/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1933027
>also don't discuss this game or it's moral choices here, /vr/ is a slow board and we can't have it moving

I too wish we could get some feminist rage threads going to speed up /vr/, it's EXACTLY what this board needs

Stop triggering the janitor.

>>1933034
The other thread had some reasonably nuanced discussion until people started shitting it up near the end.

>>1933036
It was more like halfway through that it started going to shit before becoming entirely shit 3/4 of the way through.

It didn't help that the OP wasn't so much "let's discuss the morality of choices available to the player in fallout 2" and instead "WHY IS RAPE IN THIS GAME?"

>>1933043
>"WHY IS RAPE IN THIS GAME?"

because what happens in new reno stays in new reno

>>1933049
That particular instance didn't happen in New Reno though.

Shit anon get it together.

>>1933049
I never played this, does 1 has it too?

I sure can make some time for this.

>>1933441
1 is a much better game.

Looking to get into the original fallout games, myself. I hear a lot about to but was planning one playing 1 first. Is it worth playing chronologically? Should I skip any of the games altogether?

>>1933027
>BEST GAME EVER?
Well, for what it's worth anon, you just met a kindred spirit. Going on 15 years waiting for something better. Oh well.

>>1933664
>chronologically?
Yes. There's no point playing 2 before 1.

>Skip?
Tic-tacs is fun enough, but it's not a real Fallout game. Kinda like Oblivion with guns.

>>1933051
You can rape in Vault City, New Reno, and be raped in Broken Hills. You can also sneak lit dynamite into little kids' inventory. Oh, and you can sell people in literal slavery.

There's lots of reprehensible shit to do in Fallout 2 and I don't see how this is a problem.

>>1933684
Good to know!
Though I shamefully admit 3 and NV were my introduction to the series.

I like how you can beat the game without causing a panic, using super health packs.

>>1933027
>BEST GAME EVER
>Turn-based
>Time limit
>Random encounters
>Broken/useless skills & perks

I wish Van Buren had come out with it's ATB-like battle system.

It's in my top RPGs of all time, just under Ultima 7 and Serpent. Honestly in terms of what it does it's superior in every way to pretty much everything out there before and since. Others like Arcanum or Planescape are at least as good on one aspect or another, but FO2 just gets it all right.

After playing it I remember trying to find others like it, but Fallout Tactics was not good, and not many games really tried to emulate it. The 3D games were just not really sequels in my opinion. They may as well have been called something like Fallout Adventure or Fallout East or some other spinoff name.

I think it will take an indie dev to create a new series in this style to ever see a return to that type of game. People without much interest in games beyond their twitch and grind tastes have all but moved on already from their COD, FONV, ME3 and so on. The people who remain loyal still get ignored or told to move on and accept that this got better.

>>1933709
Time limit really isn't a big deal. You may feel pressured in the beginning but it really doesn't fuck you over like you think when you first start. Also you can download a patch to remove the time limit.

>useless skills
It doesn't have swimming skills like in Deus Ex so...

>>1933709
>Fallout 2
>time limit

>>1933735
Isn't there a time limit? It's just a very long one.

>>1933027

>BEST GAME EVER?

That's not Do Sex.

>>1933693
You could also sell people into slavery in 3, but the rape is definitely unique.

>>1933735
>>1933741

13 years.

>>1933702

There's no shame unless you think Fallout 3 is best.

Is there anything more bland than Fallout Tactics?

>>1933719

>I think it will take an indie dev to create a new series in this style to ever see a return to that type of game.

Don't tell me you haven't heard of Wasteland 2 yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ybqEPMiCtg

>>1933750
That can't be real.

Even when I was a little kid and I played Fallout 2 for the first time, I tried a bit harder.

And I didn't even speak english properly at the time.

>>1933760

Anon, I...

>>1933774
I'm >>1933760

I'm only 23 years old. I grew up with a Super Nintendo. I don't think I'm a special snowflake or "hardcoar gamur" for liking fallout 1 and 2. Goddamit, my attention span is tiny as fuck, but I still can enjoy these game's atmosphere, dialog and lore. And I can feel the love those folks at Black Isle put into making those games.

I can't believe those fucking comments, Those have to be trolls.

>"...and the super nintendo graphics are giving me an ulcer"

I just...no.

