/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9681323
>I want good console RPGs (not action ones)
I'll make this joke just to get it out of the way: so you don't want good RPGs? X D

>>9681323
Breath of Fire 3 is a great game. So is Shining Force 2.

>>9681323
>hate FF but I can play the worst one
I think you'll have to look for your own games you have let's say unorthodox taste

>I want good RPGs that have good gameplay and provide challenge.
About that...

>>9681330
What's good about BoF3 in particular? I know jack shit about the series.
>>9681328
>>9681334
>>9681337
le epic responses

>>9681334
FF5 is the only good Final Fantasy game after I and YOURE a mouth breathing homo retard for disagreeing

FF6

>>9681378
Does it actually have good gameplay? I played the GBA version back in the day, it starts out quite cool, but then quickly becomes really average. After some point in a desert in the beginning it felt like the game stopped trying so I dropped it. Also, could be me, but I don't like the art style of the game that much. All in all I feel as if either I don't get something, or it's hilariously overrated by nintendies and kids who discovered ZSNES after playing FF7.

>>9681351
>couldn't understand FF2s mechanics
>isn't the retard
>has no soul to appreciate FF3-4, 6
>isn't a homo

>>9681525
GBA version is ugly and the desert part is very early in the game to judge it. It's not the absolute masterpiece like some tendies claim but it is still very good 16-bit JRPG, one of the best in fact and easily in the level of Phantasy Star 4 or Lunar games (try those too btw). The only thing that FF5 has over FF6 is a job system but otherwise it's much more average game.

>>9681553
yeah, I suppose FF6 can't be trash with that amount of recognition everywhere. though for how much the game is praised, I'd expect it to start stronger and instead of "needing time" to get great.
>Phantasy Star 4
literally just beat it actually, very good game overall, though the challenge and depth is a step down from 2.
>Lunar games (try those too btw)
I thought those were liked for plot / animu. are they good gameplay-wise?

Saga Frontier is a unique experience and the systems are not too oblique

>>9681618
how does one start a SaGa game? I mean, I heard the system is very unorthodox, with stuff like level downs, monsters leveling with you, etc. is there some sort of a starting guide for the games?

>>9681582
FF6 is like the golden standard for classic JRPG. There is nothing wrong with it unless you really hate the games that tend to be overrated by the mainstream. If you complete it and don't like it, chances are you're not into the genre, but since you have played through Phantasy Star 4 then this is probably not the case. Lunar (32 bit version) is another such game. All three of them are fine and don't have any problems that some other JRPGs suffer from, like outdated dungeons design and frequent random encounters of Phantasy Star 2, relative simplicity and lack of challenge of Chrono Trigger, dated polygonal graphics of FF7 etc

>>9681541
You type like a fag

>>9681323
>Provides challenge
>Think Mother 1, DQ3, Phantasy Star 2

On Famicom:
Megami Tensei 1 and 2
Shinsenden - The Legend of Immortals
STED: Iseki Wakusei no Yabou

STED and Shinsenden were the hardest I played, but STED wasn't hard in a good way. Shisenden was though but that game is lacking in exploration.

Maybe Jubei Quest and Ninjara Hoi! (two DQ clones) as well as Sweet Home and Dream Master, though they're probably not as challenging as the above they're still not braindead

>>9681674
>Megami Tensei 1 and 2
heard about these, that they need mapping, have both broken enemies and broken player mechanics. kind of want to avoid games where every dungeon looks the same like in Phantasy Star 1, does Megami Tensei suffer from this?
>Shinsenden - The Legend of Immortals
>STED: Iseki Wakusei no Yabou
never heard of these, what's the quick rundown on these 2?

>>9681720
> does Megami Tensei suffer from this?

The first game does have broken enemies, I think some of them due to the translation. Things that could crash the game.

As for dungeons, the first game already has several different locations using different backgrounds

>>9681720
>what's the quick rundown on these 2?

>>/vr/thread/S9619418#p9619475
>>/vr/thread/S9619418#p9640282

>>9681725
ok. re the dungeons a pain to navigate? do you need to map every step? because Phantasy Star 1 was like that for me, basically if I just got distracted I forgot where I was 5 seconds ago. every wall looks the same, chests vanish when you open them.
btw, are you the anon who beat every RPG on NES?

