/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4357359
Who is this "someone"? Maybe your dad, from whom you inherited shitty taste in video? The kind of faggot you're describing would be compensating for his small cock with a rear projection screen not that relatively tiny screen that can be seen with the lights on from an angle.

Now our medium size TVs that we use for normal viewing are bigger than the biggest CRTs at a fraction of the weight and volume. Most of us probably played games on a modestly sized secondary TV versus the big family TV.

Or an arcade monitor, which is what playing consoles in RGB on a pro monitor back then would have felt like which would have been awesome.

>>4357359
>they would choose the big boi no questions asked

don't make generalized statements assuming everyone would be as ignorant as you assume you would be

>>4357359
Actually OP, you're right. Most people back then would have chosen big boy.

>>4357770
Correlation =/= causation. Just because there are more diagnoses measured doesn't mean there were necessarily less people with autism in earlier reports. It could very well be that there were more people in that spectrum who never got diagnosed to begin with.

>>4357864
Just a joke anon. I actually care a lot about audio/video stuff, but a lot of the replies OP's gotten so far imply most people then or even today care all that much.

>>4357878
You've got a point there. A lot of people on this board seem to be circlejerking a lot on PVMs and those "muh original hardware" versus "muh emulation" troll threads make me wonder how many of those anons are just shitposting or actually serious about it cause you never know nowadays when you see stuff on the internet.

>>4357442

This. OP might be right but size isn't the determining factor for us anymore with CRTs because if we wanted a big TV we can get a flatscreen that's bigger and cheaper.

I never even heard of PVMs until a few years ago

Fuck man if you had a 19" PVM in the 90s you could probably have sold the fucker and bought a handful of decent consumer CRTs.

But anyways, the reason that they've become popular recently is because professional monitors were traditionally very expensive, but now you can pick up cast-offs for far less than you would ever have been able to get one twenty years ago.

CRT love isn't just nostalgia or arrested development, it's also about aesthetic taste, something that varies from person to person and can change over time and based on different circumstances.

Unfortunately, letting your own insecurities drive you to attack people just because they do something different than you do is apparently something some people never grow out of.

Wait, what do you mean by "REAL ASS"? The TVs are bad?

>>4357359
If someone is the average consumer, yes.
You're correct.

>>4357359
Well, in Yurop pic related existed.
I'd take a 28" black Trinitron that has RGB input, PAL60 and full geometry settings in the service menu over a 19" PVM like most fags have here.

>>4357359
People today chose the big boi too. That's why shitty LCD's took over from CRT's in the first place. Normies saw they were bigger and flocked immediately despite the rubbish picture quality and myriad flaws.

>>4359251
In the first place they weren't bigger. They are pushed as being better for the environment. This was backed up with bogus data and forced on people through legislation. Not to say they weren't kew and all but it was largely a racket.

>>4358372

I'll take NTSC over RF before that

So... Besides a PVM, what's the best set to play? Any model or particular brand?

>>4359528
I'm glad that you're aware of leftist boogeymen like "muh environment" but it was mostly natural market forces that supplanted CRTs, maybe possibly pushed forward through subsidies from muh environment lobbies but I can't really imagine some sinister agenda. Maybe I'm not schizo enough, it's been too long since I did psychedelics I bet.

I like my 27" Sony Trinitron except on moving days. I got it free from an old man and had to carry it up some steep stairs. Seems kinda stupid having this big CRT TV for just playing some PS1/2 games on it, but i enjoy it.

>>4359550
GOD DAMN GRAMPS YOURE A FUCKING LEGEND

>>4359529
Why?

>>4359684
50hz meant 50fps in most games vs 60. A lot of games were poorly adapted for the change and had fucked up audio or ran slower because of it.

>>4359529
>>4359750
I'll take the black trinitron and just plug in a NTSC consoles, the PAL60 shits support NTSC over composite
not to mention, you do realize there is not PAL/NTSC when using RGB?

best of both worlds, NTSC games for bad conversions, PAL games for the good ones

>>4359756
Learn2Enrish.
But you're right.

