/vr/ - Retro Games

D

I use them when I get sick of repeating the same section of a game a-dozen-too-many times. Prevents me from getting sick of the game and not wanting to play it ever again, and I get to see if the ending is worth a legit effort.

i dont personally use them since I think it takes away from the feeling of accomplishment of actually beating or getting past a point in the game. but it's neat that the option exists and i dont really give a shit how people use it

>>10604180
A

A video game is a set of rules meant to be overcome. If you use states you are shirking those rules, a cheater. most likely for an equally selfish motive. I won't stand for some flippant disregard of the laws of man. Aku soku zan.

However, it's also true that some people don't play games except to socialize. It depends then, on what the ideal of the person is.

Depends on the game, I mainly just use them in place of regular saves but if the game has a point I can beat effortlessly followed by a moment that's actually hard I'll use a save state to just save time getting to the hard part

>>10604180
It depends on the game but if you're playing a game with regular save points then yes you are a cheating noob. You could use them to replace level codes in old NES games or something. I like option B because I have had 3D World Runner crash while I was close to beating the game and when you lose you have to start again from the first stage. Anyone who has played this game will know how infuriating this would be.

>>10604196
Some games break their own rules, suck, or were never finished. You're just being silly.

>>10604196
>However, it's also true that some people don't play games except to socialize. It depends then, on what the ideal of the person is.

We are talking about save states in an emulator so most likely used for single player games so I do not really see your point. I like using save states when playing things like Smash, Mario Party, Nightfire etc for obvious reasons.

>>10604180
I use it on games I've already beaten when I'm just messing around. It's kinda like cheats in that sense, I guess

>>10604219
It's a debug feature

>>10604191
This is the best answer honestly. They are neat for multiplayer purposes or maybe to use right before a gamebreaking bug will appear or something. Other than this, if you use them you will ruin your own sense of accomplishment.
>>10604219
This is acceptable of course.

>>10604207
Yeah, and? If you're playing a fighting game, can you retreat behind a rollback option when you mess up? You just gotta learn how to live with your choices at some point. I'm not saying to Iron Man every game, that'd just as toxic. But that at least teaches patience and perseverance. It forces you to be more acute next time and not take risks you can't back up with skill. Virtuous traits. What does using save states teach offer you except a way to speedrun the story?

A bad game can be turned enjoyable when played with a right mindset. A good game in the hands of a bad gamer is just tragic.

If you use save states you cheated not only the game, but yourself.
You didn't grow.
You didn't improve.
You took a shortcut and gained nothing.
You experienced a hollow victory.
Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.
It's sad that you don't know the difference.

>>10604180
If you're playing through a video game and use save states for anything other than picking it up later, then that playthrough's no longer legit and you didn't really beat it. If you use it to pick it up later that's fine because it's the same as having the console turned on over night or while you go to school, just waiting for you to come back and pick it back up from where you left off, it's fine.

Anyways, there's nothing wrong with it not being legit, afterall who cares? It's your playthrough, your fun, but that's the thing, often they make it all too easy, and that takes away from the fun...

I'll only use them to genuinely cheat if I'm about to quit whatever I'm playing, and I only do it at the start of levels, so I still have to finish the level legit, but still, I admit that it's cheating anyways.

So, for very good video games, even if it's kind of pissing me off and kicking my ass, I know that if I keep it up and pull through, I'll fall in love with it and it'll feel rewarding, but for something I can tell sucks and I'm about to drop? I might use save states to get to the end just for the hell of it, no, I didn't beat it, but I played through all of the levels and got to the end, and that was my goal.

>>10604240
If a game sucks that much but you think it'd be worth a single run, wouldn't it be better to just drop it and come back later when you're ready so you can experience it as it was intended?

>>10604180
I only use them in RPGs, mainly the ones that kick you out to the title screen and you lose all your progress when you die. I can't tell you how many times I have just quit the games that do that because I do a 4 hour long intro and then walk the wrong way on the map and get party wiped instantly and everything is just gone. The ones that let you just continue or at least dont have fucking psychopath design where thats a real possibility, I wont use them.

The only other case I would use a savestate is if I really just need to get going and dont have time to or just cant save the game first. I don't see any real issue with this, it's not any different than just leaving the game paused and console powered on.

In general, I do think liberal use of savestates does cheapen the experience and I certainly don't feel like I really beat the game if I used them whenever something got difficult.

A. You didn't beat the game. :)

A and D. You didn't beat the game but who cares? You experienced what it had to offer without allowing a relic of the past to waste your time.

>>10604243
No, because at that point I've probably played it enough that I'm used to how it feels, my mind is geared towards this particular video game, if I'm moving onto something else then I'll have to get back from scratch whenever I pick it back up, and since I don't find the title to be very good, I don't want to pick it up again and have to learn it all to get good at it again, I want to play and move on.

A lot of the times I prefer to just put an infinite lives and/or continues code than use save states, since I have a high tolerance for BS, but when I'm not enjoying myself much and I'm sent back to its title screen every time, and I can tell that I'd have to put in way too many hours to even get to the end legit, I just use save states or a code, I know I cheated and didn't beat it, but it's not the point.

After I'm done I put it in my spreadcheet of video games I've finished, but with an "*" and details in the "Cheats" column, so if I ever go back to it, I'll know how I "beat" it and what to do differently.

I have a few titles that I "beat" this way that I plan to go back to, it's just that when I resort to cheating it's because I'm fed up and want to play something else already, not grind even more.

>>10604248
>>10604236
>>10604196

>>10604180
I'm C. I've used the music metaphor to explain it a lot too. First I learn the game, then I beat the game. If I use a save state for any reason other than coming back later, then that invalidates the current playthrough.

I just don't find beating levels I've already beaten just to get to the levels I can't do very fun.

I save between levels. A lot of old games were designed for children so they didn't respect your time.

>>10604260
But just to add to that, I also have a caveat that if something is just plain bullshit and I'm not playing a game for the challenge, then I can cheese it with save states.

But personally I don't give a fuck what people do, I do think that playing with save states and without are two different experiences, but at the end of the day, who really gives a fuck of someone wants to cheat their way through a game?

>>10604180
Save States are cheating, they are functionally identical to just using an infinite lives code or something similar.
People can use them all they want, but if they try to act like it's somehow not cheating they are delusional.

you wouldnt save state irl

E: Abuse them like a bastard, then pretend online that I'm a super elite gamer that would never touch save states because I'm just that good

>>10604274
Bruh I already do

B is how I use them but most people who get mad at people who use them have never 1CCed anything in their life anyway. It's all posers

>>10604262
Nice slogan for a t-shirt. Weak mantra to live by.

>>10604276
F: Don’t even play any games but act like I’m an elite gamer and call everyone online a shitter.

>>10604180
I always put down a state after I get done playing for that session, alongside a normal save. Sometimes I start the game back up through the state, sometimes I don't.
I think the last time I used a save state outside of that was in F-Zero GX, I was doing a master grand prix and I put one before the first race because you have to go through some loading screens to select my character and see the course overview to restart. I think I used it once cause I fell off the first track in the Diamond Cup but I won after that. Honestly if I played an RPG like FFX again, making one at the start of the yunalesca fight is fine just in case since losing that fight makes you go through like 9 minutes of cutscenes.

>>10604180
I use them when I save the game because I don't trust emulators to not delete my save somehow and screw me over

D

I'll play the game any damn way I please, and anyone who says otherwise can get bent

>>10604180
B and D are respectable
B is my personal choice (and I look down on people who are sufficiently inept to NEED choice D)
A is okay but too picky and probably rooted in some kind of erroneous thinking
C sounds okay but isn't - it's the worst and stupidest choice and anybody who prefers it should just come out of the closet and choose A, B, or D already

>>10604180
I was A for most of my life but now that I’m old and have nothing to prove to myself or anyone else and often play these games just to make chemicals go brrrr

D


WITNESS THE BIRTH OF A CASUALFAG

>>10604228
I'm not replaying ten hours of the same game over, and over. You don't either checkpoints, and save systems are the norm for a very good reason. It's just padding. If you want a game to waist your time doing the same thing over, and over go play desert bus. .

>>10604180
I don't use it to the extent I used to, but nowadays it's more of a "this is because the game has bullshit rng in this section, and if it's going to fuck me then I'll fuck it right back.

>>10604196
I cheat in multiplayer because it actively deprives others of wins.

>>10604180
I use save states as a journal of some sorts. Specially in emulators where you can have 99+ save states, I save states for cool boss fights, nice looking stages, before an important cutscene, right before the ending, etc. So whenever I want to just fight one boss or replay a part of the game I don't have to replay it all.
I guess youtube is the modern day replacement to this, but it's still not the same as not every game/player has the same gameplay state as me.

>>10604254

Unrelated: I actually ended up reading that manga because of this image occasionally being posted on /vr/ and, very surprisingly, it turned out to be really good. Good characters, good writing, minimal pandering to horny manchildren (despite what the boobs-overhanging-the-Genesis panel may suggest), fun references to games, a storyline that does its job and wraps up nicely without filler, and a fan-translation that usually manages not to be offensively shoddy. If you want a light high school romance involving video games, give it a shot. (The title is Kimi to Pico-Pico.)

>>10604180
B) because I got shit to do

>>10604393
>minimal pandering to horny manchildren (despite what the boobs-overhanging-the-Genesis panel may suggest)
Imagine being this much of a fucking faggot.

>>10604180
E) Use it as level select. You save at the beginning of the level and continue from there when you die.
You're welcome.
I choose E.
>checkpoints?
It makes people to think a lot on the correct checkpoint position. I think beginning of the level is ideal.
>>10604387
I think there was a project that had savestates for all the games at different locations. It's probably not finished as it would be a huge undertaking.
>>10604393
>minimal pandering to horny manchildren
I was going to take your advice up to this point. It's not even that you dislike fanservice, it's that insulting people for the sake of it makes me not want to take your advice seriously.

>>10604180
I dont use them to beat games. Only save-states I have used on those mini console things were when I encountered a glitch in super mario bros i wanted to save to go back and look at or just an iconic section or level in a game if i wanted to show someone.

I dont really give a fuck if people use them, I just dont think they are important. Are there games that I wish gave you more "restart" points? Sure. But I play the games as they were intended, for better or worse.

I dont really get many of the "quality of life" improvements remakes and remasters add. Save states are already one thing, but then they add stuff in RPGs where you just cant die in battles now. I know my friend "beat" Final Fantasy 8 remaster by using such stuff where he just couldnt die and at that point its just kinda like, whats even the point of playing the game?

Its one thing if its an emulator where the whole point is customized options, but I think if a game is going to be re-released, they should at least make it still play like a game with options changed, but not feel like complete hacks. For example, say an arcade game gets re-released, maybe instead of just letting you credit feed it or giving you save states over the main game, add in restarts at the beginning of each stage you go back to if you die. At least then you are trying to maintain some type of "game" while adding QoL for modern or casual players to want to actually get better at playing the game.

>>10604405
>>10604408

I'm boggled that THAT of all things is what immediately triggered multiple anons. God damn some of you are uselessly delicate. I'm saying I like a good story, I like good porn, and I like the two together on the rare occasions when that manages to happen somehow - but usually a manga that looks like this would draw itself out endlessly with teasing fanservice images and then NEVER deliver on actual porn. And it wouldn't deliver a good story along the way either. (Examples from elsewhere in the gyaru manga world: Gal Gohan - good waifu, hollow supporting cast, bland plot, no proper porn; Hajimete no Gal - good waifu, other characters mostly nonsensical, plot a rambling, obviously improvised, overlong mess, no proper porn. Or maybe from the game world: Leisure Suit Larry, possibly? I dunno, I haven't played those games, but they look like they constantly tease you without giving you either good characters or satisfying sex scenes, which seems lame to me. But maybe they're good.)

