/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9606419
more like filtered general

>>9606419
What is the grindiest retro game? I've been trying to beat the first final fantasy for years and every time I play it for like a week, and then get so bored I just give it up. Definitely the biggest grind of a game I've experienced.

>Bad game design
ENEMIES
WITH
SHIELDS
STOP WASTING MY FUCKING TIME
GET OUT OF THE FUCKING WAY

>>9606470
You probably have a shit party. FF2 and FF3 are even grindier though.

>>9606419
Imagine getting filtered by Kid Icarus, one of the best games on the console.

>>9606419
Although I know I'm feeding a Troll: What the fuck is even this post?

EVERY game has grinding. You are either grinding levels, souls, weapons, playing the same segment over and over until you master, goals, points, hearts, HP, gold whatever the fuck else you can think of.

It's how games fundamentally work, like fr.

This game had you grind HEARTS to purchase ITEM.

Yeah I'm thinking it's a fucking video game with good game design and fucking BASED.

>>9606470
FF1 is beatable with zero grinding depending on the team. It's painfully boring but the balls to the wall 4 Warrior party is the fastest way to beat the game.

>>9606491
What kind of grinding does Tetris have? How about Castlevania? Gradius? Are you grinding when you play Street Fighter? What does the term mean to you?

>>9606484
FF3 NES actually doesn't take any grinding at all. It's all about picking the right jobs (hint: the right jobs are the ones you most recently acquired in almost all cases)

>>9606470
I'm playing this for the first time on NES right now, I havent grinded at all and I'm near the end of the game.

>>9606543
My party is Knight, Red Wizard, Master, White Wizard by the way

>>9606470
>What is the grindiest retro game?

Mother 1

>>9606562
It's not any grindier than Pokemon

>>9606419
i mean, the game is designed poorly, but not because of that
it's because it's pretty hard for the first world, and then becomes cake for the rest of it, especially the final level
and don't say it's because you start in the underworld it's still lame and a good way to not get kids to rent your game and just choose something else instead

>>9606562
not even remotely
you just need to do it at the start to get defense up alpha, after magicant to grind lloyd up so he'll survive the fart factory, and at the end for ninten to become level 25 for the dragon fight
yes it helps with ana too if you recruit her but you don't have to do that

>>9606562
I got to Teddy's area near the end of the game and aside from some grinding early on I just keep running from battles. The enemies are way too hard. So either you're right or the best option is to just run.

>>9606671
do you know the teleport trick? you can just crash into walls with that so as to not get encounters period, even in the cave system
helps to have psi stones on hand though

The real issue with it is that it gets easier as it goes on

>>9606651
Nah, OP is right. If you don't hit the first level up on stage 2, which will probably not happen if you just play normally and don't focus on making sure that happens, level 3 is practically unbeatable. It's poor design.

>>9606562
sorry but you clearly don't use psi well. compared to other nes rpgs mother 1 is pretty breezy (at least til mt. itoi, but even then that's nothing compared to ff1)

>>9606508
based ff3 chad
not too hard at all but definitely hard enough to where you feel engaged (hell I even love the final set of dungeons, don't need to be nearly as high lvl as people say if you know when to just run out of the dungeons to heal up)

was also the first ff game to incorporate theme in its plot as well as having a damn emotional score at times for a famicom game (also was the first ff game to use the fucking noise channel for music baka)

i'd go so far as to say that while dq3 is the more essential experience historically, ff3 is the better game between the two series

>>9606501
He literally said playing the same segments over and over until you master them. There really is grinding in jist about anything, Castlevania and Gradius you do it by getting better at the stage you're stuck on as you keep replaying it, Tetris you do it as you learn to clear lines faster and set up better for T-spins, and for Street Fighter every fighting game involves a grind to get good at them.

>>9606470
Try Dragon Warrior on the NES

Kid Icarus is not that grindy of a game.
BUT
You have to grind to get the best ending.

>>9606562
t.

>>9607963
>Mother 3 fanboy
Checks out

>>9606508
nah, you definitely have to grind for the final dungeon, the cloud of darkness is just a hard stop that basically requires you to reach a certain level

>>9608329
All you need is enough HP to survive a Flare Wave, which you will absolutely have at that point without grinding. Then it's just having the right job setup (again, the most recent jobs, so 2 Ninja 2 Sage) and you win.

>>9606495
Literally incorrect. It is definitely impossible to beat FF1 without grinding to some extent.

>>9606470
Personally I found Miracle Warriors to be insanely grindy and definitely not worth it.

>>9606419
You won't find low quality gameplay mechanics like that in a high quality video entertainment release like Floigan Bros. Episode 1, believe me.

>>9608729
based and floigpilled

>>9607431
Calling that grinding is idiotic and fundamentally different from a game where you are required to do something tedious in order to progress.

>>9606495
This is technically true, but you have to have RNG luck on your side. For normal people, it's faster to at least let a Red Mage tag along.
>>9606562
The only part I grind in that game is when I have to bring Lloyd or Ana up to speed. Screw Teddy, he robs Lloyd of precious experience and you have to know to use the breadcrumbs ahead of time or you're stuck doing Itoi's cave maze all over again, complete waste of space.

>>9608724
Check out the soundtrack for Miracle Warriors. The game itself isn't worth the grindfest of time.

>>9610217
*Anna

>>9610462
*Roid

>>9610168
Grinding is grinding, and any of the examples could be argued as tedious. The fact that replaying levels is considered tedious by casuals is why every modern platformer has infinite lives. And for Tetris and Street Fighter, grinding is very tedious, but you do it because you want to get better.

