/vr/ - Retro Games

>10 FPS
>top anything

Top kek.

>>5759143
He said top 10 first person shooters on the N64. How many first person shooter games games on the N64 had better Frames Per Second to compare it to? I don't believe that Goldeneye's FPS rate was any better especially since Perfect Dark came out after it.

>>5759143
Perfect Dark doesn't require 60fps or more since it's a slower-paced FPS.
>>5759170
Goldeneye actually runs a bit smoother than Perfect Dark, I'm honestly impressed how Rare managed to make PD work on the N64, sans textures, it could easily be an early Gamecube title.

Why GE/PD fans don't like Timesplitters?

>>5759192
The TS games are better in every way, and every GE/PD fan I've seen acknowledges that.

>>5759203
how so

i cant find my way to finish level 2 and im too lazy to youtube it.
sucks even more that i bought a n64 just to play perfect dark.

>>5759192
horseshit I love all those games

>>5759215
thats why goldeneye is so much better, levels are straight foward and bullshit free.

>>5759170
>quake
>doom
>duke nukem
>turok
>turok 2
>turok 3
>turok rage wars
>rainbow six
>armorines
>world is not enough
>hexen
>south park
>daikatana
and the list goes one, little zoomer.

>>5759192
I'mma tell you right now, the babified art style ruins it, and the gunplay and physics are less good

Too popular, it's shit

>>5759369
>>>/v/

>>5759224
>>south park
>>daikatana
>good
3/10 bait, made me reply.

>>5759215
What a loser.

>>5759189
I wouldn't be expecting 60fps from a 5th gen console for an FPS. 15-30fps would be the range for what's acceptable I'd say. A few dips below that every now and then could be tolerable, but Perfect Dark is hitting single digits quite frequently.

Yeah it's impressive looking for an N64 game, but it really hasn't aged well as far as playability goes. There's other FPS's on the N64, PS1, and even the Saturn that have all aged better in that regard because they maintain a higher frame rate.

>>5759170
The statue and some others run really smooth (almost 60 fps) in golden eye while jungle is almost a slide show (about 12 fps). They removed some effects like bullet holes in PD. From what I can see there is no difference in the performance when comparing similar scenes, some levels were modded between the 2 and they have the same fps. I agree it is impressive in that the game doesn't look like a down port from a more powerful system.

>>5759837
In multiplayer there are times it goes less than a frame a second

>>5758875
Easily one of my fav games of all time.i logged hundreds of hours on this just playing bots. Id say it has one of the greatest soundtracks of all time if you like electronic music.
I really wish they made another perfect dark, i just want a game where i can shoot stuff with a little grey alien buddy

>>5758875
Did you guys know that there was an absolutely kino controller configuration where you could play with 2 controllers at once? I remember i felt like a real operator when i found this out as a kid. Pretending i was really dual welding guns and really getting into the game.

>>5759192
Because it runs at 60 fps and not 007 fps

>>5759203
the timesplitters games have boring singleplayer compared to goldeneye/perfect dark

>>5759143
Just play the 360 version.

Here's your daily reminder that the story in Perfect Dark goes downhill as soon as the aliens are involved

Absolutely.

>>5759890
Timesplitters 2 has a basically the same objective-based single player mode that GE and PD had. And even though Future Perfect has a more linear story mode, it's one of the most entertaining ones in any game I've played.

>>5759213
They're just a straight evolution of the series. They look better, they run better, they control better, and they play better.

It is definitely a good game, and a top console fps. Unfortunately it can't compete with PC shooters and is definitely not in top 10 of all time because it uses a controller.

>>5759143
Perfect Dark hovers around 20fps during normal gameplay on real N64 hardware. The 360 remaster is a locked 60fps but I dislike some of its artistic choices.

>>5759192
GoldenEye/Perfect Dark are spy games. TimeSplitters is way, way more shooty-shooty focused. Remember that TimeSplitters started out as a project called Multiplayer Shooter or something like that and its core design pillar was fast paced 60fps combat.

>>5760067
Not at all. The Skedar are fantastic antagonists. Elvis is awesome. You just don't like science fiction. I bet you stopped watching the X-Files after like an episode.

>>5760157
>Unfortunately it can't compete with PC shooters and is definitely not in top 10 of all time because it uses a controller.
You say this, but the PS2 version of Deus Ex is better than the PC version, and it uses a gamepad.

>>5759170
bruh you've got to be kidding me. Almost the entire criticism of PD and GE is the frames per second they have you zoomer. That was the hit it took for pushing the N64's graphics to the limit. Goldeneye was similar. Other shooters like Quake 64 or Duke Nukem 64 were less ambitious and so got better framerate.

>>5758875
Reminder to play Perfect Dark, and Goldeneye, on the special emulator build, with full mouse aim, 1080p, 60fps. This is the definitive way to play these games, no need to play on the shitty N64 in 2019.

>>5759192
I only played timesplitters 1 and it looks like a barebones game with even less features than goldeneye

>>5760262
TS2 on GC.

>>5760262
TS1 released unfinished, that's why.

TS2 is the real deal.

>>5759192
I only played the first TS game on ps2. I liked it.

>>5760258
Why would anyone want to play these games at 1080p 60fps? Especially considering it would break the difficulty.

>>5760302
Why WOULDN’T they? It’s 2019.

>>5760302
Play on a harder difficulty then, sperg.

I always wanted to play PD with appropriate mouse + keyboard setting like PC FPS games. Is it possible nowadays? Any emulators do this?

