/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5748352
0/10 B8 M8

>>5748352
The only two reasons I can think of for someone being opposed to it are:
1. Sour grapes. They know that a lot of unpreserved things are in the hands of people who will never share them, so instead of giving them the satisfaction of seeing how badly other people want their rarity, they go the opposite and pretend like they actively do not want it preserved
2. They're corporation fans who are extremely concerned about protecting the copyright of old, sometimes unfinished software for the sake of the legal and business side of a company that itself probably doesn't even actively defend it's old, unfinished software from being shared.

Rich assholes and brainwashed boot lickers.

>>5748363
So to sum it up, they act like literal children or corporate shills. I agree.

>>5748352
If you mean emulation, digital copies to be played on software isn't preservation. They'd be better than nothing, but preservation is replacing batteries capacitors, lasers, maintaining cart slots, possibly using archival plastic, and keeping exposure to sun and humidity to a minimum, and cleaning controller contacts. There's a lot more to it than code on a hard drive.

>>5748352
Preservation and emulation go hand in hand. There are people on this board right now that have spent thousands of dollars collecting plastic for systems that have cycle accurate emulation, not because they love the games, but because they see it as an investment. When a game is preserved via a perfect verified dump, their plastic is no longer special to anyone but fellow plastic hoarders.

>>5748373
Fox, meet grapes.

>>5748352
I'm in favour of preserving every unique game and its major ports.
that's not the same thing as obsessively preserving every pre-release version or obscure port of every game.

I'm not defending collectorfags, because those cunts actually prevent unique games from being made available.

>>5748402
The question here is, do the guys that are out there "obsessively preserving every pre-release version or obscure port" negatively affect you in any way?

>>5748406
nope, but when they make seethe threads like this one pretending to be under attack it annoys me.
don't deny that this thread is intended to initiate conflict.

and, just for the record: games aren't art.

>>5748352
It's not the concept of preserving video games that's bad. But everyone who seems heavily invested in it are all extremely annoying so it's caused backlash.

>>5748409
>but when they make seethe threads like this one pretending to be under attack it annoys me
Do you think that OP is bidding on rare games and participating in the dumping?
>don't deny that this thread is intended to initiate conflict
Other than plastic enthusiasts, who would get mad at this?
>just for the record: games aren't art
Glad we've established this once and for all. Maybe now the radical egalitarian schizos will go back to smearing menstrual blood and shit all over a canvas and leave our hobby alone.

>>5748409
>and, just for the record: games aren't art.

Anything requiring skill can be art.

>>5748382
>Why can't everyone be as devoid of soul as I am
The bugman speaks.

>>5748409
>and, just for the record: games aren't art.
Illuminating take. And they are.

>>5748409
>don't deny that this thread is intended to create conflict
How convenient, you spammed the board with some fake collectorfag vs emulation conflict all last week (that was never ever a thing here) and now when a thread barely sniffs the subject you, alone, chimp out and screech and then claim the thread was made to create conflict.

You should be taken out back and shot, you're the lowest garbage on this website, desperate to remake the culture here into one of conflict and sub group infighting for your own twisted reasons. Fuck right off back to mental illness land >>>/v/

>>5748402
>obsessively preserving every pre-release version or obscure port of every game.
My take: playing notably different from final pre-release builds of a beloved game is as close as you can get to replicating the experience of playing the same game again for the first time, that feeling of not knowing what exactly will come next.

>>5748442
I didn't create a single thread last week retard.
I'm just tired of having every thread be confict themed. it's either collectorfag vs anti-collectorfag, crt-fag vs anti-crt-fag, preservationist vs anti-preservationsist, console war etc. etc.
you're the one nurturing a culture of conflict.

speaking out against obnoxious /v/ influence doesn't make me a /v/tard

>>5748454
This site is now almost completely geared towards conflict. The site is a time kill and not much gets as many replies or wastes as much time as arguing over stupid shit. I don't care about this topic too much, but the idea of preservation is dumb to me as there is no real guideline and therefore paying big money or spending time on bad games made by amateurs that nobody wants to play has no purpose in my opinion. And before someone replies, I don't care, it's my opinion, I wont read responses and no bad isn't always objective. Some Macromedia shit can not be compared to an actual classic game that tons of people love and influenced countless people and further work, like Zniggy's Quest.