>>9607431
>>9610497
>>9606491
You're a fucking retard. It's called "practice". "Practice" is getting better at a game's mechanics until you master it and are ready to react to and tackle anything the game throws at you. Practicing at something like Tetris or Street Fighter will cause you to get better over time, just like ANY sport. Practice is sparring with your coach to become a better boxer. Practice is going to the batting cages and getting good at hitting any kind of throw.

"Grinding" is when you do the same damn thing over and over but see no increase in your overall skill, but the game makes you do it in order to continue anyway. When you go do the same fucking menial task over and over to make an arbitrary number go up in order to progress. That has ZERO impact on how good you are and is solely there to pad out game length. There is no difference in actual real life skill level between a level 10 FF player and a level 90 FF player beyond their ability to not die in one hit. Grinding is a high schooler dribbling 200,000 times and then suddenly they're a star athlete in basketball.
>b-but what about lifting weights or running laps?? it's the same thing!
If you seriously can't see the difference between getting physically stronger irl, and your virtual character getting stronger while you're still the same, you are seriously fucked in the head buddy.

>>9606470
Dragon Quest 2 or phantasy star 2 probably

>>9610970
But like real life the same stimulus doesn't give the same results. Getting to a higher level requires stronger enemies after a while just like longer endurance running and heavier weights are required for cardio/muscle gains. Don't know what the point of your argument is.

>>9611265
DQ2 is definitely not grindier than DQ1

>>9611378
Felt that way to me, but I played the snes version of both.

>>9610497
It's a game. You're meant to be playing it be you think it's fun. "Grinding" at Tetris to try and be good if you don't just plain like playing Tetris is pointless. So I guess you could grind at Tetris, but there would be no point unless you were training for a competition or something.

>>9611415
maybe that's why, I played Dragon Warrior I and II

>>9608348
With FFFF or FFFRM the only spots you sort of have to grind are the marsh and earth caves where unless you get lucky you'll likely have to go in once to get items then backtrack and another to finish it. Other than that it's a breeze. The party is strong enough that you can just go with mostly found equipment so you never need to grind for gold and they plough through everything else.

>>9612093
Yeah, no. Even if you don't grind your levels out, you will definitely need to grind for the necessary gold to buy spells and armor. I don't know when you last played FF, but there is no fucking way you did not grind to some extent. Particularly early game.

>>9612104
Yeah, yes. The whole point is you never need to stop to grind for money for spells and armor. It's the long established fastest way to get through the game, the meme is a meme for a reason.

>>9606470
Final Fantasy games are some of the most grind-free RPGs on NES/Famicom

>>9611378
>>9611265
That depends on which version you play. It's a little known fact that Dragon Quest 2 is more grindy than Dragon Warrior 2. Not only do a good half of the enemies give out more exp in DW2, but the majority of enemies were also rebalanced to be easier (lower atk/def values for instance), I intend to find out if there are more differences and document it all since the only thing documented is the exp/gold values. Possibly there are other differences too.

>>9612174
That should be pretty easy playing both side by side.

>>9612223
No, that is not a good method at all. It's an RPG and there is a lot of RNG

>>9612104
>you will definitely need to grind for the necessary gold to buy spells and armor

Weapons and Armor are found, not bought, and you'll have plenty of Gil for Magic, Pots, Antidotes, and Tents/Cottages just from playing the game.

>>9612118
>>9613069
Ok, you know what? Fuck it. This is now a Final Fantasy Let's Play thread. Four Fighters. Let's go.

I bought rapiers and chain mail at the start for everyone, but beyond that, I'm not buying a damn thing in terms of weapons or armor, and not doing a SINGLE fight that is not directly in my way. I'm in Elfheim now. I'll update you on when (not if, when) I fucking die. Keep in mind that even on the off-chance this happens to be true, it's still a monotonous way to play the game, and it doesn't change the fact that for other party combinations, namely shit that actually makes sense like F/RM/BB/WH you absolutely, 100% do need to grind somewhat. So the argument that "FF requires tedious grinding" is still true, and for parties like this, it doesn't actually make the game more fun.

>inb4 "cringe raw pixels"

>>9613184
>F/RM/BB/WH
That actually requires less grinding than what you're doing. BB requires 0 investment, F/RM get all their equipment from chests, and the only money you need to spend is on the worthwhile Spells for Red and White Mage.

>>9606470
Dragon Quest 1 is infinitely more grindy than FF1
and Dragon Quest 2 is even more grindy than Dragon Quest 1

>>9606508
>>9608347
FF3 definitely does require grinding for the final dungeon. I played it recently and consciously never ran away from any random encounter. I had to level grind for the Salonia boss and then again for Dorga/Inne and then again for the Dark World bosses. There is no way to get through this game without level grinding unless you use RNG manipulation or something.

>>9610970
People use the term grinding to refer to performing the same tasks in games over and over all the time, it is not an RPG exclusive word, That anon isn't wrong at all to say that there is technically grinding in every game.
>>9611571
Grinding can be fun for people, but yes typically for something like Tetris you're only going to grind the game for hours if you're competing in a tournament.

>>9610491
Ana is not a name in Anglo-America. Anyone who believes that's her name understands context and Japanese phonetics very poorly. But Roid is accurate enough, if you insist, since it's a Japanese joke name.

