/vr/ - Retro Games

im not trying to shit post i just dont understand why people think the MD has better sound chip than snes

sonic is the only good use of the MD sound chip

I'm with ya, OP, I don't get it either. Just smile and nod when a Genesis fan says it. You know the truth, but just let him have it or else you'll never hear the end of it.

>>2464114
i guess i just grew up on snes

>>2464112
>sonic is the only good use of the MD sound chip
How about Sor series, thunderforce 4 , shinobi games, ristar etcetc? fuck outta here.

>>2464118
what about final fantasy, chrono trigger, pop and twin bee, streetfighter 2, sim city, tetris attack, final fight, starfox and fzero

Most western devs utilized the Genesis chip poorly, trying to synthesize bass guitar and stuff. Since SNES had sample-based music it was better equipped for this approach. However, FM synth in the right hands can make beautiful music, while SNES in even the best cases produces muffled, low fidelity noise.

It's more about the person operating the sound hardware than the hardware itself, but that's not a particularly useful answer for people who have nothing better to do than try to shit up gaming with console wars bullshit.

>>2464164
This.
The Genesis had superior sound. Plain and simple. Anybody who claims otherwise is just shitposting.

>>2464105
>people say that megadrive has a better sound chip than snes

well they're wrong

I like the genesis, I mean I'm a huge sega guy. But unless you know what you're doing with the genesis soundchip (which let's be frank very few people did) it wasn't going to sound anywhere near as good as the SNES nevermind better.

That said when the genesis soundchip is used well, it's so damn good. I mean look at the sonic games, that's a series known for how great the music is.

The ZamN soundtrack just wasn't happening on a Genesis, in the hands of any devs

no one said genesis sound is better.

>>2464161
>>2464164
even with that, it depends on your taste.
is good for some people.

in my opinion galactic music on it sounds really nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqyHFa2lR8k

must post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC-B3Q0cRrY

>>2464178
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWzWA4VXTn0

sounds like a cheap electric keyboard

>>2464105
>Genesis
>better audio than SNES

Genesis audio makes everything sound like low-res digitized farts.

Why do people even feel the need to compare the sound of two completely different systems? One is FM based, one is sample based. They both do well on their own terms.

>>2464187
Which, the SNES versions? I think they sound muffled and subdued as fuck, too.

>>2464195
the first

>>2464187
The SNES is much easier to work with when it comes to sound. You can just shit all over a composition and it will sound like the average SNES game.

Mega Drive requires work, though. If you put in work, you'll get incredible results. If you half-ass it, you end up with Sonic Spinball's options menu.

>>2464205
were voices easier on snes?

>>2464210
I am inclined to say no.

>>2464210
imo voices in NES [sic] games usually sounded better than Genesis, not even trolling. It could do some great music though.

>>2464187
weird that genesis didn't have goodlike stuff
X68000 and pc-98 and some arcade boards has similar yamaha sound chip.

cartridge space limitations or lazy programmers, dunno.

>>2464195
every snes version has practically the same sound unlike genesis. model 2,3 and model 1 with v6 board had and awful sound, just like shitty clones.

>>2464205
this. samples are cheating.
and make things like this easier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTjzzqPZPfw

pretty sure this song can be done in genesis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T7zgTrk0tU
hard as fuck but sure it can

>>2464210
yes and no. samples are easy but genesis uses a lot data space.

>>2464231
maybe its just me but the snes sounds so much better

>>2464231
>samples are easy but genesis uses a lot data space.
Not sure what you mean about the Genesis, but audio samples period use a lot of data in carts, which is why so many SNES games sound similar, they're using the same sound bank -- although some games, notably Earthbound, used a great deal of PCM samples. Genesis sounds are generated by FM synthesis and take up very little space. The YM2612 didn't have a channel dedicated to PCM, so samples had to be routed in a weird manner and played back at 8 bits. SNES PCM data is capable of 16 bit, which again is why most games tried to limit the use of samples to conserve ROM space.

>>2464105
Multiplatform games generally sounded better on the SNES than on the Mega Drive, from what I've heard, but there are exceptions.

Cool Spot Bonus Rave SNES: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbpDwaTnGGI

Mega Drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_LY7r8P3ns

Both chips are great in their own right, I'd say they're pretty equal when used properly. However, they both work very differently and that means that multi-platform games like Zombies often sound much better on one console than on the other.

Saying Sonic is the only good use of the MD sound chip is about as ignorant as if I were to say that Chrono Trigger is the only good use of the SNES sound chip.

>>2464236
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG1H_88Vmh0

the problem is that sound is handled in a total different way

>>2464237
>The YM2612 didn't have a channel dedicated to PCM
...But it does have a PCM channel?

>SNES PCM data is capable of 16 bit
All samples are packed into 4-bit ADPCM first, giving it that unmistakably blurry sound of gaussian interpolation.

>which is why so many SNES games sound similar, they're using the same sound bank
>Earthbound, used a great deal of PCM samples

Please don't make shit up. Some other fool might actually end up believing it. This is the most outright wrong post I've read in a while.

>>2464105
Genesis music has to be programmed; that's a Western developed game. No one in America knew how to program FM music. The Genesis soundtrack was probably created by using a computer program to convert midi music to FM.

