/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4422291
One thing people overlook is the idea that Wizeman isn't just a random evil big bad.

Visitors are able to create Nightopia through their personality, memories, hopes, goals, and interests. It makes sense the the realm of Nightmare is Wizeman's Nightopia. Wizeman created not only a Nightopia, but an entirely different plane in the entire Night Dimension. And he can't wake up, because when you die you supposedly dream endlessly.

This is because he came without the Ideya of Courage, and has yet to find his own Ideya of Courage. After all, he sends all of his creations and dreamed-up people to get things for him. He's been stealing Ideya from other Visitors as compensation for his lack of a Red Courage Ideya, yet ironically, the Red Ideya is the only Ideya he cannot steal, nor keep.

For years he has been trying to get a Red Ideya, but has failed so often that over time he has completely forgotten what he had initially set out for. He loses himself, going crazy trying to get a Red Ideya, and leaves his waken life completely, forgetting that he is a Visitor. This causes problems for his real comatose body. While the Wizeman of the Night Dimension goes on a reign of terror and malice, the Wizeman of the Real World is still a child, doodling designs for Nightmaren and the faces of other Visitors, but only as a subconscious reflex. In fact, Wizeman has become convinced that getting a Red Ideya will wake him, forgetting that it is of his own free will that he awakens.
Whatever little boy Wizeman may have once been has been lost, leaving behind a broken child in the Real World and a heartless overlord in the Night Dimension.

Wizeman being a Visitor was confirmed in his backstory in the original who fell into the Black Sea. Dualization with a Nightmaren extends the time limit before Awaker-ghost-thingies, giant alarm clocks, and Night Over screens will force you to wake up. Falling into the Black Sea gives you an endless nightmare and a coma. Connect the dots.

>>4422298
The various objects in NiD's world also provide heavy amounts of symbolism that can be interpreted in countless ways. I've never seen any greater understanding of Jungian Dream Archetypes in fiction.

Yuji Naka: NiGHTS, a hero, originated in “Shadow” which means another side of the self as defined by Jung in his dream definitions. Elliot and Claris, who have strayed from the dream world, originated from Jung’s Animus and Anima. Persona items that appear in the Wii version originate from Jung's dream theory, too.

Yuji Naka: He is one of the psychologists who followed Jung's thoughts. He too defined dream elements as much as Jung, and showed us "another world" which we called the “Dream World.” NiGHTS also reflects the thoughts of scholars who researched these dreams.

The music also reflects familiar music to children. For example, the track "Gate of Your Dream," which plays during the character select screen, samples clips from the film Home Alone. It makes sense that the children would hear this familiar tune in their dreams.

4/10

the ideas are not presented coherently with enough evidence to believe what you are talking about, the concept might have merit but you haven't put in the work and fleshed it out and made it interesting to read. we can't publish this.

>>4422356
I presented creator interviews but here are some videos and manuals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjF3rDuRatc
http://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Sega_Saturn/manual/Formated/NiGHTS_into_Dreams..._-_1996_-_Sega.pdf
https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/202641131-Nights-Journey-of-Dreams-Manual-Wii
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m95QocHb2sM

>>4422368
Kids at the beginning of the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM2n6FZXo4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xe6KnTXnDU

Kids in the game's ending cutscene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV26sNl_9T8

Claris and Elliot meet, two kids who have gotten stronger after NiGHTS inspired them, and begin a relationship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljNRRRKbvCE

Another aspect I like about the game is that NiGHTS' gender is ambiguous, which makes it easier to identify with him/her regardless of the player's gender. Indeed, NiGHTS also dualizes with a character of each gender to represent this idea.

>>4422291
>"There is no NiGHTS!"

It's the best moment to you and yet Reala never said that?

>>4422291
i love how saturn fans shit all over n64 fans, yet prop this 7/10 flying through hoops game as some kind of GOAT

Best theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlxNqqpFrEo&t=3s

>>4422620
OP here, I know NiGHTS like the back of my hand and I can safely say s/he did. I've already posted video proof of it, if you want to hear an English VA repeat the iconic line then by all means help yourself: http://youtu.be/Bk9WjqwlaNo?t=54

S/he never said "Beadichinoa/Bedishino NiGHTS" in the game, if you look up "Beadichinoa/Bedishino" on Google you only get NiGHTS-related results. It's not a real word, but it's what "There is no NiGHTS" roughly translates to phonetically for the Japanese.

