

As for how it launched the series, it came out right after DQ2 and stand up significantly better than it desu. Good design, great music and a massive experience compared to other contemporary games.

>> No.3617359

>>3617349
There's no way to understand the layout and mechanics without either a guide or experimentation. Even the magic system is obscure. In FF and DQ everything is streamlined.

>> No.3617362

>>3617359
You're supposed to read the manual.

>> No.3617368

>>3617249
>How did this manage to kick off an entire franchise?

by being better than any rpg released at the time

>> No.3617374

>>3617249
>Its hard as shit
It's really not, if you think that game is hard you'd better stop playing RPGs here and now.
>and the amount of grinding required to get anything done is mindnumbing.
Git gud, you can beat the game more than comfortably at level 25 if not lower.

>> No.3617385

If you're having trouble with it, consult the manual. It covers the first half of the game and most of the spells and mechanics, and has a neat tutorial and some really useful tips in there. It makes the entire game accessible to the point I can't imagine someone not heavily into RPGs playing without it.

As regards to the grinding, the only real point you have to do that is gold farming for the swords in Elfland and to get the Prorings in Gaia. Otherwise a good tactic is to stock up on supplies, go to wherever the game wants you to go, and if you notice your supplies running to about half, backtrack and return to town. This way you're searching new areas while you gain gold and exp and the tougher monsters give way more of them than whatever puny monsters next to town you'd otherwise be stuck to.

>> No.3617472

>>3617249
>Its hard as shit and the amount of grinding required to get anything done is mindnumbing.

Square were about to go bankrupt anyway, they had nothing to lose and neither did they give a fuck. Hence the game's title. Also, do account for the fact that it was released in the Japanese market which tolerated hard as fuck games way better (they had not much of an issue with the actual SMB2 for example).

>> No.3617676

>>3617249
Yeah, what the fuck, right!?

It's not like there's been 30 years of progress to influence your judgement or anything!
So why is this game so bullshit!?
Compared to today's games, this is unplayable!
But I'll be fucked if I compare it to other things of it's time!
Because for me to do that, I'd have to stop being a faggot! And I can't do that, I'm OP!

Faggot.

>> No.3617680

>grinding

I wish RPGS didn't have character levels at all so people would just come to terms with sucking at video games.

>> No.3617685 [DELETED] 

>>3617680
But stats are what define an RPG. If you do away with stats just to get away with grinding, then you now have a completely different genre of game altogether.

>> No.3617697

>>3617685
JRPG's are their own genre separate from RPGs anyhow and I think it'd be worth it so that these kinds of games could actually have a defined difficulty curve and challenge rather than having some people feel encouraged to grind for a half hour whenever they lose.

>> No.3617713

>>3617680
>I wish RPGS didn't have character levels at all
SaGa's like that.
>so people would just come to terms with sucking at video games.
They do, in fact SaGa doesn't sell in the west.

>> No.3617728

What are time standards?

>> No.3617843

>>3617249
Did you make a party of four thieves or something? It's not a particularly difficult game, and it doesn't require any grinding if you have a decent party composition.

Even if it was difficult, high difficulty didn't impact sales at the time the way it does today. Games like Ghosts n' Goblins were popular and successful.

>>3617680
At the very least, I do wish stat growth wasn't so ubiquitous in the genre, or that more games disincentivized or disallowed grinding. I have nothing against character progression, I just wish it was focused more on gaining new abilities rather than on getting bigger numbers.

>>3617713
I'm pretty fond of the SaGa games, and some of them provide good examples of how to disincentivize grinding.

>> No.3617869

>>3617290
Idiot. FF7 and 10 are in the top 10 of most popular games in Japan of all time.

Idiot.

>> No.3617884

>>3617249
Is this your first post-Pokemon RPG?

>> No.3617894

>>3617249
You need to bear in mind what kinds of games were available back then.

Usually, interactive entertainment involved the player moving their onscreen character from left to right in a predetermined path using hand-to-eye coordination to reach a goal or some shit.

RPGs offered something a little more cerebral; the illusion of freedom, being able to go where you want and dictate how the game unfolds. Your onscreen character would grow stronger and stronger depending on how YOU saw fit.

These kind of gameplay mechanics - however simplistically implemented they may have been - were very appealing.

>> No.3618463

>>3617272
>Comparatively speaking, its one of, if not the most difficult Final Fantasy.
That says nothing in the grand scheme of things. FF is a super easymode franchise. Ignoring the comparison to games made to be beatable by babies, FF1 is just not that difficult a game.

