/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10135951]

I'm so happy they never released this garbage. Sonic Adventure was the perfect jump to 3D for the series.

[Batowl No.10136007]

>>10135951
Sad the kino didn't came out.

[Anonymous No.10136052]

>>10135951
If only Sonic had been more popular in Japan, we might have gotten a Sonic Saturn game that was actually good

[Anonymous No.10136067]

>>10135951
They should had just made a regular 2D sonic game with some 3D effects and background switching like they're doing with superstars, prefereably before mario 64 released. Would had been better than no sonic at all.

[Anonymous No.10136081]

32-bit consoles are inherently underpowered to play Sonic. Fact.

[Anonymous No.10136085]

>>10135951
>I'm so happy they never released this garbage
Heh, yeah...

[Anonymous No.10136123]

>>10136007
Very contrarian. Why are you like this?

[Anonymous No.10136127]

>>10136052
More like "If only Yuji Naka wasn't such a retard".
Seriously, who thought NiGHTS would do better over Sonic. I like that game especially due to its OST, but it was such a bizarre situation.

[Anonymous No.10136136]

>>10136127
I have never actually played Nights but I've listened to the soundtrack multiple times. Absolutely incredible. I'm afraid the game won't live up to it when I finally get around to playing it

[Anonymous No.10136145]

>>10136136
its a very unique experience, highly recommend. just go in knowing it's an arcade-y kind of game

[Anonymous No.10136152]

>>10136127
Naka was tired of Sonic at the time.

[Anonymous No.10136163]

>>10136127
It's a good thing he's in jail now, fucking nights piece of shit.

[Batowl No.10136174]

>>10136123
Anti smarks are based

[Anonymous No.10136179]

>be sega
>make super scaler games
>then eventually actual 3d with virtua racing, virtua fighter, daytona usa
>don't have the foresight to make saturn a capable 3d system
>okay whatever, but you can at least make a good 2d sonic for saturn
>still didn't develop a 2d sonic game for saturn
why

[Anonymous No.10136183]

>>10136136
NiGHTS you'll either like or you won't, no real middle ground. I think its a fun score attack game, albeit very short.
Best advice for NiGHTS is that you're sort of running laps around the map. There's these gate checkpoints you can go through when you're done a lap, but don't go through them right away the moment you've done one. Fly over it and try to do another if the timer allows it to increase your score. It's not a "deep" game but it is a fun one if it clicks with you.

[Anonymous No.10136184]

>>10136179
Because the 32x already had a 2d sonic.

[Anonymous No.10136218]

>>10135951
Sonic Adventure is also the more interesting prototype, since we know a Saturn version exists, we just don't have footage or playable rom data of it, sort of like Dust Hill Zone in Sonic 2. We also know that X-Treme was going to be on 32X as Sonic Mars and later PC, but people only talk about the Saturn prototype.

>>10136127
At the very least he should've shared his source code with STI. It would've cost him nothing to do this

>>10136184
Exactly this, Chaotix "Sonic Crackers" started on Genesis, was moved to Saturn for a while, and then eventually back onto 32X

[Anonymous No.10136229]

>>10136179
They technically did, complete with a brand new engine, but it was wasted on more Genesis ports. To me this is like the equivalent of getting Super Mario All-Stars + World on N64 instead of Super Mario 64

[Anonymous No.10136259]

>>10135951
They should've just made Sonic 4. Yeah it would've got mocked for being 2D but at least there's a sonic game on the Saturn.

Instead they waste time on shit like Clockwork Knight and Fighting Vipers.

[Anonymous No.10136260]

Perhaps Sega should've let Traveller's tales handle the main line 3d Sonic game rather than a spin-off that was also going to be on the genesis.

[Anonymous No.10136262]

>>10136259
Fighting Vipers is cool.

[Anonymous No.10136310]

>>10135951
You wouldn't know if it was garbage unless they actually finished it

[Anonymous No.10136385]

>>10136260
Their 3D platformers of the era were good and they pulled off nice Saturn wizardry, they'd have been the best bet that wasn't Sonic Team imo

[Anonymous No.10136393]

I'm so tired of seeing this thread. It's been discussed to death. There's nothing left to say. Please post anything else.