>>1933745

>in modoc
>find karl and tell him to go back to modoc
>they all kill the slags anyway
What the fuck? Is this because of the restoration project?

>>1933807

They're not trolls. These people are frighteningly serious. This is what /v/ pictures when they rag on "fucking casuals."

The "Final Fantasy started at 7" comment is kinda funny, though. It's just so oblivious.

>>1934568

You were given a total time frame of 30 days to investigate the farm, find Karl, get Karl sent home, and work out a deal between the Ghost Farm and Modoc. They won't recognize Karl's return until you get there, so you may have run out of time on the way there. Or maybe you said something wrong. I have the FO2RP and the quest worked the same as in vanilla FO2.

>>1934579
I did all of that, though. I even investigated the fake bodies at the farm.

>>1934581

Hm. Did you run out of time? The RP changes your world map travel speed and as such I find that time gets cut pretty close by the time I finish the quest, so if you wasted time or dilly-dallied then it may have run out.

I just couldn't deal with Fallout 1 and 2.

The Ultima series, Wizardry series, M&M, Jagged Alliance, Rogue/Nethack. No problems. But there's something about the Fallout games that stops me from getting in to them.

>>1934590

>plays Rogue/Nethack
>can't into Fallout

I honestly don't even. Maybe you're not into post-post apocalypse Sci-Fi? I can't even play Oblivion or Skyrim because I honestly just can't get into fantasy settings and I'm also deathly afraid of spiders, but that's secondary.

>>1934589
Well it's true that I did run into a lot of encounters, maybe that affected it.

>>1934594

Encounters don't pass the time significantly unless you, say, rested there to restore HP, which is something I do when not pressed for time. When in an area, the timescale is realtime, so unless you rest you probably won't even spend a half hour in any given place but the Oil Rig or some such.

>>1934593
Oblivion and Skyrim have painfully generic settings so I can definitely see where you're coming from.

>>1934609

Well, they're reportedly the easiest to get into and the most casual, but I just can't deal with fantasy in general. I don't even know why. I just have a chronic inability to take fantasy settings seriously, so they bore me to tears if they're not meant to be a laugh fest.

>>1934626
They're the best option if you don't like RPGs and or have never played one before.

>>1933684
FT is the Icewind Dale to Baldur's Gate. It's not bad, but it's not an RPG. Personally, I would've liked if they kept developing it as a side series, sometimes it's just fun to jump into combat in Fallout.

>>1934635

Well, see, I do like RPGs. I figured I could at least kill some time with Skyrim back when it came out, so I rented it for PS3. Just a constant bore, and I even enjoyed Fallout 3. I later tried Oblivion when my brother got it on 360, and it was just a bore. I even had trouble getting into Arcanum even though I like Steampunk.

>>1934646
Oblivion being a bore is an understatement.

>>1934665

Surely it's no worse than Fallout 3? People called it "Oblivion with guns" for a reason, I'm sure, and it wasn't just the models and animations.

>>1934673
The only good thing about Oblivion was the Dark Brotherhood and Shivering Isles. I'm not saying Fallout 3 was a masterpiece but compared to Oblivion it...well it was certainly better.

>>1934685

Hm, I guess I didn't miss out. As I said earlier, I know Fallout 3 was mediocre at best, but it was at least enjoyable for what it is. Although, if Oblivion is worse than that, I can't imagine how anyone played it. FO3 was barely playable.

>>1934665
I played Oblivion for the first time last year. Played it all the way through, with all expansions.

It was so boring I was in pain. The world is unbelievably bland, the NPCs are lifeless, and the enemies are meat shields. At level 20, even if you min-max with the Umbra Sword, you'll still be whacking away at every foe over and over. The leveling system is also a convoluted disaster... it's seriously the worst in any RPG I have ever played.

Is it recommended to play Wasteland before Fallout 1?

>>1934740

No. Wasteland is unconnected to Fallout minus a couple of small references, plus it's incredibly archaic and hard to get into.

>>1934748

Yeah I tried playing it a couple times and that was the impression I got.

Thanks.

>>1933027
As a pleb who has only played fallout 3, can anyone give me advice on how not to totally fuck up playing 1 and 2?

I got a bit lost early in 1 the last time I played it, but that was a year or two ago and wasn't really a genuine attempt.

>>1934796

>FO1

Get the unofficial patch (FIXT).

Don't bother with the rats in the cave.

