/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7775336
Powered by emocore, you mean.

>Literally the dumbest graphics architecture of them all, consisting of raw throughput and brute forcing
>Meanwhile, Gamecube and Xbox especially allow for flexibility, enabling super clever and novel rendering techniques that the PS2 could not dream of imitating

>>7775336
>architected from the ground up to address developers concerns with existing shortcomings in game design
>not built upon aging technology like the competition, basically souped up voodoo graphics
>reinvented how graphics are rendered
>laid the foundation for the future SPU which defined the future of graphics technology
>flexible vector units allowed all kinds of high quality rendering techniques way beyond its time
>debuted numerous visual techniques on architecture from screenspace god rays to high dynamic range
>infinite bandwidth
>used to render high end cgi movies like final fantasy the spirits within
>performance was so unparalleled theoretically modern GPUs still have yet to surpass things such as transparency throughput
>alphas on modern graphics platforms still notoriously tank performance
>truly bespoke hardware platform and not some repurposed budget cut PC jank built for mass market planned obsolescence

>>7775618
There was no movies rendered with the ps2, you dipshit.

>>7775657
*laughs in GSCube*

>>7775657
>There was no movies rendered with the ps2, you dipshit.
Wrong

This whole thread is full of people who have literally no clue what they're talking about. Except for this guy >>7775584

>>7775673
That was the worst post in this thread, good job exposing yourself retard

>>7775678
Any objective analysis of EE supports the conclusion that it is over engineered and underperforms compared to its peers. Retard.

>>7775690
False. Also its peer is the Dreamcast, Xbox and GC are basically next gen in comparison due to how much later they came out.

>>7775584
>soulless (aka generic) hardware > soulful (aka authentic) hardware.

>>7775618
>basically souped up voodoo graphics
what the hell are you talking about, gamecube has an ATI card, xbox had a Geforce and dreamcast rejected the 3dFX proposal?

>>7775690
*laughs in Burnout 3*

>>7775696
>boring ass PC accelerators cut down to fit in a console
weak.

>>7775693
>GC is practically a gen ahead guise
>extremely unflattering GC vs PS2 comparison
You're not wrong when its strengths are being utilized but man what a weird, shitty post.

>>7775701
based, Nincels will never recover from getting burned by Criterion.

>>7775706
>>GC is practically a gen ahead guise
Yes. In layman's terms it's like FX5000 vs Ti4000. That kind of generation ahead.

>>7775702
Can you elaborate on what makes them "boring"? The ES is definitely the most programmable out of them but none are fixed pipeline (gamecube is sort of but not really), they're far beyond what Voodoo graphics manged

>>7775710
Not my point. When demonstrating this why show BG's extremely shitty port with busted ass lighting and no water rippling?

>>7775713
Off the shelf/cut down PC solutions are inherently boring. You can't go to a store and buy a Sony GS AGP card. You can buy a proper Geforce 3. They're plenty capable but their uniform way of achieving rendering makes them a lot less unique - PS2 for all its faults did require devs to make their approach to problems unique and more often than not it resulted in visually distinct games. SotC's fur rendering is very different than Conker's - Conker is more traditional and as a result looks like a typical rendering effect, you can basically see the pattern the math is following in its rendering of the effect. There's nothing wrong with this but when you see other games do it and they all have that stuffed animal fuzz to them SotC stands out by making the waffs of hair look as though each one is a singular strand of hair.
>they're far beyond what Voodoo graphics manged
They are, but in many ways they follow the same playbook, same rules and guidelines established just thrown in a console.

>>7775715
Is it a shitty port or could GC simply not do the same techniques?

>Emotion Engine
>Only emotion is apathy
What did they mean by this?

>>7775618
>not built upon aging technology like the competition

The PS2 GS is literally 16 PS1 GPUs chained together, with bilinear filtering and perspective correction + z-index added. It was EXTREMELY primitive by the time it came out, and developers hated it because it had extremely little memory and broken AA, so they had to manually program texture managers and software effects to mimic pixel and vertex shader functionality.

