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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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[ERROR] No.9598667 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

FUCK YES YOU ARE THE BEST BOSS FIGHT EVER.

>> No.9598694

psssh, armoured and meager damage for its size. The Ultra sucks.

>> No.9598702

1 marauder beats 1 ultra 1v1

>> No.9598724

>>9598702
kiting like a bitch sure. That waypoint must be awesome to watch

>> No.9598748

Zealot is here.
Marine is small time.

>> No.9598753

Wat? Fully upped the ultra is easily faster than the marauder, regardless of stim. 1 ultra can take out something like 200 lings, and deals baneling damage to buildings without esplodding.

>> No.9598757

lol useless Z ground T3

>> No.9598764

inb4 Zerg Queen new look.

>> No.9598770

>>9598753
Then it is a very awkward baneling for Tier 3?

>> No.9598773

>>9598753

>200 lings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik6t-clzBpI

>> No.9598775

>>9598753
newbs need not post

>> No.9598783

Ok /tg/, if you know the mechanics of SC2, balance the Ultralisk. Give him a role, damage and armour types, etc

>> No.9598803

>>9598783

Bringing some form of Dark Swarm back would go a LONG way towards helping balance the ultralisk.

>> No.9598832

Give him damage immunity except against bonuses, up the supply usage.

Thus if the opponent doesn't counter with specialists he's fucked and he steamrolls heavy things easily.

>> No.9598855

>>9598783
cheaper, Z ground units do not block ultralisk pathing, passive charge ability

>> No.9598932

>>9598855
what does not blocking pathing give except a mobile bunker? Unless the enemy uses splash

>> No.9598963

>>9598932
ultralisks can hit ground units w/o being blocked by other units...

>> No.9598976

>>9598932
It means that your units don't pile up uselessly, unable to do anything, while the ultralisk does its shitty single target attack.

>> No.9598992

>>9598976
>splash damage
>single target

>> No.9599036

>>9598992
Comparing to SC1.

>> No.9599149

>>9598783
Immune to Bonus damage

And/or has a passive Dark Swarm you can research to help him GET to melee.

OR bake one of his researchs into his base.

Part of the Ultralisks problem is you need to get one and then upgrade him a bunch. It's not too much to ask to get melee / armor upgrades from the evo before he comes out. However, having both a speed and armor upgrade kinda stinks.

Another idea would be to give him some way to not get caught up by your army. Giving him the ability to run over stuff would help a lot.

>> No.9599196

Hey look a hugafex :D

>> No.9599206

takes 10 ultralisks to kill one of this.

>> No.9599268

>>9599206

Moe like twenty smurfs to kill an ultralisk.

>> No.9599298

>>9599206
>>9599268
1:1 ratio!

>> No.9599320

Why does the enormous creature only have two pairs of giant blades? To kill other enormous creatures?

It would make a lot more sense to be covered in thousands of tiny, serrated blades everywhere.

>> No.9599330

>>9599149

Make him charge through friendlies?

Sending zerg units flying around randomly without damage.

spreads zerglings like a mother fucker and assists in flanking

>> No.9599349

>>9599298
>>9599268
>>9599206

inb4 Matt Ward

>> No.9599353

>>9599320
Because it can just stomp on most shit

>> No.9599408

>>9599330
Pathing changes won't fix the ultralisk. The Ultralisk's role (breaking entrenched prositions) is doomed for failure because the Brood Lord has the same niche and does it better.

Personally, I kind of like that the Ultralisk is still around and still useless. Wouldn't be Starcraft without them.

>> No.9599429

Give him the hardened defense of Immortals, and immunity to certain abilities. Call it Metabolic Caparace or something.

Then it does not matter that it has low hp and only units with high rof bring him down.

>> No.9599482

Wait, if scale was "realistic" in this game, wouldn't the Carrier and the battle Cruisers be something like an entire map-length long or something?

>> No.9599678

>>9599482
They're just really far away.

>> No.9599751

>>9599482

And a single battlecruiser would be able to glass the map with a yamato shot.

In the Inauragation cutscene, a yamato tores apart another battlecruiser like a fucking watermelon.

>> No.9599833

>>9599751

I remember that, the cruiser is simply obliterated in a shot. It makes me wonder why do they use anything else as weapons.

>> No.9599872

>>9599482
>>9599678
>>9599751
True, that was one thing that always sort of bothered me about starcraft, the lack of consistent scale. like an un-upgraded squad of marines shooting down battleCruisers in around 10 seconds or less (stims).

>> No.9599888

>>9599678
Yet marines can still shoot at them.

>> No.9599904

>>9599833
I'd always thought that it was because the Yamada takes massive energy and that battlecruisers should have many smaller lasers, not just the one in front. It just makes more sense to use lots of lasers that can one shot small squishies and drain very little energy then going straight to nuking from orbit

>> No.9599907

>>9598773
Could someone explain this? I'm not in the Beta. So the Ultra does 60 damage with a headbutt and 18 damage with the Kaiser blades? So a single attack does 60 on target with 18 splash?

>> No.9599944

>>9599833
I always thought that was kinda funny, then again, what are you expecting from a craft thats produced in around 60 seconds from minerals harvested from Rippley's floating powerloader clones.

>> No.9600027

>>9599907
It headbutts buildings. It is, now, a big unit that is weak in combat by its tech level and cost but it does special damage to buildings.

>> No.9600033

How about the Omegalisk or whatever the thing was scrapped?

You know the fuckhuge Ultra with RAEP tentacles?

>> No.9600066

>>9600033
It was to make it damage multiple units. Right now the Ultralisk has a small splash to represent the wide cut of its tusks.