Don't start with less than 10 AGL.

Don't neglect your combat skills.

Bullshitting people with speech is not as effective as in 2.

Don't insult people or they will hate you.

If you solve the Necropolis situation but don't kill the mutants, they kill everyone in 30 days.

The Glow is a nice place and there is nothing wrong with it at all. It's been 80 whole years since that direct nuclear strike. Chess is a great idea.

Several skills are useless or very close to it.

The level cap is 24, and that perk is going to be Sniper or that melee one. Plan for it.

>FO2

Get the unofficial patch (FO2UP).

You can run through most of the ToT.

Don't start with less than 10 AGL.

Random encounters and critical hits are the bane of your existence. Save often.

Tag Speech unless you're retarded (INT <4).

Skills go to 300%, but you'll do well starting at 100 up.

The max level is 99. Want a perk? Grind. You've got all the time in the world (13 in-game years).

Enclave don't fuck around. Prepare your anus.

Don't put points in useless skills.

Do not run out of gas over a town square.

Your trunk holds infinite weight, but NOT infinite space. Always carry weightless items.

Lynette is a mega-cunt. Sweet-talk her all day erry day or you're kicked out and/or dead.

You can stealth-kill people with super stims.

Chop shops still exist.

Little shits steal your shit in a shithole.

>>1933709
Turn-based combat is awesome although FO1&2's is bad.

But yeah Fallout 1 and 2 are poorly balanced and have a bunch of trash options

>>1933719
FO2 doesn't get it all right since it's poorly balanced and has bad combat.

>>1934590
Maybe you value good combat in RPGs.Combat and balance are Fallout's biggest problems.

>>1934646
>enjoying Fallout 3

>>1934890

>poorly balanced

Not very. Some things are disadvantaged, certainly, but nothing is overtly overpowered. A laser minigun will RIP AND TEAR, but it's not even normally found until the late game and you'll be quite disadvantaged specializing in big guns.

I have heard that unarmed is overtly overpowered, though I can't personally confirm.

>bad combat

Pfft, no. It has pretty damned good combat for an isometric RPG. It's not clunky, it's not hard to figure out, it works well. If you think this is bad combat, you must be coming from something like Jagged Alliance and have never played Arcanum or Planescape.

>>1934896

I had fun, largely through dicking around and playing with mods, though I did enjoy a once over in the vanilla game. If you pretend it's not a Fallout game, it's just mediocre. It has many flaws, but half of them are it being called "Fallout" when it's really just not Fallout.

The story is also pretty stupid, but you can ignore that shit for a good while.

>>1933709
I've never really thought of the time limit as a bad thing, it just creates a sense of urgency and meaning. It isn't like you can't extend the limit anyway.

>>1934929

He's talking about Fallout 2, and the time limit for that is 13 years. Only Fallout 1's was pressing to any degree.

>>1933753
The combat is nice but the game is kinda soulless. The devs got fucked, they planned a lot more than what they ended up finishing.

>>1934626
Morrowind has an interesting take on fantasy. It's essentially an alien world, with only some european middle ages thrown in there. There's a lot of racist muslim elves living in mushrooms.

>>1933774
I'm pretty sure that Final Fantasy comment is at least a joke.
Right?

>>1935532
>european middle ages
And I'd say that's only there to provide stark contrast between the culture of the Empire and the Dunmer

>>1935539

Nope.

He's probably 13, though, so it's kinda forgiveable.

>>1933027
How big is the gap compared to 1 ? I dropped Fallout 3 after leaving the vault and Fallout 1 after acquiring the water chip and running around randomly a bit after. Both games didn't seem too captivating so I'm thinking that this franchise isn't my cup of tea but if Fallout 2 is significantly better I might as well give it a try too.

>>1935713

Fallout 2 is a lot larger with more things to do, more humour, more dicking around. The story is there, but you're not going to notice it for thalf the game. It basically says "Okay, find Vault 13, get a GECK. Good fucking luck, kiddo."

>>1935713
If the "running around randomly" part was a problem then you'll probably dislike Fallout 2. It's more open-world than Fallout 1.

I've played Fallout 2 before and now I'm trying to complete the Jonny quest. I think I locked myself out of it, because I told Balthas that he's alive and all I can do with Jonny now is imply I'm a child molester.

