/vr/ - Retro Games

You got me there...I can't.

>>3023931
yeah that one was a piss off, the only thing quake 2 did better was the final boss the makron was pretty cool

>not shooting it until the game crashed
Do you even quake?

>>3023931
funny story about this actually.

>in 8th grade when q1 comes out
>math teacher is one of those nerdy, cool young guys, also into quake. we become bros.
>Teacher: "Hey anon, you've gotten to the end of quake, right? Does your copy crash after shooting the final boss too much?"
>Me: "Yeah!!! So its not just my copy?! what the hell man?"
>teacher: "Iduno dude. Im calling the helpline tonight and figuring this shit out. ill let you know tomorrow"
--next day---
>Teacher: *dour look of 'this som bullshit' on his face* "So....wana know how to kill the final boss?
>Me: "Yeah!"
>Teacher: "*facepalm*....you wait for at spikeball to enter it... and then you step through the teleporter."
>Me: "Weak!! well is the ending cool at least!?"
>Teacher: "Y-.. .you just gota see it yourself, man..words fail to describe it"
--day after that--
>Me: "FUCK QUAKE!"
>Teacher: "RIGHT!?!?!"

lol, we're still bros to this day actually.

>>3024174
LOL us gamers right

The final boss of Soul Reaver.

CUT FROM FINAL RELEASE

probably the only Doom real flaw

>>3024174
>probably the only Doom real flaw
Quake nor Doom are about the end boss fights, but the journey.

>>3024217
You're very right. I still love quake and doom.

>>3024217
yet they still chose to put in boss fights so here we are

Killing Shub-Niggurath with the portal is poetic justice since her spawn used them to kill all your buddies.

It also makes sense that she doesn't attack you directly since as a Great Old One, you are utterly beneath her noticing.

The real final boss of Quake is the gauntlet of Shamblers and Vores that guard her.

>>3024235
>Killing Shub-Niggurath with the portal is poetic justice since her spawn used them to kill all your buddies
Oh my glob! I never thought of that, but you're right.

>It also makes sense that she doesn't attack you directly since as a Great Old One, you are utterly beneath her noticing.
I always thought Shub-Niggurath was just an unfinished boss at the end of a rushed game, but I like your interpretation better.

>>3024213
nah, let's be honest, that final stage is just fucking carnage. for the time i don't see how they could have created a better ending.

>>3024156

The game crashes?

I had such a hard time with this last level for a long time. I'm a perfectionist and always have to get 100% kills and secrets in every level. Of course, you could rush through and teleport kill the boss but grinding through all the kills on this one was nuts, especially with such little ammo and health around. Felt good beating it for the first time.

>>3024217
I thought the spiderdemon was cool as fuck. Even though it wasnt much of a boss fight it was still pretty fucking awesome. Icon of Sin is pretty lame but still miles ahead of shub niggerath

I liked the Quake end boss, because it was really a puzzle.
Doom 2 boss was cool idea at the time, but too frustrating to get rockets perfectly in the hole. This was when mouse only turned on horizontal axis, and frame rate was crap due to so much chaos on screen for low-end 486 computer (but other levels ran ok).
Doom episode 3 boss was also cool idea, but the opposite: too damn easy if you had BFG or even just the plasma gun.
Heretic episode 3 boss and Doom episode 2 boss were the most exciting for me overall. Also Quake mission pack 1 boss was a good arena fight.
If the Ddom episode 3 was a weak mastermind, they should have made a puzzle situation like Quake boss. That would at least make sense.

>>3024570
with no survivors

>>3024281
There was an early pirate release of this game, where the final level was a huge dark cavern with some of those water brushes all over the place, and a bunch of stuck monsters. It was kind of freaky, and I dunno if you could even end that level in any way.

Shredder in Turtles in Time/Hyperstone Heist

The biggest let down ever.

Niggers if you think this shit is bad you should see what that level was originally supposed to look like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AW0CGTPdHM

Kronos in Tales of Destiny.
That was the most pathetic final boss fight for me, and a huge let down, he didn't even attack anyone. His second form or whatever made me laugh my ass off, who the fuck designed that?

>>3025352
I like this a lot better than the cave we got. Could've been amazing with more details to make the thing look great.