>>7775336
By having hardware that isn't shit.

>>7775989

>>7775989
soul
>>7775994
soulless

>>7775989
Is this to save on memory by not encoding mipmaps?

>>7775618
>>truly bespoke
Hi Richard.

>>7775989
>>7775994
Not a PS2 problem if the devs don't have the time or the skill to make it look better. and ps2 has games that looks better than timesplitters 3, complete invaliding your point.

>>7775336
Not as a good moniker as Blast Processing.

>>7776037
>and ps2 has games that looks better than timesplitters 3, complete invaliding your point.
You could say the same about Xbox. The fact that multiplats pushing neither console look better on the Xbox by default means a lot in and of itself.

>>7776069
That clay model look hasn't held up too well, shouldn't you be crying about the PS1 on /v/ right now?

>>7775336
What if you made a video game processor so powerful that it took the developers the entire life span of the console to figure out how to properly use it? Even if they're at Sony itself?

>>7775336
By making consoles that shat all over the PS2 graphically.

>>7776109
didn't translate to better games

>>7775336
They couldn't
PS2 is the peak of vidya

>>7776093

>>7775336
The only Emotion you give developers is frustration, they rather be programming on a Saturn.

>>7776159
No really, these games are ugly. Speaking as someone who adores the original Xbox.

>>7776182
You know what's even uglier? Texture shimmering, vertex color snapping, and interlacing filters.

>>7776187
No, I don't think those look bad. There are some great looking Xbox games, but this mud butt ain't it: >>7776069
>and interlacing filters
This is especially funny to me considering xbox has this on a hardware level lol

>>7776198
>No, I don't think those look bad
Are you blind?

>>7776208
Like you do know the Xbox has an interlacing filter right? If anything it has the softest image that gen. All consoles had games with filters, PS2's the only one that didn't enforce it on every game. You didn't seriously use that as an argument against it and expect it to fly by, right?

>>7775584

>but this mud butt ain't it
Who cares? It's one of those few games to show off how forward-looking the console was in terms of its capabilities. The fact that it looks like an ugly launch 7th gen game is a testament to its prowess.
I mean, I had to contrast it with the more "conservative" game posted previously. If all that matters is aesthetic pleasantness, the WebMs already say everything.
>>7776198
>This is especially funny to me considering xbox has this on a hardware level lol
And conversely, it has progressive scan on a system level.

>>7776220
>Who cares? It's one of those few games to show off how forward-looking the console was in terms of its capabilities.
I do, I like it when my games look nice and show off a piece of hardware I enjoy. I think the Xbox didn't have enough great devs working on it to really get the best out of the console. That and it wasn't very forward looking, it's just a directX console. Some devs did really good things with that, Bungie early on impressed a ton.
>The fact that it looks like an ugly launch 7th gen game
It looks like a typical ugly western Xbox game. Quit being hyperbolic, retard.
>And conversely, it has progressive scan on a system level.
Which unfortunately has very soft output on all encoder chips. Some of the softest component I've ever seen - speaking as someone with access to the two main official component cable variants. That and we didn't play games in progressive scan very often back then, most were 480i and composite - that's where Xbox could show off how blurry it could be.

>>7776228
>Which unfortunately has very soft output on all encoder chips
So you are blind.

>>7776234
lol you can see the subsampling issues even in that clip. God I wish the Xbox had better component. Focus, Conexant, Xcalibur, they all kinda suck. Here's a good one - technically forward thinking but pretty god damn ugly. I think it was the first game that used a differed renderer - when asked about it the programmer kinda brushed it off like he thought the whole thing was bullshit. Guess that's licensed games for you.

>>7776241
>lol you can see the subsampling issues even in that clip
I think I'll take that minor issue over the eye rape on display here >>7775989

>>7776228
Who's being hyperbolic here? Looking like a typical Western Xbox game? Please, nigga. The typical game looks something like Pandora Tomorrow, while Chaos Theory is in its own league together with a minority of titles.
Say what you want about this shift, but it's undeniably not negligible.