>>5748442
>collectorfag vs emulation conflict all last week (that was never ever a thing here)

Are you baiting or new? That shit has been getting stirred up here regularly for years.

>>5748380
>There's a lot more to it than code on a hard drive

What else is there? Does the medium for the software really matter if its a 1:1 copy?

>>5748454
>collectorfag
Objectively wrong
>anti-crt-fag
Objectively wrong.
>anti-preservationsist
You guessed it, objectively wrong.

>>5748490
yes. the smell and the feel of the hardware can be just as important as how the game plays. without that, it has, dare i say, no soul.

>>5748474
>>5748454
You can let the conflict get to you or you can just see it as kids flinging shit and ignore or mock them. I mostly ignore these threads but when I do read them it's to revel in how irate people get over something so silly to me.

>>5748492
are you denying that those pointless debates are plaguing the board?

there's also the anti-europe threads, which seem to have blown up in the last month.

>>5748496
There are probably people who genuinely think this too.

>>5748496
How can you smell the hardware over your own rancid BO and stale urine?

>>5748508
a cretin like you would never understand the ritual involved in playing games as they were meant to be played. it's very much like shaving with a double edged razor, a zen-like experience that can even feel spiritual at times. the scent of the paper as you ruffle through a manual, the print isn't important as you've memorized it in its entirety decades ago, but the pictures give you flashes of your childhood.

there is nothing in the world like the experience this offers.

>>5748541
You sound like you wear human skin.

>>5748541
This is why nostalgia was seen as a mental disorder.

The only thing that pisses me off is "VGA graded" preservation.
Wrapping a NES game in plastic might preserve the box, but it does nothing to stop the cartridge from rotting inside
So why sell it for 30x it's normal cost? What is the appeal? Either they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to preservation or they know exactly what they're doing and give 0 fucks that the carts are rotting out

>>5748567
Isn't cart rot caused by moisture? So sealing it (if well done) would preserve them? I will say this, seeing my SCD Lunar 2 disk get rot was one of the reasons I sold most of what I had left.

>>5748490
I was an emulation fag for a long time; it makes a huge difference. There are obvious things like consistent input latency and real time audio latency, and there are less obvious things like the psychological effect of owning and playing a real cart or disc with original artwork.

I don't care about food but I know that there's a good reason that the best chefs are particular about the way their dishes are presented and even the aesthetics of their restaurants. Eating is partially psychological and they know that presentation and context affect taste. Games are the same way. ROMs on hard drives is only partial preservation at best.

Once possible reason is that it's natural for things to disintegrate and fall apart. That it's a waste of time to spend looking into the past and pretending like we can understand it.

I don't agree with that, but it seems a possible reason.

>>5748661
>There are obvious things like consistent input latency and real time audio latency
You can get input lag lower than original hardware with retroarch.

>>5748754
That's nice. Learn to read.

>>5748767
That's the only thing real that you posted. The rest is you justifying your obsession with intangible things.

>>5748773
Consistent input latency. That under particular circumstances, when you're able to remove baked-in latency in games that have > 3 frames of often designed animation latency, to overcome inherently laggy PC/Pi/Android hardware and a laggy software layer, has nothing to do with latency consistency.

And everything I said is real, Spock. The experience of playing games is almost entirely psychological. Does that intangibility mean that the experience of playing a game isn't real? Why have music or non-utilitarian art in games? They're only there to produce an intangible psychological effect.

>>5748541
Unironically BASED and CRINGE at the same time. BASED because truth, CRINGE because sounds like reddit is leaking.

>>5748803
I was just shitposting. I don't think people like that actually exist.

>>5748496
>>5748541
But the batteries aren't the same type that corporate put in them. They have different brand names, thus they will never be the original cartridge ever again and have no soul.

>>5750814
You're the video games equivalent of insecure leftists who argue against the virtues of white ethno states because it's impossible to ensure 100% racial purity.

>>5748409
If shitty movies, music, paintings are considered art, then games can be considered art too.

This retard is saying is games arent art, when its full of art, the soundtrack the graphics...

>>5750829
>This retard is saying is games arent art, when its full of art, the soundtrack the graphics...
It really is one of the dumbest general video game-related opinions.

>>5750848
Yeah, by their logic nothing is art.

>>5750829
Serious question: Why would you want games to be considered 'art'?