>>2464108
Because it has a cool synthesizer, whereas the SNES plays incredibly low-fi samples. The number of games where devs managed to get the SNES to rock is smaller than that of the Genesis. For every Donkey Kong Country 2, there's 10 games that sound like Ninja Gaiden Trilogy.

in my opinion genesis sound chip is underrated
and it had bad luck with its composers.

every multiplatform song made. sounds like shit.
because no reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMZJ6oQayAU

>>2464231
The X68000's FM chip, the YM2151, was getting old around 1987, considering the YM2608 had just been released (Sound Board II for the PC-98) and more Yamaha chips were integrating sample playback capabilities. Sharp augmented the chip with an low-end Oki PCM to finish the package, but the recent Sharp X1turboZ had only PSG and the YM2151 to use. Differences were substantial enough between chips and their supplements to affect the kind of FM synth normally produced for a platform; the YM2612 could at least be tricked into playing samples.

>>2464250
No, every channel's reserved for FM, and neither of the main two Yamaha DACs could trick a channel into playing PCM. You're thinking of the Oki MSM6258V PCM chip used in the X68000.

>>2464194
Sometimes the argument comes down to who's more impressive, the FM-synth wizards or Kutaragi for making a chip most sound personnel could make decent-sounding music on.

Genesis had a superior CPU, the SNES sound chip ate it alive. Any Genesis music that attempted to emulate what the SNES sound was capable of failed miserably. There is some damn good Genesis exclusive music though

>>2464250

Logic is lost on SNESnobs, mayne.

>>2464263
yeah but many composers of pc98 practically never used samples

pc98
https://youtu.be/3kXx6f7qaa8

aside that I heard some people saying genesis can't play fast notes. WTF
so here's flyng moot to probe it. (sadly bad quality youtube quality)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKZ_xBQsOK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwoFTid-eSs

crappy graphics, good ost game.

>>2464274
>Any Genesis music that attempted to emulate what the SNES sound was capable of failed miserably
You could say the same for the reverse too, though. Sure, the Genesis couldn't do strings very well, but it was superior for synths in every aspect save ease of programming.

I wouldn't expect the Genesis to be very good at playing the soundtrack to Chrono Trigger or FF6, but I also wouldn't expect the SNES to be capable of playing the soundtrack to Alien Soldier or PSIV.

>>2464284
I'd say you're wrong there. Genesis could definitely do FF6 justice. And the SNES could definitely do Phantasy Star 4. SNES can actually do any Genesis soundtrack, since it uses samples. Check out Raiden Trad to see it actually sampling FM music.

I'd take the Genesis any day, though. It's soundchip is an instrument in its own right. The SNES is just playing super low quality samples and rarely even flows. My hat (*tips fedora*) definitely goes off to all those SNES composers who made top tier music on it though. Donkey Kong Country would not be possible on a Genesis. It physically cannot do all that reverb.

>>2464282
Among others, Koshiro used samples often—SBII's "rhythm" channels count on samples, not to forget the ADPCM channel. Listen to Misty Blue for some of this: http://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/misty-blue-nec-pc-8801

You have to remember that a good amount of PC-98 music was composed mainly for OPN chips (YM2203, wich has only three FM channels + three PSG), so there isn't a uniform sound for the platform.

>>2464295
*count as
*which

>>2464282
PC-98's soundchip is from the same family as the Genesis, but it is not the same one, and it is older.

>>2464297
An example of what I'm talking about is Grounseed, which has two completely separate OSTs made for two different chips:
http://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/grounseed-nec-pc-9801-opn
http://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/grounseed-nec-pc-9801-opna

You're not wrong, OPN and OPNA are closer to OPN2 than OPM or OPLL are. But many games on the PC-98, and the PC-88 in its later years, were composed in mind for OPN or OPNA, sometimes both if there was a budget/time behind the game. If you have the OPNA chip installed but the game's made with OPN in mind, then the music still plays the way it would on an OPN chip.

>>2464295
>>2464297

dunno about deep hardware stuff,
anyway is Koshiro was fucking god on yamaha chips.
maybe because he's a programer too. not only a composer.

people says genesis was hard to compose those days.
because because they had to program sound waves and stuff.

To Make The End of Battle PC-88
http://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/ys-ii-ancient-ys-vanished-the-final-chapter-nec-pc-8801

>>2464294
>Genesis could definitely do FF6 justice.

Now you've got me wondering if there's a YM2612 remix of Dancing Mad, a la the mega drive remixes of some of the megaman x tunes.

This isn't the one I was looking for but it'll have to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sik2J2ZYZgg

>>2464310
Sakimoto's another example of a composer who also programmed well and put effort into building a sound driver he could across multiple platforms. Others who debuted on Japanese PCs include Tadahiro Nitta, Masahiro Kajihara, and Daisuke Takahashi.

>>2464312
You should listen to this fan version of FFIV's soundtrack re-done on the X68000: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_HD8th6BzA

some tunes were well ported

arcade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTyVJgxV5H8

snes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7b3s5tGpCY

genesis
https://youtu.be/yBbx2rhFzYQ

>>2464312
Basing my claim on tracks such as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VPOHSVAWmc

It can't do good strings, but that's a sick fake harpsichord.

