/vr/ - Retro Games

Based. It's the best game ever, and it always will be, and /vr/ will ALWAYS seethe over it.

>>9915639
Uhh i don't think you saw the thread that's been up all week dude. It's second place to Deus Ex now

>>9915641
Deus who? Oh right, the game redditors pretend to like because it's le based guy who says what a shame and they saw deus ex recut because /v/ told them it was a must-play game that will make them based secret-club members. Mmmhm.

>>9915646
>uses sóy meme while sucking off zelda
lmao the lack of self awareness is astounding

Dear god in heaven. Can you people find more than 2 games to discuss?
>OoT
>SM64
>OoT
>SM64
>OoT
>SM64
There's more to video games than one 3D platformer and one action-adventure game.

>>9915659
is there though? I struggle to really find anything for those specific genres. OoT is a wild one because people will argue to the death that it did nothing special but will clam up really fast when you ask them for what these other games are that do OoT better than OoT. Or they reccomend games that in no way vaguely resemble OoT unless you were trying to win an internet argument

>>9915638
I would rather play Adventures of Link

>>9915661
>is there though?
I literally mean that you've been taking non-stop about 2 games for the past 20 years. All of the people who wanted to play these games have done this and moved on. Everyone else won't touch these games anyway. What's the point of bringing up these 2 every single day?
And why do people do that? Because they have tendie brains. They won't touch any genre and any game if it's not by Nintendo. Instead, they need to prove for 100th time that we, tendies, won and are very important and GOAT because muh 10/10 game still 10/10. They won't touch any other acclaimed games, or whole genres like RPGs, strategies, and so on. No. Let's just make a 14235246th OoT thread, congratulating Nintendo for inventing lock on combat (truly marvelous achievement of humankind).
>I want more like OoT
every 3D Zelda made afterwards

>>9915685
you're just making a ton of assumptions at this point. Some people just like talking about a game they like. theres nothing greater for it. plenty of threads on other games.
>every 3d zelda made afterwards
bad faith argument

>>9915659
Doom

>>9915685
>Every game after
Retard. In OOT you get a 1 minute cutscene and exposition then you immedietely get the sword, the shield and you are in the first dungeon and finished it within the first 20 minutes of gameplay. The entire child section you can have done in about 4 hours and yet it feels like a really fucking huge journey just to make it that far. Every other zelda game has hours of tedious filler in exchange for doubling down on cinematics and story. They are nothing comparable to Ocarina of Time

>>9915690
>Some people just like talking about a game they like.
yeah, we have a thread every day about OoT. am I supposed to believe people are so autistically obsessed with it? especially when there's NO actual discussion of the game's dungeons, items, characters and so on? I can get Doom threads because of WADs and all. but this?
every thread about it is just low effort tendie posting like "yep, OoT still GOAT". much like this thread. it's far, FAR less often that people discuss the ACTUAL substance of the game. you know—dungeons, items, characters, and so on. you know why? there's very little to actually discuss here after 25 years.
but nooo let's make another daily thread about how important OoT was to gaming.
>bad faith argument
then maybe get a life and try playing something beside Zelda in your fucking life. of course it's the best game you've ever played if all you ever owned was N64. I can bet you've never even touched half of the vidya genres in existence.

>>9915694
wow, it's almost like they made OoT again, but with more cutscenes. makes you think. imagine replaying same Zelda game 20 times over

>>9915697
well evidently you aren't helping with that discussion. Its a good game. different people pass through /vr/ all the time to make a thread. quit being a sperg.

>>9915697
Agreed

>>9915708
>well evidently you aren't helping with that discussion.
with what "discussion"? "Yep, still GOAT"? that's a lot to discuss here. it's the same dumb holywar. this exact topic is discussed if not every day, then literally every single week (just go to any /vr/ archive and see if I'm exaggerating). if you've only been here for just a year, you've already seen the same discussion 50 times. what's the point of discussing same thing over and over again?
notice how comparatively few threads we have about dungeons in OoT, or secrets, or game system specifics—because it's about holywars, not the gameplay. or combat—because we can all thank OoT for "boss has weak point, wait half the fight for him to open, strike the point, rinse wash repeat". or characters (besides waifus)—because they are all hilariously ugly saturday morning cartoon crap, ugly not because of my biases, but because the game style WANTS to emphasize their ugliness (I guess to show that Link is a chad bishonen in comparison). or plot—because Zelda timeline is a hilariously convoluted mess which in the end boils down to "boy with sword collected 3 good lookin' triangles and beat the bad red haired man"; and any time you listen to anyone discuss plot in Zelda, it sounds like they quite literally have autism or schizo episodes; and also because no one ever felt anything for a single Zelda character dying, living, shitting themselves over, whatever. we did have one Zelda art thread not that long ago; but such threads are few and far between.
what we DO have though? zero effort threads like "OoT is literally GOAT".
>different people pass through /vr/ all the time to make a thread.
to make the same thread, yeah.
btw, you never said anything about you playing any other genres and consoles beside N64. goes to show.