[Anonymous No.10136421]

>>10136393
Bump

[Anonymous No.10136424]

Putting your flagship series under the responsibility of Americans was the dumbest idea ever

[Anonymous No.10136436]

>>10136421
We've uncovered everything there was to these old betas. Unless someone creates a fan remake there will be no more content.

[Anonymous No.10136454]

>>10135951
When they *did* relase the kino a full 30 years later everybody hated it.

[Anonymous No.10136460]

>>10136424
Didn't STI still have some Japanese people there? Specifically people that came with Yuji Naka and refused to come back with him on the return flight?

[Anonymous No.10136509]

>>10136179
From whatI understand, Sega Japan wanted each "generation" to have a different mascot. For SG-1000, it was this rabbit fucker. For Master System, it was Alex Kidd. For Mega Drive era, it was Sonic the Hedgehog. Post-Mega Drive was a hotmess of company branch politics so Saturn didn't really have a true mascot, but you can tell they wanted it to be NiGHTS. Dreamcast was when Sega Japan decided to throw the Americans a bone and bring back Sonic as the mascot, on the condition that he was reinvented.
You can bet that Sega would have kept cycling through mascots if they didn't go third-party.

[Anonymous No.10136518]

>>10136259
Fighting Vipers is great midwit

[Anonymous No.10136520]

>>10135951
this looks cool, i would've loved a sonic game like this.
reminds me of the same 3D/2D style they used for Bug Too.

[Anonymous No.10136535]

>>10136259
This has been contested, but Sonic 4 might have been a thing that fell victim to the 32X inanity.
>>10136509
NiGHTS was the mascot of the analog controller, so I'd still consider him the Saturn mascot.

[Anonymous No.10136556]

>>10136509
Was Alex Kidd even used in a mascot capacity back then? Assbin and Sonic certainly were, but I dunno about Kidd.
People seem to confuse company mascot, with character who is in company games.

[Anonymous No.10136568]

>>10135951
Sonic Adventure was a middle of the pack janky 3D platformer BECAUSE they'd never made a 3D Sonic game before. If they had some prior experience, such as by working on Extreme to completion, things would have turned out better by Dreamcast time because the developers would have gotten more skilled.

[Anonymous No.10136591]

>>10136052
Why did sonic never take off in nipland like he did with the west? Was SoJ terrible at advertising him or did they just not really care for him?

[Anonymous No.10136615]

>>10136556
Wasn't that his entire character arc in Segagaga?

[Anonymous No.10136624]

>>10136127
>>10136218
I said it before and I'll say it again: the Sega landscape would have been a lot better if only they had their priorities straight and Sonic Adventure and NiGHTs traded places.

[Anonymous No.10136640]

>>10136615
His story in Segagaga was more that his games couldn't compete with Nintendo and Mario so he was dumped for Sonic.
Besides I was talking more IRL, like representing the company on magazine adverts beyond his own games, arcade flyers, business letterheads, etc. I personally haven't seen Alex Kidd in any kind of mascot presence

[Anonymous No.10136662]

>>10136591
He's got attitude, Japs are too reserved.

[Anonymous No.10136740]

>>10136556
>>10136640
He was the one IP Sega had before Sonic with the most games and even an arcade racer on top of being inside the memory of first SMS variants.
Even if he originally wasn't supposed to be the mascot, he functionally was and is now treated as such.
Kind of like Crash for the Ps1 but even more so.

[Anonymous No.10136747]

>>10136591
Because sega themselves were seem as mostly an arcade company with a console for ports.
The rest of the world view them the other way around.

[Anonymous No.10136750]

>>10136007
Agreed, these recent screens shown off makes me even more disappointed we didn't get it. Sucks they didn't even let the team release it as a pc exclusive later on. Since it was Sega themselves who showed these off, i kinda got a bit of hope they may try finishing it or handing it off to the Mania guys to cash on some nostalgia/infamous history cash.

[Anonymous No.10136754]

>>10136152
Aww, poor baby. Thats fine, you just go and make your flying clown game. Dont you worry at all about our new hardware needing to prove itself nor the hugely popular IP in the west that has become a household name.

[Anonymous No.10136767]

>>10136754
I hate Naka as much as the next guy, but i'm with him on this one, he created and/or was involved in 4 Sonic games at that point.
If SoA wanted a 3d Sonic then they either should've settled for a 3d sidescroller or let Traveller's tale handle the main line game rather than spin-offs, let the man have his passion project.

