/vr/ - Retro Games

>how /vr/ plays it

i dunt git it
what is what?

Neither of them look how they’re supposed to.

Both look like shit.

great thread, op
now go back to /v/

>>8354856
>>8354857
Both look like shit, pic related is how it's supposed to look

>>8354885
>>8354891
This

Accurate shaders are necessary for historical reasons but if you're actually sitting down to play the game just use whatever looks best to you.

>>8354926
exactly, that's why I use a PVM

It's interesting that the sign says TYFER. Everyone focuses on Aeris vs Aerith, but nobody ever focuses on the much more important Tifa vs Tyfer debate.

>>8354856
CRTfags and filterfags are the /vr/ equivalent of audiophiles who listen to the equipment, not the music, and will claim till the end that they can hear difference between 320kbps mp3 and flac.
have you tried, you know, just enjoying the games? seriously, i couldn't care less that it's slightly off here and there.

>>8354959
>slightly off

>>8354959
>just enjoy the games
soul is more important

>>8354968
lmao PVM fags on suicide watch

>>8354968
Delete this now!

>>8354968
see, that's what I mean. imagine playing SMB3—an undisputed classic. maybe you'd enjoy going back to the tanooki suit, the items, the air fortresses? finding new secrets?… but instead people like you sit there and go
>oh no, when i sit with my nose touching the screen, the subpixels don't look right!!!
then go on /vr/ and proceed to rant for 24 hours how some game was meant to be played exactly with this cable and exactly on this TV or else it's literally shit and you can't enjoy it.
the problem is not the TV screen, the problem is you, your fixation on pixels and your CRT fetishism.

>>8354856
Another fucking CRT thread

>>8354926
This.

>>8354856
I've played ffvii countless times on a real crt and it looks nothing like this.

>>8355298
Which shaders are these?

>>8354857
>how /vr/ plays it
Correct. This is how the developers intended it to look.

>>8356237
Royale + some extra layers at 1080p windowed.

>>8354926
This, seriously sometimes /vr/ is exactly like the audiophiles people make fun of.

>>8354885
this
>>8354926
Those are nowhere even NEAR accurate shaders, even given CRTs' massive individual variance. OP may as well have posted a shader from 2004 that just draws dark lines across the screen and called it CRT. Shaders can be worlds better than this right now.

>>8354856
Uhhh ohh!
Looks like someone's got a case of the S'POSED'TAS!

These threads are garbage and I hope everyone in them gets beheaded.

>>8355119

>>8355119
You can't cure these people, anon. They're broken. Genetic dead ends. They will never have an opinion that is of any use to anyone or the gaming culture as a whole. Life is harsh and some cells deserve to be sloughed off so the body can survive, the mistake is someone made this board so these brainless clumps can be kept alive through artificial stimulation in a cruel shambling mockery of life.

>>8355119
I like crts

>>8354959
majora's mask

what are some good games to play on CRT for the visuals? I have a SNES and some carts but I'm looking to broaden my horizons.

>>8356814
have you considered killing yourself

>>8356817
no, I'm straight

>>8354856
It is supposed to be 1/6th that size. It won't look right with any of these images or filters or on any display when scaled up so much artificially.

>>8354968
Imagine being you, posting this like that image does anything put prove you are fucking blind and retarded. Zoom in a bit more and I bet it looks even worse for both sides.

>>8356787
hee-ho

>>8354856
Funny that people rage over this but are more than happy to keep mistranslations like Claud's bastard sword.

>>8354968
Zoomed and edited it even more to look worse for you.

>>8356787
Rider V3 is dangerously based.

>>8356787
I love your desk setup, I'm going to try to steal it when I move to a new place.

>>8354856

I judge shaders exclusively by how well they deal with dithering. Anything else is pointless bickering over your favourite flavour of image degradation.

>>8356929

Also, Donkey Kong Country 2. It's a sublime experience on a crt or a good filter.

>>8354968

>>8356787
>>8356875
That small crt is great. Happen to have a model number for it?

>>8356875
>thumbnail actually looks like a FF7 scene

>>8356303
Thanks

>>8356875
That's a 3D rendering, right?

>>8357247
No, I don't think so? It's not my photo, but looks real to me, and everything in the image is a real item.

>>8357247
Yes.

>>8357247
get a load of this guy. this is your brain on CRT

>>8356276
That sucka got two mouths.

>>8356857
>>8354968
oh no no ZOOM EVEN CLOSER

>>8357893
>left looks like fur
>right looks like fabric
which one is intended

>>8354959
>that they can hear difference between 320kbps mp3 and flac
You can with good enough ears (which most audiophiles don't have).

