/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8413648
Never understood this criticism. WW feels barebones, but incomplete? How?

>>8413648
Because it was incomplete. Apparently a bunch of dungeons in TP were supposed to be in WW.

They forgot to replace all the water with actual interesting stuff.

>>8413660
You mean all the interesting stuff that happens on the water and prevents sailing from being dead time?

needed 2 more dungeons and one more town island, at least

>>8413648
Thats because it wasn’t finish, rushed through the door because the Lamecube was floundering. Hence the fucking triforce hunt instead of dungeons

>>8413648
My favorite Zelda game.

>Hey Link I know you were expecting a dungeon but uh my kid has a thing and so yeah he's the pearl. Okay see ya!

>>8414232
honestly thank god, i hated jabu jabu and did not want another vore level if this fucker is involved

>>8414232
I definitely got the feeling the whole thing with his island being destroyed by the time you got there felt like they were indeed going to have something there, including a dungeon, and they ran out of time and decided to axe it and made up some bullshit about Ganon destroying it.

When you're finally on land in Hyrule (in color), it would have been cool if it was a second chapter.
I still maintain the ocean water being opaque is an horrible look, it's a flat shade of blue and I get what they're referencing and whatever, it still looks like shit, should have been semi-opaque with cartoon foam ripples and glow highlights sort of like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwdwOhPWaJM

The game was rushed and they had to scrap a couple of dungeons and some had some collect-a-ton side-quests.

The game was infamously rushed. Pathetic amount of dungeons

Welcome to the story of the GameCube, where the system lacked a flagship Nintendo franchise game for 2 years.

This is where Starfox Adventures spawned from, basically forcing in Starfox on an otherwise non starfox game, and why sunshine + Windwaker got rushed.

whatever could have given you that idea?

I’ve heard that the ice island and fire island were supposed to be proper temples at one point. You’d think the HD remaster on Wii U would have been a good opportunity to flesh them out.

>>8414616
>You’d think the HD remaster on Wii U would have been a good opportunity to flesh them out.
i actually expected that and was surprised when they didn't do that

>>8414161
no? you spend just as much time sailing around as you do finding interesting shit and all the interesting shit is canon shit the game literally points you towards and everything optional is total bland filler islands with borderline nothing on them besides maybe a singular copypasted combat arena in a hole somewhere

>>8414313
the fact that it shows you the vastness of hyrule with all kinds of trails and different locations all inaccessible in the background always came off as straight up slimey to me. like nintendo knew that the rest of the game at that point would be mostly godawful filler so they use the idea of getting to explore more of hyrule as some kind of bait to keep you playing then when you finally do all you get is one linear trail to a mediocre mini dungeon then the ganon fight then role credits. what a sham.

>>8414595
>all the shit on the exact same row on the map

>>8414323
Majora's Mask's temples:
>Woodfall
>Snowhead
>Great Bay
>Stone Tower

Wind Waker's temples:
>Dragon Roost
>Forbidden Forest
>Temple of Gods
>Earth
>Wind

I left out pseudo-dungeons like Ganon's Tower/Inside Moon, but MM has even less and doesn't receive as much criticism

>>8414682
i think it's because mm feels like a complete package whereas with wind waker it seemed obvious that it was rushed out the door. still love wind waker though

>>8413648
Because it obviously was.
You get Nayru's Pearl for free, and the second half of the game is a fetch quest.

>>8414682
It's well known that MM was made in a really short time. A huge amount of the assets are recycled from OoT. The difference is that its content isn't full of holes.

>>8414682
Majora's Mask was made in a short time period while cramming in as much material into that world as possible. It was compact and every yard seemed to have some kind of side-quest attached. Majora's Mask wasn't held up by its dungeons (which were good) but through all extra good stuff it had.
Wind Waker has about the same amount of dungeons as Majora's Mask but the dungeons are worker and the overworld is much sparser without the interactivity and attention to detail that Majora's had.

>>8414682
Majora's Mask was made in a short time period while cramming in as much material into that world as possible. It was compact and every yard seemed to have some kind of side-quest attached. Majora's Mask wasn't held up by its dungeons (which were good) but through all extra good stuff it had.
Wind Waker has about the same amount of dungeons as Majora's Mask but the dungeons are weaker and the overworld is much sparser without the interactivity and attention to detail that Majora's had.

>>8414616
>>8414625
I remember reading somewhere that the devs thought about adding the dummied out dungeons to the HD remaster but decided not to so they could mostly stay true to the original release

>>8414682
I don't know why people think this is a good comparison.

>>8413653
Not him, but
>First Zelda where Heart Pieces aren't properly hidden through the overworld - a solid chunk of them are just treasure maps
>The overworld especially just seems half-baked and incomplete. While 42 islands seems like a lot, you quickly realize how many have nothing on them or just one reason to go there and never return
>Fewest dungeons in the series asides Majora which was confirmed a quick development cycle and they're all short as hell
>Fewer usable items than any other title, what's there is pretty sad and pathetic. An item slot dedicated to the Iron Boots which somehow do less in Wind Waker than they do in OoT, a camera, a looking glass and the Leaf which is barely used
>A lot of the game just seems poorly thought out, like having to switch wind direction every time you want to go another way
>Like that anon posted, Jabu Jabu just hands you the Pearl

>>8414902
ww fanboys crying about how twilight princess only uses its items in the dungeons theyre in has always baffled me. ww wasted two whole ass item slots on shit you literally use ONCE

>6 reefs
>3 triangle islands
>3 archipelagos
>5 fairy islands
>Greatfish Isle
>the assorted One-Note islands like Crescent Moon Island and Islet of Steel that I'm not even going to bother counting.

>>8414897
what a bullshit excuse. literally nobody would be disappointed by wwhd having extra dungeons. they really just wanted to tack 1080p and bloom on the base game then rake in the dough from dumbass weebs who think its the best game ever cause the artstyle is kawaii and its full of lolis

>>8414942
>>8414897
Pretty sure what was actually said was that all the cut content from wind waker was eventually cannibalizing into future zelda games.

Iirc people cite the Gordon mines and lakebed temple in Twilight princess as examples of cut content from wind waker, being the fire mountain temple and nayru pearl temple respectively

>>8414942
Only Nintendo could be so egotistical and retarded
>Wow, nobody fucking bought the Gamecube or Wind Waker
>what should we do to sell our new console the Wii U
>MAKE WIND WAKER THE BIG REASON YOU WANT IT

This game was a lot better when I was a kid and had a random memory card from a garage sale that had already completed the game, just sailing around place to place listening to the music and finding new areas not knowing where to go

>>8415008
tbf ww went from underappreciated in its time to severely overrated around the time of wwhd's release so i think it was a technically smart move on nintendo's part

>>8414645
The Hyrule Castle was so great and then the trails, what a tease, shame people blasted the cartoon look and we didn't get any sequel (in land) instead of staring at flat shade of blue on a dinky boat. They really trick me, I thought wow there's more to play here.

