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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 1.04 MB, 1041x767, super metroid.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2225031 No.2225031[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Was it bad design?

>> No.2225037

no

>> No.2225051

>>2225031
Do tell what was so "bad" about it and don't tell me any bullshit about it being impossible to figure out, blowing the tube was shown during the intro demonstration that you get if wait a while in the title screen making whining about that a moot point.

>> No.2225053

>>2225051
It only shows that if you beat the game.

>> No.2225060

>>2225053
don't bother, i tell the /v/ faggots that post this on our glorious /vr/ that tidbit of information and no one cares.

>inb4 sonic barrel
>inb404

>> No.2225072
File: 168 KB, 576x636, 1407686864303.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2225072

>>2225053
>making up bullshit in an pathetic attempt to cover your ass
I seriously hope you guys don't do this. Go and fire up Super Metroid in an emulator or actual SNES and tell me what you see if you simply let it sit there for a while. Beating the game makes NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE because you can't save your game after beating it.

>> No.2225082

It's arguable either way

You could say it's bad design because there's no indication that it can be broken (like cracks in the glass maybe) and it looks like a background or scenery thing. I feel like it didn't go through my head to power bomb it because it didn't seem like a snes era game would have a cool thing like that in it.

Arguments for it being good design are that it's a cool idea, there are standard looking platforms above and below which would suggest that you can get to them somehow and (power) bombing everything is standard operating procedure

>> No.2225108

Was it required to beat the game?

if it was optional power ups, then fine. its a reward for trying random stuff, or realizigng the map extends upward, and that theres handy looking platforms, or just that its an odd, unique room in the first place.

>> No.2225112

>>2225072
I'm 90% sure this is bait but why don't you boot it up and find out. I thought the same way you did until I saw for myself.

>>2225082
To add on to this, assuming the player is playing casually (AKA, entering Maridia from the east entrance) the player will see a familiar looking structure where the pipe IS broken. The door after that is blocked off, making the player's desire to go into that area increase.

At this point, the player will most likely look at their map for any way to get around the door. The only area that shows that it may lead their is the room with the intact glass pipe, which is cleverly placed only two doors away from the broken one. The player enters the room and sees that the room has a upper and lower third.

At this point the player will try everything to unlock the way, and will eventually use a powerbomb. Not knowing specifically that a powerbomb is needed is a legitimate critique but experimentation doesn't take too long in this game.

>> No.2225113

No

-shown in intro sequence
-another tube broken somewhere in map
-unique screen (you don't really get the hallway in water setting anywhere else up to that point)
-the fucking map has blank squares above and below it

>> No.2225119

>>2225113
>shown in intro sequence
read >>2225053

Rest are legit.

>> No.2225125

>>2225113
There are three opening demos for Super Metroid, and none of the three show that tube being broken.

>> No.2225126
File: 57 KB, 633x532, Crabs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2225126

It's been mentioned, but this was in the game. Super Metroid is full of subtlety. Most players are probably power bombing literally everything by this point anyway

>> No.2225132

>>2225125
Like some of the others said, there really is a fourth opening demo after you've beaten the game. It starts off by showing Samus using Shinespark to break through a wall, shows her doing a circular grapple swing underwater, bomb jumping, using a super bomb + beam combo, then it ends by showing that secret technique you can do that refills your energy.

>> No.2225135

>>2225031
Take your shitty bait threads back to your shitty board >>>/v/

>> No.2225138

>>2225135
>mostly intelligent and civil discussion
>bait thread

>> No.2225142

Let's pretend that >>2225126 and the intro sequence didn't exist and that blowing the tube actually was impossible to figure out. This still wouldn't be a problem because as we all know there is another entrance to Maridia and blowing the tube IS NOT MANDATORY to begin with.

So once again I'm asking OP to explain why >>2225031 is bad design?

>> No.2225143

>>2225138
>four word question about an inflammatory topic which has been discussed to hell and back
That's on the merit of /vr/ not being a shitty board

>> No.2225146

>show tube being blown open when the game is in "demo mode"
>show tube being blown open in the commercials for the game which ran constantly when it was released

Even without that, just use some critical thinking, anons.