>Which unfortunately has very soft output on all encoder chips
I must admit that I haven't touched my Xbox (or a console for that matter) for a long time now, but I never noticed hideous filtering the same way I did on PS2 in some games. Either way, my more recent experience comes from analyzing high-quality captures from the original Xbox sourced around the internet. It's as sharp as I would expect.
Unless I have been seeing raw framebuffer captures all this time without being aware. If that's a thing, please let me know.

Are you perhaps referring to some general image softening/band-limiting of the signal output? I am specifically referring to the line-doubling anti-flicker filter found in many games that don't support progressive output.

Really, though, the PS2 filter is a consequence of a bigger problem, the lack of progressive scan. That's really the crux of it. Interlacing just kind of sucks in general.

>>7776301
xbox has always been soulless

the only thing original xbox had going on launch was halo and they only got that because MS bought out the company and took a game that was already ready to release on OS X and delayed it by a YEAR in order to have what was, at the time, the second best cinematic FPS adventure-shooter of all time. Halo was ready to go on the Mac when Bungee got bought out.

Since then there have been what, nearing ZERO notable Xbox games which are exclusives. Nothing. Nobody remembers a single Xbox game and with device-locked DRM'd un-pirateable games nobody will. Like all the modern consoles, it's the end of history. Nobody will emulate this shit in the future. It won't be possible, soon every game will run in an SGX or equivalent crypto-DRM locked container at ring -FF so you'll never be able to even see it with a debugger.

Retro gaming IS the future of gaming unless you like remakes, pay-per-session transactional gayming or free to play games where you just solve Captchas like here on 4chan.

>>7776441
>xbox has always been soulless
OG Xbox was literally Dreamcast 2.0.

>>7776441

>>7776159

>>7776448
3 sega games don't make it into Dreamcast 2.0, anon. Specially when Sega made more exclusive titles for PS2 than the XBOX.

>>7775694
>>7775997
>soul
this word needs to be filtered like soi

>>7776494
soulless

>>7776451
>Specially when Sega made more exclusive titles for PS2 than the XBOX.
That didn't happen in this reality though.

>>7776510
>two Shinobi games
>Altered Beast reboot
>Virtua Fighter 4/Evo
>Virtual On 3
>Sega Rally 3
>like 4 Shining games
>Phantasy Star Universe
>Sakura Taisen V
>Yakuza 1&2
>Thunder Force VI
>Sega Superstars Tennis
>Seaman 2

Probably some others, but you get the jist of it.

>>777653
You can really tell they didn't put any effort into their PS2 games. Xbox got much better games like JSRF, Orta, Crazy Taxi 3, HOTD 3, Outrun 2 and more.

>>7776551
I accidentally deleted the 4.
>>7776534

>>7776551
VF4 and the Yakuza games were very well received. Meanwhile CT3 was worse than the previous 2 games, Outrun 2 got an expansion that improved the original and was released for PS2 as well.

Nice try moving the goalposts though.

>>7776563
>Nice try moving the goalposts though.
There are more exclusive Sega games on Xbox though. They also happen to be of much higher quality than kusoge like Yakuza or games literally nobody plays like Virtua Fighter.

>>7776567
oh so you're trolling, gotcha.

>>7776448
I wonder why would you think that?

>>7776494
Would agree. I'm sick and fucking tired of that shit aesthetic soul zoomer meme shit

>>7776563
>Outrun 2 got an expansion that improved the original and was released for PS2 as well.
Xbox Outrun 2 is still the best way to play vanilla Outrun 2 outside of the arcade, all the 2006 versions are inferior to it in various ways and should only be played if you want to check out the new SP content, which vanilla obviously lacks.

>>7776494
>>7776628
Learn how to use filters before calling your mommy jannies to do it for you, retards.

>>7775336
>processes your reality
Heh nothin personnel kid

What's this "soul" business? Is Sony the fried chicken and watermelon of gaming?