>> No.3618501

>>3617294
Yeah you basically need to stop and grind at a few key points.

If you just go to the Power Pinnacle with your party until like level 16 or 20 you're basically ready for the rest of the game.

Going into the Marsh Cave without grinding is asking for deaths.

>> No.3618503

>>3617869
wow 2 games out of 15+, you make a good point

>> No.3618903

>>3617676
Not him but I had FF when it was new and I was honestly not hugely impressed. I was a big D&D nerd though.

Also twice the Nintendo deleted my game, once before the fire cave and again right after going to the final tower for the first time. So my initial middling feelings weren't helped by that.

>> No.3619258

>>3617258
Does the Famicom version have the same glitches or does it work as it should?

>> No.3619269

>>3618903
You're supposed to hold reset before you turn the console off.

>> No.3619309

>>3617249
You only need to grind at very specific points, the RUN command is broken so you will be easily be able to run from a battle you don't feel ready for, then use some of your 99 potions to heal yourself if the fight was obligatory (i swear in the final dungeon you can't run away from some normal fights), also download an offcial manual, it actually helps you through the entire game on where to go next.

The game trows A LOT of money to you so the only real problem is having the patience to buy 99 potions in a row.

It's not an amazing jrpg but it's pretty good, better than the first 2 dragon warrior games in my opinion once you ignore the glitches and slower combat.

>> No.3619345

>>3619269
Yeah I realize that now, back then I was just pissed at so much wasted time. The second time it happened I vowed to never touch the game again, but I did eventually play the mega easy GBA port.

>> No.3619373

>>3617368
>What is Phantasy Star?

>> No.3619376

>>3619345
>Yeah I realize that now
Did you not understand English or not understand the game outright telling you to do that?

>> No.3619381

>>3619376
I don't remember, it was a long time ago. Probably I ignored or skipped over that. To be honest I never really liked it in the first place. I played it because it was a gift and something else to play.

>> No.3619497

>>3619373
Irrelevant since nobody had a Sega. Even in North America were RPGs for the NES didn't come out years later or Europe where the SMS was strong it didn't matter.

>> No.3619498

>>3619497
Ohh boy it's the "I didn't have one so no one did" crew. Next you're going to say how everyone everywhere said SNES, right?

>> No.3619504

>>3619498
In that case you'll find better RPGs on home computers.

>> No.3619512

>>3619504
Okay so now we agree.

>> No.3619635

I played this as a kid, and I had a hard time because I didn't speak English at the time. I remember the first time I made some real progress in the game was when I picked 4 fighters like >>3617294 but then I was stuck and I felt like not having a mage was slowing me down. Was that actually true, though? It's been a while so I don't know the specifics. Is there a point in the game where having only physical damage slows you down? I think it was in the Marsh Cave where I decided to restart the game with a more "balanced" party, I believe 2 fighters, 1 black and 1 white mage.

> tl;dr: if a kid who couldn't speak english beat this game and you find it hard, you need to git gud

>> No.3619805

>>3619635
Having 4 fighters slowed you down because they were one of the most gear dependant classes and required lots of gold upfront to survive, so your grind would take awhile when getting your team geared out

Sure the mages required lots of gold as well but to be honest their spells weren't too bad early on and buying spells wasn't first priority like getting armor so your fighter could survive

>> No.3619841

>>3619805
Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter or Figher Fighter Redmage Redmage is the best party

Outfitting 4 fighters with Silver Swords is slow, but they become beasts later on.

White Mages are decent, but Red Mages can handle the healing and provide more utility through better physicals and some cast all spells. Black mages magic isn't better by enough of a margin to justify it over a red mage.

Thief is a shit class period. Ninja doesn't even compare. Ninja's are still worse than the fighter or blackbelt combat wise, and Red Mages get fast.

thief is the shit class.

>> No.3619914

how is this game compared to Phantasy Star II?
Wanted to play that saga so bad until I saw the dungeons being a clusterfuck of the same walls all over again, and all other dungeons being exactly the same. Is FF better?

>> No.3619972

>>3619914
I think FFI I'd easier and far friendlier.

>> No.3619976

>>3619914
I think the dungeon design is one of Phantasy Star 2's strong points. It sounds like you might appreciate the much simpler and shorter dungeons in FF1, though.

Outside of that, I think FF1 is largely superior. It has more party customization, more interesting enemy encounters, more bosses, and a bit lower random encounter rate. Phantasy Star 2 has a better plot, cast of characters, and a more interesting setting.