>> No.2225148

>>2225132
It still doesn't show that tube, though. I'm not saying it was hard to figure out, but it's true that NONE of the four opening demos show that tube.

>> No.2225151

>>2225142
I'm pretty sure it is mandatory - and when did OP say it was bad design?

>> No.2225161

>there really is a fourth opening demo after you've beaten the game.
IF this is true this is somewhat interesting. How does the game know it has been beaten and how does it save that information? I'm pretty sure there isn't any kind of New Game + in Super Metroid or a way to save your game after beating it?

>> No.2225162

>>2225161
It probably flags that particular save file as a "clear" file without any notification. A lot of games do that.

>> No.2225175

>>2225031
I always through that blowing the tube seemed obvious and figured it out myself with the simple logic of the room it is in continuing on both upwards and downwards. Don't tell me I was the only one as I have seen lots of people (or a very persistent samefag posting about this on both /v/ and /vr/) complaining about this constantly lately?

>> No.2225185

>>2225031
I never had any trouble with this, but finding the entrance to Kraid's lair from the elevator room that takes you to Norfair had me stuck for a long ass time.

>> No.2225187
File: 2.87 MB, 204x154, 1361297058595.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2225187

>blowing up the tube is now considered something that was impossible to figure out on your own

Sigh... how long until "Y can't Metroid crawl" becomes a valid complaint and something that was impossible to figure out because the game doesn't have a hour long tutorial about that?

>> No.2225193

>>2225187
Another decade or so, by then all games will be movies with an occasional QTE every other minute

>> No.2225195

>>2225031
You posted this on /v/ too. But to reiterate
>It doesn't respond to regular bombs, missiles, etc.
>The xray visor shows nothing
>It's built into the foreground and can be mistaken as a set piece
Newbies get stuck here often, but from what I understand there is an alternate route somewhere.

>> No.2225212

>>2225161
>>2225162
>>2225132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsIBLOx12KU

Jump to 4:24 for the 4th opening demo. I never knew about the super bomb + beam combo or the regen technique before watching this

>> No.2225239

I dunno, I beat the game last year. I just bombed everything habitually since I didn't have the visor and bombs show destructibles.

>> No.2225286

>>2225031

yes.

also action-adventure genre a shit

>> No.2225315

>>2225126
It's a unique glass tube, and the room doesn't appear to have any other way around it, so of course my first instinct was to see if it would blow up.

>> No.2225320

>>2225212
What the fuck man. How. When I first got into this game, why didn't anyone tell me of the regen technique?

>> No.2225324

I figured it out at 11 with no help

>> No.2225365

One of the core tenets of Metroid is LET'S SEE IF I CAN BLOW SHIT UP TO FIND SECRETS. I don't know how you could pass through that section without just knowing there was some way to crack it open.

>> No.2225390

I'll remember your post OP next time I need people to reply to my thread. It seems to get replies every time.

>> No.2225693

>>2225112
>I'm 90% sure this is bait but why don't you boot it up and find out. I thought the same way you did until I saw for myself.

There are several attract mode sequences for Super Metroid.

See the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7-Z4swEgKE

>> No.2225720

>>2225031
What a fucking shitty bait thread.
I agree the game does have design flaws, though.

>> No.2225843

As a kid, the only way I found out about this was purely by accident when I randomly powerbombed in that room one time. I really liked how that spot looked and I was completely stuck in the game at that point anyway but I still loved running around the world doing random shit (this was 1995 and I was 10).

Also the only thing I remember the opening demos teaching me was that there was a super cool way to refill your health with powerbombs. I actually called the Nintendo Hotline (UK) asking them what the hell was going on there.

>> No.2225862

>>2225108
Yes, it is required to do this to get to Lower Maridia unless you know specific sequence skips that exploit bugs.

I may be wrong about this, but I'm almost positive that I'm correct.