>>5760321
http://www.shootersforever.com/forums_message_boards/viewtopic.php?t=7045

>>5760305
Because it doesn't make it better and it's not how it was designed.
>>5760316
When you get relatively good at the game 00 agent is the only challenging difficulty.

>>5760265
>>5760279
I hope, I'll play them some day

>>5760352
>Because it doesn't make it better
It makes it infinity multiplied by infinity times better

>it's not how it was designed
Who cares, shittons of games aren't played the way they were originally designed, because that way is shitty, outdated

>When you get relatively good at the game 00 agent is the only challenging difficulty.
00 Agent, and it's PD equivalent, Perfect Agent, AREN'T the highest difficulties of their respective games. That would be 007 and Perfect Dark, which allow to set enemy stats (health, damage, accuracy and reaction time) separately. Cranking everything to 100% would be the ultimate difficulty, and of course, it would be pretty much impossible with a controller and shit framerate, but on a PC, with m/kb, it's doable.

>>5760413
Man I don't know who you're trying to convince, yourself or others. But playing the games on the N64 is the only way I want to play them. You can do your own thing with kb&mouse and all that shit and it might be good but it won't be GE and PD.

>>5760464
You can play in whatever shit way you want, but the hell will anyone with a brain will prefer playing the way you do

>>5759170
>He said top 10 first person shooters on the N64
“He” (you) did not say that. Read the post again.

I don‘t get it. Perfect Dark is just a Goldeneye ripoff.

>>5760582
I hope you're baiting anon becausw Perfect Dark is better in literally every single way. Unless you were some huge James Bond fan i dont see how you could possibly see it otherwise.

>>5760170
>the PS2 version of Deus Ex is better than the PC version,
Explain how.

>>5760621
Maybe but I got used to Goldeneye and when PD came out it felt just like GE with a shitty theme.

>>5760582
>>5760632
Perfect Dark is the spiritual sequel to Goldeneye.

>>5760157
>and is definitely not in top 10 of all time because it uses a controller.
What sort of logic is this?

>>5758875
Too bad it's on insufficient hardware.

>>5760623
He's shitposting. The PS2 has better models, with higher polygon count, and a higher quality OST, but otherwise has smaller maps, lower draw distance, far less interactivity (JC automatically inserts codes and hacks instead of letting the player interact with objects), and clunky, awkward inventory management.

>>5760352
>it's too easy!
>playing with a broken framerate and terrible controls is the only thing that makes it fun :-D
Yikes.

>>5760464
>but it won't be GE and PD

mental illness

>>5760714
>>5760715
I don't know what sort of mega-retard you are but stop samefagging and stop replying to my posts. Just because too braindead to consider that some people don't care for fps like that, that the game is just as or more fun without breaking the fps of the game doesn't change the reality. Being so obsessed with numbers is autism, not "having a brain".

The controls are to me comfier on controller so I prefer them. This from someone who's played thousands of hours of competitive shooters on pc.

The frame rate in GE especially is fine for many people and is an inherent part of the game. You can't play the games with a keyboard and mouse and with 60fps and then use 007 mode to change the difficulties and call them the same games as they're very different. I even allowed that it could be fun like that but they're far from being the actual games. Everything is different, they're not the same games. If you can't handle this it's you who have the mental problems.

>>5760714
>>5760715
I don't know what sort of mega-retard you are but stop samefagging and stop replying to my posts. Just because too braindead to consider that some people don't care for fps like that, that the game is just as or more fun without breaking the fps of the game doesn't change the reality. Being so obsessed with numbers is autism, not "having a brain".

The controls are to me comfier on controller so I prefer them. This from someone who's played thousands of hours of competitive shooters on pc with kb&mouse, I have a large gaming mat and specially bought gaming mouse.

The frame rate in GE especially is fine for many people and is an inherent part of the game. You can't play the games with a keyboard and mouse and with 60fps and then use 007 mode to change the difficulties and call them the same games as they're very different. I even allowed that it could be fun like that but they're far from being the actual games. Everything is different, they're not the same games. If you can't handle this it's you who have the mental problems.

>>5760326
Thansk for this, plays amazingly well.

>>5760858
t. N64 toddler

>>5760862
No kidding, don't mind the braindead faggots saying "it's not the same game!!!!" just because it has immensely superior controls and actually playable framerate.

>>5760861
>if doom is played with a gamepad it is no longer doom

this is literal mental illness

>>5759886

I get to know that many years later. People really used to play with default controls at the time (the better one was digital acting like WASD and analogic as the mouse, anyway).

>>5760164
My main complaint is that c button aiming and analog stick aiming drastically change gameplay.
As I can't statically "set" my Y axis to headshot height.
Outside of that it's close enough for my liking.

>>5760989
I'm not 100% on this... but I'm pretty sure you can map Doom to a gamepad/joystick if you were so inclined.
Or at the very least a lot of FPS games of that era could. Don't know why Doom wouldn't.

>>5759170
Turok 1 (NOT 2 or 3)
>>5759224
2, 3, and RW dont maintain constant 30.

>>5759887
>007 fps
>>5759215
The worst part about Anno Domini 2019 is that I'm not sure if you're serious or not. Great baitpost btw. On many levels.

>>5759886
I use that for speedruns

>>5759215
>>5759217
Perfect Dark still has one of the best first acts ever in videogames. First level is some crazy ass Elevator Action infiltration, second level is some spy espionage heist with a twist ending, and the third level is a remix of the first with some new tricks thrown at you as you exfiltrate in the reverse direction. Perfect first act.

>>5762241
Turok 2 was the best though

>fps
>almost have no fps
Lol

>>5760623
PS2 version has an animation system that isn't dogshit. It has a superior inventory system where you don't collect a million knives and cigarette packets. The shooting is also better.