>>7776448
dreamcast had soul, xbox lacks it

xbox never had it, other than halo nobody can even remember an exclusive that was good

>>7776710
>xbox never had it, other than halo nobody can even remember an exclusive that was good
Ninja Gaiden

>>7776718
Not an exclusive anymore, got ported to the PS3.

>so the console has two main CPUs, what are we gonna name them
>Tom and Jerry

>>7776727
if you use the "it was ported in subsequent generations" argument, then consoles barely have good exclusives. Don't be daft.

>>7776727
That "port" is worse in literally every way.

>>7776718
ninja gaiden is a fucking nintendo game

>>7776764
it actually came out to arcades first, get your facts straight.

>>7776774
This was debunked.

>>7775584
Surely you meant the complete opposite right? Xbox couldn't do MGS2 and Silent Hill 2 without downgrades, and the Gamecube couldn't even do Burnout 3, period. PS2 was literally the king of visual effects.

>>7776807
>Xbox couldn't do MGS2 and Silent Hill 2 without downgrades
Two lazy ports by Konami don't change the reality that the Xbox was a much more powerful machine in every way.

>>7775989
>>7775994
PS2 not having mip maps here sucks but Xbox not having AF to go with the filtering is just as bad.

>>7775336
does anyone believe PS9 will have brain interface like it was shown in PS2 commericals?>

>>7776814
>>7776807
While the anon you replied to isn’t right there was a lot of visual effects the PS2 was just faster at. Just as there was a lot the Dreamcast was faster at and the GameCube was. Obviously overall the OG Xbox pushed the most polys, was the most flexible and was the most powerful. The PS2s fill rate and rambus was nothing to snuff at though.

>>7776807
For every Burnout 3 that didn't appear on GC or MGS2 with worse texturing on Xbox there was a Resi 4 that needed a bespoke cutdown version for the PS2 or Splinter Cell that even of the reduced scope versions was by far worse on PS2.
I like the PS2 a lot but if I've got the choice I'm going to be playing multiplats on my Xbox almost every time.
>>7776851
The unstructured design of the Emotion Engine also led to developers implementing some neat effects that were harder to do on the otherwise more capable competition. Stuff like early depth of field faking or famously the atmospheric lighting effects in San Andreas.

PS2 Fat could take a HDD, mouse and keyboard. Years later and you can now soft mod them and fill a HDD full of games, and have a nice little collection right on the PS2. You'll also get much faster load times, some 480p mods, 16:9 hacks, among other things.

I still have my blaze xploder disk and still run games like MGS3 and SH3 in 480p. It's a shame really. There are quite a few games that run just fine in 480p. Most with black bars but it really helps get rid of those jaggies.

>>7775989
>>7775994
Gamers care about which games run the best and have the nicest controls not by how good the graphics look.

>>7777242
>which games run the best and have the nicest controls
Xbox version it is.

>>7775336
Didn't devs call this thing the "Negative Emotions Engine" because of how annoying it was?

>>7777243
For every multiplat? That simply is not true.

>>7777259
Pretty much every multiplat. It's easier to count the ones that aren't a complete upgrade on Xbox. SH2, MGS2 and Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2. The two Konami games are improved in some ways too.

>>7777262
Sure, let me get the discs for both consoles to test it out. Wait a second, no xbox dvd drives work anymore. So I can't even get into how lacking two shoulder buttons makes a lot of multiplats straight up unplayable.

>>7777262
No one in their right mind is going to play CvS2 or MvC2 on an xbox over other systems.

>>7777275
Nobody in their right mind is going to play that trash regardless.
>>7777273
>Wait a second, no xbox dvd drives work anymore
PS2 drives didn't work back in the console's heyday. Playing games off an Xbox HDD works perfectly, unlike OPL or HDloader on PS2.
>So I can't even get into how lacking two shoulder buttons makes a lot of multiplats straight up unplayable.
The real reason you can't is because that isn't true.