Here's SNES doing "FM":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPOQHYlTxNo

It could be better, but that is a port that wasn't by the original devs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UFxWjFFQLc
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX02ycNaNVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwAHU2zsgM0
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54degO-D4qw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyjplSRszF4
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD8cBIXICsE

>>2464328
If I heard that Batman track out of context, I'd assume it was on Soundblaster. It has that very distinctive Soundblaster bass and fake horns.

The SNES soundchip is VASTLY superior in practically every way. This was widely known for years and years, just listen to it. In particular RPG music and music in games like donkey kong countrys you could never dream of reproducing on a megadrive. The SNES sound chip has a very hard to reproduce sounds that are very difficult to emulate properly also.

Then for whatever fucked up reason, a few years ago a cancerous cult started spreading on the likes of 4chan spreading the idea that MD music was "as good" or even "better", which might be true in like 1% of sound samples, known by everyone and their mother.

Suddenly it was "mainstream" to say the SNES soundchip was amazing, while it was "cool" and "informed" to talk about how great the MD sound was also. People loved the idea of having insider knowledge and showing their superiority while fanboying their favourite system and explaining how it was "actually as good", when it's all made up shit and selectively taken samples.

>>2464178
You're an idiot. The Genesis used FM synth, the SNES used samples, basically like MIDI. Which one sounded better depended on the programmer and the soundfont.

The SNES soundchip is VASTLY superior in practically every way. This was widely known for years and years, just listen to it. In particular RPG music and music in games like donkey kong countrys you could never dream of reproducing on a megadrive. The SNES sound chip has a very hard to reproduce sounds that are very difficult or impossible to emulate properly.

Then for whatever fucked up reason, a few years ago a cancerous cult started spreading on the likes of 4chan spreading the idea that MD music was "as good" or even "better", which might be true in like 1% of sound samples.

Suddenly it was "mainstream" to say the SNES soundchip was amazing, while it was "cool" and "informed" to talk about how great the MD sound was also. People loved the idea of having insider knowledge and showing their superiority while fanboying their favourite system and explaining how it was "actually as good", when it's all made up shit and selectively taken samples.

>>2464380
actually they could you little retard.

Megadrive music is good because it actually sounds like video game music SNES is shit because fake orchestras and final fantasy music is shit. I wouldn't expect you to understand because you're a little faggot.

>>2464380
>just listen to it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSw1itRgWM

So much for >muh lifelike samples.

>>2464263
>neither of the main two Yamaha DACs could trick a channel into playing PCM.
>>2464250
>But it does have a PCM channel?
I didn't say it did. The sixth FM channel could be tricked into playing PCM data by using an 8 bit register via software, the YM2612 didn't natively support that.

>>2464393
Sorry, my mistake.

>>2464250
>>Earthbound, used a great deal of PCM samples
>Please don't make shit up
But it's true, Earthbound has samples from The Beatles, The Beach Boys, and more.

>>2464105
The reason the MD sound chip is better because you can modulate the sound over time in creative ways. You can design sounds from scratch. I don't know anything about SNES, but I do know that bad samples can make the music lifeless. The MD also has sampling and CD quality sound but not much memory, which is why Sega CD exists.

>>2464391
Shut your mouth, fatso. Tremble before the power of the SNES sound chip. You Genifags cower in shame and piss yourselves before TRUE POWER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGyr5BTOhGA

>>2464404
Shit, I just turned around to see if there was an actual brass band playing behind me. Capcom sure knew how to make music.

>>2464105
How the hell is the Genesis/SNES console war STILL going on?

>>2464413
Console wars are retro here too. ._.

>>2464105
I'm a Sega fanboy and understand the technical superiority of the SNES chip. It's better. Alot of games that got ports on both systems sound better on SNES. No doubt. It's techncially a better chip.

I still say the Sega Genesis/MD Model 1 Chip is legit and is where many of the best soundtracks of the 8 Bit era found their home.

Streets of Rage OST simply wouldn't sound like it does on the SNES. So many really good composers pulled so many insane things out of that tin sounding ass chip.

>>2464503
The SNES chip can't create FM synthesis, so it isn't a "better" chip. Just different. Flat out better is like to like. Such as the Playstation chip versus the SNES.

>>2464404
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGyr5BTOhGA


I see your SNESobery, and present not only the better soundtrack, but the better 'bup. You and your army of TWO ENEMIES ON SCREEN 2 CHARACTERS DERP cannot defeat the greatest the Genesis has to offer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrF3WPi_7uI

>>2464509
He was being facetious. The track he linked is awful.

>>2464124
Most/all of those were on the SNES so that really has nothing at all to do with the post you replied to.

On topic: The chip itself was better, but not a lot of people knew how to use it.

>>2464513
Couldn't tell. Sorry, I've met people who actually think Final Fight is better. Sorry, Max can suplex Mike Haggar's ass into China.

>>2464252
> the SNES plays incredibly low-fi samples

This is such an arbitrary criticism. It's a 1990 console. You may as well complain that it couldn't do 720p either.

>>2464556
TVs today cant do 240p.

>>2464560
I don't think you understood the post you're responding to

>>2464556
It isn't arbitrary. The reason why it doesn't often sound good is because they are low-fi samples. Similar to why early 3d is often hideous. The technology wasn't good enough for what they were trying to do.