>>9681736
Yeah you do need to map every step in Megami Tensei 1 and 2

No I haven't beaten every RPG on NES and I probably never will considering I already gave up on a few of them and quite a few are still untranslated

Uncharted Waters: New Horizons
Metal Max Returns
Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer
Torneko: The Last Hope
Chocobo's Dungeon 2
Energy Breaker

>Megami Tensei 1&2
Just play KMT instead

Albert Odyssey on the Saturn

Phantasy Star IV
Lunar 1 & 2
FF Tactics
Tactics Ogre

I highly recommend Shining Force 2 as a great tactical rpg for Genesis.

Azure Dreams

>>9681757
>Uncharted Waters: New Horizons
I shit you not I actually mixed this game up with Pirates of Dark Waters and thought this was the same IP.
pretty weird since it's a realistic RPG from Koei, what does it play like?
>Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer
>Torneko: The Last Hope
>Chocobo's Dungeon 2
do those have random dungeons?

>>9681740
>Yeah you do need to map every step in Megami Tensei 1 and 2
…fuck

>>9681829
Yeah, all mystery dungeons have random dungeons.

>>9681624
I can't speak for SaGa at large because I've only played through SaGa Frontier and a bit of Romancing SaGa 3. For SaGa Frontier you have a choice of around 10 different protagonists who all have quite different quests. I'd recommend Red for a first play through because his story is quite linear at the start.

You have 4 different types of characters:
Humans level like in Final Fantasy 2, if you use melee attacks your strength goes up, if you use guns your dexterity goes up and if you use magic spells your magic goes up. If you use a sword you learn sword skills, if you use particular sword skills you learn advanced sword skills.
Robots get better stats from better equipment and can learn skills from beating other robots.
Monsters can acquire new moves from beating other monsters which can transform their monster type, transforming a lot raises their stats.
Mystics level their stats similar to humans but can absorb an enemy to do special moves associated with a particular piece of equipment.

Enemies do level with you but bosses don't and there is a cap to how high the enemy level can go, so grinding is a legitimate tactic.

There are a number of types of magic, you must pick between opposite schools of magic, eg Light and Dark. Mostly you purchase the basic spells and then after completing the side quest associated with the type of magic, you master it and can learn the advanced spells by using the basic spells.

It's more systems heavy than a lot of RPGs but it looks cool IMO and while you will see similar things on different playthroughs, there is plenty of variety.

>>9681323
Phantasy Star IV is better than 2 in literally every way imaginable and best in the series by a wide margin. Easy pick.

>>9681761
Kyuuyaku's MT 1 is superior to the famicom one but MT 2 is inferior to it's famicom version, mostly because of an inferior soundtrack imo

>>9681378
VIII

>>9682091
I have a Genesis collection with 2, 3 and 4 on it. And it seems like the universal consensus is 4 is by far the best but my autism says since I've never played any of them I must play in numerical order. But since the collection doesn't have 1 that ruins the whole sequential progression idea so I'm kind of talking myself into just starting with 4 anyway even if jumping the order makes me a little twitchy.

My personal issues aside, is there any downside to jumping straight to 4 and having no familiarity with the series as a whole? Are each of the games kind of independent entities with their own story and mechanics like the FF games?

>>9681323
>I want good console RPGs (not action ones)
No such thing

>>9682667
>i want to play a video game where you mindlessly kill thousands of enemies
>beat em up? no. platformer? no. Shmup? no.
>simulation of a tabletop game that would be extremely boring if it was nothing but combat with numbers? that's the game for me

>>9682651
There are various references to the first three games in IV. Personally I think you should either only play IV or play them in order.
>>9681624
SaGa is unorthodox. Play it when you feel like you have to play it.

>>9681829
>what does it play like?
You choose from a privateer, a pirate, an explorer, a merchant, a cartographer, or a treasure hunter during the 1500s and sail around the undiscovered world. You have to manage resources to make sure your crew is able to survive sailing the seas. Combat is SRPG-esque grid-based.

Far East of Eden Zero
Oriental Blue

>>9682651
>My personal issues aside, is there any downside to jumping straight to 4 and having no familiarity with the series as a whole?

You'll obviously miss the constant references to earlier games in the series and what happened in them, as three of the four titles take place within the same solar system... and in a series where planet-hopping is the norm that's not exactly limiting in any way. Fortunately there's about a thousand year gap since the last game took place, and everything about it is now the "ancient civilization" that 4's PCs are rediscovering for themselves so it's not like you'd be alone in that regard.

