/vr/ - Retro Games

>inb4 3d

>>8546294
I mean, yeah.

when people wouldn’t stop posting about it

>>8546294
This is when but it's not because of 3D. It's because it was the 90s and they thought too highly of themselves and what they could create.

when yuji naka wanted to make sonic adventure an RPG

Sonic 2. You just can’t beat the masterpiece that is the original. The best music, the best stages, the best character designs, the best special stages, the best enemies. All that went out the window when they changed Sonic’s sprite and added faggot tails

directly after the release of sonic r. that was peak sonic era in terms of characters represented and visual aesthetics

They could have had a decent exposure of Sonic when the sega saturn was still relevant on the east AND it would've salvaged the saturn overseas. But noo, gotta keep some space for that gay flight simulator.

the green eyes

>>8546286
they couldn't figure out Sonic Xtreme. that's when it first became obvious that Sonic in 3d is more complicated than quantum mechanics, and is the main reason why Sonic and Sega faded into irrelevancy

>>8546286
Story wise, I'd say after Unleashed, they stopped taking it seriously. Even though the stories up to that point weren't exactly high art, at least it felt like they were trying.

Gameplay wise, they never figured out a good 3d gameplay style. They closest I've ever seen was the fan-made Sonic Utopia.

>>8546286
I think Sonic Adventure 2 was when it started to decline.

Sonic Adventure had 3D stages plus a bunch of playable characters (fuck you, I had fun), as well as a really cool overworld with some exploration gameplay. Sonic Adventure 2 got rid of the overworld in exchange for just a menu that took you from stage to stage and it felt like a step backwards. Plus, it added Shadow, which was pure 90s edgy cringe.

After SA2 we got a bunch of turds basically until Sonic Generations.

>>8546353
I'd have to agree with this. With all their money they couldn't figure out how to bring Sonic in to a 3D world. This showed that they had no image for the future at HQ. It was the arcade deparment which carried them forward because it was Naomi that brought them the last console and the games there were on it. SEGA's home console department was fucked for years and couldn't muster creating Sonic for their next console, that was fucked up to begin with. Arcade started and ended the company, and yes I don't consider current Sega to be Sega.

Heroes was where I started noticing alot of problems getting in the way of my enjoyment.
The devs admit that they were understaffed and severely crunched, and I think this is where sega's unwillingness to delay games took root for the worse.

After they crammed so much soul into SA2 it retroactively sucked the soul out of all following games

>>8546426
Dumb fuck, that's not what I said. I said making Sonic in 3D is hard. Other companies would've struggled just the same

never.

>>8546286

When Sonic went edgy extreme instead of cartoony.

>>8546456
I doubt that. Sega has been under shit management for years at the time. Other companies would not be so bad and I'm sure Capcom could do it.

>>8546340
agreed,sonic adventure is when it started going downhill,i remember seeing the redesigns back in the day as a kid and remembered thinking i didnt like it,i liked amys redesign but who the fuck was big and cream? what the fuck is this chao shit?

but i was raised on fleetway sonic the comic so the stories in that was what i loved and the dreamcast stuff was cringe

>>8546562
cream debuted in sonic advance 2 so post dreamcast corpse

>>8546353
you couldnt have a fast moving character with a console that had shitty 3d capabilities and poor draw distance and texture load ins....its why 3d sonic skipped pretty much the entire saturn gen to the DC and even then it was just boost corridors

the tech for it has only just happened hence frontiers

>>8546286
Why are there 6 Sonic threads and why do all the /vr/ posters look like this

>>8546568
I’d argue they could have done it, but the design they went with was just fucking stupid. The fisheye lens concept was doomed from the beginning, and even if the game came out it would’ve been a slippy, nauseating mess. The Saturn could’ve had a fantastic 3D sonic game if they kept it humble and didnt overestimate what they could do. Would’ve been perfect if they got the traveller’s tales Sonic R engine, fixed the controls and made a short but sweet adventure that doesn’t bring the Saturn to its knees and is able to showcase sonic in 3D. They had something special there, fantastic visuals and a great engine to work with, but it just wasn’t meant to be

>>8546586
/vr/ just keeps getting worse
there are a few thousand games to touch on and it's only threads about mario, sonic, listing favorites, snes, or CRT. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER

fucker tries to make a dual orb II thread for weeks, goes nowhere. There was a yuna and bomberman thread, burried. There are so many fucking kids you can tell they weren't adults or live when this shit was out becuase they only focus on high publicity subjects and nothing unique or interesting.