Have some confidence you dorks. You don't have to feel wounded because somebody else thinks that 150 chapters of watered-down porn mixed with lazily hacked-together plot aren't worth consuming when there are more good porn and more good stories out there than anybody can consume in a lifetime.

>>10604478

>>10604478
I actually prefer teasing and not delivering. Each to their own I guess. If you actually deliver there's nothing left. That's why they don't do it.
I guess what you're describing sounds like Onegai Teacher. It looks like it could be ecchi on the outside, but it's not.

>>10604180
E) All of the above.

They're not mutually exclusive concepts.

For me, using save states is like using gameplay-altering mods. It's what you do when you've already beaten the game vanilla, you experienced the developer's intent, now it's time to throw that out the window and fuck with everything under the hood.
It's not retro but my perfect example is New Vegas. First playthrough, the only mods that should be installed are ones that improve the game's stability because that game barely fucking works. But once you've beaten it once, got an ending, go fucking nuts man. Download those ultra 4k textured WW2 guns and voiced waifu companions, you've earned it.

>>10604508
>It's what you do when you've already beaten the game vanilla
Not necessarily, some players are just allergic to losing.

>>10604523
It's not even for the sake of "you didn't beat the game". It's that you'll never play a game for the first time again, and you don't want to ruin the purity of that by cheating.
2nd playthrough onwards, cheat to your heart's content, doesn't bother me at all.

>>10604180
Depends on the game really, many NES games where made artificially difficult for no other reason than wasting kids time and making sure they didn't get through the whole game if they choose to rent it instead of buying it. Any idea that the difficulty of that game is "the developers intent" or "how they wanted it to be played" goes out the window then as they literally artificially made the games infuriatingly hard in order to drive sales vs rentals. In games like those I think save states are a perfectly valid and logical tool if you just want to actually experience the game instead of wasting days of your life perfecting pixel perfect jumps and timings that even the devs couldn't do.

>>10604478

>>10604523
I still can't believe people used to argue for changing directions mid jump rom hack. It completely removes the fun out of Castlevania.

>>10604478
>An essay
Anon, if anyone's "triggered" or "wounded" here it's you, I simply called you a faggot because implying that shots of boobs/ass here and there is bad at all is fucking gay, it's not manchildren that like boobs/ass, MEN like boobs/ass. It could have fanservice and deliver a good story just the same, the way you wrote it is like fanservice is always bad. Men like looking at nice things, chill.

>>10604527
I feel what defines cheating is a grey area. What about strategy guides and hint hotlines? Hearsay tips from friends and "that kid"? I personally play until I get super stuck, not just hitting a wall once but very obviously missing some critical tidbit of information before capitulating to advice. I feel similarly on the issue of occurence, the fact something can only be done for the first time once and then only imitated. For example, I beat The Lion King on Super Nintendo a little while ago and I was able to get through the game on normal up until the final battle with Scar, where I would endlessly batter him at the top of pride rock and seemingly make no progress. You have to use a throwing move which was not needed until this crucial moment and was only explained in the manual. Is reading the manual cheating? I don't personally think so, but I'm sure someone will claim I didn't defeat the game because I used external information despite it being provided alongside the game to begin with.

>>10604337
>C sounds okay but isn't - it's the worst and stupidest choice and anybody who prefers it should just come out of the closet and choose A, B, or D already
why should arcade games be seen as different than any other skillful activity? literally no other form of training is that inefficient.

>>10604363
There is no game that requires you to replay up to 10 hours if you get a game over.

>>10604180
C if you are going for clears, D if just playing for fun. Although, you should also be transparent about them because obviously it does give an advantage even just for practicing.

However, the landscape is obviously a lot different now. One game is not meant to last you for 12 months, nor are you competing with players from 30 years ago; you are competing with players nowadays, vast majority of which use save states for practice.

>>10604180
>C) If you use save states to save scum you didn’t beat the game, however you can do so as practice in order to get better at a certain part before you do a full run if the game without the use of save states. Sort of like practicing a particularly difficult bar of a song over and over rather than starting the whole song over when you mess up.
>D) Use save-states all you want, who cares?

I'm both of these. Generally I go with D.
But if you're (say) trying to present a legit run of a game, don't use save states. Practicing? Sure. But if I'm looking through YouTube for something like a "no death, no damage speedrun of game X, Y or Z" then a video that claims to be that but is filled with spliced save state footage is for obvious reasons an illegitimate run.

>>10604180
I don’t give a shit if other people use save states, but for me it’s B.

There isn't such a thing as "training" with savestates. You're cheating.

You're not an athlete before a match. You're playing a video game. The moment you turn on the game, you're playing by the games' rules and the moment you use savestates you're cheating.

And it doesn't matter if you do it all again without savestates afterwards: being able to physically execute the button presses required to beat a game is only half the learning required to beat the game, the other half is all the game knowledge specific to the game. If you learn that half with savestates, playing the game in one go afterwards doesn't erase that knowledge, it's still knowledge acquired through cheating.

So stop pretending you're an athelete training before a match. You're a cheater using a time machine during the match.
"Training" is for instance, try to improve your DPS in SHMUPs by tapping your fingers while you're not playing. Another example is Street Figher IV's training room designed to help you learn the controls and hitboxes in safe conditions; THAT'S a training mode. None of these things put you in the same conditions as playing the game.

>>10604371
This. If the game throw cheap bullshit at you and don't respect my time, I'm not going to respect these fucking devs. Overboard on PS1, I'm looking at you, dickhead

>>10604276

>>10604228
It's a thorny question because the world moves ever faster, the middle class shrinks smaller (more time spent working), and we all have less time to see everything we want to see. But at some point you have to ask yourself: Would you rather play this with savestates or just watch a longplay? Depends on how often and for what reason you're using savestates.

If you're not having fun, assess why. Research and see if there's a romhack that addresses some or all of your issues. If not, do savestates fix most of your issues with the game? (e.g. unforeseeable forced damage/death, true random progession blockers, bug avoidance, broken save compatibility)? If not any of those, are you just savestate scumming to say you beat that game?

That final reason - savestate abuse just to claim you beat the game - is a worthless endeavor. Savestates are best used on severely flawed games that you greatly enjoy, and at some point rote memorization should power you through the bad parts of the game if it has any repayability. Otherwise just watch a longplay and appreciate the few things the game does right. Some games are not made for you and you'll never allow yourself the time to beat them. That's okay. You don't need to play your whole ROM library.

>>10604180
D. I'm an adult who doesn't have time to repeat the same trial and error parts over and over again or deal with save points. There are some really bullshit parts in older video games that I just don't have the patience for anymore.

>>10604180
Great tool. Consider it cheating myself.

That said, do what you want, play how you want. But to me you didn't beat the game.

>>10604542
I think wounded anon's point is that it is difficult to balance fanservice and story, and mega-fans of fanservice are big spenders & complainers that make it more lucrative to focus on fanservice at the expense of a good story. That's assuming a lot but it's my most charitable interpretation.
>>10604246
I'd like to hear which RPGs have done this if you can remember. I haaate shit like this but can't remember specific examples off the top of my head.

i "dont like using them" but in practice once i use it for the first time on a game i just use it the whole rest of the way through. still dont like using them tho.

B normally, and I'll give the game some good solid attempts as-is. If it gets really annoying I'll switch to D because I have better things to do than keep repeating some 10 minute level to get to the boss I keep eating shit on.

>>10604541
romhacking dot net QoL hack:
debug fly + screen kill
lets you fly around the screen by pressing B (sry I know that conflicts with like 5 other controls mapped to B I couldn't figure out how to map it to any other buttons) and glitches all enemies to death while doing the cripple walk. not compatible with any other romhacks and can't get past the first half of the first level so you need to use level select. Also the patch applies a half-completed English translation from 2001 because I accidentally did all my work with the translation applied to my rom and then lost all my saved work so this xdelta patch is all I have left and I can't update it. I've also replaced all the music, guess what games the new music are from! [sic] the game crashes a lot so savestate offen.
This is the definitive way to experience this ""game"" that barely qualifies as a game without my hack. Subscribe to my Patreon for news about my upcoming full-game romack, it's very ambitious and i am excited to start working on it soon! I have all the ideas in my head so that i don't forget my ideas.

>>10604180
D. It doesn't matter, because you executed the same legit inputs to beat the game as someone playing without them, just without the tedium of game over screens and having to painstakingly go all the way back to where you were.

>>10604705
Athletes can practice different parts of a match out of order without a time machine. A more apt comparison would be saying that it's like cheating on an academic test by knowing all the questions ahead of time (given that it's not intended for you to know them). It's supposed to be a surprise, that's what the experience of that kind of test is all about - throwing a wrench in your expectations and seeing how you deal with the fallout. Are you smart enough to improvise using what you've learned? Otherwise solid copypasta, would seethe.

>>10604180
I only use save states so I don't have to write down passwords.
I don't care what you use them for. Do what you find fun.

>>10604739
More RPGs do this than don't. Ones that actually let you continue from a checkpoint or last Inn you slept at are few and far between. Some games this isn't an issue because they're actually well designed, Final Fantasy 7 for example has save points everywhere ontop of being able to save on the world map at anytime plus you would have to really go the wrong way for a long time to run into something that could actually instant kill you at a lower level. However pretty much anything from the 80s, and plenty of 90s games will definitely have no qualms against telling you to go fuck yourself for almost no reason.

A specific one that made me angry was Thousand Arms. I got through the really long intro, finally got out into the world and walked the wrong way without knowing. Got into a battle, didn't even have time to figure out how it worked, got killed immediately and had to do it all again. I gave up on it for years until I picked it back up again. I'm glad I did because its a great game, but holy shit I don't know why these games even let this be a possibility I might have never come back.

>>10604790
Take a picture lazy

>>10604478
>here’s my thesis on why I’m not triggered but you are

>>10605054
allergic to reading

>>10605058
Bad comeback.

I remember a friend in school getting softlocked in his FF6 game at the cultist's tower because he was using save states and didn't have Reflect for the boss. Serves him right for not using saves as the game designers intended, btfo faggot lmao

>>10604523
woah is that a tweet from some random guy on the Internet? btfo

>>10604180
They are a great option with many applications and their inclusion has not been removed for over 20 years for a reason

>>10604258
>guy that reads his chat to learn what to do and how to solve puzzles - "you didnt beat the game!!!"

>>10605060
illiterate

Save States are just a faster reset to me, I FUCKING HATE to wait to play the game, the thing I hated the most in SOTN was how long the death scream was

>>10605298
Bad comeback 2

>>10605303
you have the fast forward for this matter.

>>10604180
D is just incorrect for actually playing the game.
You're just LARPing if you do D.
It's akin to playing a round of golf but having infinite do-overs and then still claiming you shot under par.

>>10604774
>because you executed the same legit inputs to beat the game as someone playing without them
But you didn't. You did not string together the inputs from start to finish in the way the game asked you to. You did not meet the game's set challenge.

>>10604196
Basketball is a set of rules.
Every sport is a set of rules.
This doesn't forbid practicing.
There is nothing wrong with C.

>>10605358
To convulated and still not fast enough, I save in-game and then I just save state to the same point the game would load anyway.

