/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10077094
It depends on who you ask. Personally I prefer Banjo for its fun characters, huge and detailed environments, and excellent soundtrack, but they are both great games.

>>10077094
It's better because it doesn't throw you out of the levels each time you find a big collectable.

Some people prefer Mario 64's platforming and movement while others prefer Banjo's worlds, exploration and presentation.
It depends on what you like about 3D Platformers.

>>10077103
To be fair it also doesn't record the number of notes unless you collect them all. I still prefer it though lol

I love them both. I feel like Mario 64 was better for the time it came out, but Banjo Kazooie has aged a little better. Level rank time, from best to worst:

Click Clock Wood
Mad Monster Mansion
Treasure Trove Cove
Gobi's Valley
Freezeezy Peak
Bubblegloop Swamp
Clankers Cavern
Rusty Bucket Bay
Mumbo's Mountain

>>10077153
>Rusty bucket and clankers kino that low
Go back zoom

>>10077174
Where's your list then? Not him btw

>>10077094
the sequel feels like a modern game that could come out tomorrow. the first one feels like something that could have been at arcades with a level select instead of a hub world

>>10077174
I actually do like those levels, I just like the other ones better. I've been playing this game since 1998 and I've had a lot of time to think about them.

>>10077174
>you don’t like the levels I like, therefor you’re underage and from r*ddit!
Lol

>>10077252
You can tell when someone is underage because those are the people who go around calling people zoomer.

>>10077094
Banjo is shit.
>>10077103
Mario 64 was built around that. Removing it honestly makes the game feel soulless, which makes sense, as Banjo is a soulless ripoff that kept the bad parts of Mario 64, and then added more bad parts on top of that.

>>10077094
Obviously it's more ambitious and refined than Mario 64, and looks a lot better. But I really prefer the controls and platforming of Mario 64. Mario 64 is more simple on a surface level, yet seems to have much more multifaceted and fluid controls than Banjo. Also while I think Banjo has some very good music, it's a little one-note stylistically for me. Mario 64 manages to have more actual variety in the music despite using the same melody for a bunch of level themes. So I like Mario 64 more overall, but Banjo is still a great soulful game.

>>10077094
There needs to be a romhack where you can replay Grunty's Furnace Fun. They could've made a Mario Party knockoff. That was easily the best part of the game for me.

>>10077094
It's so bad at platforming the fans don't want you to call it a platformer. Unfortunately for them the action is all platforming and it always sucks.

Mario 64 is a platformer, Banjo-Kazooie is an action adventure game. I prefer BK because I prefer action adventure games and I find a fresh universe full of quirky animals more appealing than a dude with a moustache that even at time was not original but rather just another iteration of a neverending brand.

There's a lot to be said about the depth/simplicity of Mario 64 control mechanics no doubt, it's just not the thing that draws me into a game.

>>10077153
No

Treasure trove
[Power gap]
Mad monster
Click clock
Rusty bucket
Clankers
Freezeezy
Mumbos
Gobis
[Power gap]
Bubblegloop

>>10077581
Interesting that we have the same levels in our top three. I totally understand the disappointment with Bubblegloop Swamp, it would have been lower on my list if it wasn't for the fact that I love the gator transformation.

>Mario
Controlling Mario is complex and depthful, the worlds are built around the in-depth movement mechanics but aren't very interesting locations all on their own.

>Banjo
Controlling him is stiff and bare-bones. Platforming is very much sidelined as secondary importance after exploration/puzzle solving. The levels are designed around his bare-bones movement mechanics by making the worlds themselves charming and polished and feel like places you could actually visit

Mario 64 is also more addictive than Majora but that doesn't make it better. It just means mario himself has yet to be topped moveset wise. But Banjo is clearly the more refined product

Banjo Kapooie

>>10077094
>How does this hold up against Mario 64?
It didn't. It's a good game for what it is. It's not Mario 64. Not even close. It's more like Croc Legend of Gobos than Mario 64.

The fact that this game throws sexy Grunty in your face every single time you save and quit makes it head and shoulders above any other contemporary platformer. Legendary retrobabe.

>>10078149
> It's more like Ocarina of Time than Mario 64.
Fixed. The game is virtually nothing like Croc. At least compare it to another puzzle exploration platformer like Medievil

>>10078207
How is it nothing like Croc?

Anyone play the Xbox 360 remake of this? Is it any good?

>>10078247
Not that anon but Croc is a lot smaller than Banjo. It had tank controls, less moves, and you could just tell it was a very early 3D platformer. They're both good games but Banjo is definitely closer to Mario 64 functionally. Banjo and Mario can both fly and have bigger worlds to traverse.

>>10078247
How is it anything like Croc? Because it a cartoon animal with a backpack? How about you look at the actual game design of the game? Croc is a platformer through and through, you go through (mostly) linear obstacle courses and you try not to die until you reach the end. Banjo throws you into worlds you must explore, unlock a wide range of special skills and use them to solve tasks and puzzles.
Essentially Croc concerns itself with maneuvering skillfully to collect the Gobbos, Banjo challenges you to find and figure out how to collect the Jiggies.

>>10078296
Honestly didn't realize there was one

>>10078315
It's more of a remaster but they did add some cool things like functional Stop n Swop. Have not played it myself so I don't know all the differences

>>10078296
It's more of a port than a remake, it's the same game except if you die you don't have to collect all the notes you already collected all over again.

>>10078312
>>10078314
It's a meme lol was just kidding

>>10077114
I agree with this, Mario 64 has much more flexibility across its range of gameplay due to its movement and glitches but Banjo just makes a fantastic storybook world. I like Banjo a little more for its progression and how much joy it gives me, but they're both fantastic, it's like comparing Pet Sounds and Pepper's.

>>10077153
Freezeezy Peak and Treasure Trove Cove are peak for me

>>10077581
>>10077153
Freezeezy Peak
Treasure Trove Cove
Mad Monster Mansion
Click Clock Wood
Gobi
Rusty Bucket
Bubblegloop
Clankers
Mumbos

Mumbo's isn't really a bad level you just don't have a lot to do there. Clankers is just kind of Clunky and there are admittedly some really neat moments but overall it feels kinda same-y to me. You guys sleep on Freezeezy it has the best aesthetic of any of the levels. I find it so fucking cozy

>>10078312
You have a good point.
>>10078314
Not only have I played both. I've owned both. Probably currently so at that. They're both sub-par 3D Platformers. I will absolutely say Banjo is better than Croc, but it's closer to Croc than it is to Mario 64. In my opinion. Maybe I am being a little hard on Banjo, Croc does suck pretty bad. And Banjo has quite a few redeeming qualities.

