/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4814615
2/10 bait.

>>4814617
GO AND FUCK YOURSELF!
The other reason it's a broken mechanic is it completely violates the rules the game has set out to the player up to that point. From the very first time you take the elevator down into Brinstar and get the Morph Ball, the game makes a deal with you: "When you get stuck, use the items/abilities we've given you, if you still can't progress go find another way". That's pretty much how the whole game operates and it's what makes all the back tracking rewarding rather than frustrating. Can't get through the pink doors? Come back when you have missiles. Can't get back out of Norfair? Get the freeze beam. The entire game works on this premise that if you can't progress with the items you have, that is an indication that means you're going the wrong way.

Then you get to that stupid pit and the game completely breaks it's promise, because now all of a sudden you have to use a move you didn't even know you had and have no way of learning how to properly execute without external help like a friend or Nintendo Power. The game even knows its bullshit too because they put those cute little animals there, but unlike the boost jumping the timing of the move is really difficult to pull off (and, of course, there is NO a priori reason to think you should have to be spinning to do it, that part is pure trial and error). Based off of everything you've been taught so far, it's perfectly reasonable that you would get to that part and think you have to explore some other direction, that there must be some hidden bombable wall or something that you're missing. Again based off of everything you've been taught you would not ever think that maybe there's some glitchy move that you have to use here and only here ever again.

>>4814621
git gud, stop making assumptions, other people do whatever they want and you are entitled to nothing

>>4814621
It hurts me that this is a veiled commentary on some social pass you want but can't find it in the menu select screen of your mind to directly ask.

>>4814615
you don't know how to play. also baitolomeus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHw9I15HVrU

it's a shame it's a split-screen with the fag's camera...

>>4814651
It's also a shame you perceive that as relevant to the any subject ever.

>>4814615
I did it very easily and consistently as a child. Ever considered that you're just bad at video games?

>and there's no feedback in the game to tell you what you're doing wrong
There is, though. Watch Samus' animation. It literally shows you the window for pressing the jump button.
>press two buttons simultaneously
There's your problem. You're not supposed to be pressing them simultaneously. You're coming into the game with preconceived notions about how walljumping works in modern games rather than letting the game teach you.

It's not hard at all. Just press away from the wall during a spin jump until you see this frame of animation, then press jump. Most people try to do it too quickly, and keep messing up.

This is probably just a bait topic, though.

>>4814615
try with runahead enabled :-)

>>4814615
I hate your generation just so you know.

>>4814621
They have little alien creatures in the background show you how to do it. They do it again with the shinespark.

>>4814684
>literally impossible to crawl
And just nostalgiafags will defend this game and its artificial difficulty

>>4814615
we live in the modern age, where you can just look up a simple youtube video. yes the tutorial sucks but you just need to watch for the "wall grab animation frame"

watch a youtube video, stop complaining

>>4814684
There's stupids in every generation. My dad's friend took ten minutes to get out of the first room in Halo.

>>4814684
I almost punched my monitor in rage after looking at that picture for 3 seconds.

I rented the game as a kid and got stuck at that part. I ended up starting my file over because you can just skip that part anyway.

If anything is broken I'd say it's the final boss fight. It's way too easy and it ends up making the collectables feel like a waste of time instead of something that really helps you finish the game. Just get some of the energy tanks and you're pretty much set.

>>4814738
>getting angry about toys

>>4814615
Not these threads again.
Oh well, dead giveaway that it's officially summer.

>>4814743
>having extremely limited reading comprehension

Seems like you must have been one of those faggots in the picture since you’re too dumb to realize that the direction of my anger was not at a video game but at retards.

>>4814752
Okay, sweetie :-)

>>4814684
And everyone makes fun of people from the US for being stupid when it’s really South American shitskins that are the real problem.

