/vr/ - Retro Games

ZERG RUSH KEKEKEKEKE

So gentlemen...how do you propose not making burrow the poor man's cloack ability, without making it exactly like cloacking?

Mutalisks and hyrdalisks, brah.

Thems the real meat of the Zerg.

>>578331
if your units don't outnumber enemy units of the same tech level at least 3 to 1 you're playing Zerg wrong.

>Devourer
Heh...so that's what the purple goo really does...I always thought it was suppose to be there for uncloaking units, but I already had esnare and overlords for that job.
The campaign didn't even bother to showcase what it does.

>I'm a pro zerg player, always active and know how to position my units.
>Play against someone in the bronze league.
>-Hey go easy on me, I'm just a beginner toss player
>-Np, ...he's so fucking dead.
>He blocked his entrance
>Wtf he's already messing around with my drones even though I had a spine crawler up.
>Combo of stalkers, zealots, 2armor and sentries.
>Aim for nydus canal...the fucker takes it out, till I finally manage to get in there...only to..
>Get my ass fucked by black holes, collosus and the ocassional psi storms. While my base is also getting killed.
>My lings & roaches! They do nothing! my damn roaches can't even tank for my hydras.
>Ends up it was actually a gold league toss player, the players got switched.
Back to Tyranids with me.

Well insects are still stuck in the past...

So stuck in the past that what they haven't heard of, can't hurt them; radiation.

>>578359

No, the purple goo also reduces attack speed. That particular debuff also stacks, so ten Devourers means that those enemy Cattlebruisers will be shooting pretty slow.

Slightly unrelated to the thread, but does anyone know of an RTS game where the alien/insect-like race is overpowered?

>>578402
>Tyranids.
I like the cut of your jib sir.

http://starcraftatrox.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=0
Anyone can beat Blizzard at rts games.
You especially know when you're devoid of creativity when even your korean fanboys can make a clone game with better ideas in it.

>>578473
So shall we talk about Alpha SC1, other alien races, games and exchange ideas?

>>578440
neither retro nor rts but the Hivers in SotS are pretty hard to stop once they get rolling

>you can't use your overlords to drop in the base cause otherwise you lose supplies

That's like saying you can't drop in a Z base because patrolled scourge. It's false.

>the splash damage still kills your units even under swarm

By the time you have DS, you should have ultras/lurkers out. The splash damage they take is a nothin in comparison to the direct damage.

>Barely any mobile anti-air, let alone any anti-air.

Besides the fastest anti-air in the game that kills anything instantly, sure.

>Next to no abilities or alternative units to use. You get only 2 basic tier ground soldier units.

Besides Burrow, DS, Plague? Besides, you don't NEED alternatives. Lurkers and mutas are good units on their own, with their own subtle control options that other units don't get to use or abuse as much.

>A pain in the ass to control/micro them all.

Because you're bad, yeah.

>Probe is best worker, Scv is average, Drone is last.

They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Probes are good at harassment. The redeeming factor of drones is that they have a ranged attack.

>You have to keep checking more often for larvas than the other races.

>IT'S DIFFERENT! IT'S BAD!
Also, terran and protoss has to check back to their production more often than Z does, unless they want to queue and lose the game.

>Ultralisks still get their asses handed to them by siege tanks and air units.

With DS, no, they don't get fucked by tanks or air units. Learn to play.

>Your only splash unit has to burrow in order to attack.

And can tear up 30+ marines in seconds, control space well, and they transition off of a useful t1 unit. Your game comprehension is lacking.

>The Guardian(siege tank equivalent) is all the way at the end of the game, while your opponents already killed you with all sorts of air and transports.

The guardian is shit, it's not the seige tank equivalent. That's the lurker (space control).

And devs are shit. Build scourge. They kill anything in the game cost efficiently.

>>578343
Burrow is more of a hold position, which sadly it even fails at being that.
It would be a good ability if air units could burrow, that way free cloak and less damage from anti-air.
Though a more practical one would be if it created units on the spot or if it spawned them at the sunkens.
Or if any 3-5units could morph into a building so you're no so dependant on drones, would also speed up the flow and expansions.
Though I also liked the cliche of smaller units morphing into a bigger/boss version of them.