>> No.3619984

>>3619841
Redmages can only handle the healing if there are two of them or if you're overleveled for late game.
Quite a few bosses spam whole-party damage attacks, on one of my first playthroughs I thought red mage would be enough but one redmage has a VERY hard time dealing with that shit.

>> No.3620571

>>3619805
You don't have to outfit all 4 fighters with the best equipment until end game. Get the best weapons and armor for slot 1 fighter and maybe slot 2 fighter depending on money at the time, give the others the hand me downs.

>> No.3620586

>>3618503
Not like it's much different in the West. Hardcore fans love FFIV, VI, IX, X-2, And XII but the only ones that you could even think to put in the most popular games of all time are FFVII and FFX, even in the USA.

>> No.3621430

>>3617249
Boring bait thread.

If you don't like it, don't play it.

>> No.3621438

>>3619984
Except for a "standard" playthrough, you'll pretty much DPS race bosses.

2 Knights will be able to kill a boss in a few turns obviously assuming you're not underleveled.

It's also why the 4 Knight Party is so good. Sure, 2 are going to be less geared (since theres 1 excalibur, and 1 masamune) but they're still more powerful than equally geared Ninjas, or even Black Mages.

>> No.3621604

>>3617249
Nintendo Power

>> No.3621809
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3621809

You only need to grind once in my experience. Right after you get your ship if you want to buy some good stuff for the Marsh Cave. It's really not that hard.

Save these fuckers. I hate them.

>> No.3621816

It is impressive as is Final Fantasy 1 made it to the states without Square being sued. Most of the enemies are taken wholesale from the first edition of Dungeons and Dragons.

http://finalfantasy.istad.org/2013/01/final-fantasy-vs-dnd/

>> No.3622835

>>3621809
Oh fuck I am working my way through this game on the nes classic right now, and I faced that bullshit. What's worse is when you save your state, and restore it, you always get that exact same combat, which doesnt help that i saved in the middle of a dungeon. Its like it decides what your next conflict will be before you get into it.

I was too far in to start a new game, so i kept reloading and replaying the fight until i was lucky enough to get a round of combat with the black mage surviving to drop his big spell and kill most of them.

I play with a fighter, black belt, white mage, and black mage. What do y'all play with?

>> No.3623028

>>3621816
that's the reason most of the names got changed for the US localization

i think they remained changed in the japanese versions of the re-releases too

>> No.3623101

>>3622835
4 black belts.

>> No.3623134

>>3617249
>hard as shit
>easily obtainable items you can use to cast an endless amount of heals and damage spells every battle

>> No.3623187

its fun because you can make your own party and the story is simple enough to just wander through.

they openly admit they were inspired by dnd and tolkien, that said you can't rip off mythilogical creatures, only dnd specific stuff (8bit theater had a joke about this, and order of the stick had to retcon their use of a beholder to keep wizards^tm happy.)

>grind
yeah now play 2. 1 isn't grindy.

>> No.3625252

Hey guys, just got done beating this game. The story in it, does any of the other FF games link to this story at all or in the same world? I know most of the stories are on their own, but I was wondering if the FF games were part of the same timeline?

>> No.3625265

>>3623028
I played the PS1 version in Japanese and they definitely still had D&D names.

>> No.3625268

>>3625252
>any of the other FF games link to this story at all or in the same world?

no

>> No.3625269

>>3621438
>>3620571
>>3619841
Why not add a monk or two? They pack a punch without equipment.

>> No.3625507

>>3617249
Longevity of gameplay and not being as obtuse as Dragon Warrior.

>> No.3625521

>>3625268
Actually, doesn't FFIX suggests to be a sequel to FF1? Garland at the end says he tried to conquer the world or something in the past and failed.

>> No.3625530

>>3625269
It's still not as efficient as another fighter in the end.

>> No.3625536

>>3621438
It's not like having 4 fighters even limits your use of magic since there are items you can use like cure staves and helms once you find them.

>> No.3625553

>>3625530
Is the end important or the route it takes to get there?

>> No.3625578

>>3625553
Depends, talking about beating it fastest then yes. Otherwise no.

>> No.3625646

>>3625521
>Actually, doesn't FFIX suggests to be a sequel to FF1?
No.
FFIX also talks about other FF, like FFII. It's just cameos and references.

By that logic FFT implies that all FF are the same world if you look at quest items' descriptions, it's just references.