Unless there are specific restart rules of course, like changing the starting place or items, then no save states

I just want to fucking play the game.

>>10605384
Sure you did, it's just a way of being more efficient by splicing together your best efforts.

>I'm approaching this as an experimental playground fuck around game that I don't want unnecessary constraints placed on me I.E. mario 3 permanently locking you out of levels
>I'm making a time value judgement with limited continue games and just am not in a place where I can tolerate hours of repeating the initial levels, learning a late game boss in fragments between multiple full length playthroughs
>bad design that does not justify fairplay on your part
>skipping one very particular bitch section you hate
All these are fine to me and I wouldn't judge someone for using them this way. Only issue I'd have is people just using them to erase mistakes as a matter of course in conventional saved progress games. there are probably more engaging things you could be doing at that point.

Everything you can't do on the original hardware is cheating this includes taking screenshots of passwords.

>>10605382
The thing is, no one gives a shit how random people on the Internet do thing

>>10605429
You would know.
Just like you would know if you cheated at anything else.

>>10605456
Again, who cares? Did one have fun? Then the game served its purpose.

>>10605458
>who cares?
I would. I'd know I cheated and didn't really surmount the game's challenge.
That you can't seem to understand this is very telling about your personality and integrity.

>>10605418
How is this different than an instant polaroid photo?

>>10604705
You are silly. (and wrong).

>>10604705
Going by your logic you only get one chance to complete the game. Because getting a game over and then restarting the game is "practice".

>>10605476
Using a camera is not any different from using a Game Genie or a third party gamepad with auto-fire buttons.
In all those cases you're using extra hardware to get yourself an advantage.

>>10605490
How is using a camera any different than writing the password down? Why is one password storage medium cheating and the other isn't?

>>10605490
>a third party gamepad with auto-fire butto
What about a first party gamepad with auto-fire buttons?

>>10604725
Okay bud.
But you did not beat the game.

>>10604478
You don't have to be such a faggot to make that point here, this is not reddit, you don't need to insult imaginary adversaries first to pretend to have the moral high ground

I save scum if I feel the game is unfair or if the difficulty of getting past a certain point isn't worth the time and effort. Otherwise I just use save states as actual saves.

I feel like some of you are too young and in a few years you'll understand why we want to optimize our time.

>>10604180
D, but personally I do B. I am an adult with a family, I have 2-3 hours after everyone else goes to bed to play, and some of the games I want to play don’t accommodate for that.

>>10605418
You know that pencils and paper existed pre-2000, right?

>>10604180
I don't really care, but personally I'll use them as an extra save.
Like I'll save a state, then also save the game. Probably due to past trauma of losing a save or having it corrupted.

>>10604774
No you didn't. You play less sloppy playing through a game without savestates than you do with them.

>>10604180
I don't care how people use them. For me I just use them as B

>>10605429
It's funny you say that because save state abusers tend to insist they're not cheating.

>>10604180
>this is acceptable
According to who? you're doing something the game wasn't intended to do.

I very much accept that I didn't "beat" the "same game" as other guy that didn't use save states.

However, I'm fine with that, and I use in response the phrase: Who cares lol, it's a game. If you genuinely can't have a conversation with someone that uses save states about a game, your superiority complex is either rooted in your young age, or your concerning lack of responsibilities at an older age.

I'm a young millenial in eastern europe that first got their hands on gaming in 99'. Started off with Extremely Goofy Skateboarding, then Hercules. Always been a Sony kid. I love games. But videogames do age.

What I don't love is people pretending that they have more fun than me, playing an arguably less fun version of a game. Game mechanics that are no longer needed, like rare/punishing save points, have no need to be active in games when they no longer have memory as a limiter, or no longer are arounding renting services. We both know companies used to drag out short games with insta-death pits.

If we start a retro platformer, for example, and we both die, you get sent to the start of the game, or the start of the "stage", which probably was 20 minutes ago. Sometimes, there's simply no fun in repeating something, the same way it's not that fun to hear the same stories someone might tell you. I start somewhere 20 seconds back, and I get to re-do the challenge right then and there.
You might argue that your sense of achievement is greater than mine, and that's something that I absolutely accept. It's also something that I'm not particularly passionate about, because I explore games through a pure weeheehaha perspective, or a cultural perspective, rather than to climb a social ladder in irl circles or online forums.

>>10605606
around*
long day

>>10604180
>>10604198
>>10604206
>>10604236
>>10604240
>>10604264
>>10604274
>>10604276
>>10604408
>>10604436
>>10604543
>>10604558
>>10604561
>>10604769
>>10604802
>>10604786
>>10605476
>>10605458
>>10605606
don't mind me just savestating your're posts

>>10605606
>Who cares lol, it's a game.
People who actually play video games instead of farting around pretending to play them.
You are like a 4 year in the floor playing with the monopoly set making up its own silly pretend version of the actual game.
Does the 4 year old have fun? Sure.
Does anyone take the 4 year old's opinions about how to play board games seriously?
No.

>>10604180
At the end of the day, none of it matters because the user can just do whatever they fucking want with his games and emulators.

That said, I really don't like using savestates. It's very much cheating in my eyes, so I only ever use it if I have to leave the game and come back later.

I'll use them as a convenient pause-reload state or to speed up tedious RNG bullshit. I'm getting older and no longer have patience for things gated behind low random chance. Or if a section is giving me trouble and takes a lot of time/presses to try again.

>>10605627
the error in your thinking, is that you have to imagine me as a 4 year old child, to feel valid in your argument
Are you that fragile in your mindset, that you can't even look at my post, knowing that a grown man typed it?
Is it that hard for you to accept that I'm having fun doing my own thing?

As I said, I'm very aware i'm not playing the "same game". You yourself repeating that doesn't do much to your case, because you already have that point. But does that really matter? Believe me, I don't lose out on any precious interactions with esteemed gamers such as yourself

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that savestaters are cheating scum who should be executed and then killed.

>>10604180
This topic is bizarre to me. A save state captures a precise point in the game to be reloaded, this is perfect for saving and quitting out of a game. It's also perfect if there's lead up to some difficult challenge in the game, you cut out the constant reloading and running back to where you were, the tedium.

When you play a game in an emulator there's certain caveats. Like the way a Gameboy Advance saves, it constantly scrubs the SRAM to a file, this wears down flash media, which might be what you're playing the game off of? what sense would it make to allow for it to wear down faster? you can avoid that by-shocker-using save states instead. blah blah blah your needs.

>>10605656
mental illness lol

>>10605656
This but semi-unironically

>>10604180
I usually treat it like B) personally, and then after beating something I don't care. I also don't give a shit how other people use them or play stuff

People advocating for savestates have clearly never been savestated in real life. I have, and it fucking sucks.

>>10604180
I use them everytime I can.
Some games only want you to save on certain points, or limit your saves.
This wasn't fine even when I was 11 years old.
I don't want to repeat the same part dozens of times.
I want to be able to save in the middle of a FFVIII battle (yes I like that, problem?)

At the end of the day, I play games to have fun, and I have no time to repeat a single stage so many times.
>you did not beat the game aaaaaaahhh
I did, according to my rules. In my home there are my rules. I am not concerned with other autistic fags may think about it. It wouldn't be different from zoomers who play games and post about them in order to be accepted on some trooner's page.

>>10605656
Cringe

Captcha is: Dank
LoL

save states are why I'm less inclined to take emulatorfags opinions on retro games seriously

>>10605627
Anon you should start to care about other things in life.
Games are cool, but you may be obsessed about them.
Go for a walk every other day.

What's with all the failed normalfags on 4chan these days?
>I don't have TIME to play this game
>you guys take these things way too seriously
>you don't know what it's like to be a hard working adult like ME
lmao stfu retard

>>10604180
The purpose of games is to be fun, so use them if they make a game more fun for you. People who play games because they have something to prove are pathetic.

>>10604561
See, and here we get to the core of the issue. People who oppose save stats just don't play games.

It's really hard to find games that don't implement some kind of system of saving progress. Outside of Roguelikes it's been a industry standard since about 1983 to save progress in some way. Very few games don't implement passcode, checkpointing, or other means of picking the player up nearer to their last point. Only technical limitations (That we are no longer bound by, as you can note basically every game saves players progress permanently now.) lead to progress being wiped when turning the system off.


Even your giga hardcore permadeath games explicitly save people's progress where they left off when they exit the game, and include checkpoints for the purpose of crashing. Save states are objectively the correct, and intended way to play these games. Nobody at any point thought "Someone knocked on your door? Skill issue, having to start the game over is a feature. I fucked up coding, and the game crashed? Get good nerd!" If they did, fuck them.

>>10605592
Like playing it on your computer?

>>10605761
>you didn't play this one obscure MS-DOS permadeath game from the mid 80s where you can lose dozens of hours? You don't play video games!
I literally just beat Contra Hard Corps and Vectorman on original hardware the other day.
For the vast majority of games, managing your lives and continues is part of the intended challenge. Reeing about hardware limitations is null because most games were balanced and designed around said hardware limitations. The games that don't require saves or passwords take no more than an hour or two to beat, like the two I just mentioned. You just have to get gud

>>10605627
In my home I fart as I want and I play a lot of beautiful games, and I don't care about you and what you think.

Here it is:
>loud fart with simultaneous save state.
> maybe this has stained my underwear
Take this anon!!!

>>10605694
Do you have a job, a house that needs some work, a family, and other hobbies, anon?

>>10605694
It’s a shitter cope. The vast majority of games aren’t so difficult that they can’t be beaten if you don’t have too much time to play each day. Most of the hardest ones are fairly short, so it doesn’t take too long to get good enough to reach the end without cheating. It’s not like an MMO where it needs to become a second job for you. It’s nothing but a cope to think that anyone who can beat retro games legit just has more free time than you do. We’re not talking about world-record speedruns here.

The whole fun is in getting good and beating the game legit. Why even play difficult games if you’re going to cheat? Just play easier games. There are plenty of those.

>>10604180
playing a game with save states is like going to run a marathon and then just taking a car to get to the end. why even bother at that point.

>>10605761
>and include checkpoints for the purpose of crashing
LMAO imagine failing so hard at gamedev you have to change your save system to account for constant crashes

>>10605806
It's a very consumerist mindset. They don't really want to play the game, learn it's ins-and-outs, and overcome the challenges presented, they just want to consoooom the product so they can move on and consoooom another product.

>>10605784
See, you just listed off two games that feature checkpointing, you silly goose. You didn't reset your console every time you died, you used the checkpointing system, and if you got up you didn't turn off the console. You also admit to using passcodes for longer games, because you understand they are intended to be used, you goober. Just use save states if your on a emulator, the codes are annoying.

They used passcodes because of hardware limitations, and they'd have implemented modern save systems if they could. They literally do, same people making games now put saves in because fucking obviously. They're great. Passcodes suck.

>>10604393
There's no "filler" in manga you fucking moron. Filler is an anime specific term for non adapted episodes made to pad out screen time. It doesn't apply to random wandering plots that aren't adaptations.

Since gaming itself isn't really a skill or something you should be proud of, save states don't matter. If you want to experience any work of entertainment the way its creators intended it to be experienced, then do that. If you want something else out of it, do that, instead. It doesn't matter.
I don't cook naked so I can feel hardcore about it, and I don't think wearing an apron makes someone a sissy. If you're good at something and want to challenge yourself in some way, I won't judge, but assuming you already have the determination, then I think it should be put to productive use.
Games just happen to be a very accessible, low-hanging outlet where no new discovery happens, which is part of their comfort. You just rode the same roller coaster, riding on the track that the engineers designed to an ending that you didn't control, but you needed to feel like you rode it better than some imagined other person. That's okay if it's what you wanted, but I don't respect it.