>>1936201

I think you can't complete it if you didn't tell Johnny his Dad's correct name. You're supposed to get the option to ask What's-His-Name if Johnny can go home and he and his cronies will escort you to take Johnny home.

>>1934875
>Lynette is a mega-cunt. Sweet-talk her all day erry day or you're kicked out and/or dead.

Fucking Lynette.

Her voice actor did a great job tho.

>>1936691

>Her voice actor did a great job tho.

She really did. Mad props for that, but GOD her character is such a cunt.

I want to try the older Fallout games, but I'm way turned off by all the stories I hear of people getting fucked by RNG and dying to rats in the first area.

>>1936713
> I hear of people getting fucked by RNG and dying to rats in the first area.

All lies anon, you don't even have to face more than 2 or 3 rats in the first area.

You're missing a great game, especially if you like RPGs.

>>1936625
It won't let me do that either. All I can say to the Vegeir guy is "goodbye".

>>1936713

Only fools stop and fight the rats.

But yeah, sometimes you're unlucky enough to get hit by a critical hit for lots of damage that bypasses armor. That's why you don't have less than 5 Luck.

But it's not so bad. Usually, the criticals will kill you when you were already in over your head.

>>1936728

I don't know what to tell you. Bug, maybe? Or maybe you borked it up?

>>1936739
It's an easy quest to fuck up, my money's on that.

>>1936758

Read up on the Fallout wiki to see if you can find the problem.

>>1933774
for some reason the most stupid thing for me is that they hate the graphics of Fallout 1 and 2 and love 3

>>1937061

Yeah, tell me about it.

>those fucking faces
>those fucking animations

These are probably people that would have thought Quake's low poly, low res 3D models were better than DOOM's pixel art if they had been around back then as anything other than an infant or a sperm cell.

>>1934590
shitty combat, also fallout environment it doesnt look like post nuclear war world that much and nothing like Pripyat and Chernobyl, if you want real and satisfying post apocalyptic settings play S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

>>1937421
The interface is awful too.

And although this is entirely subjective I hate the graphics style.

>>1937421
>also fallout environment it doesnt look like post nuclear war world that much and nothing like Pripyat and Chernobyl

It's not supposed to. It's a post-post apocalypse game. It's not about people surviving right after the bombs dropped, it's about how people get along live long after the big catastrophe, when they start trying to rebuild society.

And the combat is not shitty. It works quite well. The only reason to dislike it is if you dislike RPG combat.

>>1937429

The interface is not /terrible/, but it is a hassle in Fallout. Fallout 2 largely alleviates said complaints, though, but the primary issue was the inventory. Everything else is fairly straightforward.

>>1938067
>It's not supposed to. It's a post-post apocalypse game
yeah no... you should have missed the catchphrase "a post nuclear role playing game" its just... written there... on a fucking COVER

>it's about how people get along live long after the big catastrophe
so all of these big cities, skyscrapers, suburban areas are just gone, because world in the game looks like it was completely wiped from the face of the earth with maybe only few remains of the buildings still standing and with inhabitants that build new settlements from the scratch using adobe, bricks and fragments... its such a bullshit.
When you enter in San Fransisco you expect a huge devastated ghost town with a size 5-10 times larger then any place left in the game instead you got few buildings on a town which apparently was whipped into complete dust, it is so disappointing.

>when they start trying to rebuild society.
very rarely in the game when doing quests I got this feeling that Im really living in post apocalyptic world in where people are really struggling to survive and rebuild society. Most of the quest involved boring shit you couldnt tell if its was made it unique post apocalyptic world or any generic present times rpg or any other game, like
>sabotage the still of the competing bar
>steal the plans from some base for the people both of which you never really cared about
>raid a dungeon
>involve yourself in stupid gang/organization wars with generic crime bosses and leaders
>get the parts - pass the science/repair/speech checks
although fallout settings are unique quests are really generic and formula based

>>1938067
>And the combat is not shitty. It works quite well
yeah the combat is shitty I hate to break it to you
whole tactics in the game boils down to shotting thing until its dead, most of the combat success depends on picking the rights perks and distributing points in the right stats during character creation which is not very challenging to do and if you even encounter harder enemies the only likely strategy is to level up with methods that are acceptable to your current level.
The fact that companions are pretty much worthless and sometimes even pain in the ass doesnt help either

> The only reason to dislike it is if you dislike RPG combat.
get a load of this nigger.jpg
you probably never really played real RPG games like golden box games, temple of elemental evil, wizardry games, knights of the chalice, baldurs gate, jagged alliance 2, icewind dale 1&2 these games involve real strategy and real tactics, even might and magic combat is more deep and challenging then fallout, because one thing: you still got the direct control of your party members

>>1938397
>quests are really generic and formula based
Exhibit A for shitpost

>The fact that companions are pretty much worthless
Exhibit B

What the hell is with all these idiots in /vr lately?

