/vr/ - Retro Games

I'm currently building a system for DOS/Win95 games that tend to have problems with Win98
Here's what I got:
>Super Socket 7
>Pentium 120MHz
>SB16
>S3 Savage4 Pro
>128MB RAM
>CF card for storage
Dual Booting DOS and 95 on separate partitions with BootMagic
GPU was chosen based on me having it already and decent DOS compatibility, but there's way better ones available
CPU could be changed for a K6-2+ for messing with SetMul

>>6437663
>Platform/CPU
I suggest Slot-1 or socket 370 to keep it slightly above requirements. Will be good if you want to run something like Blood above standard resolutions.
>Graphics
For best 2D compatibility try to go with some kind of s3 card, preferably Savage range. You can also do 3dfx Banshee/Voodoo3 if you can, but those are expensive these days.
>Sound
Best case would be a Soundblaster 16 with a genuine OPL2, but those are expensive and some have midi bugs. Some AWE64 versions are still cheap, but are crap at emulating Yamaha's OPL2 chip and overall just sound bad IMO.
Yamaha 719 cards are really good, cheap and compatible. So are ESS 1868/1869 cards.
If you're going PCI instead of ISA, Yamaha 724/744 cards are quite good for older games.

Socket 7 stuff has gotten really expensive lately, but check out socket 5. Supports pentiums plenty fast enough for your needs without as big of a retro tax.

>>6437663
For daggerfall you'll want absolutely no more than ~133 mhz.

>>6437727
Thing about earlier sockets is that they tend to be AT instead of ATX so you need a specific type of case and power supply to go with them.
Might not end up saving any money compared to a Super Socket 7 ATX board.

Thoughts on different Pentium 3 platforms?
Ideally, one would use the fastest available, but it apparently needs special compatibility for "server" chips. On the other hand, slower P3's can be used on the more revered 440BX chipset.
I happen to be right in the middle with a socketed Coppermine. Not sure if I should be satisfied with this.

>>6437826
P3 are great for 98, not good for pure DOS or even earlier 95 games.
Tualatin P3 aren't really worth it, might as well use an Athlon XP at that point.

>>6437872
Why not? Too rare?
Not really interested in AMD outside of Windows XP, but I want something that can comfortably run any game at a high resolution together with a Geforce 2 or better. Not sure if Coppermine is going to cut it for games released in 2000.

>>6437893
>Not sure if Coppermine is going to cut it for games released in 2000
Its all you need for 2000. Tualatins are expensive, have compatibility issues. Might as well just go with an Athlon or P4 system instead if you want more power.

>>6437663
Get a PowerPC Mac. No, seriously. Win95 and DOS games were better on Mac, and most of them came out for Mac anyway.

>>6437913
>Win95 and DOS games were better on Mac, and most of them came out for Mac anyway.

>>6437908
>Compatibility issues
Is that compatibility with motherboards or software? You'd think a CPU of the same microarchitecture would retain as much compatibility as possible.

>>6437995
>Is that compatibility with motherboards or software?
Motherboards. Most of the earlier S370 boards wont work with Tualatins.

>>6438108
I realize that, which is why I would only consider it with a Tualatin board.
I'm more concerned about the chipset. i815 apparently suffers in some areas.

>>6438838
>I'm more concerned about the chipset
Got a Tualatin CPU on a motherboard with a VIA chipset. works fine

>>6437893
>Not sure if Coppermine is going to cut it for games released in 2000.
How do you figure? OG Xbox was a pretty middle-of-the-road Coppermine with jack shit for RAM. a 1ghz P3 shouldn't be a problem for anything up through like 2003-4 as long as you've got the GPU for it.

>>6437663
i can understand wanting original consoles to play on, but why you would want old PC hardware is utterly beyond me