>>578540

And this is completely ignoring the capacity to teleport your entire army across the map with no cost or cooldown, the capacity to take more bases than the other two races due to mobility and cost efficient defense, and the fact that you've got complete map control in the early game since no race can actually move out against Z until they've got some form of splash outside of sunken busts with firebats (still splash).

In closing, eat shit. You're bad at the game, and that's why you can't win.

>>578540
Who invited this apologetic?

>>578561

I hate people who don't understand very basic concepts. Stop whining. It's not the race. It's you.

>>578476
Yeah I remember that old version.
When Zerg didn't have the purple creep and most units like defilers, queens, overlords, high templars could attack.
Overlords had a way bigger loading capacity.
Hydralisks had 120hp and melee attack, like in the cinematics.
Scourges only spawned from dead overlords, but I think that was even before the alpha, when the game looked more like warcraft.
Terrans had a grenade ability.
Mutalisks attacked with a green flame, while queens had the mutalisk's attack.
Drones could infest CommandCenters.
Queens also had swarm...not sure if the defiler had more than plague.
Ultralisks also had an ability...i think it got implemented in SC2.

>>578572
Make the design better then more people will play your game. That's basic concept.

>>578616

The design is fine, and starcraft is the most popular RTS of all time, if you disinclude DotA.

So yeah, it's you.

>>578607
Ooh, back when vultures could throw spider-mines like they were scarabs.
I'd play queens all day long for chained damage+dark swarm.

>>578623
Even in Starcraft 2 where the zurg is buffed, they still lost every match no matter how hard the players tried. So you're pretty much in denial. Alright I'll stop posting so I don't fuel your ego anymore.

>>578646

You didn't pay attention to them post-infestor buff, did you?

And SC2 is a different ballgame than SC1. I agree that they're poorly designed in SC2, but in SC1 they are perfectly fine. You're just bad. Out of the top 10 players in BW at the ending of the SK pro scene, 5 were zerg.

But I guess the race is still the weakest!

>>578646
That is to say...the other races' actual buffs actually counted, they were simply too advanced for zerg to keep up with. There's always a shtick with the zerg, like the roach, it has tons of HP, heals and moves while burrowed but it somehow still manages to fail.

>>578616

>Make the design better then more people will
play your game.

It's fucking Starcraft, arguably the most popular rts ever.

>>578656

You have no idea what you're talking about. Win rates are completely polar opposite to your standpoint, outside of early SC2.

>>578331
Never pit an Alien against heavy artillery.
I personally think the zerg should have had their supply limit raised by 100, so they can still count in the high-end games. Their building defenses were pretty good though, too bad the sunken got nerfed.

1spam stop
2wait for the unsuspecting units to close in
3???
4carnage!

>>578331
>The Guardian(siege tank equivalent)

Siege tanks don't fly...

>>578680

>LOOKING FOR BAAL?

>>578689
Stacking them up, each ball having 3-5 lurkers was sweet, till the vessel or scanner came in.

Blizzard will never realize that zerg units can have psi abilities too.
Though they can't even put the insectoid & infestation theme to full use.

>>578695

And when the vessel comes in, you use scourge. It was a fun little dance.

ZvT is by far my favourite match.

>>578723
>you use scourge

Too late, all your zerg are already dying from irradiate.

>>578473
Is Atrox good?

>>578729

You're still here?

>>578734

I-I just got here

>>578735

Sure buddy, sure.

Anyway, scourge handle scivessels fine. You're typically going to have this dance where the scivessels can't get into range to irradiate your lurkers, but your scourge can't get into range to kill the vessels because they'll be over marines, but the marines can't get into range of the scourge without getting fucked by the lurkers.

>>578731
Ugly graphics, unless you like more crude, alien looking artwork.
The campaign is a joke, it's worse than SC1, the difficulty isn't balanced per mission and the win conditions and triggers are boring as hell. Plus no secret missions. I beat the crap out of the game in every possible way even without cheats.
But it has some nice ideas in it, if only they were put in a better game.
I'd play it with some cheat codes to browse through all the units though.

