/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5142339
If MAME is at 0.203 by now and can't play the shmups by Cave then who the fuck cares

>>5142359
You can play all /vr/-legal Cave games, from DonPachi to Espgaluda perfectly fine on MAME and it's been like this for years.
Emulation for later ones is still iffy due to the slowdown feature as we all know, but still, those games aren't legal in this board.
Also, the playable on MAME ones are generally better regarded.

>>5142339
You forgot to mention the Namco System 22 improvements that supposedly make Time Crisis and Tokyo Wars completely playable now. I don't know why people say MAME development is dead. Did they miss California Speed and San Francisco Rush The Rock becoming playable recently?

>>5142369
>I don't know why people say MAME development is dead.
Indeed, for people like me that check every month it's quite obvious they're slowly making progress. 0.199 saw the fix to Omega Fighter which is a relatively important shmup as it's an early one more focused on scoring systems, and also a quite fun and unique one.

I could have mentioned that but since I haven't tested it (I don't have a Light Gun for MAME so I don't play those even if they can be fun) I wasn't sure. I have tested the QSound thing and it's an improvement though. In any case I assumed those interested would have checked the full list of changes.

Just in case, it's here:
https://www.mamedev.org/releases/whatsnew_0203.txt

>>5142379
What was fixed with Omega Fighter? I don't recall anything being broken with it, but it's not like I ever played the original for reference.

>>5142397
Enemy fire rate was wrong (some types of enemies not fiting) which made the game easier than it was supposed to be.
Yeah, it wasn't unplayable to the point you wouldn't notice it without reference to the original but it was inaccurate.
The game is actually quite tough, for both loops it's one of the hardest ever and the first isn't free at all either. No continue feature at all so just like Gradius no way to credit feed.

>>5142397
IIRC, some enemies would fail to shoot, the fix supposedly makes them shoot like they were supposed to.

>>5142406
firing*

>>5142339
Does QSound improvement means they fixed two bugs, or does it mean they finally added the qsound dsp emulation that has been missing since forever, despite having its internal rom decoded for years?

>>5142369
>>5142379
People say MAME development is dead because the maintainers of it are entitled cunts. Take the QSound thing for example. It was mentioned decades ago that MAME is missing that, and the mamedev said it is because the chip uses an internal rom, which cannot be dumped, and without which it is impossible to get it working. Then the chip got decapped and the rom got read out. That was like five years ago. It took until now to have them look into it and hook it up properly.

They bitch and bitch and bitch that they can't add something because some info is not dumped or hoarded or whatever, and that this info really should be shared with them because they are the mother fucking MAME DEV TEAM. Then when they get that info, they don't do fuck all with it.
I could even mention Saturn progress - they kept moaning that they can't make any progress because the SH1 BIOS was hoarded by the one guy who dumped it. This was the default go-to argument for anyone who made the mistake of bringing up Saturn or STV. Despite STV not even using that thing!
And now that the SH1 BIOS is dumped, have they made any progress at all? Nope.

The last time MAME had significant development was when Aaron made his donation drive where he'd donate money to the dumping team for every MAME bug fixed. Suddenly, hundreds if not thousands of bugs got fixed in like a week.

>>5142413
I'm not sure about the details, check here >>5142379
I've tested it and it's improved but I say there's still room for improvement.

And oh yeah mamedevs are a bit dumb but it's what we have. Sengoku Blade saw a crippling regression making it nigh unplayable in MAME 0.197 and it wasn't fixed until 0.202.
I'm a bit sad about the ST-V emulation since I like Terra Diver a lot but it still has graphical issues making it annoying to play (ie in stage 3)

>>5142406
>>5142408
huh, I'll have to check that out. I liked Omega Fighter a lot, so it'll be fun to see how much tougher the "real" version is.

>>5142439
According to the STG Difficulty Wiki, a loop is around Thunder Dragon 2, Raiden II or Gradius III, and both loops are around Ketsui Ura.
I've played the first loop since it was fixed and shit gets intense. I got quite lucky with the slowdown bomb spawns.