Also some of the terminology for spells, items and weapons are shared between games.

I guess the real downside is you don't get the see the evolution of gameplay systems between games going forward so you can't appreciate why some would call IV the best.


>Are each of the games kind of independent entities with their own story and mechanics like the FF games?
Of the four, only PSIII could be considered it's own thing but even that one eventually ties back to PSII.

If no one else will say it

Fire Emblem

>>9682651
Are you OP or not? Have you played PS2 and want more like that or?

>>9682091
thanks but see above, I just beat it
>>9682651
I'll break it down for you. tl;dr: if you want easy smooth experience and a game that everyone likes, absolutely pick 4. if you're hardcore and prefer a bit more obscure games, pick 2
if you're starting with 2:
—please play it with improvement patch
—expect the most maze-like, crazy dungeons you've seen in any top-down RPG (you will need maps or map stuff yourself)
—overall high difficulty, it's not "unfair" but prepare that you won't have money to buy the best equipment, that you will need to stock up on healing items and even then most likely won't beat most later dungeons in one go
—some system 'tism like how guns don't actually correspond to their attack stat, overall rough around edges
—not that much plot, the part ACTUALLY needed to understand 4 can be summed in a few sentences (and 4's intro pretty much does that)
—however, you will really see where the overall setting of 4 originated from (which copies it for like 2/3 of the game), get the feel for spell names, items, planets, how some chars feel similar in both games, etc.
if you're starting with 4:
—can be played without patches
—dungeons are just standard RPG stuff, they're short and you hardly ever need a map
—difficulty curve is extremely smooth, most people describe it as "perfect"
—top notch presentation & music
—lots of plot
—overall simplified / more straightforward compared to PS2, much more standard RPG feel
—the overall setting gets kinda rehashed hard for 2/3 of the game from PS2, in fact sometimes it feels almost like a remake of 2. the characters of 2 are never really referenced. but like I said, it's the setting and spells etc that are literally almost same. the structure of the plot is also very similar.

>>9682651
Skip all of them and go to pso. Better in everyway and military still has an online scene to this day.

>>9682651
>>9683943
and if you really want to start with 4 and get all the relevant plot of 2, SPOILER:
1000 years before PS4, Motavia was under control of Mother Brain. it was a system that managed the whole planet's climate and stuff. it turned Motavia from a desert (PS1) to green planet with agriculture, and created prosperity, so people became completely reliant on it, though they no idea who controlled it. but eventually, the system went haywire, and started producing monsters. heroes managed to get into Bio Labs and Climate Control to stop some of it, but then got framed and sent on a jail ship to planet Palma. it so happened that the ship crashed into Palma, destroying it (but some ships escaped the destruction, which is the plot of PS3). the heroes were saved and were told to go to Dezoris, a mysterious planet abandoned by humans. here, they eventually meet a powerful esper Lutz (aka Noah), a hero of PS1 who was in cryogenic sleep. the heroes are given Aero-Prism that reveals a bunch of dungeons to then that give them some sacred equipment. then finally Lutz says he found where Mother Brain is controlled from. they teleport to some satellite and encounter Dark Force. finally, they destroy Mother Brain, but this also means the system that supported the whole planet is fucked and the climate with it too. (though not referenced in PS4 at all, theres a scene after where the heroes find out a bunch of guys standing behind Mother Brain. they reveal they came from Earth, they learned to control their planet much like with Mother Brain, but drained all the resources and led the planet to death. they escaped on a spaceship and found Algo system. they saw that people there were living there in good conditions, so they got jealous and decided to grab the planet for themselves—thus constructing Mother Brain and gradually getting control over everything. the heroes battle them, with unknown outcome, and the game ends).

>>9683927
he's not OP. I'm OP and I beat PS2 and PS4. started 1 but the mazes are too much

>>9682038
oh ok, thanks anon. so kind of like FF2, I see. does SaGa 3 have same system as Frontier?
what i dont get though:
>Mystics level their stats similar to humans but can absorb an enemy to do special moves associated with a particular piece of equipment.
"absorb enemies"? how does that work?
>Enemies do level with you
is it even worth it to grind? I guess you get better skills / stats, does it make up for enemies getting stronger?