>>8546586
unironically, autism

>>8546586
I would be more worried about the 8 mario threads (not counting indirect mario threads like the yoshi and dk ones). The amiga threads and hidden gem threads are the most worthwhile nowadays, I'm tired of eastern-developed games.

>>8546286
The exact moment Dr. Robotnik started to be called "Eggman" in America.

>>8546286

>>8546586
Not true. I look like this

>>8546286
When they released the same game 4 times
So it was downhill by the time Sonic 2 came out

>>8546525
That looks pretty cartoony to me.

>>8546336
Sonic 2 music unironically is nauseating.

>>8546286
After Sonic 2.

>>8546591
the saturn was really poor with draw distance lad,the amount of polys it could display and its hardware simply wouldnt allow it hence why Xtreme was cancelled cause even segas sonic team couldnt hack it.

and sonic r engine? on the saturn its terrible,you cant even see the 1st turn from the start line in resort island where as in the gems collection on ps2 you could.

why? the hardware of the saturn wouldnt allow it.

also sonic Rs controls are bad but once you master it they make sense,someone of late has remade sonic R in unreal but made the handing like how people say they want and it takes ALL the skill out of the racing,literally push forward to win making it boring.here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXomBxdrvts

the ONLY way they could of made a half decent saturn 3d sonic game was probs go the route of sonic robo blast 2,using doom engine tier magic to save on hardware resources

pic related

>>8546286
When Sonic X-Treme was cancelled. I feel that the decline in quality itself somewhat started with Adventure and Adventure 2, but they were still good, it's with Heroes where controls got slippery and it just didn't feel as good to play, though the real decline started with Shadow The Hedgehog and Sonic '06.

>>8546286

Sonic Adventure 2 was the last truly great Sonic game. Everyone knows this. Only faggots and contrarians disagree. You will not rewrite history.

>>8548208
sonic racing transformed,mania and heroes would like to disagree with you.

Heroes was both the last good and the first bad Sonic games. The Aventure games were good but flawed, Heroes is where the cracks really started to show.

>>8546495
Fpbp.

the series' decline was there since the beginning, it just took a while to really set in. Having multiple teams with competing ideas for what sonic should be started as early as sonic 2 & sonic CD. Introducing new characters every game was around since sonic 3, knuckles etc. Games being rushed out to hit marketing deadlines started with Sonic 3 being split up so they could make their McDonalds happy meal deadline. All of these are the things that ruined the franchise, and were present in some way in every single game. They just got away with it because the franchise was fresh and the good outweighed the bad early on.

>>8548179
SA1 and 2 were good, but they were hampered by the fact that there was still no blueprint for 3D sonic when they were made, whereas the kinks in 3D platformers for other characters had been ironed out in competitors franchises. By the time SA1 was out there had been 3 Crash games refining the same formula, Mario and Banjo building off of the same idea and refining it, and Sega were playing catch up. By the time SA2 came out they were competing with stuff like Jak and Ratchet whose teams had already nailed the platforming aspect and were able to get more and more ambituous with how they used it, while sonic team were still in the process of tweaking and refining their style. Then the dreamcast died and they had to start making games for multiple unfamiliar consoles at once and they never really recovered.

How has this series remained relevant for so long? What has sonic done to grab the attention of zoomers to the point where there was a recent movie and everything? 3+K was the last one I seriously played, and I remember playing the demo for adventure and thinking it was shit and assuming that was the end for sonic.