There's some things which I only learned later when I replayed the game.
A thing i've noticed is that the intelllion/toss units regenerate their shields only if they stay near a pylon, the blue fire tower supply thinghy.
The ''fire cockroaches'' cracklings taken from StarShipTroopers can be armed with bombs from the ''ascomoid'' building. You just right click on it with your lings.
I still to this very day don't understand what exactly enables you to make more laser towers for the robot race, i think you need to have 50 free supply.

The game would have probably been better as a FPS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wqAmhYx9aY

>>579098
Is the game still being developed?

Just go fire your ideas at the crew

>>578343
Burrow is way better for recon than cloaking. It allows the zerg to keep tabs on every potential expansion for very little cost. Terran cloaking in comparison isn't very good.

>>579126
It was completed in 2002. No extra campaigns or expansions.

>>578473
except not W2/SC/W3 are hard as fuck. W3 on hard is impossible to anyone who hasn't mastered the game.

SC2 is easy as shit tho

>>579174
Agreed & without the expansion pack, there are no medics. Know what that means?
>QUEENS, my favourite unit of all time
Parasite (sorry, Protoss Observers), Ensnare (slow, get rid of hallucinations, get rid of cloaking units, get rid of tanks/goliaths/dragoons by broodlings...

A swarm of Carriers/BCs against 12 hydras after ensnare + plague... Good try, newb.

>>579174
Terran cloaking hogs mana, burrow doesn't.
>>578402
That's SC2, mor(m)on.
>>578548
>Burrow is more of a hold position, which sadly it even fails at being that.
Dare to differ - It's free, instant available to most ground units, what's not to like?
>Probe is best worker, Scv is average, Drone is last.
Drone has burrow & sending them to expansions to spy if/when enemies try to expand AND build an expansion when ready... Do I need to say more?!

On top of that, underdog units such as Vultures, Defilers & Science Vessels can change the game upside down with a click or two.

Plague and dark swarm were insanely good.

Unfortunately, all strategy went out the window when Koreans turned it into a 2hxc4u clickfest.

>>578707

After HotS you can probably expect Zerg to have Shamans

>>578561
Why the fuck would somebody need an invitation to post in a thread on an anonymous imageboard?

>>578682
>flying siege tanks

>>578707
>For the Overmind

>>586563
Starship Troopers movies & CGI series, enuff said.

>>578673
That would make their late game even more broken.
The beauty of the Zerg is that you only build stuff from the Hatchery and the rest is tech.
You should have a lot of Hatcheries for bases or just for unit building.
And they pump out larvae and you don't need to restrict yourself to just air or just to ground units.
Whereas with Protoss you probably have a ton of Gateways and have problem transitioning to Stargates (same with Terran Barracks/Factories to Starports or vice versa), with Zerg you can fuck with your opponent's mind by suddenly spawning something different altogether than your run of the mill Ultraling combo.
Add to the fact that you can just doom drop the shit out of people with Overlords and that the fully upgraded Zergling (claws/carapace, speed and attack speed) is the most cost-effective unit in the game, you can eat expansions in seconds with bullshit like 7 Zerglings + 1 Defiler (assuming they only run Cannons as defense, and if they don't, you're doing something right)

Basically Zerg is about 200/200 late game that you can constantly replenish and completely overwhelm the opponent and about playing reactionary,
Protoss is about maximizing spell use and timing attacks,
and Terran is about making the most out of your glass cannons of doom (which probably make it the hardest race to play if you're new)

>>586646
starcraft wisdom right there

>>586646
>Basically Zerg is about 200/200 late game that you can constantly replenish and completely overwhelm the opponent...

Let's do a simple math:

>1 larva spawns every 15 seconds
>3 larvae - 8 zerglings
>Multiply that with the amount of Hatcheries/Lairs/Hives

5 Hatcheries - 40 lings (along with waypoints)
10 Hatcheries - 80 lings
25 Hatcheries - TWO HUNDRED LITTLE DOGGIES READY TO CLAW & BITE

>>586809

how do you get 8 lings from 3 larvae? It's two per egg, not 2.3...

Besides, as fun as 300+ lings are, it's hardly a good idea that late into the game!

>>586825

And by 2.3 I mean 2.6, of course.