>>10605830
>Just use save states if your on a emulator, the codes are annoying.
Are we even on the same page? I'm okay with using save states to bypass password systems (as long as it doesn't give you an advantage) or leaving the console on over night. It's when you use save states to cheat game-overs that I begin to have a problem with them.

>>10605650
>>10605545
Basically this

>>10605224
>their inclusion has not been removed for over 20 years for a reason
Yeah, it trivializes part of the challenge of the games, hence why they are so popular and included with all the older releases now.

>>10605392
What singleplayer sports do you know of? I can only think of one: track. And in track you don't get a do over when you mess up.

>>10605654
Shitter cope: the post

>>10605798
Do what you want in your own home's privacy but if you post on the internet that you beat a game using save states expect to be called out on it.

>>10605904
>singleplayer sports
Irrelevent non-point.

Even in team sports you can still practice all you want. You don’t learn to play just by competing. You don’t need to play a whole game of basketball and wait for your opportunity to shoot a basket, you can just practice shooting the ball by yourself. You can do that 1000 times if you want before you even play a game.

I can beat the most advanced Chess A.I. in the world as long as I am allowed infinite take-backs.

>>10605904
Golf
Bowling
Darts

>in track you don't get a do over when you mess up.
Yes, you do. You get as many chances as you want to set a record. Which is how option C is working. Keep the discussion straight or don't reply at all.

>>10604180
You didn't beat the game, but nobody cares.

>>10605780
Exactly.

>>10605819
People would enjoy games more if they didn't force themselves to complete everything just because they can (by cheating). Why do you not want to play the game by the rules? Do the rules, and therefore the game, suck? Maybe you just don't like it?

>>10604180
E. Use them in games with passwords or no save system. In the case of the former it's a cope for being too cheap to put in a battery backup. In the latter's case I hate having to repeat certain actions or areas just to get back to the part where I'm having trouble. I hated doing that as a kid and hate it more now. Repetition fatigue just makes me hate a game.
>>10604393
>>10604478
>EWWWWW DRAWN BOOBS I AM SO MATURE FOR BEING DISGUSTED
Ironically, the manchild response.

Save states? I just play on the console.

>>10605909
what am i coping about? that I can't brag i played the game without save states?
I know this might seem unrealistic to someone like you, but i promise you - i'm not heartbroken about it

Here's where you fall - you can't picture yourself in a position where you don't care, so you convince yourself that others are simply ignorant to a grand achievement you have taken for yourself

>>10604180
It depends on the genre and platform. On arcade I do C. If I'm playing ghosts n goblins, and credit feed a checkpoint, it would be the same thing as a save state at that checkpoint. On console games it's a mix of B and C. Like I will save state the password screen, like in lolo. Or in games like ninja gaiden, I'm gonna need to practice the 2nd phase of last boss instead of doing the whole stage over and over again.
I will save though that >>10604228 has some merit.

>>10605912
I'm fine with being called out, and surely I understand that there is a big difference in beating a game with save states vs saving only when it was possible on original hardware.
That said, nobody should seethe if a manchild like me uses save states in his basement, at night (possibly naked).

>>10606162
>I'm fine with being called out,
Nah you're pretty mad or you wouldn't be making these defensive posts.

>>10606142
You.
Did.
Not.
Beat.
The.
Game.

>>10604180
who cares, do what you want to maxamize your enjoyment, but you did not beat the game or the challenge that developers laid out for you, it is cheating

>>10605218
I'm glad you don't know what twitter looks like

>>10604543
manuals are fair game, anyone who says otherwise is a faggot/troll.

>>10604527
From your perspective choosing the lowest difficulty in a game is going to ruin your first playthrough.

>>10606171
you keep saying that, but I didn't say "beat" in my replies
go freshen up buddy, maybe unclog your eyes, you'll be able to read better
better yet, no need for the obnoxious text formatting

>>10604180
Somewhere between B/C:
I will allow them to cut out time wasters. For example, I might use them to retry a tough gran turismo license testswithout having to keep watching the intro each time

>>10606228
That's all this discussion is about. Beating games.
Otherwise you're just blabbering on for no reason at all.

You: I didn't beat the game! Give me attention!
Others: why?
You: because I want the same attention as people who did beat the game!
Others: well you can't have it until you beat the game!
You: Fuck you! I don't have to beat a game to be involved in discussions about beating video games!
Others: fuck off retard

>>10604714
My nigga we are talking about ninja gaiden not dark souls.
Literally all you have to do in older games is get good, no amount of reading shit or watching retards play a game will make you good at arcade style games. Please kill yourself.

>>10606258
based

>>10604180
or another option: I use a save state to help me access easily the favorite part of a game.

>>10604180
B) is how we did it in the 90's.

>>10606243
do you always imagine conversations?

>>10606329
This is a discussion about beating games using save states.
No one cares if you use saves to *not* beat a game lmao

>>10604180
i have rewind bound to left trigger and i git commit after each session

>>10606329
>shitter too stupid to understand the idea of paraphrasing

>>10606169
OMG
I'm .... maaaad!!!
My.... my hemorroids!!! So much blood!!!

>>10604180
I have no need for savestates as I just load a TAS file and let the game play for me.
My time is valuable as an adult so I can also browse reddit or tiktok while gaming.

>>10604180
C. I try not to even practice too much though, since I like not knowing for sure whether I'll be able to get my 1CC or not. I just like to have a plan before I start trying actual runs.

It's like using a dev console

C if warranted, otherwise B. Also, you can use savestates in place of passwords or savepoints.

>>10606368
You are extremely buttmad.
>>10605627
>People who actually play video games instead of farting around pretending to play them.
And you are unintelligent. Imagine being this addicted to validation.

>>10605852
Because video games are toys made for fun

>>10606654
No. They are tools made for me to exercise my superiority over other humans. That is why savestates are a sin.

i feel like they eliminate artificial tedium introduced by bad game designers who think repetition of monotonous tasks is somehow good gameplay.

>>10606659
Doesn't that mean that the game developers will always be superior to you?

>>10606662
Not at all, most game devs suck at their own games.

>>10604180
Is it valid to use savestates as a way to skip loading screens, unskippable cutscenes you've already seen, game over screens, and the tedium of going back to the main menu to pick your save again?
https://youtu.be/sSoQWmcr5mc?t=207

>>10604180
Do whatever you want to do. I use them all the time to see different outcome dialogue and along with fast forward to cut down on tedium in 100 hour rpgs.

>>10606201
Nah, that's still playing by the game's rules ultimately.

>>10606689
You can crank up the disc read speed to bypass most loading times these days.

>>10606689
Only when you are practicing.
You should do at least one full run with no states at all to claim completion.

I’d say B myself generally.

I’m not interested in the purity spiral of “does this playthrough count?” That will only drive you crazy. Eventually you’ll be questioning if you really beat a game because you saw a video once that said a certain weapon is good against a boss or something.

I also have no problem looking up what to do or sometimes where collectables are because that’s not the kind of challenge I’m interested in. I want to know where to go and what to do, but the challenge to be actually doing it. That doesn’t mean I have a guide open next to me at all times or anything, but if I go like 10 minutes wandering around with no direction I’ll just look up what the next step is. Getting stuck because you don’t know where to do feels like watching a movie and suddenly having the characters just sit there for twenty minutes with no progression.

I’m just speaking for myself, by the way. You guys can do whatever you want.

>>10606659
Sure thing king

Taking away your checkpoints, while cheap, was one of the most effective ways to raise stakes in games, and it's not something that has been replaced well. The closest is souls mechanics which is kind of a roundabout way of doing the same punish on a player which is time lost.

It's just such an effective way of giving a sense of wonder and how decisions moment to moment matter if the boss kills you and then you have to go back a certain way.

It even means bosses an enemies need to be better designed as it has to feel like you COULD beat him with one more go.

The purist example of the game teaching you this stuff is the hallway of death with the knights and projectiles in Castlevania 1 just before you fight death.

You will be a master of the game whe you beat this, and you have two options, beat death with holy water but reserve the holy water on a perfect run, or fight him on expert with whip. But if it just had you fight him with tree checkpoints in the fight and you could do it again and again it's just not as good.

It's like everything: we want to defang games of their best ways to connect with players. We want horror movies with no jump scares, action movies with no explosions, films where the good guys don't win, books with no discernable plot, franchises with no fan service and games with no life system.

>>10604196
Then you should have no problem with B, because B is just "leaving your console running", but actually using your computer for the other uses.

>>10607149
>Castlevania 1
Would castlevania have been improved if you were sent back to the very first stage every 4 attempts you made on the hallway?

>>10607149
>We want horror movies with no jump scares, action movies with no explosions, films where the good guys don't win, books with no discernable plot, franchises with no fan service and games with no life system.
retarded nonsense analogy

>>10604705
this is kinda dumb because the format you're talking about originated with arcade games where people would generally credit feed to learn a game before attempting prestige single credit runs. at that point your only argument is the increased efficiency of save states and it lacking the out of universe punishment of inserting quarters.

>>10604180
Shouldn't be used for gameplay, it ruins the game. I use them if I see a cool glitch or something unusual. Losing all your living and starting over is part of gaming.

>>10604436
I made a bunch of saves on snes mini because of the replays it shows

>>10607149
When every life counts and finding more coins or rings because a boss is coming up then if you lose and have to start again that just fine too, you can try again another day instead of becoming bored of it.

>>10606172
Use savestates and beat the game in 20 minutes or play for real and take 10 hours. You've just rushed through and ruined any surprises so you'll never want to play it again.

>>10607314
thinking about to be honest on some very long games I did use option B and practiced some fights on really hard games

>>10604543
>Is reading the manual cheating?
No because you were actively expected to read the manual on the ride home from the store as a kid.

fucking lol - if I was still a kid with like a million years of free time I'd say save states ain't it but once you're an old fuck playing this shit again for the 10th time to suck up all those traces of dopamine you used to have back in your untouched kid mind you don't have the time to fuck around without save states.

Some old games were just fucking brutal about wasting your time, don't get me started on fucking dodging lightning in FFX

>>10604180
>D
with a caveat that if abused they do cheapen the experience and are not a way the game was meant to be played.
C: 'its just for practice' is a copium for those who won't ever try to beat it legit.
B: 'its a way to save' is a copium for those who can't deal with a fact that if a game doesn't have a save feature then it was meant to be beaten in a single sitting.
A: is purists cope.
>t. a faggot who savestated his way through Ecco1 and kinda regrets it but not really.

>>10604191
My exact opinion.

>>10604180
i only use them to cut out tedium
like if there's a hard level, i might savestate the beginning of it, so if i fail i don't need to wait for loads or re-entering the stage or what-have-you

on a related note, what do you think of fast-forwarding emulation?

>>10604196
it's only cheating if you ignore the rules agreed on by those who are playing, when you're playing by yourself, you can't cheat (or at best, you could argue you're cheating yourself, depending on how you look at it)
there are ways to use save-states to remove annoying parts of the game without affecting the fun parts, but then there's also ways to use them to remove the challenge of the game as well, so it's a powerful tool that requires self-discipline to use appropriately

>>10604705
games are a form of entertainment
if you're struggling with a 10 second segment with 5 minutes of gameplay to get another chance at it, then you may not be having much fun
now yes, it's more satisfying to beat it without any crutches, but who are you to tell others how to enjoy games?
at best you can argue they're cheating themselves out of the feeling of beating it completely as intended

>>10606258
>i can't infer the parallels being drawn between the picture and undisclosed overuse of savestates

>>10604180
Games are entertainment so I'll use whatever tool I can to squeeze as much fun as I can. Cheats, hacks, telling little kids I've done their mom on xbox live...