>>4359528
>forces that supplanted CRTs
>imagine some sinister agenda
It was the "organization", I worked for them.

>>4359750
>50hz meant 50fps in most games vs 60
That's not due to PAL, for one, that's due to the mains frequency. PAL is the colour encoding. Also, the person you replied to said PAL60, which is 60hz, if you couldn't tell.
>the PAL60 shits support NTSC over composite
No, it is PAL60, it supports PAL. It may support NTSC as well, but does not do so necessarily by virtue of being PAL60.
>A lot of games were poorly adapted for the change and had fucked up audio or ran slower because of it.
You don't have to play the PAL games, you nonce. Most Japanese consoles are very easy to mod to run 60hz, then you get PAL60. Some games ran faster, too, remember, like Super Mario Bros.

>>4358112
Cheaper and also shitty for analog signals.

Just give me big 25-30 inch crt tv ideally with rgb scart(despite being north American) but as long as there is one component input then im ok with it.

Europe got it right with PAL60, too bad many games didnt support it until the dreamcast.

(((who))) wanted us to use shitty lcds indeed

Got this 27" ASS TV plugged on some high quality S Video cable for my PS2, and the image quality was so much better than the composite I had before that I could see aliasing parts in the graphics once I get very close. And when I played Gran Turismo there was no aliasing cuz the game was HD and looked clear and sharp as fuck. And I still can have my GPU connected to it and have the same quality on PC games and so on. I have been keeping that ass TV for 20 years and has gone to the technician only once. After he fixed he made s-video look better I don't even know what he did. Here is a vid showing how s video look better than component. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d6DpGuXQ48

>>4359837
>No, it is PAL60, it supports PAL. It may support NTSC as well, but does not do so necessarily by virtue of being PAL60.
_ALMOST_ all TVs that support PAL60 support NTSC signals too. Black Trinitrons with PAL60 do for a fact.

>>4359880
Bad ass. Can you post a link to the s video cables you used ?

Hey guys, stupid question..

If I use a VGA to S-video (for my Laptop to connect to my CRT), will that give my emulated games the look as if I had the original console?

>>4359837
>Most Japanese consoles are very easy to mod to run 60hz
Please explain.

>>4359934
You can't do VGA to S-Video passively, ones 31kHz the others 15kHz.
You need an active converter for that.

>>4359934
The TV encoder chips in PC video cards only output 480i over S-video/composite, while it's much preferred to be able to output 240p. They don't look or feel the same.

>>4359837
>You don't have to play the PAL games, you nonce. Most Japanese consoles are very easy to mod to run 60hz, then you get PAL60. Some games ran faster, too, remember, like Super Mario Bros.
Why would you even need to mod it to run at 60Hz when you could use native NTSC? As mentioned already, a lot of those 90's and early 2000's PAL TVs support it fine.

>>4359942
First, most old cards that have a s-video or composite output, can easily output 240p if you know how to do it.
Second, he was talking about VGA, that's a no go for a standard TV, specially over S-Video.

>>4359941
>>4359942
Thanks

>>4359926
https://www.amazon.com/Playstation-3-S-Video-AV-Cables/dp/B000SDPW5M

>>4359923
>_ALMOST_ all TVs that support PAL60 support NTSC signals too. Black Trinitrons with PAL60 do for a fact.
I didn't deny that.
>>4359935
>Please explain.
You can mod Japanese consoles to run at 60hz with little difficulty.
>Why would you even need to mod it to run at 60Hz when you could use native NTSC?
1. For superior PAL colours over poor video signals
2. More likely to natively support RGB
3. Cheaper than importing
>As mentioned already, a lot of those 90's and early 2000's PAL TVs support it fine.
NTSC sucks.

>>4359943
see
>>4359962

>>4359962
Why bother modifying it when you can just plug it in with RGB again?