>>8414897
Stay true while inserting a full layer of neon nuclear bloom and messing the cartoon shading completely.

>>8414912
Which?

>>8415079
the power bracelet but thinking about it you do use the iron boots in the wind temple (its a totally superficial use but none-the-less) but even so ww has the same problem tp has in that regard. the skull hammer is another example not to mention just outright useless shit like the diamond shield thing that doesn't let you attack which would be the entire point of an item like that, especially since the game makes you do an elaborate sidequest to even get it. not to mention just other dumbass shit like how three inventory slots are just used for other inventories for collectables when all that shit could've obviously just been displayed on the sides or in another section of the menu like oot

>>8415085
That's true. Weird how OoT & MM did 3D Zelda inventory the best

>>8415085
Christ. I forgot the island decoration items.
What a waste of dev time

>>8415218
the best part is how you couldn't even put them where you wanted and they're only in one part of the game. windfall island in general seems full of half-assed concepts in a game already brimming with them

I wish the giant octopi would respawn and be randomized. Feels bad to clean them off and never have such an encounter again.

>>8414313
>When you're finally on land in Hyrule (in color), it would have been cool if it was a second chapter.
This, it really needed a few dungeons, though I'm sure some would have called it padding.

>>8414897
Corporate bullshit. They considered it and were turned down by the higher up who just wanted to resell the same game without spending more money on it.

>>8414682
MM is choke full of side quests though. WW has some but spread very thin.

>>8414942
>the artstyle is kawaii and its full of lolis
Which is true. Link's sister is so cute not to mention Link himself. Zelda once in robes is pretty great too, her dodge and running animations she has in ganon's fight are absolutely adorable.

>>8415072
It got two sequels though.

>>8415006
>Fire Mountain Temple
Wow they were really gonna rehash a fire themed dungeon two times? Talk about lazy.

>>8414645
Always tried glitching into the unexplorable parts of Hyrule as a kid. They really blueballed us there

>>8414682
Mm was made in 8 months we was 4y ears

Wind Waker also give us Toon Link syndrome where every game that isn't a main console 3D title has to be fucking cartoony which in turn diminishes the uniqueness of WW Link. Now you got a dozen Links who look the same.

>What we have to design a new Link? NAH LETS JUST SLAP ON WW LINK AND CALL IT A DAY!

>>8416565
Yeah, for the DS. They just used WW as a basis cause the art style is so easy to recycle for games they probably consider non-essential filler to keep some of the fans appeased between 3D console titles.

>>8416507
literally the only interesting part of the entire sailing mechanic. they could've done so much more with the enemies to make the ocean seem as vast and frightening as it actually is but the krakens are the only proper example. the other couple of enemies the game occasionally throws at you feel like filler designed in two seconds cause they realized there was nothing to do in the boat and so just implemented a couple basic distraction enemies that usually just require a jump or dodge and that's it

>>8416620
blame ww fans for crying about tp link for being "edgy" (ie not muh smol bean shota linku) even though he's borderline indistinguishable from oot adult link which probably made nintendo think zelda fans only wanted young link in everything. i'm surprised we didn't get toon link in botw considering how relatively similar the whole cel shaded look is

>>8414616
The fire island “”””””dungeon””””” is so infuriatingly bad. Literally just a loop around a mountain with a pressure switch

That’s it. That’s the whole dungeon

>>8416965
Botw's art style is clearly a compromise between ww, tp and ss

>>8417683
i don't see any tp resemblance

>>8414682
Because people like to make excuses for Majora's Mask, as if management forcing a short development cycle means we can/should excuse less content. Not saying either have a good amount of content, but people shouldn't excuse Majora just because of a shorter dev cycle. They shipped the product, and charged full price for it.

>>8417807
Majora's Mask has just as much to do as Ocarina of Time despite fewer temples thanks to all of the sidequests.

>>8417747
Muted colours, a lot of dull browns and greens for the environment.

>>8417829
I'd argue that it has more to do

>>8417838
so like oot

>>8417807
feels like you're just saying this to pass the buck to mm when ww is a much more apropos example anyway with how it took four years to develop and yet only has slightly more real content than mm

>>8417838
>botw
>muted colors
wat, it's no skyward sword, but still. It's even more colorful than wind waker.

>>8417912
In some ways, yes, but the overworld is mostly as dull as TP in my view

>>8417848
I'm not saying that at all. I just don't care how much time was spent on making a game. All I care about is the end product itself.

>>8416940
the ghost ships had soul

Why aren't there any actual islands. I get it, it's supposed to be barren and it's not like the little islands are the worst, they're like your standard AlttP cave, some maybe a little more, but the fact there's like three landmasses in the game is what dissappoints me the most. I like the actual sailing and sea combat to a degree but there's absolutely nothing to explore besides Link's home island and Hyrule maybe. The rest of the "big" islands are hubs for dungeons.

>>8414682
Forgot to mention Majora's dungeons have inter connection with their gimmicks, and are some of the best dungeons puzzle-wise in the series, whereas Wind Waker are arguably along Twilight Princess the most paint-by-numbers.

>>8419115
Until you get to board it, then it's just an other ship, all the mystique suddenly vanishes.

>>8413653
there are atleast two whole entire dungeons missing. ocean is empty and what little islands are available are very small with nothing really going on. all of this would have been forgiveable if you were able to properly explore the land underneath the ocean but even that was half-assed. WW is wasted potential: the game

>>8414595
>when you try to make things so random that it becomes predictabo
many such cases

>>8419424
Can't you just crawl over landmines and pick them up without taking any damage at all?

>>8414653
>>8419424
Added bonus: one of the squares the Ghost Ship can spawn on is ALSO in that row.

Wind Waker is the most padded Zelda game prior to BOTW.

Who else expected the Ghost Ship to be a dungeon? instead it's just a copy pasted regular ship but reskinned into a spooky theme.

Fucking disappointing. What was Nintendo doing for four years when making this game???

Wind Waker has no flaws, and none were given in this thread.

>every criticism of a Zelda game ever
>"This does not meet my completely arbitrary and totally pre-conceived notions of how a Zelda game 'should' be, so I don't like it."

The true gigachad take is understanding and embracing the fact that every Zelda game is special in its own right. The thing you like the most about your favorite Zelda game are probably unique to that particular Zelda game, to an extent that you might dislike other Zelda games for not having the same shit—but the fact that Zelda games don't typically have the same shit is why the series is so great in the first place. It's the only thing tying all the games together in general. It's the only thing any of the games It's the least formulaic of Nintendo's flagship franchises and it should be celebrated for that, but instead, it gets routinely lambasted by everyone for not making the same identical game every year. The irony, of course, is lost on everyone. You're all dumbfucks and I hate you all.

>>8419665
>It's the only thing any of the games
*have in common.

Like, complaining that a Zelda game doesn't have enough dungeons or whatever is so silly to me. Why does a Zelda game even need to have dungeons in the first place? It still feels like a grand adventure, and a lot of it has to do with the huge amounts of downtime (sailing) between islands.