[Anonymous No.10136828]

>>10136127
>>10136152
>>10136754
>>10136767
Naka didn't direct Nights, Iizuka did. And even so one person doesn't dictate the rest of Sonic Team. That said, after pumping out 3-4 games in the same series in a span of about 3 years would get old after awhile, so I could see why they'd want to take a break with Sonic for awhile.

The real question is why did Sega management decided to let some rando team in STI make the next big Sonic game

[Batowl No.10136849]

>>10136229
Wish they ported that again.

[Anonymous No.10136871]

>>10136740
So just a videogame character then, not an actual mascot? Gotcha, glad we cleared that up.

[Anonymous No.10136910]

>>10136828
>The real question is why did Sega management decided to let some rando team in STI make the next big Sonic game

They weren't randos, they were probably the strongest in-house team SoA had, who already worked on two Sonic games, plus Comix Zone and The Ooze, and they had programmers who already worked with the Saturn (and 32x, and even nvidia nv1).

Which didn't help because doing an AAA 3d game from scratch on the Saturn inside a year is Mission Impossible. And that's not counting the fact that they forced them to reset the project halfway through.

[Anonymous No.10136931]

>>10136229
Sonic Jam's Sonic World is literally a prototype Sonic adventure with a bunch of assets they had at the time.

[Anonymous No.10136937]

>>10136871
Any official source will tell you he was the mascot for the SMS.

[Anonymous No.10136960]

>>10136640
Alex Kidd was in every SMS megazine and commercial...he just wasn't the front and center of them.
You could argue that this isn't a good way to represent a supposed mascot but then again, the rabbit guy was the previous mascot and he never got a single game and i never saw a megazine with him on the cover.

[Anonymous No.10137226]

>>10136767
Once your console has a comfortable, global foothold, thats when you work on experimental pet projects.

[Anonymous No.10137263]

>>10137226
Naka unironically believe the Saturn would do well in the rest of the world because of its success in japan, he even chimped out when someone showed him evidence of the contrary.

[Anonymous No.10137325]

>>10137263
Japan acting like the rest of the world is also japan, not much new there

[Anonymous No.10137335]

>>10136454
I bring this up all the time. Reala, Jackle, Puffy, and Gillwing are literally in the game, it was just stuck on a failed console (kind of like the Saturn)

[Anonymous No.10137339]

>>10136767
>or let Traveller's tale handle the main line game rather than spin-offs
There is no reason for Sonic R to exist. When Xtreme got cancelled they should have immediately told Traveller's Tales to start working on a mainline Sonic game. When you think about TT's output it's clear they were waiting for their chance. It's frustrating because they were a fantastic developer. Traveller's Tales is Naughty Dog without finding it's Crash Bandicoot.

[Anonymous No.10137341]

>>10135951
>Sonic 3D Blast* was the perfect jump to 3D for the series
fixed

[Anonymous No.10137369]

>>10136767
>>10137339
I'm convinced they could've made a really good proper 2D or 3D Sonic platformer for Saturn too. I feel Jon Burton would know something about this...

[Anonymous No.10137425]

>>10137369
I always felt Sonic R could have been turned into some reminiscent of the Sonic stages in Adventure, like a constant momentum based action game. Boss fights could even have used something similar to a racing set up in a vein of the final fight between Sonic and Shadow in Adventure 2.

[Anonymous No.10138790]

it would've been shit, an even earlier start to the sonic cycle

[Anonymous No.10139514]

>>10135951
>Sonic Xtreme was just going to be a faster Bug! with a fish eye lense
Thank god this never happened

[Anonymous No.10141520]

Fuck you OP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPxsGUi4unQ

[Anonymous No.10141525]

>>10136460
Don't reply to him, he's a anti American spic thinking in hindsight of the state of American pre wokism. Pre 2009 America had no reason to seethe over, and worshipping Japan before the weebization of America with anime was far more frown upon.

[Anonymous No.10141531]

>>10136591
They don't like furries. Crash is too wacky like a yokai to be seen like a furry like sonic.