>>9915638
I agree, though it didn't particularly interest me. It wasn't "my Zelda", but I'm glad you enjoyed it.

>>9915774
I made this thread because i always get entertaining replies like this one kek

>>9915654
It has the same problem as OoT. The first four to six hours are amazing, and then the next twenty is a bunch of shit that you force your way through to get to the end. Ignore this if you like JRPGs. because I know you fuckers will sit through anything.

>>9915863
>I was only pretending to be retarded and making shitty threads, you all got baited lol
ok

>>9915638
It has far more magic moments than the new Zelda.
>deku tree dying
>link running away from saria
>pulling the master sword out
>anything related to the time travel, especially seeing hyrule for the first time after becoming adult
>any time you learn a new song
>epona jumping over the bridge
>going inside lord jabu jabu
>the entire ganondorf part
>the entire fucking soundtrack
Only twilight princess even attempted giving the player a similar experience.

>>9915880
Im not being retarded im using message boards for their intended purpose of generating discussion, cope and seethe

*mashes A*

>>9915774
My 2 cents. Part (really most) of the reasons you keep seeing non stop nintendo game bait threads is because anons like you keeps having meltdowns. That and casual games can unironically be fun

>>9916023
Did you get all that?

>No
Yes

>>9916086
Fucking owl piece of shit, fuck you. Fuck fucking owls, fuck

>>9916078
this is literally the first time I responded to these threads, because I'm tired of same SM64 and OoT circlejerking.
>we keep posting shit bait threads because you respond
yeah, thanks for shitting up the catalog and bringing the board quality down I guess? people like you need to be rangebanned.

>>9915638
It's official then: most people now think it's shit.

>game demands you sit through slow-moving, unskippable, unspeedupable text and then press A to move onto the next one.

>>9915638
It's alright I guess, still prefer virtual hydlide on saturn, sure the framerate sucks on that but the flow of the game just feels better to me

>>9916118
Oh, I'm generally a lurker. I've never even made a thread. I'm a different kind of useless. Doesn't change the fact that watching over emotional anons flip a shit is 4chan culture. Its irritating, but a magic trick to just hide the thread and move on. Like this

>>9915639
A few /v/ shitposters aren't /vr/

>>9915774
ocarinards btfo

>>9915654
I don't see Link consuming sóylent, do you? Do you even know your so(y)urce material? Who's not self aware, faggot? Kill yourself

>>9915638
Yes it is. Dinosaur Planet, on the other hand, is an absolute classic. In fact, Dinosaur Planet was so good, that Miyamoto himself had to personally sabotage development to prevent it from mogging his precious Ocarina of Tripe.

>>9917242
Not the first time he's done that, either. Starfox 2 got shit canned for Starfox 64

>>9917262
Miyamoto is a terrible developer and I will die on that hill.
Best Super Mario game? Super Mario Land and Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins.
Best Donkey Kong game? Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong 64.
Best Zelda game? Trick question: Dinosaur Planet.
Anything he gets his spindly, rice-eating, cigarette-smoking hands on always turns to shit, even if he was the original creator.

>>9917267
I can't disagree with any of that. The dude seems to resent anyone doing anything with the IPs he supposedly created. After seeing Wii Music flop before it was even released, it made me seriously doubt he had any real involvement with Star Fox or Zelda.

Six Golden Coins and Wario Land are some of my absolute favorite Game Boy games. I'll admit I really enjoyed OoT as a kid, but it was literally the first 3D game I had ever played.

>>9915674
Based, even though you don't know the actual name of the game.

I have been gaming for 25 years and still have not been able to play this more than 5 minutes. I'll try to force myself through it one day just to say I played it.

>>9915638
It’s not and the only ones saying that are the youngins of today

Egoraptors review unironically nails it

>>9915638
It's literally the most overrated game of all time.

>>9917267
>Best Zelda game? Trick question: Dinosaur Planet.
uhhh QRd?

>>9915638
superior

>>9915638
I prefer the game it copied. Copied poorly.

