/vr/ - Retro Games

rtfm

>>5948259
DISCLAIMER: I'm going to talk about extremes here, to make my points as understandable as possible.

You're indirectly telling me that you need skill points in order to get AP or surpass/go even with high Agility builds? I mean...: you need SP to get your hit chance up, that's true, but if you hit somebody 95% of the time ONCE PER ROUND, you have NOT become good at combat through skill points. And who says that with max AG, I'm not going to be able to have high INT/max out combat stats? That didn't make sense at all, CJOLL.

1/3

>>5948260
And, as a "long time" Fallout 2 player, you should already know that Matt's wrong either way, since there is VERY SPECIFIC way of distributing your S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats at the beginning, with Intelligence ending up at 7 and Agility at 9 (or 8 with the Restoration Project) in order to get every stat except endurance (most worthless stat once you're already leveled up) up to 10 BEFORE you get to a point of no return during the main quest line. So he's even objectively wrong and you agreeing with him is just very sad.

Why I wrote that? Because he possibly creates frustrating experiences by posting his unwanted [because worthless (because: simply false)] opinion, which can be read by new players who are about to create a character. I'm just being the necessary evil here, making it incredibly clear that that's just wrong. As I've said, there is a VERY SPECIFIC WAY of distributing your S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats; unsophisticated opinions are worthless in comparison to stone cold facts, but the average sheep disagrees with that anway.

2/4

>>5948264
Also: S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats are very.... special; there are very few ways to modify them permanently, whereas you can literally force random encounters all day long for as long as you want or pickpocket your idle party members for 249XP (7 individual items or 7 caps, one by one) over and over again and become level 2599 with your 1 INT and still get every stat up to 300% (You only need combat skills to be above 100, except for Science at 180 and Speech at 120 or 130, anyways - HELLO?). How can you get from 1 AG to 10 in game, "long time" player? REMEMBER: Matt's sole argument was that it gives you many SP, which can be overcome this way, whereas there is no other way of getting to 13 AP + 6 movement AP other than having 10 AG.

Here's a little bit of my opinion: With the "Bonus Rate of Fire" perk and the "Fast Shot" trait you're able to reduce the cost of firing shots by 2 at the cost of not being able to execute aimed shots, which in turn can be overcome by having the "Sniper" and "Better Criticals" perks, with "Sniper" giving you a 100% crit chance at 10 Luck (9% + 90% = 99% at 9 Luck and yes, "More Criticals" is LITERALLY useless) and the "Better Criticals" perk giving you a chance of one-hitting anybody when hitting a critical strike, almost completely overcoming the drawback of the "Fast Shot" trait. The cost reduction of 2 AP per shot can make your AP up to 3,25 times more effective (AP = 13; shot cost = 3; 1st case 13:3=4 shots; 2nd case 13:1= 13 shots; 13:4= 3,25), further emphasizing how incredibly good AP and in turn AG really are, while there is not a single way of further capitalizing on 10 INT.

>>5948260
>>5948264
>>5948267
look bro, older games were intended to be played after at least glancing at the manual.
If you just jump into a new game, have no idea how the game's systems work, create a custom character instead of using the pre-made classes, and then get fucked because you didn't know what you were doing, that's on you.

>>5948267


And finally: Yes, high INT opens up many dailogue options, but none of these are required to beat any quest in the game ;) Additionally, 1 INT opens up MORE dialogue otions, which are, btw, hilarious. Yes, with 1 INT you are not able to accept many quests, but then the statement becomes "it is more important not to have low intelligence, than having low agility", which is very true, but a completely different statement.

Closing words: [INTELLIGENCE 7] Matt said that INT is BETTER than AG. "Better" is a word used in the context of optimization and min-maxing, which is a mathematical subject and thus 100% objective. IT IS FINE TO PLAY THE WAY YOU LIKE TO PLAY, but please do not raise your personal (=subjective) preferences to an objevtive level and make it public, possibly influencing inexperienced people who are just looking for good advice. AG is more important than INT (that doesn't mean 10 AG and 1 INT is fine, since there are 5 other stats that are naturally connected to how you distribute your points and since there are S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stat requirements for perks) and I'm fairly certain that I was able to prove that.

>>5948253
if you weren't a retard you'd know you're supposed to reroll your starting character about 10 times before beginning to play the game proper
every CRPG has been that way since the inception of the genre

fallout's arguably more forgiving than most, but you're still supposed to die a lot before you learn what you're doing and how best to do it

>Poor pacing of content, you get to the biggest city with the best shops and the most quests in the first half an hour of play.
>Despite its main distinction being its mesh of steampunk and generic fantasy, tech is far weaker than magic or even a low int neutral. More on that later, but there is no reason to pick guns over bows or melee.
>Firearms start off very weak and only get decent in the very lategame, bullets are the most expensive ammo type and aren't as avaliable as arrows. Bows in Arcanum cannot blow your head off unless you are an expert like firearms will and at higher skill levels they are literal machineguns that will kill everything in real time combat in seconds. The main advantage that guns have over bows (range) is wasted utterly because of the encounter and area design. Tech characters can craft swords or even bows that will outperform any gun that doesn't become avaliable in the super late game.
>Some side quests will give you huge amounts of good karma. Considering that there are companions in the game who will only join you if you are evil and that there is a whole seperate main quest branch that is only avaliable to you if you have negative karma this is awful. This forces you to pick Sold your soul background at the start, abuse bugged items or to act like a school shooter.
>Backstab damage doesn't scale from your weapon, it scales on your skill only. This means that the only stat important for a backstabber is speed, making most of the daggers in the game pointless. Furthermore the Mastery perk for Backstab enables you to have the skill active even when using swords, hammers or axes which is even more pointless because backstab will be one-shotting almost everything in the game.
>The map is huge but the towns are too far apart, making it feel like the world is mostly a wasteland. And it is.

>>5948381
>Random encounters are utter whack. You can get jumped whilst moving from Shrouded Hills to Tarant by 6 wolves who will cause a TPK without fail. Unlike in Fallout where this can be avoided by just having high agility and running to the edge of the map or tagging outdoorsman like a retard in Arcanum you CANNOT run from random encounters unless you are solo and mash to enter turn based mode, move away with your high DEX character until the AI bugs out and lets you travel. After the early game random encounters become a nuissance that will just force you to stop hearing the beautiful main theme whilst traveling the world map and blare the awful single combat music 8 second loop you've been listening to for the majority of the game.
>Mages have a bizzare progression. Each school of magic has 5 spells. Some of these, but not all, will scale off the mages Magic aptitude. lf you pick a good background for a spellcaster and just focus on that you'll get to max magic aptitude at like level 20, which enables you to kill everything by casting Harm (FIRST LEVEL SPELL in black necromancy school) a few times or to materialize level 50 Ogre Destroyers with maxed out melee and dodge, wearing barbarian armor and weilding greatswords with Summon Ogre (level 3 spell in Summoning school). Enjoy the next 20 hours of the game during which your character will not advance at all as a spellcaster except gaining the mastery of a single school in Tulla, which doesnt give you anything new and just halves your fatigue use on those spells. And by that point that is utterly useless.
>Speaking of utterly useless, several dozen magic schools fit this category. Most insulting of all is Meta. Despite 95% of the dungeons being just stuffed with Magic creatures are almost no real hostile spellcasters in this game. Those that do exist will just buff themselves before charging into melee, or their casting AI is so piss poor they won't cast anything impactful in the slightest.

I played both FO1 and 2 recently, and 2 is definitely way, way, way harder. Not only have the weapon stats and enemy health been cranked up by a noticeable amount, but the actual fights are way harder. In Fallout 1, the toughest enemies you can encounter in the overworld (besides mutant patrols near the base) are like 4 raiders. In 2, you can run into huge amount of slavers, raiders, etc all in the early game. And then there's bullshit like fire geckos, deathclaws, and wanamingos. If raiders with burst weapons in early game didn't wreck your shit, these guys will. And then there's the Encalve soldiers which is pretty much game over whenever you see one. And in Fallout 2 you don't even get your first gun until town 1 or 2.

>>5948415
>The final boss is a spellcaster but Meta is useless against him too because he functions by spawning unobtainable scrolls into his inventory.
>The encounter design is a god damn travesty, and this is coupled with the bad core systems. 99% of enemies have only one tactic, that being charging straight into melee and hitting you until you are dead. The problem here is that they are all fast enough to reach you in a single turn, thus making guns even more shit.

Think that's it. I tried to focus on actual design flaws. If I went into how many other things were useless, broken, or just fucked this would take at least two more full posts. Didn't touch upon prowling, or the issues with the towns themselves or any balance beyond the one weapon type that should have been good not being good at all.

This game deserves more flak or this genre will remain dead in the mud forever. It did the crpg reactivity part somewhat well but everything else is atrocious. Build variety is pointless when nothing works as it should.

RTFM, cunt

Pic related is from a neat little LoTR game made back in the early 90s. As an adaptation of Tolkien's books, it's unsurpassed, but as a game in and of itself, it has some flaws.

Pic related has us with a party of Frodo, Sam, and Pippin at a chasm. You'd need to use the jump skill to get the party across, but as long as someone in the party has the skill, you have an 100% success rate and everyone can jump over from the skill of one party member. A lot of the non-combat hazards in the game are structured like that, which means that as you expand the Fellowship, the amount of things that can actually hurt you drop lower and lower and lower, leading to the trivialization of all challenge somewhere at the point of 6 fellowship members. It's a shame, because they had some really neat ideas, counterbalanced with a whole lot of utter crap.

>>5948267
You cannot pick pocket party members for xp. Its how you access their inventory.

Rant discarded, he never played the game

>>5948264
Oh, no! God forbid any gamer ever have to go through a f-f-f-frustrating experience!

You are the cancer that turned modern video games to hand-holding, questmarking, worthless fucking garbage. I hate you and hope you die.

>>5948924

>play that once
>spend 5 hours looking for Bilbo's pipe in some cave

nope

In Master of Orion 2 you can make use of biological weapons to bombard planets to wipe out any resistance whilst leaving the infrastructure unharmed. This gives you a higher chance to capture tech from the foe.
The issue is that this incurs a large diplomatic penalty because you are commiting a war crime, yet glassing the planet with bombs has no such effect. Neither does ripping it apart with a stellar converter count as a war crime.
Bombs are already a somewhat useless thing to take on your ships if you are playing unpatched, but the effectiveness of bio weapons is further reduced by the fact that certain passive research in the biology tree will halve, quarter or even fully negate their effects.

BUMP

You don't know how broken F2's gameplay truly is until you try a Melee/Throw build

>wahhhh! Why is game so HARD? Game only fun if stats are all "10"
Its the fun of exploring all the possibilities. Sometimes making a bad character can yield the best challenges

>>5951772
I never really liked Fallout for its gameplay, so I never really experimented. What makes it so broken?

>>5951842
Melee weapons suck really bad.

Theres a feat that sounds like it should be +2 to melee damage so 1-6 becomes 3-8. It's not. It become 1-8. Almost useless.

Hitting someone with a sledge or super sledge is awful because they get knocked flying away from you so you have to waste ap moving up there to hit then again.

If you throw a flare at someone it takes 1 ap from them I think.

Grenades are pretty good

I dunno what hes actually thinking about though.

>>5948268
You haven’t seen the fallout 2 manual have you?

>>5948253

Resting in Wizardry:
You get to pick from various establishments with different amounts of HP you heal per week and varying cost.
The idea should be that you balance your expense against the threat of aging.
What every player does however is use magic to heal wounds since spells are automatically restored upon entering town.
The mechanic was broken from the start yet all Wizardry games aside from 6-8 kept it.

>>5952004
How is his complaint not valid, faggot?

>>5952024
RTFM

>>5952023
>Game has mechanic for schmuck to use
>Game also has a sensible mechanics to have
>Whaaa, why am I penalised for being retarded
I swear to God, people really fucking suck at cRPG

>>5952023
I believe the games (technically only Wiz 5 actually; 2-3 had to keep the same mechanics because they're pretty much just glorified expansion packs, and 4 didn't have any inns at all) kept it as a cheeky inside joke, kinda like how TES keep mentioning sweetrolls in the introduction. Even the japanese Wizardry games (Elminage etc.) feature the exact same mechanic and exploit.

>>5952024
The game tells you that you need AP, which you get from agility, to perform combat actions. You don't even need the manual for that, the game tells you what every stat does in the character creation screen. Complaining about how you need agility to be good at fighting is like complaining that you need charisma for speech checks. And combat is pretty much completely optional in Fallout, so a low-agility character can be completely playable, anyway.

Literally about 4/5 of this entire game is utterly meaningless from a mechanical perspective if you want to play to win. It's the sort of game where you usually win by conquering the map, and to do that you need a military. Soldiers are raised, and then go to forts to train, where they increase in combat by virtue of having a general with good leadership.