[Anonymous No.10141534]

Dreamcast really is better. I like Saturn for its cool design, controller, long boxes, and some of its games, but there's no denying Dreamcast more in its 636 titles than Saturn had in its 1,107. Just so much wasted potential

[Anonymous No.10141993]

>>10141531
When Pokemon exists? I don't think so lol

[Anonymous No.10142708]

>>10141993
Retard, animal /= furry. They like the wacky yokai looking designed slop we get now, not the waifumon which polls proves it's westerners that like them. Try again.

[Anonymous No.10143220]

>>10135951
To be fair, the Sega Saturn can't into much better. Sega Saturn lacks the dedicated 3D graphics processing needed to compete with PS1 and N64. Besides, an evolution of Sonic 3 & Knuckles would have more accurately demonstrated the Saturn's capabilities. Think Sonic Freedom, but with more 90s attitude, and some token 3D graphics for the sake of marketing. Critics would have loved the buttery smooth animations such a thing could have had.

[Anonymous No.10143239]

>>10143220
Saturn can handle pandemonium, it can handle a Sonic 3D as long as it's a side scroller.

[Anonymous No.10143248]

>>10135951
this shit looks like Bug, in a bad way

[Anonymous No.10143261]

>>10143239
Just because it can, doesn't mean it should. There is a reason why so many third party publishers shunned the Saturn. They wanted their 3D graphics so fucking bad, but the Saturn's hardware trolled them too hard.

[Anonymous No.10143262]

>>10136591
I feel like Sonics unpopularity in Japan is a bit exaggerated. Clearly, he's not as popular there as he is in other parts of the world. But does that mean he's absolutely unknown, or hated and spat upon? No, he's just not quite as popular.

[Anonymous No.10143268]

>>10136127
>>10136136
>90s Sega game
>amazing OST, middling gameplay
Many such cases.

[Anonymous No.10143289]

>>10136218
sonic adventure as we know it simply wouldnt be possible on the saturn. the most they could do is a game with the mission structure of sonic jam, where each stage is its own little hub world with things to do, kinda like mario 64. still wouldve been fun but it wouldnt have had that traditional sonic feel that dreamcast adventure had, since the saturn simply wouldnt be able to handle stages that big to accomodate the speed.

[Anonymous No.10143343]

>>10136081
...The fact that all the GOOD Sonic games are on less powerful systems than the 32-bit consoles makes this comment... Interesting?

[Anonymous No.10143367]

>>10136179
My hot take is that they should have made a 3D Sonic game using the voxel landscape technology from AMOK, using scaled sprites for the characters.

>But that wasn't made by Sega!
Sega was aware of it, it started out as part of an internal system demo.
>But the draw distance and limited world size!
You could get around both those problems using a tiled mipmapping approach, like Outcast did on the PC two years later.

[Anonymous No.10143447]

>>10143262
(That picture was taken at SegaWorld in Sydney, anon... I mean, it doesn't really invalidate your point, but the fact that your picture of a Japanese child standing with a Sonic statue had to be taken in Australia maybe says something, no?)

[Anonymous No.10143453]

Glad Naka raped gaijins until their buttholes bleed. We need more japs like him rapin the white boys like Pearl Harbor.

[Anonymous No.10143478]

>>10143262
I mean we know Sonic Jam was specifically made as part of a sonic awareness campaign in Japland, so SoJ didn't consider him popular enough there.

[Anonymous No.10143484]

>>10143478
qrd?

[Anonymous No.10143486]

>>10143453
he said thats not true and he never made any documentation for it so theres no way they couldve used it, though he couldve just been trying to save face

[Anonymous No.10144153]

>>10143262
As far as SoJ is concerned if 1% of their nation only likes Sonic and the western side is so big it's basically dictating how you would make Sonic to the point it's going against your vision of him? Yeah it's a big deal, that's the problem. No one said Japs hate Sonic, anyone that did is just shitposting. it's just fact they simply don't love him like the west does. For every fan of Sonic in the west it's like a 1000 to 1 ratio in Japan. And that's not including the "anti" Sonicfags that seethe over him but can't get over him despite hating him. Making this more like a 1 million to 1 ratio.

[Anonymous No.10144161]

Glad Naka is being raped in prison until his butthole bleeds. We need more westerners unlike him raping his made up legacy into the ground for being a treasonous traitor of SEGA.