The confusion regarding this stems from an interview where Yuji Naka offhandedly remarked Mr. Iizuka made up a word for "let's go NiGHTS" which was likely because the line was just before a boss battle. Keep in mind Naka's memory is fuzzy, the game was released two decades ago since his 2017 interview. Even in 2007 Lizuka was fuzzy on details, such as believing Naka made public statements about Selph's existence.

>>4422825
When did I shit on N64 fans? And if you're just looking at NiGHTS into Dreams solely from a gameplay perspective then yes it's underwhelming, but the story, lore, setting, and characters are all deep masterpieces that prove video games are an art form.

Have a fun video :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlpvhHD3I3A

>>4422839
That might be the best theme for me too. It's interesting how Jackle is one big Alice in Wonderland homage since both take place in dreams. To this day I ponder if he was meant to resemble Wizeman, the wiki says as much but that can't be blindly trusted. Hmmm

>>4422862
I like to think that Jackle was Nights' replacement after defecting, but I think Jackle might have always been there.

>>4422874
Never considered that, they are very high ranking in Wizeman's army so it's possible.

I also forgot to mention in the OP that "There is no NiGHTS" is a great line because it also establishes Reala as the more cocky of the two, basically doubling as a statement that NiGHTS is so insignificant they might as well not exist in comparison to their might.

>>4422874
Never considered that, they are very high ranking in Wizeman's army so it's possible. At the least, Jackle could have always existed but only ended up replacing NiGHTS once s/he defected and was imprisoned.

I also forgot to mention in the OP that "There is no NiGHTS" is a great line because it also establishes Reala as the more cocky of the two, basically doubling as a statement that NiGHTS is so insignificant they might as well not exist in comparison to their might.

>>4422890
>they are very high ranking in Wizeman's army so it's possible

I was just thinking because they were both jesters. I didn't even know that they had ranks to them.

>>4422903
Jackle has an equivalent boss role to Reala during the events of the game. Most likely, Jackle had a lower rank beforehand due to not being a level one Nightmaren like NiGHTS or Reala but Wizeman had no choice but to put a weaker replacement in NiGHTS' place, or Jackle was created out of thin air specifically to replace NiGHTS.

It could also be likely Jackle was always trying to take NiGHTS' spot and immediately jumped at the chance to get a promotion. Like Reala, Jackle is a very aggressive warrior; the perfect candidate to replace the stronger but more laid back NiGHTS.

>>4422921
I was kind of thinking that myself.

There's more lore than I though and potential for more lore, which makes me appreciate this series more.

>>4422825
>>4422851
The gameplay is good, it's just most people are too bad to start doing shit like infinite chains.

>>4422936
Indeed, most of it is only given through backstory statements in the manual and HD version's synopsis, symbolism, one-liners, cutscenes that are completely devoid of any dialogue, and even the soundtrack so it takes a lot of contemplation to understand the story of the game.

I really do miss games that didn't hold the player's hand in regards to explaining the story, it's just a shame Journey of Dreams wasn't nearly as subtle in regards to it as NiD's show-don't-tell approach.

>>4422937
I really like the gameplay with an analog stick but I just don't think it's the highlight of the game.

>>4422954
>I really like the gameplay with an analog stick

I do, too. It makes me think that it's a missed opportunity that this NiD doesn't have a 3DS port. At least there is a decent collection of Sega titles on it.

>>4422963
If you think that's a waste opportunity just imagine how perfect Ristar 2 would be on a touch screen handheld system. Using the touchscreen to spin Ristar around would be the shit. Oh well

I'd also kill for Mega Man Legends 3 to be on the Vita and allow you to use the back touchpad for strafing like in the Ratchet & Clank Collection but both Mega Man and the Vita are long dead by now. RIP in RIP

>>4422291
it's a shame JoD was such shit

I remember getting really hyped to fight Reala, but then I beat him on my first try in 20 seconds.

>>4423316
It took me a little more than that, but admittedly not a very hard boss at all.