>>10078330
Who are you replying for? Are you a me me?

>>10078149
Dumbest post I've ever read

>>10078775
Look at it. Look at it closer. It's making you angry.

More people should start including Banjo-Kazooie 1 as a contender for best-looking N64 game. The art direction, textures, animation, and scale are so fucking insanely solid. I feel like everyone takes for granted how effortlessly great the presentation is and rushes off to Rare's other games. The music and art are incredibly good.

>>10078891

>>10078891
Banjo does look good but Conker just looks better

>>10077487
>>10077531
Pottery.

>>10078891
kino

I liked it as a kid but couldn't finish it. Character controls well. Good vibe. Cool *looking* levels. But the experience of playing through the levels gets really stale, imo. I tried playing it again a year ago.

It's not as gripping as Mario 64. Mario obviously always succeeds at tempting you to nail just one more of its snappy levels across the breadth of its series. They're short and the levels are designed tightly around Mario's athletic skills. Some levels in Mario 64 are a lot better than others in that regard, of course - but the general ethic in their design keeps your fingers on the pulse.

Banjo comparatively can perform many of the same moves, but the spacious levels start to feel like a slog. They're not filled with the same kind of micro challenges Mario is. Getting to the top of Tick Tock Clock is an obstacle course. In Banjo, Gobi desert is a sprawling landscape with interest doled out too scarcely. Hopefully you find everything you need to do here - sorry running around and getting there is so boring. Hopefully that doesn't diminish your desire to complete the tasks - oh, it did? Sorry

Funny, I jumped in and made this post - scrolling up, it looks like a lot of people agree!

I think the experience just wears down after a while, which is why I never completed it. Great vibe, but - it can't cover over the poor gameplay experience for me. Mario 64 is leaps and bounds above the bear and bird.

>>10078465
I like Freezeezey peak, but too much of the level is the giant snowman. The little village near Mumbos hut is super comfy though.

>>10079347
Both Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie are a mix of pure platforming challenges and exploration, but Mario 64 leans in more on the platforming challenge and Banjo Kazooie on the exploration. I like both of them, but I prefer a larger focus on exploration. Mario 64 is a more difficult game compared to BK, and i really like the extra challenge, by biggest complaint about BK is that it can be too easy sometimes.

The controls in general for Mario 64 have aged worse though. My favorite levels in Mario 64 are the ones that lean in more on the exploration with some platforming, such as Shifting Sand Land and Big Boos Haunt. More pure platforming levels like Tick Tock Clock arent that great, since they put a magnifying glass on just how rough Maro 64s controls can be when it comes to precision platforming. I would choose Gobis Valley over Tick Tick Clock any day. However, I would prefer Shifting Sand Land over Gobis Valley since it gets the platforming/exploration mix better.

>>10078891
Yes, the game looks and sounds amazing. Something else I haven't mentioned yet is how cool Gruntildas Lair is. It's massive and maze like, with an awesome cave/castle look to it. Easily my favorite hub world in this type of game by far.

>>10077487
>>10079306
Is Link's Awakening a platformer because you have to maneuver by jumping sometimes?

>>10079530
is banjo kazooie not a platformer because you have to platform all the time?

>>10079532
you don't platform all the time. besides few instances like climbing the click clock tree the challenge doesn't lie on whether you can jump successfully

I only rented and never beat Banjo as a kid but I loved the world of it but it was tougher for me than Mario 64 that I got with my n64. I liked Conker better as well probably because as a little kid the humor and swearing was funny but it was also a well designed game. I never really beat that either but used cheats to see all the levels I wanted to. Pretty sure it’s still at my parents house but I have no idea what’s been thrown out or stolen, pretty sure my 2 GCN controllers were stolen by my little brothers friends years ago so who knows. All I played when I last visited 3 years ago was Parasite Eve on ps3 and RE2 on n64 so that’s all I cared to look for. Hope this was informative

For me it's reactions of japanese people to Banjo kazooie on smash

https://youtu.be/ygr67F5lSwY

>>10077153
>rusty bucket bay that low
ngmi

>>10077153
>>10077581
>>10078465
For me it's:
1. Click Clock Wood
[power gap]
2. Mad Monster Mansion
3. Rusty Bucket Bay
4. Treasure Trove Cove
[power gap]
5. Gobi's Valley
6. Freezeezy Peak
[power gap]
7. Bubblegloop Swamp
8. Clanker's Cavern
[power gap]
9. Mumbo's Mountain

>>10077153
>Cuck Cock Wood
>anywhere but shit tier
that level fucking sucks and i don't care who says otherwise. also if mumbo, freezezy and treasure trove arent in your top 5 you are a faggot. i refuse to believe anybody actually likes clanker's or rusty bucket, no idea why you'd put mumbo kino below that trash.

>>10077581
Switch mumbo with Gobi and it's perfect

Playing this game for the first time now. Not zoomer, just never owned it. Played through Treasure Trove Cove as a kid at friend's houses but no further. I am haveing fun, so far Freezeezy is my favorite world.

I feel like smaller kids largely enjoy Bubblegloop Swamp but adults don't view it quite as enjoyable or as a well-designed level. Can anyone come up with ways they could have made it better? Or at least articulate why you don't like it? Cuz I really WANT to love BgS but I can't place why it leaves a sour taste in my mouth either. I can think of

>the level is largely quite flat. makes it feel more boring
>it's built like a spoke wheel where you can choose from any of 5 paths once you reach the center. which has a few problems. the gold crocodiles being one because they guide you down a linear path and ruin the level structure.
>they stray from the "big landmark in the middle" design philosophy that works so well in other levels. the yellow flibbit fight area is a terrible and unhelpful center landmark, and it's awkward how they initiate the fight when you're in the middle of doing something else
>the "maze" is super dumb, it's just a linear path. I understand the challenge here is meant to be the timer on the boots, but that's a lame challenge anyway. It should be a real maze.
>the maze does not open up a short cut, you have to spend over a full minute slowly treading it each time you fail the terrible Jiggy switch or want to see Mumbo
>the wading boots being a thing means none of the piranha water is deep enough to actually swim in, which could have added some level depth (badum tssh)
>why random giant egg for no reason

In general I also just don't think they DID enough with the swamp theme. It's a unique setting I don't feel was explored sufficiently. Things kinda feel random in here

>>10080596
So far everyone has put CCW somewhere I'm the top three. It's a huge level that's really interesting to explore, and climbing the tree is one of the best platforming experiences in the game.