ITT:retards who can't differentiate between PAL,NTSC and RGB 60hz,54,4hz,57hz or whatever.

>>4359967
We where talking about composite not RGB.
If you'd read the actual thread, you'd know we already mentioned that RGB does not care about PAL or NTSC.

>>4359970
And who the hell gives a rats ass about composhit and s-video when you have systems which can natively output RGB?

>>4359971
For systems that can't natively output RGB.

>>4359967
>Why bother modifying it when you can just plug it in with RGB again?
For 60hz, you idiot. Using RGB doesn't suddenly make your consoles output 60hz.

>>4359974
>You need to mod Japanese systems to output 60hz
Are you retarded? Also even some PAL systems can output it natively.

I don't understand why you would need to modify a Japanese system that is NTSC to run at 60Hz when it does it already?

>>4359983
Re-reading his reply I think he meant modifying PAL consoles of a Japanese origin for 60hz is not difficult.

>>4359982
I'm talking about modding PAL systems, you spastic. This is reasons for modding a PAL system rather than importing. Are you this stupid?
Yes, some PAL consoles output 60hz natively, but most don't. What a pointless thing to say.

>>4359991
>You can mod Japanese consoles to run at 60hz with little difficulty.
Go back to grade school levels of English class chump. Nice damage control though.

>>4360002
Meant to be non-Japanese, learn comprehension.

I love the shitfest here, in the end you're all retards, you do know that?
Actual people with brains don't even give fuck about your little arguments.

>>4360015
Then why are you so concerned?

>>4360010
Also. it's not true that buying the PAL systems is always cheaper, it's true for stuff such as MasterSystem,Mega Drive and Playstation etc
But for Super Famicom,SEGA Saturn and what not hell fucking no.

So can I get a scart TV from europe and play my american consoles with it?
Without lag and shit

>>4360030
Well outside of the voltage being rated differently it's no problem whatsoever. But in the context of shipping costs you might as well settle for some domestic Professional Monitor except no need to sperge on about some busted EOL PVM,BVM etc

>>4360027
They are always cheaper, because you don't have to buy them online. I've found plenty of Nintendo consoles for less than £10. You just have to look and be willing to repair if necessary.
>>4360030
Yeah, you could do that.

>>4360030
Yes, I don't know how this is a weird concept, many 90's european consumer TV sets accepted NTSC signals natively.

>>4359947
>First, most old cards that have a s-video or composite output, can easily output 240p if you know how to do it.
You can't bypass the TV *encoder* chips that feed the composite/S-video outputs on any of those cards. They always encode to 480i.

>Second, he was talking about VGA, that's a no go for a standard TV, specially over S-Video.
Whenever anyone mentions "VGA," I never assume that they know the difference between the signal type and the output port. There are old systems that used the HD15 port to feed special dongles with S-video and composite.

>>4360084
>You can't bypass the TV *encoder* chips that feed the composite/S-video outputs on any of those cards. They always encode to 480i.
Nope. Where did you ever get that idea?

>>4360084
>Whenever anyone mentions "VGA," I never assume that they know the difference between the signal type and the output port. There are old systems that used the HD15 port to feed special dongles with S-video and composite.
VGA is a spoecification. Not everyone's a dumbass like you.

>>4360185
VGA is a card, a connector, and a de facto signal standard, there is no official specification.

>>4360191
The connector is DE-15.
The way it's wired what what it carries is the VGA specification.
The graphics hardware is VGA and hence it's called the VGA connector.

>spergmaster tries to win the thread by denying known facts rudely
story of this board, nice work gamers

>>4360205
Please link this VGA specification. There is none.

Almost nobody is using actual VGA hardware.

>>4360240
>There is none.
Maybe you would like to google VGA specification first?

You do realize it's a proprietary standard from IBM?
Also the expanded VESA SVGA.

>Almost nobody is using actual VGA hardware.
How is this relevant? If it's a VGA port, it is at very least compatible with standard VGA.

