/vr/ - Retro Games

Also I've been thinking of giving the Saturn Shinobi X a try because of how much I've enjoyed these... But the goofy FMV art style is honestly pretty off putting. Does anyone have any experience with this game in particular? Is it any good?

>>1390306

I know it's cliche, but my favorite is definitely Shinobi III. It's a bit on the easy side, but the pace of the action and the freedom and number of attack options it gives you is just fun as hell.

>>1390310

I've played a bit of it (forgot I owned it until just now, actually) and it's not a bad game at all. Pretty challenging in parts. The FMVs certainly aren't the greatest way to tell a story but as a Sega CD buff I appreciate their goofiness.

>>1390310
fucking love that one.
also love revenge of shinobi for genesis.
those two are very similar

Revenge of Shinobi and Shinobi III are my favorites. I'm not sure I can pick one over the other. I love how smooth Shinobi III is, but it's too easy and in a way I prefer how you have to approach enemies with more caution in Revenge.

The original Shinobi and the Genesis/Mega Drive version of Shadow Dancer are both good, too. The more recent 3DS one is pretty great and worth a try if you own a 3DS. It's the most difficult in the series I've played, but also possibly the most rewarding. The visuals, music, and a lot of the level design leave a bit to be desired. Still a 7/10 game for me, though. The core game design is excellent and the game controls very well.

Shinobi is one of my favorite game series and I wish Sega would have more made. The 3DS game in particular is one that could really use a sequel to polish its ideas. Oh well.

>>1390764 adding that yes, the Game Gear games are both really great, too.

A shame they removed the ending from the SMS Shinobi, but otherwise the port is pretty much perfect.

I used to play it a lot back then, but I sucked, so I'd often used the stage select code.

I personally didn't enjoy Shinobi Legions / Shinobi X / Shin Shinobi Den. Something about the controls felt off, and while I loved the shit cutscenes (comedy gold), there were many frustrating parts of the game to take me out of it. Particularly the mine cart and elevator stages (like a 10-minute elevator stage... so boring!).

While i sort of wish I had Shinobi X over Shinobi Legions (for the superior soundtrack + intro cutscene), it's hard for me to actually think about rebuying the game because of all the annoyances I'm reminded about.

Shadow Dancer is a pretty sweet game. I love how different its feel is to Revenge of Shinobi. It's a lot more cartoony, I think, which makes it more distinct. But still badass. Going around sicking your ninja dog on people is lots of fun.

why is this game so good when the other games are so bad?

>played every shinobi aside from X and the 3DS one
>haven't beat any of them

I've gotten pretty damn far in Revenge of Shinobi, 3, and GG, just never get around to completing that last level or two.

>>1390306
Shinobi X / legions for Saturn by far

>>1390310
retsupurae have a wrongpurae of shinobix

>>1391062
I wouldn't call Revenge/Super Shinobi bad. Same with Shadow Dancer. Hell, even Shinobi arcade can be fun (Shadow Dancer improves on it in every way though).

Shinobi 3 just more or less perfects the 2D Shinobi formula and is an excellent side-scrolling action game.

>>1391446
Having played Shinobi Legions >>1391041

I'd be interested in hearing why you enjoy it, whereas I didn't.

To be fair, I liked the variety of combat moves, but I think several are too hard to pull off consistently. As well, some levels are visually unimpressive (giant toy dinosaur in lab stage). I prefer a purer experience such as Shadow Dancer.

>>1391459
>Hell, even Shinobi arcade can be fun

Dude, arcade Shinobi is absolutely amazing, no need for that "even". It's just that, as you said, Shadow Dancer is pretty much the same thing except with a lot more style.

That said, I actually prefer the level design in the original Shinobi more.

And as much as I LOVE 3, I still prefer Revenge of Shinobi by a near country mile.

>>1391452

>>1391062
how is revenge of shinobi bad? Is it too hard for you muffin?

Fuck this room. Just blew through all my lives on my last continue here.

>>1391486

no need to explain, just look at it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv6tDtDrkkk

Man, I love the way this stage looks.