>>8419665
>The true gigachad take is coping
soi

>>8419703
Coping with what? The fact that Zelda as a franchise has more totally unique games under its belt than literally any of your favorite franchises, which just rehash the same bullshit every single time?

>>8419717
>just enjoy what you have bro, to hell with criticism
this is cope

>>8419724
But what you're not understanding, you stupid fucking cunt, is that I never said that anything like that.
Criticism is fine, but criticism, in and of itself, can be criticized, because not all criticism is valid.
My point is that it's stupid to criticize Zelda games for not being more similar to the Zelda games that you personally enjoy, because the whole conceit of the franchise is that every game is unique. Of course you're gonna have your favorites and least favorites. This should be everyone's favorite thing about the series.

>>8419665
>>8419747
kys faggot.

>>8419821
Looks like I win, how unsurprising.

>>8419830
Still coping I see.

>>8419854
no he's right you lost and are also gay

>>8419830
I don't care.
Wind Waker Niggers like you are pseudo intellectual clowns who think they have the audacity to spout pilpul akin to "real criticism of wind waker doesn't exist because" or "you're not allowed to comment on wind waker because your experiences have been tainted by other zelda games and other franchises".

You're not even cultivating any actual discussion, just being an obnoxious, stifling faggot. You will just scream and plug your ears for any flaw any one person feels is valid.

>>8416561
And Medli, who does not wear panties.

>>8419861
>racism
You've dug yourself into quite the hole, there
What makes you think I'm willing to "cultivate" any kind of discussion with someone who's going to use words like "nigger" against me?
Nah, I think I'm just going to tell you to kill yourself and move on. Enjoy your shit taste you fucking loser. Lmao

>>8419873
>noooooo not le hekin n word
erase yourself

>>8419878
I don't care about the N-word; I used it myself in that post.
There's absolutely no reason to use it against somebody, though. Unless you're racist.

>>8419886
It doesn't matter if you're not physically unable to type nigger, you're still a virtue signaling faggot who appeals to authority for usage of "forbidden" words. You have nothing, you're just a shit eater content with whatever your masters serve you on the shit platter.

>>8419919
Ultra based.

>>8419873
The matter of fact is that Wind Waker ks an incomplete game, it's been a known fact for 15 years now per Aonuma's word that the planned WW dungeons became Twilight Princess' dungeons.
Even if we go under the arguement that MM had only 4 dungeons, it's a game much more packed with content, NPC interactions and side quests. Wind Waker from the getgo is obvious was supposed to be a much bigger game, but ultimately was spread thin since it was shat out quickly because the GameCube needed a must have. And that hurts the quality of Wind Waker, it's nothing but lost potential.

And the Triforce quest was horrible filler.

>>8419919
There is no authority I'm appealing to besides simple facts and logic. If you use the word against somebody, you're either of two things—a racist, or someone who isn't mature enough to handle any kind of real conversation.
Both of these mean that I'm not willing to discuss anything with you, unless you apologize.

>>8419948
>you're either of two things—a racist
so?

>>8419938
The fact that Wind Waker is incomplete, and still manages to be a10/10 experience, is just a testament to how great the final product ended up being anyway.
You're only making me love the game more, not less. What a fuck up.
>And the Triforce quest was horrible filler.
It's the most kino portion of the game. Using the hyoi pear on the seagull during that one part is one of the coolest "lightbulb" moments in the series, right up there with having to physically close the DS to solve a map puzzle in Phantom Hourglass. Very clever stuff.

>>8419958
"So" kill yourself.

Imagine playing a game that rehashed LttP and OoT's exact formula and trying to pretend it's nothing like those games.

>>8419962
No, you'll have to deal with it, faggot.
Racism is just. Do what you're good at, cope.

>>8419963
ALttP and OoT do not have sailing or islands. None whatsoever.

>>8419960
It's not a 10/10 experience though, its a 7/10. It's too much of a tease promising an epic high seas adventure and after the initial opening act (the pearls) there's fucking nothing.

>>8419972
>promising an epic high seas adventure
All I can say is that it sounds like we played two different games, because it delivered on this front in spades for me. I still remember and think about those giant flying fish, the wooden watchtowers, the fucking ghost ship, the occasional tornado made by that wind god frog thing, visiting those optional islands, fighting those FUCKING HUGE octorok kraken things, and my favorite part, The Endless Night, where Ganon puts a curse on the sea, with the constant rain and the music gets all scary and intense as you're sailing back to Windfall Island, not knowing what the fuck is going on.
You missed all of this, apparently, or simply weren't as impressed by it.

The only thing I would've liked is for more storms, tidal waves, or perhaps a fishing minigame. Besides that, it's the best seafaring game you could've asked for in 2002. You can't really argue with that.

>>8419886
If you know the person is gonna throw a bitch fit over it, that's also a pretty good reason to use it.

>>8420027
most of these are just repetetive little gimmicks. those watchtowers stop being impressive when you realize that they're copypasted everywhere and all of them are exactly the same. i think his and my point is that we wanted actually interesting things to find and weren't just gawking at the potential like you seem to be

>>8419609
polishing the artstyle cause they knew it'd make internet retards justify its mediocre gameplay

>>8420109
What you just said is like complaining that every Rupee you pick up looks exactly the same, or something.
Only six Rupee colors? Why not the whole rainbow? Lazy devs.

Like I see you're point, but I just don't give a fuck and don't see why I should. It's so small in the grand scheme of the game. All games have a degree of repetitiveness to them. You might call it the nature of the medium.

>>8420120
>you're
your*
Jesus Christ I've literally never made that mistake before I hate myself

>>8420116
People hated the art style when it was first revealed, you revisionist faggot

>>8420120
except even that's too generous of an example cause the watchtowers don't even come in different colors. they're literally all EXACTLY the same. how does that inspire confidence in watching link sail when i always already know what i'm going to get before i even get there?

speaking of rupees, ww was the start of making them truly functionally useless. probably the reason they made the whole triforce chart translation thing so expensive cause they knew players up until that point would've horded them since there's nothing good to actually spend them on

>>8420128
and now everyone loves the artstyle at the expense of the gameplay you revisionist faggot. people who actually tried to play it and not game journos mostly dropped it over forsaken fortress stealth, not the artstyle like victim complex ww-fags like to pretend since the artstyle is all they really care about

>>8420027
>You missed all of this, apparently, or simply weren't as impressed by it
The real question here is how the fuck did it impress you? tornados are just teleports, and disappear entirely when you tame them, the ghost ship disappear when you close in, until you're allowed to enter it and then it's just a small arena. "endless night" is a fixed weather. There is really nothing special about everything you cited, even the best thing, the oktoroks are limited in numbers, once you've done one you basically did them all, and when you're actually done with them then that's it, like the tornados they stop existing altogether.
There is really nothing to be impressed with.