>>7775336
>how could Nintendo and Microsoft compete?
They simply couldn't, and that's why they got completely destroyed, not even sony themselves can repeat the sheer titanic effect that it's pure SOUL power had on the world.
Playstation 2 was pure late night gaming KINO and was the king of the last good gaming generation, after that gaming lost it soul, it still has moments of brilliance here and there but it will never return to it's form late 80's <-> early 2000s heavenly glory.

>>7777280
You will never be a real retro gamer. Back to /v/.

>>7777297
Cry more, poser.

>>7776448
>>7776610
No it not, that like saying GameCube was 3DO successor.

>>7776012
no the aliasing was result of shit looking interlacing but because it was significantly faster developers rarely used smooth interlacing.

>>7776807
>A myriad of transparent billboards constitutes a kingdom of visual effects
Thanks for proving my point, retard.

>>7775702
where's the fucking bump maps then
where are they

xbox had bump maps day 1

gamecubes overclocked successor had embm

where the fuck are ps2 bump maps you fruad

>>7775702
where's the fucking bump maps then
where are they

xbox had bump maps day 1

gamecubes overclocked successor had embm

where the fuck are ps2 bump maps you fruad

>>7777858
https://mmikk.github.io/papers3d/ps2_normalmapping.pdf

>>7776814
Both of those games have tons and tons of transparency effects, which the PS2 was easily the best at thanks to its massive fillrate.

But that's about the only thing the PS2 GPU was better at.

>>7776301
>Unless I have been seeing raw framebuffer captures all this time without being aware. If that's a thing, please let me know.
Yes this is a thing, with basically any custom dash you can do a screenshot much like you would in a windows PC. Some even give you the option to save as png or jpeg.

>>7775336
>literally powered by FAGGOT MEME WORD

>>7779001
why are millennials scared by words?

>>7779006
Why do zoomers think worn out meaningless buzzwords mean anything? See also: kino, aesthetic.

>>7776695
Nogs do tend to be PlayStation fans. Explains the low quality pro Sony posts that stink up this board.

>>7777292
Meme spouting retard.

>>7776218
Did you even read the source? They were lazy and didn't want to have to fix how fucked the fill coding was for Burnout to work on Cube. It has everything to do with how shit the ps2 was and how much the development had to rely on vram, fillrate, and the 2 display cache chips. Using the few crutches to make games run is pathetic. It is why so many ps2 games were interlaced.

>>7775747
DA "techniques" were nothing special. Lazy developers.

>>7776815
No.

>>7776112
????
You need to be 18 to post here

>>7776241
>Subsampling issues
Ah, the "I have no idea what the fuck I am talking about but read this somewhere" reply.

>>7779116
Seethe tranny you never gonna pass subhuman drooling mongoloid piece of shit.

>>7777292

>>7778991
Video captures too?

I'm pretty sure Digital Foundry uses authentic hardware, and their Xbox captures look good.

>>7777858
There are a few high quality PS2 games with bump maps. Ghost Hunter and Primal are two great examples.

Another game that arguably looks better on PS2 is Need For Speed Underground 2. I don't think the PS2 version had progressive scan but it had more effects than Xbox or GameCube. However, someone would need to try xploder and see if 480p works.

>>7779152
PS2 incredibly difficult to program.
Lazy devs.

Pick one.

>>7777242
So, the Xbox ?

>>7780228
Any screenshots? Hitman Blood Money should also have it, but it doesn't work under emulation.

>>7775715
This is why you shouldn't believe everything you see on YouTube. Played the game yesterday on gc. Has lighting effects and water rippling. Not sure why this idea still prevails.

>>7775336
>how could Nintendo and Microsoft compete?
With a PowerPC and Pentium 3, respectively.
aka PC GAYMAN faggotry

>>7776494
>soi
You mean s𝅺oy? That filter has been removed for a long time.

>>7775336
>how could Nintendo and Microsoft compete?
The rampant plebstation superiority complex was obnoxious during yhe 90s. Its obnoxious now. Get fucked snoyflake.