>>9918340
Dinosaur Planet is just a superior version of Ocarina of Time
>No useless, annoying ass fairy (You get a dope, fire-breathing protoceratops or pterodactyl sidekick that you can control)
>No retarded owl that exists solely to waste your time (You get a big ass Pyornkrachzark advisor who only dispenses wisdom when you ask for it)
>No “cutscenes” that require you to mash the A button and read lame shit (Fully voice acted and animated cutscenes that only take as long as they need before you return to the game; subtitles added as a bonus for the deaf)
>No ear-grating, Super Mario 64-levels-of-ass music that try and fail to be “cinematic” (Dinosaur Planet features absolutely mesmerizing music with instruments that sound like they were taken straight out of a philharmonic orchestra)
>No need to pause the game just to access items (Use the C buttons like an absolute chad)
>No unnecessary weapons just to give the game “SOVL” (This “SOVL” is a lie; it makes Ocarina of Tripe gay and sovlless)
>Less dungeons to waste your time in and get bored of (Water Temple, amirite?)
>Dinosaur Planet has an actual villain to defeat (A based dragon hellbent on destroying an entire planet and not some random sand nigger that turns into a pig like OoT)
>Absolutely no pre-rendered graphics crap for villages and shit (Everything’s rendered in real-time, baby!!!)
>No gay ass field with nothing to do but walk in (Everywhere on Dinosaur Planet has some shit for you to do to not be bored)
>EPIC BOSS FIGHTS!! (Vulvagina? King Doodoongo? Bingo Bango Bongo? Nah man, give me BOSS GALADON, a big mantis-dinosaur thing, and BOSS KLANADACK, a straight-up gargantuan t-rex, any day of the week!)
>Motherfucking DINOSAURS!!!! (Not a single sissy elf boy to be seen.)
>The nigga in the pic (“PUT THAT DOWN!!! YOU DON’T HAVE ENOUGH SCARABS!!!)
Need I say more?

>>9918369
Okay, furry.

>>9918371
Whatever you say, femboy.

>>9915874
But OOT doesn't get amazing until the adult dungeons

>>9918369
OP here, thanks for writing this out, I never realised they put this much into it.

>>9915638
I liked it a lot.

>>9918110
Honestly, his video has a lot of problems, but he does have a few good points.

>>9918538
Why are you pretending to be me FAGGOT

>>9919206
>>9918110
Egoraptors video is terrible, literally a giant strawman argument and anyone who parrots it is a smoothbrain. Seeing the video of egoraptor playing OoT and being terrible at it explained everything. I beat the game when I was 7 with far more competence than he displayed.

I'm fine if someone doesnt like OoT but the way egoraptor structures his argument is just terrible. He makes some legitimate points about how he values an open structure vs a linear one but then goes on to ramble about irrelevant shit like animations taking too long or having to "wait" to hit Stalfos which is just literally incorrect and shows he didnt bother to experiment with the game enough. Having to strawman with some obnoxious fanboy character made it all the more insufferable.

>>9919303
>Seeing the video of egoraptor playing OoT and being terrible at it explained everything.
I agree that he is terrible at the game. However, that doesn't change that much. You should judge the video on its own merits. A lot of his arguments are still very legitimate, like how the game doesn't allow you to access certain areas until the story brings you to them (which seems to have been inspired by Link's Awakening, although that game did it in a somewhat natural way compared to Ocarina).

> ...then goes on to ramble about irrelevant shit like animations taking too long...
It is a legitimate point though. Sure, he said a lot of bullshit in his "too much waiting" argument: some enemies like stalfos and skulltulas don't actually require waiting, "waiting for the characters to stop talking" is obviously required by the story, and "waiting for bombs to blow up" is straight up retarded.

However, what do things like the chest opening animation add to the game?
Sure, these are not major things by any means, but they are still legitimate problems with the game.

>>9919430
I think the chest opening animation is hiding a load screen the same way the screen transitions in LoZ and LttP are. I'm not 100% confident and someone probably has figured that out for sure but it makes sense. Even if its not the animation takes less than 10 seconds and doesnt happen very frequently, it looks cool and its such a small part of the game its not even worth complaining about. It probably adds up to 1 or 2 minutes in a 20+ hour long game.

>>9919303
Never take what he says on vidya design seriously, because his gameplay skills have well beyond shown he's a poser that has no clue what he's talking about, contradicts his viewpoints constantly and a contrarian that just hates popular games for no other reason but.
He gone on record saying years ago during his OoT playthrough that MM is his favorite. After he couldn't beat the Black Reaper in the Stone Tower Temple he threw a fit and admitted he lied about liking the game, dropped the playthrough, then restarted the whole thing 2 years later while using a guide.

