/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10107872]

What retro game had the BEST plot in your opinion? I have never been one to care about plot, but I got more interested in it recently. Pic semi-related, I haven't played much more beside it.

[Anonymous No.10107885]

MGS1. You can literally play only that, no prequels or sequels, and come out satisfied with the ending.

[Anonymous No.10107892]

>>10107872
Comix Zone
>comic book villain escapes comic book and traps artist in the pages
could have made for a good movie or cartoon series imo, fun, simple, well executed story

[Anonymous No.10107902]

The original Prey.

[Anonymous No.10107918]

I still don’t get Sephiroth’s goal. He wanted to become god by ripping a hole in the planet?

[Anonymous No.10107936]

>>10107872
FFVII plot is straight ass

[Anonymous No.10107938]

>>10107918
Ever see "The Thing?"

[Anonymous No.10107952]

>>10107872
pathologic

[Anonymous No.10107957]

>>10107872
This game has one of the dumbest and poorly told plots in all of gaming.
To answer the question, RE1s plot is actually done extremely well

[Anonymous No.10107973]

>>10107872
Xenogears. Planescape:Torment is good too. FF7 also has a very solid and satisfying plot.

[Anonymous No.10107983]

>>10107918
He mistakenly thought that he was a Cetra, and therefore thought it was his right to be absorbed by the lifestream and become one with the planet. But when 4 years passed and he still wasn't absorbed, he decided some more drastic measures needed to be taken, as opposed to him realizing he was wrong.

[Anonymous No.10108000]

>>10107938
Jenova is The Thing, Sephiroth is like Griffith/Lucifer/Android 17

[Anonymous No.10108001]

>>10107983
I actually kind of like that Sephiroth had erroneus beliefs all that time. this is surprisingly realistic. he read up something he didn't understand, got radicalized by it and made up a wrong conspiracy theory, decided "this is who I am and Jenova is my mother"… this is actually a lot like some retards act IRL. regardless, I like this better than some generic baddie being bad again.

[Anonymous No.10108007]

>>10108000
And by the end of the game he's those 3 mixed with the thing, he just wants to go from planet to planet consuming life

[Anonymous No.10108056]

Some great ones already mentioned, Final Fantasy Tactics is really fucking great.

[Anonymous No.10108203]

>>10107902
Underrated

[Anonymous No.10108291]

>>10108056
This

[Anonymous No.10109356]

>>10108056
yea

[Anonymous No.10109376]

>>10107918
>>10107983
>>10108001
>>10108007
You didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10109414]

>>10109376
and you're an ESL that didn't understand this scene.

[Anonymous No.10109545]

Pokemon red / blue, simple plot and engaging gameplay. Still holds up and very re playable

[Anonymous No.10109552]

Double Dragon.

Punks steal your girl. You beat them all up and rescue her.

[Anonymous No.10109569]

>>10107872
i think final fantasy 4 probably has the most consistent ff plot until about half way through the game. ff6 is the most well told and consistent through the entire game. ff7 is a mess.

i think shadow of the colossus did it best. video game plots suck, so it just made the gameplay the plot. distilled to an essence without any storytelling.

[Anonymous No.10109597]

>>10107872
If you think any jarpig plot is good you've lost it

[Anonymous No.10109654]

[Anonymous No.10109683]

>>10109654
Most of that is world building, not really plot. Though I do like FF1's world a lot.

[Anonymous No.10109702]

>>10107872

ff7 was terrible. large wholescale pieces of its scenario were lifted from stuff that was still in publication when it came out.

>>10109569
ff4, the halfway part being the underworld? or the overall moon plot? it seems like the scenario is fine, but the narrative doesn't do a good job of helping the player extrapolate meaning.

Like, back then when the Giant appeared, i just accepted it without explanation. OK there's a giant and its going to end the world. Its a videogame, and the player is 11. but now, know there is some missing narrative that explained it was beamed down from the moon by the tower, and it was a lunarian WMD that Zemus was using to clear the planet for lunarians to take over.

[Anonymous No.10109767]

>>10109702
yeah, underworld is exactly what i had in mind. that's where the character progression gets a bit funky, and the classical monotony of 1-3 take over. imo the moon kinda does a good job of refocusing everything. it's a weird and abrupt change of pace from the first half, which is a pretty driven story (except for maybe the magnet cave).

i don't remember most of it in much detail, since i haven't played it in a while, but i like the wmd analysis.

[Anonymous No.10109872]

No, im not trolling

[Anonymous No.10109931]

>>10107936

Much as I hate admitting it, yes. In real life, it would've been childishly easy for Shinra to destroy Avalanche. They're a revolutionary terrorist group that does no op-sec whatsoever. They literally let in an enemy agent after randomly meeting him off the street, except Shinra was so incompetent they just had to pick the one guy in their org who isn't a sociopath to be the one going undercover.

There are many games with worse plots, including most of the other Square games, and all the other FFVII games. But if this is your standard for a good plot, I seriously question your taste. You can do much better.

[Anonymous No.10109965]

>>10109414
meant for >>10107918 >>10107983 >>10108001 >>10108007

[Anonymous No.10110437]

>>10109767

That's pretty much all. Cecil's character growth stops as soon as he becomes a paladin. Then we have a bunch of meaningless "sacrifices" (they die only to resurrect offscreen a few minutes later) and then you're on the moon. I've been replaying all FF games I to IX and the sad truth is that the series starts have decent writing from VI, with all previous titles having only good ideas that are implemented better a decade later or so.

[Anonymous No.10110446]

>half the people say FFVII plot is bad
>no one posts anything better
>arguments on the level of "why didn't they fly eagles straight to Shinra"

[Anonymous No.10110791]

>>10110446

The Fellowship didn't pick random guys off the street to join their party, only to accidentally pick up the one member of Sauron's forces who wasn't evil.

Keep in mind, I like FFVII. But it's still noticeably not on the level of Majora's Mask or FF Tactics (which itself has the serious flaw of clearly being rushed as fuck around the last third), let alone the top-level plots of today, like Undertale, Omori, or Disco Elysium.

Plus, the translation was absolute ass, well below even the lowest standards of modern major studios, and those cheap bastards at Square have never gone back to fix it. Not even after Project Beacause went and fixed it for free over a decade ago. Just pay that guy and install his work, you fucks!

[Anonymous No.10110796]

>>10110446
It's just FF6 fedora tipping contrarians who think a clown who poisons kingdoms...because he's evil is compelling.

[Anonymous No.10110826]

>>10107872
i can give FF7 credit for being one of the earliest games i played where i gave a shit about whether characters lived or died. i have all kinds of gripes about FF7, but you can at least say the story was engaging.

>>10107973
i'd say xenogears is a big win for its time because it's extremely ambitious about what it's trying to do. it's not the only time i've seen japan get fixated on carl jung (darius gaiden...i shit you not), and to me it makes sense that nietzsche would've been a household name at squaresoft at the time, considering their romance with norse mythology.

i think the difficult part about xenogears is how exactly carl jung or nietzsche actually play into the story. you have anima and animus, which are unconscious male/female forces according to jung, and there are archetypes that run throughout the human bloodline. so regardless of whether there's any legitimacy to that idea, it's still a hell of a good idea for a plot. i guess my actual problem with xenogears is that i'm not sure what POINT they're trying to make. man creates a super weapon which goes on to repair itself by creating self-aware humans who aren't keen on being used as replaceable parts. i mean i guess we're back to chrono trigger.

i almost don't care that xenogears is convoluted because at the end of the day i get to pilot mechs that perform kung fu and the main character is his own darth vader.

[Anonymous No.10110842]

>>10110791

I will say that FFVII deserves credit for to this day being one of the only games to kill off a proper player character, have it happen no matter what you do, and to not have said character replaced by an identical clone. That took serious balls. The kind of balls Square themselves clearly don't have anymore, and it's one of the many things about the game that still deserves respect even today, along with depicting a truly believable love triangle, and also having a rather stunningly blatant sex scene just before you go off and face the final boss.

It's still noticeably flawed. Even with the translation patched. Bit it nonetheless isn't just holding up on nostalgia.

[Anonymous No.10110847]

>>10107973
>Planescape:Torment
yeah i think this is an important game for its time. i remember seeing a trailer for it when installing baldur's gate and made it a point to play it. i just never saw it in stores. it does a stupid good job at world building, so any of the drama that goes on is easy to get into.

i also think baldur's gate is worth mentioning because it was my first time (and i imagine many people's) being completely exposed to a D&D setting. it starts out just like lord of the rings: you have to run from home in order to deal with a big evil, but you're constantly being pursued by the enemy. so no points for originality, but at least the game does a good job of putting you into the thick of it. it's the same reason people like the plot of warcraft 3: frozen throne. it knows the correct LotR-style story beats to hit, and hits them.

>>10108056
i don't think there's a single other game on consoles at the time that had as big a story as FFT. i find delita's arc pretty satisfying.

[Anonymous No.10110858]

>>10110842
>kill off a proper player character,
right, and i think that's why there's so much adolescent adoration for FF7. many if not most people who played FF7 when it came out had just gotten off of 16-bit games and were just getting into puberty. so even though killing off a main character in the grand scheme of books, movies, etc. is hardly a new way of subverting expectations, it was impactful because it was a lot of people's first time.

also, nostalgia.

[Anonymous No.10110880]

>>10110791
>let alone the top-level plots of today, like Undertale
opinion discarded

[Anonymous No.10110889]

>>10110791
Bro by the time Cait Sith joins the party Shinra only considers Avalanche as an afterthought. They're chasing Sephiroth and the promised land too. Even with Reeves initially playing spy he was essentially just keeping an eye on them. With avalanche no longer blowing up reactors and stuff Shinra had no reason to send thousands of troops after them.

[Anonymous No.10110902]

>>10110889
oh.

well, that explains everything then.

[Anonymous No.10110903]

>>10110826

Xenogears suffered majorly because the devs had no idea how to budget their time. Ten main characters and two different combat systems is way too tall an order for a two-year dev time. Hence why no one else has ever attempted such a thing, and why the game is so blatantly unfinished.

[Anonymous No.10110905]

>>10110902
this but unironically

[Anonymous No.10110910]

>>10110880

Hi, Razor!

MJ was a pedo, and DJT sold June and Eric's virgin buttholes to him. And they were sold cheap.

[Anonymous No.10110938]

>>10110889

If they consider them an afterthought, why are they having one of their top executives infiltrate their party? They blew up an eighth of their own city to try and kill these people!