>>7783375
To be fair, the GC and PS2 are both fantastic systems. It's the Xbox that sucks because of its stupid controller and because it brought PC/online gaming hardcore into consoles, which in turn pushed console-style gaming into PCs a generation later.
Now everything is shitty

>>7783293
onions

>>7775693
Why are you posting a video of a game where the developer didn't even work on the GCN version?

>>7776037
Yes it is, it is entirely the PS2's fault if equal effort gives inadequate results. And no, there was no magic ceiling the xbox would run into that the PS2 wouldn't.

>>7776494
Actually what the board needs is moderation. If you want to make a topic about sixth gen hardware, cool, but if you come in and start using buzzwords then you should have a nice timeout for a few hours.

>>7783437
>Now everything is shitty
Sad but true.

>>7776718
That game is trash, lmao.

>>7775584
>Gamecube and Xbox especially allow for flexibility, enabling super clever and novel rendering techniques
The opposite actually. PS2s arch is much more flexible. But also a bitch to program

>You mean s𝅺oy? That filter has been removed for a long time.

Nice try.

>>7783293
>You mean s𝅺oy? That filter has been removed for a long time.

Nice try. There is a hidden character embedded.

>>7777292
What gaem? Is it good? It looks at the very least fun

>>7783763
Tales of Destiny - Director's Cut on PS2
There is a translation:
https://github.com/furiousg4m3r/Tales-of-Destiny-DC/releases

>>7783763
I have the physical copy if you want to buy it :^) bought it when it came out.

>>7783794
No thank you I don't buy gaems

>>7782869
Plenty of examples in this thread have already been brought up where Xbox is shown up to perform worse.

>>7776727
remake by a different director. not a port. 04 and black are still exclusive.

>>7783219
Power PC was never used on mainline PCs, and Sega was using them in the Arcade as early as 1996.

>>7785894
>Power PC was never used on mainline PCs

>what are Macs

>>7786151
>Macs

*wheeze*

>>7783465
Why is it mod cocksuckers always make the worst posts around?

>>7777292
>memearch Shit
and here is the reason of why this board is so shit nowadays anon >>7783465 notice that most of the shills are from their discord.

>>7775584
Gamecube especially produced some impressive results. There are titles on that thing which wouldn't look out of place today. Christ, Mario Sunshine looks barely worse than Mario Odyssee.

>>7786356
There is also the fact that Carmack and EPIC shat for known reasons on the PS2 and 3 hardware, which devs didn't heard and led to the graphical downgrade that it is nowadays that killed Parallax shaders and more on gaming

>>7775336
>literally powered by SOUL
literally powered by SHOVELWARE

>>7786404
pick one
>100 great titles, 300 decent titles, 1500 shovelware titles
>25 great titles, 50 decent titles, 300 shovelware titles
nintentards will pick #2 every time for some reason.

>>7786416
With less good games to play they don't have to think or pick.

>>7786404
you don't get to 150+ million units sold by selling shit

>>7786484
counterpoint

>>7786416
>100 great titles
500 great titles to be precise

>>7786514
mmmm I don't see mario or zelda on that list, ergo it's all shovelware

>>7775994
Mipmaps look like blurry ass

>>7787248
Trilinear > no mipmap > bilinear

>>7783098
I can do a capture if I get time. Ghost Hunter even had pretty neat water effects that even made the character clothes wet and moved and rippled as you walked through it.

>>7786531
mario and zelda are shovelware

>>7788638
After Mario 3 and Zelda 2 this is accurate.

>>7786514
You can play a majority of those elsewhere, at higher framerates, with progressive scan.

>>7775989
>>7775994
aren't you just comparing 480i to 480p?

>>7776187
What's that picture? Niggers fighting in a dark cave?

>>7789157
No, the filtering in the xbox version is clearly superior

>>7789157
Those are both 480i.

>>7789178
actually you're right, I remember something similar happening in quake with some filtering setting