>>10081391
Bubblegloop should have doubled down on the tree house theme to add more vertically. Maybe make the central landmark be a large tree house village complete with bridges and interior parts. Also they should have scrapped the piranhas and made more interesting water based challenges. Also the giant gator building and turtle just look weird and aren't necessary.

>>10081504
> and turtle

Take that back

https://youtu.be/mWhoXKbuxns

>>10081504
> they should have scrapped the piranhas and made more interesting water based challenges

I feel like if they tried to do interesting water based challenges that the level would wind up with precisely zero interesting water based challenges

>>10081391
I don't really feel like it's worse than any of the others. If I had to guess, I would say that 70% of the map is hazard, and this annoys some people.

>>10081391
>see giant egg, wonder what sort of charming NPC is inside
>hit once, oh must be a smaller bird or reptile
>hit several more times
>oh, it's a jiggy, awesome -____-
>inb4 Rare swerved on me just as they planned

What was the one jiggy that you never, ever figured out how to get yourself?

>>10081780
none, got them all pre-internet

>>10081780
The 3 that I got last were Clanker's teeth because I apparently missed that dialogue, the Freezeezy snowman buttons which I maintain to this day do NOT sufficiently look like targets, and the RBB dolphin one cuz I was super scared of being too close to the shark to figure it out

>>10081780
I've still never been able to get the Banjo Tooie one in Grunty Industries where you have to shoot all the poops covering the air vents.

>>10082297
They fucking hide one up near the ceiling. It really just the mazelike design of the place though, a series of random rooms connected randomly

>>10082317
Even if I know where they are I run out of time and the poop gas floods the rooms and Banjo and Kazooie die in the shitiest way possible.

>>10082319
Making you get EVERY LAST ONE without giving you any leeway for missing one or two is what I consider a game design flaw, and it crops up surprisingly often in Banjo games. Even just with music notes in the first game. Having 105 Notes in the level (but the extra 5 are a buffer that doesn't add to the score) would have made the process of finding all the notes SO much smoother. Too many challenges force you to find every last mcguffin with no lenience

All I know is that they are both far better than Sunshine and Tooie

>>10077531
Agreed. Banjo was meant to be a classic fantasy hack and slash adventure game anyways and was pivoted to a platformer later on. Early Banjo concept art has a huge sword strapped to his back. It definitely has a more adventurous sense to it, and most of the abilities you unlock are combat oriented as you spend way more time destroying bad guys than pulling off tricky platforming skill moves like Mario 64.

I think Rare were absolute masters of visuals. Amazing textures, vertex colors, texture blending, super expressive characters, vertex and bone animations, amazing sound design, and a super whimsical world all make banjo special.

Today, when nearly all of western cartoonism and animation has shifted to copying Japanese anime styles, the design charm of Banjo Kazooie stands even higher.

To me Banjo Kazooie still looks better than any modern cartoon styled games, it's unmatched.

>>10077094
>All of Mumbo
>All of Humba
>Enemy named chinker
>Enemy named jippo
BK has a lot of problematic content that has aged poorly. It's easier to hand people Mario 64 and not make them feel uncomfortable from seeing such content.

>>10083436
Yeah, fuckin no it doesn't. I keep hearing people say this. You're literally just wrong. There ARE a couple things but it's a very scarce handful and most of them aren't that bad. Probably one of the most prevalent things tho is the fatphobia, which unfortunately is something British culture is rife with

>All of Mumbo
He's fine, you're just an idiot looking to be offended by things which are not offensive.
>All of Humba
This is fair.
>Enemy named chinker
It's named after the glass-like sound ice makes when you tap it. *chink chink*. Like a tink, or a ding. People often assume Rare was doing something inappropriate when they weren't. There's literally zero fucking reason to suspect this name comes from a slur, it would be extremely random if it was.
>Enemy named jippo
This is fair

>>10083436
>>10083475
Bait aside the worst thing is the snake charmer in gobis valley that "talks" in a stereotypical indian accent.

I have a question for all you Mario 64 nuts in here.

Okay so calling Banjo a 3D platformer game is sort of a misnomer, because the platforming is definitely of secondary importance in his game and the bear is clunky and slow and not acrobatic at all. So in a way, complaining that Banjo is shitty at platforming is sort of missing the point, cuz his game isn't TRYING to emphasize the same things Mario emphasizes. They have different goals. It is ALSO however, 100% true that the teddy is really fucking stiff and doesn't do a whole lot, and his game would absolutely be way better with more in-depth movement mechanics, even if again it sorta misses the point. It would totally make navigating the game 1000x more fun if his moveset wasn't so bare-bones.

The question: what in Mario's toolkit would Banjo most benefit from? I know Mario's mechanics are hugely praised, but not why. I understand the long jump and the slide/dive moves are really important, for some reason. Basically I'm asking, if they ever remake Banjo-Kazooie, what mechanics can be taken from the Mario games that would make the bear game drastically more fun and mechanically depthful?

>>10077118
yeah, that was ass.

>>10083884
The game is a platformer, just not a very good one.

>>10083886
It's an exploration-puzzle solving collectathon game, which has bitesized platforming in it as an afterthought to get around the map, but is rarely any real focus.

You can tell this by looking at the RBB engine room. Mario could easily overcome it, but Banjo struggles hard in this room because his game is not designed around complicated or precision platforming, just the bare minimum to get by with.

>>10083898
Minigames aren't puzzles
exploration isn't a factor for progress and isn't done in any interesting way to be considered a central focus - it's not a metroid game.
Platforming is the majority of the gameplay and it's never good or interesting.