>>5750825
>because it's impossible to ensure 100% racial purity.
Imagine if ol Adolf had 23 and me.

>>5748596
For retail carts, I guess whatever capacitors are on it could fail and backup batteries can certainly leak. EPROMs are the primary concern, but those aren't particularly common in official retail carts, but are the standard storage method for many cartridge-based prototype cartridges. EPROMs aren't rated for infinite storage length, and eventually will lose their data. That being said, they can hold their data for a long time, and if the data has been backed up, they can be readily re-written and kept functioning for another several decades -- if they're encased in a sealed tomb, however, that obviously can't be done. A method was apparently found for safely opening VGA tombs, not sure about WATA tombs which seems to be the new rating company.

>>5750850
What I want has nothing to do with it.

>>5750874
Of course it does. We're talking about hot opinions.

>>5750850
I could see an argument that having them accepted as art would potentially increase funding for genuine preservation efforts.

waiting for the day anon breaks into the abandoned hudson soft factory and discovers a treasure trove of worthless damaged untouched vidya

>>5750878
Art is art... Is music art? Are the visuals art? Does it take talent and skill to create those things? Maybe its low quality, but its still art.

>>5750879
>>5750883
A deranged woman opening a can of spaghetti-o's, stuffing a handful into her cunt, and then letting them splatter all over the floor to cheers and applause from a crowd of onlookers is art.

This is a video game.

>>5750882
>damaged untouched

What?

>>5750884
It doesnt take talent to stuff your snatch full of spaghettios. It takes talent to make a video game. I guess you can look at a game as its own thing, with lots of art in it. I wouldnt argue with that.

>>5750887
look at the floor, then the windows, then let the word 'abandoned' set in

>>5750883
Art does not denote quality it's simply a description. Poorly done art is still art.

>>5750884
There's nothing stopping video games from being a medium for art. Not all video games are art, but neither are all drawings.

>>5750890
Talent plays no part in whether or not a creation is art.

>>5750893
Youre saying exactly the same thing I said. Thanks though.

>>5750895
Well if covering your junk with food is art, then games are definitely art, and Im still right.

>>5750901
You observe art, and it ends there. You interact with video games.

>>5750903
Untrue. Interactive art is totally a thing.

>>5750901
kojima says your precious vidya is not art and he makes them
the end

>don't mind me dude, I'm just preserving your wallet

>>5750918
Where is this gimmicky interactive 'art'?

>>5750942
Interactive art is an entire genre. Sorry I don't have the time to give you lessons, but google exists if you're genuinely curious and not just baiting to stir the pot.

t."artist"

>>5750946
>walking in front of a light is the same as video games
Uh...
>t."artist"
Heh, okay.

>>5750957
Pretending to be extra stupid doesn't help you a ton. And yes, it's how I make my living, hence why it's always so painful to watch people like you spout gobbledygook on a subject you don't even know anything about.

>>5750970
Explain why videogames are "art" outside of the most general terms that hold it in the same esteem with a uterine lining strewn across a piece of paper.

>>5750983
It's been explained by others in this thread. If you don't understand yet, what incentive do I have to try and teach you? Your ignoance isn't any problem of mine.

>>5750991
You certainly dodge questions like a liberal, I'll give you that much.

>>5750996
I simply don't think you're being genuine in your intetest so bending over backwards to explain what art is to a troll that has no intention of trying to learn doesn't seem like a good use of my time.

This is decent >>5750893 almost anything can be a medium for art, video games are no different.

>>5751007
That post specifically says that not all video games or drawings are art. What does that even mean in the context of modern art?

>>5750890
Required talent has nothing to do with it. The observer decides himself based on seeing the piece. Would it be impossible to decide whether something is or isn't art if the talent required to produce it were hidden from you?

>>5750936
He says that because he's a typical Japanese pussy who's terrified of tooting his own horn in public.

>>5751018
Yeah a drawing can be art, but a technical drawing for building a cabinet wouldn't. A video game can just be a game but it's also possible to use games as a medium for art. Modern art is no different. Is any of this confusing?

>>5751027
So the left, which is a technical drawing of a building, is not art. But this crucifix in a tub of piss is considered one of the 100 most influential pieces of art of all time.

I don't get it.