Then they decided to graft on to it this really complex and on its own quite interesting set of mechanics for economic activiity, mining, trade, manufacture, research, etc., but after you have enough cash to support your army, the rest of it really means very little.

>>5952028
Wrong reply? Your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

>>5952226
Not him, but he's going for the tryhard edgelord angle; clearly wrong and stupid choices are there to punish "poor players", and you must therefore be one of them if you're complaining about this.

>>5952003
I've only read the Fallout 1 manual, to be honest.
Although, to be fair, Fallout 2 did have a tutorial segment, or something, right?
I've also only played Fallout 1.

>>5952024
Because if he bothered to read descriptions of things just inside the char-gen window, he would knew more than enough on how to make a character.
Right now he's no different from faggots that (intentionally) make shitty characters with no combat quality and then bitch on /vr/ how "bad" FO combat is, because lo and behold, with 35% in Unarmed, they were unable to hit a rat

>>5952237
There is nothing tryhard about claiming devs in the 80s were intentionally fucking players over in cRPGs. You would know, if you'd played any. It's not a bug, it's not an exploit, it's not an oversight. It's all fucking intentional, especially if a game has macro or macro-based mechanics.

>>5952176
>you need charisma for speech checks
Except you don't. You can totally be master diplomancer with CHA 2.

>>5952176
>combat is pretty much completely optional in Fallout
Oh yes that's right, I can just use my charisma to convince the glowing ones to not chew my face off! Why didn't I think of that?
I wish people would stop perpetuating this meme. Yes, you can technically beat the game without getting into any fights, but you're also forfeiting 60% of the game's content by doing so.

>>5952735
What kind of macros does Wizardry have?

>>5952909
>Yes, you can technically beat the game without getting into any fights, but you're also forfeiting 60% of the game's content by doing so.
And here's the old dilemma: should every type of character be able to explore ALL content in a game?

>>5953609
I can support forfeiting certain facets of the game for the sake of build diversity and re-playability, but when you're losing out on that much, and when what you're missing out on is usually all the fun parts, it doesn't give much incentive to ever play a speech character.

>>5953787
... have you tried Arcanum?
Extra points for the fact Arcanum's combat is a pile of dogshit, so you want to avoid as much of that crap as only feasible.
Or Planescape, for that matter, where combat is something you want to actively ignore and the entire game is basically a western visual novel.

>>5953867
Obviously it's personal preference, but for most people infiltrating an enemy stronghold and sneaking through/going in guns blazing is much more fun than convincing them to just let you in. Plus it's much harder to make dialogue more interesting than combat. Not impossible, but most games don't succeed with it.

>>5953879
Like you've said, it's extemely personal. Besides, what you described is best done in stealth games, not RPGs.

>>5952795
Yeah, you're right. I guess a better example would be a low-strength character not being able to carry anything.
>>5952909
You're sacrificing content no matter what kind of character you play. If your speech, repair, or intelligence aren't all high enough, you miss out on quest paths, and if your combat skills suck, you won't be able to fight everything. All enemies can either be sneaked past or ran away from. Obviously, most people, myself included, wouldn't enjoy playing in this way, but it's still an option for those who do.

>Master of Magic

Picking a single color and going all-in is always better than mixing and matching books and special abilities, which was a big point of the game.

>>5953932
Did any of it's copycats fix this?

>>5954328
Age of Wonders did. Along with most of MoM issues. Which causes brain-damage to MoM fandom, because they get aneurysm whenever someone brings AoW as improvement of their half-finished, half-baked game

>>5948260
>>5948264
>>5948267
imagine ranting this hard about a game you never played only to get btfo out those that actually did

>>5948381
>Some side quests will give you huge amounts of good karma. Considering that there are companions in the game who will only join you if you are evil and that there is a whole seperate main quest branch that is only avaliable to you if you have negative karma this is awful. This forces you to pick Sold your soul background at the start, abuse bugged items or to act like a school shooter.
Excuse me, are you actually bitching about the fact that to have an evil character you have to conduct acts of evil?
I mean the whole rant is nonsensical, but this bit absolutely takes it

>>5948417
get good noob

>>5948264
>Intelligence ending up at 7 and Agility at 9
>optimizing for late game power
Start with AG 10 and play ironman style. And endurance isn't a dump stat when your character can't magically resurrect by the power of savegames. Even if you're using savegames, 10 starting AP is much more fun than a minor power boost when you don't need it.

>>5954387
would you still say MoM is worth playing?
Big into AoW 1 right now but 2 seemed not greatMerlin the wizard, fucking really? and Azracs turning into cats was bullshit

>>5954410
>Excuse me, are you actually bitching about the fact that to have an evil character you have to conduct acts of evil?
Excuse me, but have you actually played the game? The acts of evil in Arcanum consist of being the personification of Chaotic Stupid.
In Fallout 1 and 2 there are a fuckton of quests where the bad karma route makes complete sense to take if your character is greedy or simply a sellsword, in Arcanum there are almost none of these in the game at all. The only bad karma choice that isn't "ill kill you now for no reason at all" is the peaceful resolution of the P Schyler & Sons issue, which is part of the main quest.
What about the 3 main evil companions in the game, do you want me to talk about how it does not make any sense for two of them to be locked off in karma other than because they needed more content for an evil playthrough so they locked Torian Kel and Zan Alurin behind those checks, despite the fact that it makes 0 sense for Torian to refuse to join you because you literaly just restored his body and Zan talks about how she has a crisis of faith, feels how dark elf behaviour is wrong and wants to join you to get away from her fanatical bretheren?
>I mean the whole rant is nonsensical, but this bit absolutely takes it
Haha yeah dude Meta is totally worth taking, spells scaling off Magick aptitude which effectively makes mage character development stop after level 20 out of a 50 level cap is totally ok, random encounters aren't broken and the enemies you fight are well designed.

>>5948268
>>5952003

>>5954410
>being a greedy, self serving merc in fo1/2
>vs
>being a saturday morning cartoon villian in arcanum
arcanum is a cool as fuck setting but the writing in that game is pure shite, m8

>>5953908
>not being the chad diplosniper that succeeds at everything

>>5948938
Developers made games like that so people would not be frustrated and therefore buy them for $$$$. Developers need to be looked at as well, not just consumers.

>>5954691
I like to keep a balance of all skills that I find useful, but I usually end up needing to make a compromise at some point.

>>5954509
I loved 2, but I was and am a big casual and just played it for the pretty grafix.
Shadow Magic is supposedly a big improvement if you haven't tried it. UI is slightly less comfy in my opinion tho.

>>5954782
You're not buying enough skill books then

Vump

>>5948253
>Fallout: A Post Nuclear Role Playing Game
>Role Playing
The point of Role Playing games is not to minmax your character, but to create the character you want to play as. If you want to play a clumsy character, you should be able to.

>>5954691
>Playing as diplosniper
That's the most virgin thing to do

>>5954601
Different anon, but in Arcanum, your PC is supposed to be the incarnation of THE Goodie-Two-Shoes of the entire setting. So it makes sense that your "evil" acts are over the top mustache twirling. Of course you are not, but that doesn't come into play until late game.

>>5954509
Original anon here and yup, MoM is perfectly playable. It's clunky, but in the nice way. If you approach it with the attitude of "this game is old and was a trail-blazer", then it's fun. It only stops being fun when you give it the worship fandom does, pretending the flaws doesn't exist and shitting on genuine improvement of the concept in form of AoW.
Also, Tigrans are best race, what the fuck you want from them?

>>5954814
Shadow Magic helps predominately by adding random map generator, which the baseline game lacked and which contributed to losing competition against HoMM3. That and few other handful options and upgrades

>>5951830
based enlightened gamer

>>5948253
Any of the old RPG games where you roll for your character. The RNG is notoriously bad, while in the same time those games expect from you to roll for as long as you eventually get some OP combo. Extra points of shit design if you can't ever increase your stats, but they are vital part of the gameplay.

>>5957503
Frankly I wish I’d played more of these games with random stats and if I ever do replay them or play another, I will be doing it. If you play BG2 for example with a “gifted” character it’s only a matter of time before you become too powerful. Whereas if you have shitty Dex or Strength you have to compensate with gear or spells which balances you out.

After a while I realized how dumb it was that people would just reroll endlessly, this is tantamount to cheating. You may as well just hack the stats in at that point and save the meaningless busywork. Which is exactly what I did, until I realized that too was stupid.

>>5954601
The problem with being evil in RPG which few, if any managed to properly escape is that you can't really know what you can and can not do unless asked. This makes your character reactive and not pro-active, which works for good guys but not for bad guys - smart bad guy need to plan ahead.
In addition, in many cases sensible evil option would be to do nothing, which is difficult to register, in addition to the fact that we play games to do things.

The first Mass Effect game.
At the very end, if your paragon level is high enough, you can talk whats his name into just fucking shooting himself. I thought that was amazing.
...at least until he turns into a generic red bullet sponge and starts leapfrogging off the walls, because I guess you can't just end it like that.

If the game would've ended with him just killing himself, I would've stood up and fucking clapped, game of the year for my entire life.

>>5948253
No one cares because any build deficiencies can be fixed by snorting a shitload of drugs which stack and easily raise attributes to 10. I stopped picking Gifted or maxing AG after realizing there are two different +AG boosting drugs and way too much money just from playing the game. Fallout isn't that hard.

>>5957565
Baldur's Gate isn't hard even with average stats because most of them aren't that useful or dramatic and multiple items set your stats at a certain level instead of being static boosts. That, and most of the NPCs in the game have pretty damn above average stats, so you might as well aim for their power level.

Also if you want a harder game install difficulty mods.

>>5957565
See, the problem with those games is that there is nothing to balance with. If you have shit stats, then you have shit stats, period. Your entire experience boils down to eventually hitting the glass ceiling of your stats and being unable to continue.

>>5957768
>The first Mass Effect game.
>>>/v/

>>5958185
You can easily beat Baldur's Gate with a character that has all 9s. Don't know what you're getting at.

>>5958193
>Talk about 80s RPG
>B-but in Baldur's Gate...
Nobody but you mentioned BG

>>5948253
I think the point was that if you use melee weapons when there are guns you're a fucking schmuck.

>>5958198
other than like four other posters, yes

>>5959338
Is it spectrum or just common stupidity?

>>5959863
you mean in your case? because the poster quoted a poster who specifically was answering to a question relating to BG2, and Baldur's Gate appeared in this thread more than any references to 80s RPGs

I mean, I know that RPG grognards are generally surprisingly illiterate, but damn, anon

>>5952645
FO2's tutorial segment is the worst part of the game and basically teaches you nothing. It's an anti-tutorial.

I say this as a full on 'bethesda doesn't make canon games' Black Isle fanboy. FO2's start is fucking rough.

I beat Fallout 1 when I was 13 with no internet having no idea what a good build is. Just play the game and learn from your mistakes, I think I made 3 attempts at 1 before I made a character that actually made it to endgame. I had more fun playing that than ever trying to metagame anything else in the genre. Number crunching is fucking soulless I suggest making a character in your head and giving them stats that make sense. Read the manual of course and install fan patches to fix bugs but otherwise just go in blind and experience the game. You'll never lose motivation to beat an RPG faster when you already have everything mapped out before you've even started, gameplay just devolves into going through the motions.

>>5949535
This isn't that different from how IRL warfare is reported on by the corporate media, though. Somehow gas is a terrible war crime, but stuff like rupturing people's lungs with the over/under pressure pulse of thermobaric weapons and leaving them to drown in their own blood is just fine.

>>5948253
Fallout isn't a hard game, and there's zero need to make an optimal combat build

>>5960441
Good point. Still a bit weird for a wepon that has its own firing cutscene
https://youtu.be/4dO01h3d2xs

>>5956142
Too bad the game actively encourages you to metagame and punishes you for roleplaying. Ever tried playing a Scientist character? Not fun. 90% of your time is spent running from rats and 10% is spent actually being a scientist. The classic Fallouts had very few opportunities to actually roleplay.

>>5961442
>t. never played Fallout for longer than 15 minutes

>>5962158
t. makes shit up instead of actually trying to make any sort of argument

Go on, tell me when having a good science skill actually has an impact on the story?

>>5962230
In Fallout 2 you need a high science skill to get the cybernetic brain for Skynet and it helps finding a cure for Jet.

>>5962249
That's retarded

>>5962249
>most science checks are inside a computer so you can't market Myron fo them

Reeeee

>>5954691
pathetic, unarmed is the only way

>>5962249
It does? The Skynet does not do anything for curing Jet, AFAIK...

>>5962258
You need to talk with Myron for the cure.

>>5962259
no you don't, if you give a sample to the doctor in vault city he will come up with the cure after few weeks

>>5962264
That's just one way of doing it. Another is to talk to Myron first and have high enough science to come up with a cure together.