>>10077094
mario 64 has more fun movement and you don't need to continously unlock moves
banjo is more consistent with the level design

>>10083907
>Platforming is the majority of the gameplay
delusion

>>10083907
You fundamentally misunderstand game or perhaps you think literally any jumping at all is considered platforming

>>10084028
>>10083993
>the platforming....IS NOT PLATFORMING!
Wow.

>>10084607
>world of warcraft is a platformer
>duke nukem is a platformer
>virtua fighter is a platformer

>>10084891
The Duke Nukem games before Duke Nukem 3D were platformers. How is this even for debate?

>>10084891
Not that anon. All of those are a far cry from Banjo. You'd be better off comparing it to Prince of Persia or Assassin's Creed. Even then Banjo is more of a platformer than those games... Literally Mario 64 with bears in it

>>10084915
I meant duke nukem 3D. after all you can jump so that makes it a platformer amirite

>>10084918
lol. mind boggling how hard people can misjudge a game

>>10077153
Clanker's Butthole is probably the 2nd worst level across both games only beaten by Grunty Industries. I just finished a replay and I only had 30 minutes completing it so it doesn't take long but all the swimming shit is really just un-fun. Would have been a lot better if the faster swimming ability from BT was in BK. I actually quite like Rusty Bucket Bay. People overblow the oily water gimmick and you are only required to swim in it maybe twice. The level design also works pretty well to find everything. You basically just do a loop around the out perimeter then get into the boat and do the same. The engine room kinda sucks but overall the hate for that level is really overblown.

>>10085312
>Grunty Industries

You mean the best-designed level in any Banjo game by far

>>10078296
It's a pretty straight port at a higher resolution/60FPS, Stop N' Swop has some functionality as well. I believe if you have a BT or Nuts and Bolts save it will allow you to get the items in BK. The BK carts in BT were removed and the ice key/eggs were replaced with needing to bring them over from BK.

The only other major change is that notes are now saved as soon as collected which is a plus. There is probably some extreme autistic purist out there who would cry about it being babied down and easier but unless your like that it's just an improvement. Outside of the Stop N' Swop and note changes and technical improvements it's identical. If you ever play it just minor thing if for whatever reason you want to do the bottle picture game early there is a bug that causes notes Banjo collects in there to stay collected and not be obtainable. I believe this was patched but it's good to know going into it.

Overall though it is objectively the best version other than the fact it's stuck on Xbox and MS still hasn't released the damn thing on PC or Rare Replay for that matter.

>>10084925
>>10084891
>this mentally unhinged argument...AGAIN
Grant was right about Banjo fans.

>>10083884
Wall jumping, though that would just butt fuck the level design? I was gonna say the side somersault, but you can easily quickly pull off a flap flip.
>exploration isn't a factor for progress
Considering you only find the collectables by exploring, your opinion is terrible.

>>10085745
shit, fogot the 2nd quote for >>10083907

>>10077094
While banjo is directly inspired by mario they are pretty different experiences.
Banjo is much slower paced and puzzle focused, while SM64 is fast paced and leans much harder on the platforming above everything else.
Banjo worlds also feel more immersive, while SM64 worlds are more like thematic obstacle courses.

people saying banjo is an action adventure game are spot on. it's like metroid, sure it has platforming elements and jumping is a somewhat significant mechanic in the game but at the end of the day it's still fundamentally an action adventure game, to classify it as a platformer would be doing it a disservice and not an accurate description of what the game is about

>>10085382
Nah. I'll agree with the modern eceleb parroting about bactracking and worlds being too large on that one. Just even getting anywhere in the level requires backtracking to get in with the train, though I will admit it is a kinda cool and unique thing not shared by any other level. The whole level is just a huge mess to traverse.

Hmm what in the heck that can't be right

>>10086009
No one said it wSnt a platformer dipshits, we said Banjo platforming is of secondary importance and literally not remotely as prominent as in mario

>>10086009
retard

>>10086017
super metroid is an exploration platformer

>>10086027
Hmm what in the heck that can't be right

>>10086009
>>10086017
>Using Google for research
lol

>muhrio
Banjo has more in common with Zelda than Mario. If he had a sword (which he once did), there would be less confusion but if you pay attention and STOP comparing everything to Mario 64 everything becomes clear. The very first thing you see in Grunty's lair is a big painting, but nothing happens if you try to jump into it. Unfortunately, many missed the meaning of this.

Think moves as items in Zelda and the various obstacles requiring them as the puzzle elements of that series. The minigames as the essential component of the "adventure" in "action-adventure" that makes the game feel diverse and unpredictable. Instead of diverting attention from the basic platforming mechanics, they fortify the game as a whole by making the whole experience richer.

Once you realize that the whole concept of genre is a marketing spook, even the strangest gimmicks like the quiz board game and the goddamned FPS segments in Tooie start to make sense: in these games anything can happen. Banjo is probably the closest to the old concept of Zelda 64 (ganon's castle as hub) that we'll get. I once disliked Banjo because I kept comparing it unfavorably to Mario 64 but it's possible to stop being stuck in this mode of thinking.

Metroid has better controls than Super Mario Brothers

>>10086058
I appreciate this post

>>10086017
Incredible the 9th result

>>10086032
That's nice, wikipedia is western therefore is wrong about genre

>>10086058
Mario 64 has items too, therefore it's also not a platformer.

some of you are painfully stupid ngl

maybe mario64 is more influential, better designed or whatever but at the end of the day banjo kazooie is more fun

>>10077094
SMB64 is the most overhyped game of all time. It's a slopped together series of hit or miss obstacle courses with one of the first iterations of successful 3d platforming, but they act like it was the coming of jc.
BK is full of polish, charm, and quality design. It's not really something to overhype. It is very good though. I think BT is an even better game.

>>10077153
>Rusty Bucket Bay
>Click Clock Wood
>Mad Monster Mansion
>Clanker's Cavern
>Freezeezy Peak
>Treasure Trove Cove (fun music but really basic, knock off the nostalgia goggles)
>Gobi's Valley
>Mumbo's Mountain
>Bubblegloop Swamp

>>10077094
It's a great game overall, but it has more "that part" moments than Super Mario 64.

>>10081391
Bubblegloop has NOTHING but a croc transformation redeeming it. It feels like a leftover junk level. The spoke wheel design starts the problem and then the jiggies and jingos feel just randomly crammed into the level after the fact finishes the level for good.
Compared to Freezeezy Peaks it's like it's not even from the same game.