>>9683970
>the mazes are too much

If you can, play the Sega Ages port on Switch as that one has an automap feature and other enhancements that make figuring out those mazes less of a pain. Or just do what everyone else does and consult a guide.

>>9684045
yeah, thanks, I know about this one, but I don't have Switch. I guess I'll beat PS1 one day, but I want to play it as intended and map it—I just lack motivation right now.
and the game is so basic, like holy shit. I guess that's how super early RPGs like Ultima played like. up until I got Lutz, there were barely any useful spells whatsoever. barebones combat, barebones equipment, barebones plot, barebones everything.

>>9684045
Care to explain how bad the mazes are without a map? I always hear anons saying just go left constantly to figure these out.

Lunar 1 and 2.

>>9684143
ok. I always thought Lunar was just for weebs because of CD video. but since everyone recs it, I guess it should be good. which version do I play?

>>9684120
not him (I'm OP), but every wall looks the same. you can't mark your patch, chests vanish when you open them.
now imagine you start a dungeon. you have 3-way fork in the road. ok, you memorize to go back. go left. whoops, another 3 way fork. I guess go left again?… whoops, another one. then you bump into enemies. ok, dead end. turn back, see a 3 way fork. how many left turns have we taken again? where the fuck are we? where do we go now?
that's the kind of experiences you'll have if you don't draw maps.

>>9684148
I'm biased to the Sega CD versions since those are the original way I played them.

>>9684157
Sounds like a case of git gud. Surely speed runners don't need maps

>>9684148
Definetely play the PS1 versions. The Sega CD version didn't have the bromides which are the main reason to play Lunar.

>>9684157
Did you enjoy PS2, how'd you do the dungeon with a hidden entrance?
Etrian odyssey series?
Atlus Mega ten games. I believe Strange journey has a map.
Could try Rouge likes? Fatal labyrinth is in the sega collection on steam.
Wizardy? Ultima?
The world ends with you. Flexible difficulty and they have gameplay reasons. Easy to ultimate difficulty. Can lower your level to increase drop %.

>>9684206
>didn't have the bromides
didn't have what?
anyway if PS1 is better I'll play it, don't want hassle with emulating Sega CD

>>9684213
>how'd you do the dungeon with a hidden entrance?
which one?
>Etrian odyssey series?
pretty good, though I played it when I was young and I didn't yet develop taste for hard RPGs, plus the art is too weeb. I was thinking of maybe trying it again sometime, but I thought it was supposed to mimic some "OG" games but I don't know whether it's better than them or not
>Could try Rouge likes? Fatal labyrinth is in the sega collection on steam.
>Wizardy? Ultima?
never tried those, a bit afraid I'll get filtered or they're a bit too complicated / with zero handholding unlike JRPG
>The world ends with you
tried it back in the day, dropped it. was it supposed to be hard? didn't feel so. and the artwork makes my eyes bleed, I want to choke every 14yo weeb when I see it. (yeah I get it, it's a JRPG, but there's a big gap between things like Phantasy Star 2 and The Weeb Ends with You or Weebsona 5 when it's literally high school anime level of weeb)

>>9684224
The Bromides are secret items that show you lewds of the girls if you use them. They do block inventory spaces tough which you have only a limited amount of. Later in the game you can buy recovery items including MP recovery items for free so you have to make a tough decision whether you will keep the Bromides and the Rememberizer in your inventory to rewatch the lewds whenever you want or if you sell them to make more space for MP recovery items so you can freely spam your best spells in the final dungeon.

>>9684263
so why not just google them and call it a day

>>9681323
SMT Nocture
Vandal Hearts
SRW Alpha Gaiden

>>9684236
>which one?
Trash dump? You have to go into the black area to get to a ladder.
>never tried those, a bit afraid I'll get filtered or they're a bit too complicated / with zero handholding unlike JRPG
Possible but you said you wanted challenge.
>was it supposed to be hard?
Easy difficulty on the first week is simple. It's not the hardest even on ultimate.
>I don't know whether it's better than them or not
They have a cult following, you sound like you're thinking about it too much.