>>8548514
It's a boomer nostalgia series, everything successful has been based on Genesis era Sonic (Generations, Mania, movie)

>>8548147
Saturn has the best capability for draw distance. Vdp2 can draw multiple infinite planes while vdp1 can populate that playfield with polygons

>>8548147
>>8546591
N64 3D Sonic game when?

https://youtu.be/CP9dkwr6d_Y?t=57

GREAT SONIC GAMES
1, 2
REALLY GOOD SONIC GAMES
CD
ACCEPTABLY GOOD YET SOMEWHAT FLAWED SONIC GAMES
3, S&K
ABSOLUTE TRASH SONIC GAMES
The rest

>>8548147
Saturn Sonic R also has an annoying glitch where you lose chaos emeralds if you pick them up in the same turn you face the challenge race because the victory screen bypasses the emerald screen and it doesn't save unless you view the emerald screen. Retarded glitch. This was fixed in the PC port and in the gems collection port.

>>8548654
its a test area with barely anything around and what is there is just a flat empty horizon.

sonic is reduced to a crawl,this mod just destroys what makes sonic sonic and makes him into a mario reskin which is easy.

also whoever made this sits upon a quarter of a century of programming knowledge and understanding and powerful computers to compile code that the original devs 20 years ago didnt have.

sorry but though your video is flashy...it is not fun,if that game was released back then it would of been labelled a mario 64 clone and laughed at,sonic goes fast and he isnt going fast cause the hardware couldnt allow that hence why its zoomed so far in and going so slow to keep the fps stable lmao.

>>8548514
zoomers had some decent games to get attached to the series in early 2010's but thats it. Sonic is simply a powerful brand and when its doing something cool everyone wants to see it (at least in the west)

>>8548669
I wouldn’t say sonic 1’s a great game. I mean remove every level other then green hill zone and starlight zone and then you can call it great. But now it’s a good game with flaws. Now mania!

>>8548514
Well, it has a trilogy that was critically aclaimed in the early 90's, so that alone already created a huge and loyal fanbase, also we can't forget that we're talking about the face of Sega at the time and even today, the company that back then was the only one who rivaled Nintendo in the west, this alone makes Sonic a timeless icon of the industry for anyone that grew up and got into video games at that time, which is a lot of people. After that he made the jump to 3D on the Dreamcast, which was a console that many appreciate to this day, and while the Adventure series has a mixed reputation nowadays, at the time it was popular, with high scores on reviews, and with a new wave of fans. After that he became multiplatform, with the Adventure titles ported to the Game Cube, and the Advance series developed for the Game Boy, it's very common to see Sonic fans that didn't grow up with the Genesis, but instead with the early 2000's titles on Nintendo consoles, so that's yet another huge wave of fans that the series got. Of course, after that came the decline, with Shadow The Hedgehog and Sonic '06 being what many though to be the end, something the series wouldn't recover from, but it did with Unleashed, which had a mixed reception, but a solid foundation in the boost formula, which many adored, and they built on that foundation with Colors and Generations, so again we had a new have of aclaimed Sonic titles for a new generation to play and become fans of the character.

So we have a franchise that took over a decade of solid released to get its first truly bad main series titles, and also released more solid titles after that bad phase too, there were many different moments in which Sonic did well, never quite like the original trilogy, but well enough to get new fans, and the thing about Sonic is that once you enjoy one of his titles, you see that the potential for greatness is there, so people stick around to see what comes out of the series.

>>8547142

That’s because it’s a transition from classic Sonic to the Sonic Adventure one we know now. It’s like a prototype.

Bump

>>8546286
>When did the Sonic series start to decline?
When people made non-stop autistic posts about it on Japanese imageboards.

>>8546720
Debatable

>>8546286
When Sega realized Sonic could be their mascot instead of superior Alex Kidd

>>8549802
I’m sorry, who?

Bump

For me it was around when Colors came out. At least the games that sucked ass before it had some soul.

>>8548514
Sonic is an autism lock in. Once you see it you're locked in for life.

>>8546525
I have grown a bit of fondness for how serious the Adventure games tried to take themselves, but even as a kid i saw the style transition as very repulsive.