>> No.9600102

>>9600066
Oh, I prefer the tentacles though.

But Blizzard scrapped them due to lol random patern not suitable for MP.

>> No.9600140

>>9598694

It got buffed the fuck up in SC2.

>> No.9600363

how to fix ultra:

-can walk over tiny units (ex. lings)
-give some +dmg to armored

The unit itself just does not mesh well with other units atm, especially lings.

Alternatively, give it a ramming ability. Let this ability break through anything with <50hp and forcefields.

>> No.9600454

>>9600363
OH GOD IT BREAKS THROUGH FORCEFIELDS

AWESOME. IT COULD BREAK HALLUCINATIONS TOO

>> No.9600506

>>9600363
>stepping on smaller units

What?

At best, this could be used against 'lings and larvae. Everything else is pretty large and covered in either really sturdy plates (plotanium armor, force fields, spiky death carapace) or filled with death (plasma, that yellow...stuff...in those new bane things).

Now, if you give them the ability to pick up and throw pylons...

>> No.9600516

10 years after and Starcraft still has fucking awful A.I

Jesus chirst

>> No.9600543

>>9600506
I believe he is talking about the ultra walking over them and not on them

>> No.9600598

>>9600543
Like, walking past them?

That's even more retarded. A flood of smaller creatures around your feet makes it harder to get around, unless you're suggesting that the programmers add in pathfinding that tells smaller units to give larger units a wide berth...

But that would require like, 10 minutes of intense programming. On the AI.

>> No.9600639

>>9600516
People would whine if they gave it good AI.

Then the CPM crowd can't win just because they can click faster than the other guy.

>> No.9600680

>>9600639
You mean rigging your mouse to click faster than the response time of the human finger doesn't actually make you a better tactician?

>> No.9600837

>>9600363
> Break forcefields
That would do a lot to fix the ultralisk and the sentry at the same time.

>> No.9601004

>>9600680
I would love to see a RTS game where the unit AI was both semi intelligent and a bit organic.

You could always override it, of course, but the AI would be capable of making some simple decisions on it's own.

Like if you leave two marines out as scouts on a possible route to your base, and half the enemy army shows up, the units attempt to retreat back to base after letting you know they've spotted the enemy.

Or if the fight seems a bit equal, they'll attempt to find a better position to give themselves the advantage. Or they'll work together, focusing fire on what appears to be the biggest threat or what they're best at killing, that sort of thing.

It wouldn't need to be amazingly complex or absolutely perfect, but make it so you don't have to babysit your units all the time.

>> No.9602401

>>9601004

Unfortunately, taking control away from the player is almost always a bad thing, and you'll be able to find an aggravating exception to most cases. Starcraft 2's AI does a few things for you, and while there are some people who claim Starcraft 2's AI is the death of RTS thats because they've already learned to keep up with ridiculous micro/attention resources.

In regards to your example, in SC2 what if that was implemented. lets say I have stalkers I want to blink up a ridge, and that brings them somewhat close to the enemy. I don't want them to start running away so I have to fix an order I just gave them. Or with sentries if they start running when I want them to forcefield down in the enemies. Or virtually any other unit if I want them to suicide into the army so I can accurately see/estimate their numbers.

I fully encourage RTS to develop better AI so as all players, seasoned or new, can focus on playing the game instead of focusing on passing arbitrary skill tests. If you win a game SOLELY based on building more shit than your opponent, (which if what you build is informed upon at all by your opponent this is not the case, so as you can see this is an incredibly niche concept) then you are not engaging in what RTS gameplay should be, you are playing a development game. You might as well be sitting in a room with another guy, each playing their own seperate game of tetris to see who can play the longest. It is the human interaction, not the arbitrary skill tests, that make an RTS interesting, and should be emphasized.

However, we should recognize how difficult of a problem it is to circumvent arbitrary skill tests, especially in the RTS genre.

>> No.9602525

>>9602401
As I said, you'd be able to overwrite anything they'd do naturally. Given the sentry example, perhaps it'd be a toggle: set a unit in sentry mode, and it'd watch for enemy units, specifically ping the mini map when it sees them, then take action based on what it sees. Toggle it off, and they won't do anything like that. And with a blip on the map, you could always cycle over really quick and issue them your own orders, which automatically override what they were doing, to talk about the suiciding example.

There'd certainly be units that would react in different ways to different situations, but the key would be that the units would never make use of complex commands. A stealth unit sent to scout, for example, might not retreat from the enemy, but it wouldn't be able to, say, attack a specific enemy unit in the formation, or otherwise make good use of it's surprise. That's something the player should really be doing.

It's the simple stuff I'd like to nip. Attack focus, running away, making use of terrain, stuff you pretty much always plan to do.

>> No.9602620

>>9602525
Other stuff could be done to really help with micro as well.

To use an example, in Company of Heroes, pretty much every unit has a contextual respond to actions given. What they say while moving is far different in the base than it is while they're in the middle of a fight, when you tell them to attack certain things(plain old infantry, for example, will clearly note ordering them to attack a tank is pointless). While it adds a bit of depth to the game and it's units, it also has a very important tactical use: the units will identify any enemy unit they see, and you can hear it no matter where they and you are on the map. So if I leave a unit to guard a specific point on the map, I don't even need to toggle over to it(at least, not instantly) to know what I'm dealing with, and I can quickly react to the situation.

>> No.9604292

Uh guys, I'm pretty sure they just came out with a map where you fight the "Badass Ultralisk". Seriously I just watched a vid of it on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB12Gy9zuFs&playnext_from=TL&videos=aayi6Tih550

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