In either case, the comparison isn't to modern technology, it is to alternate tech from the same era.

>>2464567
Alternate tech from the same era sounds no clearer; the Genesis certainly doesn't.

>The technology wasn't good enough for what they were trying to do.

It WASN'T trying to sound like perfect replicas of whatever it was sampling. It was simply a different way of generating sound.

>>2464328
Oh god SNES MK owners were robbed. That's terrible.

>>2464556
I hope you realize it's a terrible insult to say "this was good for the early 1990s" or something like that. As if today's stuff is so much better that 1990s can't even compare. It's the equivalent of saying "pretty good... for a girl". If you can't appreciate the SNES vs today's era games/music then don't bother trying to argue for it at all. What he said was perfectly valid. There's no adjusting goalposts "for the time", such a casual's idea of retro gaming.

>>2464603
Sound wise, yes, today's consoles are so much better than what 1990s consoles were capable of. I never said "it was good for the 90s;" I said that people's criticisms that it couldn't produce a higher quality sample aren't realistic given the time. There's a difference. Perhaps I should stoop to your level and call you a "casual" for not recognizing it.

> If you can't appreciate the SNES vs today's era games/music

I CAN. I DO I'm not the one arguing that it sounds like shit because it doesn't have studio quality samples.

>>2464413
Sega fanboys are still asspained over the Dreamcast. SNES fans just don't care.

>>2464613
In any event, I'm the anon who posted the first comment you replied to. I don't think the SNES sounds like "crap" (though the Capcom osts linked earlier certainly do). I've had my SNES for ages, and have always liked it. I think it sounds worse than the Genesis, which has a crisper, more pleasing synth sound. The Genesis isn't studio quality synth, either. It doesn't sound as good as Mass Effect 1 or Farcry Blood Dragon do, for sure.

Nothing on the SNES sounds as good as the best sounding MD games. Nothing on the SNES sounds as bad at the worst sounding (Western) MD games.

Mega Drive sound is all over the place in terms of quality whereas the SNES is consistently mediocre.

>>2464603
There's no reason not to use 48kHz uncompressed PCM on PS4/XBone. Unless the PCM is of SNES or Genesis audio, it can only sound better.

>>2464318
How does one get arcade music without all of the sound effects of playign the game?

>>2464660
Ways. People at VGMrips have been dumping arcade OSTs w/o SFX (.vgm format) for a while now, they have plenty of documentation their forum.

>>2464660
Extracted, no doubt.

I had a feeling that would be Turtles before I even clicked on it. Konami had the best music on any platform.

IF you really wanna see the SNES sound like ass, look no further than the inferior release of Ys III. I can't even find a copy of "Premonition" on it, but it is sure to be ass. Just like the rest of the soundtrack.

this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFVAGO-RTZE
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk-kaSEGT0U

for shits & giggles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5vc2zHJluQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvR2i1w1KUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoxUcRYpb70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsyJV_tPuJ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzU1qNyaMSw

>>2464105
Sega-fags try really hard to take anything that could be objectively better on the Genesis then the SNES and cling to it.

So they just parrot things they heard.

There are good games on the genesis, but at the end of the day, I firmly believe SNES is the superior console.

>>2464660
this
>>2464668

also service mode, sound test.

bad version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2ofKZkQuI

>>2464105
>megadrive has a better sound chip than snes

There's nothing on the SNES that sounds as good as Sonic 2, Streets of Rage, Battle Mania Daiginjou or Alien Soldier. I have no idea about the technical side of things but those games in particular just sound a million times better than that muffled SNES sound to my ears.

>>2464660
The same way all other game music is obtained?

>>2464615
>SNES fans just don't care.
>implying >>2464709 isn't on the verge of tears

>the SNES sounds too muffled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSW4M28XQg

You can hear the "grainy" sound of the low bitrate, though.

>>2464105
In the past few months, out of fucking nowhere, there has been a rash of "SNES sound is muddy and inferior to its competitors" spunk spewed on 4chan and it's spread like wildfire. It's not merely a coincidence that everyone had or formed the same opinion at the same time; the same damn language is parroted each and every time. OP likely wanted to start a troll thread, and was indeed successful. Go ahead and tell yourselves you're better than any other gaming board, though.

Strained to the limit, the Genesis chip will always sound better than the SNES chip. However, used poorly the Genesis sounds like a pile of fuck, whereas the SNES at the worst sounds "mediocre". The SNES is a much "safer" console in terms of sound, but because of this, some otherwise brilliant compositions are hampered by less-than-stellar audio quality.

When pushed to the limit, SNES can sound quite good (Plok), but compared to some of the greatest Genesis stuff (Streets of Rage 2) the difference is night and day. It's a more powerful and interesting soundchip that was, sadly, often underutilized or used lazily for multiplatforms when it can do so, so much more.

>>2464734
The butthurt in this post is palatable.

>>2464734
I enjoy and still own both consoles, but you have to admit SNES bg music on average sounds like mud with reverb added. For anything dealing with voice samples Genesis was terrible 9 times out of 10 though.

>>2464318
the SNES version sounds like ass it has WAY too much pop to it and not enough crunch like the arcade and genesis versions. It's fucking trash.