>>10606258
>no amount of reading shit or watching retards play a game will make you good at arcade style games.
scrub talk

>>10604180
if you have completed the game before without using them, then any subsequent playthrough is purely to have fun (and not to "complete" it), so savescumming is ok.

if you are enjoying a game, but are having troubles getting past a certain part, and you are either going to drop it completely or savescum to pass that tricky part, then savescumming is ok.

if you are a casual player wanting to experience a game but dont want to invest the hundreds of hours to "get good", then save scumming is ok

just dont pretend you have finished the game without cheats if you used a save state for anything other than saving your game (on the overworld for example)

>>10604180
D who cares first and foremost.
Personally, if I'm playing a game for the challenge I don't use them. Otherwise if I'm just casually playing I'll just use them or rewinds. Why not?

>>10604180
I think its fine saving at the beginning of a stage, but saving and loading during action is kinda lazy and cheap.

C

>>10604274

I savestate all the time. Do you think you're in control, you little game? HA. You will bend to my will. Wrong result? I load the state. You try again. And again. And again, until you get the message to drop the item I want. Try to mislead me into a dead end corridor? Too bad, I just reloaded and took the correct path now. No more tricks. I know you'll try, but you CANNOT beat me.

>>10604180
D.

I used savestates all the time back before I got original hardware. These days I let games filter me as God intended. I like it more this way. Only gripe is that the extra time it takes to get into the game can mean I won't even boot up the game. I have a kid and time needs to be managed more tightly.

>>10604180
D really as I don't care what others do

I did find out I can enjoy a game more if I just don't use them at all. Using save states disrupts the game in such a big way it just feels of, even with sporadic use of save states.
>But I don't want to replay the same levels
Fuck off, if you like a game (or anything in general really) then repetition should not be an issue. Also why do people get upset for replaying the first levels in Castlevania but dont mind to replay the same sections (because of backtracking/whatever) in e.g. SotN or Super Metroid.
>But my time is valuable!
Valuable for what? to consume as much as possible in the least amount of time? Do you really want quantity over quality?

>>10607906
t.

In resident Evil 2, you save before a boss fight where there's a cut-scene just before, every time you lose you've to watch the cutscene. It's really annoying.

But it forces you to really think about what items you are going to bring into the fight next time.

It forces you to play better during the fight.

It gives you time to anticipate the battle.

It allows you to actually remember here was a room closer to the boss you are completely forgetting, that gets you even closer

It makes you feel elation beating the boss.

It makes you want to play the game again because now you've the skills to steam roll much of the game through you're memorization.

Now wit you using save states to cut all tat out, or even for instance if the devs allow you to save at any time and save scum;

The only way to provide these same feelings is to artificially make the actual boss fight way harder than it needs to be, and probably an hour twenty minutes long.

So enemy encounters and things all have to get harder just to account for your saving, which you can probably do mid fight anyway.

>>10608073
>Stockholm syndrome

>>10608073
>it forces you, it gives you, it allows you, it makes you
That's a lotta horseshit

>>10604180
I've never heard of any of these opinions except D.

What kinda incel generation is telling others they didn't beat a game because they saved? LOL

>>10608128
I can't talk about RE2 since I don't play weebshit, but save states do make people lazy since they can continuously retry whenever they fail.
In general without save states you find out that the penalty of death can be hard and you want to avoid it at all cost, motivates you to just git gud instead

>>10608073
>dying in Resident Evil 2
You're beyond saving.

>>10608179
>Git gud
List a few games where save states with imulation is a problem. Chances are I rented and beat that shit before I was 10 and I suck at vieo games.

>>10608073
I spend a lot of time in my basement but, oh boy, oh boy, surely you need some fresh air

>>10607480
Your opinion on B is utter horseshit. You could always pause a game and pick it up later. The devs put nothing to prevent you from doing this. Also your excessive use of “copium” and “cope” only shows how mindbroken you are.

Save-scumming isn’t even fun. Does this look fun to you? I could maybe agree with B or C but people who use save states or rewind like this aren’t even enjoying the game. It’s like someone who watches movies fast-forwarded, he just wants to get to the end.

You can claim that your time is too valuable to learn how to beat games properly, but if that’s true, cheating to “beat” more games is objectively a bigger waste of your time.

>>10608152
>immediately pulls the incel card because he sucks at games

Sad.

>>10608451
>You could always pause a game and pick it up later.
Yeah, you could, true.
Please, tell me the title of a game that you cant complete in one sitting that has no save feature?

>>10608558
NTA but as a kid whenever I had school or had to go to bed and I was getting far in something... I'd just keep the console powered on until I could go and play it again, to pick up from where I left off, I avoid using save states like this and do my best to beat it all in a single sitting when it has neither passwords or save system, but I don't think using save states for this would make a run not legit...

>>10608590
This is the obvious answer as I did this as well. I'm starting to think anti savestate-chan doesn't actually play video games.

>>10604180
Perfect for Ninja Gaiden.

>>10608771
Maybe they play games, but since that's all they've builty their personalities on they can't wait to get mad and show they're true old-school hardcore retrogamers

Resetting without saving after a mistake is effectively save stating.

>>10608558
When you're on your first playthrough of a tough game you probably can't beat it in one sitting. Using the "leave the console on overnight" trick becomes desirable when you finally get past the one level and don't want to play it again until you beat the rest of the game.

Anyway: Battletoads.

>>10608152
>because they saved
Save stating is essentially turning on God mode giving you invincibility if you abuse it hard enough.

If it's a game I don't really care about putting another feather in my gamer cap over I will save state in order to consume the game's content. Note I did not say I beat the game, and I won't tell anyone else I beat the game. I will always use terms like "played through".
Or I will always mention the caveat that I used some save states in order to make the experience more expedited.
If it's a game that I consider to be one of my all time favorites I will go to the trouble of making a clean run with zero save stating or pausing (arcade games usually don't include a pause feature).

So to give an example, I have never gotten around to playing through any of the Dragon Quest games. I can tell you right off the bat if i ever try to do that I will be using fast forward and save states as needed to make the game take 20 hours to complete instead of 40. I am not going to sit there and grind levels fighting the same exact enemy 20 times in a row mashing the confirm attack button. I'll see if I can get through the game with minimal grinding anyway, but if I need to I'm going to hit that fast forward button for sure. But the thing is I'm not going to go around saying I beat the game after. Because I didn't.
I just "played through" it.

>>10608245
Posts like this are an concession that the person you are replying to is correct.
If you had a real counter argument you'd use it.

>>10609184
How noble of you
>>10609189
I accept your concessions

>>10609184
I think using the term "played through it" instead of "beat it" if using save states is a compromise I can get behind, anon! In this spreadsheet I have, where I put everything I beat, I do put stuff when I use save states or cheats, but specify that I did in an extra column, while I don't see the issue on save states, having fun is what's important, I do feel that there's a huge difference if you use it.

I have used them in the past when I was going to give up on something I was playing, as a way for me to just get to the end, and I loved the way you put it, I "played through it", but I didn't "beat it".

It's like, this isn't good enough for me to put the time into getting truly good at it, but I'm fond of it enough that I want to play all levels and see it all myself, not through a video, so I'll just use it.

I still think that, if I do like what I'm playing, even if it has limited lives/continues and/or is tough as hell, I'll still try to not use anything that qualifies as cheating, not for pride, but because learning from your failures and seeing yourself getting better is what makes retro video games so good to me for the most part, though of course for it to be truly enjoyable the title has to be good too.

>>10609197
There has to be a concession to accept one, for example insubstantial parroting of someone else's assertion is tacit concession.

>>10609149
Battletoads has warps, as does smb123 and other games. While not strictly a save/password system, they are an interesting exception, since they serve a similar purpose of letting you skip ahead to where you were, without having to replay from the beginning. Warps are arguably a "legal" basis for limited savestating in games which have them.

>>10609250
How do you get to a warp without playing from the beginning?

>>10608179
what the fuck do you play if you consider re2 weebshit? defender and gauntlet?

>>10609267
this is semantics. of course you start as normal, but you skip over large chunks that would normally be required to get to that point. in that sense, it's similar but not identical to save/password.

>>10608558
>he actually thought this was a gotcha

For one, I’ll pause a game whenever I want for however long I want. Second, I could simply not want to go find a save point when something comes up that makes me have to put the game down.

What an utterly failed argument.

>>10609232
Your surrender is noted

>>10609363
you didn't beat the game

>>10609417
Citation needed.

>>10609336
Learning about and getting to a warp is required before you can warp, it requires some gameplay from the beginning which is the distinction from saves, save stating, or passwords.

>>10609435
kek

>>10608464
What happened to David Jaffe?

>>10609476
a game as long and segmented as mario 3 has no reason to be completed in one sitting, using save states at world start is essentially fixing a developer/hardware failure.

It's like that
>people play on 'easy' because they just want to relax
If you just want to breeze through the game without getting frustrated, just seeing what it's like, just save scum.
If you want to actually face the challenge that it is at it's meant to be, don't use save states except for pause or to substitute the in-game save for whatever reason.

>>10609515
Lol, lmao. Lmfao, even. Anon, game overs in SMB3 send you to the start of the world you died in. Did you even play SMB3?

>>10604180
I'm and oldfag and played these games in their respective eras. I don't like wasting my time in cheap death areas so I'm fine with save states and emulation. If I ever sell my retro stuff I can buy another house, bike and a nice new fishing boat. I'm just too damn sentimental. I'll let my children sell it off or keep what they want when I'm in the dirt. Save your physical media and consoles zoomers. Some faggot will pay a shit ton for nostalgia and to feel the fleeting moment of youth again.

>>10609453
Your princess is in another castle

>>10604180

If you use states, you're a scum and you should die. You're a fake gamer and a faggot

>>10609816
>I don't like wasting my time in cheap death areas
If you truly felt that way you wouldn't post here, and on the extreme end you'd have ended it already, life should be embraced for the challenge it is.

>>10609889
You're retarded. When you realize time is precious you will understand. Also, lurk moar before you address the old guard.

>>10609976
Your sacred time offers advice you don't follow. How precious.

>>10610007
Give it time zoomie or millennial. I want to enjoy my time gaming and its mostly retro, since many new games are woke trash or open world fetch loops. Your reaction time is going to slow with age. You won't be be able to beat R-Type anymore without a save state or two. You are here. Learn something from those wiser than you.

>>10610025
>retrograde affectatious pleading
If you can't enjoy a game unless you win then I can see why you feel a need to "win" this conversation. Go ahead and reply, you know you've won.

>>10610064
If you're not playing to win you're not playing the game.

>>10610230
Says you, playing yourself.

>>10609782
yes? that's the crux of my argument, zero reason to be completed in one sitting when the game is based around the worlds.

Turbo chads where we at

>>10607620
I don't even support the use of savestates, but that image is completely irrelevant to the discussion. It's closer to people who use trainers or action replays instead of people who use guides and spoilers.

>>10610290
Playing a game is a tedious trial of the unknown and the familiar. That's life, which you blind yourself to by forcing yourself through it. How blind are you?

>>10610310
that's a neat little phrase, I'm still right.