>>3023931
You can just 1-hit kill her. Quake stores it's game saves in plain text. You can just use Notepad to open your game save and drop her health points to nothing for an easy kill.

>Kuja is antagonist for 99% of the game.
>Get to last dungeon.
>Face whatever the fuck this thing is.

>>3025467
The central theme of FF9 is life/death and finding the meaning of one's existence. Necron is essentially death itself and wants to destroy all existence, returning everything to nothing. He is representative of the characters' personal struggles throughout the game, and by defeating him in the climax the characters prove that they've overcome those struggles.

There literally could not be a more appropriate final boss to the game, I'm sorry such an obvious metaphor went over your head.

<GRINS EVILLY>
<CASTS HARM>

>>3025519
He might be thematically appropriate, doesn't change the fact that he came out of nowhere with zero foreshadowing. All the buildup throughout the game, the introduction and fleshing out of characters, the plot, etc. was essentially ignored by a character introduced in the last few minutes of the game that you have no connection to at all. Necron is indicative of one of FF's (And a lot of eastern games) major flaws in that they always reach for something grandiose and over the top to try and provide a climax when it really just takes a well-done character driven leadup to seal the deal.

>>3025519
>He is representative of the characters' personal struggles
This shit's right out of an undertale fan

>>3023931

I will be sincere, I played this game on the N64 and I never figured how to kill it until I replayed it some years ago in PC...

>>3025570
>All the buildup throughout the game, the introduction and fleshing out of characters
This is exactly what was all leading up to Necron. Sure, no one said "btw there's also this ubervillain who wants to destroy existence itself," but every time one of the characters faced the death of a loved one or questioned their existence, they were fighting what Necron represents. The final battle is metaphorical in that the characters are finally taking on the exact thing they've been battling internally for the entire game, so really there was an enormous amount of foreshadowing.

>>3025581
Undertale was shit.

>>3025519
You could copy-paste that plot rationalization on half of all RPG god-bosses, ever. That's such a generic and limp-wristed rationalization for bad plot I'd actually think less of the writers if that had entered their thought process when they dumped Necron into the game as a random final boss. That you came up with this at all or believed it redeems the ending or felt it should have been taken into consideration when evaluating the sloppy writing is even sillier.

>>3024570
It was patched out, but straight out of the box you can crash the game by killing Shub by doing lotsa damage.

>>3025037
I would like to play this early release. This sort of shit really interests me. I don't suppose anyone knows how to find it in this day and age?

>>3025830
Well, I shall be damned. After some searching I actually found the damn thing.

https://archive.org/details/quake_prerelease
The zip file there contains a bunch of pre-release Quakes, qtest1 is there and all, but under the Unofficial directory there is this sucker here. This ain't no qtest. Anybody who is interested in Id history or game prototypes might be interested in this.

>>3025864
As you can see it's a bit different from the final version.

>>3025870
This secret on e1m1 is still here, but Mr. Thunderbolt cannot open it. Other weapons do the job.

>>3025882
This switch is new. Or old.

>>3025885
cool biosuit bro

>>3025864
That might be it, not sure. I don't run Windows and those things don't work in dosbox. Actually the pirate version I got from IRC bot in 1996 was for DOS.
Anywway found a video of what it looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8etWsCIe9A

>>3025449

>editing the game in notepad

I just took the CD Rom and broke in half to beat the game.

>>3025864
cool find!

>>3025519
Metaphors are shitty writing.

>>3023931
What is it with western developers rarely ever getting boss fights right?

>>3024208
Pls explain

>Quake

>>3026329
Yeah. that's the one. It does work in Dosbox, too. Though it runs too fast and causes a segfault if you have the Dosbox core set to dynamic. Setting it normal makes the game run like a slug (I got about 20fps, just like old times really), but no crashes.

>>3026459
You only succeeded in defeating Trent Reznor.

>>3026568
They realized most people don't get that far.

>>3026568
Too many kiddies in the west complain that bosses are tedious to kill.

>>3026582
Soul Reaver has the worst final boss because it doesn't have one - it got cut.

>>3027985
>kiddies
can we stop using this word? it's like something a british child molester would say

>>3028078
Okay. Squeakers, then.