Also just beat the Spiderman/Batman boss... What on earth!? Started laughing my ass off as soon as he morphed into Batman and began zooming all over the place.

There's no way that was legal.

I hate being a casual

>>1391883
it wasnt legal
the game has several revisions

>>1391883
Alright this stage is a fucking cunt, I just went through two continues because of that one super hard fucking jump near the end and all the ninjas bouncing me into the water on the floaties.

I made it to Godzilla, but it was my last life and I had next to know health, so I didn't even get to figure out his pattern for next time before he blasted me out.

>>1391925
git gud m8 I'm sure if you gave it a shot without the trick, you'd find it's actually not too often you run out of shurikens anyways

>>1391931
Kind of a bummer, but it makes it seem funnier as well.

>>1391964
My version has Spider Man, but he morphs into Devil Man instead of Batman.

Also, the Rambo enemies are replaced with bald thugs. Too bad. It's impossible to tell which Revenge cart you have until you plunk it in, but the one you have (or emulate) is definitely the silliest and most memorable.

>>1391964

I start with 0 shuriken and end up with hundreds by the third stage or so anyways.

>>1391976
That's too bad. I've got a legit version, but through the 6-pak, and I'm pretty sure by that point they must've used one of the revisions. Haven't actually tried it yet, though.

I'll probably be being a stand alone Revenge of Shinobi cart eventually just for collection purposes and that awesome cover art, but it sucks if you truly can't tell if it's one with all Batman/Rambo or not until you try it.

>>1392030
*probably be buying

>>1391062
I am really mixed with Shinobi 3. It had a damn good soundtrack, a great art style, and improved the feel of the gameplay. On the other hand it was really easy until you reached stage 6 when the game just decided out of no where to kick your ass on that falling rock segment.

>>1392030
That level >_<
My older brother was never able to beat the game when we were younger. He could make it to the last boss but only rarely and never knew what to do. I beat it and sent him a picture of the end screen and he didn't care :(

Alright I officially have no idea what the fuck I'm doing

>>1392119
Here's a map if you give up.

>>1392138
Thanks, I was about to give up as it is.

>>1391620
Thats bad? why dont you fuck off to /v/

>>1392138
Oh god damnit, that was the last path I was going to take with the 6 (did all the others in that room to death), and I just said fuck it thinking if the one second to right was nothing, it certainly wouldn't be the one second to left either.

>>1392148

>>1392152
are you saying that to me? or to the one I was replying to

>>1392167
I'm saying it's better if you don't reply to the /v/ermin.

>>1391620
looks great

>>1392171
okay, yeah hating on super shinobi is just wrong. That yuzo soundtrack alone ascends it into the god tier, the super tight ninja action only makes it even better. Shinobi 3 is good and all but its not as tight as super shinobi, copyright infringement edition also ascends the game into its own tier that other games can only aspire to be.

Shadow Dancer is amazing

>>1392204
few games can achieve the level of amazing that is ninja-fighting The Terminator/Hulk, Godzilla, Rambo, and Spiderman-turned-Batman in the same game.

>>1392452
Don't forget Bruce Lee.

>>1390310
Shinobi X is actually quite good, would recommend it.

REVENGE OF SHINOBI is the best

>>1390419

How it isn't everyone's favorite is beyond me. One of the best fucking games on the mega drive.

>>1391990
I wish there was a way to force always zero shurikens in Shinobi 3.

The game is even better that way.

>that final boss in shinobi 3

All the bosses in that game are fucking unbelievable really... But god damn.

>>1390764
>3DS
Agreed, Shinobi 3DS is the only one I've played, but I love the very hard mode. It's almost too hard for it's length, to the point that I don't know if I'll ever have the stamina to finish the game.

>>1390771
They aren't ports of another version like the Sonic 1 and 2 on GG, are they? I don't want to deal with the BS of Sonic 2 GG or anything like it ever again.

>>1393909
Sonic 1 on GG isn't a down port like 2, it's got it's own music, bosses, level assets and layouts, etc etc etc. They should've given it a name other than "Sonic the Hedgehog" to differentiate, but oh well. Too late now.