>> No.2225868

>>2225365
another tenet of metroid games is that using regular bombs on something destroys it if it can OR reveals what type of block it is. So if there's something that can be destroyed by a missile and you use a bomb next to it, it gets revealed as a missile block.

Not so with the glass tube.

>> No.2225879

>>2225187
I had trouble figuring out where to go when I was a kid, back around when it came out. I eventually figured out you blow it up with a power bomb, but it did take me a little bit. I didn't get upset about it, because it forced me to find a lot of secret missile packs and energy tanks that I probably wouldn't have found if I was able to play straight through. Plus, I was around 6 or 7 when I got the game in 96/97. I got Super Metroid the same Christmas I got my PS1.
The other thing that I got stuck on in Super Metroid, and I'm ashamed of is what I think is called the noob hallway. I didn't realize that I had to run across the blocks that crumbled. I was still used to the original Metroid that didn't have a run button. I figured it out after a day of raging before I read the manual, but kid me was seriously stumped for a few hours. Back then (I still do this now), I preferred to play games blind for as long as I could without reading manuals.

>> No.2225886

>>2225143
Agreed, but as long as the thread isn't shitty let's stay and have intelligent discussion.

>>2225720
Let's be honest here, what game doesn't have a flaw here and there? There's no such thing as a perfect thing.

>> No.2225920

>>2225720
I played Super Metroid twice, once when I was 9 and again when I was 24. Both times I got stuck at the tube.

Years of modern vidya had taught me that most games blatantly tell the player when something is destructible. I kept thinking there was something I was missing around the area instead of testing the tube, going around in circles until I finally had to use a guide. I was surprised because nothing about the tube itself told me anything. I had assumed it was just a part of the indestructible scenery.

>> No.2225938

>The default control configuration is retarded
>You can't skip the intro which really gets annoying when replaying the game for the umpteenth time
>You can't skip the item acquire fanfare
>The game is way too easy if you collect more than fifth of the power-ups, hell you can't even take damage after getting the screwattack/space jump combo
>Point of no return in Tourian
>Final boss fight is scripted, boring and easy
>Some might argue that the fact you can sequence break it in so many ways shows it's poorly planned or broken piece of shit but personally I like it and the possibilities it offers
These are questionable design choices but I literally can't see the problem with the tube. I mean it's not that hard to figure out, I figured out it on my own and so did ALL my friends in mid- to late 90s.

>> No.2225974

>>2225938
I think everyone eventually figured it out, but it's still somewhat poorly designed. There's no indication that power bombs would work, and since it doesn't follow the typical rule of "roll around and lay bombs everywhere to uncover any special block types" because it's a glass tube, it's pretty easy to stump people with it. And in most other situations, the game makes it obvious where there's a "secret" passageway by differentiating the blocks (ex: in kraid's lair there's a line of blocks that look damaged and you bomb them).

Maybe they could've designed the tube to start cracking slightly if you use regular bombs, but never break fully with them. That way you'd know the tube is breakable and you'd know to come back and try other weapons on it.

Personally when I first played SM I thought it was some sort of background-vs-foreground thing going on, where you can see the outside area but would need to take an alternate path to access.

>> No.2226028

>>2225072
Get the bananas out of your ears

>> No.2226043

This thread lends credence to the idea that that you're born gamer. It isn't simply a lifestyle choice.

>> No.2226061

>>2225151
You can get through the entirety of maridia using the entrance in the crashed ship.

>> No.2226198

>>2225051
>blowing the tube was shown during the intro demonstration that you get if wait a while in the title screen
Those demos took forever to show up and most everyone just saw the title screen and jumped into the game
I will admit those titles showd a lot of the more obscure thinngs like the wall jumping and the morph heal thing

>> No.2226414

>>2225974
>because it's a glass tube, it's pretty easy to stump people with it

That's actually why it's pretty easy to figure out or at least make people try and use both bombs.

Even if normal bombs don't reveal the block. It's a giant tube of glass. Might as well try the super bombs.

Because it's a giant tube of glass.