Besides, it's hardly the only dumb thing characters in the game do for no reason. It happens even at the very start of the game. There was no reason for Barrett to recruit a guy who, as far as he knew, was part of the enemy's special-forces unit, least of all when said guy admits he doesn't care about the cause and is only doing it for the money.

Can you imagine al-Qaeda recruiting an ex-Navy SEAL who said he didn't give a crap about all this "Islam" nonsense and just wanted the money? Even the dumbest, lowest-level street gang has better op-sec than this.

[Anonymous No.10110946]

>>10110938
heh yeah sounds like fiction to me

[Anonymous No.10110951]

>>10110946

Yeah. Dumb fiction. I'm sorry your favorite story when you were nine was poorly written.

[Anonymous No.10111045]

>>10110446
>Game starts out with you as a merc for an eco-terrorist organization
>Your childhood friend/love interest just happens to be a member for no reason. She also doesn't immediately point out you're seemingly insane and just ignores it.
>meet some random flower girl who has been stalked by the covert intelligence team for half her life but never captured despite living in total poverty and having no fighting abilities
>Circumstances put you infiltrating the main Shinra HQ, where Sephiroth kills everyone, which was your goal to begin with, but for reason is now really bad. This convinces everyone they must go stop him for no reason other than he's the designated bad guy of the game, despite only Cloud and Tifa having any personal investment.
>Tifa doubling down on ignoring schizophrenia in the village
>What little interesting aspects of the story exist evaporate here as it turns into a generic jrpg where you go to towns which all randomly involve some aspect from a party members past and they have their character arc resolved in 30 minutes and are ignored the rest of the game because they have no actual impact to the plot or story of the game, or even a reason to still be in the party.
>Oh and a robotic cat doll that's a spy but is actually good, but still a spy
>Main revelations of the game is that Cloud is a schizophrenic, which changes nothing. And Sephiroth wasn't actually Sephiroth, which changes nothing.
Game starts with an interesting, and unique setting and plot idea of megacorp politics, underground revolutionaries, and mercenary work. Turns into "Sephiroth bad" in the span of 15 minutes. And then is 40 hours of filler content. Literally outside of the two big plot twists which as I already mentioned actually change nothing whatsoever, you could have just left Midgar and fought Sephiroth in Kalm and nothing in the story changes significantly. At most you miss out on some anime melodrama.

[Anonymous No.10111075]

>>10111045
>just happens to be a member for no reason
You think Tifa has no reason to oppose Shinra after what they did to her hometown?
>meet some random flower girl who has been stalked by the covert intelligence team for half her life but never captured despite living in total poverty and having no fighting abilities
Cloud and Elmyra talk about this. Shinra left her alone because she was important to their plans, and it's not like anyone living in Midgar slums is going anywhere. And when they decided it was time to enact those plans, they took the perfect opportunity to collect her safely in exchange for Marlene's life.
>Tifa doubling down on ignoring schizophrenia in the village
It's implied that Tifa is going along with it because she doesn't know how, or if Cloud could take it in his condition. He was in really bad shape when Tifa first found him.
I do agree that is silly how Barret immediately agrees to go after Sephiroth instead of Shinra. That's why I like the theory that Cloud is using some kind of soft brainwashing Jenova shit on the party to make them follow him to the Reunion but that isn't substantiated in-game.

[Anonymous No.10111095]

>>10110842
>I will say that FFVII deserves credit for to this day being one of the only games to kill off a proper player character
But it isn't even the first game in its series that did this.

[Anonymous No.10111115]

>>10111075
Tifa has plenty of reason to hate Shinra and Sephiroth, which is why I said she's the only party member who has any reason to actually be involved. Doesn't change that her just so happening to also be in Midgar is an ass pull. How'd she leave Nibelheim? How'd she find out about the resistance, how long did it take. They don't give a fuck about that, they'd rather give Cait Sith a monologue for a fucking DOLL being blown up.

[Anonymous No.10111126]

>>10111045
>>10111115
You didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10111141]

>>10110446
>Why didn't Shinji just...ya'know..GET IN THE FUCKING ROBOT?!
Midwittery is at play in this here thread.

[Anonymous No.10111152]

>>10111115
Even as a kid I just filled in the blanks myself on that one and I have no idea if it states it in the manual or guide which is the only info I’d take as cannon outside the game. It just seemed like she was a down on her luck bartender that fell in one w a group of eco terrorists who aligned with her hatred of the Shin.

[Anonymous No.10111168]

>>10111075
>but that isn't substantiated in-game.
It quite literally is, unbeknownst the Cloud himself. He shifts the goalpost so hard due to the J-cells warping his mental perception that there wasn't any reason NOT to believe him at that point. Remake has Tifa give subtle tells and questioning Cloud's motives early on. That's honestly one of the better additions to the story so retards (like in this thread) don't have a cow over this """plot hole""".

[Anonymous No.10111176]

>>10111152
>I have no idea if it states it in the manual or guide which is the only info I’d take as cannon outside the game.
http://www.ff7citadel.com/secrets/s_tifa.shtml

[Anonymous No.10111249]

>>10111126
I played the game twice. Once when I was 13 years old and thought it was pretty good and then again when I was 28 and spent more time laughing at how stupid everything was, but acknowledging the gameplay is still really high caliber for a jrpg, and just needed to have more difficulty.
The plot and writing are laughably bad and anyone thinks it isn't needs to either leave puberty, or expose themselves to media outside of shonen anime and video games

[Anonymous No.10111297]

>>10111045
>wait a second… after autistically over-analyzing a plot of a game from 1997 I found an inconsisterino?? let me go on an epic nostalgia critic rant about it!!!
memes aside, I think if you nitpicked every single game like this, 99.99% of them would have shit plot according to you.

[Anonymous No.10111301]

>>10111297
>this plot doesn't suck because all video game plots suck
nice reasoning brainlet

[Anonymous No.10111307]

>>10111249
>or expose themselves to media outside of shonen anime and video games
dude, I'm fine with a video game having a good plot by a video game / anime standard. I don't expect a literary classic, and if I wanted a book I'd read a book.

[Anonymous No.10111312]

>>10111297
Why are you acting like I'm nitpicking random minor inconsistencies instead of pointing out literally 95% of the game has no reason to exist and changes nothing, and that all but two characters have no plot involvement or relevance whatsoever to the point shit like >>10111168 needs to be head canoned for things to be even slightly plausible

[Anonymous No.10111313]

>>10111301
>I found some plot holes
>that means the plot is bad, let's dismiss all the good about it like the characters and so on
I said it already: if FF7 has a bad plot, name me a game with a better one. you've been avoiding this question the whole thread.

[Anonymous No.10111325]

>>10111313
i haven't been avoiding anything, retard. i already said ff4 and 6 have better plots.

[Anonymous No.10111330]

>>10111312
>Why are you acting like I'm nitpicking random minor inconsistencies
because you're doing exactly that. these don't prevent me from enjoying the game. you could as well say Indiana Jones doesn't change anything in the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark, and that means the movie is shit. you either are really pretentious and autistic if you can't enjoy it, and think that shitting on a popular game will score you internet points, or you just lost the ability to have fun after the age of 13. probably both.

[Anonymous No.10111336]

>>10111325
oh, ok. I was just unsure if that was some different retard with a hilariously dumb take who's never played anything but SNES RPGs in his life, or it was you and you were actually serious.

[Anonymous No.10111339]

>>10111307
It's not good by video game standards or even jrpg ones. Games like Lunar, or hell even games in its own direct series like FF9 or Tactics have much better writing and characters that at least stick to their personalities as it regards to the story. Barrett literally goes from "Aww hell yeahs gonna whip dat Shinra ass" to "Aww hells naw Sephiroth dun killed da Shinras" and then has absolutely no relevance to anything that happens the entire rest of the game. You could have Barret stay with Marlene and not a single thing about FF7 would change

[Anonymous No.10111343]

>>10111336
idk. i'm not the guy you've been arguing with or whatever. i just thought the greentext i replied to you with was funny.

[Anonymous No.10111354]

>>10111330
All but two characters in the game having no reason to exist is not a minor complaint lmao. What relevance does Cid have to the games story? What about Yuffie or Red? Literally nothing. Yuffies so worthless you can totally ignore her. Red has an entire character arc of "My dad was actually cool" WOW what amazing characterization.

[Anonymous No.10111542]

>>10111330
>you either are really pretentious and autistic if you can't enjoy it
He is. This is the guy who thinks the game's plot is bad because:
>Tifa "just so happened" to be in Midgar
>J-cells playing into Cloud's delusions of grandeur is "head canon"
>Cid "has no relevance" to the plot
>Thinks fucking Lunar, the most generic JRPG since sliced bread, has a better plot
He didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10111658]

>>10107872

[Anonymous No.10111956]

>>10111542
>Tifa "just so happened" to be in Midgar
Correct
>J-cells playing into Cloud's delusions of grandeur is "head canon"
It is never once stated or even implied Cloud somehow mind controlled the party to all start caring about the same thing he did. You literally made this up to make it attempt to make sense.
>Cid "has no relevance" to the plot
He does nothing the whole game. He swears a lot, builds shit and beats his wife. That's the character. Nothing past that is ever expanded upon or relevant. Just like Barrett, just like Yuffie, just like Red. The only two even slightly plot relevant characters besides Cloud and Tifa are Cait Sith and Vincent and one of them doesn't even have to join you. Every single other member of the party, even Aeris, could just be some random NPC who you help or do something with/for in their designated 30 minute section of the game. They're totally irrelevant and interchangeable for the rest of it because the games entire plot is a treadmill of nothingness, where nothing important happens or changes, and all the things they build to don't actually matter or affect anything.
>Thinks fucking Lunar, the most generic JRPG since sliced bread, has a better plot
It's horrendously generic and also well told with good characterization, which obviously would not appeal to a double digit nuckle dragger like you who gets a hard on when random nonsense bullshit continually happens for no reason and you assume its high art, because you are the human equivalent of a cat chasing a lazer pointer.

[Anonymous No.10111976]

>>10110842
AHEM
PHANTASY STAR TWO

[Anonymous No.10112005]

>>10107872
Dragon Quest V, Planet Laika, Vagrant Story

[Anonymous No.10112032]

>>10109702
>ff7 was terrible. large wholescale pieces of its scenario were lifted from stuff that was still in publication when it came out.
examples?