>>2464758
that youtube audio sounds like shit.
anyway tmnt 4 is one of the best ported ost ever.

>>2464709
I grew up with the SNES and became a genesis fanboy when I was about 20 years old because I decided I liked video game music more than an attempt at an orchestra. Stop talking out of your ass. You're just mad people are actually challenging your popular misguided opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH5g_dD5ri0 - Sounds extremely similar to the PC 88 version beautifully composed FM track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ajwlxiUyk this sounds like it was composed of samples repeated over and over it sounds like muffled shit. If you think this is better you are objectively retarded.

>>2464734
few months? Try years. As people have come to understand console hardware better, and as more games have been rediscovered (people finally moving away from playing the same 5 shitty genesis games they had/saw as a kid), the Genesis is starting to come out, at least in the West, as something far more respectable than years of internet masturbation over the SNES would have you believe.

It's 2015; the fact that people still say "Only Sonic sounds good" is a huge red flag that Sonic is the only game they ever played, if they even played it. I grew up with a Super Nintendo but I'm smart enough to actually download a couple of ROMs and see for myself what's what.

Japanese still love FM, which is why you still hear it in works by composers like Yosuke Yasui. The whole shitposting extravaganza can be put to rest (by you know, playing the games), but not as long as such extreme idiot nostalgia runs rampant.

>>2464761
no it still sounds like pop pop pop on the SNES instead of being crunchy like the original. I have both versions and the genesis soundtrack is FAAAAAR superior.

>>2464765
genesis sucks it doesn't have final fantasy, chrono trigger and earthbound the best games of all time.

I am fucking sick of hearing that myself, jrpg fans are such delusional faggots. I like the genre myself but they aren't the best games ever thats for sure

>>2464413
Console war never changes.

>>2464765
>Japanese still love FM
Patches programmed on Yamaha's synthesizers like the massively popular DX7 and TX were compatible with the YM2612, which certainly helped.

>>2464404
This is a joke right, final fight is one of the worst soundtracks on the SNES.

>>2464734
This. It's like how people started using the word "literally" every two sentences or whatever other nonsense is going on at the time. No truth or sense to it whatsoever, it's sad how vacant and superficial most people's "opinions" really are.

>>2464773
the PS1 RPGs are better than the SNES RPGs anyhow. But look at all those 256k colors per square pixel!

>>2464776
How else can you explain the groove?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB0r7MVfB0g

>>2464765
>few months? Try years.

I've browsed /vr/, and been a participant in the online game music community for nearly two decades, long enough to notice the sudden surge in one particular place. Again, it's not just the opinion that's popping up left and right, it's the very same rhetoric again and again. It's hard to believe people organically reached the same conclusion when they're all using the same terminology to describe it.

I've grown up with both systems, I love both systems, I love the sound each can produce. It's less about nostalgia and more about anons picking a side--manufacturing a side if necessary--and loving a good (terrible) fight. This much is clear given how frequently "lol yur butthurt" is the default retort.

>>2464556
When he says they're lofi, he means it. This is lofi by 1991 standards.
Much of the benefit of having

All the sample data currently being used in a track (and any sound effects) has to fit into 64kB of sound RAM. Oh, and the sound driver. Even if devs wanted better samples (and when you have larger ROMs like later in the systems life, this became an issue), they outright couldn't do it without complex sample streaming methods (like Star Ocean does, loading sample batches on the fly -- which is why many of its songs don't have proper SPC rips, since SPC files are just memory images of the sound RAM).

Samples are compressed as 4-bit ADPCM so you could fit a remotely decent number of samples into that tiny RAM area. This makes them sound pretty awful when played back unprocessed, so the SNES has a strong low-pass filter on its output to make the samples sound less aliased (this is where most of the characteristic muddiness comes from, the rest is from the overused reverb effect)

the Model 2 Genesis has a similar issue though, its filter is also strong as hell and really screws with the sound

>>2464750
a lot of the issue with Genesis PCM playback is that many drivers were written in a way that the sample gets interrupted during playback constantly (something to do with they way the Z80 and 68k compete over memory access if I recall), giving it a characteristic staccato fuzz

a poorly written driver will heavily influence the quality of sound coming from the machine

>>2464808
wow, where did my text go

>much of the benefit of having
should be
>much of the benefit of having samples disappears when they're so damn low quality

>>2464517
I prefer Genesis and i genuinely think Final Fight is better than any SoR, the arcade version tho.

>>2464814
Them's fightin words m8

I like both

>>2464668
>.vgm
nice of them to come up with another bullshit format, with even less titles ripped while formats have existed since forever

>>2464808
No one's arguing this isn't true. Does the music sound terrible as a result? No. Does it sound noticeably worse than its competitors? No.

>>2464727
That's emulation though? I think emulators play at 44khz, real SNES is 32khz max.

Plok is still impressive, too bad not many developers were as clean as Follin on the SNES.

>>2464105
Listen, PCM and FM synth are two completely different ways to generate sound. Any cross platform game is going to have subpar music on one platform or another because frankly companies aren't going to spend tons of money on bringing out the best of both.

Think of it like this: The SNES is better at emulating instruments, while the Genesis is an instrument.

If the OST wasn't produced on Genesis, then the port is going to suffer in the sound department as you've noticed in ZAMN.