>>5760659
>(JC automatically inserts codes and hacks instead of letting the player interact with objects)
Which solved the problem of people just looking up keycodes on the internet. You have to actually find the keycode to use it. You can no longer have knowledge that JC Denton couldn't possibly possess.
>and clunky, awkward inventory management.
PS2 inventory is light years better than the PC version.

>>5760150
This is just false. Enemy animations/reactions/sounds are far more satisfying in GoldenEye/Perfect Dark and this is a massive part of what a game has to offer. I would argue the setting and aesthetics are better in GE/PD as well, and the N64 obviously has better FPS controls with a more precise joystick and 1.2 control style giving you as close as it comes to PC-like controls on a console FPS.

There are other weird oddities with TimeSplitters like how getting shot gives basically zero feedback compared to GoldenEye/Perfect Dark where the character makes a distinct pain sound and is pushed away from the damage source.

I think TimeSplitters is a good game series but absolutely not as good as GoldenEye or Perfect Dark for the above reasons.

As an aside, I think many of the famous N64 FPS aside from these two classics have aged terribly. The Turok series is nearly completely unplayable due to a combination of unchangeable inverted vertical aiming (a nightmare if you're used to the upright setting in GE or PD or if you're coming back to these classics after playing PC FPS for the last 10 years), lookspring (how could someone possibly have ever thought this was a good idea at all?), lookahead (see previous point), weird aim acceleration (letting go of the joystick doesn't stop your aim where you stopped moving the stick, but rather the camera gradually winds down to a stop, making quick precision aiming close to impossible), and in the case of every Turok game except the first one, ridiculously low framerate (if you think GE or PD are laggy, don't bother trying to play Turok 2 or 3).

>>5760413
>impossible with a controller and shit frame rate

Except every single level has been done that way.

https://youtu.be/7zeE1dZkEcs

No matter how much you try to deny it, playing it on the 60 FPS emulated version is purely wrong. To just give you a comparison of why, look at these two videos:

https://youtu.be/aLpsa1y5QWQ

https://youtu.be/T1obq8_eTYs

The game engine quite literally is unable to handle the higher framerate, N64 emulation is extremely imperfect, and the game is not balanced around the precision aim controls a mouse offers.

Wish I knew why Goldeneye and Perfect Dark make PCfriends so rear pained. PC has plenty of good shooters, it’s ok for N64 to have a couple of its own.

Developers of Goldeneye/PD explained that they deliberately designed the game to be slower and more tactical than Doom and its clones because controllers can’t match KB/M for twitch shooting. It was a refreshingly honest approach to designing a console FPS which is why I think Goldeneye/PD aged better than Halo which tried to ape PC shooters.

No it’s not that the game has shitty shooting controls, but that if the shooting is too precise it totally fucks with the other game mechanics like stealth. Same reason why JC Denton can’t shoot for shit at the start of Deus Ex.

>>5762634
>The Turok series is nearly completely unplayable due to a combination of unchangeable inverted vertical aiming (a nightmare if you're used to the upright setting in GE or PD or if you're coming back to these classics after playing PC FPS for the last 10 years), lookspring (how could someone possibly have ever thought this was a good idea at all?), lookahead (see previous point), weird aim acceleration (letting go of the joystick doesn't stop your aim where you stopped moving the stick, but rather the camera gradually winds down to a stop, making quick precision aiming close to impossible), and in the case of every Turok game except the first one, ridiculously low framerate (if you think GE or PD are laggy, don't bother trying to play Turok 2 or 3).
wtf, you were doing fine until you randomly started sperginge about Turoks. The inverted aiming takes 2 minutes to get used to, you can turn look spring off .

>>5762676
Well, *I* wish I knew why Nintenfags are so butthurt about people choosing to NOT play these games with shit settings, using an emulator at a PC instead, with mouse aim and high framerate, and not controllers and sub-10fps, like nintenretards say it's "good" to play.

>>5762663
>Playing Mario on anything other than an original NES is purely wrong, now excuse me, I'm gonna have an autistic sperging because people are choosing to NOT play Mario at inferior (but original!!!) settings,

>>5762663
>shit fps and controls are part of the difficulty
Reminder that this is what happens when you fall for the
>just the way the developers intended :^)
meme

>>5762676
>Wish I knew why Goldeneye and Perfect Dark make PCfriends so rear pained
Those darn PCfriends sure do sound upset that they're able to play at 60fps with great controls. I bet they're just seething with rage that they have the option play the games in an objectively superior format. They're right, you really are a schizo.

>>5762775
>>5762781
>>5762787
You're a fucking retard who has no brain, the end.

>>5762791
If you want to play it on N64 for nostalgia purposes, that's perfectly fine. If you want to play it with m/kb, that's fine too. Take your pills.

>>5762791
>Nintenigger calling anyone brainless
Kek, it's like you guys don't have any self-awareness

>>5760169
The skedar aren't any fun to fight. The final levels in PD are fucking awful

>>5759886
speedrunners use that setting with both controllers duct taped to their leg

>>5759890
Wow, how wrong you are

>>5759143
>kvetching about fps in a retro games thread
boy I tell ya.

>>5762837
I like them, they are a nice change from the easy to kill human enemies, except for those fuckers in CI with K7 Avengers and shields. Just wish they had a little more variety, 90% of them use maulers or try to melee you.

>>5762856
The majority of retro games are running at 60. Defending nauseating framerates is a zoomer thing. Zoom zoom, kiddo.