[Anonymous No.10112101]

>leaders of an eco terrorist organization fighting against military industrial energy conglomerate are a black handicapped man and working class barstool woman trained in MMA
>main protagonist is DID basket case GATE project
>talking cat with indigenous name is chillest character in the game

Representation with sovl

[Anonymous No.10112502]

>>10111956
You didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10112830]

>>10107872
The original draft

[Anonymous No.10112854]

Who gives a shit about the plot in Video Games? People play Games for the Gameplay

[Anonymous No.10112919]

>>10112502
Must be nice to be 10 years old and think this qualifies as an argument or rebuttal whenever anyone points out faults of things you like
>eating Macdonald's every day is terrible for you. The food is low quality, and has no nutritional value.
>"you didn't eat the food"
>You really need to stop driving that beat up 25 year old pickup. Terrible on gas, air conditioning is busted, uncomfortable seating, and leaking oil
>"you didn't drive the car"
And what's really funny is that Im not even shitting on the game as a whole. I even said it has good gameplay for a jrpg. But you're so attached to this schlock of a story that would get rejected for a superhero movie, that youre still seething, not only because I'm saying it's shit, but because you have the IQ of a walnut and happily lap up whatever dogshit is presented to you, never once taking even a second to critically analyze it as a story, or ask yourself why it's happening. So you don't even know how to defend it.

[Anonymous No.10112927]

>>10112919
Didn't ask. Don't care. Plus: You didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10112940]

I don't think I've ever played a JRPG with a great story. At best they sometimes have interesting characters. They mostly seem to follow generic cliches and try to make up for poor writing by being unnecessarily long and convoluted.

[Anonymous No.10113207]

Space Hulk, Vengeance of The Lood Angels.

[Anonymous No.10113284]

>>10112919
>Correct
Her home was destroyed. Her only outside connection (that we are made aware of) was her friend in Midgar.
>It is never once stated or even implied Cloud somehow mind controlled the party
Anon didn't say that (i think) he said the jcells played into cloud's delusions of grandeur. And the party all join for various reasons:
Barrett/tifa/cloud/aeris: don't want shinra getting to the holy land tifa and cloud have the added motivation of revenge
Red XII: only intends to stick with the party until he gets home. stays around to help save the planet.
cait sith: wants to gather info on the group to help shinra find the holy land
>He does nothing the whole game.
He is in charge of the party between when barrett/cloud fuck everything up and give sephiroth the black materia and when cloud comes back. The whole huge materia/junon cannon plot.
>It's horrendously generic and also well told with good characterization
Got nothing to say about lunar. Just liked it. Still have my lunar 2 collectors box Simple as.

[Anonymous No.10113329]

>>10107983
>>10108001
This exactly what makes him such an interesting villain. He's weird and flawed and almost human and fucks up things he shouldn't have and yet has a number of astonishing and exceptional strengths that let him actually execute his intentions.

This makes me hate compilation Sephiroth even more though.

[Anonymous No.10113337]

>>10109931
>They literally let in an enemy agent after randomly meeting him off the street

Do people not get the implication that Reeve used the manipulate materia on the party? It's clunky as a plot point, but it makes something of an excuse for the absurdity of the events.

[Anonymous No.10113594]

>>10111354
Yuffie was optional
Cid became the leader of the group after Tifa and Cloud left. he also captained the airship
Red XIII was connected to Bugenhagen at Cosmic Canyon. He was also experimented on by Hojo, one of the main antagonists, which is how he related to Cloud

[Anonymous No.10113601]

>>10110938
They infiltrate their party because they know the party is also tracking Sephiroth and they can get leads on him through them. Barrett hired Cloud because he trusts Tifa and she vouched for him, and they clearly needed him. It's almost like you didn't play this game.

[Anonymous No.10113872]

>>10113601

Tifa has zero reason to trust Cloud! She knows he's both been working for the enemy and is lying about most of the details of his life to the whole party for seemingly no reason.

You're free to like it, and it was still one of the most compelling PSX games on account of its likable characters, beautiful music, epic boss fights, and spectacular setpieces. But FFVII is objectively badly written. Anyone who isn't blinded by nostalgia can tell that no thought was put into the overall details of the plot beyond how to ratchet up the stakes of the plot and how to get to the next cool setpiece. Even a mediocre publishing house would've rejected this story and demanded rewrites had it been submitted as a novel. I doubt anyone working on it even has any idea to this day of what made the game work. It certainly isn't comparable in plot quality to what Yasumi Matsuno did for Tactics, and that game was blatantly unfinished.

[Anonymous No.10113890]

>>10113872
>Tifa has zero reason to trust Cloud! She knows he's both been working for the enemy and is lying about most of the details of his life to the whole party for seemingly no reason.
you literally didn't play the game. or at best you are an ESL zoomer that had the game playing in the background while you ate tidepods.

[Anonymous No.10113897]

>>10113337

If that's the case, why isn't anyone else use the manipulate materia for their own purposes? For that matter, why isn't Reeve using the manipulate materia on Rufus to get him to stop destroying the planet and oppressing humanity? Or for that matter, why isn't Rufus running the espionage mission on Avalanche himself? Why is he trusting the one guy in the company who seems to display a conscience?

[Anonymous No.10113927]

>>10113872
tifa is in love with cloud bro

[Anonymous No.10113931]

>>10113890

You being a retard isn't my fault. Nothing I've said about the game's numerous instances of poor plotting has been close to disproven. Nor has anyone else's. No criminal organization in real life, not even the juggalos, would think of recruiting anybody with so much as half the red flags shown by Cloud. They'd either ghost him, or lead him to an empty house and pump two bullets in the back of his head if he doesn't have the decency to fuck off.

This isn't even getting into the fact that the moment a new and more dangerous enemy shows up, he reveals he used to be a comrade of said enemy, and that for some reason he can't remember why he managed to survive a standoff with a guy he himself admitted can kill a dragon with one swing of his sword. In real life, anybody he told that story to would've thought he was lying, and was either a paranoid schizophrenic, or an agent of Sephiroth's. They sure as fuck wouldn't have agreed to trust him, no matter how much his hot, busty childhood friend wanted a dicking.

This is not a minor nitpick. None of this bares any resemblance to normal human behavior. Anybody with real-life experience who isn't nostalgia blind would poke holes into this trainwreck of a narrative.

[Anonymous No.10113943]

>>10113927

I like her and Cloud's love for each other! They're a great couple. One of my favorites in videogames. But that doesn't make the plot any better.

If the characters acted remotely like real people, Cloud would not have been recruited into Avalanche. The fact that they just let him into the group before he's even told them anything about his life, when they know he's been working for the enemy, is so utterly removed from the way any criminal, terrorist, military, security, espionage, or violence organization that has ever existed would act that no mentally mature adult could possibly take this story seriously on its own merits, and there's many, many more stupid things that happen later in the game which only compound the stupidity of this initial folly.

[Anonymous No.10113974]

>>10113284
I don't really care about the Tifa being in Midgar situation. It's an ass pull that your childhood friend just happened to run the bar that the eco terrorist group that hired you has a secret base in, but it's not egregiously bad, especially for a jrpg.
>he said the jcells played into cloud's delusions of grandeur.
Cloud doesn't even have delusions of grandeur. He's one of the only people in the game who has a reason to care about Sephiroth and think he's evil. The entire Zack and fake soldier plotline is the only thing he's delusional about, and that plotline is completely worthless. Nothing about the games story would change if he actually was in soldier, or if he was simply a grunt and never a schizo, and simply got Mako fried like other people did. The entire plot point is just there so they could have a M Night Shyamalan TWWEEST, and so Cloud could have his token jrpg with the power of love and friendship I will overcome segment.
This is my point, the story of FF7 is just there to do crazy shit. It doesn't tie together, it doesn't make sense, the characters aren't given motivations or personalities, and none of it has an actual affect on anything. It's actually one of the most bland and boring stories of all time. The entire story is Cloud wanting to prove he's better than Sephiroth and overcome his idol, who is now evil. And there's 40 hours of filler content to mask that. That's why I said you could have the Kalm scene to establish that Sephiroth is evil, and then immediately fight him after that, and nothing about the game would significantly change. All of the schizo shit, the jenova clones, the cetra, none of it actually means or changes anything. The game has a cool plot and ideas and a structure for the first 5 hours of the game, then completely abandons them all

[Anonymous No.10114335]

>>10113931
>the game's numerous instances of poor plotting has been close to disproven.
>numerous
Barring how Tifa made it to Midgar, which you've purposely ignored >>10111176 there's nothing to disprove.
You simply didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10114356]

>>10113974
>Nothing about the games story would change if he actually was in soldier
Oh you're THAT retard.
Well, now the rest of the thread can safely disregard anything you say after that, because all you do when you make that argument is showing you blatantly ignore story context and magically think it'd magically remain the same. You're stubborn, autistic hate-boner for this game's got your panties in such a twist you've contradicted yourself several times in your post. You need a nickname at this point. Anyone got ideas for names?

[Anonymous No.10114453]

>>10114335

I played it twice, you fucking weeb. It's loaded with dumb plot points:

>Why does Avalanche conduct zero op-sec on its members?
>Why does Tifa continue to trust Cloud when she knows he's either delusional or deliberately lying about his past from the moment he tells the story of the Nibelheim Incident?
>Why does Tifa not tell anybody she knows Cloud is lying? Is she just totally unconcerned of the very real possibility he's an enemy agent? (Which, spoiler alert, HE FUCKING IS.)
>Why does Barrett care about stopping Sephiroth when Sephiroth killed the guy who murdered almost every one of his friends and family? Shouldn't he be a huge Sephiroth fan for that alone? Why does he suddenly trust Cloud when blondie openly told him he doesn't care about the cause and is only doing this for money?
>Why has Shinra not captured Aeris during the many years she's lived in poverty, working as an implied prostitute, with no security whatsoever aside from her stepmother, and even while spending time dating a member of their special forces, in the middle of Shinra's own city?

The answer: no fucking reason whatever! Kitase and Co. were just bad writers, working under harsh conditions and little sleep, who cared more about getting to the next cool setpiece than having their worldbuilding and character behavior make any sense. Bless them anyway for making something that tried all the same and which touched so many hearts, but that doesn't make their writing any less bad.

[Anonymous No.10114492]

>>10114356

We don't hate the game, OP, you fucking sperg. We're just not in middle school anymore, have sampled many more thoughtful works, and just plain have both enough life experience and knowledge of the way the real world works to where the crappy writing no longer escapes our notice.