>>8356276
show me the playtest setup :)

>>8357893
Right looks better if you don't click on the image.

>>8358096
If you have a 320x240 LCD with 1:1 scaling and it's only 5-6 inches, then the game will look pretty good, yep.

>>8358104
They both look fine. The only problem is the right is slightly too bright. Just turn down the gamma/brightness a bit.

>>8356875
The plant and the tiled floor make this setup absolutely BASED.

>>8358421
Tiled floors are soulless.

>>8357349
>>8357791
>>8357803
Everything looks so intentionally places and lit. The highlight on the wall has just the right amount of bump, the plant looks like plastic. I wasn't sure at first. It's a very good photo, but I think the figurines gave it away. That would be a little too tideous for a render project.

>>8357893
The faces are completely fucked on the left. For the skeleton you can't even tell where the skull starts and stops, and the monster at the bottom looks like he has 2 sets of eyes. It's fine on the right though.

>>8358085
The playtest setup doesn't fucking matter. They still use 720p LCDs to test PS5 games. Is that how PS5 is intended to be played?

>>8354942
Go to youtuber and look up a Japanese-languag3e walkthrough. The Japanese still call her Aeris even though all the assholes who are not Japanese but decided they know better than everyone else insisted on her being called "Aerith," which sounds so fucking stupid.

>>8358847
They don't though, stop LARPing

>playtest doesn't matter
>even when there's professional graphics designers playing and rating and giving input on graphics
Lol

>>8358425
>t. brown carpet haver
Absolutely disgusting and quintessially american. Go clean your cum stains.

>>8354856
How can I get that effect?

>>8361057
concumer crt tv over composite
literally the easiest thing to do and cheapest

Post cool shaders.

>>8361096
>composite
it's most likely RGB, look how sharp the pixels on the kids hair, no way you would get something that clean over composhite

>>8354968
People forgets how masks were supposed to look like, you had even horizontal grille and other shit at time, and all CRT Tv's were random.
Only PC monitors by the 90's were constant with shadowmasks that made even early emulators with bilinear look good, and then shit once LCD hit.

Tv's were always grille or Slot.
and slot was tits with games with pseudo 3d look like uniracers and clayfighter 2 while grille looked great on DKC

>>8361148
might be
then again you can't really tell apart a PS1 with a modern composite encoder compared to RGBS out

>>8361217
also, you aren't meant to see scanlines, all screenshots pics them up.
Plus for some reason, retroarch shaders on SNES9x arent allergic to resolutions and aspect ratio and they blend well with reshade's stuff like hdr and Gaussian Blur

>>8361237
>also, you aren't meant to see scanlines, all screenshots pics them up.
You can seen scanlines at 240p on a average 90's concumer set if you look very close, since these sets already had the capability and dot pitch to resolve 300-500 separate fields
They are just super obvious on aperture grille CRTs with lower dot pitch

>>8354959
Nah, quite a few old games actually rely on dithering effects etc. to create unique effects and additional colors, this is not easily reproducible on an LCD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0weL5XDpPs

>>8354968
>half the pixels missing
>horrible bleeding on all the outlines
wow they're both shit glad i didn't waste money and not to mention space on a crt

>>8361374
Newsflash, the art is designed with the bleeding in mind.

>>8361374
>>half the pixels missing
Nope. Both have all the same dots (CRTs don't have pixels).

>>8361265
oh, i forgot to add
>inb4 someone posts the waterfall in Sonic 2
yes, I get it, they used dithering. and no, it can be replicated very easily, simply blur the chroma component.
btw, it's not the CRT, it's composite cable. you'd still get bad dithering with component cable on a CRT.

>>8361405
no way. it looks like garbage. why is mario's eyeball supposed to bleed into his head? makes no sense
>>8361409
every other line is missing. do you have eyeballs?
>crts don't have pixels
except the nes does. what kind of retardation is this? i can say those "dots" are really just photons and so you are also inaccurate. its the same shit. i'm sorry you're so blitzed on the copium that you haven't realized you have wasted your gibs on old shit you don't need when you could've just emulated for free

>>8361265
>not easily reproducible on an lcd
clicking the blarg ntsc filter button is sooooo hardddddd if only i wasted money on a shot crt and physically deteriorating cartridges

>>8361230
I dunno whats a modern composite encoder but on my old CRT TV composhite and RGB are night and day apart

No, THIS is how /vr/ plays it.