What's more is the final boss is as easy as the boss in SA2. Basically the same thing going on.

Question: does everybody here prefer the Sega Saturn original or the HD remaster?

>>4423747
ps2 remake's new graphics are decent, but the saturn version has better menu presentation and 2 player versus along with more christmas nights extras.
there's also gameplay issues on ps2 where nights collides differently with walls and the ideya capture can drift too far. plus game speed issues where some links are harder.

>>4423765
oh I was thinking of the PS3/360/PC remaster, I keep forgetting that the PS2 version is a thing. The HD version even comes with Christmas NiGHTS into Dreams.

>>4423334
Wizeman is pretty weak and only takes a couple hits to kill because he's never been a fighter, just a tyrannical human visitor who pulls the string behind the scenes. Too bad JoD retconned this shit to make him an all powerful big bad monster.

Played this game as a kid on a rented SS. Never finished it but when I think back the game invokes memories of pure happiness. How is SS emulation? Would love to play it again.

>>4423793
You don't even have to bother emulating it. It's on Steam for only a few bucks and free if you torrent it

It comes with both the original Sega Saturn version and a reworked HD remaster, as well as Christmas NiGHTS into Dreams as a bonus

>>4423797
Oh really? Buying it when I get home then.

I just found out there's a NiGHTS costume in Sonic Forces.

Fucking gross

>>4423096
I haven't bought a console since PS2 and was ready to buy a whole new console just for JoD. I waited till it came out, first gameplay video I loaded it up, he comes down and starts talking like a fucking retard, everything else after that was indicative of everything wrong with modern games. Dropped immediately. It's non canon to me.

Also, that video, I was there was entire game built around exploring that beautiful world on foot, finding all sorts of secrets. Some of the most fun I ever had in games was running around that 3D dream world searching and searching without ever turning into Nights. What I was searching for...I don't know.

>>4422936
>>4422303
>>4422291
Bedroom-eyed NiGHTS kind of creeps me out.

>>4426214
Big NiGHTS fan so naturally I was stoked for JoD. It was a day 1 purchase and a day 2 return. What a waste.

>>4426485
NiGHTS got the booty though in it

>>4426526
BACK UP DAT ASS TOO FAT

>>4426541
WOOP WOOP

So many storyfags here on /vr/, no wonder the industry is the way it is rn

>>4426816
All the people good at games hang out at /vg/.

>>4426818
ty I'll check that board more to see if that's true

inb4 trolled

Anyway, sad stuff

>>4426816
OP here, I appreciate the gameplay as well and I like plenty of games without any story to them. Liking story and liking gameplay isn't mutually exclusive, and I like NiGHTS because it tells story subtly in a way that would be difficult if not impossible to do outside of video games; this is legitimate appreciation for the medium.

>>4426837
Fair enough, this I can respect

bump

>>4429726

>>4422368
>I presented creator interviews
citation needed.

>>4429732

>>4429738

>>4426837
you appreciate the medium? like how people in clubs cheer the dj and not the artist? im tryin to wrap my head around this. you are glorifying the cd or what? not tryin to be a dick, but i dont understand what you mean

>>4422851
>if you're just looking at NiGHTS into Dreams solely from a gameplay perspective then yes it's underwhelming
I will fight you on this. NiD's gameplay is simple, but it's presented in such a way that it can engross a wide variety of people on a really deep level. Like, I come back to it time and time again because I love scoring and getting huge links (and that whole system has a lot of great design work going on), but you're attached to it because you found the world and characters so engrossing. I'm sure lots of kids spent way more time just walking around and exploring the stages than actually flying with NiGHTS and had this whole seperate experience that has nothing to do with why I love the game. Then you get into the whole Nightopian system that's woven straight into the experience everywhere else, and I know a lot of people got really into the Mepian breeding thing and got their fill of enjoyment without ever worrying about what you or I worry about when we play this game. It's such a simple game, but it's deeply engrossing on so many levels. That's phenomenal to me.
>>4429762
He appreciates how its storytelling is something that couldn't exist outside of the medium of video games.