>>9613442
>not knowing the origin of "roidomegane"

>>9613378
>That anon isn't wrong at all to say that there is technically grinding in every game.
Yes he (you) is (are), you fucking autist. Any official definition of "grinding in video games" is going to relate it to RPGs, because there is a fundamental difference between grinding to increase a character's stats so he doesn't get killed in one hit by a boss, and """grinding""" to increase the player's actual real life skill at a game's mechanics.

But that's irrelevant to the point anyway. Let's say, for the sake of argument, we consider "grinding" in other games. Take a game like Zelda. This game is not an RPG. But if you want to buy a certain item from a shop, you will need Rupees. You COULD spend an eternity killing enemies to get enough Rupees to grab it, and that could be called "grinding" but theoretically, you don't need to do that at all. Nothing in the game requires you to grind, you can easily get enough Rupees to buy whatever you need, by the time you need it, by just playing the game normally.

That's not the same as Final Fantasy II asking you to get yourself hit a bunch of times to build up your defense to a respectable level.

>>9613542
>That's not the same as Final Fantasy II asking you to get yourself hit a bunch of times to build up your defense to a respectable level.

The game never asks or demands to do that, and it is not required either. As long as you play the game normally you'll do fine. You can beat the game with your party having less than 1000hp

These crazy things people say about FF2 are like people claiming you have to draw 100 of every magic in FF8, except the game is never balanced in a way that would require to do that, ever. Final Fantasy games are very grindfree experiences as long as you're not retarded, it's not like Dragon Quest at all in which there really is no other choice but to grind for 3-4 hours before crossing the next bridge.

>>9612174
>Final Fantasy games are some of the most grind-free RPGs on NES/Famicom
The marsh cave is the obvious spot everybody is talking about. You can't even survive the walk to the cave without gaining 5 levels and upgrading all your equipment, at a point in the game when monsters give barely any experience or gold. And even after all that grinding, you still will not have enough spell charges for any of the magic users to be useful because the first game's magic system is fucking retarded and people defend it for no reason

After that though the game is easy.

>>9613570
>As long as you play the game normally you'll do fine.
>as long as you play the game in a specific way, even though the game was literally intended to account for any combination or playstyle, you'll do fine

>>9613184
Yeah, most class combination parties that are more fun also require grinding. FF1 is broken though, Fighter is just plain more powerful overall than the other classes. By.contrast thief sucks and is the only class you can't beat the game solo with.

Anywho, have fun!

>>9613578
I never had to grind for the marsh cave, just backtrack once you run out of supplies then come back with better knowledge of the place acquired from your first run.
Dungeons weren't designed so that the player should necesarilly be able to go through in one go. Gulug Volcano being the prime example of that, even with 99 potions and a white mage in your party there is no way you can go through the entire dungeon, grabbing all the chests, and beat the final boss. You're going to need at least two runs.

I think you're applying more modern expectations to a Famicom RPG
When I'm telling the Final Fantasy trilogy are some of the most grind free RPGs on the system, I'm saying that because I have beaten around 50 of them. There are a few cases where the only grind (halt your progress to gain some exp/gold) will be at the very start of the game and then never again, but that usually still accounts for more than FF games really demand

>>9613512
>not being able to read "But Roid is accurate enough, if you insist, since it's a Japanese joke name."
>believes Ana is a white girl name in 80's America
ESL confirmed.

>>9606896
Ff3 better than dq3

This has to be the most pleb retarded thing I’ve ever heard

I’ve only played the snes version of dq3 but it’s on another level than ff3

>>9613378
>That anon isn't wrong at all to say that there is technically grinding in every game.

I disagree with this extremely strongly.

>>9613578
>>9614787
The Marsh Cave area and cave itself is 90% monsters that can poison you at a point in the game where winning a battle might not even give you enough gold to afford a single antidote. This is the game telling you to consider running from battles instead of fighting everything you come across.

>>9614908
I know a 40 year old white woman who grew up in America. Hey name is Ana.

>>9614908
I think the joke went over your head bro.
The official spelling of his name is "Loid" anyway.

>>9613442
>Ana is not a name in Anglo-America
What about Ana Gasteyer?

>>9615595
And then you attempt to run, but you can't. Then you try to fight, in vain, and die. This is the game telling you your evasion stat isn't high enough, therefore you must grind.

>>9606491
Every day I am surprised at how low the average IQ is in this board

>>9615730
Marsh cave area enemies don't deal all that much damage, they're dangerous because they poison you, which will kill you after the battle unless healed with items you can only barely afford at this point.

>>9606470
You only need to grind a couple levels at the start.

Now 4chan is arguing about the meaning of grinding.

>>9615968
Yeah and actually, many Japanese people use the term for fighting regular encounters in the course of your RPG playthrough, not just stopping your progress and turning in round specifically to gain exp or gold

so it can be argued

>>9614787
Yes, and they eventually moved away from this design starting with FFV, because they realized going through a dungeon multiple times with your friends playing D&D is a very different, and much more fun experience than doing the same thing in a single-player game. Of course, in Japan everyone was close together and calling each other on the phone to talk about the game, or walking to their friends' homes to play a singleplayer game together, but in the West that was not the case at all.

>>9615598
was she a devout christian with a missing mother for a year?

>>9615628
>Her maternal grandparents wereRomanianandGreek.
Don't think there's too much English heritage in those countries, anon.

>>9615598
I know you're not a zoomer and therefore you know what anecdotal evidence is. "Ana" is an extremely uncommon among English-derived culture, while Earth Bound on NES is representing stereotypical English-derived culture of America.