>>8420132
>how does that inspire confidence in watching link sail when i always already know what i'm going to get before i even get there?
Because if you're ever in the need for some Joy Pendants or whatever, it's good to know that there are easy places to farm them scattered all throughout the sea. Sure, they could've added some unique designs for them to spice things up, but the fact that they didn't shouldn't be a huge deal.
Basically, you're upset that the game doesn't have more unnecessary icing. That's fine, you do you, but can you admit that?

>speaking of rupees, ww was the start of making them truly functionally useless.
That's actually true, and a valid criticism. I was waiting for one.

>>8420120
Rupees are in universe monetary currency and the amount of colors match up the usual colors of various bills across various currencies like the mexican Peso or the real life Rupee.
The platforms are makeshift improv by Ganondorf's demon clan, at least make 3 types.

>>8420132
>ww was the start of making them truly functionally useless
to be fair, it's actually the opposite, for the first time in a zelda game, I had reasons to spend rupees in the store since it holds unique items.
Though I read in a previous thread there are people who suck hard enough in these games that you see streamers actually blowing their wallets in potions.

>>8420154
It's not just the things themselves, it's about how they're presented. Presentation and atmosphere mean a lot to me; they apparently don't mean a lot to you. The fact that a game can make me feel genuine emotions when nothing is actually happening to me in the real world is why I like video games. Wind Waker does a lot for me on that front.

>>8420157
oh wow a faggy useless collectible, that doesn't at all justify them being copypasted around or invite a sense of explorative adventure with how you just admitted that you know everything you're going to get there before you even find it (a fucking necklace that makes a counter go up in a submenu woo)
>b-b-b-but muh entirely pointless mask
just like the entirely pointless shield you get for the sail salesman's quest
>unnecessary
no i just want an actual reason to sail. its the point of the whole game. its fine that you think link is kawaii but stop pretending that makes the gameplay good just because you were wowed by its potential playing it as a kid

>>8420165
what unique items? you mean useless fluff like the windfall props you can place around for no reason? big whoop. literally a bigger waste of money than tingle's scam

>>8420169
>The fact that a game can make me feel genuine emotions
women, I swear.

>>8420169
we get it, you're wowed by its surface level bread and circus to the point where you don't care that all of it completely lacks substance.
>muh emotion
after you rescue aryll the game completely loses any emotional backbone it had. the rest of the game just feels like going through the motions after that. i'm pretty sure i felt more emotion playing any other zelda

i had fun so it's a good game
simple as

>>8420170
>entirely pointless mask
It lets you see enemy HP bars, and it looks cool as fuck. You're just being a faggot now.
>no i just want an actual reason to sail.
I gave you plenty, you just don't like them because you're a persnickety cunt.

Can we at the very least agree that, incomplete and rushed as it was, it at least tried to be its own thing? Sure, it's easy, the dungeons were pretty meh and the sea is rather barren, but in terms of atmosphere and presentation, it's pretty top notch. Call it slapping lipstick on a pig, but what it does well, it does REALLY well.

I wish I could say the same for TP. It's what you get when Nintendo caves to fans and goes for pure OoT fanservice. OH WOW SO MANY DUNGEONS. Too bad only a couple of them are actually memorable, and they somehow managed to make the overworld just as barren as TWW's, if not more, with some of the shittiest sidequests. And they STILL managed to add padding.

>>8420180
Game is pure substance.
>after you rescue aryll the game completely loses any emotional backbone it had
Just wrong. Starting to think you haven't actually played the game which wouldn't surprise me at all because this is /vr/

>>8420186
>muh health bars
so? enemies are unthreatening and piss easy. all seeing their health does is take even more tension out of the combat (moreso than the press A to win counter attack)
>I gave you plenty
you have literally given me none. you even conceded the watchtowers were predictable

>>8420186
>>8420201
you're both faggots just play what you enjoy

>>8420189
>can't we all just admit that style is better than substance?
no
>>8420193
it was the first zelda i ever beat. doesn't mean i have to blindly worship it because its superficial aspects wow me

>>8420189
>it at least tried to be its own thing?
If by "tried" you mean succeeded with flying colors, then yes.
>Sure, it's easy, the dungeons were pretty meh and the sea is rather barren
A game's difficulty level is completely irrelevant to its quality as a game. No one should give a fuck if a game is easy or hard.
The dungeons were all fantastic. Tower of the Gods is one of the best in the series.
The sea being barren is one of its most appealing qualities, and it's not even that barren in the first place.
>but in terms of atmosphere and presentation, it's pretty top notch.
Yes.
>Call it slapping lipstick on a pig
It's slapping lipstick on a gorgeous supermodel.
>what it does well, it does REALLY well.
Yes, in that it does everything well.

>>8420209
>I'm going to put words in anon's mouth and tell him no
>that'll show him

>>8420201
>so? enemies are unthreatening and piss easy.
So? You can see their health bars. It's just nice.
>you have literally given me none.
You're a faggot.

>>8420189
>muh barren overworld
love when ww fanboys bring this up
>i-i-i-i-it's totally different when you're on a boat instead of on a horse!!
not to mention takes up much, MUCH more space than tp hyrule field. imagine if you had to play a song every time you wanted epona to change direction too. wouldn't that be so retarded?

>>8420225
forgot picrel

>>8420220
>muh atmosphere and presentation
yeah that's called the style of the game dipshit. wwtards are so blinded by fanboyism that they think style IS substance

>>8420225
>imagine if you had to play a song every time you wanted epona to change direction too.
The obvious difference is that you shouldn't be changing directions all that much while sailing in the fucking ocean. There are no hills or terrains to trot around like you're riding a horse through Hyrule Field or something. You're in the fucking ocean. You pick where you're sailing to, change the direction of the wind ONE fucking time, and beeline to your fucking destination. Quit acting like it's such a hassle when it's not.

>>8420243
Style can, in fact, be substance. You only need an IQ in the triple digits to understand why.
Your idea of substance is having three different kinds of watchtowers, as if that isn't the most superfluous fucking shit ever.

>>8420225
Not a TWW fanboy. If anything, LA is probably my favorite. You can praise aspects of a game while acknowledging it has flaws, some quite serious. Like everyone else, I wish it had more to it, especially being able to explore underwater Hyrule.

But keep imagining arguments and positions that are nowhere stated with added hyperbole and greentexting. I'm sure that'll get you places.

>>8420246
ok then why is going any direction you want immediately with epona in tp a hassle enough to complain about then? why does the overworld being barren suddenly matter when its not wind waker?

>>8420252
i wish wind waker was a good game too. it really did have the potential to be the best zelda but didn't meet any of it

>>8420251
you were the one bowled over by the watchtowers and who brought them up at all. i just want an actual variety of real shit to discover off the beaten path, not just the same copypasted shit

>>8420253
It doesn't. Anyone who complains about "barren" overworlds is being a fag in 90% of cases. It's unreasonable to expect a game with a massive world to also have that world be as densely packed with shit to do, as in a game like Majora's Mask. It just doesn't work like that.
What do you even want? You don't even know.