Both are great audio machines in the right hands, although not many people have two right hands.

I never liked the generic SNES type of sound as much as FM synth and have been vocal in favor of Yamaha chip music for a while, not getting the feeling I'm talking this way out of reaction.

>>2464391
I love how he didn't have a rebuttal for this.

>>2464391
>so much for >muh lifelike samples

NO ONE IS SAYING THIS. People who like the SNES sound are not claiming it is the pinnacle of clarity, so you can't really throw "ha, so much for lifelike" back at them; it wasn't thrown at you in the first place.

>>2465209
you're telling me that sounds "objectively superior" to the genesis. Get the fuck outta here fanboy cause that is what people are saying.

>>2465215

First of all, "objectively superior" and "lifelike sounds" do not mean the same thing. Second, no, I'm not, friend. I'm new to this conversation. But check you out, putting words in my mouth and then attempting to shut me down for it. Try again.

>>2465225
I'm not saying you specifically sorry I meant the tone of this thread in general.

ITT: two sound chips that sound worse than either the NES or a Commodore 64 about 95% of the time

Only morons think the genesis Yamaha fm synth driven by a Z80 is superior. At best it was capable of Adlib quality fm with shitty 8 bit single voice mono sample playback (in hardware).

The SNES audio was a complex DSP driven by a more powerful than Z80 8 bit CPU. It was capable of Sound Canvas grade wavetable synthesis as well as multichannel stereo 16bit sample playback with filters all in hardware.

It doesn't matter which system you liked more, the SNES was objectively more powerful in many ways, including audio.

>grown men arguing over the way 25 year old video game consoles sound
Who gives a fuck? Neo-Geo shits on both anyway.

>>2465278
Bullshit, you don't know what you're talking about. >>2465286
Same generation, genius.

>>2465284
>16-bit sample
Yeah, I dev SNES and that ain't true. You get a 4-bit order of magnitude shift field for every 16 samples, and although the samples are encoded with 4-bits, the LSB gets dropped during decode, making the samples effectively 3-bit. It's pathetic that literally 1/4 of your sample's memory is effectively squandered.

Also the SPC700 is an 8-bit CPU like the Z80, and the only feature intrinsic to the SPC700 that is an added bonus for audio is the multiply instruction, which I see get bypassed for a fixed point multiplication program in applications.

That said, I love them both for their own distinct reasons.

>>2465287
>still this pissy
I will pray for you

>>2465284
You are retarded, adlib used a very different kind of synthesis to the one on the Genesis, because it was based on the very old YM3812 used in mid 80s games like Ghosts 'n Goblins. The Genesis used a more modern FM synth based on a slightly downgraded YM2151 which was still used in many arcades from the 90s (some of the best example being Dogyuun and Batlle Garegga)

Also, using samples doesn't mean shit if you rely on very compressed low storage samples.

>>2465284
Nobody is saying the hardware is superior were all saying the genesis has nicer sound. You can brag about how much more advanced your hardware is all you want it still sounds like shit.

>>2465287
>Bullshit, you don't know what you're talking about.
I think you don't know what I'm talking about. Should I use smaller words?

>>2465286
Just fuck off and never post here again. Your brilliant insight and sarcasm really isn't a good thing here.

Why does it matter than it's 25 years old? I mean wtf, why are you even on this board if you consider arguing about current games to be superior to arguing about past games.

I mean it, you really, really are not being helpful, or smart, or witty, or any of that shit you're telling yourself and should just go away. You sound like you're barely an adult yourself. "grown adults"... man the idiots around this place.

>>2464105
I can do the same thing you cherry picking faggot.

https://youtu.be/Glr4eldvneI

https://youtu.be/fXfGEgLfO-k

pooper nintendo amirite?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ajwlxiUyk - pretty good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH5g_dD5ri0 - pretty fucking amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPH9qZ8yvLI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-WcjYIup8U over 9000 times better. No contest.

Super nintendo sucks guys despite what the people who call us contrarians for they themselves are contrarian for being so ignorant to the truth. :^)

>>2465338
>He can cherry pick
>I can cherry pick too
>but my cherry picking counts for more, I win

>>2465342
Anon, it's called a parody. The last sentence makes it pretty clear.

>>2465342
zombies ate my neighbours was a lucasarts game konami only released it if konami had actually composed the music for the genesis it would have been pretty fucking amazing like most their other titles. Thats why zombies ate my dong doesnt count

>>2465347
When you start deciding which games do and don't count as it suits your argument, your input doesn't count.

SNES has great music. Genesis has great music. That's all that really counts.

>>2465352
that's the point I was making I just didn't put the smug face at the end of the second post I am sorry. People who actually think the SNES was "objectively" superior are just biased. As soon as you say that though they think that means you think the genesis is superior and not that they were both very different machines and it's impossible to compare the two. F-zero and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest have some of the best vidya music of all time, but I don't think either of their soundtracks are as good as streets of rage 1 or 2 or revenge of shinobi or Ys3. Yuzo did an awesome job on actrasier but I honestly think it would have sounded better on a more traditional FM synth he was used to. In the end they are both great and its only opinion Streets of Rage I think proves genesis music can be just as advanced as SNES music.

>>2464105
There are plenty of people who have a great guitar and can't play as well as some guy on the street.