>>10086680
>I think BT is an even better game.
your post was going so well until this part

>>10086680
>Treasure Trove Cove (fun music but really basic, knock off the nostalgia goggles)
what is wrong with you moron? if one has nostalgia for treasure trove they are gonna have nostalgia for the rest of the levels. should have stopped reading when you said BT is the better game.

>>10086728
>flight unlock a jump away from spring jump unlock
>jiggy 2 absolute dogshit jiggy of bad camera
>60% of the jiggies are trivial flying tasks
>all that's left are
>nipper, sandcaslte, 5x jingo phone in and...
>trivial swim to the bottom of this puddle jiggy

it's a music level ngl the music is great but the level deserves its middle-of-the-pack location.

>>10086680
>I think BT is an even better game.
LOL

>>10086728
this level has by far the best architecture in the game

>>10086756
BIGGER LOL

>>10086761
Name one thing BT doesn't do better than BK. It's a perfect improvement on a first. An expansion pack, if you will. The second game and superior sequel. Where we don't have to waste time with tiresome introductions and get right to the good stuff, building upon the still-fresh ingenuity of a first with the power of iterative improvement available only to the second. Like Empire Strikes Back, or Temple of Doom, the best things always come with a 2.

>>10086774
not him and I don't have the energy to go into detail as I'm about to go to bed but tooie is extremely bloated and tedious. levels too big are a chore to navigate, (multiple)teleporters inside a stage are the hallmark of bad level design. the abilities go from a versatile generalist skillset to overly specific gimmicks that only have a couple of very situational uses, kazooie's minigames relied on your skillset, tooie minigames are completely detached from the core mechanics and nobody asked for godawful fps sections. not being able to finish levels in one go feels awful, you never know if you're overlooking something or simply don't have the skills required to get anything else currently, imagine if you had to return to zelda dungeons to clear them. music notes feel like a forced pointless afterthought when they used to be perfect breadcrumbs that feel good to get. humor goes from lighthearted with a few cheeky moments to them trying to be raunchy in a kids game at every opportunity.

I could elaborate further and go on and on but why bother.

The fact that you think Empire Strikes Back is better than Star Wars(fuck the revisionist titles) and Temple of Cringe is better than Raiders confirms you're just beyond clueless with no insight whatsoever and I'm wasting my time.

Have a good night.

>>10086696
>>10081391
What problems are caused by the spokewheel design? I'm curious cuz I really can't think of any

>>10086848
you nailed it, I'd add the extraordinary disappointment that is playing as mumbo. Literally all it is take him to stand on a pad and return. It's some Donkey Kong 64-tier pointless padding.

>>10086850
The spokewheel led to the problems of Bubblegloop. With no verticality, no climb, loops, etc. there was no level design anymore, it's just a basic parking lot that led to them plopping cheap musement park attraction jiggy holders in.
>Stomp on turtles feet
>timed tightrope race that's only hard because of camera, uh, twice!
>bonk some enemies or something and uh
>break the eggshell, uh, multiple times!
The entire time you're staring at dead-ends of some of the poorest textures and most unimaginative locations in the entire game.

Compare it to the often (and unfairly) ridiculed Clanker's Cavern. After you first arrive, you have to journey through a harrowing underwater tunnel to meet the biomechanical monstrosity face to face. Plunging to the depths to loosen his chain so he can reach the surface, riding a bolt stuck in a blowhole, or dodging the bolt and entering Clanker from the blowhole, jumping off his fins to platform over pipes, or charging through whirling blades in his innards.

>>10086761
>>10086756
>>10086728
I think you're being overly harsh on TTC but you are very right that it is super fucking basic and many Jiggies are boring and suck. Understand it's only the 2nd fucking world so they weren't gonna be too brave with it. But yeah, the architecture is fucking fantastic and TTC is phenomenal in many ways, but a lot of the specific shit you do there leaves something to be desired. It could have been more.

Will you fuckers stop complaining about the fixed camera during the Blubber's gold part, it's literally there to help you, it would be way worse without it imo. Fuck you it's a good camera angle, I think the unique perspective works

>>10086774
>Name one thing BT doesn't do better than BK.

So I actually totally love Tooie and think it surpasses BK in several ways, and many thing folks complain about don't bother me. I do however think it's riddled with flaws in ways its predecessor wasn't, and I even started writing a list of shit that Tooie fucked up on. I can paste it, it's short but I'm gonna finish it later and I'm sure it will be 15x as long.

>It is UNACCEPTABLE that the goldfish fast swim upgrade is even possible to not get before Atlantis, let alone incredibly likely to be missed on a blind playthrough. I cannot stress enough how torturous Atlantis is without it. (I say this despite it being my favorite level.)

>I understand Banjo should be slow---he is needed for reliable and safe platforming---but making the levels massive and then NOT increasing Talon Trot's speed was a grave mistake.

>Why does attempting to leave the world as a Humba transformation not automatically turn you back, like it did in Kazooie?

>Why did you put Ice Eggs in your game if you had no intention of using them? Do you have ANY idea how many awesome water-based puzzles you could have designed with these?? What clever icy physics applications these could have had? They don't even freeze water!

>Why do the Springy Step shoes not prevent fall damage?

Going to sleep just wanna say Humba Wumba can catch my Jumba Cumba

for me, it's GRUNT-y :wink: :wink:

>>10086898
speaking of wumba whats even the point of having to collect glowbos if they are always right outside the tent? tooie is full of terrible design decisisons

>>10086858
>>10086774
>every single person universally while playing as mumbo for the first time
Holy fucking shit wow, what?! I get to be Mumbo this is SO FUCKING COOL

>3rd time playing as Mumbo
Yeah yeah, c'mon, get his asshole to his stupid pad so I can get this over with

This was NOT inevitable. Mumbo is fucking magic and awesome and they didn't NEED to make playing as him the most excruciating thing possible. They fucked up so bad that universal praise became universal groaning very quickly. They FUCKED IT UP

I didn't play much of either, but I think banjo is more creative and kind of just seemed like a better re-do of what DK64 was going for.

I liked mario, but after I watched a few levels, it all kind of felt similar.