>>9919430
Oh also the not being able to access certain areas until the story lets you isnt a good point. He doesnt actually argue why thats a bad thing, he says he doesnt like it and he brings in a crazed fanboy fictional character that he made up to be a strawman. His point is "this fake person I made up likes it, and this guy sucks so that means its bad!"

I personally like that linear style of game and a lot of people do. Its part of the reason why OoT is so polished - a more linear game allows devs to put more care into the games pacing and player experience. I dont think either structure is inherently worse or better than the other. But if he wants to criticize it he needs reasons why its not good, otherwise hes just pushing his own preferences on you.

>>9919281
Imagine getting triggered over someone impersonating as you in an anonymous imageboard.

>>9919473
Fag

>>9915874
Deus Ex is consistently well designed till the very end.

>>9919462
>not being able to access certain areas until the story lets you isnt a good point
The funny thing is he gives AlttP a slap on the wrist for doing essentially the same thing, but lashes out at OoT as if it was suppose to know better. I've said it before, but it's like a mother scolding the youngest brother for not living up to the older sibling's success when he's trying something new in the new era.

>>9919486

>>9919462
It is a good point, because non-linearity and exploration are basically the core ideas of the Zelda series. These were things that made the original Zelda so exciting. Sure, ALttP was more linear than the original, but exploration was still required to beat the game. Also, ALttP had tons of secrets hidden both in the overworld, as well as the dungeons.

>a more linear game allows devs to put more care into the games pacing and player experience
I don't really see how.

>pacing
I don't think the idea of "pacing" applies to video games (except for really linear "cinematic" style games). In video games, the player is almost always free to choose their own pace. Also, the same game will take different amounts of time for different players to beat.

>>9919486
>I've said it before, but it's like a mother scolding the youngest brother for not living up to the older sibling's success when he's trying something new in the new era.
Don't you think a game should be judged on its own merits? You can't deny OoT's influence, but its actual quality is up for debate.

>>9919568
>"J-Judge the video on it's own merits!"
>Ok well he's a retard that's biased, and besides, he's a hypocrite when put into practice.
>"J-Judge the game on it's own merits!"
Fuck off, devil's advocate. This argument's several years old and he was proven to be an ADHD hack.

>>9919551
>ALttP had tons of secrets hidden both in the overworld, as well as the dungeons
So does OoT

You do have opportunities to explore as well, not as much as lttp but the first time I beat the game I never even found Epona. I saw people on Youtube years later riding a horse around and was confused as to how they got it. I actually think theyre structured a lot more similarily than how Arin leads on, they both block progression until youve found something specific (usually in the form of a hint given to you by an NPC) and you have to go fuck off and find that item. Lttp doesnt give you nearly as much freedom as he leads on in that way, you can technically explore wherever but progression is locked in most places if you dont follow the dungeon order since you need items from previous dungeons to progress. Even Links Awakening is that way. The video would make a lot more sense if it was about comparing NES Zelda to later ones but it isnt.

Also pacing definitely does apply
>in video games the player is almost always free to choose their own pace
This is just false, like yeah its not as tightly structured as a movie but youre still giving the player goalposts to reach in a certain sequence and you have to have an awareness of about how much time thats going to take. Technically you could ignore the games pacing and just spend 5 hours in the overworld slashing skeletons to death but the devs are very aware most players are going to want to go beat the objective since thats what they put time into making interesting. If pacing didnt matter at all then there would be no reason to put downtime inbetween dungeons where you have to talk to people and explore a bit, or there would be no reason to not have one dungeon be 5x the size of the last dungeon you beat.

>>9919581
I'm not defending Egoraptor.

>>9919591
You don't mind batting for him.
Point is, he doesn't practice what he preaches, so when SAYS something is good or bad yet DEMNSTRATES his skills poorly, kinda' makes him lookmlike a hypocrite and his position moot don't you think?

>>9919584
>progression is locked in most places if you dont follow the dungeon order since you need items from previous dungeons to progress.
Not always. Also, you can just grab the item, leave the dungeon and go to whatever dungeon requires that item. So, technically, the dark world dungeons in ALttP can be completed in any order. Also, it might be possible to complete Desert Temple and Tower of Hera in reverse order by using this trick, although i'm not sure.

The reason I bring this up is because ALttP simply gives you more options in approaching the game. Just like you can beat the original Zelda without the sword, you can complete ALttP in interesting and "unintended" ways.