>>6439620

>>6437663
Part of what makes PCs interesting is how everything is custom pieced together almost unique to how the user feels is best within their means. In the mid 90s, I was still running with a 386DX2-40 which had served me well, but 486s were around and the Pentium was getting a lot of marketing push. I did convince an uncle to get a Pentium-75 which was still on Win3.11 at first before going Win95. I've been wanting to retrieve that machine and play around with it. I still have my 486DX4-100 for DOS games, but I am considering playing around with Super Socket 7 for the huge range of games it could work with. The games you mentioned, Simcity 2k, Fallout 1/2, Daggerfall, etc., seems more appropriate for a late 90s build which is more in line with the MMX or P2 line of computers. With computers being so custom, having "no compatibility issues" may be out of the question. With P2 you may be too fast to run the older DOS games, but possibly too slow for newer late 90s games like Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament without the proper 3D cards. Sound is also something which can be personalized, as some prefer Roland sound, some maybe Yamaha fits the bill, or some may not care for proper OPL and settle with emulation. Given the titles you mentioned, maybe something from Matrox for 2D, Voodoo 2 for 3D, SoundBlaster 16/Virba/AWE32/AWE64, all in a Pentium 2 package for a mid-90s with added parts of late 90s to cover the range. If you want more era-appropriate, possibly go with Super Socket 7 and a Pentium MMX. In that time, I just accepted there will be titles which I met the requirements/recommendations, and some which I would not, just aim for a range of titles most suitable for a build. If anything, you can always emulate, use a virtual machine, or find various compatibility layers with a more modern system to play almost any game.

Just scored 6 Voodoo 3's for a nice price.

>>6441992
Great! I just need one at a good price.

>>6442730
I'm a bit reluctant to share my source, since I don't want the supply to dry up too quickly.

>>6439814
Is that the UTbench from back in the day? It was notorious for high CPU usage and does not reflect real world performance. The only game that P3 wont run @ a stable 60fps was half-life, but that's only because the engine was pure jank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S4qCr77jJ8

>>6439814
700mhz p3's pretty close to bottom of the coppermine barrel phil. actually the 666mhz one's probably faster just from the better fsb.

>>6437913
>Recommends a PowerPC Mac
>Posts literally one of the worst PPC Macs ever

You're gonna want an Outrigger-style Mac for the best comfiness/performance ratio. Ideally the beige G3s.

Although I agree that the Mac versions of games were more polished than their Windows/DOS counterparts, saying that most of them came out on Mac anyways is just a blatant falsehood. Believe me, I lived through it.

>>6437663
The "right in the feels" build:
Socket 5, 7 or SS7
Pentium 100 to 233MHz (check what your board supports, SS7 supports all of them)
Sound blaster 16 or one of the good clones
64MB RAM (or more if your mainboard supports it)
Any PCI video card made after 1995
HDD for storage, the loader the better
CD or DVD drive

The late 1990s richfag build:
Pentium 3 1GHz socket 370 or Athlon
256MB RAM (Win9x crashes with more than 512MB btw)
Windows 98SE or ME, dual boot more modern OS if you want
Some high end ATI or Nvidia AGP card
Voodoo2 SLI
Sound Blaster AWE32 if you care about DOS, if not then a SB Live
PCI SATA adapter with a modern SSD for your data
DVD drive

The "I want the best win9x PC" build:
Core2 Duo
Mainboard with VIA chipset that has 9x drivers
512MB RAM (you can upgrade it to more if you patch Win9x)
SSD for storage, connected using VIA SATA RAID onboard
Geforce 7900GTX with modded drivers if you want the best GPU, GeForce5 PCX if you want good backward compatibility

>>6437816
AT boards should fit into ATX cases
You'll need an old PSu anyway because the new ones don't have all the voltages required for ISA cards

>>6441992
Define nice

>>6444958
Unless you're gonna use an SB Pro, chances are you won't need -5v. Very few ISA cards ever used it.
The lack of a proper 5A rail is more a problem than anything but even then you should be fine unless you go to a Socket A system, then you're gonna wanna look closer at it.

>>6445012
*+5V rail

>>6443787
So how much do you sell one of your six+ voodoo 3 machines for?

I don't think vintage hardware is worth the price these days, man. Have you looked into dosbox? Modern CPUs are fast enough. Some old games, like Monolith's original version of blood, scaled 4:3 resolutions unlimitedly if memory serves. Old hardware can't handle 4k 4:3.

>>6445273
Well, I haven't sold anything just yet. Not sure exactly how much I'm going to sell them for, but I might cut some of my friends a good deal on them.
Don't have enough full systems for myself that I'd consider selling them off, except for maybe my Dell Dimension 4100. Might be able to get a pretty penny for that if I stick a Voodoo 3 in there, already has a PIII 1ghz and an Aureal Vortex, as well as a GeForce 4 MX.

>>6445286
I still use DOSBox quite often, but it's never as nice as real hardware when it comes to later games, like any of the BUILD engine stuff. If I'm not using a sourceport, I want it to be as classic as possible, on a CRT as well. Not to mention all of the Win9x titles that don't run so well on modern systems, for one reason or another, which, sure, PCem exists, but it's still nicer to have a real system.