>>5142369
The Rock is playable past the car select now?

>>5142413
You are seriously calling them entitled for providing you with a free emulator, then saying it's dead because they aren't improving it fast enough for you?

>>5142452
Yep, you can race on Alcatraz again.

>>5142369
>Time Crisis and Tokyo Wars completely playable now.
They fixed the fucking Helicopter glitch? Thank god.

>>5142339
What are the best shmup-like arcade games that have randomness in them? Like Asteroids opposed to say Gradius.

>>5142546
I guess you mean ones that don't reward memorization, because most shmups have some degree of RNG to them (Ikaruga is a notable exception)
Check twin-stick shooters like the ones made by Eugene Jarvis.

>>5142458
No, I call them entitled because they expect to be given everything instead of doing research & work of their own. You bring up a bug in the Neogeo MVS core? You are a rom kiddie who only cares about fighting games. You mention that support for a system is bad, that has other emulators that work better? It's because that other emulators author is hoarding precious information. Someone dumps something that mame devs can't figure out how? They should immediately make it public and give it to the mame devs, instead of telling them how they could dump it themselves - since mamedevs already worked on so much, they can't be arsed to work on something more that some other guy already did, it's that other guy who should release his stuff.

These are all actual responses I've seen the mame devs make. And even among themselves, they bitch and moan endlessly. One guy started doing dumps of obscure revisions and then he was accused of wasting money from the dumping project on meaningless shit. They also had many people getting screwed out of their hosting (I can't even keep up with how many times Guru moved his site).

Most of the mame devs are infighting assholes full with ego. There are a bunch of cool people improving MAME though, and it's a shame that they get dragged through the mud simply due to association.

>>5142570
>You bring up a bug in the Neogeo MVS core? You are a rom kiddie who only cares about fighting games.
This I gotta see, can you give me a link? Not getting jack when googling mame neo geo mvs bug.

>>5142557
Yeah probably. I do like twin stick shooters. What sorts of rng do typical shmups have? Are there any that generate somewhat random enemy waves?

>>5142803
Examples:
RNG in the bullet patterns (for instance, DoDonPachi's first midboss always shoots somewhat differently, so even though it's very easy you still have to react, if you want to keep the chain it becomes a bit tricky), this is more common in bullet hells. In older style of shooters they come in the form of suicide bullets in further loops (seen in Gradius and Psikyo games), they're random but usually if you point blank they don't spawn (technique called sealing)
RNG in what pattern the enemy will do (usually a boss deciding whether to do a pattern or another, Battle Garegga's second boss is quite an obvious example)
Randomized stage order with different versions of each level depending on what order it appeared in (trademark of the first half of Psikyo's games)
RNG in some power up drops or when dying (Raiden recovery, Omega Fighter with the slow down bombs)
RNG in scoring elements (birds in Battle Garegga giving you different score, or having to react to different possibilites related to what was previously mentioned)
And maybe some more instances of light RNG. You will seldom if at all see pure RNG in these since the games are meant to be learned and their fun lies in your execution. Your best hope is to check out games from the late 70's and early 80's.

Isn't Model 2 hardware completely playable on Mame by now? Will Naomi ever make any progress or is Demul the only way?

>>5142983
Naomi is technically playable AFAIK just that due to how MAME renders the requirements are fucking insane.

>>5143010
That makes sense. I'd love for them to work on Midway's Vegas hardware, NBA Showtime is one of the few good sports games.

>>5142359
What's bigger bullshit is that you can't play the Naomi or Atomiswave games.

>>5143161
---THE TIME
-------OF
RETRIBUTION

--BATTLE 1

---DECIDE
-----THE
--DESTINY

What’s the best Atari shooter and why is it Tempest?

>>5143189
Check out Typhoon 2001 if you haven't. Good stuff.