>>10609879
Oh, we have a "gamer" here, LOL
Do you also have a job?
Do you clean your bedroom once in a while?

>>10610290
Many retro games of the 8 and 16bit era had difficulty increased do to the rental model of the west. Japan had no such issue so they made the western release much harder to beat in a day. Try Bayou Billy US and then play Jp version or Castlevania, etc. I rest my case.

>>10610293
Let me break it down for you, anon: both the image and the original post it was responding to were talking about the type of people who use some form of aid to complete a game, then pretend like they didn't so they can look down on others. It's not about comparing guides to savestates.

>>10604180
Would've never gotten a 102% and on DKC 2 and 3 without them.

>>10610551
Honest anon
Still an aficionado of retrogames
You're my brother
Let those "real gamers" seethe

>>10604180
i only save state on gameovers with continues or passwords.
>implying i didnt leave my nintendo on all night to come back and play again later

>>10609816
>I can buy another house, bike and a nice new fishing boat.
Sounds a bit too optimistic. Most retro stuff still isn't worth that much no?

>>10608464
I saw someone play super ghouls and ghosts once like that
Was painful to watch lol.

>>10604180
Any adult with real life obligations wouldn't give two fucks about using save states.

>>10604180
Feel like you have to pay.

>>10604180
I rarely use them these days because they're not possible on real hardware, but I don't really give a shit if other people use them.

>>10604180
I mean if Im doing a video, I like to use them to reload and do a boss fight or something over because sometimes its not fucking exciting enough and you just shit all over the enemy and it looks stupid. So I try and be more retarded/extremist in my movement and get a better recording in a different try

>>10610746
That's it.
End of thread.

All those who seethe, maybe you have too much free time. Or simply you are pathetic zoomers who are trying to build your personality (if not your persona) on games. We are not forcing you to use save states, ok? Ok?

>>10610848
See
>>10605806

Your cope has already been deconstructed.

>>10604180
Objectively a good feature, because there's no downsides. If you don't want them, don't use them... nobody's forcing you. I personally use them to emulate leaving the console on - if I want to stop playing, I'll stop playing - no need to reach the next save point or whatever.

>>10604186
The bottom of the barrel always comes first.

>>10604180
>Save States. How do you feel about them?
They're only acceptable if you're playing a long game without built in saves, or that uses ridiculously long passwords in place of a back up save.

>>10610025
>You won't be be able to beat R-Type anymore without a save state or two.
This must be how former Olympians feel

>>10605805
Okay, you don't have much time to play.
Why cheat?
You didn't play the game long enough to reach the ending. So what? Why is this a problem? Surely you were having fun playing the game, otherwise you wouldn't play it at all. Is that not enough of a reward in itself?
If you're going to abuse savestates you might as well just look up the ending of the game on Youtube.

>>10610856
Cope for what?
I admit using save states makes the games easier.

You mad

>>10611192
I'm using savestates AND ending the games.
It doesn't count as "beating" (LOL) ?
>"yuo dindt akshually beat game reee"
Fine, anyway I get to see the end of it.
I prefer playing, but I also watched videos on YT. I didn't bother to learn Japanese just to see some obscure JRPG animations.

I'm a libertarian. I do not say you must use savestates.
Why are you telling me not to use them? Does it harm you in anyway? It's not like I come here and brag about not using them...

>>10604180
I only ever use them when absolutely necessary. Such as when I get soft-locked or need to skip cutscenes that are otherwise unskippable.

>>10609476
Fair enough, that's a valid distinction. But once you've discovered a warp, can you savestate accordingly?

>>10610290
Yea, not sure what that anon was refuting, if anything. Mario3's warp whistles are interesting in that they give you substantially more access than is typical, letting you skip through the various worlds. This seems to be a workaround to make up for the lack of save/passwords, which they would've put in if it were feasible, especially considering the items you collect.
The evidence is consistent with what you said: savestating at the start of each world is fixing a hardware limitation.

>>10611119
This is the worst password system I have encountered in my gaming year. 40 character password you had to enter with a controller. You had to jolt it down on a piece of paper the first time too.

>>10611445
>You had to jolt it down on a piece of paper the first time too.
Not sure is zoom larper or honest mistake... I say zoom larper.

>>10611449
I missed something?

>>10604180
B is a perfectly acceptable use
>>10604190
This once in a while. I've had games that I loved to death where I had to redo sections for hours and I was getting a bit pissed and I didn't want to destroy my nice time I had, so I used them, or a walkthrough, or putting it temporarily easier to pass that hurdle
But only once in a while. Don't be a scrub and play games with save/load constantly... it really ain't fun that way

>>10611453
Yep zoom zoom

>>10611445
i only see 24 character, pretty long, but i'm not familiar with that game, it depends on what it records in the password
>>10611449
not him or a zoomer, but what are you getting at? back in the day you did have to jot down the passwords on paper, what else were you going to do? write it on a computer? nope, that's probably not in the same room, if you had a computer at all. take a photo? and what, wait until the roll is done so you can develop it before you can use it? nope. record it to vhs? may be an option, but will be a bitch to sort through once you have more than a handful of passwords to handle, and you can't write down what each password is for

>>10611487
Yeah, 24, I can't count. Game had different endings and paths. Password was for those iirc. Had a lot of fun with it.

>>10604180
Ive been pc gaming my whole life, the concept of shaming someone for saving a game after a difficult part is too foreign too me, so i have no problem with it whenever i play on emulators, that being said, if i like the game enough to play it over and over, then i get good enough at it to the point where i just forget to quick save, and it suck when i die and get thrown to the star of the level with no weapons, or have to reload a save that was 10 maps back, but im also kind proud of myself for not dying for this long, id feel no pride in finishing a game without saves that i do not enjoy.

>>10611528
i remember some games had different passwords lengths as well
like in crash bandicoot there were regular passwords (8 symbols) and super passwords (24 symbols), regular ones only saves levels and keys, while super passwords also saved gems
while crash bandicoot was on a system that had a memory card (playstation), it was something you had to buy separately, so some early games had passwords as an option in case you didn't own a memory card yet

>>10611529
yea, pc games often let you save almost anywhere, sometimes even literally anywhere

>>10604180
I don't use them. The only exception was Monster World IV a few years ago because Kega refused to save my game and I could never find a fix, so I just made a save state whenever I reached a save point in-game.
And this might sound austistic, but I don't even use them for passwords. I write them down and put them manually like we used to. It just feels right.

>>10611435
That Kid Chameleon warp takes you from the first level to the last level of the game, if you can't stand playing one stage to reach the end of the game then you clearly can't enjoy the game at its easiest and will pointlessly frustrate yourself with the absurd difficulty spike. As for SMB3, save stating at the start of each world is equally pointless, game overs restart you in the world you died in. Definitely the worst example given ITT.

>>10605694
It is just cope. Beating a game like Ninja Gaiden by just practicing the levels takes less time investment than any modern open world time-waster game. A lot of people who spend all of their time playing video games can't be bothered to get good at them. In fighting games they call that type of person a scrub.

>>10611337
If you preferred playing you wouldn't skip playing, the issue is regarding anons trying to have meaningful discussions despite trivializing the gameplay. If they kept their thoughts about a game to themselves there'd be no reason to justify save state usage at all here, in fact these anons would best enjoy commenting on YouTube instead.

>>10612181
Not familiar with Kid Chameleon, that sounds like an outlier when it comes to warps. In any case, if I were playing it, I'd play through the whole game, and if I messed up at the end and had to start over, I'd go for the warp. From there, if I was struggling with the final boss, I'd seriously consider save-stating after warping (and that after playing all the way through) so I wouldn't have to deal with the tedium of replaying level 1. That's what I was thinking of. Again, that's an extreme example.

>As for SMB3, save stating at the start of each world is equally pointless, game overs restart you in the world you died in.
the point isn't to avoid the consequences of a game over, which as you said are forgiving in smb3. Rather, it's using savestates to get through the game without doing it all in one sitting (which is clearly not intended), and without losing your items/stats. You can also skip the warp whistles that way, or use them for the vanilla experience and then load state. smb3 is a fine example, since savestating at the beginning of worlds augments the game with a functionality that was likely intended, but couldn't be put in.

>>10612245
You're right, it is an extreme example. If someone finds the process of beating one stage for an endgame warp tedious then clearly they feel the game is tedious altogether and should choose a game they like to replay instead. If a player can't enjoy replaying a retro game because they feel it's technologically constrained it means they don't enjoy retro gaming in general and should stick with modern casual games like Super Mario Wonder where game overs are punished with extra lives and unlocking a bonus stage.

That aside, why did Nintendo include warp whistles in SMB3 if not to assist players getting to the end of the game in one sitting? That considered, SMB3 has a scoring system which encourages you to collect as many coins, defeat as many enemies, and clear as many stages as possible to get the highest score in a sitting. There's a reason you lose your score and restart the world by getting a game over, SMB3 wanted you to enjoy the process of learning its stages and worlds. SMB3 has excellent accessibility with its warp whistles and even better replay value with its scoring system, something save state users don't appreciate because they would rather trivialize the challenge rather than learn from it.

>>10612226
NTA but a lot of times I'm just eager to play that point I got stuck on, it's not that I dislike playing the first few sections and need to skip it all, I'm fine with replaying it and it's fun too, but what's keeping me truly engaged is the stuff I failed at, the part that's been beating me and the point I stopped at, and in my mind I'm excited to replay that instead, it's just a way of saving time really.

I think a playthrough without them is more legit than one with them, I don't see the issue in their use as long as its specified, we're all having a bit of fun and if anyone enjoys using them, it's fine.

>>10612503
Beating one stage is generally not tedious, and usually I wouldn't mind. I meant in the specific situation of struggling with the final boss, meaning I'm hitting a wall and I have to keep going through a stage to practice, in which case I might use a savestate after the warp to get it down.
I don't have a problem with technical constraints, sometimes they bring out more, eg pixel art. But there are specific cases where intended but lacking savepoints can be filled in by savestates. I think doing a complete playthrough of smb3 is one of those cases.
You make a good point regarding game overs, but again, it's not about avoiding justified consequences, or trivializing challenges.

>That aside, why did Nintendo include warp whistles in SMB3 if not to assist players getting to the end of the game in one sitting?
you can use them to skip to world 8, but you can also use them to catch up to wherever you made progress to. In which case, you lose the scoring (which is significant, as you said) just because you didn't want to play a marathon and took breaks.
I feel like we're not on the same page here. My claim is that savestates may be justified for practicing an especially difficult part, or for saving your progress in games like smb3 where you can't but should. I'm also saying that the presence of warps provides greater "legal" support for limited savestating, since the game itself lets you skip ahead to some extent.

>>10612503
Beating one stage is generally not tedious, and usually I wouldn't mind. I meant in the specific situation of struggling with the final boss, meaning I'm hitting a wall and I have to keep going through a stage to practice, in which case I might use a savestate after the warp to get it down.
I don't have a problem with technical constraints, sometimes they bring out more, eg pixel art. But there are specific cases where intended but lacking savepoints can be filled in by savestates. I think doing a complete playthrough of smb3 is one of those cases.
You make a good point regarding game overs, but again, it's not about avoiding justified consequences, or trivializing challenges.
>That aside, why did Nintendo include warp whistles in SMB3 if not to assist players getting to the end of the game in one sitting?
you can use them to skip to world 8, but you can also use them to catch up to wherever you made progress to. In which case, you lose the scoring (which is significant, as you said) just because you didn't want to play a marathon and took breaks.