>>5762870
You're the zoomer. 3d fps games did not always reach high frame rates. Imagine being so insecure that you have to shit on others with this tard nonsense. A book doesn't have the same framerate as a movie, that doesn't mean the movie is better. It's like remaking the final fantasy games in 3d and saying they're better because "graphics".

>>5762904
>moves the goalposts from retro games to 3d fps games
zoomy zoom zoom

>>5762939
The entire thread is about 3d fps games.

Must be awful to find out you have dementia.

>>5762740
You can turn lookspring off in every Turok but 1. You can't turn lookahead off. You never countered my point about camera aim acceleration.

If you can actually tell me any Turok game has even remotely close to the same level of control as GE or PD I'll laugh.

>>5762775
>>5762781
Yes, it totally makes sense to be able to empty your 30-shot mag in half a second for every single weapon in the entire game. That totally doesn't break the game, and neither does the mouse aiming which gives you infinitely superior control compared to what the developers intended and designed the entire game around. If you actually enjoy playing that way, nobody's stopping you, but judging the game based on that experience rather than the game's actual experience is just objectively the wrong way to do it and you are only hurting yourself by playing the gimped version of the game.

>>5763462
You've never even played these games, have you? You're just some shitposter from /v/ here to stir shit about you don't understand.

>>5763513
Are you a retard? I've played GoldenEye hundreds of hours and still play it regularly. I even have multiple world records on individual level speedruns for the N64 version. My posts basically prove that I do understand the game engine and the game in general. Pretty much everyone who plays the game still in 2019 agrees that original N64 is the only way to play both GoldenEye and Perfect Dark.

If I hadn't played the games, why would I have ready links of speedruns from both the N64 version and the 60 FPS emulated version to disprove all the retarded shit you are spouting? Why would I recognize the clear issue with the game engine leading to absolutely absurd rates of fire on the 60 FPS version compared to the original, with its much lower framerate?

>>5763661
>>5763513
Here is yet another example of two videos showing the massive difference in weapon firing rate, which yes, does break the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvY7Ztcm5Pw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAmDqZxuOEo

>>5763661
>Pretty much everyone who plays the game still in 2019 agrees that original N64 is the only way to play both GoldenEye and Perfect Dark
That's verifiably false. There's several ways to play it, many mentioned in this very thread. Didn't bother reading the rest of your schizo babble since you've clearly lost it.

>>5763921
"I will now proceed to take every sentence as literally as possible so that I will sound correct in an anonymous image board"

Nice

>>5763661
>Pretty much everyone who plays the game still in 2019 agrees that original N64 is the only way to play both GoldenEye and Perfect Dark.
Only Ninteniggers, that haven't played these games for 15 years, believe that. Everyone else will want the best possible experience.

>b-b-but it's not the real games
They're as real just as the Turok games re-releases are still Turok, despite being improved for modern systems and audiences.

>>5763462
>That totally doesn't break the game, and neither does the mouse aiming which gives you infinitely superior control compared to what the developers intended and designed the entire game around.
If FPS games were cars, the mouse would be the steering wheel. It's a feature inherent to cars that nothing else can compare. If a car maker decided to make a car that's controlled by driving stick instead, the experience of driving that car would be pretty bad, because it's a bad adaptation of a feature essential to every car. Any driver that rode that car would be infinitely better off replacing the driving stick by a traditional steering wheel.

>playing the gimped version of the game
That's what those that insist on playing on N64 when there's better options around are doing.

>>5763953
The Turok game re-releases are actually based on a game that doesn't break based on framerate and are actually well-designed ports, not just a direct emulation.

>>5763974
GoldenEye and Perfect Dark are both trash games emulated on PC. You would be much better off playing basically any other FPS if you have mouse and keyboard controls at 60+ FPS. However, as far as console FPS go, GoldenEye and Perfect Dark are the gold standard, offering the best controls and the best gameplay. I see little reason to even bother emulating these games if you are after the fast-paced FPS experience. The N64 version is clearly better when you consider the limitations of the engine, the game's design, and how emulation breaks it.

>>5763953
Pretty much all of the hundreds of active speedrunners of GoldenEye and Perfect Dark (who are basically the two games' entire 2019 playerbase) agree the N64 version of the game is the better experience.

I'll just say i don't care if you play it on console or with the 60fps build, GE and PD are still damn great.

>>5764001
>(who are basically the two games' entire 2019 playerbase)
Rubbish. Plenty of people go back and play these games routinely for fun that aren't speedrunners.

>>5764045
Why have you or anyone else yet to counter my argument regarding fire rate and other engine oddities that are caused by 60 FPS/higher framerate?

>>5764058
I'm not the one claiming against that you spastic. You're the one making this claim that only speedrunners play these games on N64 anymore .

>>5764074
That is true. Speedrunners make up about 90-95% of the playerbase and likely 99+% of the playing hours in recent years.

>>5764085
yeah see that's it again. That's the horseshit you're just pulling out of your ass. That other anon was right about you - you're schizophrenic and delusional.

>>5764090
Except that is all facts.

>>5764058
I think you're confusing "engine oddities" with game logic being tied to framerate. There are no oddities there, everything is running as intended. Speedrunners take advantage of this on original hardware by continually looking down and attempting to maximize fps as the game literally runs in slow motion otherwise. Fire rate is faster when the game is running faster, just like it's massively slowed when the game tanks to low single digit framerates. I actually agree with you that playing at 60 with a mouse and keyboard isn't the original experience. Where we differ is that you seem to be getting hung up on this notion that anything outside of the original experience is wrong. I get that it's an important part of your childhood (personally, even as a kid I had no problem recognizing that GE was really, really rough and played poorly on the hardware), and sometimes when we see people taking things from our childhood and using them in a manner that is unfamiliar to us, we lash out. It's easy to do on chans, but you seem to be taking this whole thing poorly, and that's not healthy.