>>10086930
Remember this lesson in life children, it will guide you well: The only thing worse than a bad idea is giving people hope by having a good idea and then fucking it up.

>>10086930
Bitch, not you
>>10086921

Joining the others in going to bed and when I wake up I expect a 5 page essay why the design of this place is so....*gestures vaguely*...y'know. Y'know what I mean right? Look at Jinxy even he's bored of the place.

>>10077102
The soundtrack is shit by vg ost standards.

>>10087090
>The soundtrack is shit by vg ost standards.

>>10086058
All I got out of this was
>YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HATE BANJO YOU HAVE TO LIKE BANJO
>>10086680
Mario 64 was unironically better. Banjo felt like Rare took everything bad from Mario 64, ruined the good things so their slop would seem more original, and called it a day. Banjo was never good.
>>10087175
It is. Imagine calling digitized fart music good.

>>10086848
>>10086858
>>10086886
>>10086908
>>10086921
gotta love this >>10086774 idiot getting btfo this hard

>>10086951
it doesn't need 5 pages, it comes down to the fact that everything is the same shade of monochromatic eyesore yellow. yellow flat ground, yellow sand dunes, yellow quick sand, yellow stone structures, yellow sky, yellow interiors...

>>10086058
Anyway, now that we've discarded genres Banjo is a game where 80% of is spent platforming and the platforming is bad. But it's just a game and not any specific type of one.

>>10077094
They are not the same game or even the same genre. But it is easy to see where people would mistakenly draw parallels and compare them. Mario collects stars and coins, Banjo collects jiggys and notes. Banjo also collects eggs, feathers, honey combs, jinjos and mumbo tokens. Banjo can jump to onto platforms, but most of the game is spent running around collecting things on the ground. Mario 64 plays like a 3d adaptation of the 2d games, i.e. you navigate obstacles typically with a lot of jumps and verticality until you reach the end of the course. This used to be a flag post or some other course marker, now it is a star. Coin collection is optional and not required to progress. In Banjo, notes are mandatory to progress and must be collected, this is also true of nearly everything else too, apart from empty honey combs. Mario 64 is a course based platformer, Banjo is an exploration based collectathon. Both are great, neither should be compared to the other unless you are fucking retarded.

>>10077153
>Rusty Bucket Bay isn't number one
Refrain from posting immediately

>>10087646
Why are RBB fans such insufferable tards? We get it, you think liking a hard level makes you look cool, and you can't tell the difference between a level that is good and one that is hard.

>>10077094
Mario controls a lot faster

>>10077094
I love it, one of my favorite games, but I have to refrain myself from replaying it to not remind me of how much the end game sucks. CCW is the worst level because climbing the same giant tree 3 times is boring, grunty's furnace is funny the first time but way too long and boring on repeats and the final boss should be cool but none of your moves are really built for combat so it's more frustrating then challenging

>>10077397
Literally the worst take of all time, you complete spastic.

I prefer BK but take no issue with people who like Mario 64 more, it's people who think Banjo Tooie is better that get my eyes rolling

*ruins your game*

>>10087559
I haven't actually played BT I was just baiting to get some reviews before investing the time =^D

>>10077094
It's got two massive things that put it way above SM64. You don't have to leave the level every time you beat an objective, and the world's are significantly larger and more interesting to explore.

>>10088507
sexo with brentilda

>>10088516
>I was only pretending to be retarded!

>>10088507
Lol how so? She's a pretty inconsequential character and the Grunty facts are funny

>>10088809
because it breaks the flow of the game having to waste time talking to her and take notes on paper so you don't fuck up the board game section. it's fine for a first time playthrough, the issue was making it random each time so experienced players can't even memorize it

>treasure trove cove isn't one of his favorite levels
why are you like this?

>>10088992
it's not a clever level it's just fun music. RBB has both

>>10087590
bubblegloop also suffer from a having a samey boring color scheme

>>10077094
This is the best 3d platformer

>>10087721
It couldn't possibly be the theme and creative level design that makes it so endearing. There's no way people enjoy the music. It HAS to be the subjective experience that your retarded ass found it difficult, so everyone else must like it out of pure contrarianism. Fuck off, autist. If you found RBB difficult, you would have struggled in CCW or Clankers Cavern which feature the same type of puzzles and obstacles.

>>10088507
I like her theme music

https://youtu.be/mQKSB-fTi4k

>>10089420
Reminds me of all the good times with the wife

>>10089395
RBB is just a less interesting Clanker's Cavern. They already did a dingy industrial looking level, they should have found some way to combine them.

>>10089586
rusty bucket should have been combined with treasure trove(both nautical)

clankers should have been combined with bubblegloop(sewers and swamps are both smelly sludgy gross places)

>>10089598
The industrial aesthetic of RBB and CC would have ruined the more natural look of TTC and BGS. Clankers and Bubblegloop might work, but Treasure Trove needs to keep its old school pirate look.

>>10089598
Blubbleshit could just be cut from the game.
Double CCW in size and make any of the other levels to the unmatched quality of RBB and BK would have been GOAT.

You know, I think I just described BT.

>>10089616
>unmatched quality of RBB

Take the Conkerpill.
>no collecting 800 random pieces of shit
>has variety
>has difficulty
>gameplay is skill-based

>>10089646
>poop song makes a good game
I wish you got hit by a bus and died with the end of the 90s

>>10089608
treasure trove cove was never entirely old school, it has a modern lighthouse, sea mines, a sandcastle/kids bucket

>>10079394
>I like both of them, but I prefer a larger focus on exploration. Mario 64 is a more difficult game compared to BK, and i really like the extra challenge, by biggest complaint about BK is that it can be too easy sometimes.

I genuinely don't get this meme. Mario 64 is only harder to get all stars in vs getting all jiggies in BK, other than that BK is by far the more demanding game, requiring you to get a much higher percentage of its individual collectables to even finish it, and its final boss is far harder than any individual challenge in Mario 64, while Mario barely requires that you use most of his abilities and its finals levels aren't that challenging.

>>10089683
Not all nautical related things go together though. TTC has an idealized natural beach look to it, while RBB is an intentionaly ugly industrial mess. It has much more in common with Grunty Industries than it does with TTC.