>>9615604
What's the joke, then? Also, what source are you referring to?

>>9616009
That's japanese people using the word for their own purposes. Everyone English speaking understands what grinding I games refers to. Do trying to change the definition so that it's broad enough that just playing Tetris is called grinding makes the original term pointless.

>>9613442
The United States is far more ethnically diverse than just Anglos and Ana is not an uncommon name spelling.

>>9616958
It's a little funny to see America as a purely English-derived culture when one of their defining moments as a country was having a war of independence from the English. There were a whole ton of Germans, French, Spanish, Portuguese etc etc that was kinda the point.

>>9617849
anon, the game is chock full of stereotypes of anglo american culture. she's literally a devout christian from a freezing small town in the east. call her whatever you want, i don't feel like arguing over one letter like that guy, but it seems likelier that the intent was "Anna".

>>9617861
The non Anglo places that tend to spell it Ana are also largely Christian... I don't see your point there.

>>9617963
well yeah, but i don't think many of them stay at churches like this.

>>9617857
independence from the crown, not the english as a whole. there were other ethnicities yes, but it wasn't out of caring for them or anything.

>>9617832
That's what I thought too, but then people ITT call Final Fantasy grindy and others call a game grindy because in the course of a dungeon they got 2 random encounters within 2 steps

>>9617963
Not in English-derived cultures. Read, man.

>>9617857
>the point of the Revolutionary War was to stop speaking and acting English
I just don't know how to respond to something this asinine, especially considering the nativist sentiment in America for the English language (and usually culture with it) for centuries since. Culture is not the same thing as rule, anon.
>There were a whole ton of Germans, French, Spanish, Portuguese etc etc
Allies in a war represent the populace of the place being fought over?

>>9617849
>Ana is not an uncommon name spelling
It is highly nonstandard, and therefore, not something a Japanese person would know. Hence why all official Japanese sources spell it "Anna".
>The United States is far more ethnically diverse than just Anglos
Moving the goalposts and getting away from the context: stereotypical Anglo-America.

>>9606419
>Ur thred got 'jacked anon
No you don't have to. I always found the first levels the hardest but it only enhances the sense of achievement in beating them. It also motivates me to move through these levels faster, not slower.

>>9618194
>Moving the goalposts and getting away from the context: stereotypical Anglo-America.

I'm not getting away from the context or moving goal posts, I am disagreeing with the base notion that America is as universally Anglo as you are saying. It's a less common spelling than Anna, but still used.

>>9618025
That looks very much like a Spanish church to me... I mean I get your point that it's meant to be a church in America, but America is a country of wide influences. It's why it gets called the great melting pot.

>>9618284
actually the church in the game is most likely completely wooden, both the walls as denoted by the beams above the door, and there is no mistaking with the rooftop. That style of construction for small churches is very American like, and your picture looks more like a chapel than an actual church (though it could be a very small one)

I'm not going to dive into the polshit debate with the other guy though and neither should you

>>9606470
Shin Megami Tensei If....

>>9618331
>>9618284
I actually can't find any photo of a church with beams on the frontage like that so I think it was added specifically by the devs for detailing, as an easy way to evoke wood (as adding details to make all the walls wooden, as in adding lines as details to show planks, would waste too many tiles)

ICARUS FIGHTS MEDUSA ANGELS
I played the shit out of this as a kid. That's the code that will do the needful

>>9613542
>Yes he (you) is (are), you fucking autist.
I'm not the original guy, but I agree with him. You're the autist here, losing your shit over the word grinding being used for anything other than boosting numbers within a game.

Yes, you can grind rupees in Zelda, grinding exists in those games. This isn't about mandatory grinding, its about grinding in general. You can grind in just about anything.

>>9618331
Yeah likely the church in the game would have been. I was just pointing out that American church design doesn't only rely on English churches and that some places that have churches like that also tend to spell the name Ana so it's really not that weird for a game set un the US. But I don't care about any of this enough to engage in a real debate on it.

>>9618457
Neither of them and I would agree about grinding for rupees is a thing because it's a collectable resource. But playing something like Tetris, Streets of Rage, Gradius, Castlevania 1, tecmo bowl, Space harrier, punch out etc etc etc don't have any real grinding. You could say practicing them is like a form of grinding, but you'd just be using grind Asa euphemism for practice which is kinda pointless and just waters down the other meaning.

>>9618861
Grinding is the act lf repeatedly playing the same part of a game to gain something from it, even if that something is skill at the game. It can be used interchangeably with practice, which still makes sense, because practicing is the same as training, and training/practicing is what your characters are doing when you grindn
encounters in an RPG for example. Grinding money even still makes sense, its a common phrase in English to say "back to the old grind" when going back to work on something after taking a break.

Grind is definitely an open kind of word that can be used for various things.

>>9618894
>Grinding is the act lf repeatedly playing the same part of a game to gain something from it, even if that something is skill at the game.

I know some use it that way, I disagree with that usage. Practice is better since grinding in things like RPGs is doing something boring to gain resources and is different. I see no reason to refer to regular practice as grinding. No one goes to shoot hoops and says they're grinding at basketball, it's called practice. It's a fine word.

>>9618189
NTA, but at the time of the Revolution, German immigrants made up 10% of the population in the colonies. Thats the reason that you have battles being fought at places with names like Germantown. I agree with you in the overall argument because the elites in colonial society were still the people of English descent.