>>5962230
>Get to Vic (using techno-babble to Slaver on guard duty)
>Get information from Vault City medical database about combat implants
>Extra options in Vault City's computers
>Jet cure quest, with few different approaches to it
>Using automated repair procedure in Gecko (most exp)
>Fixing Broken Hills power generator and making it work better
>Wright's stills can be fucked up with Science without triggering combat or aggression
>Hacking SAD's computers to turn off all forcefields and for good, along with additional fuckery with the base, security, automation and traps
>Skynet interaction and building proper body for it
>Fixing NCR power station if Jack kills himself
>Mutagenic serum quest
>One of ways to free slaves in NCR is Science-based
>Getting electricity back to Vault 15
>Getting location for Vault 13 from Vault 15 computer
>Finishing the quest regarding Darion's presence (you need Science check to get the spy holotape from his computer)
>A whole lot quests in San Fran require very high Science checks, since you keep hacking into a lot of computers
>Navarro has another slew of Science checks for various hackings and fixing K-9
>Enclave again has a lot of handy hacking (not to mention you can blow yourself up if you don't have high Science)
And those aren't some obscure checks or hidden lore, it's a generic quest-solving. Hence why you are a retard who never played the game.
I'm not going to do the same list for Fallout 1, since you got stuck in a cave around Vault 13 anyway. Now fuck off

>>5962258
Your reading comprehension is absolutely terrible. Did you even notice there was an "and" in the sentence?

>>5962735
Not him but to me this is still an example of shit design. The vault dweller and chosen one may as well canonically have science tagged because so much of the game is solved applying it. Its actually not as bad in 3 or nv, while 4 made it worse by making it nothing but loot.

>>5962735
Most of these require such a low Science% that you don't even have to be a dedicated scientist; any character with okay smarts can read a few Big Books of Science and have more than enough skillpoints for any of those. Everything else is niche (wow, one of the 12 different ways you can free Vic happens to be an obscure skill check!). Most of the checks you refer to are like 50%, which doesn't incentivize a scientist character. Waiting for the entire game as a Science tagger only so that I can resolve like 2-3 questlines in the very end game is a joke. And some are wrong too:
>Get information from Vault City medical database about combat implants
This is based off Doctor, as well as almost everything that has to do with VC computers
>fixing the plant
You don't need Science for this, any character can do it. The correct route is reading the Solar System backwards. You can do this with trial and error, too.
Most of the shit you wrote is pointless and scarce in the game, has better alternative routes or doesn't require hard investment into the skill. You will go through like four cities before you interact with your first computer, and even then VC primarily cares about Doctor, while Gecko's only Science check is miniscule and is the Enclave soldier easter egg.

>>5962776
>It's bad, because I say so
M'kay, Totally-Different-Anon-kun.

>>5962785
>This is based off Doctor, as well as almost everything that has to do with VC computers
You can use Science instead
>You don't need Science for this, any character can do it.
Like I've said, never played the game.
Get fucked

>>5948253
A lot of people are making really stupid replies to defend this, but to be fair, the game, as it was released back in the day, came with an elaborate and well made survival guide in the box to read if you chose to make a character with custom stats instead of picking a premade one. It still comes with a pdf version of it but no one would know now to check it out.

>>5962787
>You can use Science instead
You literally can't
>Like I've said, never played the game.
I love how the defense against spewing falsehoods and exaggerations is that only you have ever played the game
kill yourself

>>5963002
You mean how every single game back in the day openly expected from its players to read the manuals and the manuals themselves were top quality stuff, rather than key-binding list?
I mean anyone old enough to remember Fallout premiere definitely remembers, but those people aren't bitching about it, either.

>>5963085
This shit came up in almost every european history class I ever took.

>>5963117
>This shit came up in almost every european history class I ever took.
... the importance of reading manual for ability to play Darklands?

>>5963117
But more seriously, I pity you for having such a terrible educational experience that it boiled down to handling you over early 90s RPGs as point of reference for history, rather than a book or fifteen. And you probably paid for that, too. Even get in debt.

>>5963054
>Gets proven wrong
>N-no, you!
Predictable. Boring.

>>5963121
It's been a good starting point.

>>5963124
You didn't prove me wrong for shit
The skill checks in Vault City are almost all Doctor and not Science; you use Science to access them like with every other computer, BUT the game still counts them off your Doctor skill
There is no Science skill check when fixing the Gecko power plant

>>5963130
That's probably how your professors got into their degree, so go figure. I ended up on sinology, because I wrote once a shitty article for a shitty local newspaper about the exhibition in shitty local museum regarding shitty selection of really shitty Chinese ceramics. Saw them once more when I was properly "trained" and they turned out to be even worse than I assumed as a layman.
Compared with that, "I played vidya" doesn't sound that bad for a story why you got a degree. Plus you could always end up studying history because you saw Indiana Jones. That's how 2/3 of archeology used to recruit. Then they've upgraded to Lara Croft.

>>5963135
I bet you don't even know you can send a robot to replace the part. Or talk with this guy. Or that the game can be designed around checking various skills and stats, so various builds can approach the same quest in a slighly (or diametrically) different way.
How could you, if you never played the game?

>>5962735
My mistake I thought we were talking about Fallout, not Fallout 2. Not sure why I made that mistake consider all you said
>>t. never played Fallout for longer than 15 minutes
and not
>>t. never played Fallout 2 for longer than 15 minutes
Oh well, silly me for assuming you meant what you said and not what you didn't.

>>5963140
>got history degree
>best job I could find was either sucking dick at a museum or digging ditches

>>5963145
>I bet you don't even know you can send a robot to replace the part.
Yes, that's what we've been talking about you fucking retard, and you don't need Science for that
>Or talk with this guy.
Okay, read this post for the first time (because you don't fucking read anything):
>>5962785
>Gecko's only Science check is miniscule and is the Enclave soldier easter egg.
How could you actually play the fucking game? You can't fucking read! Fallout is a fuckton of reading! But you evidently can't fucking read!
>Or that the game can be designed around checking various skills and stats, so various builds can approach the same quest in a slighly (or diametrically) different way.
And that addresses Anon's opinion that Science doesn't do anything for 90% of the game and you have to invent scenarios where it isn't used in order to desperately bolster its notoriety in the game engine how?
According to a fucking retard (yourself) Science is a fantastic useful skill even though 70% of the applications you listed are accessible by any character with Science books, 20% aren't even Science checks at all, and 10% are trivial.

So please
for fuck sake
play the fucking game yourself
and learn to read

>>5963145
>I bet you don't even know you can send a robot to replace the part
If you're talking about repairing the Gecko power plant, I did it that way on my very first playthrough with a sniper stealth character with exactly 0 points put into science.

>>5963151
There is also archives. I mean back in the day, archives were THE best thing you could do with a history degree. It probably still is, since for the most part, it's a governmental job.
Then there is of course teaching, but depending on the country, it's either THE worst job that is (and with lowest pay) or THE best job, with requirements so high up you can't even think about getting it, unless you finished top of your year and on some of the best universities around. Either way, not much to do with history in the end, aside teaching trivia to kids, so archive still wins.

Unless you are trying to insult me right now, but that just sends up back to that dickhead with no reading comprehension. This time being unable to read which degree belongs to who.

>>5963158
No, I'm the one with the history degree.

Just about to go back to school to get masters in accounting and a cpa.

>>5952209
I played 7 Kingdoms 2: The Frhytan Wars for a good month. Its hero system is interesting and would have probably been more meaningful against a human player. The Frhytan factions are fucking bizarre.

Otherwise much as you said, an interesting game but ultimately you can just make a fuckload of dudes and mob the map. The fertility god (Egypt? India?) was super busted, if you arranged your cities correctly you could easily get your population into the thousands by clicking really fast.

>>5954601
Torian Kel is my favorite companion NPCs in that game. His voice acting is great, he dosen't give a fuck, his backstory is neat and he actually has quite a bit of character depth by the end of game.

>>5948938
!

>>5948253
>my character building choices affect how I play the game
>somehow this is a bad thing
Fuck off OP

>>5963507
You're essentially forced to pile points into AP unless you know the game inside and out. that goes against the open spirited nature of the game

>>5963515
>You're essentially forced to pile points into AP
You're not
Drugs fix every mess up you might have made in chargen and unless you did something really stupid you have alternate ways to do things than AG

>>5954601
>spells scaling off Magick aptitude which effectively makes mage character development stop after level 20 out of a 50 level cap is totally ok
Um... it's the exact reverse? Everyone gets stuck on specific power level designed for their "class", but mages don't. It's literally another episode of "linear martial, cubic caster" - your aptitude is scalling ABOVE 100. Doesn't matter for technologist, doesn't affect neutrals, but it boosts spell power significantly beyond what was intended as their "max" power. If you play your cards right, you can end up with aptitude of 147 (or 145 with slightly different build) legally and with exploits, only sky is the limit.
And it's part of the reason why Arcanum's combat is bat-shit crazy. Sure, it plays like ass, especially in turn-based mode, but saying mages aren't flat-out broken and OP is just wrong.

>>5963515
>t. nigger who always go for diplo-sniper
I bet you didn't even try other builds.
Also, you can't have less than 6 AP, since it's 5+AP/2. That's enough to use 90% of all weapons in the game, both in regular and aimed/burst mode or whatever speciality it has. So what you are going to miss is ability to make two aimed shots per turn, rather than being incapable of fighting at all.

>>5963540
>I bet you didn't even try other builds.
there exists no combat build where AG isn't the priority stat however

>>5963549
Maybe, just maybe because AG is pre-requested for various perks and/or special attacks, but AP doesn't play any role in it? Ever occured to you that people make brawlers with 6 AG not for the sake of having 9 AP, but because otherwise they would lock themselves out from special attacks that make their build worth it?

>>5963641
Haymaker is AG 7 and ST 5, and that's the only pure Unarmed attack worth using and there are no other special attacks tied to stats for any other build
>6 AG
>9 AP
That's 8 AP
>pre-requisite for perks
This only matters for LK due to drugs unless you're specifically playing without drugs

People prioritize AP because it lets you move around more (in a turn-based game that's pretty important, especially one where you want to abuse cover and take as few direct hits as possible) and accesses more attacks, it's not a secret.
You're talking about Brawlers but they only give a shit about the bare minimum Strength (in a hypothetical drugless game you will literally want higher PE than ST on a Brawler to get Better Criticals) and Slayer always crits regardless of Luck so they can leave it at 6 and put those points elsewhere.

>>5948946
OMG it's just like in the books.

Most CRPG is meant for you to read the manual play for an hour or two to get a feeling of how the game is structured and than reroll a character with how you feel the game world is built. CRPG are all different in their own way. And so just because you played one or two doesn't mean you know what is in store in a different one.

>>5957753
Good point. Yet Fallout 1/2 and PST have a ton of sensible evil options in quests, where as Arcanum has almost none.

>>5963472
>The Frhytan factions are fucking bizarre.
How so?

>>5963481
Same. He gives you the most awesome piece of lore in the game too.

>>5963535
My point was that after you get the spells your character wants there is nothing for a pure mage to do with his skill points.
I don't know if your damage spells can scale beyond 100, but summons don't. Thing is that the mage reaches overpowered status as soon as his magical aptitude goes up a significant amount and you get any spell that scales, which can be really early.
>Doesn't matter for technologist
It actually does because it gives you magic resistance, which makes Virgil useless as a healbot, forces you to use healing salves and diminishes potion usefulness. And since there are 0 enemy casters who will try to harm you with spells instead of summoning or self buffing this might be the only CRPG where magic resistance is a very bad thing to have.
>And it's part of the reason why Arcanum's combat is bat-shit crazy. Sure, it plays like ass, especially in turn-based mode, but saying mages aren't flat-out broken and OP is just wrong.
I don't disagree.

>>5964701
>It actually does because it gives you magic resistance, which makes Virgil useless as a healbot, forces you to use healing salves and diminishes potion usefulness. And since there are 0 enemy casters who will try to harm you with spells instead of summoning or self buffing this might be the only CRPG where magic resistance is a very bad thing to have.
I ain't an expert, but I recall a long time ago that there was some anon who did a lot of research into high tech builds and they relied on tech-healing and Jayna Stiles, and they claimed equal OPness in the mid-game, while also being vehemently against the usual accusation of "lol Harmspam is the best". Granted, I wouldn't know myself as I never grokked Arcanum that much.

>>5964701
>I don't know if your damage spells can scale beyond 100
They do. Which is why Harm is such god-damn broken spell. Technically, it should stop at 40 dm (which is still plenty)... but it reaches values of 63-68, depending on few variables and your aptitude value.
As for magic resistance, it really comes you bite in the ass if you chase after the All-Father blessing. Because the ressurection that happens is magical in nature. Hope you packed that tech-based reviving gizmo on any of your NPCs. And hope you saved in some sensible moment, not 4 hours prior the sacrifice.

>>5964712
Jayna is broken, more so than Virgil, because she's actually competent at things she does, rather than being around. Sure, she's absolutely dreadfully bad when you get her, but that's overcome by 10 levels.
Harmspam is a can of worms, really, because while it deals huge amount of damage in reliable fashion, there are issues when facing a lot of enemies and then there is magic resist they can have (fun). Unless you carry around a lot of potions and know what you are doing with magic, Harmspam is the easiest way to faint and get kicked to death by some hungry villager.