>>4360248
Proprietary hardware that became a de facto standard is not a specification, a specification is a document.

Any hardware compatible with the original IBM VGA is not directly compatible with any current hardware called VGA, you've got a different connector, a wide range of different refresh rates.

>>4360181
Post a PC graphics card with a TV encoder chip that will output 240p over S-video/composite directly.

>>4360283
>a specification is a document.
Are you implying that there is not a document that specifies how VGA works?
There are several, ones is proprietary IBM, the others VESA.

>Any hardware compatible with the original IBM VGA is not directly compatible with any current hardware called VGA
It is though, everything using VGA has to support 640x480 at 60Hz. The original VGA.

>you've got a different connector
No, what are you thinking about, EGA, CGA?

>a wide range of different refresh rates.
It still does 60Hz.

Just because it's expanded on VGA, does not mean it's not VGA or that it's not backwards compatible, take VESA SVGA for example.

>>4359750
Lots of pal tvs support 60hz and he did pal60

>>4360302
VESA Super VGA is a specification extending the de facto VGA compatible parts, which weren't following a single specification. Many early VGA cards and monitors including IBM's first, the 8514 Color Monitor used a DE-9 connector like EGA/CGA, not the DE-15 that became standard.

There are many things with a VGA connector that don't support 640x480@60Hz, including any current computer running windows 7 or newer, 800x600 is the lowest selectable by default.

Early VGA monitors were only capable of ~31-35kHz modes, making them incompatible with a lot of current hardware.

>>4359251
>>4359528
>>4359550
Sounds like you niggers were too poor for plasma when it came out.

Fuck those miniscule PVMs and faggots who use them. You are sacrificing comfort for a tiny bit better IQ (and in Europe where I'm from the difference is especially small, because every TV has RGB SCART). My fucking phone has the same screen size as some of your "optimal displays for retro gaming". Are you retarded? I blame people from S-Video regions for this shitty autistic fad. Unless you are using 20" PVM you are an idiot.

>>4360352
Both my "big" displays are plasma but there was never a time they represented much of the market.

>>4360406
I'm getting half blind and my pvm-14 is perfectly usable from five feet away. My 20 is actually big enough I've been thinking of just picking up a completely gutted arcade cab to put it in since it doesn't get much use in my mancave any more.

>>4360423
>mancave
That is just a stupid marketing term used exclusively by "men" who let their wives dominate them.

>>4360454
"OK"

>>4359880
i think it looks sharper in component still but the brightness is too high so it gets washed out. maybe there's something in the service menu to fix it

>watching double dare 2000 the other day
>one of the obstacle prizes is a 36" Zenith with picture-in-picture

Imagine how heavy that shit was

CRTs are dead because they were FUCKING GIGANTIC you dumbfucks

Mounting a slim 50"+ TV 1 inch from your wall makes up for A LOT of picture quality related issues

>>4360830
this is the typical kind of backwards progress we should expect at this point

people are more concerned about how the television looks when it's not on

>>4360841
There actually is a point where economy of space actually becomes an issue. Would you really want a TV that's as big and heavy as two refrigerators?

i just sold a PVM that I got for free years ago for $$$$. Got to love meme trends.

>>4360841
Why would I want a dumpster sized TV in my living room? I love my 36” Trinitron but that’s for den/garage usage only. There is a limit to a CRT where it becomes simply too big. It’s hard as fuck to get something through the front door that’s that large, not to mention hard to repurpose to another room. Let’s say I had a 55” flat screen in my living room and I upgraded to a higher resolution 60” later. I could take the older one and place it in my master bedroom on the wall and it would look fine, because it’s thin. I couldn’t do that with a CRT that size. It would be limited to living room usage only.

>>4361189
>tfw 36" CRT in bedroom

Would a sony CPD-E200 be any good for snes and ps2 gaming?

>>4362053
Would be pretty good for PS2, does 480p, and can most likely do 720p and 1080i too for the few games that can do that. Does do sync on green, so no converter cables required once you get it into 480p mode. Would need an upscaler for games that require 480i, and for initial setup.