I feel like we're not on the same page here. My claim is that savestates may be justified for practicing an especially difficult part, or for saving your progress in games like smb3 where you can't but should. I'm also saying that the presence of warps provides greater "legal" support for limited savestating, since the game itself lets you skip ahead to some extent.

muh backlog

>>10611487
>back in the day you did have to jot down the passwords on paper, what else were you going to do?
Yeah, that's why pointing it out was pointless. It's like pointing out you have to use the buttons on a controller to play a game like it's a hassle.

>>10611469
what did anon miss?

Passwords were kind of nice because you could read them in a magazine and use them to skip levels.

>>10604180
B for most games. D for jarpigs. Jarpigs force you to wait all the time, and no one should be forced to sit through hour long spell animations, slow as shit movement speed, battle load times, and fodder encounters that require no strategy except spamming your strongest spells (99% of encounters). You're there for everything except the gameplay, unless it's a rare jarpig that forgoes waitshit for passable fighting game-like skill expression gameplay (Tales of), or a turn-based but all killer no filler jarpig where every encounter forces you to think, which to my knowledge doesn't exist.

.

>>10604180
>How do you feel about them?
Who fucking cares?
Why does this thread need 300 replies?
Why do you need to ask permission for everything you do?
>MOMMY IS IT OK IF I SAVE MY PROGRESS
>W-WHAT IF THE OTHER ANONYMOUS LOSERS MAKE FUN OF ME

Jesus christ. Everyone in this thread should be rangebanned.

>>10612537
Choosing to play a game is not a chore when you don't live to win. Quitting is not disgraceful and returning proves ambition.

>>10612562
Living to win is a fools errand. Success by your own means is the only true satisfaction. Cheating is fine when you can accept it. Nobody cares until everyone finds out.

Without save states, I never would've gotten such a sick fucking name as this

>>10612884
normal people don't seethe about save states.

>>10612884
seriously, are there guys who act like a "real player" because they don't use savestates??

I had games like Plok, Jurassic Park, JP 2, Eek The Cat that I never finished at a time when I had time and I had few games.
so today I have something else to worry about restarting a level dozens of times. yes I have less time, I have too many games waiting.

the time I take to restart a level is time less to discover another game.
I'm 40 and still have 354 games to play, I'll probably die before I finish them all.

>>10613718
>Nobody cares until everyone finds out.
nobody would care about you using save states as an equivalent of a game's pause feature. this is universally accepted and you would be seen as an obsessive compulsive pedant to disagree.

>>10613635
>>10613950
>>10612884
You didn't beat the game.

>>10613957
Does that matter?

>>10614015
Yes because you claim to have beaten the game but you didn't beat the game.
>inb4 I wasn't trying to beat the game
If you're not trying to beat the game you're not playing the game.
>inb4 games with no end point
no really "games" in the strict sense, just virtual sandboxes

>>10613957
You play to get a trophy.
me because I'm curious to see the ending and I want to have a good time.

>>10604180
Depends on the game.

>>10614030
You spelled "no" wrong

Oh boy, another-fuckun-thread about Save States. I wonder what never before seen original opinions /vr/ must have on them...

>>10613957
Cringe.

>>10614512
Because that was worth the bump.

>>10614396
I guess here we all spend more time arguing with other losers than we spendplaying, let alone beating, "the game"

>>10614529
Aw shit! I just lost the game

>>10614529
Hardcore gamer real old-school
No cheats
No emulators
Only real hardware ok?

>>10614396
its these ppl that use savestates and fastforward functions, they feel guilty and try to justify as if anyone fucking cares about them

>>10615126
P....p... please justify me, anon
UwU

I will use save states because I'm not a kid with endless weekends to piss away beating my head against a hard part of a game but i will absolute accept the label of being bitch made because i play games to experience them instead of flexing my skills. Someone that used no or limited save states absolute beat the game more honestly and legitimately than me.

>>10615573
No one actually cares about people using save states, bro. People just like shitting on scrubs.

>>10615573
That's all folks
</thread>

>>10615573
>I will use save states because I'm not a kid with endless weekends to piss away beating my head against a hard part of a game
If you're playing a back to title screen game fine. If you're playing the typical level/checkpoint based game that's kinda bitchmode.

>>10613951
>Success by your own means is the only true satisfaction.
>Cheating is fine when you can accept it.
We agree.

>>10614396
The true irony of people avoiding repetition by repetitively justifying repetition for progress

>>10615573
There's far better books and movies to consume instead.

>>10615573
okay but you didn't beat the game THO

>>10615714
Sure, and you didn't have to be an obnoxious faggot about it.

>>10615746
He at least beat the game (you just lost it)

>>10615837
game's over

>>10604180
Save states are part of what made Retsupurae entertaining to watch.
https://youtu.be/GyBBIm3CwjM

Play games however you want, I don't give a fuck, I'm not your dad. Just saying that playing two seconds of a game over and over while constantly reloading savestates is annoying and not fun at all.

>>10615573
Might as well watch a movie then. You're the reason they make games a 5 year old can beat.

>>10604180
I use save states all the time but only under specific situations. Like if I just saved normally and there is a hard boss fight that has an unskipable cutscene right before it. Using a save state right before it starts only makes sense and is not cheating but saving your precious time.

>>10615714
You beat so many games, anon.
You must be so strong, like they say, a real gamer.
Show those people that use savestates that they are wrong.
It's not about electronic toys anymore. We are real gamers, and they are not.
It is a matter of sexual identity.
We are real gamers.... we are real gamers... they're not.... no.... don't use savestates... no.... reeeee

If a game is bullshit I make a save date and repeat the section until I beat it. I'm gonna die one day and it'll probably come out of nowhere, I'm not wasting time playing the same thing I've already beaten until that point. I don't care if it's the real experience if I want actual art I'll watch a film or read a book. Video games are fun and something cheap killing me is not fun. It's just that simple

>>10616631
>If a game is bullshit I make a save date and repeat the section until I beat it.
But why play that game in the first place? You are obviously not enjoying yourself with it if you think its a timewaster by replaying earlier content.

Relevant.

>>10616652
i never said the whole thing was bullshit you argumentative man child. I don't care to waste time that could be spent with people I love on a section that was designed to pad out the run time. I play these games to experience the atmosphere of the sprites on my crt and have some fun. I don't enjoy not finishing things and save states help with that. Video games are about having fun and getting a sense of accomplishment. Using save states does not affect my sense of accomplishment and anyone who says they don't is an asshurt hipster and just as bad as speedrunners

>>10616682
YDNBTG

>>10616696
I did and you can stay asshurt

>>10616682
>argumentative man child
Now, now, no need to get offended here.
But I do think you confirmed my point, you just think you like these games and in reality just want to 'experience' them. Like a step in between a youtube longplay and actually playing the game.
The 'I want to spend time with my family' argument doesnt make sense, you decide howmuch time you spend on these, not the game.
>Video games are about having fun and getting a sense of accomplishment.
Okay.

>>10616725
>you think you like these games
what does that even mean. I'm playing them and having fun of course I like them. I don't care to waste time doing the same level over and over again when I've already beaten it. I am ACTUALLY playing the game because I'm playing it.
>The I want to spend time with my family arguement
I play video games in my limited free time and that has to compete with doing something I find more meaningful like reading or watching a film. When I have my time to myself that's me time, it's not competing with family time right that moment. But I only have a limited amount of time a week and that has to compete with things that are much more fulfilling. I would just watch someone play the game if I didn't want to play it.

>>10616734
I love playing darts but I'm not very good at it, so I use a board that helps me a bit.
This makes me feel good as I don't have the time to actually git gud instead

>>10616738
Are you having fun? Yes? Then have fun

>>10616738
Obv shitpost, but even that practice makes you better at darts. The more you do something, the smoother it becomes and the more that you instinctually understand the kinephysiology involved.

>>10616754
Dartboard compensates for all mistakes, yet it somehow makes you play better?
That's not how it works, if anything it just makes you even more lazy as you do not need to put in any effort on your own.
All this teaches you is that you have to throw the dart in the general direction of the board, system will compensate for the rest

>>10604393
>anon refers to an apparently "imaginary" adult person that likes being pandered to with cartoonish boobs and ass as a "horny manchild"
>manchild anons immediately start calling him a faggot because they feel insulted

Like fucking clockwork.

>>10616771
awful analogy even if you save scum you just get more tries at it without wasting time going through the level again like a bitch

>>10616771
You get better at throwing with practice, simple as. You get better at foreign languages by practicing often, even if you fuck it up and make mistakes. There's a limit that mindless practice will provide, but it'll still make someone better at the basic motions of throwing, as they do it more.

>>10616830
He's right you know

if you don't have time for games, then you don't have time to post on /vr/, better get back to your high-powered busy life.

>>10616661
Conflating games with movies does seem to be a common issue nowadays. Games & stories are both something humans have been into since time immemorial, and while they can overlap (RPG elements/choose your own adventure), they're not the same thing.

>>10616771
with a dartboard you can practice individual elements directly. you can aim for the bullseye a 1000 times in a row, you can aim for the outer bullseye a 1000 times in a row. to be analgous with a game the dartboard would only allow you to use it in some kind of drawn out match format where you need to wait your turn and hit specific points in sequence.

>>10616661
>hmmm he's got a point
>and defending serious sam
every time...always in service of a shitty contrarian game.

>>10616795
>>10616830
>>10617084
The cope in these posts is surreal.

>>10604180
D, but you didn't beat the game normally that run if you used them in a manner besides B or similar usages (like recording passwords). Nobody normal is saying you didn't beat a game if you've ever used states, but it's silly to act like you beat the game legitimately when giving yourself infinite health through save states. It's basically like using a game genie. Fun way to play sometimes, but it's not a normal run through a game.

>>10604180
to me it depends.If you can beat it but just are too lazy I find it to be really sad. But I think a good story should never be locked behind a extrem difficulty.

>>10616734
>I'm playing them and having fun of course I like them
>I don't care to waste time playing levels I've already beaten

That seems like you don't care about gameplay and prefer the novelty of viewing new content.

>>10616746
Building a robot and playing darts are completely different activities, completely changing the activity in order to enjoy it is called doing something else.

>>10616830
You don't need a robot to practice throwing, you can learn from your mistakes by playing with a regular dartboard.

>>10617084
Have you played darts? There's tons of different rulesets and they all involve taking turns and targeting numbers.

>>10616225
>Play games however you want, I don't give a fuck, I'm not your dad
If only everyone had this mindset, this board would be a lot nicer or dead.

I came here to make fun of "real gamers" who "beat the game" and you are discussing darts.
.... gay as hell....

If you don't like it, play something else.

>>10618046
>Have you played darts? There's tons of different rulesets and they all involve taking turns and targeting numbers.
yes I know that. but you can practice darts exactly like you can practice a game C without people complaining,

>>10618046
>That seems like you don't care about gameplay and prefer the novelty of viewing new content.
solving a gameplay section a first time is distinct from the more perfunctory execution of it on repeat in gameplay terms.

>>10618046
>That seems like you don't care about gameplay and prefer the novelty of viewing new content.
in gameplay terms solving the section a first time is distinct from the more perfunctory execution of it on repeat.

>>10618220
That's just it, nobody playing a ruleset will take leisurely practiced skills seriously until those skills are applied within a ruleset. If you want to play seriously you may as well practice within a ruleset from the beginning.

>>10618248
It's distinct because it's novel; You don't think about improving your gameplay once you've "solved" it. I bet you "solve" jigsaws with a hammer and glue...

>>10604180
I do B for me personally. D for everybody else.