>>3024174
Jesus Christ

>>3028845
Wait, is that from Kung-fu Master?
I swear I finished that game, but it was in the 80's on an Amstrad CPC and I don't remember much past the first stage, apart from the one with snakes and vases.

>>3025551
MILDER!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

>>3024174
Did he diddle your noodle at any point?

>>3023931
Icon of Sin

it was really shit

I really didn't like the Nihilanth in the life of 1/2.

At least with the Niggurath I understood that I was supposed to telefrag it and got it beat fast, but the Nihilanth felt so incredibly unfair and unbalanced and Xen is a shitty mess even to this day.

>>3025467
Kuja was a shitty villain anyway.

>>3031695
kuja was best girl

>>3028845
AHUHUHUHUH

>>3023941
Quake 2 is the only id game I can think of with a cool final boss.
>in doom you just run up to the spiderdemon and two-shot it with the bfg
>in doom 2 you ride an elevator to fire rockets at a wall while fighting off some regular old monsters
>in quake you solve a simple teleportation puzzle while fighting off some regular old monsters
>in quake 2 you fight a HUMONGOUS EXOSKELETON WITH CHAINGUNS AND A BFG before a 1-on-1 showdown with FUCKING MECHA WALL-E WHO HAS BLASTERS, RAILGUNS, AND ANOTHER BFG before everything explodes and you fly the hell off of the planet
It was especially disappointing in Doom, because the Bruiser Brothers and Cyberdemon were awesome boss fights, and then you get that anti-climax... twice in ultimate doom, because Episode 4 just has another Spider Mastermind as the final boss.

Admittedly, I've never played Wolfenstein 3D. Does it have cool boss fights?

>>3031719
The Quake 1 expansions had fun final bosses

>>3031719
>2016
>not knowing about mecha hitler

So yeah, Wolfenstein 3D has the best final boss ever.

>>3031803
mechahitler isnt the final boss though hes the boss of episode 3. he is the chronological final boss but the game has 6 episodes.

>>3031719
While the quake 2 boss design is pretty cool, you turn on quad damage and hose down the boss with chaingun, and he dies in 2 seconds

Heretic and Hexen had pretty fucking cool bosses. I mean the iron liches were piss easy, but that's largely the fault of the map rather than the monster.

>>3031719
The Makron looks like a joke enemy from a JRPG.

>>3031809
So we agree, in your pedantic fashion, that Mecha-Hitler is the final boss of Wolfenstein 3D.

>>3031803
TFW you hear those footsteps

Descent 1 level 7 boss, aka. the "shareware boss". Okay, he's not the final boss, but he's the final boss in the shareware version.

What makes him so bad? Let's see:

- He teleports around randomly.
- He can insta-kill you with just one shot. His weapons home, so there's no escape.
- The room also contains several toughest enemies in the game (Class 1 Vulcan drillers and Heavy Hulks).
- The door to the room opens only from the outside, so you're trapped.
- There is almost no cover at all in the room. You can "hide" in the tunnels, but even if you can hide from the boss, the other robots will shred you. Circling around the central pillar does not offer much protection.
- There's only one cloaking device, which lasts 30 seconds and you have to fly through the room to get it (you won't make it)
- You simply don't have enough firepower to destroy him easily, because the genuinely powerful weapons will only become available in the later levels.
- If you die, you use up one life. You get thrown back to the level start and you have to go to the boss room again to get your stuff back. You won't make it that far before he kills you again.
- In the early shareware versions, YOU COULD NOT SAVE YOUR GAME. After the boss kills you 2-3 times, you have to replay the whole level if you want to try again. It can take even an hour to reach the boss again.

In the shareware versions, killing this boss was so excruciatingly difficult task I'm not sure if it even was possible. When mid-level saving was implemented, you job became slightly easier. All other points still apply and they apply to the registered version too.

In contrast, level 27 boss (which *is* the final boss) is comically easy to kill. You don't even need savegames for that.

>>3025016
Came here to say this

>>3026625
Well I just get an error when I try to run these in dosbox. Ditto with the self-extracting archives (this was one of the actual ZIP files that were on that site).
The one I got from IRC was an actual DOS version (I didn't even have Windows 3 installed).