>>2465320
Ask yourself which one of has actually met Jeroen Tel and has worked on C64 remakes published in a UK gaming mag. It ain't you, scrub. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I love me some SID but a large amount of C64 music was bland bleepy bloody shit and NES was even worse with its library of derivative shovelware.

>>2465557
>Ask yourself which one of has actually met Jeroen Tel and has worked on C64 remakes published in a UK gaming mag
*golf clap*

>You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
An unrepentant idiot. OK, whatever makes you feel better about yourself - I'm sure you don't have much to be proud of, if the above is anything to go off

>>2465338
I wasn't cherry picking I was just making a example, no need for names

>>2466114
look at my example of the genesis shitting all over your SNES though. your example is cherry picked and so was mine. Stop being retarded

>>2464734
wasn't trying to do that i just always heard that the mega drive had a better sound chip, then i finally got a MD and most games sound terrible

>>2466137
nope making a example, sorry and really resorting to name calling really helps your argument

>>2464734
>In the past few months, out of fucking nowhere, there has been a rash of "SNES sound is muddy and inferior to its competitors" spunk spewed on 4chan and it's spread like wildfire
>Out of nowhere
Except it's not some bullshit opinion based on falsehood, it's a goddamn fact. SNES audio is based off of samples. It's hard to cram a high quality sample in such a small cart, so it's a lower quality sample to save space. Add onto the fact that the sound chip filters the audio and you get something that's muddy. This isn't an opinion, it's fact. And the only reason it SEEMS like all of a sudden people are having this opinion is because you only browsed retro websites where people jerk off over the SNES and nintendo like all the other fucking retro websites and then you come here and get a dose of reality and think it's some manufactured opinion. Sorry boyo because it isn't

>SNES sound
Sax samples all over the fucking place, muddy 'orchestral' music

>Genesis sound
Rough electric guitar sounds, heavy bass

>>2464105
Let me give you a simple comparison

SNES = beat machine
Genesis = drum set

The SNES was easier to use but very limited and the quality ceiling was lower. The Genesis required knowing what the fuck you were doing and had great potential, but was terrible if you were clueless.

SNES overall sounds better. (whether the chip itself was better or people knew how to better utilize it doesn't matter too much. The end product is what matters)

But SoR2 has the best 16-bit music, period.

There are examples of fantastic and shitty music from both consoles. What mattered was how good the composer was. A good composer could take a shitty sound chip and make something fantastic with it.

This is just another shitty extension of the old and tired console war.

>>2466175
>The end product is what matters
Which is why the genesis was superior. The best music on the genesis blows the fuck out of SNES stuff.

>>2466183
Aside from SoR2 and a handful of songs from the Sonic games, I disagree.

>>2466197
Not to beat a dead horse, but how many genesis games have you played outside of SoR2 and Sonic?

I'm not going to linkspam, but I encourage you to listen to some tracks from Thunder Force IV, Devlish/Bad Omen, Castlevania Bloodlines, or Alisia Dragoon. It makes the Sonic games sound childish in comparison.

There's more to the system than the couple of games you can downloaded from Wii VC.

>>2466215
Admittedly, I've only played Thunder Force IV from that list. I have played plenty of Genesis games though. Enough to form an opinion at least.

Obviously, I haven't heard everything. I'll look up some music from those games.

>>2466197
So you admit the Genesis had better sound. Okay. Plus, it's like what this guy said >>2466215
I'll also add games like Rocket Knight Adventures/Sparkster (just compare them to their SNES counterpart), Crusader of Centy, Aladdin, Phantasy Star, Shinobi II/III, Monster World, Gunstar Heroes etc.

Unfortunately, a lot of multiplats were made for the SNES first so the Genesis would get lazy ports.

>>2466231
I'm not saying the Genesis had better sound, I'm saying the music in SoR2 sounds better.

I'm really not arguing which has the better sound chip. That could very well be the Genesis. But like any hardware, it doesn't matter how good it is if developers don't fully utilize it.

It's up to the composers to make it sound good, and just from my experience, the SNES has overall better soundtracks, with only a handful of Genesis games matching them.

>>2466240
The Genesis is objectively better from a technical perspective, and I would say it was used to much greater effect than the SNES.

>>2466142
so because I said some mean words that invalidates my point. You sound like a liberal.

The fact that there's even a debate is completely stupid. You're comparing compressed samples to FM synthesis. It's apples and oranges. To say that one sounds objectively better than the other is completely fucking stupid. The only thing that matters is the skill level of the musician/sound engineer/programmer.

A more valid comparison would be to measure the S-SMP/SPC700 against other PCM based chips, or the YM2612 with other FM synth chips like those found on loads of arcade PCBs (many of which were in Yamaha's YM family). I understand people compare the two as the systems themselves were prime competitors, but it's still absurdly stupid.

There are games on both systems that sound fantastic, and plenty of games on both that sound like complete ass. Stop fucking debating this.

>>2466157
SNES music is based off wavetable, not "samples" in the way you're trying to use pejoratively. The S-SMP dealt in blips of sampled audio, instrument notes, not fucking whole songs. And it did so in 8 and 16 bitwidth @ 32kHz - easily beating out competitive pc Sound cards like the Sound Blaster Pro and some professional sampling synths. It even gave the Amiga a run for its money - there were a few games ported from that machine whose mod soundtracks sounded better and more clearly defined on the SNES. The Chaos Engine is just one example. GODS, another.