>>9607658
I just beat that, and I really only had to grind money towards the end for flame sword and silver shield. I think I only grinded out a couple of levels once before that. I was expecting way worse given its reputation.

>>9618938
Try playing the NES version instead of whatever zoomie remake you played

>>9619073
I did. I played Dragon Warrior.

>>9618338
I got all the way to the final final boss and finally said fuck it and used a gameshark code to max my level

>>9619089
You absolutely HAVE to grind to a certain level to get a good heal spell to survive.

>>9619275
I didn't grind for healmore, specifically, but like I said I did grind once or twice for a level. I never said I didn't grind at all. Saving up the money for those equips was much more of a hassle. Especially since I died at least twice while doing so, and I was intent on not using save states.

>>9618894
>English to say "back to the old grind" when going back to work on something after taking a break.


That's for work though, not games. They don't say let's get back to the grind and then play golf.

>>9619603
Games can certainly be work, both literally and figuratively.

>>9620005
Kinda, but outside of typical grinding which is doing something boring and repetitive like leveling characters on random battles, the word practice fits much better.

>>9618284
>>9618351
OMG u guys still going full tard on this? There's plenty of info out there on the names of these two. Stop embarrassing yourselves

>>9618284
>I'm not getting away from the context or moving goal posts, I am disagreeing with the base notion that America is as universally Anglo as you are saying.
Then you are strongly misunderstanding. The notion used in the game is blonde, white, Anglo-American girl ("typical American girl").
>It's a less common spelling than Anna, but still used.
Irrelevant (since that's incredibly nonstandard in context), hence why you never see any spelling like that in any Japanese source. You are trying really hard to justify something so implausible.

>>9618919
The common people were, too. You had some German populations in certain colonies (then, states), such as Amish communities (iirc), as well as Irish and others in very small amounts, but there was no massive amounts of non-English and non-Scotch-Irish (perhaps Scottish, too, but I don't remember) before the 1800s. Just like most countries, the USA was a majority mono-ethnicity and culture in its beginnings.

That's why New England and much of the Southern states took pride in their English heritage and carried on a lot of English traditions (dishes, dances, etc).

>>9621121
*any Japanese source concerning this game (official source, at the very least)

>>9618894
Yes, grind, as in "the daily grind" or "studying the history of politics in x country is such a grind" refers to boring work. Basketball practice could be a grind if you don't like it - these words are neither synonymous or antonym(ou)s. Stop pretending they are.

>>9618898
Absolutely. You practice throwing darts and super mario because you become more proficient at game skills like hand-eye coordination this way. You DON'T become more proficient at any game skill when level grinding, the only change is to abstract values (the avatar stats) and the time you just wasted improving them.

>>9621121
Anon drop it. It is clear to anyone here that has a basic grasp of the facts that you are wrong.

If you feel compelled to post again read this first: >>9621067

>ppl still arguing itt about Ana vs Anna
The Japanese katakana is literally アナ (Ana). If they wanted to correct it at any point, it'd have easily been アンナ (Anna). Anna is nothing more than Gannon-ification. Anyone unironically arguing from the "Anglo-American" angle is giving the Japanese way too much credit.

>>9615065
Then your opinion is discarded.

>>9616038
Just because you had no friends as a kid didn't mean we all didn't. I went to friends houses after school to watch them play single player games, they came to mines and did the same. We always talked on the phone (and still do) about different strategies for overcoming some stuff in games.

>>9621208
So you're saying grinding can only refer to boring repetitive tasks? I guess when I'm having fun repeating encounters in an RPG I'll say I'm practicing then. I mean, by that logic no game has grinding because anyone could have fun doing it, so its all just practicing.

>>9621612
Grind is a term that was applied long ago by rpg enthusiasts to describe getting exp and gold. Eventually some started using it as a synonym for farming items.
You want to further expand the meaning and the community isn't accepting it. The actual meaning of the word grind has nothing to do with it.
Stop trying to make fetch happen.

>>9622053
>You want to further expand the meaning and the community isn't accepting it
I'm not trying to expand the word, people already use it commonly in place of practice. Hell, literally yesterday one of my friends said he couldn't play anything but smash last night cause he has to grind for an online tournament he's going to compete in.
The word has been expanded already for years.

>>9618919
>I agree with you in the overall argument because the elites in colonial society were still the people of English descent.
What a weird way to think

>>9606470
>What is the grindiest retro game?
Dragon Quest 1 / Dragon Warrior 1 on Famicom/NES (not any of the ports or remakes)
If you think FF1 is grindy then you might literally die from prolonged exposure to DQ1, so play with caution.

>>9606470
What party comps did you use? With a balanced party there should be no need for grinding at any point.

>>9621391
Just because you lived in a close-knit neighborhood doesn't mean we all did. I definitely wasn't within walking distance to any of my friends. And no self-respecting parent would let us ride our bikes out there.

Charging your parents' phone bill up the ass isn't exactly a compelling argument either.

>>9621612
I haven't bothered to read your whole exchange, but grinding in a JRPG is when all forward progress stops so you can walk around in circles doing non-challenging random battles for the sake of gaining EXP or Gold before you progress to the next area. In badly designed JRPGs, this is required at certain points do to extreme difficulty jumps or requiring you to buy certain equipment you have to save up for.

>>9621612
You are being deliberately stupid by operating in the wrong universe of discourse. While you are redefining these words, try redefining "intelligence". Anons might beleive you actually have some.