>>5143189
I love Tempest 2000. Such a fun shooter. Music is kickass too.

>>5142803
>>5142824
Not sure if you're memeing but, for most of them it's just a matter of picking something up from a predetermined set of possibilities.

What I'm saying is, even with RNG into the game you just have to know what to expect and memorize the responses to each potential move/group/enemy. See: Roguelikes.

>>5145085
Can't you say this about anything with luck elements?

MAME 0.203 has model 1 sound fixed too. But they still havent fixed the graphic glitches on virtua fighter 1. Those have been there since vf was added.

>>5142369
California Speed has been playable for a long time, you just need a really fast cpu.

>>5142619
Look around the mameworld forums, either the news section or emuchat.

for some reason i cant run any 3d arcade games at all. maybe my computer is shit.

>>5145338
Try Bloody Roar 1 or 2 perhaps?

>>5145105
Why don't you go and fix them, whiner?

>>5145549
He's just stating facts, no whining; chill.

>>5145549
I'm not that poster, but IIRC a chip that handles the physics was either not dumped or was poorly dumped. That's why the game has issues with things like hair and cloth and character physics in general. Either someone would have to donate the chip from their board for dumping (probably not going to happen if it hasn't) or do what that guy who was trying to fix Star Wars Arcade a couple years back.

>>5145556
Yeah, sure. Let's ignore the fact that whenever MAME comes up here some entitled fuck is always whining and cursing the devs about how their favorite game doesn't emulate well.

>>5145562
Maybe but the guy you replied to wasn't so relax. You can't just jump at merely informative posts like that, it's needless confrontation.

>>5145105
MAME has NEVER been a good option for 3d games as its entirely processor heavy and doesn't utilize gpus.

why are you using mame for virtua fighter when the model2 emu exists and virtua fighter 2 which is better in everyway?

>>5145268
So you say they did these things, but you can only tell me to go forum digging for the proof? I got an uncle who works at Nintendo too!

>>5142570
> since mamedevs already worked on so much, they can't be arsed to work on something more that some other guy already did, it's that other guy who should release his stuff.
thats bullshit. certain emulators have stalled because there just isn't enough people to fix them all and they're lacking in people that have the technical expertise regarding certain hardware to do so. the only way mame will improve is by contributions, not crying on 4chan.
>Someone dumps something that mame devs can't figure out how? They should immediately make it public and give it to the mame devs
this already happens. have you seen the amount of roms in a current mame download? shitloads of roms in that whos hardware isn't even emulated yet or done incredibly poorly.

>>5145562
>Yeah, sure. Let's ignore the fact that whenever MAME comes up here some entitled fuck is always whining and cursing the devs about how their favorite game doesn't emulate well.
every single time.. what's worse is that these dimwits that have no idea about emulation at all or the effort it takes to get a system working.

>>5145993
That was the only place I could think of that recently had any drama between the devs. Haze was banned there a few months ago after a little argument between him a smitdogg about the quality of a rom dump, but that wan't permanent for whatever reason:

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=376392&page=9&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Just got 0.203 and threw all System 22 games into it's rom folder. I can confirm Tokyo Wars is now 100% playable. It's just as simple and oddly fun as I remember, if easier than I remember. Still need to fuck around with dip switches and service mode though.

>>5147032
Perhaps you played it with the mouse? I feel dumb for saying this, but that's way easier than with a light gun.

>>5148478
Tokyo Wars was never a light gun game. You drive tanks around.

>>5148657
I was thinking of Time Crisis for some reason, nevermind.

>>5146234
fucking mame devs theres always drama between them, i love mame but it's continual proof that low test beta male dorks are exactly like women when forced to work together.

>>5143161
AGAIN mame doesn't utilize gpu and fucking decent stand alones exist for naomi and atmoiswave, Christ you fucks are impossible.

>>5142570
this is completely true just to back it up, guru is a complete fucking dildo. the problem is they crave power because their lives are shit so you get ppl like guru believing he's the only one who can dump roms or decap chips etc so aimlessly stalls and acts like a nob to feed his ego.