And no, the Game Gear games are probably the most radical departure in the series aside from PS2 Shinobi. They're THE reason to own a GG imo.

if you don't think this is the tightest shit then get out of my face

How's the 3DS game

>>1394013

This screenshot pretty much represents the Genesis.

>>1394013
Indeed. Best game.

>>1394023

As an obsessive Genesis fan, this is pretty much true.

And that's a good thing.

>>1393921
The Sonic games on the GameGear are ports of the Master system 8 bit Sonic games.

>>1394017
Pretty meh.

>>1394024
Other way around (check the resolution), and Triple Trouble + the Tails games aren't on Master System.

>>1394017
Get GG Shinobi if you have a 3DS and haven't already played it.

That said, 3DS Shinobi is good but unpolished.

>>1394017
See my thoughts on it here >>1390764

Favorite's probably Shadow Dancer. It isn't as pretty or as imaginative (or even has as good an ost) as Shinobi 3 (dat Whirlwind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjaW4ZYzVHI)) but goddamn if it isn't one of the most satisfying games ever made.

And the why is pretty simple. Basically a perfect mix of drumskin-tight controls, short and deliberate animations and incisive, short SFX that give off a second to none feedback. It's mechanically impeccable. Comparing it to Shinobi 3 (who is pretty fucking good on those fronts, mind you) is like comparing a Formula 1 car to a BMW station wagon.

And damn, it does have 1 good track (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7uDh4GqnLc)) and one of the few western covers that aren't horrifying, pic related.

A curiosity- if you avoid every enemy and keep moving forward in the last 2 levels before the final boss (5-4 and 5-5 IIRC; warehouse, multi-color ninjas on the 1st, black only ninjas on the second), the controls will seize up and the MD will lag depending on how many are on the screen (you can get like 12 or something, then new ones stop spawning). This should be do-able in 3-2 but it beats me how you stay alive that long without cover.

Oh, only way to play it is no shuriken, level 2 or above.

>>1394301
It is a good game. I wish it was longer, though. I played it after Revenge of Shinobi (which I grew up with) and Shinobi III, and it seemed a bit underwhelming in comparison. But I loved the way flipping from one tier to another made you feel ninja-like. And the idea of playing as Joe Musashi's son is very cool, especially since the 3DS game has you playing as his dad

Speaking of, that...doesn't exactly make sense to me because of the time travel thing. Joe Musashi was obviously a modern day ninja. That was the entire shtick of the Shinobi series. So how can Jiro be his dad when the game starts several hundred years in the past and ends in the future? Were they expecting to be able to do a sequel? Did they just fuck up? I guess it doesn't really matter. I thought Jiro had a neat design, though. Joe's design in All Stars Racing is great, too.

>>1395694
>shadow dancer
>underwhelming

That's probably the last word I'd ever use to describe that game.

>>1395990

I wouldn't as well, otherwise I wouldn't have made the long post above, but that's pretty much how it was received. As an unspectacular Shinobi knock off, too short and too easy. One of the british Sega magazines I used to buy gave it a ~70% rating IIRC.

If the lack of top tier graphics and sound as well as its short length are valid criticisms, though, the same can't really be said about the difficulty. The 3 levels (which, strangely enough, change the title screen from Shadow Dancer to read Shadow Dancer II or III, depending on the level) and the choice of using shuriken or not cover the difficulty spectrum pretty thoroughly. But I guess, the main knock on the difficulty is just how precise the controls are, which is pretty unfair- it's making the game pay for not going along with hundreds of harder games where you're exposed to complicated platforming sections and imprecise controls (the Revenge double jump comes to mind), whereas in here getting the character to do what you want, as well as seeing what you did wrong when the screen pauses for a second on death (which should be a fucking staple of any game that uses 1-hit death, but anyways) go a long way into improving the playability.

It's one of those cases of solid gameplay withstanding the test of time. IMO, both III and SD (MD versions, to be clear) absolutely stand it, whereas Revenge... not as well.

>>1396521
>dissing best shinobi imo

I thought you were cool dude.