>>5751053
Art is about intent, meaning and message. A technical drawing, no matter how intricate that is done for construction purposes isn't "art" in that sense. Though that same drawing either done for different reasons, or in another context could be art. The important take away though is that although the technical skill and work involved contribute to how "good" the piece is overall they're not factors in what type of piece it is (ie techincal drawing or artistic drawing). For example, a quick 10 second impressionistic sketch of that castle trying to capture it in a certain light would be art even if it was really shitty.

As for Pissed Christ, the medium for the piece is piss and a plastic figure. It's not meant to be aesthetically pleasing or to exibit a technical skill, it's the artist's commentary on what he thinks we as a culture have done to religion. You may not like it or think it's good (I don't particularly) but it doesn't make it any less "art".

The same as with video games. Take whatever game you think is overrated and crappy, it might be shitty but that doesn't make it not a video game. Just makes it a shitty one. Art like everything else is at least 90% shitty to super duper shitty, but that's just the way it is.

I do hope this wasn't a waste.

>>5751053
Ohh yeah and I forgot to mention, Pissed Christ though it's well known is also hated by a huge number of people in and out if the art community. It's hardly tye hive mind that it sometimes gets labeled as here.

People who argue whether games "are art" confuse "art" with "high art". Games are rarely high art but of course they are always just art.

>>5751123
>Though that same drawing either done for different reasons, or in another context could be art
That's where you immediately lose me. It sounds like you're saying that if the creator says "this is art", regardless of what they do, it is then considered art.
>it's the artist's commentary on what he thinks we as a culture have done to religion
That's the same justification we got with Interior Semiotics, but I still don't see how spaghetti-o's dripping out of some whore's cunt is art simply because she says it is.
>The same as with video games. Take whatever game you think is overrated and crappy, it might be shitty but that doesn't make it not a video game. Just makes it a shitty one
I agree, but a video game is a quantifiable thing. There is no ambiguity there.
>I do hope this wasn't a waste.
We're all wasting time here.

/v/-tier thread

>>5751141
Art is anything with the primary purpose of conveying emotions for pleasure unless it has a more prominent other use. For example, no matter how artistic your cellphone is, it's primarily a tool rather than a work of art even if artists worked on it. Most video games only exist to convey emotions for pleasure, so they are precisely art.

>It sounds like you're saying that if the creator says "this is art", regardless of what they do, it is then considered art.
It depends on the viewer, not author. If YOU use something for its aesthetics (conveying emotions for pleasure) first and foremost, then, for you, it's art. You can not know what an object is but see it as a sculpture, for example--then, for you, it is art.
>I still don't see how spaghetti-o's dripping out of some whore's cunt is art simply because she says it is
It has no other purpose than conveying emotions, so it's art by exclusion. It's art because it can't be anything else. Whether it's good, valuable, effective etc. art is a separate matter.

Rule of thumb:
1. Conveys emotions.
2. Doesn't have a more prominent primary purpose for you specifically.
= is art for you.
3. Generates pleasure = good art. Fails to generate pleasure = bad art. Obviously subjective.

>>5751141
>That's where you immediately lose me. It sounds like you're saying that if the creator says "this is art", regardless of what they do, it is then considered art.

That pretty much is the case. You just need to get over your preconception that art=good. So that when someone says they did something as art but you think it's lazy or shitty, you get confused thinking that means it then can't be art. Art is simply a description of the type of thing a certain creation is trying to be.

A drawing of a castle as plans for how to build a castle and a drawing of a castle as a commentary on how power oppresses the weak are both drawings, but one is art and the other is not irregardless of the quality of either. At it's heart yes, "art" means whether the creator intended it to be "art" of not. Whether it is "good" ir "successful" art is how it's received and comes across to people experiencing it. But even if everyone hates it, it's no less art. Just bad.

>>5748479
No shit.

When you get two people who hold opposing opinions, and are willing to go to the mat for those opinions, conflict is gonna happen. Doesn't matter if it's here, Reddit, NeoGAF, etc.

Conflict and infighting is part of EVERY internet culture. Always will be.

>>5748363
me :
3. Don't care about any of this autism and just download the fucking rom

>>5751241
>That pretty much is the case
I think if you stretch the definition that thin that it ceases to have any meaning.

>>5748409
>t. >>>/v/ tourist

>>5752089
It's not a thin deffinition it's a quite specific one. At any rate, you're not required to like it, just try to understand it.