>>3032285
Oh wait, those dates are 1997, so it must be Quake II (which never got DOS release).
I also just tried the qtest1.zip from that site, but it's the original QTEST demo with just 3 deathmatch maps. Remember loading that on my 486DX/33 and thinking it's time to upgrade!
But anyway, the pirate version I'm talking about (like in video) was actually the full game, just the last level was kinda weird and different.

>>3031924
I had the full version without ever playing the shareware

so I saved right outside the room, and it was still hard as shit

constantly moving around the central pillar seemed to work good. if he appeared in my line of sight, I'd pummel him with missiles, but keep moving in the same direction around the pillar

>>3032320
Oh, I missed the subdirectory
https://archive.org/download/quake_prerelease/Unofficial/
QUAKE_BETA3.rar seems to be the one!

>>3031809
I only played shareware Wolf3D, so I don't know much about this game. Is this another situation like Ultimate Doom, or Heretic: Shadows of the Serpent Riders, where they originally had only 3 episodes but then added more stuff?

>>3032350
Pretty much.

>>3024213
>noclip through
>Romero's head on a stick
awesome

>>3031924
The sound this guy puts out makes me shit my manties.

>>3031809
Episodes after 3 were like expansions, while SoD was like Wolf3D 2.

>>3031890
Thinking on it, id really liked to have menacing footsteps for big bosses, Hitler, Cyberdemon, Mastermind, probably another in quake or quake2

>>3032370
Gotta love the silly dev stories from stuff like that
Someone shows Romero they secretly put his head as an enemy so he makes the boss be him talking backward about defeating him

>>3032648
>not posting Wily Alien
If you fuck up on him and don't have enough lead bubble ammo, you have to restart the entire game.

>>3032675
>you have to restart the entire game.
What? Pretty sure if you game-over, it refills all your subweapon ammo.

>>3024213
>probably the only Doom real flaw
community fixed it in lastest brutal doom campaing i think

>>3032767
this got me a half chub

>>3026329
i also recall there was some cheat for quake 1 mp demos that added singleplayers mobs - and some had doom sprite fireballs

>>3032767
Sure, if you wanna play that garbage. Personally I can't see why people enjoy BD, it's such a lazy fucking mod. So many pleb-tier additions aimed at bringing in the cawadooty kiddies.

>>3032767
you can see mark4s brazilian autism shining brightly

>>3032827
This so hard. Not to mention BD's creator is a giant racist asshole. Complex Doom btfo's BD any day of the week

>>3032852
I don't see how being racist or an asshole should affect my opinion of the greatest DOOM mod ever made.

>>3032852
>being this much of a sensitive bitch
lmao'ing @ your life nigger

>>3032879
> the greatest DOOM mod ever made.
Have you played many of them anon?

>>3032890
All of them, without exception.

>>3032901
Don't be like that, it was an honest question

>>3032950
And you got an honest answer.

>>3032350
The other three episodes are part of an expansion called Spear of Destiny. Mecha-Hitler remains the final boss of actual Wolfenstein 3D, anon is just being ignorant.

>>3032675
No, you just restart the stage.

>>3033075
actually you are faggot. Spear of destiny is its own single episode 21 level mission. The final 3 episodes of wolf3d are a prequel in the storyline but they are part of the registered retail wolfenstein 3d game. I own the game do you?

>>3033392
Then why do I get the feeling you're revising history to imply that Wolfenstein was always 6 episodes?

It wasn't, and Mecha-Hitler is the final boss.

>>3033410
the retail one was that came in the box was always 6 even if those levels came out after. Nobody has the 3 episode version of the game anymore

>>3032338
>QUAKE_BETA3.rar seems to be the one!
Is it? The one I played was Pre-release_quake.zip. I wonder if there's a difference between the two.

>>3033610
Oh, this is interesting. Typing 'version' in the console gives the same result in both Pre-release_quake.zip and QUAKE_BETA3.rar but the console background is different. So the executable is the same but there must be a difference between the pak files.

>>3032604
If you think the ticking noise is bad, wait till you hear what sounds Descent 2's bosses make.

This guy here takes the prize. You meet him on level 4. He's not very tough one. But it's the noise he makes that's bad. A labored, loud mechanical breathing. Stuff from your nightmares. No other boss noise from any Descent games is so freaky than his. It's very distinctive. For "some" reason, many add-on level makers who author their own robots use his noise in their boss robots.