>>8420231
There is nothing wrong with a sea looking like one. For me, WW's sea is too busy, you keep getting harassed by sharks and whatnow.

>>8420264
I never said I was bowled over. It was one tiny example out of several I gave of things that can happen at sea.
Your bar for "actual variety" is unreasonably high, especially for 2002 standards.
You would play Zelda 1 and say "why does this game only have four colors?"

>>8420186
>it looks cool as fuck

>>8420278
no because zelda 1 has much more interesting shit to find off the beaten path which is just pathetic. i remember shitting myself the first time i bought the blue ring and seeing what it did. even something that simple is just too much for wind waker. instead you just get an asston of disappointing collectibles that do nothing for the player

>>8420275
there is nothing wrong with a field looking like one

>>8420286

>>8420302
it makes link look like a serial killer. would always just take it off in spite of liking the bars as a kid just because of how ugly it was

>>8420268
In TP's case, it wasn't even that massive, just... oddly designed. It's a bunch of separate maps (each about as big, if not a little bigger, than OoT's Hyrule Field) interconnected by corridors that go around in a circle.

Some have close to nothing to do in them beyond serve as set pieces for certain portions of the game, such as the big field where you rescue Colin from King Bulblin. Once you finish that bit, there's almost no reason to ever revisit that part of the map again.

And there's some odd omissions as well. You have the Gerudo desert, but no actual Gerudos anywhere. There's Gorons, but there's no proper Goron city, just a mine where some Gorons happen to be. I suppose Zora's Fountain was relatively well done, although there's nothing there save the rock you blow up for a bomb bag upgrade (to be fair, there wasn't too much more in OoT's version either beyond a shop, a mini-game, and a heart piece).

Just seems to me all the work went into the dungeons, and the rest of the game is relatively starved for content.

>>8420287
>i remember shitting myself the first time i bought the blue ring and seeing what it did.
But why? Didn't you just shit on the Wind Waker mask for not being useful enough or whatever, because the combat is too easy for HP bars to be useful (which is bullshit anyway)?
Do you think Zelda 1 is hard? Can you not handle the game without cutting enemy damage in half? Are you that shitty?
Jesus Christ, I knew you were bullshitting from the beginning, but this is just embarrassing.

>>8420292
Sure, I'm not the samefag. I don't care.

Sailing was peak soul and only ADHD morons complain about it but the game was incomplete because they had to axe at least a couple dungeons to release the game in time. Now they don't do that anymore and we get 6 year development cycles for Zelda games.

>>8420318
yes? they are not at all the same. seeing health bars doesn't help protect the player and wind waker is piss easy compared to loz where shit like armor is extremely useful. anybody who doesn't think wind waker is easy most definitely can't get through any of loz so don't give me that shit. can you not handle wind waker without muh faggy pendants? jesus christ, i knew you were baiting from the beginning but this is just autism

WW has even less things to do than BOTW, it’s all just fluff
>M-MUH TREASURE CHARTS
Filler that gets you 20 rupees or a heart piece to make the game even easier. WOW

>>8420326
>I hate going on adventures
Why are you playing a Zelda game?

>>8420218
The difficulty shouldn't be irrelevant to the quality. Too easy makes a game boring like it happened to Wind Waker while too hard makes the experience miserable like Zelda 2.

>>8420326
why do you think botw is the way it is? nintendo looked at wind waker's modern reception and realized they didn't actually have to put anything interesting in the games. just give them a gm_flatgrass of an overworld map to fruitlessly dick around in and zoomers introduced via wind waker will think its the bees knees

>>8420336
>Too easy makes a game boring like it happened to Wind Waker
If you think Wind Waker is boring, that's a you problem. It's not because the game is too easy, because there's no such thing as too easy.
>too hard makes the experience miserable like Zelda 2.
If you think Zelda 2 is miserable, that's a you problem. It's not that the game is too hard—you just suck dick at the game.

>>8420340
What makes you think what you think is interesting is so interesting?

OHNONONO TWILIGHT PRINCESS BROS WE GOT TOO COCKY
https://www.reddit.com/r/wiiu/comments/485c4u/wind_waker_hd_or_twilight_princess_hd/

>>8420343
>there's no such thing as too easy.
cancer

>>8420363
If you're incapable of having fun playing an easy game, you are worse than cancer.

>>8420368
>shifting goalposts
fuck off

>>8420374
I didn't shift anything. My point is, and has always been, as long as the game is FUN, it can be as easy or as hard as it wants.
I don't see why difficulty should be a factor. If an easy game is boring to play, there are ways to make it more interesting besides making it more challenging. The entire Kirby franchise is built off answering that question, and arguably Zelda too. Difficulty is just not an important facet of what makes these games fun to play, and it shouldn't have to be.

>>8420393
i don't find wind waker fun. what now cockboy

>>8420393
>there is no such thing as TOO easy
>if you're incapable of enjoying an easy game
strawmaning as fuck

>>8420397
If you personally don't enjoy playing easy games, that's on YOU.
It cannot be cited as a game flaw.

>>8420403
>doubling down on the strawmen

>>8420408
I'm directly responding to the argument made in this post. >>8420336
How the fuck is that a strawman

>>8420413
And >>8420336 is right and you're a massive faggot. Difficulty allows to fine tune the so called fun you're talking about, so if a game is too easy, yes it's not fun, therefore you're wrong.

>>8420414
If a game COULD be "too" easy, then it wouldn't be fun, because "too" implies an excess of something, and excesses of things are bad by definition.
My point is that a game can never be "too" easy in the first place.

>>8420416
It can though. Enemies being push over, jumps being impossible to miss unless you walk right into them, so much health it takes minutes of sustained damage to kill you, enemies hitboxes so large you don't have to try to hit them, or autoaim in a game where shooting is the main component. And the list goes on because it works with every single mechanic.

>>8420427
Kirby has pushover enemies, impossible to miss jumps because you can infinitely float, and pretty much everything you just mentioned. And yet, they're still fun to play.
Do you disagree that there are ways of making a game that's "too easy" MORE fun besides just making it more challenging, or is that impossible for you to understand?

>>8420437
>Kirby has pushover enemies, impossible to miss jumps because you can infinitely float, and pretty much everything you just mentioned. And yet, they're still fun to play.
Fuck off, kirby has a proper difficulty curve, it's notorious for having brutal final levels. You're just parroting popular shit opinions now.

>>8420453
>it's notorious for having brutal final levels.
??????????????????? lmao what the fuck???????

Kirby Superstar's fun as fuck despite being easy because every ability has its own cool moveset, the main campaing mixes it up making it a lot more replayable, it's got fucking amazing, crunchy sound dessign and it has an amazing co-op option. Just for that co-op, it's one of the best action platformers ever made and the fun factor is a result of polish and deliberate choices. It's so flled with polish and love it's bursting at the seams.