>>10089712
It's a not a meme, I've been playing both of these games for 25 years and I think Mario 64 is the harder one, and it isn't even close. The platforming in BK is never really that difficult, the engine room in Rusty Bucket is the only thing that really compares to most of harder parts of Mario 64. M64 has worse controls
, and it requires a much higher degree of platforming mastery than BK or even BT.

>>10089724
You've not addressed my points though. Grunty is much harder than any actual challenge M64 presents, and it's much more difficult to get the number of required jigsaw and notes pieces to complete compared to how simple and lax this is in Mario, especially since coin counts don't matter.

>>10089729
I don't think Grunty is that hard though, in fact I have a much harder time getting Bowser to hit the bombs than I do fighting Grunty. Finding more jiggies isn't harder because the jiggies and notes are just easier to get than the stars.

>>10089729
>>10089773
I would hard her Grunty if you know what a I mean :wink: :wink:

Real niggas collected the ice key even before Sub and Ice found the sandcastle codes.

>>10088930
thank god for save states so you can bruteforce the questions

>>10089783
cant believe the items were actually in the game. back in the days all we had were the second true ending and some bunch of myth about stop n swoop or whatever. would have killed for the codes back in the day.

>>10089646
Don't forget
>best multiplayer on the console

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ_MDsEnub0

>>10077153
Mumbos Mountain is my fav level. Yeah, its piss easy but it is also comfy and chill as fuck.

>>10091527
it blows my mind that a significant number of people put this on the bottom of their lists. this is like hating bobomb battlefield or something. you have to love it for the simple fun and aesthetics alone. anybody who hates on this level and then blows shit like gobi's valley or clanker's cavern should be fucking shot

>>10091532
Mumbos Mountain is practically a tutorial. I don't hate it but every other level has a lot more to offer.

>>10086848
>and nobody asked for godawful fps sections
Shut your mouth. Playing the goldeneye clone multiplayer with 4 people was fun as fuck

>>10091527
the ant transformation is the best one

>>10090619
I saw it all happen in real time, and yeah, shit was wild. Someone figured out that you can use the GameShark "moonjump" cheat to levitate over the back wall in Wozza's cave, which then led to the discovery of the SNS page in the pause screen. Theories abounded about where other items might be, the X barrel in Grunty's cellar was a likely culprit but others disagreed because there was nothing loaded there normally. Rare was very hush-hush about the whole thing, on their website was a page where people could write in (and usually get a funny/snarky response) and no doubt they were bombarded with questions about SNS, but of course they wouldn't give a straight answer. Good times when you're a kid who absolutely loved the franchise.

>>10091961
He doesn't even do anything but he is cute and the way you use him is interesting

Small game design flaw in a 9.5/10 game: They really should have added dialogue for inside the termite tower telling you that Talon Trot will not work for all steep slopes. I and I know a lot of other people kept trying to go up, thinking there was some trick to Talon Trot we didn't understand

>>10091976
>>10089783
Question. Where WOULD you have wanted a Stop N Swop mystery egg to be hidden? What would have been a good hiding place?

>>10092047
The best hiding spots would be inside some normally unopenable container, or behind an unopenable door, rather than just out in the open like a lot of the eggs are. In MMM there's a big trunk in the corner of one of the rooms, that would have been a really good one. I recall there being some rumors about there being an egg in there also, but it turned out to be not so. Basically anything that transforms a seemingly decorative object into a container for a secret item would be kickass.

>>10089598
RBB and TTC combined sounds like something they would have done in Tooie kek

Banjo and MK64 are in the same genre but crafted completely different. Anyone with an IQ above toaster should be able to see even the nuanced differences in their design philosophies. Banjo levels are designed to be coherent setpieces with charming characters to interact with, with an emphasis on exploring in mind. MK64 levels are designed with acrobatics in mind, and are set up almost like a playground so that you can tackle challenges in many different ways.

Thing is, that while Mario and Banjo are two completely different games, they're both so good at what they do that it becomes entirely down to personal preference. 10/10 games easily.

>>10092353
Fuck me, I meant SM64

>>10089783
Yeah I'm a moonjump CHAD

>>10092353
This is probably the best quick explanation of the differences between the two. Not sure if the feet are necessary though.

someone should make a hack of banjo tooie that's actually good, it's a shame the gameplay sucks because there's a lot of potential there

>>10092536
Just wait for the remake

>>10092540
>remake
barf

>>10092563
WTF is going through you mind where you would not want a remake that has the opportunity to fix most of Tooie's flaws

>>10092592
I have yet to see a remake that doesn't eviscerate the spirit of the original game. no exceptions

whatever they fix will not make up for what's gonna be lost in the process.

>>10092657
No that's gay, doomerism is gay. Don't be so fucking negative, it's perfectly likely they will create a remake that surpasses the original

>>10093409
>Don't be so fucking negative, it's perfectly likely they will create a remake that surpasses the original
Oh, you poor innocent retard. You don't realize that the people making games today aren't normal guys in the 90s with hope and optimism. The people making games today are bisexual women and mutts with green hair who grew up on GMOs, microplastics and social media. The quality of human souls has been deteriorated by demonic influence. Things will only get worse from here. Best prepare yourself for the end of days, and give up those childish notions of a better future.

>>10093409
>it's perfectly likely they will create a remake that surpasses the original
no it's not

>>10093429
No, the anon is right, doomerism is peak mental illness. The fact you think the internet reflects real life in any way whatsoever is proof you need to go outside and touch grass

>>10093575
Cringe mentality and also just objectively wrong

>>10093602
>objectively wrong
prove it

>>10093615
NTA, but it's already happened. Resident Evil Remake

>>10093589
You live in a fantasy world. Go look at the website for any game dev company and revel in the beauty of diversity.
>touch grass
Oh, you're just one of the pink hairs I was talking about. Back to redd*t now, good xir.

>>10093641
>You live in a fantasy world
No, you do, you're the same monster as they are.You both Intentionally plunge yourselves into hell because you get off on being miserable
>Go look at the website for any game dev company
That's still the internet, dude, go outside, realize that normal people still exist and chill the fuck out

>>10093660
>Go outside!!!!!!!
Kiddo, I have 3 sons and I own my own business. I've been on this rock long enough to realize things have taken a major turn for the worse over the last 20 years. You can keep playing pretend, I'll accept reality. Good luck you guillible retard.