FFT, released the same year and in the same series, even in its blatantly unfinished state, has so much better writing it's not even a contest. Especially after the PSP port fixed the infamously crappy original translation. That's how easy it would've been to do better. It's just better wasn't done.

[Anonymous No.10114504]

>>10114453
>>10114492
You didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10114519]

>>10114356
>Oh you're THAT retard.
I remember that thread.
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/9329846/#q9331075
>1 year ago
Dude's got a grudge.

[Anonymous No.10114542]

Fuck, you remember how in season one of The Wire one of the low-level gangsters is heartlessly executed by his own friends just cause they think he's an informant and have reasonable suspicion? Even though we as the audience know for sure they're wrong? And these are just hoodrats selling drugs! Actual terrorists organizations are even more paranoid and violent!

That's how far behind in narrative quality FFVII is to the highest-level work of other mediums. Even a random C-plot from a classic TV show is a thousand times more thoughtful and realistic than the behavior of any of the main characters in FFVII.

[Anonymous No.10114545]

>>10114519
Funny he says FF7's characters and plot is "bland" when he wants something just as shounen-tier blandness as Cloud succeeding in becoming 1st Class and stop his almighty evil rival in a revenge plot and that's ignoring all the subtext to Cloud's entire character and one of the many themes in the game: Denial
This is what deconstructing of the typical formula in media does to a mother fucker that I'd be surprised to hear what he has to say about Eva and Xenogears.

[Anonymous No.10114551]

>>10114542
t.

[Anonymous No.10114564]

>>10114551
Apt comparison, KEK

[Anonymous No.10114575]

>>10114545

I never said it was bland, you sperg! That was somebody else!

I'd never call it bland. The fact that I still remember so much about the game despite not having played it since I had a PS2 means it's clearly not. It's just, objectively, dumb and unrealistic. If your standards come exclusively from videogames and shounen anime; and zero from books, film, TV, theater, or heaven forbid, history and real life; then I can maybe see why you might think this is a high-quality story. But even on 4chan, most of us aren't terminally autistic to the degree of the likes of you. We have seen much better, even just within retro games like FFT and Majora's Mask, let alone non-vidya/anime sources.

[Anonymous No.10114621]

>>10114564

We're purposely avoiding being too Comic Book Guy-ey. Not that FFVII has a shortage of that. The crappy translation alone could give him enough material to last through the heat-death of the universe, like how the game purposely tricks the players into eating the counterattack of the first boss because the localization team was like one fucking guy who clearly didn't check anything beyond the first draft, to the point where even reordering two fucking sentences in the intro level was beyond his ability thanks to the rushed deadline and the crappy file structure.

And just think: the Spanish and French versions are even worse!

[Anonymous No.10114636]

>>10114542
Holy fuck, this retard gets everything wrong about tv shows too. You haven’t seen The Wire.

[Anonymous No.10114647]

>>10111115
Her master Zangan sent here to Midger to find a competent doctor who can heal here from the injuries she suffered in the Nibel reactor. Play the game again and read every text.

[Anonymous No.10114653]

Sorry for typos

[Anonymous No.10114657]

>>10114621
>tfw French version of ff7 exists
>they probably call the heroes claude, tifA (stress on the last syllable) and barrEt
>with sephirotte doing hon hon hon laugh

[Anonymous No.10114661]

>>10114647

Her master thought it was a good idea to place one of the only living witnesses to one of the worst crimes Shinra was ever responsible for right into the heart of enemy territory? Undisguised? With her own fucking name and everything? Not even so much as a haircut?

What an asshole. No wonder he thought nothing of abandoning her and never returning.

[Anonymous No.10114689]

>>10114636

For those who haven't seen The Wire.

Name one inaccuracy in my summation of the Wallace plotline?

[Anonymous No.10114692]

>>10114356
What are you even talking about schizo? All you've done this whole thread is say people don't play the game, and now think everyone is the same person. Do you want to know why people constantly say the same things about this games stupid ass story? Because it's badly written. What about the plot of the game changes if Cloud is in Soldier? What changes if he never has his dumb schizo alternate personality and just wants revenge? Literally nothing. It's a plot point for no reason just like Yamcha or Krillen dying every Dragonball saga.
Stop being a child and actually back up your own thoughts and opinions.

[Anonymous No.10114706]

>>10114657

The French version used the English version as a source. So all the errors in the English version were copied into the French version, on top of adding a whole bunch of new errors compliments of a rushed dev time, the crappy file system, and the translator either being incompetent or just not giving a shit.

Presumably, something similar happened with the Spanish version, because it's supposed to be almost as bad as the French.

[Anonymous No.10114720]

>>10107872
Oddworld, no question. It's still the best in the current day and age.

[Anonymous No.10114721]

obviously it either goes to legacy of kain or metal gear solid as a series since they were the proto-movie games.
personally for me its legacy of kain tho.

[Anonymous No.10114736]

>>10114453
Niggers like you scream and whine about plot holes where it's convenient to you because you can fathom that people in stories don't always act optimally or how you would. Plenty of other reasons to criticize a story, especially video game stories, like pacing, poor translation, dislougue being too monologue heavy rather than real conversations, obfuscating important information in mysterious dialougue to keep the mystique going, etc. As someone playing through Ffvii for the first time now, I think all of those are valid criticisms.

But plot holes, especially the ones that aren't contradictions and are the "UGH THE GAME DIDN'T EXPLAIN IT TO ME!!!" variants are such a gay, joyless critique that can be found in any story with the right amount of autism. Opinion disregarded.

[Anonymous No.10114749]

Riven is the GOAT
It's amazing how everything in Riven build the setting, look cohesive, tell a story and teach you something to use later without you even realizing.
And the story is far more complex than it looks like at first.

[Anonymous No.10114750]

This is also a relatively minor gripe, but there's no reason for Shinra to be a corporation instead of a government. They do that shit in dystopian sci-fi and cyberpunk out of militant, childish anti-capitalism and a desire to avoid offending anybody via attacking an IRL nation state. A fictional planet consisting of fictional nations removes any necessity for these concerns, aside from the militant anti-capitalism, which is down right anemically underdeveloped, and clearly not anything sincerely believed or thought about by the devs. It's just something they cribbed from other, better sources.

[Anonymous No.10114797]

>>10114736

Griping about minor plot points isn't the same as pointing out the major ones. It's the difference between complaining about the barnacles on the hull versus a structural breach. It's the reason Quentin Tarantino and James Gunn are beloved, while hacks like Alex Kurtzman and Rian Johnson are reviled.

[Anonymous No.10114805]

>>10114689
I see at least 4.
1. The Barksdale crew (Stringer in particular) was unusually cautious, meticulous, and ruthless compared to other street gangs. This is stated repeatedly throughout season 1, and reinforced in season 2 when Herc investigates another gang that doesn’t use any basic security protocols. (This completely undermines the point you were trying to make, btw)
2. Wallace’s friends didn’t believe that he was really snitching: that order came down from Stringer (who, again, was especially ruthless and paranoid even for a drug dealer). Bodie carried out the hit anyway because he wanted to prove how hard he was to his boss & advance his career.
3. Stringer wasn’t wrong, even though he had little evidence to go on. Wallace really was snitching, and the audience knows it. (Seriously, how the fuck do you watch the show and not know this? Wallace was a key witness in the case against Stringer, who walked free at the end of season 1 as a result of the hit. This is emphasized and restated repeatedly throughout both of the first 2 seasons).
4. This was not a “random C-plot” at all. Wallace’s execution was a pivotal moment in the season that caused a permanent rift between D’Angelo and Avon (and consequently, Avon and Stringer after the hit on D in season 2).

So yeah, in only a few short sentences you’ve managed to demonstrate that you didn’t understand The Wire at all. Needless to say, everything you’ve said about FF7 in this thread has been likewise completely wrong.

[Anonymous No.10114807]

>>10114453
>>Why does Tifa continue to trust Cloud when she knows he's either delusional or deliberately lying about his past from the moment he tells the story of the Nibelheim Incident?
>>Why does Tifa not tell anybody she knows Cloud is lying? Is she just totally unconcerned of the very real possibility he's an enemy agent? (Which, spoiler alert, HE FUCKING IS.)
you literally didn't play the game.
Tifa has low self confidence and is willing to doubt her own recollection of events and give Cloud the benefit of the doubt, and at the same time she wants Cloud to be her hero and is willing to give him a chance. She also knows he's suffering and doesn't want to make things worse or drive Cloud away by opening old wounds. So she keeps her mouth shut like a good girl and just watches until Cloud can figure it out for himself.
If you played more than 5 hours of the game you would have known this.

[Anonymous No.10114823]

>>10114542
>Comparing a high level crime syndicate with years of experience
>...to a rag-tag group of terrorists that consist of 5 to 6 members in their 20s, who are all but professional, treat their mission like it's some outing amongst friends
Not only are you autistic, but clinically retarded.
You didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10114857]

>>10114807
Anon he's been through this song and dance before. He just doubles down everytime you correct his faulty, autistic logic to then nitpick at another, like with the Tifa example, because any media who's characters have flaws who suffer consequences for their actions is "not relatable" and is instead a "plot hole/shit".
>"Herp Tifa just RANDOMLY showed up in Midgar derp."
>There's a letter from Zangan detailing he took her there and why
>"Herp why would he take her to a crime ridden place such as that derp?"
>Has the most technological advancements of any city in any part of the world, desperate times call for desperate measures
>"B-But--"
He's the literally Cinema Sins of vidya.

[Anonymous No.10114890]

>>10114857
I actually like the retard. His failed attempts to deconstruct FF7’s story actually reveal just how solid the story really is. For every objection the retard comes up with, there are 2-3 answers in the actual game text for anyone who cares enough to look. These threads have given me a renewed appreciation for FF7, and for Sakaguchi as a storyteller.

[Anonymous No.10115021]

>>10114823

The gangsters I was referring to weren't high level. They were literal teenage project niggers, working at the bottom level of their organization, selling redtops to street junkies and homeless people. They were the Barksdale Org's equivalent of the faceless, three-eyed goons you mow down by the hundreds in your playthrough, and they were still significantly smarter than anybody in Avalanche or Shinra.

[Anonymous No.10115038]

>>10114857

It's not one guy. And only retards like you give writers credit for coming up with a plot explanation that just makes the character's decision seem even dumber. They literally would've had a better story just not explaining why Tifa went to Midgar, as opposed to making her master a complete retard who somehow doesn't know anywhere else in the entire world that has top-level doctors, nor someone who can even bother to give his helpless student anything resembling a disguise when he abandons her in the heart of enemy territory.