Wind Waker is an ambitious long story-based adventure with some nice stuff in it that had a lot of non-deliberate choices, cut content, scrapped concepts and limitations that hamper the fun there's to be had in it.

Apples and oranges, man.

>grown men still arguing about a game that came out when I was in 6th grade
Why?

I liked Wind Waker pretty well as a kid. I remember hanging out in the cabana house a lot. I also remember an island made out of cubes that felt ominous to me. Pretty much the last one I played now that I think about it. I had a Wii but I didn't like the look of Twilight Princess and had lost all interest in the series by the time Skyward Sword came out

>>8420252
This

>>8420812
Based zoomer

>>8422368
6th grade = 11 y/o in America
If you were 11 in 2003, that makes you 29 today. That is squarely in millennial territory.
Dumbfuck.

>>8422415
You're a goddamn baby

>>8420231
why does it look so ugly here?

>>8415008
It really cemented in my mind that Wii U was an abortion. Thanks Iwata.

>>8419967
Based

Wind Waker is an excellent half of a Zelda game.

>>8420027
>it's the best seafaring game you could've asked for in 2002. You can't really argue with that.
Too bad sailing was boring and tedious as fuck.

>>8420120
Lol it’s like if OOT had a Lon Lon Ranch pasted every so often with slight variations.

>>8422592
Filtered

Lots of faggots in this thread talking shite about the best Zelda game. Stay mad, homos.

>>8422616
I was not filtered, I play it right to the Triforce hunt and stop, like any non-pedophile.

>>8414682
Majora’s Mask is a side story, not the flagship installment on a new console, you complete imbecile.

Imagine if the sea in this game was swapped out to a never ending flat land of green grass textures. Would people still praise this game? But somehow because it's water and sailing, it's entirely different and the world is so rich in content. People complain about Twilight Princess's fields, but WW is a way worse offender.

Never even gave it a chance/shot. The horribly childish art style/design was too off putting upon release, totally bypassed it.

>>8423579
>Imagine if the sea in this game was swapped out to a never ending flat land of green grass textures. Would people still praise this game?
Yes they would. It's not even hypothetical, see shadow of the colossus.

>>8423234
>i was not filtered
>anyway, here's the exact spot where i was filtered

>>8423579
>Imagine if the sea in this game was swapped out to a never ending flat land of green grass textures. Would people still praise this game? But somehow because it's water and sailing, it's entirely different
>imagine if this game did something that has already been done instead of doing something new
>would people praise a game for doing something new
Literally no brain in that skull of yours

>>8423585
You should kill yourself, brutally

>>8423734
I'm not him, but the Triforce Quest is really boring, can't blame him for quitting. It's not adventurous at all, it's MMO fetch quest tier. Yes, most Zeldas have fetch quests, but to make it an integral part of the main story? That's retarded and lazy.

>>8423741
>>8423739
Why are WWfags more aggressive than any other Zelda fans? Only other fans this psychotic are BOTWfags (who want constant praise for their Ubisoft shovelware all the time or else they'll break down)

>>8423747
>Triforce Quest is really boring
Reddit opinion
It's kino, and some of the puzzles were genuinely brilliant (the hyoi pear one)
Everything you do in any game ever boils down to fetch questing, it's how video games work
Maybe you just don't like video games (or good ones)

>>8423752
Because you are utterly incapable of providing a single good reason why WW and BotW doesn't deserve every bit of praise they've gotten
All you complain about is THE dumbest fucking shit, and it's frustrating because you think you're SO right

>>8423759
>>8423757
You're mentally disturbed if you actually enjoyed the Triforce Quest. That was obvious padding out of the ass by Nintendo.

>>8423767
If you hate video games, why are you on a board for discussing them

I don't understand why people are bothered about the Triforce quest. Wind Waker is a game about exploring. When you get asked to find the Triforce pieces, it gives you a good excuse to go out and explore the map. You have a unique, emergent gameplay experience that comes out of exploring. I wish it was longer, I heard the Japanese version is even longer, and it sounds fun. If the idea of that upsets you and you're in such a rush to finish the game, maybe you should re-evaluate what your goals are in playing in the first place. Imo I think Nintendo shouldn't have caved to such vocal whiners, people really don't know what they want.

>>8423812
>hover around checkmark until glow appears
>turn around glow and grapple until you hit it
>exploration

>>8423937
Pointlessly reductive, I could do the same fucking thing with any activity you consider exploration
The exploration is finding the charts themselves you fucking dipshit
Salvaging the pieces from the ocean is just a formality, and it does add to the sense of adventure which you completely lack because you're a soulless miserable cunt
Fuck you please die

>>8424059
>I'M SO AMAZED AT EVERYTHING, IF YOU ARE NOT EASY TO PLEASE YOU HAVE NO SOUL
>t. corporate cock sucker.

>>8424075
I'm extremely hard to please, actually. I've beaten hundreds of games and there are only three that I would ever give a 10/10 to. Wind Waker is one of them. You're just stupid as fuck.

>>8424090
No game deserve 10/10 mister NPC.

>>8424096
I agree, but I don't think of 10/10s as being perfect and flawless, otherwise I would never be able to give anything a 10/10.
A 10/10 to me is just a 9/10 that grabs me on a deeply personal level.

>>8423608
The wilderness in Shadow of the Colossus is detailed and atmospheric though. Not even close to a flat land of green grass textures.

>>8424109
Are you 12?

>>8424238
26 and kill yourself.

>>8424260
You're a gigantic pussy driven exclusively by emotions. Keep crying bitch nigga.

>>8424272
Get shot to death and raped in that order.

>>8424273
An other tamper tantrum. As expected from a soilent manchild worshiping fucking wind waker of all things.

>>8423759
Link to the past is way better.

>>8423759
Gamecube sucks dude.

>>8424302
It's very close, but not quite.

>>8424313
Kill yourself.

>>8424284
Do as I say.

>>8424347
Sucks to be as powerless as you are, you can't even convince people that you worship video games for good reasons.

>>8424357
Can't convince retards of anything. That's the point.

>>8423812
>Metroid Prime fans
>"yeah the artifact hunt at the game's end was bad filler and a weak part of the game"
>Mario Sunshine fans
>"yeah the blue coins at the game's end was bad filler and a weak part of the game
>Wind Waker fans
>Noooooo the triforce shards were hecking comfy kino my game is perfect you're just MAD

How can anyone believe Wind Waker is perfect? Is it because the cartoony, cel-shaded graphics age better than most other games? Sure it still looks simplistically nice and stylized, but I thought graphics weren't the ultimate factor? Gameplay wise, WW has a lot of padding, and obviously rushed and cut content. The sailing alone is more tedious than other games.

WW makes retards seethe so I'm gonna say it's a great game

>>8424391
some critics downplaying it cause of its artstyle at its launch has given its fans a permanent victim complex and has become the only reason they themselves enjoy the game inversely.