>>10618395
>how do I beat this boss
>how do I beat this boss with increasingly diminishing returns in efficiency
stop being a sneering pedant for a second and tell me these are exactly the same processes.

I use it a lot to bypass RNG bs, and avoid for skill based.
For example, I was playing Pokemon TCG on the Game Boy and the only way to lose to that stupid AI with my haymaker deck was with bad luck on card draw and coin flips. At that point, it was not skill based anymore. But I wanted to complete my collection and needed booster packs for that. I would beat someone that have the booster I wanted, make a save state, and reroll the booster opening until I get the card I wanted.

>>10618376
it's kind of the difference between playing ball and playing Calvinball.

>>10604180
D

>>10620067
They're the same when you only care about winning while seeing gameplay as a chore.

>>10620284
That's also why Calvin never got into organized sports.

>>10612625
muh backlog
muh games used to be for kids so they needed to be hard
muh adult obligations don't gimme time (Literally an oxymoron to the above muh)
muh bookmark to come back later
muh practice
muh must finish the "bad game" at any cost
muh...

>>10605606
The problem is that to appease your need to finish a game, video games get easier. With ease comes less complexity, less interaction. Your weeheehaha attitude sounds fun in theory and I commend you for being so free-spirited that you still enjoy them but it makes it so that games are less fun in practice. It's the reassertion that games are bad enough that you needed to save state which we hardcore bros take issue with. Do you hoard items in RPG's until the final battle even though you needed them throughout the game? Same attitude but different topic. It's said that Flying Dragon is non-completable because as you collect trinkets or abilities, the algorithm changes based on your decisions. What if you played it and badly overshot getting something you wanted while far in? Either way you don't get to 100% it so it's not the same as a permanently missable situation. Ergo, in theory, the final tally is a gauge of how good you were and how honest you stood by your choices. How many times did you mentally hit that reset button while reading this comment? Zero? A dozen? If the "game" part of "video games" matters to you it'd be the former. It's good to be openminded and give people a wide berth, but you also have to know this probably isn't your battle.

>>10620751
very true. I reread one of my Calvin anthologies recently, and there's an arc where he gets pressured into joining the baseball team, and he ends up getting trolled, it was lolz.
Not that there's anything wrong with making things up on the fly and experimenting, that sort of raw creativity certainly has its place. But it needs a disciplined structure to become meaningful. As always, it's about balance.

>>10609226
Hey, isn't that the ending to Milky Way Wishes in the image?

>>10604180
Can be used for retro shooters and really difficult platformers to practice a stage or a jump for that speedrun skill/1cc completion but won't count as beating the game legit during that load.

Got to start from the beginning and end in a single coin without save scumming.

>>10620858
Impromptu reactions within a structured challenge are why I don't care to use save states at all as I enjoy trying new strategies within the various permutations, players limit themselves to the choices they make after all. I need to reread Calvin and Hobbes, I know the arc you're referencing but only vaguely recall the details. Thanks for mentioning it.

>>10621129
indeed. The larger point I'm making is that you need the creative energy of making things up, but you also need discipline so that it matures into a finished product. This applies to all sorts of things: stories, games, sports, and so on. Too much discipline makes things lifeless and formulaic, too much creativity and it becomes an amorphous blob, unable to take shape.
Which brings us to the controversy of savestates. Any use of them is a departure from the structure of the original game, to a greater or lesser extent. This may be justified in augmenting existing intentions or functions, or taking convenient shortcuts or practice. But if you use them more than sparingly, and outside of strict limits, they end up undermining the structure of the game, eventually dissolving it in the case of savescumming.
As for C&H, no prob. I recommend the anthology books, eg Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", There's Treasure Everywhere!, to name a couple. They're a vital part of any literary collection.

>>10621340
I still don't agree savestates can ever be used to augment intended game design without inherently changing that design into something different, specifically something more convenient. Old console games without battery save functions were never designed to run indefinitely, designers expected you to play until the game ended or you ended the game, noting your score/password if wanted, then restarting by cycling the console power switch. Kids leaving their console powered on would eventually see their system turned off either by their own hand or some other external force (power outage, irritated parent, accidental bump, etc.) so I would disagree these games were ever intended to be left powered on indefinitely much like persisting a game's state for some indeterminate amount of time. If a game has an internal save function then I'd just use that, if it doesn't save internally then it was designed around power cycles and not indefinite play. Players using saved states to augment non-saving games are modifying intended game design and cheapen the experience of playing them as a result; If players won't abide by intended design they shouldn't feel a need to force themselves through earlier games just to be "true fans" (which in my opinion is more about social participation than enjoying video games) and while they can have whatever priorities they want in the end I will still point out other people don't mind waiting a bit longer to enter passwords, loading from the menu, or simply restarting from scratch each playthrough. Anyways "Bloom County" is not as well remembered but it does have a similar dry wit like C&H albeit a bit preachier on various contemporary socio-political issues of the 80's and can be easily read online. Check it out, or don't.

>>10622456
You make salient points. To add to this, you were also intended to use warps in some games as an alternative to save/password; while not exactly the same, it served a similar purpose of letting you get back to where you were (warp whistles in smb3 are a good example of this, also Battletoads).
I see where you're coming from, but it's also important to distinguish between occasional/situational use and savescumming.

>>10622456
You make salient points. To add to this, you were also intended to use warps in some games as an alternative to save/password; while not exactly the same, it served a similar purpose of letting you get back to where you were (warp whistles in smb3 are a good example of this, also Battletoads).
I see where you're coming from, but it's also important to distinguish between occasional/situational use and savescumming.
thanks for the rec.

>>10622456
on the flip side, what's your thoughts on arcade games?
with arcade games you can pick up after a failure immediately just by putting in money, as often as you like
the intention here is obvious, you can keep going, at a monetary cost
but then what about emulation? is there just no way to play emulated arcade games legit outside of maybe one-credit-clears (which are impractical for most people/games, as the games were literally not designed to be beaten with one credit)
i know non-arcade games aren't the same thing, though many games people played in the 5th and older gens were arcade ports, i'm just curious what your stance is regarding those

>>10622456
>>10622865
Such a nice educated discussion between you 2, sadly it's getting rarer to find healthy discussions like this one.
Glad to see people like you 2 still having honest and fair discussions.

>>10622908
Honestly i either just use infinite credits or play with the idea of a limited credit system. Let's say like in real life you have a budget of 5 euros which translates to like 5 to 10 continues. But it's really up to the player when it comes to arcade experiences.

>>10616538
But movie games aren't fun or interesting

>>10622865
I've seen the current discussion regarding SMB3 and while warping does assist players to reach the end of a game faster, the included scoring system would indicate players were expected to modulate individual play session lengths with the designed warp and scoring systems. That's ultimately what this discussion boils down to, choice within design intention. If a player wishes to merely view the end screen they can either find warp whistles themselves or use whatever available information to locate them whereas a different player wishing to learn each level in each world can use warp whistles to skip worlds that player is already familiar with and then playing every level and world while maximizing score by collecting coins and clearing out enemies. Warps are an elegantly efficient solution for player choice between beating the game casually and efficient powergaming practice. A small aside, while I consider googling warp whistle locations to be out of the spirit of playing the game I suppose it can be rationalized like a tip hotline or reading a guidebook in a library. That said, adding the extra choice of save stating on top of this elegant and efficient design seems to be overlooking that intentional design choice for sake of convenience which lowers the experience quality below someone that plays through some worlds and entirely skips others. When a game is intended to be replayed and challenged I consider replaying from the start to be like Mr. Miyagi teaching Daniel karate by having him perform mundane tasks like sweeping floors and hanging jackets, the repetition is seemingly pointless but what it actually teaches is the disciplined practice of fundamental movements. While I can understand using save states occasionally or situationally, I think it goes against intended design which devalues the experience to the point I would simply stop playing because I can start anywhere I wanted anytime while retaining nothing. In a word, sisyphean.

>>10604180
All I care about is M.E.
M.y
E.njoyment

>>10622456
>If players won't abide by intended design they shouldn't feel a need to force themselves through earlier games just to be "true fans"
bad faith

>>10624693
If you don't like something you shouldn't force yourself to like it. That's where most resentment comes from on here.

>>10622908
Interesting you ask as I happen to live near a burger joint that repairs their machines and has a special event every week, "Free Play Monday". Earlier today I put in a daily high score for Joust of about 60k to stomp on casual players whom aren't close to my best yet third place score of about 89k; I'm currently working to beat the highest score of 107k. I occasionally practice Joust using "Midway Presents Arcade's Greatest Hits" for Saturn which is a practically perfect emulation of the actual machine, I didn't consider practicing these games at home to be cheating so long as you don't act like a home game is the same as an arcade game like Billy Mitchell. Blogposting aside, I feel that emulated versions of games cannot be treated as the same as actual arcade machines simply for the factors resulting from their venues; While I could hang out at my burger joint and take advantage of their free plays until I get a high score, I don't find hogging a machine for grinding out a lucky run to be sporting and instead I'd rather practice at home in order to attempt a respectfully considerate amount later, to have skill within randomness rather than celebrating when the game AI is nice to me. Put simply, playing for public arcade high scores only counts with public arcade machines.

Yet even then, fun also counts. I'm not going to pretend my home score beats a public score, and yet I still had fun regardless of score. If you only play to have fun, it doesn't matter what you play or how well you do. Even when a game is made to be beaten and not scored, a person determines their fun on their level of investment. Leave officiance to officiants, if someone wants to simply win they're not there to compete; If someone only wants to see the end then it really is more entertaining to them to watch better players instead. Unfortunately I also don't expect players to be honest with their level of investment online until they play publicly. It's hairy.

>>10604180
D. I have nothing to prove and I play to see everything the game has to offer. However, If a game has predetermined save areas (like Castlevania or Resident Evil) I typically only use it in those rooms. In pretty much any game though I will use it before confronting a boss because I am not running all the way back from the last save point/room or replaying the entire stage.

>>10604196

I will never understand the NES Max. I had a friend who had one back in the day, and he swore it was one of the best game pads ever. But when I used it, the d-pad slider thing has no self centering and it just felt awkward.

>>10624830
that all sounds fair
there's always compromises to be made, and at the end of the day it's about enjoyment
for arcade games, there's nowhere close to me that even has any, and they of course don't have all the machines i like, and buying actual arcade machines is both impractical and kinda pointless, because it's not in a public space anyway, so it's no different to emulation still really
you can only really set your own goals, like personal high score, lowering your credit usage, etc, but you do naturally miss out on the public aspect of arcade machines, like having strangers watch, or beating a strangers score
sometimes i just want to shoot things in metal slug and don't care about the score or credits (well, i still try not to die, because it's more exciting that way)

Savescummers should be put into their own category.

>>10624968
That's true and funny you say that, just now I tried going back to that burger joint and it turns out it was suddenly closed to everyone for a staff Christmas party, I got shooed away by some Santa impersonator smoking a cigarette outside. Nobody gets to choose how their life progresses, only you get to determine your fun such as throwing ceramic shards at plate glass windows for some unrelated example. I'm kidding of course, I'm probably going to continue my other games on hold instead. Probably.

>>10625036
As a save-scummer, I agree.

But if I am put in my special-needs-category in How-Long-To-Beat, does that mean that .... that... that I may have actually beaten the game????

>noooooo, reeeeee (horrendous diahrrea splashing)
Ok, ok.... I am not actually beating any game, just let me go back to my sofa and play some RetroArch

>reeeeeeeeee (splash splash splash)