>>4814671
Simply not true at all, and certainly not true of Super Metroid. EVERY single other item or move in the game is very carefully taught to the player through the level design. The whole reason that one part stands out is because of how well the game teaches you all the other mechanics along the way.
the way the levels are set up force you to use your new moves right after you acquire them, cementing in your brain what they do. And the rest of the non-combat parts of Super Metroid is comparatively low skill, executing a high jump or a charge shot or a morph ball bomb or a dash run requires almost no skill at all. There is no difficult platforming, nothing that requires any real timing, the only move that's actually difficult to execute AND required to advance (ie: bomb jumping is difficult but only required for sequence breaking) is the wall jump in that pit.

>>4814687
You definitely know it's a mechanic, but knowing you have to spin, have to press two buttons, and have to do it at the exact right time is not obvious. You know there's probably a way to do it, but it's not well taught.

Compare to the entire rest of the game, which is brilliant at teaching you moves. You get the morph ball, and you have to use it to get out of that little area. When you get the ice beam, I think there's those little green jumpy dudes that you shoot and learn the ice beam freezes things. You get the high jump boots and you can only escape by jumping high, etc. Even the boost jump, which is taught through the animals too, is well done because you clearly see it run, duck, and jump, all moves you have in your arsenal.

They definitely TRY to teach you the wall jump with the animal dudes, but it's poorly done. There's nothing that says "flip then press away and jump at the exact second you see this one frame of animation", and when you fail you don't know if you failed because you timed it wrong, you pressed the wrong buttons, or maybe something else. Maybe it only works if you're at the top of your arc. Maybe you have to press towards the wall not away. Maybe you have to have your blaster charged for it to work. Maybe you just press jump, or maybe you don't press jump at all. You can experiment with all these things, but it turns out it's just timing-based which is not obvious, especially considering the rest of the game is pretty low skill and doesn't require much careful timing at all.

>>4814731
this video help me a bit! but i still can go ouf of the pit!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw_AULavpQU

>>4814769
>There's nothing that says "flip then press away and jump at the exact second you see this one frame of animation"
Are you so autistic that you need everything literally spelled out for you in text on the screen? If you watch the animals, the game tells you to spin jump and look for the change in animation. If you can't figure out what to do from there you might actually be retarded, because a literal child can figure it out and pull it off sweat. I know because I and many others did. You're just not paying attention to the lesson the game is very explicitly giving to you.

>>4814787
*no sweat

barrel

>>4814765
Walljumping is in no way difficult to execute.

>>4814801
It can be with current displays and official emulation products totaling a fifth of a second of lag.

>>4814808
Shitty d-pads on modern USB controllers is an issue, too. Use the original intended hardware and you won't have any problems.

>>4814801
This walljump looks too fast.

>>4814834
RetroArch's runahead feature works for me :-)

>>4814849
You can walljump a lot faster than that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4S7s-zc3SQ&t=253

>>4814808
No excuse. Go play Redesign and stop whining how hard the wall jumps are on the original SM.

>>4814890
I just play on fast PC monitors instead of shitty TVs. RetroArch's runahead can make my BenQ slightly faster than actual console on a cancer ray tube :-)

>>4814893
Name all the people who got cancet from a tv.

>>4814913
I got an eye injury when a PC monitor at an office flashed me upon signal loss.

>>4814893
Cancer rays can't penetrate glass tubes.

>>4814919
The beta, xray and uv leakage is nonzero. Enjoy your cataracts ;)

>>4814941
That's a choice we all have to make.
Glorious vidya, exactly as the developers intended, with some cataracts later on.
or,
No cataracts but constant knowledge that you're treading the seas of inaccurate flat panel substitutes.

>>4814975
Are you respecting Sonic Team's artistic intent and playing with composite video so transparency effects work as intended? CRTs get too much credit for stuff that doesn't involve in the tube.

>>4814975
Just play with integer scaling on a nice modern screen. It actually looks better than the blurry as fuck CRT shit. I grew up with the CRT's and don't feel like EVER getting around one again any more. They make my eyes bleed, even at 100 kHz.

>>4814615
People will give you shit but I agree.
This game has the single worst wall-jump mechanic of any game I've ever played.

>>4814994
My PC isn't powerful enough to run shaders that simulate the phosphors of a slot mask cancer ray tube :(

>>4814801
Posting speedrun bullshit is kind of disingenuous isnt it?