Doesn't support 240p/480i video, so for a SNES would need to go through an upscaler.

Cheapest upscaler you could use would be a GBS 8200 or similar so long as you can get RGB out of the SNES.
Get a SCART to VGA cable for input + SCART cables for the consoles, or for a bit better quality, could make your own.

Higher quality scalers like the XRGB Framemeister or OSSC would look quite a bit better than what the GBS does for 480i/240p input but do cost quite a bit more.

>>4358372
This

>>4360349
>VESA Super VGA is a specification extending the de facto VGA compatible parts
It's like this hasn't been said already before you posted it. Took you some time to realize it, uh?

Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Graphics_Array#Specifications
Original VGA specifications.

>Many early VGA cards and monitors including IBM's first, the 8514 Color Monitor used a DE-9 connector like EGA/CGA, not the DE-15 that became standard.
Nobody said there wasn't VGA hardware that didn't use the same connectors.
DVI-I also does plain VGA when not having the same connector.

>including any current computer running windows 7 or newer, 800x600 is the lowest selectable by default.
False. You're just too dumb to select it as newer Windows versions don't show it anymore.
I don't even know what you're trying to proove when you're this stupid.

>Early VGA monitors were only capable of ~31-35kHz modes, making them incompatible with a lot of current hardware.
It's 31kHz. Any current monitor also supports it.

>>4362328
A table of specifications of one particular hardware implementation is not specification document. See the DVI specification for an example of a proper one www.cs.unc.edu/~stc/FAQs/Video/dvi_spec-V1_0.pdf, VGA doesn't have a spec like that, it's de facto.

> lowest selectable by default.
>by defaulty

Current monitors will support old VGA modes, old VGA monitors will not support current VGA output defaults.

>>4362328
Rude anon, I think on your mission to be as abrasive as possible, you are guilty of intentionally miscomprehending a lot of what the other guy is saying to create false conflict between what his and your points, as well as ignoring a lot of the correct stuff he's saying.

It's an anonymous board, don't let this stuff make you so angry. When you walk out of your house, nobody will know from your face or your name that you're the fucking retarded baby-brained idiot who loses arguments on the internet. Take the loss like a man without involving your pride. You're a dumb piece of shit, move on.

I see little reason to seek out and pay a lot for PVM when regular CRTs work well enough for most uses. You can even use a normal CRT as an arcade monitor and hardly anyone will notice the difference.

>>4362390
>Current monitors will support old VGA modes, old VGA monitors will not support current VGA output defaults.
that's what backwards compatibility usually is

>>4362390
>A table of specifications of one particular hardware implementation is not specification document.
A specification does not need to be a signed document like a patent you silly fool.
I can make a specification for a connector type to connect USB controllers, all the specification would say is that it uses USB protocol, a particular connector and how the pins are wired, it is still a specification, BY DEFINITION.
You're just moving the goalpost now.

>>4362396
>You're a dumb piece of shit, move on.
>getting shit on for being an idiot on a anonymous imageboard
>hurr ur a dumb piece of shit Dx
Yeah, typical.

>>4362415
Also this.

>>4362396
>Rude anon, I think on your mission to be as abrasive as possible, you are guilty of intentionally miscomprehending a lot of what the other guy is saying to create false conflict between what his and your points, as well as ignoring a lot of the correct stuff he's saying.
why the anon you replied to? the other one is being as much of an idiot, both want to have the last word, doesn't even matter if one is right and the other is wrong

>>4362408
As long as the CRT is at least 27" and has S Video or Component plug hole, you would never notice a big diference over PVM and is much more worth the price. Also a bigger CRT is better to play with a friend than a smaller PVM so you don't need to get very close to the screen.

>>4362419
I read back through thread. Rudeboy is the one acting like you say, the other guy is just replying normally. Just because the conversation as a whole is boring and annoying doesn't mean they're both participating like retarded kids. Just one of them.