OK

>In pokemon rby, psychic pokemon are completely broken
>Their only counter, bug and ghost, were completely useless do to shitty stats and lack of any decent stab moves
>YET the creators said they were inspired to make the game from hunting bugs as a kid

>>5964712
Tech is strong all game long if you do melee and guns do become good in the lategame. If you metagame and steal a hand cannon or looking glass rifle immediatly with a Fate point you gain from solving the bridge issue in SH you bypass the "guns do no damage" phase instantly. You also make gunsmithing pointless.
For crafting of unique guns like Droch's Warbringer you can buy tech manuals in bulk from the Tarant university and sip a potion of intelligence. The effectiveness of manuals scales off of INT, and the potion of INT raises it by like 15 for a minute or so, which is more than enough to craft what you want to craft. Its not like money is an issue past the early midgame, you have fucking nothing to spend it on regardless of your build.
Speaking of potions, do you know what is the best one? Potions of haste bump your Dex by a similar amount, which means that everyone can have acsess to that gigantic AP bonus from having it at 20 as log as they use it in turn based mode. In real time it lasts like 10 seconds but in turn based its around 10 minutes.

>>5965069
Oh fuck I forgot about the Allfathers blessing not working for high TA chars...despite the fact that it adds skill points into firearms.
You and the last line from >>5965213 also reminded me of the worst lie in this game, and now that I ponder on it I realize how truly badly put together Arcanum is. Now I am not sure if I can call it anything but an awful game and an even worse CRPG that should be buried and forgotten now, but more on that later.

>>5965076
Just buy and equip several magical staves, they use their own fatigue pool. Fatigue from casting becomes trivial then.
I think summoning is even better than Harmspammer because the most stupidly overpowered thing in the game is Melee, and at 100 MA you can summon 20 str 20 dex fully geared out orcs and ogres out of your ass. Im not sure you gain XP from summon kills.

>>5965501
Now for the awful truth.
Outside of magic resistance and certain spells that scale off of it, aptitude does not matter in many cases.
Your spells will not fail, your weapons will not blow up in your face. The game lied to you. Troika failed to correctly implement the one thing that set the God damn game apart.
Cannot remember what the full list is, but I know for certain that fire magic is exempt, as are flamethrowers, all technological bows and Bronwyck's gun. Oh, same goes for all buffs. Buffs, the final nail in the coffin.
From a character building standpoint there is no reason why anyone should not be constantly under the effects of two stacks of Strenght of Stone or Agility of Fire. At starting human CON you have enough fatigue regen to maintain them without loss, and that means that you have either +8 str or +8 dex from level 1. Which means that you'll be reaching the broken 20 dex bonus even earlier and can max out combat stats rapidly.
This is ofcourse utterly soulless. And it does just go to show how badly stiched together the systems really are when oversights of this scale made it past the devs.

>>5965501
>Im not sure you gain XP from summon kills
Of course you do.
Harmspam is what you do if you want to play turn-based. But since by mid-game turn-based is a slog, then Temporal and Summon are the king.
You want to know why Summon is the king? Because you don't even need to learn it as a mage. All you need is Stillwater Blade, which you can get as early as Shrouded Hills. Enjoy Vorpal Bunnies spam!

>>5965545
The Agility of Fire is pretty much what makes Only Child half-elf such fuck-broken build.
Spend 1 point on Fire Magic. Start the game. Cast the spell twice. Spend points on Melee. Whoopie-do, you can now waltz through the rest of the game.
To make it more broken, invest into Throwing instead and get Azram's Star, because if there is anything more broken than Melee, then it's Throwing:
- All the benefits of Melee
- Range (and pretty substantial one)
- High Speed, master of all weapons
- Never degrade when hitting "hard" or "hot" targets
- Doesn't need any ammo
- Explosives take throwing to further ridiculous broken point
- Grenades aren't affected by your tech/magic aptitude, because why should they, right?

And there are people who to this fucking day stick to the laughable Looking Glass Rifle and think a super-slow 40-40 dm weapon (or 10-30 if you patch up with the "fuck gunslingers" final patch Troika released) that forces them to endure turn-based combat mode is the way to go.

>>5965795
>Temporal
Whoever decided that "yup, let's multiply number of attacks against enemies by a factor of 4" is a good idea for a spell was a fucking moron.

>>5951995
It makes sense doesn't it?
It's the sort of jank that enhances the story.
Gear matters more than skill, people with old earth technology will destroy you no matter if you're the best spearchucker of all arroyo.
Same with the maniacal companion AI, burst firing and turning you into ground beef. Really drives the point home. You're in a dog eats dog survival situation.

>>5965795
I now remember what a fucking nightmare that one dungeon full of equipment breaking golems was

>>5965826
Considering Super Sledge hammers and Power Fists are regular fare for the remaining militaries of the postapocalyptic world it makes no sense to argue that there is no room for melee weapons in the Fallout universe.

>>5965826
I can piercing strike and punch all the way through a guys chest with a crit but we need to bring it back down to earth so guns are strong?

No. It's a bug in the park. Tactics and the tabletop rpg both play it straight as does bonus ranged damage.

>>5965835
And that was the place where I realised how great Throwing is. Before that, I just used it to lob grenades, with barely 2 points into it.
Then I went on "Throw Man" build and boy, I got hell of a surprise.

>>5965846
why azrams star over the aerial decapitator btw?

>>5965795
There is also the flying guilotine easter egg weapon for throwers.
If you plat without fanpatches grenades also cost 0 AP to lug. And since all you need for a molotov is fuel and rags from a trash can you gonna do a lot of dumpster diving. Though thats what all techies do, dig through the trash and spend half an hour of real time trying to force reload shopkeepers so they can get that one crafting item they need.
Also you are immune to your own grenades. So it is not only safe to throw a shrapnel grenade or a molotov cocktail in the face of that wolf that is about to bite your nuts off, it is optimal. He and his buddies get knocked back almost a full turn of movement away and take damage whilst you have more time to shoot em.
Don't quote me on this but Ive heared that throwing damage for non nades scales off of Dex as well. Not that there is a reason not to get it to 20 asap anyhow...

Alright, Arcanum buffs - self-reliant Dwarf Warrior/Technologist with that one funky early-game blacksmithing sword and some grenades and herbs. Mostly melee, but with tech support. Y/n?

>>5948268
Typed like someone that never once played the games.

>>5965884
from my experience in these /vr/ cRPG threads the guy accusing everyone else of not having played the games (including this very thread) usually also doesn't understand them the most

>>5965881
No because the game is too broken, most of it is filler and its just not worth your time unless substantial amount of it has passed since your last run.
>self-reliant
By this I assume you mean solo. You can do fine, XP gets gained a lot faster since companions arent there to steal it so you reach the cap fast as hell.
>funky sword
Yes, balanced swords have high speed and are thus op.
>nades
No point in molotovs other than mopping up shitmasses but stun grenades are always good.
>herbs
Yes, healing salves are made in batches of 5 and are easy to buy the ingredients for.
Also get 2 in electric for charged rings to help with shitty dorf speed. And its not like techies have anything else to wear on their ring slots.

>>5965929
Dwarf won't hamper me too much, then? Can I reach the OP Dex capstone or not?

>>5965863
>>5965872
>There is also the flying guilotine easter egg weapon for throwers.
Shit range. As in - really shit range. At this point you might as well go Melee.
Plus if you go for magic user (my post assumes you do), then Azram gains a hefty +20 (and more) damage thanks to 100 magick aptitude. It's faster and flies almost three times as far, while magic users can't deal less than 30 dm with it, thus negating the damage output edge the decapitator gets. In other words - it's superior in every possible way. If you don't go with magic user build, then decapicator still sucks in my eyes due to the super-short range

As for nads and Dex - nope, that's a hoax.

>>5965881
>going solo
>in Arcanum
>as technologist
Tell us please... who is going to be your transport mule?

>>5965934
Get a background to negate the dex penalty and you will. Otherwise it'll have to be items to boost dex and there arent many of those other than Magnuses gauntlets.

>>5965934
The cap is +12. If you have less than 8 of starting stat, there is no way of raising it to 20. Meaning the penalties to Dex are the worst imaginable.

>>5952209
Is this World Quester 2?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gy9hJauXns

>>5966856
There is also penalty to Str, which makes all races with it and female charaters in general bad for melee combat, since you can't get the bonus.

>>5968762
The bonuses from stats are generally speaking unbalanced as fuck. Not that Arcanum is a balanced game, but the bonuses take it to another level.
20 Dex? +5 Speed
20 Str? +20 melee damage
20 Per? You can see invisible... only there is NOT A SINGLE INVISIBLE TARGET IN THE ENTIRE GAME!
20 Con? Poison immunity... as if that was needed for anything.

>>5968767
20 dex doesn't give you additional 5 speed, it SETS your speed to 25. This adds like 40% additional AP for you to use in turn based mode.
The 20 str melee damage bonus is also a wholly different formula to the standard one. So the difference between 19 dex - 20 dex and 19 str - 20 dex is huge.
The 20 perception bonus showcases the biggest issue with the game, it sure as hell feels like two different teams designed the systems and the combat encounters, then they mashed them together and shipped. And neither group did a particularly good job at all.
To further add to perception bomus worthlessness, it does not even detect traps. Not like there are many of them outside of the BMC mines.

>>5968860
I know that Str bonus isn't really +20, but rather +11 - it's the final result that's +20, more than doubling your bonus damage when you go from 19 to 20 Str.
What's even the Speed at 19 Dex? Isn't it 19 anyway? So the "sets to 25" is no different from +5 of BONUS (since without it it would be just 20)

>>5968860
As for Pen in general, I find it just flat-out idiotic as a stat, with skills connected to it. Melee, along with Throwing, Bows and Backstab all go under Dex. So is Dodge.
Perception? Guns use it. And aside that, only Prowling (why?!) and Spot/Disarm traps (which should be single skill, but they apparently needed badly a 16th skill to give each group 4 skills).
So if you plan to go for any other form of combat than firearms, you gain in the same time more Action Points, more Speed and generally speaking a free access to other, useful combat capabilities. Guns? Oh, sure, let's spend gorillion of points on a stat that does nothing, so you can hit something else the wide side of the barn.
Even if you go milk all the items that add to Perception, you will still end up sinking points into it for really competent marksman, unless you plan to wait all the way until late game to get All-Fathers blessing (and underperform badly in combat until that moment).

Sometimes I feel that the team as a whole didn't really like having ranged attacks in their game (bows suck by default, guns suck due to the Per requirements and not scaling after reaching Quintarra or so) nor really knew how to balance things out, so they didn't bother in the end.

>>5968901
>Spot/Disarm traps
... or just run through any given place with traps and ignore their existence completely. Yeah, having it as a single skill could help around (less points spend, less hassle), but it still would be very marginal. There are only two places that are heavy on traps: Black Mountain Clan and the training room for master. I'm not sure if outside those two there would be 20 traps in total in the entire game.
Perception can be cheesed up with Therapeutics, as 3rd schematics gives you a potion for +2. The downside is that once the item increasing your stat is removed (or the potion wears out, in this case), your skill is also reduced to your current level of related stat. Thankfully, you retain the effect of training for expert and master, but that's about it. Either way, it's fucked.

Speaking of trainings - fuck that shit. It's soooo fucking annoying you need to get a special background so your followers can get a training, unless they are scripted with one (and most of them aren't). Gee, a gunslinger without apprentice training and an entire slew of melee guys that also have no training, but a fucking dog gets master and a lizard gets an expert, because fuck you, player, for bothering with followers.

okay so if I play fallout 1 and 2 for the first time, what stats do I pick if I want the game to be easy and I just wanna stick with the pistol?

>>5968913
Gifted + Small Frame traits (+8 points for SPECIAL makes the game trivial)

AG 10, IN 7+, PE 7
Don't bother with ST and EN higher than 6 (and ST can be dumped as far as 4). If you plan to use chems to rise your CH during follower's recruitment, then you can dump it all the way to 2. If you don't, then 4 in FO2
Everything you are left with should be put in LK.

Obviously tag Small Guns, also tag Speech and Lockpick.

Important perks include: Awarness, Better Criticals, Living Anatomy, Action Boy/Girl (twice), Bonus Rate of Fire, Sniper. This leaves you one perk to pick, so either Toughtness or Night Vision (Toughtness is less situational).
If you don't use chems and have 4 CH in FO2, then take Magnetic Personality instead of those two, so you can have Sulic, Vic and Cassidy in your party without "cheating" on chems.

Congrats, you now have a diplo-sniper. Boring (extremely boring), but very effective build.