>>8550256
As a sonic fan, this is true.

>>8546286
yesterday

>>8550256
>>8550327
Can confirm.

>>8550782

Bump

1993

>>8546286
"Decilne" implies it was ever good to begin with and not just a soulless clone of Mario designed to trick dumb Westfags into buying an inferior system instead of the SNES.

>>8548258
Only one of those games is truly great

>>8548669
How is S3&K any more flawed than Sonic 1?

>>8552637
That’s what I’m saying!

>>8552616
The only reason people bought a sega Genesis was BECAUSE of sonic! Yes the genesis had other games, come on admit it you probably bought sonic as your first game for it!

>>8552669
I wasn't one of the special needs kids so I had an SNES, not a Genesis.

>>8552675
Ah, you slipped through the cracks, i understand.

SA2 was honestly beginning of the end.
These chimps need to quit acting like 3D was the worst choice when literally everything that was recognizable was taking this route. 3D blast was garbage, but a somewhat necessary. Going to SA1 was for all intents and purposes a different direction. Not saying the best but it was different. Going into SA2, they literally removed everything thay was interesting and decided Shadow was somehow a better reasoning of character development when the whole Emarld and Echidna clan thing was scratching the surface of Mobius lore if you didn't really keep up with the comics. It could have been on interesting lore levels of Megaman X.
Like how the regular and X series are separate timeliness but also could be connected in loose ways. I think Adventure could have went that route. Which they more or less did with Generations.

>>8552675
Great, now take this and get out!

Bump

>>8546597
This

>>8552616
>inferior to SNES
lol no

>>8553502
There the same picture?

>>8552675
>didnt experience both in his childhood
condolences, anon

>>8553502
Man, Traveller’s Tales did not give a FUCK about the SNES kek

>>8552675
Cool kids had the genesis and games to play with friends. Very few people had SNES.

>>8552813
>Going into SA2, they literally removed everything thay was interesting and decided Shadow was somehow a better reasoning of character development when the whole Emarld and Echidna clan thing was scratching the surface of Mobius lore if you didn't really keep up with the comics. It could have been on interesting lore levels of Megaman X.
That's actually an interesting point. I kind of always accepted the addition of more and more characters every game as sort of a natural Sonic thing, but they could have totally made the the series focused more on the actual backstory of the Sonic characters instead of pumping in new characters every game.

>>8553750
Man imagine if sega made prequel games that are more lore based! That would be awesome!

>>8546316
I hate when people say
>sonic in 3D is a mistake and can’t work

It can, they just have to rework sonics
mechanic because sonics all about going fast.

>>8547181
>Sonic 2 music unironically is nauseating.
>chemical plant zone exists
holy shit actually go fuck yourself.

>>8547181
Genuinely cannot comprehend being enough of a faggot to think this
What do you listen to, some trash like rap?

>>8546336
>they changed sonics sprite.
>sonics sprite barely changes between the 2 games.
I can understand the tails complaint but sonics sprite change is completely stupid.

Bump

>>8554449
The highlights on the sonic 2 sprite make him look bulbous and plastic

>>8556592
not on a crt as intended

Sonic's reputation was the casuality of the poor dynamic between Sega of Japan and Sega of America.

Basically, America knew what it was doing and Japan just wanted to shift the series into Final Fantasy garbage.

>>8546353
> Sonic in 3d is more complicated than quantum mechanics
I don't think 3D sonic is that hard. SRB2 is an example of what 3d sonic should be. Imagine an alternative universe where that game was released on the Saturn.

>>8546286

>>8558712
>SRB2 is an example of what 3d sonic should be.
no

>>8550237
Same, colors/generations was when the "self aware" era started and the franchise lost most of its soul

>>8559373
SRB2 is literally the best sonic game ever made. Probably one of the best games ever made in general. (Well at least it was before they ruined it, 1.09.4 forever)

>>8546286
>When did the Sonic series start to decline?
Sonic 2. Precisely the moment when they let mericans noobs onto the development team. Sonic should have stayed and died with dignity in japan.