>>9684341
>Trash dump? You have to go into the black area to get to a ladder.
ah, that one. that was easy. I guess the game was made for people like me, I'm obsessed about finding secrets and checking every area, so I knew the game would fuck with me since the dungeon looked empty.
>Possible but you said you wanted challenge.
yeah, I know. what I meant was that I'm looking for RPGs that definitely pose a challenge, but aren't "fuck you" level or total grindfest level. depth / mechanics is what's more important, but it needs good challenge too for it to work.
I mean, JRPGs are often piss easy with just an illusion of gameplay, but there's an opposite side of RPG with stupidly unforgiving games that just force you to grind and be lucky. like, if I wanted to just suffer, I'd play Eye of the Beholder, but I don't.
that's also the issue I have with roguelikes and dungeon crawlers, if they're just grindfests with no cool mechanics and bland dungeons then it's not my cup of tea.

>>9681323
We have very similar taste, I would tell you to play PSIV, Shin Megami Tensei (the SNES version has a PS1 remake), and if you’re only going go play ONE FF, give 7 a go, it’s the ocarina of jrpgs and everybody should absolutely play it. I’ll say this, I have a tremendously low patience for high fantasy games, especially ones with dumb overwrought dialogue (so most Square games), and heavily prefer sci-fi, contemporary and post-apocalyptic settings, and judging by your tastes, you might as too.

>>9681637
It really isn’t, that would be something like Dragon Quest III or V. He wasn’t wrong either, the only reason older FFs get so much praise is because the old guard needed something to distinguish themselves with after FF7 exploded in popularity, but FF6 is a very flawed game, and has one of the worst midgames of any big RPG I’ve ever played. Which is not to say it’s bad, it’s obviously a solid game, but it’s to even think that it’s higher in quality than the PS1 FFs is insanity.

>>9684435
>wanted to start the thread mentioning I just beat PS4
>decided not to to go straight to the point
>everyone recs me PS4
anyway yeah, your taste sounds similar to mine indeed, one of the reasons I liked Phantasy Star was because it broke from high fantasy stuff. though I'm somehow fine with Might and Magic 6-8, I guess when JRPGs do all those medieval towns and armor it looks extremely gay.
I will likely play FF6 sometime, but I got burned on FF4 DS, it simply turned out to be boring as hell. FF3 DS was alright, not great but not bad either, I dropped it eventually, but I guess if FF5 does same but better I might like it. and in general FF6 has extremely boring color palette, it's like they wanted to look as drab as possible.
>and if you’re only going go play ONE FF, give 7 a go
I was thinking of this, but it's simultaneously the most acclaimed JRPG and notorious for inspiring every cancerous "cinematic" element of JRPG. I'm kinda lost if the gameplay is actually good in it, or you had to be a horny teen exposed to anime and CGI for the first time in late 90s.

>>9684148
Wait for the Saturn translations

>wanted to try out SaGa series so decide to start from 2 on SNES
>think nothing is obscure in current year
>go to romhacking.com for translations
>2 unfinished translations, one from 2002, one from fucking 1997
ok, I guess it IS obscure after all. so what the fuck do I do now?
a) play the 2002 unfinished translation
b) try the android remaster
c) play a different one
I almost wanted to try Frontier, but it's so ugly, holy shit. I'm sorry, but it looks like some shareware from the 90s, the prerendered enemies and the color palette look ridiculous

>>9685020
Did you know?! There are no hidden gems and all worthwhile games have already been translated.

At least that's what retards on /vr/ claim.

>>9685020
All the SaGa remasters are good, so no need to really play the SNES/PS1 originals. If you want to play the original Game Boy trilogy (localized as Final Fantasy Legend), I'd highly recommend the remakes (1 on WonderSwan, 2&3 on DS). 1 on WonderSwan in particular has a crucial QoL improvement in that you can see what your monster will transform into before actually committing to eating meat (in the GB version, it's just blind trial-and-error).