No image.

/vr/ doesn't play games. We only discuss them. Intellectually.

>>8361434
>every other line is missing.
Both are 240p, that's what 240p is on a display designed to show 480i.

>except the nes does.
But the CRT doesn't, what comes out of the NES is a analog signal, no pixels.

>>8359319
The playtest matters, not the cheap displays the testers use. Yes, Sony does use 720p LCDs during PS5 testing. The system supports 720p, afterall. You don't know what you're talking about lol.

>>8354959
>will claim till the end that they can hear difference between 320kbps mp3 and flac
If you're not listening over Bluetooth to a tiny 20 dollar speaker, you should be able to hear a difference.

It's Hi-Res you're thinking about. 24 bit is a reasonable improvement in audio performance, but going about 44.1/48 kHz is just fucking stupid. Never pay for Tidal, it is a huge waste if money, especially because all of their Hi-Res content is compressed to shit in MQA.

Amazon Music is at least reasonable, and a lot of their catalog is 24 bit / 44.1 kHz FLAC, with no upcharge for it. Play that on an inexpensive amp with some OK sized Bookshelf speakers (Polk Tsi 200, as an example), and you're good. You don't need to spend a lot to get good audio. You can spend just a little bit more than the rock bottom and get a significant improvement, but never, ever, ever, fall for the Hi-Res shit or a 1,000 USD pre-amp.

>>8361487
>Yes, Sony does use 720p LCDs during PS5 testing.
citation needed

>>8361487
>Yes, Sony does use 720p LCDs during PS5 testing. The system supports 720p, afterall.
How is this related to old systems that used CRT and composite arfitcating and dithering at all? Back in the day playtest environments had above average concumer tubes, hooked up over the same cables the console came with. Weirdo.

>>8361476
>Both are 240p, that's what 240p is on a display designed to show 480i.
or use a non-retarded display that scales the image properly without distracting black lines that make the image darker than it should be
> no pixels
it literally is pixels. its only converted to analog cause the crt is too old and shitty for digital signals. my point exactly. you could emulate and have it look any way you please but you fork over all this money and mental gymnastics just to larp that you're playing it the way the devs intended like you're psychic and can read their minds from afar. it's so gay and is the same pathetic boomerism as insisting black and white movies are better. you no longer enjoy your hobby and so now only do this no true scotsman shitflinging

>>8354909
>half of /vr/ thinks this is pixel art, and good pixel art at that
>they don't realize it's a garbage pixelated low res render.

>>8361527
yeah actual developers intention would be upscaled to the actual render or just actually rendering the scene in 3d instead of being compressed to shit and jpg-ized to work right on the ps1

>>8361254
i had a top of the line LG screen with slot and a Sanyo TV
never saw on them, but the image even with anime was sharp.

>>8361442
Anon, this makes it look like a satellite stream of a old nascar race.
TV output smoothens the artifacts

>>8361536
wow more no true scotsman shit. i used to play on a crt and blargg is perfectly accurate to what i remember. i'm not participating in your crt buyers remorse copefest

>>8354968
I unironically want the 14FS100. I had the 27" model a few years ago and loved it, but I'd like a smaller version now. The 20" model would be good, too.

>>8361523
>or use a non-retarded display that scales the image properly without distracting black lines that make the image darker than it should be
Both are literally showing 240p with the same aspect ratio, I think you're confused what differences finer dot pitch and mask vs grille have. Both have exactly the same image without missing any data.

>it literally is pixels.
CRTs don't have pixels and don't know what pixels are. Pixels only exist BEFORE the DAC inside the system that sends the video signal.

>>8361573
I use a pretty big dot pitch shadow mask CRT for my old games, it's a old composite+s-video+RGB monitor for old computers that output 15kHz. Beats having thick scanlines and graphics as sharp as a LCD.

>>8361542
Blargg doesn't replicate the rainbow artifacts, so it's not wholly accurate. Not even saying it's desirable or needed, just inaccurate to the real thing, unless you played on a 32X or something.

>>8361591
Big dot pitch combined with a clean, quality signal is retro game perfection, if you ask me.

>>8361623
I fully agree. I have the option to use high end VGA and PVM CRTs instead, but I prefer the less sharp picture for games.

>>8361542
I don't even own one, i said in terms of you need a crt filter on top of it to fill the rest as >>8361613 said.
You still need a good crt filter on top of it to emulate the mask.