>>5968926
Also, in FO2 it's important to know that your followers can level up. This happens when you score a level-up yourself and they display a special, flavour text over their heads, along with a note in the log.
Flat-out save-scum this, as it's not automatic and is semi-random. The sooner they level-up, the better, not to mention Vic is the Magikarp of Fallout - utter shit on recruitment, THE best follower on max level.

>>5968926
>>5968930
And two more, regarding FO1.
When you leave the cave, move outside of the on-map square with Vault 13, then walk back. Get inside the Vault. Get all the handy supplies you can get, along with solving few minor sidequests for a nice level-up.
Remember than the only application followers have in FO1 is being your pack mules and they are utter shit in combat by the time you hit level 3 or so (no, really, they are that bad). Don't bother with them, don't over-arm them and don't care beyond Ian. He still sucks, but he sucks the least of the trio and can be accessed right in Shady Sands.

>>5948253
>New Vegas
I too love pathetically unfinished games with invisible walls blocking nothing in particular

>>5968926
>Important perks include: Awarness
>Toughness or Night Vision
Those are all level 3 perks, why would he take more than one level 3 perk? Pick up Life Giver or Bonus Move instead.

>>5968953
Why should he pick Life Giver, a ridiculously bad lvl 12 perk that gives +4 HP/lvl, totalling at +48 extra HP? And that assumes he post-pones picking such important perks like Action Boy or Living Anatomy to get max profit out of Life Giver. Compared with that, just throwing in an extra 10% resistance to all damage, period, greatly outweights having slightly more HP. And it doesn't have to be picked at specific level for max profit, too.
Bonus Move is important when you play as melee. He's not going to do that, so it's useless for him.

>>5968984
>extra 10% resistance to all damage
>compared to +48 extra HP
except resistance to damage can be gotten from Psycho, armor, winning boxing fights in New Reno and HPs can't be gotten from anything, and crits, the most dangerous form of receiving damage, bypass damage resistance, so Toughness doesn't scale as well as Life Giver at all, which at least *will* give you some form of protection. And +48 HP only comes from if you finish the game at level 24, which for completionists usually isn't the case.
>Bonus Move is important when you play as melee
If you rely on blowing your entire AP reservoir to make aimed shots (with 12 AP and BRoF you can snipe heads three times a round) then the bonus 2 AP to reposition behind cover is excellent
to say nothing of situations where you want to kite melee enemies
This is a turn-based game, AP and movement are always going to be king, so Bonus Move is good for everyone
Toughness (or Night Vision, which has no place in any build because the best thing it grants can be easily solved with skill points or high PE) is worse than either of these defensive possibilities except by the virtue of being available at level 3, where it has nothing to contest with.
And if he also plays Fallout 1, then his Fallout 1 protagonist might want More Criticals at level 6 rather than the level 3 perks simply because you're unlikely to get Sniper in Fallout 1 unless you really get out of your way to level up a lot.

>>5968953
Life Giver is bottom tier, barely above trash tier of perks. And like the other anon said, to even consider making it useful, you would have to pick Action Boy later. I'm sorry, I'm not going to trade away 1 Action Point now for 12 HP later. And without said 12 HP, the remaining 36 looks even more lackluster.
And that also requires answering a very important question: do you really need extra HP by the time you are level 12? You already should have (with the build suggested) 91-93 HP by that point. That's more than enough to survive through anything and you are going to gain another 60 without any perks. Are you trying to say there is any moment in FO1 or 2 that requires more than 150 HP? HP only really matters very early on - when you are fighting against Khans or taking out Metzger.
Bonus Move for ranged combat has single use: when you are using Big Guns and need to position yourself properly, so you only hit your enemies/targets of choice rather than anything between you and your target. Since the build in question is for Small Guns, it has zero application.
Compared with those, a single rank Toughness is what allows you to hit the maximum damage resistance possible, meaning HP will be even more of a non-issue. Night Vision is useless as far as I'm concerned, since night penalty is overcome by sheer combat skill without wasting a perk slot.
And yeah, without chems, Magnetic Personality triumphs all of those.

>>5969002
... or you can reload your game after you die from a random critical.
Mind blowing, isn't it?
The only merit Life Giver ever can get is in iron man. And anon asked for universal, easy-to-apply build. So he got one.
Also, nice knowing hitting lvl 24 is now some sort of magic task of impossibility and not just doing quests. Or how doing quests now is "completionism" and not "playing the game".

>>5968953
>>5969002
Imagine pushing for ironman build when some random newfag asked for easy time with the game. I bet you would also advice him to rank up as much EN as possible.

I've got just one question: what better choice you've got other than Awarness on level 3. Come on, share your "wisdom" with us. There must be some superior perk to it on that level.

>>5969007
>Also, nice knowing hitting lvl 24 is now some sort of magic task of impossibility and not just doing quests.
What are you talking about here? No one said anything of the sort. Completionists are going to have *more* levels than 24. Hardly anyone finishes their build at 24 and then goes like "aight imma go win the game now" since there's still things to do.
>... or you can reload your game after you die from a random critical.
You can apply this logic to every single perk in the game.
>The only merit Life Giver ever can get is in iron man.
No, but I guess it would make more sense to pick it in builds with EN 4 or even 2. That said, I still think there are better perks at level 6 than Toughness.
>>5969004
>HP only really matters very early on - when you are fighting against Khans or taking out Metzger.
Had plenty of moments where I would die to an Enclave patrol without high HP. Metzger and Khans can be taken out without HP due to Psycho and abusing corners and windows. Starting a fight where you're taking multiple bursts, some of which can crit, favors a HP cushion more.
>Since the build in question is for Small Guns, it has zero application.
Again, disagreed because, especially a newbie, will often find himself starting combat way too deep in the enemy territory or he will simply get thrust into a combat encounter where him and his entire party is out of position (e.g. pretty much every single time a Random Encounter happens). +2 movement points for free to correct earlier mistakes or just to have comfort is better especially when you still don't have all your perks online.

>>5969013
>Awarness on level 3
For a first timer? None. Having the ability to look at your enemy's remaining HP and weapon is a great boon for people who don't know everything. But otherwise, I consider level 3 perks to be mostly filler, so I wouldn't take more than one. Quick Pockets and Toughness are comparable to Awareness, sure.

>>5969004
>Take More Criticals, it's so good!
>You will never get Sniper anyway!
Why didn't you suggest picking Skilled as a trait? I mean all those bonuses to so many various skills...

>>5969017
Yes, because first timer won't realise that hitting that guy with 4 HP left is better than the other bloke with 17 HP (both would be "almost dead" without Awarness data) with a 5-12 damage of 10 mm pistol. Nuff stuff.
Also, decide yourself: is Toughness useless or not? First you rant how bad it is (and suggest Life Giver, out of all perks, as replacement), then you say, ok, Toughness is fine to be taken, especially as a replacement for vital Awarness
>Quick pockets
If you are playing the game with non-melee character in any other configuration than weapon in slot 1 and stimpack in slot 2, you are a moron. But hey, you value Quick Pockets and Life Giver as good perks, so I guess it checks out.

>>5969020
Fuck, was supposed to be for >>5969002

>>5969020
Let me highlight that I spoke specifically of Fallout 1, not 2.
Even with Fallout 1 putting Sniper at level 18 instead of 24, I've had multiple completionist characters that did everything that was there to do in the game (including MBase / Cathedral storms) and they still came up short of getting Sniper, finishing at around level 16 instead. Having a slightly higher crit chance in a critfisher build for, virtually, the entirety of the game, seems to trump a perk that you are unlikely to receive until the game is practically over.

It's a different story in Fallout 2, of course, where you can expect to finish the game at around level 30, so Sniper is pretty much guaranteed.
>>5969024
>is Toughness useless or not?
I said Toughness isn't worth taking if it isn't your level 3 perk.
>Yes, because first timer won't realise that hitting that guy with 4 HP left is better than the other bloke with 17 HP
I said Awareness is a great perk for a first timer.
>If you are playing the game with non-melee character in any other configuration than weapon in slot 1 and stimpack in slot 2
Why would I put Stimpaks in slot 2? So that I can spend my entire AP count on healing myself to full? Why wouldn't I just enter inventory, jam as many stimpacks and drugs into my bloodstream as I need (you can take infinite stimpacks as long as you're on the inventory screen, if you put them on slot 2 then you're taking them individually, so you can only take a maximum of 5 stimpacks and you're wasting your entire turn to do so) and call it a day?
The only time this would be useful is if I were to put Super Stimpaks in the 2nd slot instead.
And again, Quick Pockets is good because it directly compares to other level 3 perks.
For all of your sanctimonious ranting about how much of a noob I am you didn't seem to think this through either. Or even read my post, which you replied to as if I was disagreeing with you.

>>5969029
I never said you are a noob.
I called you a moron. Know the difference. And your last post further proves my point

By the way, just for transparency:
>>5968926 is a good build. A great build. You can change stuff up in it, but it's very workable. Newbie Anon, that post is a great guideline for a newbie build. It's recommendable.

All I'm saying is that at level 6 I'd rather take
>Bonus Move
As I already explained I think it's a great perk for any situation because you may very often find yourself in need of moving away. This makes it easier to kite enemies, to abuse windows and corners, or to simply run away in case something goes wrong. Not everyone will have perfect positioning and I think that assuming you will always start every combat 50 paces away from your enemy is unlikely, especially if you're fighting indoors (caves in Fallout 2 often hold great equipment).
>More Criticals
Yes, Sniper invalidates this (especially in Fallout 2), but +5% crit chance until level 24 is still an offensive boost. This might mean the difference between knocking someone out with a headshot or groinshot or missing the crit.
>Bonus Ranged Damage
Fallout 2 in particular tosses a shitload of 10mm JHP ammo at you and Bonus Ranged Damage adds +2 damage to every single shot in a burst fire. Since at level 6 you will be likely using Hunting Rifle or Shotgun together with a 10mm SMG, or when using an Assault Rifle or Combat Shotgun later, having a bonus burst option in case you really need to pulverize something directly in front of you is a nice plus, especially since diplosniper builds tend to take a while to really come online (at least until Better Criticals).
>Magnetic Personality
Mentats have a cap on effective ability (and they only grant +1 Charisma per intake).

I would personally even take Silent Running instead.

So yes I prefer all of these things to +10% damage resistance, which is easily gotten from other sources. But it's not a bad perk. I just think it's best to take at level 3, as an alternative to either Awareness or QP.

>>5969032
>And your last post further proves my point
You know what? You're boring as fuck. Enjoy spending 12 AP to heal yourself to full (because every time you take a Stimpak from the quickslot, YOU SPEND 2 AP) and not having a secondary weapon slot available for emergencies or a different tactic; normal people will just access the inventory, heal themselves to full, take drugs, reload their weapon (yes, you can do it through the inventory screen!) and still have 5-6 or even 8 (with QP) remaining AP to do anything else in their round. You're the moron here, and saying that you should put Stimpaks in slot 2 revealed that. I have no reason to listen to you.

>>5969035
BRD is good when you pick Big Guns for the most part. For Small Guns, going for aimed shots is far more effective and efficient than bursting, so Living Anatomy wins. BRD works with Small Guns if, and only if, you stick to P90c in burst mode, with the insane 12 round burst of cheap-ass and light-weight ammo. Otherwise the perk is clearly inferior to Living Anatomy.

>>5969039
>I will pick a perk that allows me to highly-situationally save 2 AP over a perk that tells me how much HP left have my targets
>My only defense of my idiocy is projecting things that aren't there
Moron supreme.

Just to make it clear, as you apparently don't understand - being a moron can do that - why I keep insulting you:
You keep contradicting your own claims. You keep suggesting super-situational shit as universal. You started off with suggestion for Iron-Man build.
In short, I'm mocking you for your idiocy.

And you know why not picking Quick Pockets and keeping that stimpack wins over your retarded suggestion?
Because when you aren't in tight spot, you can just use a single stim for quick save (2 AP, no perk wasted). And when you get in tight shit, you will enter your inventory (4 AP, no perk wasted) and heal the shit out of yourself. So you saved a perk while retained the exact same ability it provides for tight situation, while still being able to fire your weapon. Something you will be unable to do twice if you heal (regardless of Quick Pockets) unless you got Bonus Rate of Fire and 2 ranks of Action Boy - meaning you are lvl 18 and have so much HP, dropping dangerously low with HP is close to impossible.

tl;dr you're a moron

>>5969045
>Living Anatomy
>level 12
>Bonus Ranged Damage
>level 6
Due to how the game works you can have both. +2 damage per single shot isn't much, but I already explained the reason for picking it.
>going for aimed shots is far more effective and efficient than bursting
You get BRD at level 6, which is pre-Better Criticals, in which case aimed shots still whiff and crits are weaker (often only confering damage instead of truly debilitating effects) and aren't guaranteed in the first place, and BRD also expands your AoE options (as burst damage is AoE) which you will be grateful for when your low level character gets mobbed by highwaymen with knives or something. And even without these considerations, BRD is still +2 damage to even your single shots.