>>9685032
I'm even more surprised that we're talking a game with a Square logo on the box here, not some turbo autistic eroge for PC-FX
and Romancing Saga was actually Square's 2nd biggest series in Japan after FF (not counting SMRPG and CT, because they aren't series)
then again, I guess if it was eroge, it'd actually get translated and talked about more

>>9685042
phew, thanks.
>If you want to play the original Game Boy trilogy (localized as Final Fantasy Legend), I'd highly recommend the remakes (1 on WonderSwan, 2&3 on DS).
actually another good rec, thank you. I was told that GB ones are nice for an intro, and since they were the first games I guess starting from the beginning doesn't hurt. but getting used to playing RPGs on GB's tiny screen was hard too.
I'm still surprised I somehow entirely missed the Saga remakes on DS. then again, I guess I'd get filtered anyway

>>9684395
>that's also the issue I have with roguelikes and dungeon crawlers, if they're just grindfests with no cool mechanics and bland dungeons then it's not my cup of tea.
Mystery Dungeon games tend to have interesting mechanics, imo. In the case of the licensed ones (Torneko, Chocobo, Pokémon, Druaga), they usually adapt some mechanics from the series they're adapted from. In the case of Shiren, each game tries some new stuff (1 has transformation via monster meat, 2 has monster catching, Gaiden has mon boxes which allow you to either summon the monster as an ally or transform into it, 5 has species loyalty through friendship licenses, etc).

>>9685020
SaGa Frontier is pure soul.
>>9685048
In general the west seems to abhor the SaGa series, regardless of how popular it is in Japan.

>>9683884
I clapped my hands every time I understood a reference.

>>9681323
personally, i love lufia 2 and shining force 1 and 2. let me start with shining force.

sf1 has some flaws. its still a good game, but there are some really tedious inconveniences (searching a chest puts items in main character's inventory. you have to manually give items away to other characters to hold so you can open a new chest. there are quite a few battles that have retarded choke points and/or massive forest/mountains to slow your movement to a fucking crawl. also some characters having retarded stat growth.) it also has a different style and feel to it compared to sf2. sf2 is significantly more refined. pretty much every flaw of the first game was fixed. yes, there are a couple of maps with raw desert, but thats like... 2 of them. everything else has mixed terrain and helpful pathways to progress forward. while almost every character is viable in both games, some characters in sf1 take SIGNIFICANTLY more work and tender care to become viable, and sf2 is a lot more balanced in that regard.

cont.

>>9681323
>>9685637
cont.

lufia 2 isnt particularly interesting for any sort of combat. its generic, with no real gimmicks, other than "take damage to build this 3rd meter. use some/all of 3rd meter to use your equipment's special ability". the story and characters are cool. where it outshines literally every other rpg, is the dungeon exploring and puzzles. some of the puzzles are actually really difficult. in a dungeon, there are no random encounters! you see the monsters walking around, and you can even shoot them with an arrow to stun them and walk by if you really dont feel like fighting (some rooms will lock doors until you kill all monsters though). there are tons of secrets to find. you can chill in a casino for a while playing casino games. there is a special bonus roguelite dungeon that takes all of your equipment and resets you to level 1 every time you attempt it, but can contain some of the strongest equipment in the game (found in blue chests, and you get to keep them (if you escape instead of die) and can bring them in again for future runs, giving you a stronger start)

>>9681323
Try the newest PSIV hack. It makes the game harder in a balanced way.

>>9682091
My only issue is that PSIV is easy, specially if you defeat a sandworm(not the quest one).

>>9685579
nothing can replace this series for me, it feels like despite all the frustration it piled on me that it gave me something no other games can provide
unpopular or not, I'll gladly wave its flag.

>>9681637
>No frequent random encounters
Magic School Lunar is one of the most bullshit games of all time in that regard. They saw that it had 10 hours of content at best and just went "Hitoshi, make fight come more so inflate time". That being said, I'm looking forward to the translation and hopefully whatever text hacks that chick had to make don't break the action replay codes to reduce encounters

>>9681757
Based Uncharted Waters enjoyer.

>>9681323
>good rpg
>good gameplay
>think Phantasy Star 2

>>9685172
>Mystery Dungeon games tend to have interesting mechanics
ok then this is good. which one is the best to start from? I see this series discussed once in a blue moon.

>>9686784
Shiren 2 on N64.

>>9683884
>I guess the real downside is you don't get the see the evolution of gameplay systems between games going forward so you can't appreciate why some would call IV the best.

Yeah that's one of my primary concerns. Like if I play 2 and then move on to 3 and 4 I'll appreciate the incremental improvements like someone who got to play the originals in order as they were released. If I play 4 first going back to 2 will probably seem like a regression of sorts even if 2 is still good on its own merits. It's unfair to judge older games by the standards of newer ones in the series but it's also hard not to. Maybe I'll just try 2 and see if it kicks my ass or not

>>9685637
>>9685643
thanks anon. should I just start with Shining Force 2 and skip 1?