I like you anon, I hope you enjoy the games as you like them, and I hope others can enjoy them as they like them. Maybe one day you can meet in the middle.

ignoring engine oddities, ge/pd aren't built for mouse look and you will destroy max difficulty ai with no effort.
however i can understand not wanting to play the game on real hardware in 2019 though.

>>5764173
For blitzing through levels, I actually think gamepad + auto aim is easier than mouse with auto aim disabled. Same goes for timesplitters, that autoaim is really generous.

>>5764001
>>5764058
So just lock the emulation to 30fps and use a controller instead of a mouse?

>>5758875
I absolutely loved it. My only complaint was how short it was.

>>5758875
I absolutely loved it. My only complaint was how short it was.>>5759192
I loved the Timesplitters series. Hella fun. Not quite the moodiness of Perfect Dark, but damn fun.

perfect dark was very challenging and balanced for its time. lots of things to unlock with different achievements which wasn't huge at the time.

>>5764140
The game engine is designed to have lag compensation techniques. The game does not literally run in slow motion at a low framerate, due to the game's own (admittedly flawed) lag compensation, a staple of Rare games on the 64. The reason why speedrunners look down is because, due to an oddity in the engine, forward movement speed (not sideways/strafe movement speed) is tied to framerate, as is rate of fire, and many other things you wouldn't expect.

The game running at 60 FPS breaks this aspect of the game, hence why everything appears to be running normally, and then you fire your KF7 and suddenly realize something is wrong when barely tapping the fire button made you suddenly lose half the bullets in your magazine. There are many other aspects of the game which are simply broken or just feel wrong due to being on a higher framerate.

I am in fact a games purist, so I actually do prefer to always use original hardware in spite of any limitations the original devs might have had in terms of optimizing framerate or whatever, but I would argue that even if you are not such a purist, you should still use original hardware over 60 FPS mouse and keyboard emulation due to the reasons I've listed in the thread.

>>5764173
This is truth.

>>5764195
This is verifiably false on every level and you can prove it by seeing world records set through hundreds of hours of play being crushed in minutes by people using 60 FPS emulators. See the 0:57 world record Train Agent speedrun on N64 hardware compared to the 0:43 word record Train Agent speedrun on 60 FPS mouse+keyboard emulated, which does not use any form of auto aim.

>>5764203
This could work, but in my opinion still wouldn't be as good as original N64 due to how poor N64 emulation is. If N64 emulation was better, then this would be a fine solution.

>>5764875
>Yeah dude, just play garbage, it's totally the best way. Sure, the controls and framerate are unbearable, but at least it's the original!!!!

I say you shove your original hardware up your ass, and I'll keep shilling the mouse/60fps option. Not everyone is a pretentious speedrunner, you think you're respected? You're laughed at for being an obsessive autist with no life.

>>5764140
You are a fucking idiot. Just because most of the people you see online are speedrunners doesn't make all the people who play these games on original hardware speedrunners. There are many people who have never went to those sites or signed up and there are even plenty of people on those sites doing many types of challenges not speedrunning. Every last fucking thing you said about playing on original hardware is invalidated by saying that because nobody would ever claim that you could speedrun with mouse and keyboard.

It literally upsets me that someone could exist that is as dumb as you are. You have just a child's mentality making up stuff as you please and I find it incredibly hard to believe that you have ever got a world record in a game like Goldeneye, it could be possible that you are an idiot savant but seems unlikely.

>>5764098
You are a fucking idiot. Just because most of the people you see online are speedrunners doesn't make all the people who play these games on original hardware speedrunners. There are many people who have never went to those sites or signed up and there are even plenty of people on those sites doing many types of challenges not speedrunning. Every last fucking thing you said about playing on original hardware is invalidated by saying that because nobody would ever claim that you could speedrun with mouse and keyboard.

It literally upsets me that someone could exist that is as dumb as you are. You have just a child's mentality making up stuff as you please and I find it incredibly hard to believe that you have ever got a world record in a game like Goldeneye, it could be possible that you are an idiot savant but seems unlikely. Look at yourself trying to troll people by saying "is all facts", the only way you got a WR in anything is something hardly anyone has ever gone for.

* quoted the wrong post first and had to delete that one.

>>5763452
>If you can actually tell me any Turok game has even remotely close to the same level of control as GE or PD I'll laugh.
IMO Turok 3 handles very well. It's the only N64 Turok game where binding the analogue stick to a mouse in emulators works well due to the option to disable inverted aim and look spring.

>>5762837
>The skedar aren't any fun to fight.
They're snakes riding around in mechs. They move slowly but they take a lot of damage and have cool weapons. They're cool to fight because they look badass.
>>5762837
>The final levels in PD are fucking awful
Attack Ship is amazing. The Skedar Ruins are atmospheric kino.

>>5765460
How's Turok 3 emulation? Does it work well?

>>5764875
>This is verifiably false
Anon that post didn't mention 60fps.

>>5765462
Turok 3's lighting system requires either GLideN64 or Angrylion's to work correctly. GLideN64 is mostly accurate with the game, but the framebuffer-based shadows are black instead of being soft and fuzzy.

Also, loading emulator save states tends to cause the emulators to freeze due to a quirk in how Turok 2/3 handle audio.