>>9622238
With the greatest of respect Anon, I would relocate to one that is, or better, be the local hero that brings yours together. It makes a big difference, otherwise it wouldn't be idealised in the media the way it is from children's TV on

>>9622238
Ask me how I know you were born after 9/11.

Fighting random encounters through the normal course of a game isn't grinding. There's very, very few RPGs I can think of that require going beyond just fighting the encounters the game gives you naturally to progress. Especially not FF which seems to be the big culprit in this thread

I had a friend who would run from 90% of encounters, hot a roadblock boss that destroyed him, then got mad that the game 'requires him to grind'. Since then I can't take RPG grind threads seriously and just assume people are retarded

>>9622238
Not him, but local calls don't cost money. It's unlikely his school friends would be long distance.

>>9621121
Like I say I don't really care about this, it's mostly just funny how bent out of shape over the theoretical ethnicity of a video game character to the point that you're upset the spelling of their name doesn't fit how you want it to.

>>9622558
Yeah, but you have brown skin, so I don't care.

>>9622423
I think some people legitimately think you have to stop and grind in FF1 because they're just that bad at RPGs. They think you need to buy every top piece of gear in every new town, they think you need 99 of every consumable item, they think that you have to reset if one party member dies... if you play FF1 that way you'll certainly be grinding away for hours at a time, it's just that playing that way is fucking retarded.

>>9622382
My entire point is that grinding is an open word that can be applied to various things, people have been using it like this for years.
There is no redefining happening here, its been redefined already, deal with it.

>>9622558
I'm not upset about her ethnicity (apparently you are, since you're the one disputing it). But thank you for admitting you're not even disputing my point and are just trying to bring up your gay politics into a discussion about the spelling of a name (I'm guessing because you have no argument for your fan-spelling of her name except "but whatabout other communities in America").

>>9622558
The girl in your pic is Brazillian, not American, you desperate fucking retard.

>>9622562
I'm mostly Scottish, sone Irish and some English, I have light hair and blue eyes also. But it's very telling that you immediately make that assumption.

>>9622625
I literally just find it funny.

>>9622685
Meh lol.

>>9622727
Post face.

Absolute worst example of this is Angband and Moria.
Those games are completely retarded when it comes to grind. At least in Nethack, if you have very strong knowledge of the game and some luck, you can speed through the game comfortably, though still having to make critical tactical decisions.

>>9622737
Sure! I'm in a jovial mood, I will gladly post a pic of my eyes if you agree to do the same. Deal? We can see who's more embarrassingly british looking.

>>9622748
Ok, you first.

>>9622761
Cool. Your turn, Poindexter.

>>9622783
>literal 50 year old Buffalo Bill
Holy shit bro, don't tell me to put the lotion on my skin.

>>9622808
Nice response, where are your eyes? Too embarrassed? I have nothing to hide.

>>9622814
Yeah, I'm not going to do that. Congrats at proving that you have sanpakugan, though.

>>9613225
What about 3? I thought 3 was the grindiest because it’s so long but the final boss wasn’t insanely above the rest so I don’t know.

>>9622827
>I thought 3 was the grindiest because it’s so long
What does length have to do with grind? You can have a 100 hour game with no grinding.

>>9622817
Ohh good golly! So it turns out the racist troll obsessed with name spellings is not going to live up to his word? I am flabbergasted! It's almost like you don't want to post your slanty Gook eyes and reveal you're just another shitty retard trying to stir the pot. Good talk, stay mad at name spellings, it's good for bait but you might want to work on the details better if you plan to keep it going next time.

>>9622727
>reeling in defensiveness
This is sad.

>>9622558
>you're upset the spelling of their name doesn't fit how you want it to
You mean how the incorrect spelling of the name is commonly used by many fans rather than the natural and official spelling of it (see pic here >>9616958 for it).

>>9622902
Post your eyes Ching Chang Chong. Or let me guess, you're another anon also obsessed with the spelling but you are a brown person posting in support.

>>9622919
No one is going to post their eyes like you, retard.

>>9622940
I know. That's why I did it. Because I know you're all either complete cowards or Korean AI bots testing trolling word salad. If any of you racist babies expect to be taken even slightly seriously you're going to have to prove you are both human and Anglo-Saxon. Because otherwise we both know you're either just trolls trying too hard or a literal bot. Either way your opinions are worthless otherwise.

>>9621262
I'm not the anon disputing about church buildings or whatever's going on there. If you're referring to the name spelling topic, what "facts" are you referring to? The natural and official spelling of the character's name in is "Anna".

>>9621347
>The Japanese katakana is literally アナ (Ana).
Appeal to isolation and ambiguity fallacy. Kana is not always used analogously to Latin characters or English phonetics. Context and official sources (like here >>9616958) are always significant and erase any ambiguity. Otherwise, you'd be arguing that Super Mario Sehtaa (セーター, not Sweater スエター (suetaa)) is the correct title for that NES knitting game and that Baacha Fighter (バーチャ, not Virtua ヴェーチュア (veechua)) is the name of that 3D fighting game series. But you wouldn't, as you know that would be gibberish.

These are just two examples of Japanese media using kana irregularly. Kana can be used irregularly and yet still intend to mean, in this case, Anna (as all the official sources write it in Roman characters that way). The official sources are not making a mistake with Roman characters (as I'm sure you assume), rather, you are.

>>9622423
What person called normal gameplay grinding? As you highlight though any player with poor strategy may find progress difficult and grind, or even a player just exploring limits of the game.