>>9919618
I do agree he's a hypocrite, but I also think that he makes legitimately good points in his OoT video.

>>9919642
>but I also think that he makes legitimately good points in his OoT video.
You're just gullible then.

>>9919671
Why? I don't agree with most of his points (in fact, I think he goes completely insane and starts spouting nonsense in the second half of the video).

>>9919684
>Why?
I'm not going to repeat myself because it's clear you're just not grasping what's been said.

>>9915638
It’s not

>>9915639
Fpbp

/v/-tier thread can we just ban everyone who hasn't posted here at least 5 years ago... somehow

>>9915659
They're talked about not because they the peak, but because they were pioneers.

>>9915646
Deux Ex is a game that absolutely could be the best FPS or RPG, but it's RPG elements directly result in the shooting being incredibly sloppy in a way that makes the game much weaker than it otherwise would have been.

Having said that, it's one of the few acclaimed PC FPS that really lets you ramp the difficulty up to a properly hardcore level which is a really surprising thing in general, that is how few PC FPS have really well thought out difficult settings.

>>9919447
The chest opening animation is easily warranted for major items, but maps and compasses should just straight up no have been in large chests, they just don't warrant the fanfare and it makes obtaining them an exercise in mild disappointment instead of a pleasant surprise.

I'll see if I can make of mod that 'fixes' this.

>>9919637
>The reason I bring this up is because ALttP simply gives you more options in approaching the game

It doesn't. OoT has way, way less story gating than you're implying, really only the Shadow Temple (requires Forest, Fire, water), the Spirit Temple (requires Forest to access the past) are the only specifically story gated dungeons, apart from the Deku Tree's death and using the stones to access the sacred realm, the entire rest of the game is item based and very open.

>>9917242
>>9917262
>>9917267
>>9917301
Samefag and Steven L kentpilled

>>9915638
OP is correct. It succeeds practically on all levels. Where it fails it's fan quibbling or it's a comparison to aLttP (and fair enough, what with the issue of dungeon order and the notably empty overworld. However OoTs behemoth stature casts a shadow on its ancestor). It's a whirlwind adventure full of mystery. Mechanistically, it's robust, inventive, sensible, *AND* perfectly in service of an awesome archetypal Hero's Journey.

The particular tight blend of mechanics that Ocarina of Time cinched in its being created has remained such a reliable blueprint for single-player campaign games to come that one can be forgiven for playing through it and *not* realising the genius which they are gazing on. We're talking camera placement, Z-targeting; we're talking the reapplication of lessons learned in 2d game design in a materialised environment - that's gated progression, that's powerups that recast the functional context of the 3d game world - like, for instance, the hookshot - we're talking basic movement feeling so grounded that instead of the iconographic world of aLttP, the player actually feels like they are taking part in a real act. These mechanics are deeply functionally sound, not to mention pioneering in a 3d context, AND well polished, but more than that, they are storytelling blocks as much as the visual design and the narrative scenarios.

That's how thoroughly considered and full of SOVL OoT is. Link goes around liberating people of their ills, and these mechanics are how he does it! You really go and power up your sword through effortful striving, and slash monsters with added agility. But you also really choose a bottle from your item subscreen and carry some potion across the land for somebody's sake. The mechanics, the story concept, game scenarios, the visual design and the soundtrack are in such resonance, in such tandem service of a point, that you can't merely recapture it in a sequel or an inspired-by.

>>9921659
Bro’s literally out here saying Ocarina of Tripe has SOVL.
Yeah, ok sure. Until you have played Dinosaur Planet, get the fuck outta here, sped.

>>9923328
furry.

>>9923340
Femboy.

>>9915638
That’s right. Something being “overrated” is a weird concept. “I don’t like thing as much as everyone else!” Wow cool, anyway

>>9915659
Final Fantasy 7 is GOAT, Final Fantasy 8 is weebshit

>>9915694
based
I was filtered from the series by Twilight Princess desu

>>9923328
do you mean play starfox adventures? or is there some demo you played? OoT has an unbelieveable amount of soul for also being the high-selling mass-market success it is

>>9923390
Pay him no mind. He's been doing this in every thread tangentially related to OoT.

>>9915638
It is overrated, shill. I'm starting to think oot threads are a psyop

>>9917267
Look, I know Miyamoto is a salty faggot but saying the first Mario Land is better than SMB3 is pure contrarianism

>>9921389
With GMDX mod it becomes much better.

>>9918369
It's a shame it's unfinished. I could sense the soul from it when watching gameplay videos.