>>5969051
Okay, you said your irrelevant shit that doesn't in any way address anything I have said and puts words in my mouth while defending your bad and inefficient playstyle choices, now scoot away, retard.

>>5969052
>Y-you didn't explain anything
>R-retard
Moron
Further proved by advocating +2 damage on single-shot weapons as something even worth looking for.
Stay mad. Stay retarded. Stay the fuck away from suggesting things to newfags.

>>5969062
Whatever you say, Stimpak in slot 2 healer. You should take Comprehension when you hit level 3 because you could really use some in your daily life.

>>5969064
>I didn't read the explaination I was given
>I am not retarded!
>Work on your comprehension!

>>5969068
>I didn't read the explaination I was given
I did and it was wrong and put words in my mouth.
I love how you zeroed in on the fact that I said something about +2 damage to single-shot hits (even though you are ignorant of the fact that the +2 damage is also further modified by crit, unlike Living Anatomy, which is just a flat +5 damage) when I specifically said BRD is a nice, optional addition to a build to expand its options rather than a flagship perk.
I love how you're constantly living in this fantasy world where I said Awareness isn't a good choice of a perk, or that anything I said to dismiss your retarded Stimpak in slot 2 strat is exclusive to Quick Pockets users.
So yes, pick up Comprehension. Also Educated. Right now I see a lot of Smooth Talker, having no intelligence but just enough Smooth Talker levels to pretend that you know what you're talking about.
Also some retarded shit about me recommending "Ironman" builds or contradicting myself when I have done neither.

>>5968860
Something completely different to ask - what's with called shots?
Why they are so poorly explained? What they really do? Are they are broken as everyone who uses them claim?

>>5968889
>What's even the Speed at 19 Dex? Isn't it 19 anyway? So the "sets to 25" is no different from +5 of BONUS (since without it it would be just 20)
Truth be told I have no idea.

>>5968901
To add further insult, the best perception granting gear in the game is a mage only helmet.
>bows suck by default
Bows suck in turn based but are hilarioisly broken in real time. You make so many shots at higher training levels that you turn into a machinegun, this is why the best bow in the game is one gained from a fetch quest for the elves due to massive speed.
Bows in real time fire so fast that if you attack an good aligned creature from a sufficent distance your good aligned companions will trigger their dumb "Why are you attacking this pure soul" script so many times that their reaction to you will sink into the negative, triggering an attack.

>>5968905
>I'm not sure if outside those two there would be 20 traps in total in the entire game.
The only location I can think of that even has any at all is the dungeon beneath P Schyler and Sons, where you can randomly set off quench life traps.

>>5969178
>Why they are so poorly explained?
Because its poorly implemented.
>What they really do?
Same as Fallout if memory serves, but there really is no reason to use them. Fallout 1 has the deathclaw mother where if you have half a brain and cripple both of her legs you render her nearly harmless since she moves two tiles per turn so you can shoot her a million times till she croaks. Or super mutants armed with heavy weapons who you have a reason to try to cripple in the arms before you get heavy weapons of your own. No such thing in Arcanum.
>Are they are broken as everyone who uses them claim?
Its Arcanum. Everything is broken.

>>5969471
This is something I never understood with bows. There are guns that have similar or higher speed. In fact, there are guns "fast" enough to outpace bows even when you take into account firing double-arrows...
... but guns just fire "fast", while bows machinegun any target. What the fuck?! It's some sort of bug or something? I just can't wrap my head around it. By stats alone, any "fast" gun should out-shoot bows.

>but there really is no reason to use them
Different anon, but they are very fucking useful. The list of potential ailments and modifiers caused by aimed shots is just absurd, so even if you don't score a crit, you still can easily get +50% damage (since it had fucking 60% to trigger once you have Expert training in any given skill). And let's not forget there is a non-critical TRIPLE damage modifier.
Which can then crit.
And it works with grenades.
Which is main reason for me to stick fervently to thrown explosives - they really do clear the whole room in a single toss, saving all the tedious fighting.

>>5969513
My guess with bows is that the faster animation and the increase in speed from apprentice training adds up.
>And it works with grenades.
I didnt know this. Thought it was just for guns...Wait
So is there something where aimed shots dont work? Can they work with spells too?

>>5969536
Unfortunately (fortunately?), called shots only work with physical attacks.
This also means the infamous exploit with Shocking Harm-Staff perpetual attack won't work with called shots... assuming that was an exploit and not intended use of the staff.

>All this stuff about Arcanum
Was the game really this broken? I'm genuinely confused, I didn't even notice 90% of those issues.

>>5948275
>you're supposed to reroll your starting character about 10 times before beginning to play the game proper
Do that with Fallout 2 and your reroll will be hours in as your low int big guns fast shot prevents you from dealing any damage at all to the final dungeon enemies even though everything was fine right up until then.

Stealing in Baldur's Gate is unbelievably fucking broken and wonky. There's no such thing as stealth, if there are NPCs in the building and you steal something from it you get caught and reported to the guards.

>>5970043
>Was the game really this broken?
yes
if you play combat in real time you can literally attack as fast as you can click
turning Harm (best spell in the game, the level 1 Necromancy spell) into an ungodly nuke. As well as bows and arrows.
you can also summon overpowered as shit Ogres early on with magic.

meanwhile technology is useless even in end game. The amount of effort required to acquire schematics and materials and make some mediocre shit when you can just be an invincible wizard isn't worth it.

>>5970691
>low int big guns fast shot
None of your core perks in that build have anything to do with intelligence so it's more likely that you fucked up because big guns is perfectly viable in both games

>>5970718
cursory read of this thread seems to tell me Arcanum is broken to the point people already found more broken things than Harmspam in both magic and tech trees

>>5970908
>big guns is perfectly viable in both games
Not if it's rapid fire. They can't be aimed and therefore can't hit the poseidon marines in the eyes, and they take zero damage from any attack that isn't in the eyes. You can't finish the Fallout 2 campaign with combat if you can't hit the eyes. It's not possible. Except maybe the Bozar? I don't know since in almost 20 years of playing I've never found it and I will not look up shit in these games. A game needs to be able to stand on its own. Fallout 1 does. If it wasn't for armor-ignoring criticals any meme build would be viable in that game.

>>5970969
>Not if it's rapid fire
Every big gun in the game is rapid fire (or rather, no big gun can have aimed shots because Rocket Launcher is also a big gun but you wouldn't really call it rapid fire).
>You can't finish the Fallout 2 campaign with combat if you can't hit the eyes.
I've done it, multiple people on this board have done it, and even if you somehow never find the Bozar, this build works very well with Avenger Minigun as well due to sheer amount of bullets in a burst volley. Light Support Weapon is also a solid mid-game option because, for the most part, it's Bozar-lite.
Enclave can be rather easily stormed with a standard-issue Big Gun build if you properly build your character around said build. In fact, you can even storm Enclave with a Flamer / Rocket Launcher build (this one also takes Pyromaniac somewhere down the line). Here's a sample:
any level 3 perk
Bonus Ranged Damage
Bonus Ranged Damage
Action Boy
Bonus Rate of Fire
Action Boy
Better Criticals
Sniper
note that we ignore Living Anatomy because it doesn't do anything for us; Bonus Ranged Damage adds +2 damage per each bullet, Living Anatomy adds +5 damage to the end of the damage calculation.
With this build every single bullet in a burst gains +4 damage and you have a high chance of critting with the bonus +20% on the critical roll table, which even with just shots to the torso has devastating results and multiplies damage by a lot per bullet. This build is highly effective and due to how burst volleys work it also provides plenty of AoE.
>they take zero damage from any attack that isn't in the eyes
That's not how crits work either. There are Fast Shot Sniper Luck 10 builds that clean out the entirety of the Enclave with instant death crits to the torso with a Gauss Rifle or YK42B Pulse Rifle.
For what it's worth, you can even make a Small Guns burst fire build with H&K P90C that works off the same basic perk guideline as put in that spoiler above.

>>5970986
also for Big Gun builds or H&K P90C builds you can actually strongly consider Quick Pockets as a level 3 perk because if you dual-wield two of the same weapon, you can empty both of your guns at the same time, open the inventory for 2 AP and reload both of them at the same cost instead of reloading them one at a time for 4 AP (and you can also heal up while reloading).

>>5970043
It becomes terribly apparent after repeated playthroughs. The game really is not well thought out at all.

>>5970718
Id say tech is good in the endgame but guns only become decent, whilst melee can be turned broken instantly if you know what you are doing and magic is...well, what it is.
>effort
More like tedium. Techie gameplay in Arcanum consists of walking out of sight radius of a shop and then waiting for a day to force them to restock. Repeat for fucking ages because there are way too many rare crafting elements and atrocious schematics that produce worthless gear.

>>5970916
Let's throw another corpse on the pyre.
99% of the damage you will recive in this game is physical. What if I told you it is possible to get 95% physical damage resistance on level 2 as a Half Ogre?
>pick the thick hide background or whatever the hell its called. Half ogres have a natural 10% damage resistance and this gives you an additional 10% at the cost of beauty, a worthless stat
>optionaly abuse Ristezze for infinite money so you can buy the things you need later
>as soon as you are out of Shrouded Hills go to Blackroot
>use the fate point you gained from the bridge to pickpocket the Chapeu that gives you +20% damage resistance from the old lady who gives you the quest to check on her son, then travel to Tarrant. You could also just kill her as well.
>we are now at 40% damage reduction naked and with a hat
>go to a blacksmith and force him to restock until you get some gloves/boots and plate armor. Do note that this will take a long time.
>you can now run around the BMC whilst taking like 3 damage per hit. You are more likely to be fatigued out by attacks than killed for the rest of the game.
One may ask why go for a half ogre with tough hide instead of a human with escaped lunatic -- the latter gives 5 % more DR than ogre+hide. Its because the armor for the larger races that only half ogres can wear has more damage reduction.

>>5970992
>dual wield 90s
I see you too are a man of culture

>>5970986
Well my build was entirely built around combat because I wanted to play a character who is inept at everything excep killing. I brought a Vindicator and 1000+ rounds to Poseidon and never killed a single marine because the fucking gun would simply not penetrate their armor and a few dozen turns later I died from that nice random armor-ignoring critical hit that did 150% of my max health in damage.
I played on the GoG version.

>>5971213
Did you have big guns skill? Were you hitting?

>>5948268
There are no classes in Fallout, and you can't "reroll" a character to get better stat points.

>>5971218
My big guns was a little over 200 iirc. This was an average fight of mine after killing Richardson:
>You hit enclave soldier for no damage
>You hit enclave soldier for no damage
>Enclave soldier hit you for 15 damage
>You hit enclave soldier for no damage
>You hit enclave soldier for no damage
>Enclave soldier critically hit you past your defenses for 292 damage. You die...
Very Easy difficulty

>>5971261
Weird. Maybe you hit this bug and they were all stacked up in a door and getting blocked by one guy.

>Though not a bug peculiar to this weapon, all the burst weapons in Fallout 2 suffer from a bug whereby dead creatures obstruct burst fire as if they were standing up. Thus if a dead entity is located between the attacker and the intended target of their burst fire, that dead entity will block the majority of the rounds fired.

Because you should be doing like (25-15)*.45*25*.95 which is fine even without a crit

I recall Vindy doesn't work properly.

>>5971158
There is also Armour Class, which means they won't even hit you in the first place.
Best way to gain huge amount of AC (and also working well with your ogre build)? Screaming Shield. A super-popular magical shield that can be bough just about anywhere, gives fucking 30 AC (-30% chance of being hit, that's basically 1.5 point into any combat skill) AND 10% damage resist.
Wearing the full armour you've mentioned, the AC should be around 60. That's -60% chance of even being hit, so most enemies are going to miss or outright crit-fail, while if they connect with the hit, the damage will be pretty much non-existing.

>>5970043
I didn't saw most of it until I stopped re-playing the same (or very similar) build over and over. And once the crack was made, everything started falling apart.
From what's known about production of the game, they never really talked with each other how to build the entire combat system, so everyone involved did their part, they mashed it together and then it was too late to make something good instead, so they've just polished the more rought edges and went with it.

>>5971297
Okay it has to be a bug then because I've never dealt anywhere near that kind of damage with a Vindicator against someone in APA. It feels like shooting someone in a flak jacket with an air gun. Almost every time your hits just bounce off with no damage but there's a very slight change the person dies from a random hit in the eyesocket.

>Fallout
>Poor game design
It's an adaption of a tabletop RPG, m8.

>>5961442
>Too bad the game actively encourages you to metagame and punishes you for roleplaying. Ever tried playing a Scientist character? Not fun. 90% of your time is spent running from rats and 10% is spent actually being a scientist. The classic Fallouts had very few opportunities to actually roleplay.
So criticize that instead. The mechanics are not at fault, it's the quest and world design that is. Which is why I believe New Vegas is the best Fallout RPG.