>>8424391
>I thought graphics weren't the ultimate factor
"graphics" and "visuals" are similar but different concepts

graphicsfags would say a game like WW has shit graphics, because they aren't ultraphotorealistic
because graphicsfags don't care about stylization, they just want realism

WW has amazing visuals, but the graphical fidelity is obviously pretty weak (not that anyone gives or should give a shit, but that's the difference)

>>8424506
people only gave a shit about realistic graphics during 6th gen and early 7th. nowadays every game is trying to look like fortnite

>>8424514
my point is that there's a difference between praising a game for its artistry and praising a game for its tech (not that they're always mutually exclusive)

>>8424521
well the style of the game isn't the ultimate factor for the same reason the technical graphics aren't. it's (supposed to be) about the gameplay

i don't even understand what's so artful about cheating limitations by just using flat bright colors anyway. if you ask me majora's mask is stylistically a much better looking game than wind waker

>>8424541
too bad no one did ask you

>>8424541
>i don't even understand what's so artful about cheating limitations by just using flat bright colors anyway
It looks really fucking cool. Tough one, I know.

>>8413648
Zelda has historically cut a lot of ideas and mechanics out in every game, only to go back and implement them in subsequent entries. Wind Waker was supposed to have a water dungeon after the deku tree, but it got cut and changed to going back to the beginning area and blowing up a wall.

>>8424543
no, nobody asked you. your little diatribe isn't even relevant to the point he was trying to make that its about gameplay
>>8424554
'cool' certainly wouldn't fit it. its very much cutesy wutesy more than anything

>>8424559
>its about gameplay
he asked why people care about the game's visual style so much, and I gave him the correct answer
gameplay-wise, WW is great—there is no padding, that is an incorrect statement
padding is not "stuff i don't like," it's just stuff you don't like
cut content is irrelevant because it isn't part of the final product so why even bring it up
sailing is awesome and not tedious at all, get filtered

also
>cute can't be cool

>>8424574
>cut content is irrelevant because it isn't part of the final product so why even bring it up
This point annoys me the most. ALL games have cut content. I've never seen anyone try to hold that against a game before. What retardation is this?

>>8424557
And that was perfectly fine
Why would every single orb need you to go through a dungeon to get it? Totally arbitrary video game logic

>>8424574
>there is no padding
lol ok cockboy from earlier. even the devs admit there's padding. why do you think they considered adding more dungeons for the remaster?
>>8424579
its not cut content to begin with. its content they wanted in but didnt have enough time and so put in triforce hunt padding

>>8424594
>its not cut content to begin with. its content they wanted in but didnt have enough time and so put in triforce hunt padding
Thank god for that. Based devs.

>>8423752
Reception to WW at the time was really aggressive, back then there was a lot of shit flinging everywhere regarding Wind Waker, there was no 4chan acting as a containment forum.
Same reason why Battle Network fans are the most bitter and aggressive out of all Mega Man fans, coincidentally.

>>8424587 (you)
>>8424601 (you)

>>8423812
No, the Japanese Triforce quest is the same in Japan, it was shortened for HD.
And because this series did a Triforce hunt before and much better back in 1986, with every single piece hidden away in labyrinths with boss fights and hard enemies after the fourth chart. Not paying Tingle.

>>8424607
I win.

>>8424620
typical weeb wanker just making up le superior nipponese version of the game (that unironically sounds much worse to any sane person)

WW lacked the lore sauce that OoT and MM had. I know people will cry “Reddit!”, but stuff like the well dungeon, the graveyard crypts, and other stuff like the aliens in MM were nice “dark fantasy” touches that WW lacked.

Someone brought up the ghost ship and yea, N64 era Zelda would have totally made that unique with some special miniboss like that multi arm zombie. It just missed a lot of stuff like that and a majority of the islands are just not worth visiting.

>>8424641
i love the idea of wind waker fanboys crying about reddit

i'll throw them a bone though and say earth temple was pretty spooky and the way the redeads look has a certain mystery to it considering they don't just look like typical zombies. wind waker needed more stuff like that to contrast all the bright syrupy sweet shit its full of

>>8424667
Another complaint I have about WW and BotW is the goblins. They’re just boring, the series felt pretty good about having a staple bestiary but goblins are just boring.

>>8424667
Yeah because they wouldn't be tonally jarring at all

Retards
Retards everywhere

>>8424675
Moblins and bokoblins are absolutely fine
They're animated extremely well and feel like they're living creatures

>>8424678
oh well i guess earth temple must be a blight on your perfect game then

>>8424684
Fine on their own, but monotonous to fight the entire game. I’m not a Souls-fan, but that series does what Zelda used to be known for: a long bestiary to keep things interesting

>>8424685
No, I love the Earth Temple. I think the level of darker stuff in the game is fine, and I agree that every Zelda game should have at least a touch of dark fantasy. WW just doesn't need more than what it has.

This all goes back to the point I made way back. You don't have any issues with Wind Waker—you just want it to be like other Zelda games for some reason. You don't want Wind Waker to have its own voice. You want all Zelda games to be alike.

>>8424675
I genuinely hate Wind Wakee introduced Bokoblins and turned them into the defacto stock enemy (worse so in BotW) while the role of Moblins became increasingly more irrelevant (They were even removed from TP).

Zelda has a wide bestiary, the Demon Clan is massive. I'm sick of only seeing Bokoblins. Make Darknuts army enemies, make the player struggle, don't treat him as a miniboss. Make Gibdos show up in droves like in 2D games.

Bring back Manhandla, Daira, Wosu and Digdogger, for fuck's sake.

>>8424695
don't converse with him. the game could be link taking a shit the whole time and he'd still be sperging about how fine fine finedy fine fine fine it all is. kawaii artstyle defies all criitique

>>8424712
>fine fine fine fine fine fine fine fine fine fine fine fine fine fine fine

>>8424695
I agree with you more on this point in re: BotW, which has like five unique enemies total. WW doesn't have it THAT bad. The goblins aren't any more prevalent than octoroks are in the original games.

>>8424719
I'm not defending Wind Waker chief.

>>8424708
>You don't have any issues with Wind Waker
mmmmm delicious bad faith. i get it, the artstyle is cute
>>8424724
just making fun of his inevitable cookie cutter reply

>>8424724
He's acting like that's how I would respond, even though I actually agree that modern Zelda games could do to have some more enemy variety.
Wind Waker is FINE in that respect, I think, but there could certainly be more stuff to fight. Absolutely. I don't think it's a big problem that hurts the game, though. It's a nitpick at best.

wind waker doesn't even really have a lack of enemies. pretty sure there's about as many as oot. they just weirdly keep reusing the bokoblins over and over again in it anyway. i guess because they're easy to fight

>>8424748
I recall fighting more chuchus than bokoblins

>>8424712
By the half-way point Wind Waker kept throwing DarkNuts at you like candy and it was great

>>8425089
I love them in concept, and they have great designs.
What I don't like is that the Parry system unbalances and Darknuts become a game of "Wait for th spiky A icon" rather than actual combat. The Darknuts needed parries of their own or something to force the player to actually earn that slash to their backs.