>>10093670
>Kiddo, I have 3 sons and I own my own business
Then go spend time with them instead of acting like a child on the internet.

>>10077094
It's a fun enough game, full of life and great music, but I think Mario takes it by the freedom of movement it allows. Gameplay in Mario 64 feels less "planned" if that makes sense. In games like Banjo it feels like there's only one solution to a problem.

>>10093628
What a fucking joke. The remake completely destroys the tone of the original game

It perfectly illustrates what I mean, whatever obvious quality of life improvements remakes might have they do not makeup for everything that gets lost

>>10093724
>In games like Banjo it feels like there's only one solution to a problem.


Yeah that's one thing I wish Banjo did better. Most of his Jiggies only have one correct solution to the problem. There should be at least 2 ways of getting most Jiggies. Napper from Mad Monster Mansion always stood out to me as a Jiggy that definitely could have had multiple solutions

>sneak in through the chimney
>tiptoe to avoid the floor creaking
>use the pumpkin, which is lighter, so the floor doesn't creak
>unscrew the chandelier from a floor above and drop it on him

Players should be rewarded for being clever or otherwise not forced down one linear path. Let there be multiple right solutions!!!

>>10093861
So you will admit the original wasn't supposed to look spooky? That it was in fact an action game?

>>10093906
That's how I feel about a lot of 3D platformers. For how much SM64 gets put on a pedestal not a lot of games ever took its lessons to heart, instead there's only one way to play the game and that's about it. I first played SM64 maybe 4 years ago and I've already replayed it three times. Each time the game feels fresh because of of the movement. Other platformers often feel more boring on replay because it's just the exact same experience.

>>10093930
Is The Shinning not scary because the hotel isn't decrepit and decorated like Dracula's lair? No because the contemporary aesthetic only enhance the uncanny feeling. There's more to horror than halloween gothic cliches

>>10093906
I don't mind having THE solution because you have enough freedom to explore the world and search for the jiggies however way you feel like. If getting each jiggy was linear with a set order it would be a different story

Okay, 5 page essay on why this is a bad world despite looking fun on paper GO

>>10094447
I absolutely hate this piece of shit. The theme is dumb, the puzzles are shit, the layout is confusing, and the transformation was already done in BK. I usually skip this level completely when I replay BT.

>>10094447
Because I always finish winter with 97 notes, and I can't fucking leave until I find the last 3!

>>10094770
That's cloud cuckooland you moron

>>10094923
pls no mean

>>10093861
remakes shouldn't be compared, it's 2 different games

>>10092047
the chest in MMM
the doors in the last room

>>10094447
Can't fight Mingy Jongo with Mumbo. He doesn't even react and just does damage to you if you touch him.

>>10077102
>but they are both great games
I bought both on launch and once beaten never played again. Neither are good platformers compared to Mario 3 or Sonic 2 or Battletoads. If you want a fun 3d platformer check out Sonic Adventure.

>>10094447
The Central Cavern is built to be a hub connecting the split paths and tunnels around the level, but it doesn't really function as one. Knowing which pathway goes where is somewhat jarring if you forget the color around the rocks near it, and there aren't a lot of helpful hints or indicators for navigating familiar territory, everything about the level is vaguely familiar at best. Perhaps that was intentional to fit with the fever dream aesthetic of the level.

Obtaining a few of the jiggies doesn't really fit with some of elements of the level. The Jelly Castle bouncing around as you walk on top of it would have you assume you need to create a hole or jiggle through it. The hole on the side looks small enough for the bee transformation, but he doesn't fit. Too many jiggies require "multiple steps" in order to get. Get 4 codes, kill 4 eyeball plants, plant these beans, nab the floating creature. Many of these steps you have to do while splitting up and navigating un-intuitive pathways throughout the level that can be confusing to even find or plan out.

I didn't understand english as a kid so I never knew kazooie was a girl

>>10095613
Plenty of english-speakers also didn't know, somehow

Both are reaglly good games for different reasons. Rare replay for pc when?

>>10095959
The egg 'laying' part kinda gave it away

>>10096000
Yoshi lays eggs and he's a guy

>>10077118
I get that wasn't intentional and a lot of peopme don't like it, but I do feel like it ended up being integral to the game. It's a decent way to justify the lives system and makes losing a life painful enough to encourage more thoughtful gameplay.

Plus actually finding that last 1 percent of notes left is a pain in the ass without a trail to help recount your steps.

>>10095959
Reading is hard please understand

>>10095959
It's only mentioned about once or twice in both games.

You know what would have taken Click Clock Wood to the next level? If instead of the bee transformation in spring with Mumbo being away on the others, each season you would have one of the other transformations in the game:
Pumpkin = Autumn
Walrus = Winter
Croc = Spring
Ant = Summer

>>10077102
I loved this rare artwork as a kid so goddamn much. Always made the nintendo power magazine issues seem so much better

In what way could Mario 64 said to be superior? B-K is better in every respect but it came out later at a type when video games were actually developing at a rapid pace

>>10077094
Banjo mogs 64 in every way but came out two whole years later.
Mario 64 is like a mobile game in that you're in and out for one star, in contrast to Banjo's living world.

>>10085745
Nigger what the fuck, who the hell wants wall jumping in banjo. It's not mario, the limitations are fine. All they had to do was work on some of the stiffness and tooie does that. It's like people cant be satisfied unless theyre belly flopping around. The parts where you walk slowly on a thin bridge in bubblegoop are fun and tense, and reflect the attitudes of the time at the new analog. It's okay to have simple challenges if they step it up elsewhere

Medievil > both

>>10095959
Fact, Kazooie isn't called a girl at all in Banjo-Tooie, besides in the instructions manual.

>>10099198
I think a lot of us were spoiled by the Mario move set and so even though banjo moves pretty well and has plenty of versatile moves it is frustrating that he doesnt bing, bing or wahoo they way we want him to.

>>10099790
/thread

>>10101905
>>10099198
I only said wall jumping because I was answering the question. Banjo doesn't need any of mario's kit. Wall jumping would have been cool sure, but it would require a complete overhaul of the levels so fuck it. Although, Mumbo/Humba making a Cappy bootleg that lets you transform without having to go back to their hut constantly would be quite nice.

>>10095112
Being contrarian doesn’t make you interesting nor will it make you a woman.