There once was one add-on level which had the boss robot roaming freely in the maze, there was no separate boss room. You had to keep him off your ass and find the exit and rescue the hostages. Only then you could fight him and escape. And he just keeps on breathing. I couldn't finish that level, it freaked me out so badly.

>>3032634
Armagon (final boss from Quake mission pack 1)

>>3032637
http://web.archive.org/web/20120101213828/http://www.rome.ro/lee_killough/history/doom2boss.shtml

Also, other nice info:
http://web.archive.org/web/20111230234954/http://www.rome.ro/lee_killough/history/

>>3032852
Best Doom mod desu.

>>3033427
What about all the people who registered the shareware version and got the 3-episode floppy disks mailed to them? There must be millions of the disks in closets around the world.

>>3033630
Maybe there are some small differences. I noticed that the Beta3 version doesn't run in QuakeForge, it complains about missing stuff:

Host_Init
Console initialized.
Switching to interpreter 'id'
UDP (IPv4) Initialized
40.0 megabyte heap
Fatal Error: Couldn't load gfx/palette.lmp

Maybe the other one will work though.

>>3025581
>that shit right out of undertale.
Because undertale has been around since the beginning of gaming right?

>>3031681
Do you have a higher res version of that, looks like an awesome wallpaper

>>3024281
>Sevenleaf
>Oh my glob!

im going back to the doom general

>>3032767
what map is this?

SMW bowser felt like a letdown to me

>>3034189
>giving any attention to tripfags
End yourself

Sword of Sodan has to have one of the worst final bosses I've ever seen. Apart from being boring and belonging to an already terrible game, there's an annoying noise that plays whilst facing it that speeds up the more you reduce its health. When you're about to beat him it actually sounds like your Megadrive is breaking.

>>3024213
I've played doom for nearly a decade and I've never beaten this level.
Mostly because I can't be arsed with it. It's just a wall after all.

>>3032767
This wasn't really that much of an improvement. It's still just a stationary texture, but now it has attacks.
Most of the attacks are cool, but the lightning is stupid.
Map is cramped boring too.

>>3031683

Nihilanth is a cool, freaky set-piece, much like the rest of Xen, but as a fight he sucks ass, much like the rest of Xen. I both love and hate the Xen levels, they are easily more memorable, beautiful, and atmospheric than anything else in the entire series but hoooooly fuck do they highlight all the reasons why Half-life as a shooter sucks.

>>3025551
Jesus I came here to post that. That boss was just so anticlimatic. I know it was suposed to be a joke but... still

>>3035182
>but as a fight he sucks ass

Both of Xen's bosses suck ass. I've never beaten them the same way twice since glitches galore seem to change the engine physics and boss patterns every time I play it. Here, I'll tell you what happened and hopefully it will explain how it is that I don't know what the correct way to defeat them is.

What's the first one called, Gonarch? Anyways, one playthrough she immediately charged straight at me, we fell through the floor, we both got stuck on the walls and I crowbarred her to death from there. The second time, I shot her until she charged at me and we fell through the floor again and she died instantly (I assume this is the correct behaviour). Third time I just protip: shot her until she died. Fourth time I had to restart the playthrough because she wouldn't spawn then got fed up with Half Life in general.

Nihilanth, first playthrough: teleports me through three gauntlets, then I bounced real high and shot his head for no visible effect. I accidentally bounced through his head and that killed us both but triggered the ending anyway. Second time, no teleporting, he just waited there for me to bounce up to him, although this time his head opened up like a banana peel and died when I threw some grenades into his brain. Third time was similar to the first, three gauntlets, but this time, like the second playthrough, his head opened up and I ended up getting sucked into his cranium where I crowbarred him in the brain while taking constant electrical damage until he died, which killed me as well, but again triggered the ending anyway. I'm assuming none of these were the correct behaviour.

So can anyone tell me what they were SUPPOSED to do?

>>3023931

>final boss is a Lovecraftian great old one
>not pretty cool

Guys...

>>3026525

You mean allegory.

>>3031681

Disagreed. A final boss doesn't have to be hard necessarily.