>>5758875
>Perfect Dark is one of the most impressive games on the N64
Yes
>and I would say that it's a top FPS for sure.
Nah. It just can't compete with PC FPS tbqh. Still an outstanding game and amazing achievement for N64. I would like to see it remade for PC. Never tried that remaster they made for XBox 360. All they'd have to do to make it appropriate for PC would be to make the enemies faster (and maybe make it so that they can shoot while moving instead of being stuck in those slow animations while doing so), then it would transfer over well to KBM.

>>5765539
>All they'd have to do to make it appropriate for PC would be to make the enemies faster (and maybe make it so that they can shoot while moving instead of being stuck in those slow animations while doing so), then it would transfer over well to KBM.
Seems like you completely misunderstand the gameplay. Play on 00 Agent sometime, not just Agent.

>>5765539
>(and maybe make it so that they can shoot while moving
Terrible idea. AI shooting while moving is one of several reasons why Half-Life 2 is such a terrible FPS game. Perfect Dark has some special modes where the AI will advance upon the player, unloading an entire magazine at them, but this is rare. Thinking man's FPS games can't have enemies who basically behave like multiplayer bots. They have to behave like human beings. Have you ever seen a human being attempt to move while firing a gun?

>>5765546
You hopeless faggot. I literally 100%'d both Golden Eye and Perfect Dark on original N64 when I didn't even have pubes. I beat both games on the hardest difficulties and unlocked all the cheats by doing the required speedrun times. I'd play my friends 3v1 and beat them with scores like 20-0-0-1 on Golden Eye.

The games were designed with N64 controller limitations in mind. On KBM it would be ridiculously easy to shitfuck the campaign. It sounds to me like you're too retarded to actually use a mouse.

>>5765549
>Thinking man's FPS games
I can't imagine unironically typing this.
>Have you ever seen a human being attempt to move while firing a gun?
Many, many times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpr8oqyjKIc

I don't see why PD being easier should be seen as a bad thing. The core appeal of the games isn't combat difficulty. It's the experience of being a spy and solving objectives.

RE4 is piss-easy on a M+KB, yet people still love that game.

>>5765549
>Thinking man's FPS games
Is that what you consider Perfect Dark? How hard did your mom actually drop you on your head as a child?

And no, being able to shoot while moving does not equal a bot you dickhead. Bots don't flinch. I didn't say anything about removing enemies flinching from getting shot.

Anyway Half Life 2 enemies were fine. Seems you're another retard that can't use a mouse, ggs.

>>5765553
>Many, many times.
Those are severely controlled conditions. Also, he's basically only moving side to side.

>>5765551
>The games were designed with N64 controller limitations in mind.
*as well as N64 20fps performance

>>5765558
>Anyway Half Life 2 enemies were fine.
HL2's enemies have zero hit reactions. They're like shooting a sack of potatoes that drops dead when its health hits zero. They also move while shooting and can't be stunlocked by shooting them in the arm or otherwise disabling them. This results in HL2's poorly designed combat encounters (which were hastily papered over with the dynamic resupply system) being a war of attrition where not being shot is remarkably difficult but it's okay because free health.

>>5765551
>The games were designed with N64 controller limitations in mind. On KBM it would be ridiculously easy to shitfuck the campaign. It sounds to me like you're too retarded to actually use a mouse.
I don’t even know what your point is, other than trying to prove what I was saying that there is no easy fix to make Goldeneye’s gameplay work properly with a KB/M. Except maybe with a Deus Ex style aiming hack.

>>5765558
GoldenEye and Perfect Dark are from the same lineage as Thief and Deus Ex. They are FPS games that prioritize thinking over reflexes. It's not about shooting stuff, just as Thief isn't about hitting people with a blackjack. You do that a whole bunch, but you do it because these people are an obstacle to you achieving your goals.

>>5765560
Anon you're moving the goalposts. Special forces are trained to move and shoot in close quarters. Here is more human beings attempting to move while firing guns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEjqf9wlYU
The enemies you're fighting in perfect dark (and most in golden eye) would be the equivalent of special forces. Being so upset at someone else that you refuse to acknowledge that maybe you were wrong on a single point isn't a great sign.

>>5765571
>Special forces are trained to move and shoot in close quarters.
Most of Perfect Dark's NPCs are literal security guards.

>>5765575
Anon this is ridiculous. Are you going to keep doubling down, or will you concede that you were wrong about human beings firing guns while moving?

>>5765571
Something you're forgetting is Martin Hollis and his "cinematic realism" idea. Go watch the movie GoldenEye and study how the Russian soldiers behave. Study how they shoot at Bond. How they pause between shots. How they completely miss him because he's the hero. It's no accident that GE's NPCs miss you by a mile when they take their first shot. It's no accident that they roll. It's no accident that PD's NPCs tumble over balconies when shot. The entire aesthetic of GE/PD is designed to mimic spy movies where the spy goes pew-pew with his/her silenced pistol and the hapless soldiers die super dramatically. Where explosions make them fly through the air.

The real trick for making a new Perfect Dark or GE would be figuring out how to prevent the player twitch shooting from the hip. How to force them to be more methodical about their shooting.

>>5765583
See, now that's actually a great argument against it. Capturing a specific aesthetic is important. Not that silly "humans can't move and shoot" shit.

>>5765581
We aren't talking about special forces. The enemies in GE/PD are not special forces.
We aren't talking about close quarters. Most combat encounters in GE/PD take place at a moderate distance.

The entire point of games like PD is that you walk into the room and everyone is sitting in chairs. They see you, and they get out of their chairs. Then they start shooting. It's not some special forces CQC hostage takedown simulation.