[Anonymous No.10115147]

>>10114805

1. The Barksdale Org were unusually cautious, but their behavior towards Wallace wasn't at all unusual for members of a criminal syndicate. Any other criminal organization would've assumed Wallace was a rat, and would've at minimum shunned him, or killed him depending on the risks of him testifying. And the Euro criminals were still very good at security, just not as good as the Barksdales. Hence why their caps remain free men at the end of the series, and also murder one of their top associates the moment they think he might rat.
2. Yet Barrett, who doesn't trust Cloud, and has zero reason to let him in, trusts Tifa more than he trusts basic security protocol? Fuck, she's not even sleeping with Bartett. Why the fuck is he trusting her over common sense and basic op-sec?
3. Wallace gave up switching when the case moved too slow and he missed the street life. He wasn't going back to spy ob the Barksdale Org. They killed him anyway because the first thing actual criminals think when someone pulls a Wallace is that he's a rat.
4. I liked Wallace, but the A-plot of S1 was the police spying on the gangsters, and the B-plot was the fate of the top-level gangsters. That said, if you don't like classifying The Wire by tiering the importance of each plot, I don't blame you for that, as it really does a great job of making you feel like there's no true main character.

However, the fact that you've clearly seen The Wire, and yet still think Final Fantasy VII has anything that could be called a good plot is honestly even more baffling than if you were a weeb that consumed nothing but shounen anime and JRPGs. You already know how much better actual good plots are. Why are you wasting your time defending such an inferior story to the many people who aren't afraid to admit said story's trash?

[Anonymous No.10115348]

>>10115147
You fucked up the plot again in the spoiler text! This is unbelievable! Can you go one sentence without fucking up major details of a story in a way that completely undermines your arguments?
The Greeks did not kill Sobotka “the moment they thought he might rat”, on the contrary they were planning to co-operate with him to buy his loyalty. The only reason they didn’t is because of their informant in the FBI
telling them at the last second that Sobotka was already talking to the police. Murder was undertaken as a last resort, not on first suspicion.
The rest of this post is just doubling down as usual on wrong details, distorted facts and gross misinterpretations. Whatever, I’m not here to get in a conversation. I just thought it was hilarious that you’ve been fucking up & distorting the plot of The Wire as badly as you have with FF7, and thought I’d point it out for other anons who don’t know the series. For the record, I’m not implying that FF7 is as deep or tightly written as The Wire, I’m just pointing out that you’re too retarded to have anything valid to say about either.

[Anonymous No.10115467]

>>10114857
I like that you've called at least 3 different people the same person, and dug up some 8 month old thread that apparently still makes you seeth daily meaning 4 different people. Anyone who calls out the plot of FF7 for being shit, and showcasing the problems with it is apparently the same person. You also can't actually debate any of the points or substantiate any reason as to anything thats good about the games, you just call everyone retarded, and tell them they've never played the game. But you're certainly not autistic.

[Anonymous No.10115496]

>>10107918
its not your fault jap translation was not great

[Anonymous No.10115526]

>>10115038
>>10115467
>Same willfully ignorant deflection
>Uses the same retarded talking points word for word
>"I-It's not me -- I swear!"
Pathetic. You didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10115550]

>>10114807
Notice how retard-kun spent more time defending his autistic image while ignoring your statement that contradicts his points. Dude cares more about his ego than arguing in good faith.

[Anonymous No.10115564]

>>10115526
>Uses the same retarded talking points word for word
I literally said Tifa is the only character in the game besides Cloud who has any relevance, and now I'm also apparently the same guy saying she's the worst character lmao. You are completely brain damaged

[Anonymous No.10115569]

>>10115564
>You are completely brain damaged
But enough about you...
Maybe you should play the game you clearly didn't play.

[Anonymous No.10115579]

>>10115564
>lmao.
How Zoomers end a sentence when they're upset.
>lol I'm signaling I'm above you in this argument I'm "clearly mad" about lmao even!

[Anonymous No.10116273]

>>10111339
>Barrett literally goes from "Aww hell yeahs gonna whip dat Shinra ass" to "Aww hells naw Sephiroth dun killed da Shinras"
>then has absolutely no relevance to anything that happens the entire rest of the game
Either you have a selective memory or your game disk was scratched and skipped a couple chapters.

[Anonymous No.10116416]

i wouldn't say ff7 is the best but it's very compelling and i enjoyed it a lot, english translation and all

[Anonymous No.10116560]

>>10107872
I'd say either Xenogears or Suikoden5.

[Anonymous No.10116578]

>>10107872
FF7 unironically, I think the whole Shinra corp concept just continues to imitate real life.
And
Kotor II off the top of my head, not retro but kreia's dialogues will forever be with me.

[Anonymous No.10116582]

>>10116578
I shouldve screenshot it but clicked too quick. my captcha was legit VRTARD :P

[Anonymous No.10116675]

>>10116273

The Dyne chapter has no broader plot importance. All it does is reveal that Barrett wasn't actually Marlete's biological father, which is the least surprising twist in Square RPGs since the revelation that Mallow was not, in fact, a tadpole.

It makes no sense for Barrett to think Sephiroth is a bad guy. Seph murdered the guy who murdered most of Barrett's friends and family. He should be leaving the party to join up with the guy.

[Anonymous No.10116703]

>>10115348

Sobotka wasn't going to rat. His son was in jail for murdering the Euros' fence. He was going to reneg on his agreement to the cops to save Nicki. But the Euros didn't trust him enough , so they killed him anyway.

Also, Frank wasn't a replaceable grunt like Wallace or start-of-the-game Cloud. He was an extremely valuable smuggling asset who'd been working with the Euros for what must've been years. But if he'd been, say, an FBI agent before becoming a union treasury secretary, the Euros would not have recruited him to their operation. They would've assumed he was a spy. And they assume this not because of any kind of supergenius or training, but just by virtue of not being Hollywood Zombies.

https://yudkowsky.tumblr.com/writing/level1intelligent

Barrett, if he had acted like a normal human rather than a Hollywood Zombie, would never have recruited a guy with anywhere near as many red flags as Cloud into his terrorist group. Tifa vouchung for him wouldn't be enough if Tifa had sucked his dick first. It wouldn't be enough if Cloud sucked his dick first. Not unless Barrett was supposed to be both selfish and an idiot. But he's not. He's working from entirely selfless motives, and never takes any opportunity to use his enterprise for self enrichment. He lets Cloud in the group despite all the red flags he's an enemy agent because of bad writing.

And Cloud is an enemy agent! Albeit an agent of an even worse enemy than Shinra, but the red flags were even more prominent with that than they were with Shinra.

[Anonymous No.10116716]

>>10113337
>mental gymnastics to make it ever so slightly more sensible
I applaud the effort

[Anonymous No.10116719]

>>10114807

Tifa's fighting for her life against an extremely dangerous foe who murdered every one of her friends and family aside from Cloud and her shithead master.

Cloud, as far as she knows by this point in the story, abandoned her as a child to join up with the special forces of the same people responsible for said massacre, and is only working with her for money, and possibly to get his dick wet. Then post-Midgar, he somehow is able to recount a detailed story of the events of the massacre despite her knowing for sure he's lying, because she never saw him there. That isn't her being unsure of her own memories. Anyone else who'd been through the murder of their own family would be horrified if some guy they hadn't seen for over a decade was able to recount the events of it in detail despite not being there. Especially if said person was a childhood crush.

But Tifa, again, is not a normal person. She's a Hollywood Zombie. She exists to make bad decisions so the writers can milk drama. She has no inner spark that possesses any interest in making her own life go well. It's your own business if you still enjoy works with characters like these, but grown-ups, those of us who aren't nostalgia-blind autists, want something more. We want characters who, bare minimum, aren't Hollywood Zombies.

[Anonymous No.10117140]

>>10116719
>adults want characters who aren't zombies
>adults want characters
i know you're a shut in faggot because you have some imaginary obsession with a female character not being realistic. do you think it's somehow common for people to not be self destructive or make stupid decisions? lmao ff7 plot is whatever and the story is trash, but all the shit you're saying about tifa just make her sound more and more like a real woman.

[Anonymous No.10117160]

>>10116703
>human beings act with logical consistency
lmfao you are so oblivious to reality. people are fucken dumb bro. they do dumb shit out of habit, and live mostly mindless lives directed by whim and biological urge.

this is by far the most autistic and pathetic attempt i've seen to shit on ff7 (which i think has a shit story).

>the writers didn't do what makes sense to me

news flash autistic faggot: what you think makes sense is totally divorced from reality. people are stupid and shitty and make bad decisions every second of every day, if they even make decisions at all.

[Anonymous No.10117202]

>>10117140

There's a difference between self-destructive behavior as engaged by actual humans and Tifa's behavior in FFVII. Anybody who'd had all their friends and family murdered before their eyes, and who had someone who, as far as they knew, wasn't there, recount in detail the events as if they were, would be horrified by said person, and would either run as far the fuck away from said person as possible, or, if it were in their power, would violently confront said persin about their lies, and even kidnap and torture them for the truth if that's what it took. All the more so if said person was a childhood crush.

You are a massive autist who is incapable of accepting that your favorite game when you were nine was poorly written.

[Anonymous No.10117206]

>>10116719
not being able to empathize with or understand others' thought process is a strong indicator of autism. thanks for confirming with us.

[Anonymous No.10117213]

>>10117202
>there's a difference between what people would do in my head versus what this video game character did
lmfao you are so lost, autist. definitely not my favorite game when i was 9 (that'd be megaman 3), and ff7 has a shitty story. both of these facts don't change the reality that you're stuck up your own ass sniffing farts of delusion.

[Anonymous No.10117258]

>>10117160

They didn't do what makes sense to anyone! Literally no human is dumb enough to not be horrified that someone who, ostensibly, wasn't there on the day all their friends and family were murdered before their eyes can somehow recall all the events of said atrocity in detail. No amount of stupidity nor horniness could possibly surmount such a blatant danger signal, least of all when it becomes obvious that the foe you're up against has the power to change his shape and physical appearance.

If Tifa were the main character of the game instead of Cloud, pretty much everybody would think that Cloud was the party traitor, would immediately suspect him of being the one who actually murdered Aeris, would show no surprise that it turns out he was working for Sephiroth the while time, and would throw their controller at the screen when it was revealed that, no, he wasn't actually evil this whole time. It's absolutely childish, protagonist-centric morality, that vividly demonstrates just how little thought was put into adding this twist.