I played that stage a lot as a kid, in God mode, for max slaughter.

>>3032767

Holy fucking shit... Brutal Doom is definitely the best thing to ever happen to Doom.

>>3032827

>parroting
>parroting

Shit like that kept me from BD for years. I tried last week, and there's like 2 weapons with iron sight, only, and it serves mildly only, and the execution moves are completely optional.

Everything else enhances the game so fucking much I literally cannot go back to regular Doom.

Soooo fucking much detail was added to the game. it feels better in every regard.

It's also more difficult. People are mad because BD shows them they aren't as good as they thought, fucking pansies.

BD is absolutely based.

>>3032852
>Not to mention BD's creator is a giant racist asshole.

I'm a race realist too. If anything it adds to the mod.

>>3037293

>>3037289
You know your enemies are shit when mod makers have to resort to spamming hundreds of them at a time to get any difficulty.

>pick up a key
>9,000 revenants

Every "acclaimed" Doom .wad in a nutshell.

>>3037289
brutal doom is just gore porn for edgy teenagers.

>>3037795
I honestly got bored of the gore after five minutes. What kept me playing was that the enemies were actually fun to fight against as opposed to the original game where they just wandered aimlessly, occasionally throwing an easily dodgeable fireball maybe twice a minute.

>>3037275
>final boss is a Lovecraftian great old one
>that you cannot physically destroy
>leaves all players bewildered and confused
>leaves all players angry when they find out the solution
>forces players to question their view of quake, even of first person shooters in general

I'm sensing a strong contender for "best boss ever"

not "best boss fight"
but "best boss"

>>3037275
>final boss is a Lovecraftian great old one
>final boss cannot physically be killed
>leaves all players bewildered and confused
>leaves players angry when they find out the solution
>forces players to question their view of quake, and in fact the entire FPS genre

Strong contender for "best boss ever"

not "best boss fight"
but "best boss"

>>3032767
>beaver the rapist

>>3038147
i dont really understand this. when i first played this i decided to run up the area and kill all the enemies (which itself was fucking awesome), and then i saw a teleporter and knew exactly what to do and wasn't even fucking disappointed.

who the fuck sees a giant staircase and thinks (i would rather keep shooting this monster!" instead of going up it?

D'Sparil from Heretic was kind of disappointing.
The three Maulotaurs before him were a lot harder and more intimidating.

>>3023931
>friend lends me his quake cd after playing it at his house
>having a great time re-playing levels I saw him play at his house
>get way more into it than he ever did
>beat a few more levels and eventually get stuck
>another friend comes over and beats the level I was stuck on
>we both continue together until the last stage
>beat the lightning yetis in the last stage, get stumped
>spend all ammo for all guns on the white tentacle thing
>friend eventually goes home
>put microsoft flight simulator instruction manual on mouse button with axe equipped and leave computer
>come back half an hour later
>no result
>run around randomly
>somehow go through teleporter at just the right time and end the game
>no idea what I did or how I did it

>>3032625
^^^

>>3035264
Like the third time but without dying preferably.

>>3032767
EPIC!!! :OOO

Just like in all my Michael Bay movies!

>kids that would have preferred the game handheld them with some fucking shitty cinematic/exposition that would have spoiled the level
Just stop playing games, children. Please. Leave gaming to those who know something about how it should be. To people who enjoy actual discovery and difficulty rather than your artificial difficulty, cutscene-filled bullshit.

>>3024213
>BAWWW I'M TOO STUPID TO FIGURE SOMETHING OUT
You're not a gamer. Get the fuck out.

>>3043130
>You're not a gamer

Cool.

>>3043130
its a pretty disappointing "boss"
endless spawning monsters, and a hole in the wall you're supposed to shoot. It doesn't really even make sense in doom gameplay. You dont usually shoot walls to activate them. you certainly dont shoot hidden wall out of sight multiple times.

Its quake tier last boss fuckery, but thats ok, thats what ID wanted in both games. a fuckery mess you up final level.

>>3032852
I don't think he's a racist. I think he's just an asshole who doesn't know when he's taking a joke too far.

One time I emailed him asking if we could tone down the violence a bit, like if he could add a blood slider or something. His response: "Why, does it remind you of your monthlies?"