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/vr/ - Retro Games

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10576929 No.10576929 [Reply] [Original]

Why is there such a stigma against "using guides" to make progress in games that are memed to require them? All of your "beloved" shitty Zelda games required guides, so that alone proves "good games" can require guides. Every new game literally has a guide built into it in the form of tutorials and minimaps.
>if you read/hear the dialogue and use the minimaps you didn't beat the game

>> No.10576931

>>10576929
>Why is there such a stigma against "using guides" to make progress in games that are memed to require them?

This all started with an E-celeb saying some stupid shit that got parroted to the point where it's now a meme here.

>> No.10576936

>>10576931
Well, one point I'm trying to make is: so what if Castlevania II requires a guide? You can erase that part of the argument about why people don't like the game. Smellda games you faggots jerk off to needed guides too, but no one mentions they learned everything about these games from those (guides) back in the days when they review those games in modern times. Imagine making any progress in Majora's Mask, or LoZ, nevermind 100%ing them. Guides and sharing secrets were part of the culture, zoomers are clueless.

>> No.10576940

>>10576929
This post is incoherent. You're confusing using guides with the games.
>Zelda games required guides
In the first place, they don't. This is a lie. They DON'T require guides. You CAN use a guide if you get stumped and can't solve the puzzle.
If you can solve the puzzles you don't need the guide.
god, if you don't know this what are you even doing in this board? this whole thread screams like you never played a retro game before lol

>> No.10576946

>>10576929
heard there was a new stigma where people were shunning people who use their hands to play video games. Not sure what that's about but it's probably a stupid as who ever sold you that bs.

>> No.10576949

>>10576929
>All of your "beloved" shitty Zelda games required guides,

?????

Simon's Quest yeah, for all but the most determined or lucky players, but Zelda?? You are a bad poster. Stop being such a jerk when you somehow manage to suck so much at Zelda games of all things to make this bizarre claim.

>> No.10576953

>>10576940
Given he brought up Zelda twice to shit on it, I think he's more interested in starting some bullshit.
Though thinking about it, does anything in game hint about burning trees to find shit in Zelda 1? Or blowing holes in walls with bombs?

>> No.10576995

>>10576953
OP's being disingenuous because it's really one game in the series and it's more that it has more cryptic puzzles than most. In that case the puzzle is using fire on that tree and the hint might be that the tree is "sus" so you burn it (apologies for the zoomer slang).

>> No.10577002

>>10576940
>solve the puzzles
You never played the game. It is so evident in your writing that I won't waste any words in saying you could never ever 100% even the Legend of Zelda for NES without a guide or a magazine or a video or someone to show you how to play it. It's not puzzles - it's locations of dungeons and key items. Nevermind Majora's Mask. You might finish these games but you won't get everything. Also the only way you could know you got everything? By looking at a guide.
>>10576949
>but Zelda?
Fucking absolutely. Another person who has never found everything in these games. I know I personally consumed every word of Nintendo Power or Guide to Nintendo Games or whatever books floated around the schoolyard. I watched the ad-infested TV shows in the 80s/90s. No way would I have been able to beat Simon's Masterpiece Quest when I was a kid if I didn't have Johnny Arcade school me on how to use the holy water on TV at like 6:30 am on a school day. I didn't own the game but I made sure I got my hands on it and beat the fuck out of it. Come out of the closet anons, knowledge is power.

>> No.10577025

>>10576995
I mentioned 2 in my posts (LoZ, MM). But there's more! You've clearly not played Zelda 2 which I LOVE, but also had foreknowledge of, like Simon's Quest, because video game mags/guidebooks were like crack to me and the next best thing to actually playing them. A man is only as good as his tools.

>> No.10577030

>>10576953
Maybe he wants another argument against CV2 besides that it "requires" a guide?

>> No.10577036

>>10577030
Well, some of the jumps you have to do in the mansions suck ass.

>> No.10577043

>>10576929
> #2 issue of Nintendo Power
Chances were anyone that didn't grow up in the middle of nowhere that could read would have seen this magazine BEFORE they played the game, unless for some reason you had an older brother or father that was a fan of the series (I don't think they really existed yet), or rented it, or had some other reason to be a day one CV2-copper. And I'm pretty sure anyone that hardcore would have had a sub to NP.

>> No.10577058

>>10577002
>How would you know you got everything?
Ironically, the Legend of Zelda is like, the one game in existence that shows you all the items in the game in the intro. I am replying to my own comment, so I didn't use ironically wrong :)

>> No.10577059

100%'d Link to the Past at age 7 without a guide. Bruteforced my way through Zelda 1 next and never replayed it. Zelda 2 isn't a real Zelda game get mad OP.

>> No.10577068
File: 114 KB, 720x596, ddgpot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10577068

>>10577059
If you say so. It's the best Mario game, I guess? Captcha: DDGP0T

>> No.10577071

>>10577059
And I beat CV3 without a guide. What's your point? Did you get all the pieces of heart? All of the items? Probably not.

>> No.10577468

there was no such stigma when these games were contemporary. that didnt start til people began using the internet to argue.

>> No.10577475

>>10577468
I always looked down on people who would buy printed guides and then just follow them without ever thinking for themselves.

>> No.10577494

>>10576929
>Zelda games required guides

No, they didn't. NO ONE used guides back then. Most people figured the games out on their own.

>> No.10577509

>>10577494
everyone used guides for games like zelda. that, or they heard things through the grape vine, etc. the notion that most people who beat obtuse nes games did so on their own is preposterous. sounds like it was so long ago, and since you dont specifically remember anymore, you decide that you must not have used guides (or anything similar) when in reality you did just like the rest of us

>> No.10577772

>>10576929
No one actually cares how you play games.