>>9622616
And that is, but isn't true. All language is nominal until two people or more want to have a conversation. If the meaning of their words differs the discussion is meaningless. Meaning is specific to context (grind in "real life" vs in RPGs). Are you too daft to notice?

So definitions may drift over time, that has exactly zero relevance here. It is that your stubborn refusal to speak in common terms puts you on the outside. So all the best luck if you want to use a common expression but apply a different meaning to it. You'll need it

>>9623001
>when everyone in the room knows that you are an idiot except you
No it isn't and try harder, if this is bait

>>9615747
That anon's clearly underage

>>9623165
The discussion on Ana/Anna is not as clear because Ana is a common variant of Anna in many countries, much less the game setting. But Roido (Lloyd) was a deliberate corruption of the real name as a joke, and was later reverted (or flat out changed) to the common spelling.

Perhaps Ana was the intent, maybe not. But it is a legitimate name, and the devs were clearly ok with changing the comps names later on. So who cares beyond that. Further deconstruction seems like faggotry in the extreme to me.

>>9613225
>and Dragon Quest 2 is even more grindy than Dragon Quest 1

out of curiosity, did you play the Japanese version?

>>9622402
>nostalgiafagging for shit times just because you were unaware then
ask me how i know you were born after the french revolution.

Loid is, as far I know, an L/R flip made by the early days of the Starmen.Net fandom, before Super Smash Bros. stickers/spirits codified the names. Japanese sources always called him "Roid".

However, I would argue that this name is a perfectly intentional juxtaposition from the character's appearance! You see, if you swapped Teddy ane Roid around, their names would be more fitting. Teddy gives the image of someone as soft and cudley as a teddy bear. Roid gives you the idea that this person has roid rage. But clearly, in the game, it is Teddy that is the steroid abuser and Roid that is the soft one. This creates a scene in which the two are diametrically at odds with each other. Indeed, one cannot have both Roid and Teddy in the party, because Teddy will dismiss Roid as a "weakling".This stirs up a sense of rage within our dear boy. While he does not literally succumb to roid rage from what we see, he nonetheless is rageful enough to plant a robot that isn't there when Teddy isn't in the party, steal a combat tank, and feign the party's rescue as he obliterates Teddy. This cripples Teddy into becoming a proverbial teddy bear, while Roid shows off that he too was worthy of his namesake in the end. After all, it was Socrates who said, “We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” Indeed, Teddy perceived of Roid as a "weakling" because he embodies qualities endemic to bullied children, and rather than take the high road, is fixed on his quest for the death of his parents and in turn as someone who is hurt lashes out and bullies the bullied. The truth is that the mountain monster who slayed Teddy's patents was unsuspectedly under his nose the whole time: Roid. It was Roid's robot that also did in Teddy's parents. He was also planning to destroy Teddy, but remembered that Nintendo and Anna did not wrong him and came up with a cover. Beware the silent ones, they say, or Roid will show his Rage.

>>9624291
Roid's emotional personality is annoying, you could say that emo Roid is a pain in the ass

>>9624291
Kek your under-ageness is being broadcast on all channels now...

>>9624176
It's clear by the context ("Ana" was not and is still not a common spelling in English-speaking countries and obviously not in Japan, either) and by official sources (which never spell it "Ana"). Why defend this and then call others faggots for pointing out the obvious?

>>9624291
>that block of text
>that starting sentence
tl;dr you sound like a faggot

>>9623165
>trying to school others that foreign loan word transliteration is tricky business
>meanwhile, romanization of Ana and Anna happens to be braindead self explanatory
>>9624606
>official sources never spell it "Ana"
suck my pic

>>9624158
It doesn't matter whether you are familiar with the newer use for the word or not. You tried to say the original anon was wrong, but he wasn't, that is the entire point of this argument. I don't even use the term grinding myself unless I'm running in a circle to gain exp or items or respawning enemies for some extra health/ammo in Megaman, or some other similar situation in other games, but I'm not going to sperg out over someone using the word in place of practice or other things.

If someone uses a word in a way you aren't familiar with or says a phrase you don't know, you ask them to explain and then you understand it. Its just that simple. Usually you don't even need an explanation and can put together what they mean just based on context alone.

I'm totally grinding this thread. This is so boring bros.

>>9624606
I didn't call anyone that but it's tempting to start with you. Instead of endlessly bulshitting, Google the naming statistics for the early 90s and cope

Seems only schizoids and minors left here to talk to but in case there is hope

>>9625113
No dude I joined later itt but if you mean >>9606491 yeah wrong

>>9624835
Knew someone would bring that up. That's Treehouse-tranny shit. Treehouse had faggot subculture pervading through it by then (instead of what it started out as: gaming experts who actually liked games and the people that bought them), see Alison Rapp for example, so they just inserted whatever Starmen.net autism they liked (yes, Starmen.net was openly promoted in Nintendo Power, a similar staff also working in Nintendo of America; not to Starmen has always been terrible, but it's a fucking fansite, not Itoi or Ape or Nintendo). I was around and playing this game and looking at fansites for it prior to Brawl's release, so this is not news to me.

Every source before Starmen (and other fansites it linked to) says "Anna," because that was the intention of the writers and marketers of the game. It also is the most natural rendering of the name in pre-Hispanic, rural (probably Southeast, based on Snowman's position on the map) USA of the '80s.

>>9626140
>They stole from Starmen.Net, they didn't just retranslate from the original kana!
>MEANTHEFUCKWHILE.