[Anonymous No.10144563]

>>10135951
It could have gone a number of ways, I guess. But Sonic Adventure is a trash game.

[Anonymous No.10144609]

>>10136767
Realtime Associates was contracted by SoA to make a Sonic game for the American Saturn launch, but someone at SoJ (probably Naka) vetoed that, so they made Bug!.

[Anonymous No.10144647]

>>10136229
>getting Super Mario All-Stars + World on N64 instead of Super Mario 64
yeah but you still get bob-omb battlefield to fuck around in

[Anonymous No.10144650]

>>10137425
that sounds like the premise for a mobile game rather than anything actually fun

[Anonymous No.10144825]

>>10143367
Even the CD could've handled a 3D Sonic game, it had the tech for it. Just look at Sonic CD's Special Stages for an example

[Anonymous No.10144902]

>>10136081
GOTTA GO FAST

[Anonymous No.10144925]

I'm so happy they

[Anonymous No.10144935]

>>10144825
thats not actually 3d and the retro engine special stages are different. you might as well say the genesis can handle 3d because the sonic 2 remake uses 3d rendered special stages.

[Anonymous No.10145009]

>>10144935
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0NDUj3QBdA

It's basically Mode 7 3D, not as advanced as 32X which could handle actual 3D, but still kind of impressive to look at

[Anonymous No.10145057]

>>10144925
same

[Anonymous No.10145091]

>>10144825
They absolutely could have made some kind of Sonic game using Mode7 + Sprite Scaling on the SegaCD (or even with pure sprite scaling on the Genesis - like Space Harrier 2)

https://youtu.be/jytoxoJ__3w

[Anonymous No.10145137]

>>10145091
it wouldve sucked though, sonic CDs special stages are janky as fuck if you dont know what you're doing

[Anonymous No.10145178]

>>10145137
They could have made a Space Harrier-esque runner or a Dragon View-esque walk-em-up, and they might have been okay by those standards, but they certainly would have been very different from what we usually think of as a Sonic game

[Anonymous No.10145212]

>>10136260
This.
Sonic R looked good and played well. If they had been given a good budget they could have made a cool main Sonic game.

[Anonymous No.10145224]

>>10145091
>>10144825
Yeah I really wanna play a flat plane at 20fps

[Anonymous No.10145320]

>>10145224
>It wouldn't have been a GOOD 3D Sonic game
So different from what we got then

[Anonymous No.10145350]

A 2D game in that engine, where you occasionally move in and out of the background like Klonoa would have been perfect. They tried to be too clever about what they were doing.

[Anonymous No.10145364]

>>10137341
I know this was probably meant as a joke... but I genuinely agree with it.
Of course, Sonic Adventure is a much better video game, and it was the 1st time Sonic was done in real 3D, instead of isometric, it translated the 2D Sonic installments into 3D as accurately as possible at the time... but still, Sonic 3D Blast doesn't get enough credit, it was the only sort of 3D Sonic platformer on the Saturn, and honestly it was a decent attempt at bringing Sonic into 3D, of course isometric might not be really 3D, but the illusion gets the job done, you can move in 3 axis and the level desing does the same, it doesn't feel flat as you go up and down and all around, just so much depth, and fun to explore aswell, pretty much a Collect-A-Thon if you think about it...
If this was made as a Saturn exclusive, with the same mechanics and excellent level design to explore, but in real 3D like Sonic Jam... it would've been a classic.

[Anonymous No.10145453]

>>10141531
>They don't like furries
>What is pic related

[Anonymous No.10145476]

>>10141531
>Who is Tezuka?

[Anonymous No.10145506]

>>10145476

[Anonymous No.10145513]

>>10145476
Tezuka, Sanrio, Digimon, etc.

[Anonymous No.10145670]

>>10136067
That's easy for you to say today, when you can enjoy the entire library of all consoles, and whether a game released 25 years ago was bad or not doesn't matter because you have 10,000 more to play. Also, you can enjoy all kinds of presentation styles because, again, for old games it doesn't matter.

However, at the time, Sega was the #2 gaming company and their flagship franchise needed to push the envelope. They were competing with Mario, not fucking Klonoa.