>> No.10577903

>>10576929
When we say guide we do not neet in game tutorials or mini map. We mean when a game has something that you dont do like a puzzle, a navigation, or finding the right tactic and you just consult an outside source. How is this hard to understand. If you dont want a game to throw puzzles, navigation, or tactical challenges at you than dont play those games. And of course your opinion of the content is degraded because you cant comment on what you didnt experience.

People might have used guides for this or that but the point is to use them as little as possible. To use your zelda example if you play with a guide open at all times you didnt experience the adventure. You didnt solve the ancient mystery, find the lost relic, etc. The guy that played until he got stuck on one part used a guide and than didnt use it again obviously had a bigger adventure but not as big as the guy who never used one.

I'd really like op or those like him to reply to this and tell me if they got it. I dont see the point in responding to these posts if nobody will learn anything. Like I could have just posted a meme image if you were not gonna bother learning anything. It would take less time and have the same result.

>> No.10577913

>>10577071
Why does getting all the items or hearts matter? This sounds like you have some compulsion about 100ing and assume the rest of us do also.

In these old games you could not even know when you did 100 the game. You would have to look at a guide to know what things you did and did not miss. Is that what you do? Spoil all the secrets and than whine about it?

This is your weird compulsion making you suffer. We are not like you.

>> No.10577917

>>10577913
A fair number of older games have percentage trackers.

>> No.10577946

>>10577917
We didnt have mental issues because of that number. Again. This obsession with completion to the point where you need to whine online wasnt part of our culture. This is you and whatever weird culture you inherited it from. We will not bad mouth our games because you saw a tracker at less than 100 and couldn't do whatever task was needed to fill it. We dont respect you for bringing your disorder into thus conversation and acting like it makes you better. We find your behavior disguesting and will revoke your gamer creed and make fun of you until you get the fucking memo.

This isnt an arguement you can win. If every game ever made had a completion tracker you would still lose the argument because the arguement isnt about games it's about you and your mental issues. We will not respect you as a person so long as you do this. Your opinion doesnt matter to us because you are not part if the community so long as your autism influences your opinion. Until than your gamer status is revoked and you will be called names.

I assume you have a mental issue so I try to make this as obvious as possible. Hopefully you also dont have a reading issue

>> No.10577949

>>10577946
Settle down, Anon. I'm not even that guy. I was just pointing out some games had trackers for that bullshit. I think the number of games I find actually fun to 100% can be counted on a single hand. Most of the time it's just not worth it.

>> No.10577952

>>10577913
>you'd have to look at a guide to know if you missed anything
I already said this earlier in the thread. Learn to read.

>> No.10577953

>>10576949
Did you beat the second quest of zelda 1 without a guide? How did you figure out the illusiory walls that reguire you to walk into them for 2 seconds until you phase through them? Completely new addition ofcourse, they didn't even exist in the first quest. The first quest can be beaten without a guide, but without the hidden heart containers that can let you obtain the master sword relatively early, it is much harder to fight through the 6th dungeon. But theoretically you can blow up random walls on the overmap to find some of them.

>> No.10577954
File: 369 KB, 638x476, this ain't my sword.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10577954

>>10577953
>master sword

>> No.10577959

>>10577946
You're a retard, the thread is about how people say CV2 is a bad game is because it's obtuse and you need a guide for it... yet Zelda is a good game, and no one ever mentions about how you need a guide for it. It was never about the compulsion to 100% a game.

>> No.10577961

play however you want. nobody cares

>>10576929
there is no stigma. nobody cares.

>>10577475
ok, nobody cares

>> No.10577963

I give a puzzle 20 minutes. If I can't figure it out, then guide. Most of the time it's one of those "who in the world would have ever figured that out!?" Things, but there is the occasion that the answer is staring you right in the face and those do feel bad.

>> No.10578170

>>10577961
people shouldn't play however they want if it means robbing themselves of the best games have to offer in favor of meaningless stimming.

>> No.10578225

>>10576953
Burning trees, I think, is something you'll probably just try because IIRC the candle works an infinite number of times, just once whenever you enter every screen. The walls start off cracked and make a funny noise when you hit them, so it's obvious that there's something you have to do to them.

>> No.10578237

>>10578225
>The walls start off cracked and make a funny noise when you hit them
That's actually not in Zelda 1. There are no cracked walls and the sword cannot be used to test for bombable areas.

>> No.10578247

If Castlevania 2 was initially created in Japan but was created to sell guides & magazines, then why did you need Nintendo power, an American magazine as a guide. You didn't see Japanese people buying Nintendo power.

If that makes any sense nobody ever said you had to buy a guide. Not one time have you seen a Video Game Player International Charter where it was written that players are not allowed to use a guide. Either you had a friend who knew where you didn't. Otherwise mow the grass, get 10 dollars and buy the guide. Either you choose to use a guide or you don't.

>> No.10578329

>>10576929
That's a really awkward post, ZZZelda games don't require guides and they're not good either

>> No.10579040

>>10577959
>You're a retard, the thread is about how people say CV2 is a bad game

It isn't. Hardly anyone is talking about CV2. There is a picture of CV2 in OP's thread but his post doesn't mention it. He's not talking about it. He just has an image and you are required to post an image to start a thread.

>> No.10579078

How the fuck would I know to change characters position in Breath of Fire to be able to walk through trees?

>> No.10580387

>>10578329
>Zelda doesn't require a guide
Yes, they do. Give the game to a child and see how they tell you it sucks because they have no fucking clue what to do. THERES NO ARROW POINTING TO THE NEXT TRIFORCE PIECE REEEEEEEE

>> No.10582421

>>10576929
>you didn't beat the game
tranny meme