The problem with HL2's combat is that the Combine move and shoot at the same time, yet they don't respond to being shot. They behave like MP bots. The original HL had a much better idea. The Marines can't move and shoot. They must do one or the other. This allows the player to move in between bursts of fire from the Marines.

>>5765567
>GoldenEye and Perfect Dark are from the same lineage as Thief and Deus Ex
They're really not. Thief and Deus Ex are both fucking awful games with terrible gameplay. GE and PD, while not great today, at the time were very good for console FPS standards. I could never get into ass like Thief or Deus Ex but I loved GE and PD back in the day.

>They are FPS games that prioritize thinking over reflexes. It's not about shooting stuff
I think you're fucking retarded. There's far more shooting than anything else in GE/PD, especially in GE. The "missions" were just gimmicks briefly interspersed with far more shooting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJhJubSDuRc
If these games weren't gameplay driven, they wouldn't have had such popular multiplayer modes. And I have no doubt that my 11 year old self could destroy you as an adult. And I bet my balls you can't 100% these games even now because you're fucking retarded

Seriously only an absolute pillock would consider GE or PD a "thinking man's FPS". Fuck me you're hopeless.

>>5765602
>links the one fucking level which has a time limit to make his point

>>5765610
And that proves me wrong how asshole? That only shows that the player has to have a strong mastery of the mechanics to be able to get through it in time. Why don't you go through that level without shooting anyone since GoldenEye is apparently "not about shooting stuff"?

>>5765602
>Thief and Deus Ex are both fucking awful games with terrible gameplay
Rude.

>>5765602
>Thief and Deus Ex are both fucking awful games with terrible gameplay.
Opinion discarded, bro. Thief and Thief 2 and even Thief 3 are absolute masterpieces. Deus Ex 1 remains possibly the single greatest videogame ever created. Those games exist in large part due to GoldenEye. Thief's approach to mission design was inspired by GoldenEye. Deus Ex 1 is very obviously GE inspired even if you never note that its design document cites GE.
>>5765602
>There's far more shooting than anything else in GE/PD, especially in GE. The "missions" were just gimmicks briefly interspersed with far more shooting.
GoldenEye literally invented the modern stealth genre. The way silenced weapons work, the way alarms work, the way cameras work. All of it was codified by GoldenEye. What sets GE apart from most of its peers in 1997 was that you were essentially punished for going loud. Gunfire attracted attention. Taking things slowly and quietly gave you breathing room and sometimes allowed you to avoid combat outright. The core focus of GoldenEye and Perfect Dark is solving the list of objectives.

Mario 64 is not really about platforming. It's about solving the objectives to collect the stars. Figuring out riddles, figuring out puzzles. You do a lot of jumping around, but the jumping around isn't the real focus of Mario 64. GoldenEye was directly inspired by Mario 64.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJhJubSDuRc
Silo is a barely disguised rail shooter adaption. Its design is an aberration. Even Train, which was another legacy mission from when GE was a rail shooter, had some degree of complexity and exploration. The hardest part of Train was using a laser wristwatch to open a hatch on the floor. Shooting your way through the train was just a means to an end.

>>5765618
Just because Goldeneye likes to mix it up a little doesn't change the fact that the game is more tactical than Doom.

>>5765618
>Why don't you go through that level without shooting anyone since GoldenEye is apparently "not about shooting stuff"?
I think you're comprehensively misunderstanding that statement. GoldenEye is shootier than Perfect Dark, but it's ultimately a game about being a spy. A movie spy with gadgets on a mission to stop a Russian satellite from EMPing the UK. James Bond movies are not about Bond shooting people. Bond shoots people, but that's not what Bond is about fundamentally. He shoots people as part of his job.

Doom Guy shoots demons. That is what he does. He doesn't shoot demons as part of his job. Shooting demons IS his job.

>>5765623
>Opinion discarded, bro. Thief and Thief 2 and even Thief 3 are absolute masterpieces. Deus Ex 1 remains possibly the single greatest videogame ever created.
Nope, they're all fucking awful games with awful boring mechanics. Core RPG is basically a genre made for adults that wear diapers and have nobody to speak to irl so they communicate with NPCs instead to get their social interaction fix. Deus Ex in particular is the single most overrated pile of shit ever created. Honestly I pity retards that think they're "intelligent" for playing these games. You must seriously lack any real accomplishments in your life. But I digress.

>GoldenEye literally invented the modern stealth genre.
Whether or not this is true is completely irrelevant. It's still a gameplay driven experience. If anybody is slow enough to think that some stealth segments suddenly makes something a "thinking man's FPS" holy fucking crap my 11 year old self is laughing at you. Fuck me how fucking thick are you?

>Mario 64 is not really about platforming.
Oh jesus now you're just trolling. Kys my man.

>Silo is a barely disguised rail shooter adaption. Its design is an aberration. Even Train, which was another legacy mission from when GE was a rail shooter, had some degree of complexity and exploration. The hardest part of Train was using a laser wristwatch to open a hatch on the floor. Shooting your way through the train was just a means to an end.
Yes GoldenEye isn't about shooting at all. Good luck going through the game without shooting anything you complete fucking nimrod.

>>5765646
>Bond shoots people, but that's not what Bond is about fundamentally.
But that is what GoldenEye is fundamentally about. It's a gameplay driven experience, not a "thinking man's FPS". Only a fucking gerbil would consider it to be a "thinking man's game." Vast majority of the game is combat based. Most of the the missions are merely gimmicks pretty much disguised as key hunts required to beat the level. "Hurr I put this hacking device on this modem durrr" is no different than flicking a switch that allows you to complete a level.