>>8361586
never said scanlines hide data, just that they're shitty compensation for lack of proper scaling, are distracting and make the image darker than it should be
>Pixels only exist BEFORE the DAC inside the system
you mean the actual game? really not sure what you're getting at here. the game is made of pixels. if we're all about developers intent than we should probably use the same frame of reference they actually used and not vague bullshit like "dots"

>>8361613
it actually does but only in motion. i doubt its part of the intent anyway. its just a side effect of faking the transparency that happens to work right for the waterfall specifically.

>>8354909
>pic related is how it's supposed to look
but that's wrong, you retard.
please look at the wood for more than two seconds

>>8361675
>just that they're shitty compensation for lack of proper scaling
There's no scaling, left and right are the SAME SIZE

>you mean the actual game?
Yes, the console processes memory that makes up pixels, but the CRT only displays a signal and has physically not the ability to display pixels 1:1

>>8362120
>There's no scaling, left and right are the SAME SIZE
except the left cuts out every line because it can't scale the image properly (ie with no gaps)
> but the CRT only displays a signal and has physically not the ability to display pixels 1:1
another reason not to use them

>>8362671
>except the left cuts out every line
Nope, both left and right draw the same lines and same amount of lines
If you move the images a little you can even see where the black lines match up on each, the right side just isn't as good at displaying the lines itself since it uses dots instead of slots, making a line with 3 slots/blocks is much easier than with 3 balls/dots

>another reason not to use them
You mean to use them, since old games designed for old consoles didn't have many pixels available to draw the art, so anything that generate pseudo detail is beneficial and if you think old games suck anyways, why are you on /vr/?

>>8362681
if its at the point where you can't see it i don't think it matters. interesting though i guess?
>if you think old games suck anyways, why are you on /vr/?
don't put words in my mouth dork i just prefer playing retro games on a superior display i can configure to look any way i want instead of pulling out a loan to force myself to use rotting 30+ year old hardware to impress other dorks on anime imageboards

>>8354856
>composite
Way to ruin those beautiful high colour pre-rendered backgrounds.

>>8362778
fuck off

>>8354856
america confirmed on gaia

>>8362697
>pick up CRT for free
>hook it up
>play game without having to use filters/shaders and also with zero motion blur and lowest display input latency (for 30/60 fps content)

>>8356787
If you steal from those soldiers you can get a Hardedge now and not later on.

>>8361265
that has nothing to do with CRT vs LCD. That's entirely due to the shit-tier quality of the genesis composite output. Composite on an LCD shows the waterfall blending. RGB on a CRT shows the vertical stripes

Also it's a really bad example. The waterfalls are basically the ONLY benefit to using composhit on genesis. Everything else looks much worse and you get shitty jailbars. I'll take a nice clear image even if it means MUH WATERFALLS are messed up. Certainly better than pic-related.

>>8363863
Yet composite still looks better on a CRT than LCD.

>>8354856
Like dookie

>>8363863
composite on LCD looks like shit. The waterfall is more convincing than HD but the effect is incomplete
>The waterfalls are basically the ONLY benefit to using composhit on genesis
transparency isn't the only use for dithering, it was also used for greater colour depth.

>>8363925
Composite on genesis looked like shit, period.

>>8363863
>>8363925
>>8363929

>>8363932
Based
I use composite with the Mega Drive but with a modern composite encoder, benefit of dithering without any overly big loss in quality itself

>>8363932
>>8363939
And that's without bringing the CRT into the equation
Add that, and you get smooth gradients. The trees in Hill Top Zone in Sonic 2 particularly struck me as not even looking like sprites but HD graphics. The bottom of the Iifa Tree in Final Fantasy 9 also has colour banding on an LCD even with composite.

>>8363932
That looks like Mdapt or a similar blending shader.

>>8363653
any free crt is guaranteed shot or has a spider nest in it or some shit. nobody's just gonna give away nice shit like that for free anymore. why do you think physical retro games are so expensive now? normie scalpers are now aware people like you will pay an arm and a leg for something that's going to rot to dysfunction in five years

here's a non-batshit version
>use whatever filter i want for free on an led
>don't appease /vr/ permavirgin's crt buyers' remorse

>>8364245
there are still plenty of free CRTs all around. There's really no scalping going on because non-schizos don't have the means to sit around hoarding a dozen 32" behemoths taking up all the space in their house hoping to dupe some retard into paying 50 bucks each for a consumer set. PVMemes yes, but that's a whole different story.

The main reason there will continue to be free CRTs commonly available for a long time is because they're heavy as shit and illegal to throw away in the trash. There are still plenty of boomers with good-quality CRTs sitting in their basements or back rooms that they've simply never bothered getting rid of because hauling it off isn't worth the trouble. I still see listings for trinitrons all the time on craigslist from boomers begging someone to take away their trash for free.