[Anonymous No.10117269]

>>10117213

No. Not one human being acts like a Hollywood Zombie. Not even the very most retarded members of our species. They exist solely for the service of hack writers, like Rian Johnson and the hacks who write for Square.

[Anonymous No.10117280]

>>10117258
>literally no human is dumb enough
that's where you're wrong, kiddo, and the recorded history of man is full of examples of dumb people believing dumb stuff. lmao you probably got the covid vaccine and are trying to make this argument.

[Anonymous No.10117290]

>>10117269
yeah, they do. people act like shitty 'hollywood zombies' every single day. you do, too. look at how you're acting right now lmfao. imagine if your life was a jrpg. some kind would be on /vr/ right now talkinga bout what a shitty character you are.
>literally no human is dumb enough to argue about a 23 year old children's game's shitty story by comparing it to hypothetical alternatives
hahahah you are a living example of the thing you say people aren't.

[Anonymous No.10117313]

>>10116273
The Golden Saucer segment has zero affect on anything in the game. It's just filler thrown into the game to disguise how boring and mundane the actual plot is like everything else past Midgar. Dyne adds nothing to the plot of the game, and nothing changes if he doesn't exist. He's just there so Barret can have some totally irrelevant character arc because the game has no actual plot beyond Cloud surpassing Sephiroth. So to justify the 40 hours in between Midgar when the game actually has a plot, and fighting Sephiroth you get a bunch of dumb worthless bullshit that impacts nothing whatsoever.
The game wasn't written with any type of overarching or interconnected storytelling, just a bunch of random shit that happens and is then totally ignored.

[Anonymous No.10118525]

>>10117290

You being too retarded to read isn't my fault.

And your aware most of us are on your side about the game being poorly written, right? Why are you antagonizing us?

[Anonymous No.10118543]

>>10107918
He wanted to be unbirthed back to Jenova in the planet's core

[Anonymous No.10118582]

>>10118525
idgaf about the game being poorly written argument. you're just an annoying faggot.

[Anonymous No.10118645]

>>10113329
>This makes me hate compilation Sephiroth even more though.
Crisis Core does make him seem more human, though. It at least gives a look at Sephiroth that makes more sense of why he snapped.

[Anonymous No.10119262]

>>10116675
>>10117313
Totally not the same person btw.

[Anonymous No.10119286]

>>10117313
>He's just there so Barret can have some totally irrelevant character arc
I'm starting to believe you're being ironically ignorant about the game's story in order to get attention just so people can engage with you. How depressing.

[Anonymous No.10119585]

>>10119286
No this is genuinely how he behaves.
Going by the last thread I interacted with him in, he thinks people take more offense to his scathing critique of the game as if he were insulting it and not his obnoxiously crude behavior -- he's THAT far up his ass with his ego, which is typical of people on the autistic spectrum.
He refuses to see through other perspectives in these discussions and there's no getting through to him, so don't bother wasting your time entertaining his grievances that amount to appeals to popularity.

[Anonymous No.10119854]

>>10118582

If you don't give a fuck, why are you posting in a thread about retro-game plots that uses this game in the pic header?

Rhetorical question! It's because you're the OP and you don't like how people keep pointing out one of your autistic childhood obsessions is poorly written, even by the standards of retro games, and even by the standards of retro games in its genre!

[Anonymous No.10119860]

>>10119854
OP here. I only made a few replies at the start, then I got tired of your autistic cringe rantings. Please stop ruining my thread with your sperging

[Anonymous No.10119864]

>>10108056
My favorite FF game ever,, and the plot is just as much of a reason as the gameplay .

[Anonymous No.10119885]

>>10107918

Best I could tell, he wanted to absorb the planet's energy by engineering an apocalyptic meteor strike, because this would bring up a whole bunch of the lifestream to the surface. Why the fuvk he needs to do this, given that he already lives in the center of the earth and seems to be doing just fine there, I can't say. But it's a relatively minor gripe, and maybe a better translation legit would've clarified the motivation.

That said, there's still no reason for Barrett or even Red XIII to follow Cloud and Tifa on their quest to kill Sephiroth, given that nobody learns of his plan to cause the apocalypse until much further into the first disc. Aside from the fact that such a quest is extremely dangerous, their first exposure to Sephiroth is him killing the man most responsible for their life's misfortunes. Yet this extremely suspicious ex-enemy-special-forces -- as far as they know -- spiky-haired pretty boy, is somehow just able to get everybody to go along on his hugely dangerous personal vendetta without anything to back up it's necessity to them personally aside from Tifa, whom he just hugely alienated with a story she knows for sure is a lie, but for some reason isn't telling anybody else.

Aeris might still've followed him, given both her crush on Cloud and her desire to find a lead on her presumed-dead ex-boyfriend, but what would've made a more thoughtful plot is to have Red and Barrett originally plan on just fleeing to Cosmo Canyon, and then agreeing to go on the quest to kill Sephiroth after finding out he plans to cause the apocalypse. But that would require a level of thoughtfulness you almost never see from Square.

[Anonymous No.10119893]

>>10114750
What's the difference between a corporation and a government that is not democratic?

[Anonymous No.10119908]

>>10119885
Shinra is still around in the form of Rufus. They know Rufus wants to follow Sephiroth to get to the promised land. If Shinra gets to the promised land they believe Shinra will destroy the planet by harvesting all of the Mako in the promised land. This is explicitly laid out in the game. it's not even subtext. They literally tell you the characters motivations.

[Anonymous No.10119938]

>>10119893

Not even the very worst corporation has ever been as powerful nor rapacious as most of the governments that have existed throughout history. Hence why even the very worst of businessmen, rather than just have their company take over the world, decide to dive into politics themselves, and then use their political power for personal enrichment.

There's no reason not to make Shinra the sole legal political party in Midgar, and to make President Shinra the General Secretary of the Shinra Party. Especially since they already act way more like a government than a corporation.

[Anonymous No.10119945]

>>10119908

Why bother? If you're Barrett and Red XIII, why not just say "fuck it" to the whole "find Sephiroth" business and just focus on killing Rufus? How does following Sephiroth help them there? They won't know he's the greater threat until much later in the game!

[Anonymous No.10120313]

>>10119854
i said idgaf about the argument. i like various conversations. i'm specifically replying to you because you're a faggot and i like to tell faggots on the internet that they're faggots, faggot.

[Anonymous No.10120318]

>>10107872
shin megami tensei

[Anonymous No.10120406]

>>10119262
Meds
>>10119286
Is this the part where you pretend any of these random character arcs like Red or Barret have any impact on the games overall story? They're completely and totally disconnected from it in anyway, because the characters themselves are worthless to the plot of the game, because the plot of the game is entirely about a single character overcoming his evil idol, and all but one other character in the game is just there because jrpgs need a token cast.
The only only thing you might be talking about is that the Dyne shit is plot related because the party gets put into the prison and therefore this is now important, when thats backwards justification which is a mark of terrible amterurish writing. The party doesn't nees to be thrown in prison, it doesn't progress or add anything to the plot, they just are so we can get some dumb Barrett backstory that is totally inconsequential to anything else in the game.
Someone brought Lunar up earlier in the thread, let's compare a character like Jean to the cast of FF7. Jean is a dancer in a traveling carnival, she joins the party during a monster attack on her friends. To defeat some of the monsters she uses some martial arts moves, and this makes her very upset, as she learned the moves while a child who was indoctrinated in a cult that stole children and taught them to kill. During the course of the game, you fight members of the cult, and then later find out the leader of the cult is one of the dragon keepers you need to eliminate, and Jean embraces her martial arts abilites as something that can stop him from doing evil, rather than just something to cause it.
This is how you actually do a character arc. The character grows while the events related to them also expand upon and are related to the story itself.
You don't have a bunch of random 30 minute segments that operate as a filler side story unconnected to everything else in the entire game.

[Anonymous No.10120413]

>>10119885
>and maybe a better translation legit would've clarified the motivation.
You didn't play the game, ESL.

[Anonymous No.10120417]

>>10120406
>Same long-winded autistic rambling
>Totally isn't switching IPs
Just stop. You didn't play the game.

[Anonymous No.10120638]

>>10120406
You have this autistic hangup more for character's relevance to Cloud's story than understanding how the world/story effects the characters who live in it.
That already signals to me your liner way of thinking like the brainlet you are and why you enjoy cliche games like Lunar. You're just an contrarian upset you didn't get a straightforward, DQ-tier tale about "Good vs. Evil" to save the world from an evil wizard and dog on 7 for it's more complex story telling for being "bad" because you couldn't piece it's together and because a lot of people liking it.

It's also amazing you think someone like Barret serves no purpose in the story when he's one of the main characters who helps pull Cloud back together after what happened at the Temple. You wax on about your self-proclaimed understanding of narrative complexity for watching shit like The Wire of all things, when I guarantee something like The Congress or even Le Passé (2013) would fly right over your fucking head even after a second watch. Thinking of it now, you're the type who prefers Outlaw Star over Cowboy Bebop because the former's episodic nature's easier to understand.

[Anonymous No.10120981]

>>10120638

We're different people, retard. I know for a fact I'm a different anon from the one you're arguing with right now. It's just very obvious there's only one of you defending FFVII's crappy writing this vociferously, because you're very dumb, and incapable of thoughtfulness or analysis.

Also, FFVII's story isn't remotely ambiguous. Avalanche are the good guys; Shinra and Sephiroth are the bad guys, and there's zero nuance to their badness. If Shinra and Sephiroth aren't both stopped, the world will be destroyed. Their respective motives for destroying the world are entirely selfish and unsympathetic:

>Shinra's execs are harvesting the life energy of the planet and the souls of the dead despite knowing full well it will ultimately destroy the planet, presumably because they figure they'll be dead by then. For some reason, they also don't care about destroying the afterlife, despite knowing for sure it exists. But this is never explored in game. And none of the Shinra execs, not even Reeve, ever attempt to justify their behavior. They rule entirely by lies, fear, and terror.

>Sephiroth, post heel turn, is attempting to eradicate all life on earth just to harvest their life energy for himself. He's doing it just because he can, and because of his personal grievance at existing. The only difference between him and the Shinra execs is Sephy's plan will destroy the world even faster.

Yeah, Avalanche kills a lot of people to stop their foes, but this happens in every RPG. Their violent tactics never come back to haunt them, either via internal conflic, or via any aggrieved party taking action against them for the wrongs they've committed on their journey.