>>9685653
>specially if you defeat a sandworm(not the quest one).
which one do you mean exactly? quest one = one from that ranch?

>>9684467
>it's simultaneously the most acclaimed JRPG and notorious for inspiring every cancerous "cinematic" element of JRPG. I'm kinda lost if the gameplay is actually good in it

The cinematics were heavily marketed but at the same time it was a relatively new thing and I don't think they had the time or money to make them extensive as they might have wanted to. There's quite a few of them but they're relatively brief. And there's no dialogue in any of them so they tend to be story highlights rather than the vehicle for delivering the story itself The plot is still mostly delivered through text boxes. As for the gameplay, it's pretty standard JRPG mechanics. Nothing revolutionary but nothing problematic either

For me what the game does most right is the world-building. There's so many places to explore and it seems like everywhere you go there's a new piece of materia or equipment or some plot detail or sidequest to justify your efforts. The game encourages and rewards thorough explorationa dn puts a lot of effort into details. My only real beef with it is the inability to moderate the encounter rate*which can get annoying but if you play a lot of JRPG's that's nothing new. I think the contrarianism surrounding it has grown out of control. YMMV but anyone acting like it's some pile of shit is trying too hard. It might be flawed but just flat-out bad? No. If it were it wouldn't be what it is.
Of course the only way to really know if it floats your boat is to play it and see for yourself just like every other game

*(I know enemy away exists, but you can only get it as a rare prize determined by RNG Jesus and it barely does shit until it's highly leveled and by that point it's late in the game and of minimal use. It sure aint no fucking moogle charm)

>>9686885
>Maybe I'll just try 2 and see if it kicks my ass or not
see >>9683943
if you really want to play 2:
1. get any patch to remove red screen flashing after every hit and increase walk speed. trust me when I say it's for your own sanity. my best rec is https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/925/ , it preserves everything about the game intact but fixes bugs, makes text more readable, and adds QoL improvements.
2. download a guide and FAQ for items / techs as they don't have in-game descriptions. picrel is a chart I've made for techs. follow the guide as it will clear out a lot of confusing stuff for you.
3. be prepared that even the first dungeon is already a maze and is pretty hard. fill your inventory with healing items and be prepared to escape the dungeon (via Hinas / Escapipe) when you run out of health.
4. starting from around the middle of the game, you will most likely have to map dungeons. for me, the breaking point was Climatrol. if you feel the mazes are starting to get too bullshit, download maps. I beat the game without them, but the 2nd half of the game is nightmare fuel in this regard.
finally, if you know you won't be able to play it, just play 4. it is a hard game and it will easily filter anyone who doesn't like old-school hard RPGs. 4 is Phantasy Star made for actual average player, 2 is for hardcore types only.

>>9686815
ok. but why that one in particular?

>>9686936
I'm playing it on the PSP genesis collection bruh. It's vanilla or nothing

>>9686934
alright. I started playing it. I guess I can't escape playing it anyway.
>There's so many places to explore and it seems like everywhere you go there's a new piece of materia or equipment or some plot detail or sidequest to justify your efforts.
ok this is good. I don't know why, but the pre-renders made it look like a game with no exploration, like you move on rails from screen to screen, in a very style over substance fashion.
and in general, you don't hear the gameplay of FFVII discussed that much for some reason, it's always graphics or plot, so this made me believe the gameplay was just mediocre.

>>9681323
>—Langrisser—it's on Genesis (I have a sweet spot for it), but I've never played tactical RPGs
Langrisser 1's story is okay but it's very engaging and way better than other TRPGs. Challenge is great. Langrisser 2 has a solid story and the best gameplay of any TRPG

>>9686954
>PSP
can't you install a Genesis emulator on it? I'm telling you you're gonna make the game 2x less enjoyable. the walking speed is too slow and the screen flashes red 3 times whenever you get hit.
anyway, if you can't play with a patch, I'd rather just hop straight to 4. it's a pretty different game from 2 anyway, it's largely about macros / skills / techs which are very different in PS2. I don't think you miss THAT much from skipping 2 anyway. but you do you

>>9686956
Well to be fair the pre-rendered backgrounds make it pretty obvious when there's an interactable object laying around because they look conspicuously separate from it but still, it's just nice that there's a lot of stuff laying around to interact with.