>>1396521
>As an unspectacular Shinobi knock off, too short and too easy.
It's a port of an arcade game.

>>1396552
No, it's a completely different game within the Shadow Dancer side series. Stages are completely different, art assets are completely different, bosses are completely different, music is completely different, bonus stage is completely different, physics are completely different, etc etc etc.

It's sequel to the arcade Shadow Dancer, basically.

>>1391584
I just spammed blue ninjitsu on that room

>>1396605
I didn't have any iirc, pretty sure I checked.

>>1391463
I mostly enjoyed it because of the crazy combat control you mentioned. Feels great once you get the hang of pulling everything off consistently. I do agree sometimes the graphics felt a bit cheesy, but it really fit in with the overall feel of the game (Those cutscenes).

also alot of the sprite animation looks awesome. especially the enemy dying animations

>>1396521
How is the Revenge double jump imprecise? You just have to time it correctly. I've never had issue with it.

>>1396750
exactly this is what I was referring to when i said tight here >>1392204. You have to know exactly when to time that shit and its never the games fault if you cant.

>>1396754
I felt that it was harder to perform in S3, the window just seems a good bit smaller.

>>1396754
>>1396775
I can understand not enjoying the mechanic. Either because it's too hard or because you just feel it's awkward or whatever. But it's definitely not imprecise and has always seemed, to me, to work as intended.

It reminds me of the people that think that Castlevania is "dated" because of the jump arc.

>>1396775
I had a harder time double jumping in S3, actually.

>>1392079
Totally agreed, enjoyed the game until the waterfall + falling rock segment. You have to do the double spin jump move but the controls aren't precise enough to get the timing right every time which makes it more frustrating than it should be. Honestly that's the real big problem with the Shinobi games for me: The controls aren't as tight as they should be for a ninja action game. Shadow Dancer on the Genesis seemed to suffer the least for this.

>>1396863
>aren't precise enough

Both of you guys need to stop blaiming the games already. They're all perfectly precise, just with strict timing that differs from game to game, but within the games are always the same.

>>1396750

I didn't say it was imprecise, I said that I'm reminded of it when I bring up the controls contributing to the increase in difficulty- the old Resident Evil problem where you have people arguing in favor of the tortoise-tank movement because it adds to the difficulty/scariness. They shouldn't. And in the double jump being so... I wouldn't call it imprecise but rather unreliable (as I recall, you both have to hold "C" an extra bit to get the highest jump and then only have a small window to activate it) when you want it to be as dependable as possible, especially if you're going to introduce stages when it's essential not to miss, it does just that. Oddly enough, I thought it was easier on 3 than Rev.

In general terms, I find the increase in difficulty stemming from controls rather than level design or enemy number/type/placement is what makes a lot of games not hold up as well nowadays. Revenge just does that to me, I guess. And Shadow Dancer, even if it has a lot less mechanics than 3, is a harsh peer to be compared to. It is by no means a Ranger X or an Alien Soldier, though.

>>1396546

C'mon, I said I didn't think it held up as well as the other 2. It's still a seminal piece of Sega history, just like, say, Golden Axe (who too has problems, this time with the bloody B+C attack).

>>1396870

Even if they are precise, the sudden increase of difficulty by introducing a complicated jumping segment when you've never realistically had to depend on the double jump before it is a problem. Call it being unfair or bad design, but it is.

>>1396941
I know m8, it's the most fun Shinobi imo though, so while it's fine for you to say it's not your favorite Shinobi game, it's not fine to say it doesn't hold up well just because you don't like certain things about it that someone else might.

>>1396959
>you don't like certain things about it that someone else might

So it's not fine to say game X doesn't hold up well because it has bad controls because someone might like... bad controls?

>>1396975
Some people don't think it controls poorly, though, for reasons other people in this thread have explained.

Whether or not a game has bad or good controls is subject to opinion like anything else.

>>1396975
No, we just don't agree it has bad controls to begin with. I think they're great considering they do exactly what you tell it to do.