And then there's all the classics from Capcom, Square, Nintendo themselves and so on.

In no way was Genesis FM synth better, it only felt that to kids.

>>2466707
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>Capcom
>Good super nintendo music

Capcom made some of the most reverb ridden shit ever to grace the console, just shut your fucking fanboy mouth your knuckle dragging retard. Doesn't matter if something is more advanced if it sounds like shit.

"Better than soundblaster"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUoULTeQyoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgQIqxyjwYA

Yah okay the SNES is alright makes you want to shoot some demons whatever. The shittiest version on PC (ad-lib) still blows it out of the water it makes you want to shoot demons until you run out of bullets and beat them to a pulp with your bare hands.

SNES fanboys confirmed for biased faggot retards.

>>2466707
>Capcom
All of which sounded like shit compared to the FM originals.

SNES:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0kH4LP_7QQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YbBOZNtRpU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbNu9FgS2-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pvW0oq4m6Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMm7M2EhLRs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR3SGeAKdMc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQw-a8sApLQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyi2-_R35C0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYp7WDDkFNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGPmiCztiTY

Meanwhile the Genesis actually did justice to arcade soundtracks like that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzS7DwVcsus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMZ9V1QX1ko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xSnPyfQsCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQw-a8sApLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwYerD94V70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg1yD4zYls0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnqCq96bll0
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/default/files/sounds/Forgottenworlds.mp3


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyCcaPYrY_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b650kFE3bSw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3PZGM_UOBk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyKeMSbQYH4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9fC7V9c42c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8CKjUYkdzM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF8u38wMBNE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTKjx92LRNo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51RUDpEd6zw
https://youtu.be/QvPxoYypjtw?t=1534

>>2464118
ristar is a bad game and the music was godawful.

>>2466840

are u ok

>>2466889
BUSTAH WOLF

>>2466854
What does it feel like to hate fun?

Genuinely curious.

Anyone who thinks the Mega Drive sound chip was shit should go to this thread and listen to the tracks posted there.

>>2446316

The SNES and Mega Drive sound chips were both good, but in different categories. I love the Mega Drive sound chip, it has such a distinct sound you can recognize instantly.

>>2466929
so does the SNES all the reverb makes it sound like everything was recorded in an empty room with a microphone on the other side of the room from a tape deck that isn't a bad thing necessarily either cause some games make awesome use of that effect like donkey kong country.

This is my favorite thing on the Genesis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNWqR5zjVgI

>>2466852
Capcom SNES soundtracks are often so horrid that its easier to find ones that don't suck. And yes, even Megaman X has a wretched soundfont.

Here's some good tracks though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOr1--cpYts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gzIuqLUFUo

>>2467085
King of Dragons is the rare exception that sounds good and somewhat faithful to the arcade.

SSF2 is ok, but the arcade of that game used QSound.

>>2467093
Funny thing is that the X68000 used the YM2151, same chip as CPS1, and the music sounds way better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hiUSs64Rs

I wish a decent rip of this version existed but it's hard to find anything but Hyper's CPS1 versions, which were taken from the X68000, of Super's characters' themes.

MD had a good sound chip? Compare Doom 2 on Snes to MD, learn why Snes has a better sound chip.

>>2467132
because of a shitty rushed port?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brBQVcf37Xc

this is what it could have sounded like if they let this guy do the music.

>>2467165
>responding to a troll.

Doom 2 isn't on either console, and there's no Doom game on the Mega Drive.

>>2467165
Not that guy, buy let's be real, that still sounds like ass, especially compared to the original.

It just sounds like less ass than the SNES version.

>>2467179
>the original

erm,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeYrx9hO41M

It sounded like whatever your PC sound card sounded like. Which is probably a lot worse than what he posted.

>>2467183
I hardly think that's a fair comparison.

>>2467193
Maybe not, but I had an AWE32 at one point.

PC music didn't sound nearly as good as you think it did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgQIqxyjwYA

>>2467198
You're logic is literally
>I had a shit sound card so PC music was shit

Which is obviously flawed.

If I went and played Doom on Steam right now, I would not hear either of those. And since it's emulated through dosbox, it's not using any modern hardware.

>>2464105
People who say the Genesis has a better sound chip are lying their asses off. It may be better in some really obscure technical way or other than no one with a fucking set of ears gives a fuck about (like extra channels or some shit) but the fucking thing always had tinny sounding psudo 8-bit sounds shitting out of it.

It's got THE worst sound chip of any 16 bit console.

>>2467209
You're retarded. The AWE32 is a more expensive card than the SB16, which is what the steam version uses.

This is what you'd hear in Steam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFDKg7GHCnk

SC-88 ftw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9_k7fogR5A
\m/

>>2466336
no but im less likely to take your opinion on board because you insulated me, doesn't make your argument invalid just makes you sound like a jackass

>>2464112
>>2464118
Don't forget Monster World III and IV.

>>2467460
>because you insulated me
What did he insulate you with? His dick?

>>2469682
sorry wrong spelling insulted, you can give me shit about that.

>>2466854
This board is officially ruined