JoD advice: it's trash, but it's tolerable if you keep something else on hand to do during the cutscenes. Gets a lot more fun once the main story is over so you can skip cutscenes and focus on A ranks. And once you get the Dream Drop out of the Nightopian garden thing, never ever go in there ever again. I just recently 100%'d it in 1080p through Dolphin, had an okay time. The Chase missions are tolerable, the Link missions are genuinely fun, and everything else is really hit and miss. I'd say the entire experience misunderstands the strengths of the original but Nightopia is still a pleasant place to be and the NiGHTS gameplay is still essentially the same. The music saves a lot of the experience, as is the case with a lot of Sonic Team's lesser work.

>>4426461
>Not wanting to fuck NiGHTS

>>4429762
OP here, most story-driven video games are basically interactive movies. NiGHTS into Dreams tells a great story but it doesn't hold the player's hand by delivering hours worth of exposition in cinematics like most modern games do. Here are some examples of storytelling that could only be done well in the video game medium:

>The backstory doesn't have to take up a huge amount of the game or an introduction cutscene. It is given in the info section for the HD remake or the instruction manual in the original. This allows the player to cut to the meat of the game while getting the gist of the story quickly, allowing them to fill in the blanks with their imagination
>The stages transition because the stages transition, the player needs a new level to go to. They don't need a cinematic going on about how the physics of dream travelling works like in JoD
>The character select screen has sound effects that are familiar to a child in a minute+ long track. You can't make a movie with a still picture of two children while it plays in the background, but in an interactive medium the player can just set their controller down for a second and listen
>There is no dialogue in the game other than one line. It's like an avant garde experience of sorts, you don't see this in shit like movies unless it has narration or is a silent film (but even those tend to have caption cards) which makes the one line of dialogue that much more impactful. What medium besides video games could you get away with this and still have a hit?
>The setting is traveled by the player personally, each player will have a different experience and come to different conclusions about the symbolism pertaining to the world around them
>We don't need a huge amount of excuses at to why the villain is what he is or a long speech about how he fell into the black sea, it's only very subtly implied

>>4430498
So all in all, NiGHTS into Dreams takes full advantage of its status as a visual and interactive medium experience to portray its story, characters, setting, and lore unto the player

>>4429737
http://www.nightsintodreams.com/?p=1612#more-1612
http://www.nightsintodreams.com/?p=640
http://www.nightsintodreams.com/?p=1343 (turns out this article is from 2010, I thought it was from this year. oh well)

>>4429846
When I say underwhelming I mean that a lot of people go into it expecting the best gameplay system they've ever experience since it often gets hailed as the best game on the Sega Saturn only to be disappointed afterwards to the point many go as far as to call it a Superman 64 clone. It also doesn't help that a lot of them go in without the 3D control pad. I agree with you though

What's the best way to play it on linux? Yabause starts a black screen that I got past once by luck and Mednafen tells me the mds is too large.

are you playing christmas nights yet /vr/?

>>4431959
I play it every Christmas :)

>>4423747
I like the ps2 version

>>4432230
So I heard they fucked up the flight momentum in that version. Dunno if it's true, I don't care.

>>4432250
Not really,

if anything it's less jerky

>>4432250
It's Japan only but I'd like to play it. My toaster can't run it :(

Hoping to get a gaming laptop for Christmas

There was something pretty special about playing NiGHTS, for the first time, in 1996, when you were young and even crude 3D was still mindblowing, and global warming wasn't a thing, and the internet was still fresh, before 9/11 but after the fall of the Berlin wall. I guess you had to be there. Yeah, if you take it and slap it on a cold slab and dissect it, it's not much of a game, but if you were there at the time, it was special.

>>4432250
>>4432334
I have the PS2 version and it does controls worse, and somehow feels slower.
This game was supposed to be part of the Sega Ages series but ended up getting a sort of special edition release. But you can see all the programmers are chinese, as are most of the other Sega Ages ports, so you can't expect high quality ports from these. The exception is the ports done by M2, which is a japanese company run by industry veterans.
The book included in the package was worth the 20 bucks I paid though.

I really appreciate the style of Yuji Naka-headed games, how they encourage repeat playthroughs and reward skilled play handsomely but don't immediately shut out novices. Anyone here play Rodea for Wii? Not retro but it shares some thematic elements with NiGHTS.

>>4433782
Oh, I had ran my off of freemcboot