>>5142539
Supposedly it's because the M68000 CPU had an emulation issue processing instructions related to helicopter (Time Crisis)/tank (Tokyo Wars) hitboxes.

>>5145697
They're planning to do Vulkan support for GPU utilization I heard. Also work on Nebula's Model 2 emu have long stopped.

>>5149462
Smit kicked his website off for that reason... then turned out Guru had other issues too.

Hey guys, what's the best way to set up Mame?
I just want to play the original Donkey Kong.

>>5149637
Do you understand you need your roms to match your version of MAME? If you don't understand that, you will never get a game to work in MAME.

>>5149637
Get mame from mamedev and the merged romset from pleasuredome and put the roms in the mame folder and run mame64.exe

>>5143189
black widow now THAT was a game...

>>5142983
Is it really? I legitimately thought MAME was still 2D only stuff.

>>5150069
Many 3D games run just fine under MAME. There can be graphical glitches in some, and a few are almost garbled, but many work great. San Francisco Rush and SF Rush The Rock, NFL Blitz and NFL Blitz 2001, Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy, Tekken, Tekken 2, Tekken Tag Tournament, every System 22 game(Time Crisis, Cyber Cycles, Prop Cycle, Ridge Racer 1 and 2, etc) except Alpine Surfer, all work very well. There's a ton I'm probably missing as well.

>>5150120
Raizing's Bloody Roar games and Brave Blade. G-Darius. Some ST-V games work OK too.

>>5145098
Depends on how much luck is required and how much of an impact does it make if you get unlucky.

I have my arcade cabinet and J-PAC, and am now sorting out the PC components and could use some feedback.

I am only with familiar with MAME up to around 2003, and that was only on PC back using a basic text based interface for it. I'm totally in the dark on other newer arcade emulators, 5th/6th gen console emulation, and even these newer launchbox/hyperspin interfaces. No idea what modern requirements are.

Spare parts I have lying around from old PCs:
>Core 2 Duo E6400 and old motherboard/ram for it (2.2ghz, I know I overclocked it up to low 3ghz range in the past, but cant remember)
>old ATI video card, I cannot even remember what series it is, but at least 10 years old
>old 1tb hard drive
>450w supply
>xp and goign to run CRT emudriver for that card if it is from the right era, or just buy a new old card

That should be more than enough for MAME, as that is more than I had when I originally fucked around with MAME back in 2003, but do any of the other modern emulators need that much more CPU power? I hear people talking about getting slightly newer I3 based PCs for their more modern arcade emulators.

>>5150132
>G-Darius works okay too
Not as much as it used to because of updates to the sound hardware emulation.

>>5150845
You can get an earlier version of MAME easily anyway.

>Somewhere to discuss shmups that isn't full of conspiracy theory delusional hypocrites
Finally.
I liked arcades, but in my country and where I lived there never really was a massive boom, they were always just kind of there and died out. I wish I could go to America or Japan and see a proper arcade

>>5151210
Canada loves you beaners because you're guaranteed leftwing votes, work long for low money, easy to manipulate, always consuming stuff because low i.q, hate self responsibility and discipline, the government loves you.

dumb beaner.

Shit boys the /shmupg/ faggots are here

>>5151251
This might come as a shock to you but I, the OP, am a regular from there and this thread has been doing fine for days before you showed up. Take your whining shit elsewhere.

>>5151254
Fuck off back to that shithole then

>>5151210
lol at your life NLIJEOP

>/vr/ deleting things they don't like
Oh no, /shmupg/ was right about you faggots

>>5151160
I hate how some newer versions of MAME have problems with games that used to run fine. Who the fuck is even on the MAME team and what are they even doing that they can't get their shit to run consistently?

>>5152218
Regressions are a thing yeah, unfortunately. Read here: >>5142428
They tamper with some drivers to fix things but may unintentionally fuck up a game.