[Anonymous No.10146338]

>>10145091
Where's the FUCKING PHYSICS you shitposting retards?
How are you going to have slopes if everything's a flat fucking sprite?

You're asking for Temple Run Sonic before Unleashed happened.

[Anonymous No.10146340]

>>10145453
Yokai, not furries.

[Anonymous No.10146341]

>>10145506
>>10145476
Existing /= cultural phenomenon like in the west.

[Anonymous No.10146771]

>>10145670
You say that, but Crash Bandicoot is like borderline a sidescroller, and that was probably the second biggest platforming franchise in the world at the time.
As long as you have a few stages where you run down a tunnel, and a few stages where you run sideways, and occasionally step in or out of the background, the masses would more or less accept it as a "real 3D game".

Also that's literally just Nights, and that was the thing that Sega were pushing as a flagship series in the place of Sonic.

[Anonymous No.10146843]

>>10146771
You really are underselling what people want from Sonic back then ,you reek of 2010s zoomer or just non fan
Sonic isn't "fast Mario" he's a physics based platformer. Why do you think people didn't like R or 3D Blast? There were none of this. People want the momentum, it's why people don't want the modern Sonic games past the adventure titles and want the classic game back and why Mania was a massive success despite being told if that came out on the saturn it would have been 06 tier hated.

[Anonymous No.10146864]

>>10146843
What part of making a 2D game in a 3D engine means it can't have the physics? It would probably be easier to do it that way.

[Anonymous No.10146865]

>>10135951
People don't actually think this looked any good right? I figured the fixation on it was just because it had an interesting development history.

[Anonymous No.10146869]

>>10146865
I like the whole visual it had going on. It does not look particularly good to play.

[Anonymous No.10146890]

>>10135951
Chris Coffin was a mistake

[Anonymous No.10146912]

>Naka
Who?

[Anonymous No.10146929]

>>10141531
>this myth again
Why do you think they like to copy Disney, the forefather of furry mascots and most anime (sitcoms aside).

[Anonymous No.10146947]

>>10142708
>he thinks it's just waifumons
Nobody tell him about Japan's wrestler and muscle culture.

[Anonymous No.10147034]

>>10146864
Without slopes?

[Anonymous No.10147081]

>>10146340
Ok, what do you define as furry then?
Cuz not all yokai are anthropomorphic animals

[Anonymous No.10147215]

>>10146341
>Tezuka's works weren't a cutural phenomenon in japan
Tell me you're retarded without telling me you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.10147216]

>>10146340
That's some low quality bait.

[Anonymous No.10147221]

>>10147034
Sprite scaling racers can do basic slopes, as long as you're only travelling forwards.
i.e. https://youtu.be/eXOu_ZTehks..

For Mode 7, you could do more of a 'Pinball' thing, have jumppad sprites, or combine with some very basic polygonal 3D - like the Jetski section of California Games 2 (PC version), or the Archimedes version of Starfighter 3000:
https://youtu.be/gKEaX4RjWkk

You could perhaps combine these two approaches in alternating levels for more variety.

No one's saying it would be ideal - or even very good - just theoretically possible, and probably would have impressed people in the early 90s.

Voxels would be better, but would need at least the Sega32X
https://youtu.be/pOWZbydnlZE
The draw distance here is pretty brutal, but could potentially be improved in several different ways.

[Anonymous No.10147227]

>>10147081
nta, but he pretty clearly means monster-y rather than sexy

[Anonymous No.10147253]

>>10147227
>Rouge
>Nidoqueen + other waifumons
>The one piece furries
>All the japanese doujins about Undertale
That guy is still wrong.

[Anonymous No.10147380]

>>10147253
>>All the japanese doujins about Undertale
is there something you'd like to tell the class

[Anonymous No.10147445]

>>10146865
Why dont you think it looks good? Gameplay may not have lived up to it, but it has a cool, unique look i can't say i have seen another game pull off. Some may say Bug, but its still not close.

[Anonymous No.10147564]

... Everyone is aware that fan-made recreations of these for the original hardware exist, right?

Sonic Xtreme (original FOV accurate version)
https://youtu.be/MA5EzJoNG9k

Sonic Ztreme (enhanced graphics normal FOV version)
https://youtu.be/5rUHd5k8xAg

Not sure if they look fun