>>586825
FINE, six only.... :(
(being dwunk)

Still, it's fun to crush the opponent with über army of zerglings only, even if they had aerial support (sweet, sweet Scourges)

>>586854
And when it comes to that, 4 hatcheries pooping out 12 hydras should do the job if scourges do not.

>>586861
Or Mutalisks, depending of the situation.

THE ZERG is the most flexible race.

>>586825

>>586646 here, lings are still going to be the core of your army in pretty much every matchup. Against Zerg you aren't ever having a late game (only notable exception I can remember in the pro scene was here-> /watch?v=4ORO6TOvQ7s) but your composition is Lings into Scourge and Mutas; against Terran, Lings are still the best at reaching Siege Tanks and with proper flanking + Dark Swarm + lurker/ultra support they can overwhelm Marines (Hydras suck against large amounts of Marines&Medics, you want Lurkers instead; and Mutas only work until T reaches a critical mass on his big bio ball).

Admittedly versus Protoss, Ling-based play doesn't shine much until late game; Lings crush Dragoons but ZvP mid game is all about surviving the Zealot/Archon/High Templar push your enemy is composing (with the possible Corsair harass opening) while setting up map control with Lurkers and Mutalisks (if you can contain the Protoss in his base it's gg) and macroing into 200/200. Then you can mass Lings for massive damage, but you still need support in the form of Ultras, Lurkers, Defilers.

Or at least that's the latest incarnation of the ZvP meta I can recall; I remember when, before the Fast Expand builds were common, Protoss basically had to defend a Hydra rush with quick High Templars.

Aside from that Lings are always great for scouting, annoying opponents (just place a single burrowed ling on top of every CC/Nexus/Hatchery spot and annoy the enemy peon with it), setting up a sentry net, destroying buildings and overall dealing DPS.

Fuck, I loved this game. Too bad I never got any good at it.

>>578331
>Your only splash unit has to burrow in order to attack.

You say it like it's a bad thing.

>>588208
Fun fact, burrowed Lurkers under Dark Swarm are immune to splash and ranged attacks. Have fun trying to overwhelm a Lurker barricade in melee.

>>578331

>Your only splash unit has to burrow in order to attack.

Mutalisks and Devourers also do splash damage, it's not just Lurkers.

>>588259
Well Muta's aren't a splash in a more direct sense, it just hits up to two other guys along with the initial instead of an AoE around the impact zone that if someone is in it they will get damaged.

>>588236
Interesting... *evil laughter*
>>588272
Always deemed Mutas & Lings being blitzkrieg, mutas more-so (especially units with no anti-air).

>>588325
Not sure what you mean by that but Mutas are used for direct confrontation mainly in ZvZ, in ZvP and ZvT you move them in a big Jaedong-style ball and snipe stray units with them while dodging Psionic Storms, Archons or concentrated Marine fire.

Example: /watch?v=o1MVOqrm4qc (to achieve that kind of Muta ball, group 11 Mutalisks and 1 unit that is away from the map and remotely stationary and away from the Mutalisks (an un-upped Overlord or a burrowed unit) and spam right-click on the ground, then move them.

>>588362
Meant Mutas being airborne & able to do damage when retreating, hit-and-run...

After seeing your link shows how lethal they can be, but you have to Shift + right click a few times to make them group like that.
>Watch out for Psi-Storms

Zerg are fine, OP just sucks ass.

It's true that they have a lot more guessing and predicting to do than the other races and they're the most resource-heavy, but no one can apply pressure like Zerg can. Zerg armies can come from anywhere and be entirely replaced within seconds when they die.

>>588169

Lings don't even see much play against Protoss due to Reavers and Archons. Though they do have an impact late game as you said but that's due to forcing Protoss to fight you through attrition and your Zerglings attacking so fast they can snipe multiple Nexus buildings.

Zerg vs Protoss usually tends to be Muta based or optionally Hydra/Lurker based. Though apparently these days Queens are used quite infrequently now with Ensnare being used to pick off fleeing straggling units and to ensure mobility for your Mutas being dominant. Surprised the hell out of me because last time i remember playing SC1 pseudo-competitively nobody really used Queens.