>>4814996
>it doesn't hold my hand and give me a multiple-second window so it sucks

>>4814998
Not really. I'm garbage, so if I can do it anyone can.

>>4814996
>the single worst wall-jump mechanic
Metroid Fusion would like to have a word with you.

But seriously, about the only thing I don't like about SM's wall-jumping is that you can't re-activate a spin jump if you accidentally press anything other than left or right on the D-pad. And even that's fixable with a patch if you're emulating.

>>4814615
The game only requires you to do one walljump, then you never have to do it again. Quit being a whiny baby.

>>4814615
You're doing the input wrong.

If I could do it with a shitass rubber domed keyboard in 2001, and godawful sperg child motorics, you, as a presumed adult with a gamepad, can do it too.

>>4814621
>When you get stuck, use the items/abilities we've given you
Like the wall jumping ability you start the game with?

>and, of course, there is NO a priori reason to think you should have to be spinning to do it, that part is pure trial and error
Where the fuck else would that momentum come from?

>>4814808
>>4814834
I do it without issue on ZSnes and with a $10 USB gamepad, and I'm just kind of mediocre at platformers.

What's your excuse?

>>4814801
Yeah, people definitely can pull it off consistently once they know how to do it, I'm not arguing against that. It's just taught to you in a really lousy way, and it's an awkward thing to make mandatory once and only once in a game that otherwise doesn't demand a lot of skill from the player.

Whether that makes it a broken mechanic or not might just be semantics. It's obviously something that's planned and intended to be in the game (unlike maybe bomb jumping, which I've never been quite sure if the developers intended people to use as creatively as they have), but it doesn't quite seem as natural as the rest of the game.

>>4815071
>znes
>2018
Are you trolling?

>>4815071
hat's not even close to true at all. There is no part of the game that is inaccessible once you get the space jump and screw attack. I'm sure you need it for any kind of speed running but the space jump does exactly what the wall jump does much much easier.

So let's say you just picked up Super Metroid for the very first time. Do you think you could figure out how to get out of that wall jump pit in a reasonable amount of time with no instructions besides the little animals? So no internet, no Nintendo Power, no strategy guide, no best friend telling you to press back and jump at a super particular time? No, you really couldn't, not unless you got lucky, there's absolutely nothing in the game that prepares you for that kind of input, you might as well attempt to shuryuken your way up the wall the way it's introduced.

For the nine millionth time, the move itself is fine, obviously people can execute it quite effectively once they learn it (I used to be pretty decent with it, I'd kinda lost touch my last playthrough) it's a nice little exploit like bomb jumping and it's a great tool for speed runs and sequence breaking, but the fact that the game puts you in a spot where the only way to get out is to master an incredibly esoteric move is bad design in an otherwise flawless game. I think I get what they were going for, that they want to player to see that this secret move exists to put them onto the possibility of sequence breaking on a second playthrough, but the fact that it can end up completely derailing the progress of the game is sloppy implementation. I don't really see how anyone can make a non-stupid argument against that. They literally drop you into a spot with no warning and the only way to get out is to use a highly technical move that has never been introduced before and will never be required again. That's bad design.

>>4815081
There were multiple strategy guides you could buy look at in store if a popular game was too hard for you :-)

>>4815081
Once again, they literally demonstrate to you exactly how it's done. It's immediately obvious how to do it because they fucking show you. Are you actually brain-damaged?

>>4815081
Even if they didn't explain it (they did; that's what the animals are there for), it's intuitively obvious what motions should be required to do a walljump. C'mon man, use your brain.

>>4815079
No, I'm just fucking lazy and can't easily be arsed to move on from functional mediocrity. Hence why I still have that el-cheapo gamepad, it's not very good, but it hasn't actually really failed me.

>>4815081
>So let's say you just picked up Super Metroid for the very first time. Do you think you could figure out how to get out of that wall jump pit in a reasonable amount of time with no instructions besides the little animals?
Yes, because I'm willing to fucking experiment with inputs and timing to see what works.