>>5765652
>>Mario 64 is not really about platforming.
>Oh jesus now you're just trolling. Kys my man.
I hate to break it to you, but the Mario 64 team weren't confident that a focus on platforming would translate well to 3D. Originally, Mario 64 was going to be a platforming game. Those Bowser courses are basically leftovers from what the game was originally going to be. Process along a linear path avoiding obstacles. Mario 64 overall threw this out the window in favor of an objective-driven sandbox where you were given a list of tasks with riddles and word-play for hints, and set loose to complete the objectives in any order you saw fit. Mario 64 isn't a platformer in the sense something like Crash Bandicoot is. In fact, most N64 "platformers" aren't really platformers. They're these strange genre hybrids.

>>5765662
>It's a gameplay driven experience, not a "thinking man's FPS". Only a fucking gerbil would consider it to be a "thinking man's game." Vast majority of the game is combat based.
What would you consider a thinking man's FPS, then?

>>5765673
Hate to break it to you but you're actually retarded. The entire game's progression requires platforming (no shit!) you infantile fucking fool.
>Mario 64 isn't a platformer in the sense something like Crash Bandicoot is
Yes because it's sandbox based, that doesn't make it any less of a platformer. Having objectives (that require PLATFORMING) to achieve does not make it any less of a platformer. In fact Mario 64's platforming is FAR richer than CB since it utilises 3D space properly. It was built up from the ground with analog stick in mind. CB was pretty much a retarded limited game built with a 2D design philosophy since PlayStation didn't originally ship with analog sticks.

>>5765679
Not that anon, but I think the early rainbow six games, or even better, the Swat series, fit that definition better than any games listed in this thread.

>>5762634
>not using inverted aiming, what are you gay?

Also Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are both by default inverted

>>5765679
Nothing really, I don't liken video games to "thinking man's" in any sense of the term and I pity anyone who does. Hell I've never described anything as "thinking man's something". Some people for example like to call Tool "thinking man's metal" and to me they come off as pretentious fucking dickheads, which is exactly what they are. Why would anybody call something "thinking man's X"? It's preposterous as all hell, especially when describing a smash hit video game played and completed by countless (dumb) children throughout the '90s.

>>5765694
You're probably American. "Thinking man's XYZ" is a British expression to my knowledge.

>>5765694
>>5765704
A recent variation is a thinking man's crumpet. Yes you have sex with her amazing body. But it's her mind that's the real focus.

>>5765694
Thinking man's just means games you have to think about rather than pure action, whether that means men, women or children. No need to go full sperge over it.

>>5765694
I've always seen the term used sarcastically.
>Some people for example like to call Tool "thinking man's metal"
They're being sarcastic, anon.

>>5765704
Nope, britbong. I don't use the term because it's fucking stupid, especially so in the current argument. Hell the only place I have seen this term used is on the internet, usually in some pretentious review of what-have-you, and it's always from some absolute fucking idiot that thinks he's far smarter than he actually is.

>>5765715
See above.

>>5765716
I know when an article/post is sarcasm fuckface.

Another retro fps thread ruined.

>>5765894
it amazes me how /vr/ can't talk about some games because it always turns into a shitfest.

>>5766009
mustards can't cope with the existence of competition in "their" genre

>>5766015
interesting revisionism. the entire thread has been shit up by one dedicated autist furious that mustards are playing games in a way that he dislikes

>>5765513
There is no emulated version of GE that doesn't have better FPS but also has mouse controls, so he may as well have.

>>5765458
>nobody would ever claim that you could speedrun with mouse and keyboard.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ1fSmVNGX-Bbxw7MEz_eBw

>I find it incredibly hard to believe that you have ever got a world record in a game like Goldeneye... the only way you got a WR in anything is something hardly anyone has ever gone for.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3NuXWcacXJIhhKu3OB_ea2mtQ3YUlsM5

You seem extremely upset. Try to calm down if you plan on replying again.

>>5765623
>Silo and Train, the game's best two levels, an "aberration" of design

Simply wrong opinion. Somewhat more linear than most, but they're action-packed and hard, as well as require the best execution. The game has these types of levels as well as more basic ones where simply running and dodging gunfire or taking it slow and "sneaking" is an option. This doesn't make the linear levels bad.

I put many hours in the multiplayer mode with bots. I loved the unique bot types, slow bots, fast bots, shielded bots, bots that had a preferential target or weapon.
My favorite custom scenario was playing Ravine, with 2 bots on my team and everyone else was fast bots. I would position my bots in one of the high spots in a way that they could cover all entrances, the only weapon would be a rifle, usually the AR34, that spawned in this spot so the bots could easily reload if needed. Every other weapon would be knifes, mostly used by enemy fast bots. It was like a zombie survival scenario, had lots of fun with it.
Anyone else did autistic things in multiplayer?

I played it through and experimented with all the multiplayer challenge options. Very impressive N64 shooter, particularly liked the remote control item and the gun from Eraser that could acquire targets through walls. Had very little replay value, for some reason. Now when I pick up GE or PD I can't even play like 20 minutes and I'm sick of it, even though I used to spend weekends playing them.

>>5760240
PUSH IT TO THE LIMIT

>>5766769
You're just a fool. There is something really wrong with you. These links lead nowhere, they in no way go against anything I said in any way imaginable. The only reasonable thing you could be replying here is by saying you were wrong and retarded to claim that almost every person who plays these games on original hardware is speedrunning them. I am sorry if you are a legitimately mentally challenged person but if you're going to be saying ignorant bullshit online that makes no sense it's going to upset people. Don't talk about what other people do or don't do without the slightest reason or evidence to think that.