>>1938397

Well, first off, you don't understand 2 things. First, you don't seem to understand tech, time, and budget limitations. Second, you don't visit every single square foot of the city, you only go to the relevant area. A shame, certainly, but go back to the previous point.

>quests are generic

The world isn't going to reinvent itself 100% just because the bombs dropped. You're still going to have petty squabbles and basic shit that needs doing.

>very rarely in the game when doing quests I got this feeling that Im really living in post apocalyptic world in where people are really struggling to survive and rebuild society.

I guess you didn't play very much, then, or you just skimmed through conversations. The atmosphere is there, but if you don't breathe it in then you'll never feel it.

>yeah no... you should have missed the catchphrase "a post nuclear role playing game" its just... written there... on a fucking COVER

"Post-nuclear" could be any time frame after the bombs dropped. Tim Cain himself said the game is about life after the post-apocalypse.

>>1938404

It's not a tactical combat system, it's an RPG combat system. It's not about tactics, it's about dice rolls and skill checks. Fallout's combat is more towards the tabletop end of the RPG spectrum.

>The fact that companions are pretty much worthless and sometimes even pain in the ass doesnt help either

That's only in Fallout, not Fallout 2.

>you still got the direct control of your party members

Fallout is not a party-based RPG. You are clearly more into that, but Fallout isn't bad because it's not party-based.

>get a load of this nigger.jpg

Good lord, just go back to /v/ already. We don't want your shitposting here.

>>1933747
Rape is an hour and a half. Yeah, there's emotional trauma, but at least you're free.

Slavery is a lifetime, and nobody gives a shit about how much emotional trauma you get as a slave.

>>1938397
>so all of these big cities, skyscrapers, suburban areas are just gone, because world in the game looks like it was completely wiped from the face of the earth with maybe only few remains of the buildings still standing and with inhabitants that build new settlements from the scratch using adobe, bricks and fragments... its such a bullshit.


What the fuck do you think nukes do?

This, Hiroshima, was equivalent to 16 kilotons of TNT.

The thermonuclear devices they undoubtedly had before the Great War were in the megaton range (the largest device in our timeline ever tested was 50 megatons, and could go up to 100 megatons if desired).

Nukes don't leave behind ghost towns. The tiniest ones may leave a few reinforced concrete buildings behind, like the ones in this shot, but the megaton range nukes would leave nothing behind but scorched wasteland and rubble.

>>1937421
Are you that faggot that got completely laughed out of several Fallout 2 threads for complaining that the post-apocalyptic wasteland was boring to trudge through because it was full of nothing in particular?

I hate how the enclave pretty much never miss in Fallout 2. Even at 99 AC, they don't seem to have a problem hitting you from midrange.

Try this out yourself: postgame, get HtH Evade with 300% unarmed, 10 agi, 12 action points, dodger, and advanced power armor mk2.

25 + 10 + 24 + 5 + 35 = 99AC.

For hilarious comparison, try this vs early/midgame bandits

>>1937421
Chernobyl was a reactor meltdown.

>He honestly thinks nuclear reactors explode like nuclear weapons do

This board gets worse every single day.

Is Fallout 2 really the only non-h game where the player can rape someone?

>>1939353
Wait, remind me where and who exactly can you rape in Fallout 2? I only remember being raped. By an alarmingly large green fellow.

>>1939361
Your potential future wife.

>>1939370
If I recall correctly, she's the one coming on to the pc. And nothing happens.

>>1939373
>If I recall correctly

You aren't; not fully, anyway.

>>1933027
>on an international flight
>there's TV screens on back of each seat like usual
>one of the in-flight games is fucking Fallout
10/10, would fly again

>>1939361
>Wait, remind me where and who exactly can you rape in Fallout 2?
Miria if you're not charismatic enough

>>1933693
it makes game reprehensible

>>1939335
no it wasnt me but that statement is quite accurate, grow up asshole fallout isnt that great

>>1940226
Oh it is you since no sane person would complain that walking through the wasteland is too much like walking through the wasteland.