[Anonymous No.10121030]

>>10120981

Also, ever notice how when Square retconned the reactor explosion into primarily being the work of President Shinra in the remake, and that none of the complaints -- which are few in number to begin with -- of them doing this bring up how it negatively affects future events of the plot? Because it doesn't! President Shinra being the one to actually kill all those civilians and blaming it on Avalanche changes nothing about the game! Nobody in the original held any vendetta against Avalanche for their murder of civilians, nor any of their other terroristic activities.

Even the Shinra execs are only mad at the group for trying to stop their planet-killing energy harvest. Not for any of the tactics they use, seeing as how even in the original game, Shinra already had no qualms about murdering what must've been at least several hundred thousand people and destroying an eighth of their own city and blaming it on Avalanche as a false-flag op. Even Yeltsin and Putin only killed a few hundred Russian slumdwellers in his false flag to start his war on Chechnya.

Also, some false flag op! Avalanche faces zero consequences for being branded the worst mass-murdering terrorists to ever live. They travel the planet no more molested than they would've been had they not been framed for the massacre. I guess not even the FFVII NPCs are stupid enough to believe it wasn't the work of Shinra, but it doesn't affect anything else either, because no one shows any concern that their corporate dictators just murdered an eighth of the population of Midgar to kill a terrorist cell consisting of half a dozen people. Anything even close to that bad happening in real life causes a refugee crisis, but the Square writers are hacks who don't understand human behavior, so a terrorist attack orders of magnitude worse than 9/11 is utterly glossed over.

[Anonymous No.10121083]

>>10120638
>You have this autistic hangup more for character's relevance to Cloud's story
Yes, because thats what the game is, its Cloud's story. All the other characters are worthless. There are no actual plot details, there are no overarching politics, or intrigue. There is no world building. Its a story entirely about Cloud. Which would be fine if this was a Zelda game, or a Tomb Raider game, or an Elder Scrolls game or any other game where there is a single player character and therefore everything should obviously revolve around them. FF7 is a party based RPG. You're supposed to have a cast of characters. Characters who aren't just there for a 30 minute long filler sequence because the actual plot and story of the game is shallow and simple enough that it could be told on the attract screen of an arcade game.
And the game actually does have that for the first 5 hours of the game and then its totally abandoned and turned into the most generic jrpg story possible.
>You're just an contrarian upset you didn't get a straightforward, DQ-tier tale about "Good vs. Evil" to save the world from an evil wizard
lmao this is LITERALLY FF7s plot. Sephiroth is the generic evil bad guy who wants to destroy the world because he's a "superior being" and the heroes of light (in aeris case literally) all band together to stop him because he's bad. They have no motivations beyond that, no desires, no ambitions. Just "We need to save the world Cloud!" Due to the fact the party is interchangeable throughout the game, they barely even have dialog outside of the specific instances when they're forced into parties.
>and dog on 7 for it's more complex story telling
There is no complex storytelling in FF7. There is a bunch of inconsequential random bullshit that makes OCD 80 IQ dipshits like you make the algorithm face and think wow this is so complex and deep because you lack the ability to step back and actually think for 5 goddamn seconds if it even makes sense or is done well.

[Anonymous No.10121187]

>>10111095

All the characters killed of in FFII (né IV) were guest-star party members, all of whom were brought back from the dead aside from one, who was super old and going to die soon anyway. As for FFIII (né VI), Shadow's death at the midway point of the game is optional. He commits suicide at the end if you re-recruit him in the world of ruin, but that's not the same thing as having a main party member who's killed off no matter what halfway through the game. The latter leaves a far greater emotional impact.

[Anonymous No.10121283]

>>10121083

The mentally immature are incapable of understanding that just because you have a story where your main characters do morally questionable things doesn't mean you automatically have a morally complex story.

I don't even necessarily have a problem with any story where the villains are unambiguously evil and in the wrong. It's plenty possible to make a great character and write a great story with that all the same. It's just to use those words to describe Sephiroth, Shinra, and FFVII would be to do violence to language.

Sephiroth is cool. He looks as cool as a 32-bit chibi cartoon character can possibly look, he has cool powers, and has a lot of cool music backing his evil. But he is not a great character. His motivations are both preposterous and utterly unsympathetic, barely comprehensible even when playing with a localization that doesn't totally suck balls, and he somehow has no trouble almost pulling it off without any outside help from anyone who isn't under the thrall of his mind-control powers despite the most powerful organization in the world being at war with him. He does all this despite showing zero signs of being evil until the Nibelheim Incident.

What the fuck kind of sense does this character make? The only reason he was written this way is because the writers thought it would be cool to show a good guy becoming a bad guy, but didn't actually care enough to think of why Seph's personality evolved this way. It's every bit as bad a writing as you saw in XIII, or any other of Square's many poorly-written games.

[Anonymous No.10121287]

>>10121187
tell me you haven't played final fantasy 5 without telling me you haven't played final fantasy 5.

[Anonymous No.10121474]

>>10121287

Of course I didn't. I'm an American. I owned the Playstation version of Final Fantasy V. And nobody finished that version, because the load times were fucking unbearable. But that was the only version of V that came out in America at the time, and it came out a year after FFVII.

[Anonymous No.10121503]

>>10121474
Okay :thumbsup:

[Anonymous No.10121543]

>>10111658
No video game story has topped this series for me, although I don't play new games and haven't played many old PC games. I like how it's Gnostic and borderline Shakespearean (at least compared to any other video game dialogue I've heard).

[Anonymous No.10121605]

>>10107872
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

>>10107885
MGS1 also came to mind, but like most Kojima games, it really jumps the shark at the end. Honorable mention to Snatcher.

[Anonymous No.10121623]

Phantasy Star 3 is a godawful unfinished game I wouldn't recommend to anyone, but the overall plot and setting is rock solid. It wouldn't be out of place at all in a collection of classic planetary romance stories from Burroughs, Brackett, Vance, etc.

[Anonymous No.10121657]

>>10121287
galuf probably has the most cheap meaningless death in the whole FF series. he gets replaced by a mechanically identical character 5 minutes later which completely robs any sort of seriousness from it.

[Anonymous No.10121789]

>>10111168
>remake
>doing ANYTHING better

[Anonymous No.10121793]

>>10107872
FF7's plot is random anime nonsense

[Anonymous No.10122021]

>>10109931
Except look at real world events america never even defeated the poor terrorists in Afghanistan. All avalanche has to do is resist until shinra doesn't care anymore
>>10113897
Its the same with pre-emptive strike cloud has on before he knifes sephiroth. Same principle.

[Anonymous No.10122038]

>>10120981
>>10121030
>>10121083
>>10121283
Shut the fuck up, fag.

[Anonymous No.10122048]

>>10121283
>Replies to himself
Dripping with insecurity.

[Anonymous No.10122050]

>>10113931
First off avalanche wasn't criminal. They litterally hired cloud after he was better so they already knew him. And tifa was a founding member. Besides they hired him to be a direct assassin.
That "cloud storytime" episode Isn't skitz because it provides cred to his rank and how he knows who there fighting. Besides tifa was there so how is this someone lying?
Its not about cloud being normal. It shows him several times with memory holes and hallucinations even before he leaves midgar.
If anything it shows tifa maybe dead and she's a clone or android. It showed her die on screen.
>>10113974
Except it doesn't if you pay attention to the litteral game it's the same story. The only thing it never went into is how tifa survived and how she is somehow immune to the poison gas.
She's litterally a android cause you never see zagan again for all purposes he never made it out of nibelheim

[Anonymous No.10122064]

>>10110446
Cause there's a forcefield at the northern crater

[Anonymous No.10122085]

>>10110938
Al queda has litterally done that in real life

[Anonymous No.10122103]

>>10110951
>I'm sorry your favorite story when you were nine was poorly written.
>>10111249
>I played the game twice. Once when I was 13 years old and thought it was pretty good
Holy projection. KEK

[Anonymous No.10122104]

>>10111339
So then you miss the part of the date with cloud which is plot rich and intensive.
Also dyne.

[Anonymous No.10122109]

>>10111956
>J-cells playing Into clouds delusional persona.
It actually is stated he was controlling everyone from the start. When he has the conversation at the north crater. He realizes this and decides to kms by getting rekt when weapons melt the crater and fall into the lifestream.
>Cid has no relevance to the plot.
Cid is very relevant as he is the only one capable of firing a rocket to try and destroy meteor

[Anonymous No.10122114]

>>10112927
Very based and "played the game" pilled

[Anonymous No.10122116]

>>10122085

Bergdahl? He was an infantryman, who was kept as a prisoner after he deserted, and trusted with nothing beyond spotting Talib talking points about how the US should surrender, and use as a bargaining chip for exchanging prisoners. They didn't send him out on combat missions. Even though there was actual evidence he genuinely converted to Islam.

[Anonymous No.10122124]

>>10114750
There is. because no government is going to approve and still be voted in while destroying the planet.

[Anonymous No.10122131]

>>10116719
The thing is tifa herself says she has missing time.... Says she doesn't remember if zagan saved her or why she lived with a wound like that....
Because she didn't and she was cloned by hojo for the "failed clone" to make it to the reunion.
Or she's a literal robot looking like a person.

[Anonymous No.10122136]

>>10122124

Who says a government has to be voted in? Or even face legitimate elections?

[Anonymous No.10122140]

You guys are a bunch of plotlets

[Anonymous No.10122145]

>>10117202
Your wrong. Tifa is a woman. Who is in love with him. She would see him as her lifeline which is why she goes into the lifestream with him.
You've never had a real relationship with a woman have you.

She would
>Lie to keep him around
>Pretend to keep what sane parts are left inside him
>Keep him close because only she can save him
>Go along with his imagined nibelheim incident to protect him
>Force them to allow him to lead and into the group cause of muh feels

100% the j cells are controlling tifa the most. She's projecting and jenova is controlling every aspect of android tifa since the train station at the very beginning when she remet cloud

[Anonymous No.10122147]

>>10122104
He's just being willfully ignorant because he didn't like the game and because he didn't play it.
Up until that point in the story, Barret lost everything except his adoptive daughter and for all intents and purposes, had nowhere left to go and either had 1 of 3 options:
>Go into hiding with Marline
>Build Avalanche from the ground up again
>Go with Cloud and co.
As far as he was considered, following Cloud would lead to more chances for kicking Shirna ass, because that's all he had on his mind for the majority of the story until the end of Disc 2.