>incredibly esoteric move
God, Jesus.

>>4815101
>>4815098
>>4815093
>>4815092
yeah so easy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw_AULavpQU&t=151s

>>4815081
>>4815110
So you're telling me that my dumbass 5 year old self could figure it out just fine, but a grown man with presumably years of gaming experience can't? Seriously?

I actually just bought this and playing through it for the first time, took me over 20 years but I'm having a good time with it, I dunno what the fuck your issue is OP. You might just be incredibly incompetent

>>4814738
>I almost punched my monitor in rage after looking at that picture
How embarrassing. I think you need to talk to a therapist.

>>4814615
>It's a broken mechanic, it's insanely difficult to pull off consistently

I legitimately can't tell if this was carefully crafted bait, or genuine upset at being a terrible player. Either way it made me smile though.

Thank you Anon, I was in need of a laugh.

>>4814738
You poor baby.

To be honest, the wall jumping can be difficult to pull off on a shitty gamepad (or if you use the analogue stick for movement) or if your emulator is lagging (protip: don't use Higan on a shitty laptop).

Otherwise it's not hard at all, spin jump into a wall, see a special animation frame, press the opposite direction button + jump, rinse and repeat.

As a kid playing it the first time, I figured out exactly what to do. I just couldn't do it reliably.
So I just avoided that area.

>>4815110

>>4814615
It's really easy on a CRT without input lag, and a proper controller with a functioning d-pad.

>>4815191
It's easy without all of those things.

You have to press jump AFTER pressing the direction away from the wall. Playing Zero Mission will train you poorly.

>>4814994
I agree.
The noise was fucking annoying too, never seen a CRT screen that didn't somehow make noise like my ears were ringing.

>>4814615
Yes, the wall jump is kind of flawed.

Anyone else prefer the 2 Gameboy Advance games to Super Metroid?

Super Metroid is objectively a masterpiece, of course, but I find the GBA ones easier to go back to.

>>4815672
Me too. You might enjoy this hack, it basically makes Super play like the GBA games. Same controls and physics.

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3211/

>>4815684

Never heard of this before, despite that a quick google search would've led me to it. Thanks.

Have a cute pic of Samus and Halo anon.

>>4814621
You are supposed to learn from those aliens. Back in time we had a lot of time to spare and we broke our heads to learn it. Git gud

>>4814615
Personally I thought that section was genius. If a game can teach you mechanics without tutorials it gives you a feeling a intimacy with the game.

It's also clever they put it in an optional section. There's that fake floor in front of an etank. You are basically operating on greed picking up the extra powerups then suddenly you fall into a trap. It doesn't force you to use the save point either, you just go and save thinking its a good thing to do -- but then you realise you a trapped. The feeling of betrayal that you are talking about is intentional, they were trying to mess with your mind.

When I did this as a kid, I didn't at first realise what the etecoons were doing. I was thinking "oh shit I fucked up, I saved down here and there's no way out." But after running around in that area not knowing what to do you eventually calm down and realise that the etecoons have a way out.

It also makes the secret ending where you save the etecoons more meaningful, as they actually helped you in your game and saved you from being stuck.

>>4814615
As a child I would fall in to the trap that lead to that zone, which had a save conveniently placed in its start. Id save and get stuck. Happened three or more times. Had to delete my file and start over.

>>4814615
>>4814621

I feel like I'm reading an angry, quaint "Letter to the Editor" from someone's dad from like 30 years ago.

>>4814651
That "fag" is the world record holder and it isn't his camera.

>>4815672
There are some things I like better, but it's *really* hard to best Super Metroid.

Ladders, ledge grabbing, I love that kind of shit.

I like the boss fights in fusion

>>4815873
I like Nightmare and the brainbot, because they're bothersome bitches.

>>4815873

They're fuckin awesome. They actually out up a decent fight.

>>4815672
The opposite. The GBA games have next to no replay value, while Super Metroid is made to be replayed. The mechanics just keep getting deeper and more satisfying the better you get.