>>1397009
>>1397010

But we're not talking about anything specific. "Game X" doesn't exist. I made it up as an example to address this silly notion that:

>it's not fine to say it doesn't hold up well just because you don't like certain things about it that someone else might.

...which is basically stating that there's no point arguing anything because people are going to claim "Subjective!" everytime someone else levels criticism at their favorite game just because they either can't argue back (or don't want to bother) or because their feelings got hurt. What would be the whole point of this board if everyone in it was only in for the circlejerk?

>>1397219
You can discuss without stating your subjective value as if it's an objective reality that applies to reality. You said it doesn't hold up because of some jump timing you don't like as if that applies to all of us.

There's no subjectivity in whether something holds up, which is why you were incorrect to say it when you're expressing a subjective dissatisfaction over a stricter timing that I like.

I guess what I'm saying is don't try to state subjective things as objective things just to try and make your opinion appear more credible.

>>1397231
*that applies to everyone

>>1397231

Seriously, you're going *there*, of all places? What, does every sentence have to begin with "In My Opinion" or "I Think" or "I Believe" otherwise you won't possible be able to discern fact from opinion? Come on.

>>1396736
I was never good enough at the combat to 'get good', so it never clicked for me.

I want to pick up a copy of Shinobi X so I can get the extra cutscenes + better music, but I doubt that will happen with a reasonable price. Shinobi Legions might be one of those games I dismissed only to 'rediscover' it. I did the same with Thunder Force V (I sold it because I didn't like it, only to rebuy and find its virtues).

It's funny, considering I absolutely hated the game when I sold it (or more accurately: i found it a frustrating and unrewarding experience). It was one of the first Saturn games I had, and of course the price of the game has doubled in the three years I've had the Saturn!

>>1397250
Also, this:

>There's no subjectivity in whether something holds up

is false. Whether a game "holds up", or whether it's acceptable by either modern standards or the advanced taste of the person that's replayed it in both instances, is possibly the only completely subjective thing in this discussion.

>>1392030
>6-pak
Yeah that's most likely the most recent revision.
I've got the 3-pak Mega Games 2 version, and that's the latest, with licensed Spiderman, and Skeleton Godzilla

>>1397267
What? So you're saying it's false... but then you say it's true. Do you even understand what you're arguing anymore?

Look, I get it, you don't like the timing on the jump. I really don't care. Just saying that's your subjective value, and how you feel has zero impact on how something holds up. It holds up how it holds up regardless of how you feel.

>>1397328
Oh, and no, how something holds up is objective, that's why everything you said what was wrong.

>>1397332
>how something holds up is objective

uh, no it isn't.

if it comes to opinions, it's not objective.

>>1397328
>Look, I get it, you don't like the timing on the jump.

No, it seems you don't. I haven't been talking about Revenge for the last handful of posts, but about how this

>it's not fine to say it doesn't hold up well just because you don't like certain things about it that someone else might.

is silly and this

>There's no subjectivity in whether something holds up

is wrong. Objectively. Now there's this:

>how something holds up is objective

On whose authority?

Do it light
Taking me through the night
Shadow dancing

>>1397263
I also want to add to this that I always felt the controls to Shinobi Legions felt clumsy and unresponsive. It never felt like I was pulling off all the moves I wanted, and half the moves in the instruction manual seemed outside my reach. I don't even know if you need all of those moves outside of the dash slash and downward poke.

>>1391459
Revenge of Shinobi and Shadow Dancer have God-Tier music.

Sega made a "Revenge of Shinobi" on GBA which was a totally different (and shit) game, when they could have made a mint by simply porting RoS to GBA.

Sadly, the great Noriyoshi Oba is no longer at Sega.

>>1391883
The Breakwater...dat music...dat insanely hard jump towards the end. You have t time your somersault perfectly.

>>1391931

Not the batman, but at the same Revenge came out, Sega did have the rights to making Spider-Man games.

>>1394013

All the autoscrollers in that game had the best music.

>>1394035
>other way around
Nope. MS has a larger resolution, and plus they cleaned up Sonic's sprite on the GG port to make him stand out more on the small screen.