FYI, at first it might seem like the entire game is limited in scope to the steampunk city locale you start in but after a major plot point you leave the city and can start exploring the entire world. It's not all accessible at once but once you get the proper modes you can more or less explore freely

I hope you like it anon but it's almost impossible to predict anyone's response to it anymore. The game is such a monolithic entity in terms of its impact it it feels impossible to just see it for what it is anymore. It's just a fucking game in the end. I'm glad I'm old enough to have played it when it was first released and just absorbed it without the years of hype and criticism influencing my opinions pre-emptively.

>>9685651
you mean this one? https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/7113/

>>9686974
I never modded mine. I guess I could but I feel a little late tot the party as far as that goes and I always seem to have bad luck with that

And I'm an oldfag who grew up with an Atari and a C64, I don't feel as much need for qol improvements as some might. I tend to just play the originals as is, warts and all. It took me a long time to even start downloading stuff off the playstation network, physical copies just feel more correct to me. Old habits are hard to break

And in the end it doesn't really matter. If I'm not having fun I'll just put it down and play something else

>>9686989
>The game is such a monolithic entity in terms of its impact it it feels impossible to just see it for what it is anymore.
yeah, here I agree. with 20 years of console wars it's become impossible to get a straight answer about the game and have real conversation about it

>>9686904
he means the hidden one that appears when you leave one Infantworm alive when fighting a group of them on the overworld, the baby worm runs off and calls big momma:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re5ywux2kRA

Beating one of these monsters will earn you a ton of XP, so it's one of the best ways to power-level. Normally a tough nut to crack but it seems weaker in this video due to the author power-leveling before recording this footage.

>>9687001
Yes.

>>9687076
huh, didn't about that. thanks

>>9687085
I wonder if I should play it. on the one hand, I feel like a crave more of PS4, and it had a lot of missed opportunities, if it was a bit more balanced and harder it'd be amazing. but since the hack changes a ton of stuff, that means getting used to everything again, need to find the whole change list, and also I just beat the game so I'll see largely same stuff.
does it change the plot / game structure in any way or only changes techs / monster stats?

>>9681582
Lunar is one of the best jrpgs I've ever played. highest recommendation. one of the comfiest games and has some of the best moments. I don't want to spoil anything but there is a cutscene on a boat that if it happened in a final fantasy game people would be still talking about it to this day.

>>9687280
ok, I'm sold. but what's the best version after all? after looking at it, I thought Sega CD one looked most comfy.

>>9684045
I wish the other phantasy star games got this treatment. I also lack motivation right now to draw out a map. would love to have an automap like ages version of PS1.

>>9684265
why do anything? why play games? why not kill yourself and call it a day?

>>9687286
I played the PS1 version and it was perfect. I'm not super up to date on the lore but I'm sure some autists would tell you it could only be Sega CD. but I'm pretty sure before I played it I did some research and decided on PS1 but can't remember why.

>>9687289
I mean, it's just an item with a coomer pic

>>9686902
you certainly can. there is very little that connects them narratively, so you really wont miss much of anything at all. if you find that you love it, you can go and play 1 afterwards since it will be "more of the same" in a way.

just a minor note about some game mechanics: there is no permadeath. use the main character's "egress" spell to escape from an unwinnable battle and revive troops at the church. many battles have an enemy "leader" that if you kill them, it ends the battle then and there, but there is no real indication of which enemy it is (sometimes its a named character with a portrait, but sometimes not). you can egress early before finishing off everyone so you can "redo" the battle and farm experience. sf1 you can promote units at level 10, but you can push to level 20 before doing so if you like (there is a small stat decrease the moment you promote for some reason, but not in sf2). sf2 you can promote at level 20, but you can push to level 40 before doing so if you like, but pushing can be difficult because there are weapons that you cant equip unless you are promoted. you can search vases and barrels in sf2 and sometimes find hidden items. sf2 has actual secrets to find, if you're the type that likes to 100% things and doesnt mind using a guide.

i hope you enjoy it. the tactics are pretty straightforward and easy to pick up.

>>9686967
should I play L2 on MD or Der Langrisser on SNES?

>>9688892
Play either and lament that the Saturn version with added voice acting will never be translated.

>>9687286
Wait for the Saturn translations

>>9689614
nah, I can't emulate Saturn anyway
it's Sega CD or PS1