>>4815918
I've replayed Fusion a lot more than Super

it just has better action even though it sacrifices some freedom to get so tight

>>4815923
Fusion sacrifices WAY too much and feels like a step backwards as a result. Once you've beaten it once or twice, there's simply nothing there to sink your teeth into. It doesn't encourage experimentation and mastering its mechanics the way Super does, and in fact actively discourages it by removing or nerfing everything that could be used to spice up subsequent playthoughs. There are no different routes to take, the physics are too basic and lack any sense of fluidity or momentum, many of Super's interesting mechanics like item selection and beam combos are absent. Fusion has better boss fights, but it's inferior in basically every other way.

>>4815951
everything you described is bloat

>>4814752
autism

>>4815951
Fusion on Hard (in Japanese version) is the hardest Metroid game though. Really fun.

>>4815992
It's still not all that hard, though. Some of the Super Metroid challenge runs are harder, like reverse boss order.

Why in the fuck are so many threads complaining about entry level skills and disguising the salt as "muh game mechanics analysis" when it's just people getting salty at sucking? Why is this allowed?

>>4814919

this actually took me like an hour to get past, it's so unintuitive. the awkwardness of the walljump is probably the one thing i would change about the game

>>4814615
I just replayed super metroid last night and did the walljump easily to get the spring ball using a snes mini (inb4 shitstorm) with the stock controller after about 4 or 5 tries.

I'm 37 with early onset arthritis, if I can pull this shit off you totally can, work on your timing.

Tap the opposite direction then the jump button as you're ending your directional tap.

>>4816625
>press away from the wall and jump
>unintuitive
How do you people even survive your lives?

>>4816647
and start on the left jumping right, otherwise when you get to the bat-like dudes at the top you can jump between both waves of them and end to the right towards the door, if you try to go to the left at the top they hit you every time and knock you back down.

>>4816648
Meanwhile in games with good wall jump controls, you press towards the wall and jump.

>>4816665
Why would you press the opposite direction from where you want to go? THAT'S unintuitive.

>>4816648
its that you jump into the wall, hold away and then jump. in other games you can usually do them at the same time

Y'all niggas need to git gud.

>>4814664
did you watch it??
he does many amazing things with the wall jump OP said (baited) was only usable for one thing in the game.

>>4815804
I meant fags' camera, in "the camera showing all those fags in the room" (watching that pro motherfucker performing his art). I just wish I could watch that run in full screen, without the addon fags' camera.

>>4814728
>its artificial difficulty
lol! it's easy. you're weak.

>>4814615
Didn't bother to read the thread so I don't know if someone said this already.
When you jump at the wall and then push away on the dpad, there's a brief window of a few frames where Samus assumes a unique pose. She's sort of crouching against the wall, but she hasn't started spinning in the opposite direction away from the wall yet. Press jump in this window while she's in this pose and you'll wall jump every single time.
It's frustrating that the game doesn't tell you this, but once you know this trick you'll be basically 100% consistent at wall jumping.

>>4814615
5/5 bait

My favorite was "everything I can't do is luck based"

I think many of you are missing the point. Even single player games back then had more of a social experience to them. Taking turns, learning to put your heads together and actually think your way out of situations like this... Mom setting the oven timer and making you and your cousins/friends go outside after awhile. A lot of nostalgia for me really comes from the lost family values no one seems to care about anymore.

>that gay ostrich showed us how to get out of that other pit...
>Maybe these green koala's are trying to help us too...

Man it was a mindfuck when we found out we could have been wall jumping this whole game. Even my dad had a HOLY SHI- look on his face.

This section and many others like it in this game give me the exact opposite feeling, because back in the day, you had to conquer them with your own wits.

>>4814621
lol, is this nigga really this mad or bait has ascended to a whole new level?

Gitgud jesus...

>>4814615

Select button doesn't work half the time in it because Nintendo wanted people to believe their controller was broken to buy another.

>>4814615
>>4814621
>an easy game that every 8 year old in the world at the time beat effortlessly
this is the hill you chose to die on

>>4814615
>Fuck this game and his walljump broken mechanics!
What if Metroid was a girl?