>>1940228
Reminds me of the Fallout3 fags that say the mojave wasteland in NV is too empty

It's a fucking desert for fucks sake

>>1933027
fd

>>1940215

But, see, here's the thing: You don't have to do it.

>>1940245

Exactly. Fallout 3 had a more /interesting/ world, but it was ludicrous. There was NO consistency at all and no realism at any point. I mean, Megaton for fuck's sakes. Nobody would build a city around a bomb. Every location felt like it was from a different game and uniqueness was prioritized over everything else.

NV has a whole lot of "nothing" in its wastes, but it's an actual desert. Plus, there's plenty of shit to find if people looked for it instead of waiting to be spoonfed everything.

>>1933720

> you need swimming skill to survive the sewers part if you can't hack certain keypads

> makes the entire submerged facility level much easier

> useless

>>1940708
How was blowing up Megaton justified again?

>>1941207
pshhhhh....nothin personnal....humans.

>>1941207

It's really not. The in-game justification is Tenpenny hates seeing it on the horizon and he offers you a room at his hotel.

>>1941205

Yeah, it's not entirely useless, it's just not worthwhile to upgrade it past trained.

Now, Aqualung. THAT is useless.

>>1941215
And then you can fuck up a later quest and not even have access to it anymore.

>>1941215
Well, that's better than nothing, I suppose. Initially I was put off by that because I thought there was no justification whatsoever, but "a mad rich guy in a tower doesn't wants a better view" can pass.

>>1941231

The one with the Ghouls? Or the Wasteland Survival Guide?

>>1941234

It's actually pretty believable. I recall a small incident a while back where some folks put some wind turbines offshore to generate power, green energy and all that jazz, and some rich folks were raising hell because they "spoiled their view." I thought it was bullshit because the things were barely visible on the horizon, but meh. I can't remember if they got rid of the turbines, though.

>>1933027

Um. No.

Best "7-out-of-10 game" ever?

Perhaps.

>>1941594

Fallout 2's a solid 8 at worst.

>>1933693
> You can also sneak lit dynamite into little kids' inventory.
Well, maybe that'll teach those little shits to stop picking my pockets every time I walk past them.

Seriously, god DAMN IT, kid, what do you want, do you want a sandwich? I will buy you a fucking sandwich. I will buy you an entire orphanage and staff it with big breasted hookers if you want, I have the fucking money, just stop stealing shit from me, god DAMN IT, WHY IS THERE NO OPTION TO HELP YOU. I'M TIRED OF HAVING TO RUN PAST YOU IN VATS.

>>1942196
why not just murder him?

>>1942208
That's what the dynamite was for.

>>1942196

With the FO2RP, you can actually build them an orphanage and get them off the streets.

>>1933693
Where the fuck could you rape people in fallout 2? Modoc? I thought the father interrupted you and tried to kill you if you did that.

>>1944312
Also what's this about raping in new reno? You aren't confusing paying for sex with rape are you?

>>1934673
fallout 3 had better dungeons and npcs and totally fixed the awful fucking leveling system. Also the fallout universe is much more interesting than "grassy england countryside" and bethesda absolutely nailed bringing that stuff into 3D

>>1944509

The levelling systems IS pretty terrible in TES. It sounds "logical" until you realize it's literally grinding-based and nothing more.

Fallout 1 > Fallout 2

>>1942584
Why wasn't this in the retail game? It seems like the quest was simply turned off. The base Fallout 2 game is so fucking bad, the RP makes it endurable.

>>1945469

>time
>money

A lot of stuff was cut from FO2 due to money and time constraints. Many things were at least partially complete, but there wasn't enough time and money to finish and troubleshoot and test them. Some things were just straight-up broken, and still more never left the drawing board.

It's easy to forget, but Black Isle still had a schedule, a budget, and a publisher breathing down their necks. The RP has succeeded due to having none of those constraints.

>The base Fallout 2 game is so fucking bad

No, it isn't. There are a multitude of issues, certainly, but the game is still quite good in spite of it all.

That said, I could never go back to Vanilla now knowing what I would be missing out on.