>>5971371
Now that you mention it, which enemies do deal non physical damage?
All I can remember is that Seething Masses do fire. Fire elementals also do fire, obviously. But what else is there?
Makes one wonder what is the point for the electro armor other than comparable stats to power armour, but being easier to craft and having no str bonus. That thing gives you like 70% electric DR, and the only thing that does electric damage that isn't you are some dwarven traps and thats it.

>>5971643
Actually not
SPECIAL is a fucked up, unlicensed version of GURPS that was turned into a system that only works in video game confines due to the arcane maths underneath
When converted into an "official' Fallout SPECIAL system it's a complete fucking mess
Or go to /tg/ and imply that tabletop games can't be poorly designed, have fun harvesting 340 posts comparing 5e to FATAL

>>5971643
I really, really wish Fallout was using GURPS.
But it doesn't and if you are familiar with GURPS 3e, you can still see how desperate they were to distance the shitty SPECIAL from their broken licensing deal. It didn't work out and unlike what the other anon says, it doesn't even work on cRPG format. In fact, most of the broken shit that exists in SPECIAL is the aftermath of trying to pull "like GURPS, but without 5 dollars of license fee" bullshit and failing spectacularly.

>>5971660
>But what else is there?
Some of the high-end zombies, the "blue" ones. They are by far the most popular enemy when it comes to dealing fire damage. Annoying as fuck in early to mid game, as they are pretty fucking durable.

>>5971698
This makes me curious. If you have the time could you please go into more detail, anon?

>>5971701
Well that explains why they can damage armour on attack, thats just the passive effect of fire damage.

>>5971720
>This makes me curious. If you have the time could you please go into more detail, anon?
Not him, but regular GURPS doesn't have Charisma, Fallout has Charisma tied as a throw away (to round out the SPECIAL anagram) stat that doesn't even impact social stats much because there's also a Speech stat, which is why you have excellent diplomats with max IN and low CH.
Strength has horrible scaling and is never worth investing into.

>>5971720
GURPS has four stats: Strength, HP, Intellect and Dexterity.
Fallout tucked in Luck (muh criticals), Charisma (despite GURPS tying all social skills to IQ and the gameplay itself doing the exact same thing - giving you dialogue options based on IN) and Perception (which is a secondary stat in GURPS).
GURPS is based around bell-curves for probabilities, with simple 3d6 check and everything designed in a way that average joe in average situation can handle his shit in a reliable fashion.
SPECIAL uses percentages... that go to 200 and 300, depending on game. The roll is pretty much marginalised to the value of the skill itself and is a simple d20 check plus modifiers (so you can always fuck up loyally with a 5% chance)
GURPS has like 20 different skills for social interaction and even if you group them together for "big" skills, you still have 4.
Fallout just gives you Speech, and uses it to solve 80% of quests.

>>5971764
>Strength has horrible scaling and is never worth investing into.
Depends on the game, depends on the setting. Getting 13 ST for a melee character is pretty much a must-have due to damage modifier it brings.

>>5971801
Also, remember this:
They've designed the game with GURPS in mind, then changed decision in very late development, switched things around... but game logic remained in place. That's why Charisma is ultimately useless for anything beyond party size.

>>5971764
>>5971801
>>5971802
The more I know the less I like Fallout styled crpgs.

>>5971819
Important note:
All this shit happens, because Fargo didn't want to pay loyalities fee for using GURPS. The whole "SJGames throw a fit about amount of in-game violence" is a bullshit cover story.
The fee was 2 grands.

>>5948253
I beat the game with a two AG Brusier character just to see if it could be done (I believe I had either 4 or 5 AP to work with), and so long as you know what you're getting in to, it's not that horrible. More AP lets you kill stuff faster, but once you reach a point where you can get psycho, you can pretty much kill anyone and everything at a slower pace anyway. I had super sledged deathclaws down and shot the master to death with rockets, never even made it to the level to get Slayer.

Nothing really compares to eye shots with small guns or the turbo plasma with fast shot though.

>>5971835
Big guns fast shot was really fun, even in fo1. Minigun rips apart mutants. When you go to take our mariposa theres rocket launchers everywhere and I am shooting rockers and popping two 4+ groups of muties, then walking over and picking up all their rocket ammo

>>5971801
>Depends on the game, depends on the setting
I meant in Fallout games specifically, Strength is really bad. When a stat designed to be a core melee character stat is a dump stat for melee characters you know something is wrong.

>>5948253
Every Fallout game I've played has serious god stat problems. In the originals, it's agility, in 3 and NV, it's intelligence. Being able to freely distribute skillpoints without limit was a mistake, it's somehow worse than Elder Scrolls' leveling system which is also fucking garbage.

>>5948938
Let me draw you a diagram. Now, if you are such a stellar gamer, mind posting some pictures of your biggest achievements, high scores, replays, or trophies?

>>5948253
Great example i started to play this twice and always missed hits and got fucked early on I will try again soon.

>>5972054
That's the result of SPECIAL, not GURPS. They've fucked up the transfer of already wonky melee modifier into a completely superflous stat. As far as I'm concerned, Strength in SPECIAL exists as a limit to how much you can hoard before you meet Ian/Sulik.

>>5972169
Use >>5968926 build and you are golden. As for missing hits - it only matters when you are in the cave/Temple of Trials. Then you will be of higher level.
In FO2, do not rush with raising your Small Arms after just scoring your first level. Do it only after you plunder the shelfs in Klamath. You're welcomed.

>>5972405
Strength also limits your ability to wield ranged weapons.
The main issue is the power armor.

>>5972421
>Strength also limits your ability to wield ranged weapons.
The malnus you get for insufficient ST, along with minimal requirements for various weapons, ultimately means you will rarely see more than -20% penalty (which is meaningless) and that assumes you will see it at all.
If you have ST of 6, you will never face any real problems, with 4 you will still have no penalty early on (where it matters) and later you will have a laughable -20% due to not meeting the most common 5 ST requirement - something your skill can easily overcome. Something that becomes even more moot once you get yourself a PA or APA. Or increase your ST, which, if you ask me, is still better than getting a perk that increase it for the purpose of weapons: you gain also 25 (15 with Small Frame) pounds of carry weight, which is handy.

tl;dr ST is for carrying stuff

>>5972421
>>5972428
Also, the most ridiculous part is that aside weapons with "minigun" in their name, there is not a single weapon requiring more than 6 ST... but you can still pick that perk when you have 6 ST. Nothing like adding you +3 when you need +1 at best. Which further cements increasing your ST as more valuable than pickign this perk, even if you would use "Gain Strength" perk for it

>>5971819
Soon you will be a bitter bastard like me. You wont remember fallout 1 and 2 for anything except horrible inventory ui, picking shit up off the ground one stack at a time because you gibbed a guy. Losing quest items and unique items in piles of bodies and blood stains, pixel hunting items, picking up little garbage and carrying it around for hours because it's one of the most important quest items in the game, frankly shallow combat and terrible ai, and game breaking quests


Tldr; 3 and new Vegas were perfect sequels that hit all the series defining characteristics and even improved on some of them.

>>5972915
>picking shit up off the ground one stack at a time because you gibbed a guy
Thanks for reminding you, I'm still trying to forget

>>5972954
*me

Tfw OP made a bait thread and people still managed to post actual complains about the game up the wazoo

>>5972915
you forgot the disappearing car, followers disappearing if you had sex, bugged good endings that you can't reach, and then after all that time wasting your time yelling at Codex rejects who believe that the game has more soul the less playable it is

>>5973134
>wasting your time yelling at Codex rejects
why would anyone spend time on that?

Also, never had the disappearing car bug. I feel somewhat bad about it, because it's one of the most known bugs in FO2.

>>5969032
You are a fucking retard, your "hurr put Stimpack in Slot 2, morons!" post is irredeemable. I'd expect that level of idiocy from a new player but not from a supposed expert on the game.

>>5973142
You are aware you are replaying with anger and passion to a two-days old post... right?

>>5973139
I thought it was patched out pretty well? That's probably why you never had it.

It was also specific to the caves I think?

>>5973165
San Fran is also a popular spot for that bug to trigger. And it could be intentionally triggered, too, allowing much easier looting

>>5973134
As for good endings, I unironically suggest the Restoration Project PATCH. Not the entire mod, just the patch from it. It doesn't change shit about game itself, but it does fix all the known bugs in the game, especially the ones related with endings triggering wrong outcomes.

>>5972915
>3
To be fair 3 has no merit as an ""crpg"" nor as a shooter. Its only good inclusion is the radio.

>>5973336
You seem to have a particularly strong immunity to irony, anon

>>5973339
Nothing gets past him, he has max Agility.

>>5973339
No im just drunk im sorry

>>5972915
>3 and new Vegas were perfect sequels that hit all the series defining characteristics
Well yeah, Fallout 3 did hit all of the series defining characteristics. Meaning that it literally punched them.

>>5973689
BETRAY ME

No. It did them all better than 1 or 2
They are shitty games. The only redeeming feature of fallout has always been the setting.

>>5964701
You're going to want to use those leveling points for active spell slots (intelligence), evasion, willpower, dexterity, and possibly constitution.

>>5973708
I like 3 and all but I'd consider the boring and intrusive main quest to be a bigger problem than any of the tedium of 1 and 2's mechanics.

>>5973708
You're going to have to list some features there because I can just off the top of my head refute the "all" in your assertion by just mentioning the companion mechanics that exist in those games and... don't in Fallout 3. Also I know it's an extreme example to mention Eden's speech check but there really is nothing even close to that shitty in Fallout 1 and 2. There's also the fact that explosives can no longer be used on doors, player cannot target the eyes and there's no traps skill and consequently any blind retard can effortlessly disarm any mine.
Now that I've listed how Fallout 3 has objectively downgraded some aspects, you have to back up your statement and list how Fallout 3 has objectively upgraded all aspects including the ones that were downgraded.

>>5974313
Combat and ai are much better in fo3.

Inventory is still garbage but at least you can use a keyboard to take a whole stack . No more losing garbage in gibs, except for the rare weapon disarm. Just find any gib and you can loot like normal.
The game was still full of bugs on release but at least it's hard to break the main quest after the final release.
No more ruining your game because you accidentally shot one npc that ran into combat. Just put your gun away and they'll forget all about it.

The whole point of eden's speech is to be shitty so you can tell him how stupid he is with a science or speech check. So is the master's.

>no traps skill
Good. Fallout has skill bloat. Most of this thread is discussing how shitty special is.

The only time in fallout 2 I can think of traps being necessary is if you want to get into the safe in reno without alerting the guards. Everything else is better suited by stimpacks.

>can't target the eyes
Fine

>no explosives on doors
Fair enough, I missed that in the new fallouts. They are still better games on the whole and still have a lot of the bullshit that defined the early games, like useless skills, attributes and still bad inventory management.

The one thing that bothered me a lot about Fallout is that there's no clear distinction between Charisma and Speech.

>>5973336
"Sorry, son/little lady. I fixed up your head as best I knew how. I guess I missed a spot."

>>5974782
But there is
>Charisma
A dump stat used to govern number of followers
>Speech
A skill used to solve 5/6 of all quests.

>>5974685
Fallout 3 and onwards also put aesthetics before usability, downgrading the use of functional visuals instead of upgrading them. The human brain processes images and colors faster than text, but Bethesda has never had a clue about what they've been doing with interfaces ever. So because their fancy pip-boy had to have a low-resolution monochrome CRT screen, then the colors and the images had to go. Also to support consoles over PC all fonts had to be made massive, which split a single screen's worth of information to multiple screens and still those screens had scrolling in them.
The inability to target the eyes is one of the most significant downgrades to combat. Combine that with the inability to VATS target bodyparts in melee, and you have removed about half of the regular strategy that was invaluable to melee characters.
The absence of traps skill wasn't really about the skill itself, I agree that Fallout 1 and 2 have skill bloat and your character can't properly diversify their abilities because of the over-separation and insufficient point allocation. It was more about the fact that instead of fixing the badly implemented skill to disarm traps, they removed it.
I also agree that objects obscuring others in the game world is a serious flaw of Fallout 1 and 2. Fortunately that was fixed. But not by Fallout 3. By Fallout: Tactics. In fact, all of the less than ideal aspects of combat in Fallout 2 were either fixed or even expanded upon in that game. Only to be forgotten when Bethesda made their first person shooter. I bet one of the reasons why aiming at the eyes was not implemented is that enemies don't actually make combat rolls at all, they just literally shoot at the player and no skill checks are made whatsoever to determine success of attack. Can't debuff their dicerolls with blindness status effects when no dicerolls ever take place.

forgot pic

>>5975080
Skill bloat is only kind of a thing. There'sa bunch of useless skills, but also too many skill points in fallout 1/2. Half the skills are traps for newbs. Speech and your primary attack skill solves 99% of your problems. Throwing, gambling, maybe lockpick, or sneak, or doctor are your other skills. Everything else gets trained by books or is almost entirely useless in the game. Why even let it be a choice at that point. With even average intelligence you are dominating most skills by level 15
I found myself walking around with 99+ unspent skill points waiting for a challenge that would make me spend them.