>>4362434
>doesn't mean they're both participating like retarded kids
they are tough
at least the rude one isn't a tech illiterate, I'm sick of seeing those on /vr/
I can even accept shitposting as long as it's not tech illiterate hipster talk

>>4362445
I don't know man, something about constantly micro-correcting stuff that isn't wrong just to have something to say gets very tiresome. I'll just leave it alone.

>>4362468
>micro-correcting
>implying this isn't an autistic board and even the slightest thing that's wrong is still just wrong

>>4362468
>isnt wrong

It’s still wrong dude. Sorry. Can’t handle it? Then stop repeating shit that’s wrong and keep it to yourself.

>>4362425
Why component?

>>4362756
Better quality than S-video, more likely to see it than RGB on north american models.

>get SNES 240p suite grid and linearity almost perfect
>plug PS1 in
>huge cutoff on right

Trying to find a middle ground but fuck different resolutions

What the fuck happened to this thread?

Anyway bumping for this:
>>4360181
>>4360289

The existence of a card like this would be news to /crt/. But I'm guessing that was just another part of this guy's troll.

>>4362881
You need an underscan button

>>4362745
>I can deny facts by telling people to shut up and being an asshole
yikes

>>4362885
You never owned old Radeons with S-Video out or related cards of the time?
You can pump the refresh rate up to 120Hz and resolution to 240p.

/crt/ knows about it, but 90% of /crt/ these days is just hipsters and retards.
Just because you don't understand how things work, does not mean someone is trolling.

>>4364145
I've owned a couple of Radeon (and one pre-Radeon) AIWs over the years.

Try it yourself, anon. You simply can't get 240p directly from any PC TV encoder chip through its composite or S-video outputs.

>You can pump the refresh rate up to 120Hz
Oh God, you don't even understand what you're talking about.

You just enjoy arguing and calling people dumb, even when all you have is lies. What a weirdo. Fucking gamers, man.

>>4364273
>Try it yourself, anon.
I literally am using it.
All nice visible scanlines on my Trinitron and everything.

>You simply can't get 240p directly from any PC TV encoder chip through its composite or S-video outputs.
Except they aren't using a TV encoder chip or whatever you're talking about. They just turn the 31kHz signal from the VGA(RGB) RAMDAC into 15kHz and feed it over S-Video or composite.

>>4364273
>Oh God, you don't even understand what you're talking about.
Says the guy who can't get it to work.

>You just enjoy arguing and calling people dumb, even when all you have is lies. What a weirdo. Fucking gamers, man.
Sure, have fun. It's funny that you can't even google for something simple as 240p output on old GPUs.

>>4364295
>Except they aren't using a TV encoder chip or whatever you're talking about. They just turn the 31kHz signal from the VGA(RGB) RAMDAC into 15kHz and feed it over S-Video or composite.
Magically, right?

"Whatever I'm talking about" is the one way to get S-video or composite out of any PC graphics card besides an outboard scan converter, which isn't included with any AIW or other PC card. The 240p you get out of specific cards using crt_emudriver is via RGB, and I think your casual misreading about how this works once upon a time is probably what led you to make your stupid bluff claim in the first place.

Clearly you're backtracking from this:
>>4359947
>First, most old cards that have a s-video or composite output, can easily output 240p if you know how to do it.

That is a clear lie recognized by just about anyone on this board. What do you get out of empty bluffs?

>>4364374
>I'm an idiot, so everyone else must also be one

>>4364295
Please provide a link or describe how it's done.

ITT people are mad that they're too poor to afford a PVM
>b-but muh screen size
The two widely regarded best PVMs ever are the PVM-20L5 and the PVM-20M4U, both of which are 20", more than enough to play on. And the best BVMs ever go up to 32"

any CRT PC monitor > PVMeme

>b-b-but muh hardware
>muh collection
fuck off

>>4365514
Apples and oranges m8. I have a PVM for playing console games and a CRT PC monitor for PC games.