[Anonymous No.10122150]

[Anonymous No.10122159]

>>10122116
He's litterally real life cloud strife

[Anonymous No.10122163]

>>10122050
>>10122109
>>10122145
I was talking about the J-cells manipulating the party METAPHORICALLY. Dumb shitposter.

[Anonymous No.10122195]

>>10121083
>There is a bunch of inconsequential random bullshit that makes OCD 80 IQ dipshits like you make the algorithm face and think wow this is so complex and deep because you lack the ability to step back and actually think for 5 goddamn seconds if it even makes sense or is done well.
Like that anon said: Liner thinking brainlet.

[Anonymous No.10122213]

>>10122163
Your retarded simple as.
J cells can actively control. Infalna even says they became are brothers and sisters. Couldn't tell the j cell pepole from there actual relatives.
Cloud controlled tifa cause he saw a opening to do so. The only parts of real cloud are when he's hallucinating or right after the lifestream arc. Every other time he's "a puppet"

[Anonymous No.10122218]

If tifa is the actual one that got kami hamaha'ed by sephiroth. Where's the huge chest scar? And why is tifa seemingly very healthy. When zagan even said cure wasn't working and he repeatedly cast it down the mountains....

>Simple as
>tifa is dead and is a android or clone

[Anonymous No.10122224]

>>10122213
>J cells can actively control.
Yeah, internally.
Retard.

[Anonymous No.10122227]

>>10107872
Silent Hill 2

[Anonymous No.10122234]

There's an uptick in low quality shitposting at this our so I'm going to assume the Europoors and 3rd worlders are awake.

[Anonymous No.10122901]

>>10122159

If he were real-life Cloud Strife, Cloud would spend his entire time in Avalanche locked in cells, getting interrogated, making propaganda videos, praying five times a day to the planet, and the game would end with you going back home in exchanged for Avalanche prisoners who are actually trusted with combat missions, reviled by every one of your comrades.

[Anonymous No.10122908]

>>10122021
That's because defeating Al Qaeda was never the goal of the US. Al Qaeda basically did dirty work for US operations (see the Balkans in the 90s, Chechnya, Syria in the last 15 years). The invasion of Afghanistan was mostly about securing Heroin production after the Taliban announced it would destroy poppy fields in the late 90s, and keeping the Taliban in it's place when negotiating pipelines being built through their country.

[Anonymous No.10122932]

>>10110903
False, they were unsure if they were going to get a sequel and SE was taking money for FF8

[Anonymous No.10122949]

>>10122145

So Tifa can't find someone else? Someone who doesn't set off a million I-m-an-enemy-agent red flags?

She's a terrorist engaging in a war against the most powerful force on Earth! Her priorities would be "don't get killed" and "don't get captured". "Finding a boyfriend, no matter how obviously he is an enemy agent" is exactly the sort of dumb, anime-bullshit priority an IRL active paramilitant would never have that's the reason people make fun of anime bullshit for being anime bullshit.

It's also the reason why so many of us are saying that Cloud should've just been a member of Soldier the whole time. Making Tifa not seeing him, and making her dumb enough not to tell anybody about this between Kalm and the North Crater is exactly the sort of needless dumbness that could have been avoided if they'd just made the plot twist "Cloud was being controlled by J-cells" rather than "Cloud was never in Soldier". It also would make it far more likely that Tifa would actually still be hung-up on Cloud, as opposed to real life, where she would be horrified and alienated at his behavior, and would absolutely restrain and interrogate him for it.

[Anonymous No.10122957]

>>10122021

We did defeat AQ and the Talibs. We then left anyway, because we're dumb as fuck and live in Clown World. Our leaders are literally such worthless idiots, they still think it's a good idea to collaborate with Pakistan, a literal Islamic Republic that hates us and has relied on terrorism since their founding.

Also, Avalanche is six people at the start of the game and has no outside help whatever, which is totally dumb, anime bullshit on its own.

[Anonymous No.10122969]

>>10121657

Yeah, that's exactly the reason why Aeris's death hit way harder than the other FF and JRPG deaths. She was a regular party member, killed of at the middle of the game, no matter what you do, and she doesn't get replaced by an identical clone.

I still can't think of any other games that do that! Even in FFX which kills off two party members, it happens at the end of the game.

[Anonymous No.10122980]

>>10122050

>First off avalanche wasn't criminal

They're literally setting bombs off in reactors to destroy the city's energy infrastructure. How the fuck are they not a criminal organization?

[Anonymous No.10123282]

>>10122969
>I still can't think of any other games that do that!
Phantasy Star 2 and 4.

[Anonymous No.10123402]

>>10122969
Who the hell cares about Aeris dying except teenage waifufags? She's the worst character in the game
>oh hey you fell in my flower garden, and helped me escape from these people who never actually kidnap me anyway. I'm gonna follow you anywhere now because wow you remind me a lot of my ex boyfriend he's dead by the way tee-hee
>Oh you need to go save your childhood crush, ok let's dress up like prostitutes to sneak in and then I'll immediately start acting jealous and hostile toward her despite only knowing you for like 5 hours
>Ahhhhh save me they actually kidnapped me this time and want a doglion thing to rape me!
>Literally nothing happens for the next 10-15 hours of game time
>Oh wtf I'm an ancient and I can summon holy and save the world, time to run off to this ancient city I randomly knew about an-ACK
She's one of the most forced, obnoxious, and poorly written characters in all of media. She exists to have some dumb forced love triangle because that was popular in anime at the time (which is why FF8 did the same thing, only from Rinoas perspective) and to die. She's annoying, childish, useless, and barely developed as a character in anyway, which is why they had to have that whole monologue with her in the forest to even try to make someone give a shit about her.

[Anonymous No.10123509]

Max Payne. A standard revenge plot on the surface but the way the game constantly 'riffs' on it from various angles, with the hints at supernatural/apocalyptic events, or the TV shows and comics and ads everywhere, or the meta dream sequences, makes it fresh and exciting all the way through.

[Anonymous No.10123584]

I'm replaying OG God of War, and it really is amazing just how well it holds up. The acting, the scene direction, the crisp precision of the editing, the perfect timing of the voicelines, the hilarious black comedy moments combined with genuinely effective bouts of horror. Combine that with the threesome sex sequence, and I honestly think it has the strongest case of any title to be the best game in the history of the PS2, perhaps even the best game of the sixth generation.

Don't know if I'd say the plot is necessarily great, but it's at least good. It certainly doesn't have any of those insultingly dumb moments that many games people praise for having a great plot possess.

[Anonymous No.10123589]

>>10123584

(Or for that matter, that the sequels possess.)

[Anonymous No.10123609]

>>10123402

Hey, she's hot, sexually assertive, and has some beautiful theme music. That counts for a lot, especially to the middle-schoolers who were the games target audience.

Also, adding onto your point earlier about the dumbness of making Cloud secretly not a member of Soldier, the game also would've been a lot less dumb without the Zack character and just having Aeris be Cloud's girlfriend the whole time. Have them meet up and date during Cloud's original time in Soldier, but have them separate post Nibelheim incident. It'd add a lot more tension to the story, and some genuine moral ambiguity that otherwise isn't there.

[Anonymous No.10123619]

>>10123509
I wish I could be max Payne for a few hours. The ending was kino

[Anonymous No.10124184]

>>10107973
I don't really like the plot of Xenogears.
I think it has great characters and moments and the parts of the plot that relate to Fei and Elly's development specifically are really good. But I'd say FF7 has a much better plot overall.

[Anonymous No.10124934]

Thousand Year Door has a really great plot. It's a shame those dickheads at Nintendo refuse to make anything that resembles it since.

[Anonymous No.10124937]

>>10124934
Because that was worth a bump.

[Anonymous No.10125267]

>>10107872
>I have never been one to care about plot, but I got more interested in it recently.
As I got older the opposite happened to me. Used to think games with a focus on narrative was the bee's knees until I experienced a wider variety of media. Now that I understand gaming's limitations more I seek out games with interesting gameplay instead.

[Anonymous No.10125279]

>>10107872
metal gear

[Anonymous No.10126239]

>>10125279

Metal Gear has always been extremely poorly written, and not just when you take the series as a whole. Even at it's best, it's bogged down by an excess of redundant dialogue, ridiculous plot contrivance, needless convolution, bizarre sex fetishes, psychological immaturity, and a political worldview which, on top of being rather despicable, shows almost no understanding of anything resembling actual history, nor any thoughtfulness about the ideas explored.

It has great music, cool weapons, what was for the time and even to this day very high-quality voice acting and voice direction, mostly great bossfights, and there's a lot of high-stakes drama. But Agnes Kaku is right, Hideo's not close to good enough to be a network-TV writer. He sure as fuck isn't on the level of a David Simon or a Vince Gilligan. He's more on the level of the Left Behind guys.

[Anonymous No.10126254]

>>10126239
Didn't ask.

[Anonymous No.10126303]

>>10124184

Xenogears was in dire need of ruthless editing. There's no reason an eighty-hour campaign should be mostly unfinished, to the point where this includes four of your nine party members being totally irrelevant to the plot.

[Anonymous No.10126317]

>>10126239
MGS2 is one of the best plots in all of media and you are low IQ if you disagree
>akshulla a lot of the script was edited from what Hideo wanted so...
I don't care who writes things as long as they're good. It was probably only good because of that because Kojima is a hack

[Anonymous No.10126348]

>>10126303
and yet it has 200% more depth, content and characterization than most "finished" games.

[Anonymous No.10127249]

>>10114356
>Anyone got ideas for names?
Soulja boy. It's been an honor, /vr/.

[Anonymous No.10127254]

>>10113974
>This is my point, the story of FF7 is just there to do crazy shit. It doesn't tie together, it doesn't make sense, the characters aren't given motivations or personalities, and none of it has an actual affect on anything. It's actually one of the most bland and boring stories of all time. The entire story is Cloud wanting to prove he's better than Sephiroth and overcome his idol
Don't get drawn into traditional notions of Western storytelling, it's going to favour casuality over conflict.

[Anonymous No.10127287]

>>10127254
A story won't necessarily follow this plot progression structure.

[Anonymous No.10127342]

>>10127254
Don't bother responding to him anymore. By the point you just quoted, he's obviously trolling.

[Anonymous No.10128842]

>>10107885
fpbp

[Anonymous No.10130915]

>>10122949
Just wanted to say you're an autistic faggot who never played the game. If you're like this outside the internet I wouldn't be surprised if that have little to no friends for how autistically and childishly stubborn you are.