>>8364245
this whole post is one massive copefest
>find a CRT for sale in a neighborhood with lots of old people whose adult kids are making them get rid of the shit they've hoarded, or a second hand/thrift store
>can drive to a nearby mom and pop game store and buy carts for most pre fifth gen consoles for less than $20
>can buy, for less than $100, most pre 5th gen consoles or chink bootlegs
next, you'll complain that these prices are too high for whatever reason

>>8361217
>this hole post
LMAO the only meaningful difference between a TV and a PC monitor isn't shadowmasks but the difference in scan rate. Every CRT manufacturer used a different shadowmask and there was no one standard on the PC for the same reason there was no in normal TVs - because Sony had a lock-on on the only good looking shadowmask patent. Monitors look sharper because of a 2.2 times faster scan rate nothing more.

>>8364326
yeah i'm really coping hard that i'm not wasting money for no reason. i'm pretty sure these idealistic scenarios you've fabricated are more an indication of cope. imaginary mom n pop stores don't defy reality. even goodwill /vr/ shit is massively overpriced compared to how they used to be. they all know now. its too late. good thing its much more convenient to emulate anyway

>>8364336
>yeah i'm really coping hard that i'm not wasting money for no reason.
sounds like it, because all of those actually happened for me lol, have fun with your self deluded excuses though poorfag

>>8364353
>I DON'T HAVE BUYER'S REMORSE!!!! I DON'T HAVE BUYER'S REMORSE!!!!
dust your room dork

>>8364360
cope and I accept your consneedsion

you really think an amyfag would do that? just go on the internet and tell lies?

>>8364245
Kek, sure thing buddy. Tell that to my workstation VGA CRTs and Sony TVs that are in mint condition.

>>8364394
kek completely irrelevant cope. a free crt on the side of the road is by nature never going to be in mint condition

>>8364404
You do realize getting rid of your old electronics here costs YOU money? Plenty of people post their old electronics, specially CRTs on local classifieds for free, because someone picking it up from you for free means you don't have to take it to a recycler and pay on top of that for them to take it.
Most of them are in perfect condition that were used back in the day and only owned by one person.

>>8364419
>Most of them are in perfect condition that were used back in the day and only owned by one person.
too bad use deteriorates the image sharpness. my old goldstar went the same way

>>8364327
Anon, PC was always shadowmask in the mid to late 90's.
You can thank 3d cards for that.

>>8364430
>PC was always shadowmask
You don't say. The only other option is a aperture grill. Unless it's a trinitron you always have a shadowmask in a CRT no matter if it's the 40s or 90s you mong.

>>8364465
Triniton were always a meme as PVM

>>8364424
Don't you recalibrate yours?
Also a few thousand hours on a CRT is nothing.

>>8364424
Good thing for 240p retro gaming sharpness is quite irrelevant, even if you happen across one that has a lot of wear :)
Brightness and contrast would be a bigger issue

>>8364430
What? Are you pretending slot mask and aperture grille don't exist? I have literally aperture grille monitors from 1993. For example most Apple monitors by default were.

>>8364465
You sure you're not forgetting slot mask?

>>8364430
Most late 90's and early 2000's monitors were aperture grille, since Sony's patent ran out and anyone could make them.

>>8364576
nah all /vr/ looks much better on my sharper jvc. even composite looks like rgb on that shit. i still have it stored away in my garage though cause crts are just inconveniently bulky especially when i can just click a filter in an emulator on any display i want and have a borderline identical look

>>8364606
>nah all /vr/ looks much better on my sharper jvc.
for 240p I'd always want .45< pitch over sharp >.30 pitch screens, too sharp sucks, even on shadow mask
and composite depends more on encoder, there's newer composite encoders that look better than 30 year old RGB encoders

>>8364424
>>8364576
>the image sharpness
just adjust your flyback voltage? done

>>8364619
its not too sharp its that my goldstar was getting so blurry it was hard to do shit like read text or just make out details
>>8364621
>just do electrician gobbledygook bro
also don't think it even had a recalibration feature

>>8364636
>also don't think it even had a recalibration feature
You use a screwdriver and adjust the potentiometers inside
Unless it's a Sony, then you use WinDAS software over a serial interface

>>8364645
well that's neat but its in storage at my parents' house and my jvc is better in every way anyway so eh. might tell my dad if he ever wants to use it again