>>8419651
too easy

>>8425102
you could tell the A parry move was supposed to be more twitchy but nintendo pussied out in testing and made it a press A to win button. doesn't help that its the only solution for enemies like darknuts as you said. also why the fuck did they turn them into doberman furries with overalls? always weirded me out. i liked the creepy bird wizrobes though with their incomprehensible noises

>>8425223
I don't mind them being doberman monsters, the demon clan has tons of variants (bulldog Moblins and pig Moblins for example), but Twilight Princess had the right idea with the parries being button combinations rather than s single button. I just wish they could make all enemies harder to fight, we always seem to be trapped with either a shitty Bokoblin or in the latest gsme a Lynel. Granted, Lynel is a fucking amazing enemy to fight.

>>8425102
Kid's game

>>8425289
that explains why only manchildren love it

>beat tower of the gods
>go to hyrule and get the fully powered master sword
>afterwards you now have to explore the underwater hyrule to find 8 dungeons containing the triforce shards
>fire temple
>ice temple
>earth temple
>wind temple
>steam temple
>water temple
>sand temple
>spider temple
>there would be multiple portals where you could travel between the ocean surface and underwater hyrule to both get around and do puzzles
>tons of interesting new side quests involving the two realms
if only...

>>8425298
yeah like i said earlier, ww really did have the potnetial to be the best zelda. i can't imagine we'd ever get THAT many extra dungeons even with a couple more years' development time, we'd probably at best get like four or so.
but yeah it just makes sense to me that hyrule was meant to be much more interactive at some point. ties in to zelda 1 with the triforce pieces in the dungeon etc. spider temple sounds like favorite dungeon material

Wind Waker is soulless and too easy. I will never get the dicksucking over this game. It's one of the weakest Zeldas. Definitely weaker than every game before it.

>>8425289
Why is that a excuse? All previous Zelda games were kids games too and they weren't as easy as Wind Waker. The Oracle games had just come out and they can get quite hard.

>>8425535
Why is being easy a problem

>>8425575
Oh god, it's you.
See: >>8420336

>>8425575
its boring and patronizing. oot already wasn't exactly difficult so ww feeling the need to nerf it all the moreso just makes it feel like a game for babies

>>8425580
Sounds like a personal problem
If you're so insecure about feeling like a baby for playing a game for babies, then you might just be a baby, and you should work on that

WW could be twice as easy as it is, and as long as it feels good to play, it doesn't matter at all
Then I'll turn on Dark Souls and Castlevania III or whatever else if I want to have some kind of challenge
No problem

Play the game in VR.

>>8425594
it becomes a problem when every other zelda that came before did difficulty better. i already know you excuse everything because of the artstyle anyway. you're not arguing in good faith here. you just don't care about the gameplay

>>8425637
Art style sucks dick actually, the rest of the game is perfect. What now?

>>8425664
that is not a real opinion

>>8424313
Message not actually endorsed by Char Aznable. That sounds more like something that AEUG loser Quatro Vagina would say.

I love this thread. It is a shining indictment on the insecurity of windwakerbabs.

>>8424373
I enjoyed the artifact hunt, for exactly the same reason, it encourages going off the beaten path and exploring. There is no easy way to know if you have all the blue coins, so I don't think that's a fair comparison. You're just projecting.

>>8425102
Zelda combat is a problem in pretty much every game, it's not exclusive to Wind Waker.

>>8425765
I wouldn't trust any sp*cenoids with outsourced Nintendo development, except maybe the lads at Anaheim.

It baffles me that Nintendo designs their Zelda games as if everyone playing it is a lobotomized toddler.

Even Mario and Kirby games are more challenging. What the hell gives Nintendo? Zelda is suppose to be slightly more serious than those games.

>>8426265
idk kirby's pretty serious, at least with the endgame bosses.

>>8413648
Like other anons said, the blueballing with Hyrule underwater open for exploration and the lack of stuff to do on the ocean.
They should have nothing underwater until the very end of the game and explore more in a sequel.
In fact all the game needed to feel complete was more stuff on the ocean.
It propably wouldn't have cost that much time anyways, one to two months more, where they add more stuff such as whales, more krakens, ghost ships, more people travelling with good quests, a whole fort of boklins, not just a few towers, more islands with stuff to do. And less of the annoying gliding peahats.
They could have just copied One Piece desu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1Xw31qQRGo&t=48s

>>8425443
>>8426265
It was my first Zelda as a kid, being ~13-14 and I found it kind of difficult without help from the internet or help books, both in combat and in puzzles, until the Tower of Gods. Similar for my friends back then. The only ones I knew who described them as easy were using help books...
Nintendo was back then catering to the market of children and teenagers, not to adults.

>>8425978
Not a problem in any game

>>8426265
Mario and Kirby games are not more challenging and never have been, you probably just suck at Mario and Kirby games (which is extremely embarrassing)

>>8426602
Yes they are you dope, they're not difficult but you still can "die" in those games, with any Zelda past ALTTP, dying is virtually impossible for anyone that isn't 3 years old. They hold your hand less than Zelda does.

>>8426692
ehh that's not really a fair comparison because it's not like there's bottomless pits in zelda ya know. plus, you don't get to carry four bottles of fairies or 20 hearts in mario or kirby, at most an extra powerup. it's more how different the games are made ya know, like dying in most metroid games is unlikely too due to how many e tanks you can carry.

>>8426692
>this game sucks because i didn't die an arbitrary number of times that tells my brain that what i'm playing is difficult
Fuck you
What are puzzles

>>8426598
>Ocarina of Time/Majora Mask
Just wait for the enemy to willing expose it's weak point
>Wind Waker
Parry Button to instawin
>Twilight Princess
AI so easy and braindead that the enemies can't react at all to anything you throwing out, not your advanced maneuvers or your millions of items except Darknuts (which you only fight 3 in the whole game)
>Skyward Sword
entire combat centered around boring precision
>Breath of the Wild
they just gave up

>>8427556
in oot/mm you can usually bait counters with certain items or just outright gimp them with deku seeds

>>8427556
>video games have coded AI

Yeah no shit

>>8427556
But you didn't explain how any of this is a PROBLEM

Threads like this make me just wanna go on a rampage.
How can people be so fucking wrong?

>>8426406
>more krakens
The big octos perfectly sum up Wind Waker: they're visually impressive and seem huge, but it's all surface level. They have no attacks and their "difficulty" is just "can you lock onto multiple targets with your boomerang?". Splish Kaboom offers more challenge than the octos.

>>8427780
I'd say Big Octos would be better if they were ONLY weak to bombs since you have to manually aim those rather than just auto-lock on the Boomerang.

I find the sailing music really comfy
Fuck squids though, niggers spitting me everywhere

>>8413653
lmao4dungeon
excessive filler content

>>8414313

https://medium.com/@gordonnl/wind-waker-graphics-analysis-a0b575a31127

Game was a technical Marvel