>>9620973
Yes. Grinding refers to repeating portions of gameplay that are repetitive, uninteresting, or unengaging for the sake of an extrinsic reward, like gold or exp or items.
Some people may enjoy those parts, in which case it isn't grinding for them, but there is usually a consensus on which games and parts of games are grindy. I hope I've satisfied everyone's autism with this definition.

>>9626778

At least some of those had passwords so you didn't need to start from the beginning everytime

>>9626778
>satisfied autists?
Anyone else following this thread would doubt that's possible. Thanks all the same.

>>9626140
Fwiw this does seem the most likely case. Once a misspelling is published it can be hard to go back, and is made worse by being a legit version of the name

>>9606419
There is nothing zoomers hate more than having to play the game they’re playing.

>>9606419
Maybe because starting with a 3 level vertical ascent is challenging compared to the basic essence of the horizontal platforming. I always wondered why that design choice. Regardless, such a flawed game but still 100% based

>>9625793
He's not wrong. Almost every game has grinding of some form, I explained it already days ago.

>>9627559
And it was clearly pointed out to you by the multitudes of anons here that you are the only one convinced this is the case

>>9627778
Because all of you are stuck on grinding having to have a specific set in stone definition, you won't accept it being used to refer to anything else.

/thread

>>9627896
When you use words that have had a specific meaning for a long time in a way that you personally think makes sense but no one else agrees on, you get this thread. You use that word to mean something that no one else understands, and then spend dozens of posts arguing about what the fuck you were even talking about and how you came to that conclusion instead of the actual topic at hand. Language can certainly evolve, but this thread was absolutely retarded.

>>9627896

>>9627923
>this thread was absolutely retarded.
Now this is something I agree on. I don't even know what the fuck the Ana/Anna shit was about, but it seemed just as stupidly heated as the grinding argument.

Im goanna go play me some Kid Icarus

>>9627169
Playing the game doesn't have to mean repetitively killing and respawning the exact same enemy over and over for an hour to progress to the next level. Final Fantasy 1 and Dragon Warrior 1 are the perfect example of this. FF1 allows you to consistently progress from start to finish without ever needing to stop and walk in circles for hours earning gold to buy the next set of weapons or spells (you CAN, but it's not required), whereas DW1 literally forces you to sit in one place killing enemies for 1-2 gold apiece until you've earned the 200 or so gold it takes to buy the equipment that prevents you from instantly dying if you start walking toward the next town.

>>9628030
Didn’t read
Sorry you hate playing games

>>9628094
I wouldn't call repetitively doing the same utterly mindless task like a factory robot "playing games." Timesinks are not engaging gameplay. There's a big difference between hitting a difficulty roadblock that you need practice to overcome and hitting a difficulty roadblock that you just need to spend 30 minutes pressing a button thoughtlessly to overcome with no increase in personal knowledge, competence, or skill of any kind.

>>9628123
Technically you can overcome any "required" grind in DW1 by learning RNG manipulation.

>>9628309
Now you're just being silly.

>>9626414
>whataboutism
Especially doesn't makes sense considering how established "Ana" was among fan usage (ie, at least a decade by then) versus Mother 3's terms which had just come out. You're still trying to make an appeal to isolation (from context). Every translation needs context, including from Japanese, especially when it's katakana of a etymologically-foreign word/name like Anna is.

>>9627162
Fwiw this does seem the most likely case. Once a misspelling is published it can be hard to go back, and is made worse by being a legit version of the name
Yep, exactly. Every contemporary official source of Mother 1 says "Anna", only, and the only natural and intelligible way of rendering that to an Anglo-American setting is "Anna", since that's how the name had always been written and taught to be written (again, hence why the Japanese people, who may use abbreviated or irregular kana for the purposes of stylization, colloquialisms, or quaintness (just as every other language, most prominently English, also can and does) always intended the name to be written as "Anna" in Roman characters). The best (CONTEXTUAL) evidence for "Ana", the Brawl sticker text, is a tertiary source at best (seemingly derived from fan romanizations that were ignorant of or just outright ignored of the official Japanese romanization sources) in contrast to every official Japanese sources, all coming from long before Brawl's English releases.

My personal opinion is that Anna's name is spelled in kana as アナ (ana) simply for (JAPANESE-ONLY) stylization purposes, but regardless of my opinion, the oldest official sources (which eliminate all ambiguity) all say it is intended to be written as the English name Anna, not as the nonstandard or non-English name Ana.

(1/2)

>>9628503
>>9627162
>>9624835
>>9621347
Another couple of well-known usage of irregular kana words intended to be spelled (or, in this case, also pronounced) besides the two previously mentioned here >>9623165 is the foreign-derived word Famicom (ファミコン famikoN) and the native-derived word sempai (せんぱい seNpai).

(2/2)

Still waiting for the faggot in this thread that told me how I didn't get that the spelling Roid (even though expressly I said I do dont dispute that spelling at all) to explain "the joke that went over my head" or to give me an official source for the spelling "Loid"

>>9628523
*to be pronounced (in the case of "sempai" only, I meant. Sorry)

>>9621347
>Anna is nothing more than Gannon-ification.
ExCUSE me, his name has been "Gannon" for several games straight in Japan since the beginning, it's only been "Ganon" because THOSE EVIL AMERICAN TREEFUCKERS tainted the Japanese with LIES and DECEIPT.

>>9628523
>(even though expressly I said I do dont dispute that spelling at all)
The only reason you refuse to do that is because *everyone* called him -Loid- before Smash, thus addressing it makes your faggy manufactured fanAna theory fall apart lol