>>5142413
I'm still fucking mad at what they did to Q*Bert and Gorf. Their Votrax emulation sounds like shit.
Gorf is somewhat tolerable since it doesn't do anything crazy, but Q*Bert's sound effects now cause ear cancer.
You just listen to the snake fall off the level to get the absolute worst of it.
They've done fuck-all to either give people the choice to compile with the old sample support, or to unfuck Votrax emulation.
Who's ass do I have to fuck to get someone to take steps towards fixing that?

>>5142983
the stand alones will always be superior by far.

>>5143161
better in stand alones also.

>>5150120
>Many 3D games run just fine under MAME.
basically anything ps1 era and previous is ok because processor can deal with it.

>>5149637
download mame, download rom, set controls the end.

>>5149480
>Also work on Nebula's Model 2 emu have long stopped.
because its already really good.

>>5150132
>Some ST-V games work OK too
all st-v games have atrocious lag going up to over 7-8 frames in some instances (guardian force)

>>5142339
>MAME 0.203 has improved QSound emulation
That great, but which games/ROMS actually work with it, or did MAME devs never bothered to test that as usual?

>>5152837
I tested Mars Matrix myself and it has indeed improved.

>>5152837
>That great, but which games/ROMS actually work with it,

sign up for free to retroroms as it always updates to the latest romsets with every mame release so it'll always work.

>>5153095
Fuck retroroms to death, pleasuredome is were its at

>>5142339
Why would you need to 1CC when you can just flick pennies?

>>5154547
To proove to yourself what a grandiose human being you are. Of course.

>>5145085
Are you retarded? He gave you a comprehensive list of randomization events happening in classic shmups and you say he's probable "memeing"? What a fucking imbecile.
>for most of them it's just a matter of picking something up from a predetermined set of possibilities
And what "rng" do you fucking expect in a video game? It's necessarily a random pick out of a number of playable options. In fact, due to how computers work, even the numbers themselves can't even be truly random. Seriously, are you stupid or something?

>>5154547
Why would you want to throw the ball into some arbitrary hoop when you can just toy with it on the ground?

>>5154547
If you're such a drooling mong that playing with what's effectively god mode is fun then go right ahead, for someone who isn't braindead 1cc's and learning games is fun though

>>5154563
I made that list but I'm used to crap like this here, don't give it much attention.

>>5154567
>>5154570
Fell for the bait mate.

>>5154576
>Fell for the bait mate.
It's not bait. Those posters are genuine and genuinely ignorant. Source: I used to honestly post shit exactly like this when I migrated to /v/ from /b/ around 2006 or so.

>>5142369
>You forgot to mention the Namco System 22 improvements that supposedly make Time Crisis and Tokyo Wars completely playable now
There's also been a lot of work fixing up other outstanding bugs on System 22, graphics glitches like the missing Ridge Racer title flag are now fixed. Even better Happ has fixed a few more even since the latest release.
>>5145559
>I'm not that poster, but IIRC a chip that handles the physics was either not dumped or was poorly dumped. That's why the game has issues with things like hair and cloth and character physics in general. Either someone would have to donate the chip from their board for dumping (probably not going to happen if it hasn't) or do what that guy who was trying to fix Star Wars Arcade a couple years back.
It was the internal program Rom for the TGP graphics chipset. My understanding is it was all an approximate simulation as the chips had no way to be dumped and was basically written off. The simulation got pretty good, but around this time they finally managed to get some of the original chips decapped and could read out the ROMs. However this now introduced some new bugs as they finally had the real code compared to how they essentially guessed it worked. Also some games still don't have the TGP program ROM dumped (like Virtual Fighter) so still use the old HLE approximation.

>>5154375
what a fucking dipshit but suit yourself, like i fucking said retroroms is the most up to date source, get cunted.

asdasd

>>5154579
>im retarded so everyone else must be
>maybe if i pretend to be oldfag anyone will believe me
this better be bait