I was really excited for fo4 revamping the skill system to be something like fantasy flight games d100 systems. -your attribute determines your chance, and you use a skill point tag to increase your chance by 10 or 20%. Like if you had 6 int and 0 in science you'd have 30% chance for science. If you were trained, youd have 60%, you could fit another +10 in science by spending one skill point, or 20 by spending 2 more. Then if you raised your int to 8 youd finally have 100% science. Putting perks behind the attributes was cool too.

>They ruin it by removing skill checks except for a single side quest.

Its like they know what I want and then shit on it and todd hands it to me with a shit eating grin on his face.

>>5948417
Fallout 2 assumes you have a bunch of companions with you, Fallout 1 knows its companion AI is poor and assumes theyreball dead by mid-game
The devs were genuinely shocked to learn anybody was patient enough to keep them alive to the endgame

>>5951995
Aren't unarmed builds OP as fuck? Odd that melee weapons would be weaker when a power fist is essentially the same thing

>>5953787
>>5953609
Its the Todd Howard argument, he specifically designs Bethesda games not to be replayed because you can do everything with one character

>>5953892
I sneaked in the fallout games all the time

>>5975386
Bare hands is okay in fo2 because you get such a high crit bonus. Power fists are okay in fo2 because theres a second power fist tier. I think they get weak in fo1 compared to other weapons, but its not really that hard of a game that the other weapons are justified.

Melee kind of sucks. You got spears and sledges and super sledges and rippers. Theres no ripper2 that's like a chainsword sized thing.

The super sledge is a trap anyway. So you need to run through some gunfire to get to melee with your enemies? Great
Now hit them. The super sledge special ability is they go flying 1 square for every 10 points of damage. So next round you got to walk that much farther to hit them again.

Alright kiddos comparing any games evil choices to Black Isle / Obsidian games is unfair because they're the only devs that assume you will pick evil as your first playthrough since its "more fun" according to Chris Avelone

>>5975418
Ive used melee as a secondary offensive skill for crowd control. I'll run into a crowd, hit each mutant/enclave once with the sledge and then switch to guns

>>5971801
You forgot the part where GURPS is an over complicated mess that nobody plays willingly, GURPS is specifically a generic catch all system for game masters too lazy to adapt rules themselves.
Black Isle could've made Fallout a Gamma World game from the start, stuff like the mutated badgers even shows that was their original vibe. It's like how Starcraft is obviously generic 40K. They went for GURPS because it was cheaper, and then cheaped out on even that

Oh man, I could say so much about Morrowind
but it's not retro
but DAMN

>>5975475
>It's like how Starcraft is obviously generic 40K
You mean like how there's literally no overlap in their "human" factions' philosophies and how the Space Marines are generic mooks and not an elite theocratic fighting force and they're space cowboys and not zealots, how the Protoss can't be meaningfully 1:1'd onto any other 40k faction, and how Zerg actually shaped Tyranids as much as the Tyranids shaped Zerg?
>You forgot the part where GURPS is an over complicated mess that nobody plays willingly
So the system is too complicated to play...
>GURPS is specifically a generic catch all system for game masters too lazy to adapt rules themselves.
...but it's also a system for people who are too lazy?
What kind of sense does that make?

>>5975475
>GURPS bad, cuz generic
>Muh Gamma World
>>>/tg/
Don't you have a full harness thread to shitpost in? Sounds like your kind of deal

>>5975502
What a shitload of fuck.
Eldar are nearly perfect protoss. They're both mysterious psyker bullshitbspace elves that sometimes ally with humans against the zerg/nid

Of course the zerg look like nids, how disingenuous.

Theres even the old ones that engineered the space elves and probably engineered the space bugs and maybe the humans. It is all 1:1 with reasonable care taken to distance them from the existing property. It's not shamelessly copied but it is definitely copied.

>>5975617
You posted picture of something that could be considered any other Starship Troopers-inspired alien and then are implying that the Protoss are somehow elves despite not looking the part and having a completely different caste and make-up from the Eldar.

I think you're just sad because while Dawn of War is good, it's not as good as Starcraft.

>>5975639
And they just happened to have pitched this and warcraft to GW, and been huge GW nerdsm

>>5975617
>>5975639
>>5975642
>>>/tg/

>>5975426
>Chris Avelone
You mean the guy who wasn't even present when Fallout was made, but to this very day projects himself as the "father" of the game and the most important dude in development?
There is nothing more disgusting than bandwagoning cunts like Avelone trying to grab the spotlight. And his opinions about Fallout 1 & 2 have about the same level of gravity as me or you speculating about them. He was fucking nobody in making 2 and wasn't even present during making of 1. Didn't stop him from projecting like crazy.

>>5975475
>Roll 3d6 and compare outcome with your stat/skill
>Over complicated
Sup, Guy-Who-Never-Even-Saw-GURPS-Rulebook?

>>5975386
>>5975418
The best non-unique melee weapon in FO2 is the sharpened spear. Especially due to the range it has. You can then upgrade to wakizashi by mid-game, so you deal the same damage, but ignore armour.
Little Jesus is of course the best, but it's an unique one, so go figure.
Ripper is inferior to upgraded cattle prod and I by default dislike powered melee weapons - if I wanted to lug around ammo, I would just pick a gun.

>>5975435
Slugger > Sledge. The fact it deals less damage is a good thing. And you get it much, much earlier, too.

>>5976361
Isn't the sharpened spear kind of unique?

>>5976354
>You mean the guy who wasn't even present when Fallout was made
Why do you keep saying he wasn't present in Interplay at all? He's even an NPC in the first game specifically as the company's inside joke.

>>5976354
>to this very day projects himself as the "father" of the game and the most important dude in development?
Where or when does he do that, actually? Even in his original interviews he doesn't try to hog too much of a spotlight and mostly focuses on things he actually designed. When he rightfully didn't have enough time to work on Van Buren because of Black Hound and Icewind Dale, he pointed that out. He didn't get to work much on FNV until DLCs because of Alpha Protocol, and he admitted as much. That, and he compiled the Fallout Bible as a private venture, but even then he says it doesn't necessarily constitute canon anymore. Where does this conceited image come from?

>>5976365
Not at all. You can get one from the start of the game, before leaving Arroyo, but you can easily get more in stores later on and loot from encounters.
Meanwhile things like Little Jesus or Slugger are one of their kind, period.

>>5976509
I didn't said he wasn't in Interplay. All I said he's projecting the image of being some sort of top dog in the company, while his entire job was minimal and restricted to FO2.

>>5976517
From his time promoting NV. He milked everything he could for "true creator" creed when promoting the game. And the more time have passed, the more Avelone is projecting his importance. I mean I get it as a business tactics, worked great for him, but doesn't change the fact it makes him a lying piece of shit abusing naivety of "true fans" that were 3 (or weren't at all) when FO1 premiered.

>>5976552
I don't see how the company going all "From the writer, Chris Avellone" and all sorts of video games (Into The Breach coasted on this,for instance) using that gimmick to sell copies somehow makes Chris a bad guy here. By the time FNV was a thing, the guy took large credit in PS:T and KotOR2. In no interview do I recall him presenting himself above others. Even when he had a massive falling out with Obsidian, he still speaks of fellow lead designers, developers and writers with respect, especially Sawyer.

Complain about the fanbase worshipping Avellone all you want, especially since most RPG players don't even seem to understand who made which game (a lot of people still think Baldur's Gate was developed by Black Isle), but I don't think he ever exuded particularly self-important behavior.

So let me get this thread straight:
The most broken build for Arcanum is a Thrown weapon (rather than Melee) magic user, preferably with a background that enhances aptitude toward Magick... or am I missing something?

>>5976927
Maybe not most broken, but definitely one of the top ones

>>5976927
So it's the same as D&D

>>5976354
He wrote the fallout bible and literally has an NPC named after him in 2, shut the fuck up, take your bullshitposting to /v/

>>5975502
Too lazy to design or houserule/homebrew their own game, brainlet. Stop posting if you don't understand how RPGs work

>>5976517
Ignore that anon, he's mad about the SJWs but tries to disguise it with other disingenuous complaints, I'm sure hes shitposting in an outer worlds thread right now

>>5976552
Nice backpedal from pretending he didn't do anything on fallout 2 earlier in the thread

>>5977408
>Too lazy to design or houserule/homebrew their own game, brainlet
There have always been systems that were much simpler to set up a game in any generic setting you could possibly think of, and even more so in 2019, so I have no idea why would playing GURPS be a domain for the lazy even though it's also complicated.

I don't know why people get so rabidly defensive about Fallout 1 and 2. They're good games, but they definitely had flaws. A major one for me is the lack of reaction of the game world to the player's actions. Zoomers are often told that Fallout 1 and 2 are "proper" RPGs, that focus on good story, good characters, etc, but the later games do a _much_ better job of having the world react to you. E.g. in Fallout 1 characters will talk about Gizmo as if he is alive even after (if) you've killed him, and in Fallout 2, e.g. Whiskey Bob, who is literally in the same house as Smiley, will still tell you he is missing after you've rescued him. Both games are full of examples of this. Many quests also offer very little closure, with quest NPCs no longer offering dialogue, instead just eliciting a floating "Thanks!" over their heads after completion of their quest.

>>5977637
I definitely used to be in the rabid defender camp, then i thought maybe only fo1 is good, and now I'm pretty meh on most aspects of the game


I'm the fag saying the setting is the best part and 3 and nv are actually better not worse.

Saging because it seems like the thread ran its course and I don'want to keep bumping it with the same shit

>>5977637
You want to know what rabid fandom is?
Try pic related then
Those roads and flags everyone defense with such passion? They exist, because the programmers realised having workers just move goods around in such quantity as the game requires wouldn't work on Amiga (for which the first game was written), so they've created a "limit" on how much shit can be moved at once.
So when the hardware finally allowed to move goods freely with just swarm of workers carrying shit and your biggest limitation being the actual efficiency of your settlement, rather than road connections, fandom throw a collective fit. Never mind 3 and 4 are an improvement in Every. Single. Fucking. Way. For its most rabid fans removal of the road system meant the game was ruined forever, gay and unplayable.
Did I mention there are only 18 maps in total in Settlers 2 and they all require autistically following the exact same moves, in exact same time, or you get fucked by AI?
And how resources are going to just disappear upon capturing enemy terrain? And how there are no speed settings, unless you outright cheat, so a basic map is going to take you 12-15 hours and if you fuck up, you have to repeat past 4-5 hours each and every time, because hey, we are super-slow game.
It's not comfy. It's just boring. 3 and 4 fixed the game, yet got shat upon, so the studio released 5, which was just AoE clone and the series was forever destroyed. And they only recovered by re-releasing Settlers 2 10th anniversary game, which was same shit, but in 3D.
Thanks, vocal minority fandom!

>>5977678
No need to sage, because the thread already reached its bump limit. Welcome to neo-/vr/, where threads older than 2 weeks get auto-saged. Brilliant, isn't it?

>>5978190
Dunno senpai - networks are comfy. You can call me a retard because I never played anything other than S1 and S2 precisely because of the roads/flags.
For me it's a different game.
It's like transport tycoon removed trains and left only buses. I mean sure it's maybe more effective but it's not the same feeling.
Things that should have been fixed wrt S2 instead are:
buildings can have any orientation not only the default one
a road segment should have lanes and hold more than one worker on it
resources from enemies shouldn't vanish
resources shouldn't deplete just be harder to mine over time

>>5978190
>And how there are no speed settings
2 had a speedup function.
The typical approach was to set up a bunch of build orders and have the game running while you are AFK.

>>5948253
Gee OP maybe this could be circumvented by using the logical reasoning that if I wanna be good at punching guys I should have some decent agility.

>>5978378
I don't mind roads as such. I mind how they start to play out after certain threshold, where you are slowed down by them, rather than speed up, even if you approach them with maximum efficiency in mind (which the fact you couldn't change elevation, like in S3 and 4, was making pretty hard if the map was just slapped together withut any planning on creators side)
In the end, S3 fixed for me pretty much all issues 2 had, added few on its own and the balance was never really achieved, since 4 wasn't interested in fixing shit and just changed few mechanics.

>>5978380
That's how I was playing most of it - set up build order, then go read a book. Or watch a movie. Then make a pause 10 minutes in, check on game, give new orders.
Wouldn't call that the best form of game design, you know

>>5978380
Also, the V button (speed-up) only works after you activate cheats.

>>5978808
Maybe they generally enabled it in the Gold version. I don't think I ever enabled cheats.

>>5978443
would be easier if the game didn't also pretend that Strength and Endurance are good stats

>>5979278
But it doesn't, thou. Even if you didn't read the manual (baka) and just play for the first time, you can see how stats affect your secondaries and skills. It doesn't take a Math degree to realise EN and especially ST are worthless, even for a melee.