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[ERROR] No.77849988 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Hangry Edition

>UA: Gothic Lineages
https://media.wizards.com/2021/dnd/downloads/UA2021_GothicLineages.pdf

>5e Trove
https://thetrove.is/Books/Dungeons%20%26%20Dragons%20%5Bmulti%5D/5th%20Edition%20%285e%29/

>5etools
https://5e.tools/

>Stable releases
https://get.5e.tools/

>Resources:
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck

>Previous thread: >>77843092

>Party approaches a giant roasting female over fire.
What do?

>> No.77850029

classes for this feel?

>> No.77850052

>>77849988
Fuck giant
Marry fire
Kill girl

>> No.77850054

>>77850029
The Elder Scrolls.
Spellblade.

>> No.77850059

>>77849988
Previous character:
>psychic message her and ask her what she'll give me to get her out of this
Or
>ask if I can try some, just a little

Current character:
>Shit's about to get chivalrous as fuck here.

>> No.77850062

>>77850029
There isn't one. Everyone wishes there was but really there isn't.

>> No.77850066

>> No.77850070

>>77850029
Paladin, the only /5eg/ approved gish

>> No.77850086

God damn how do I make combat? CR is fucking pointless as I’ve put them in bad spots with CR1/4 and they wiped the floor with CR 8. I’m not trying to kill the party but make them use everything in their arsenal to win. If the artificer still has spell slots, the Druid hasn’t even used the bag of tricks I gave him and the barbarian still has rages left then I feel like I made it boring

>> No.77850101

>>77850059

>> No.77850118

>>77850029
4E Swordmage.

>> No.77850141

>>77850029
>light armor
>a sword
>magicky shit
It's literally a bladesinger

>> No.77850149

>>77849988
We have a charmed Ogre. I think that scent of roastimg meat would trigger something in his tiny brain and moron would go berserk and try to bite off giant's kneecaps.

>> No.77850151

>trying to drag an argument from the old into the new
Why is there always one autistic freak who does this?

>> No.77850153

>>77850029
Literally Blood Hunter

>> No.77850178

Here's your sorcerer, bro

>> No.77850183

>>77850141
You and I both know that person wants to be a proper spellsword rather than a normal pure wizard but with AC tricks.

>> No.77850187

>>77850151
shut the FUCK up faggot

>> No.77850199

>>77850178
is that supposed to be booming blade?

>> No.77850207

>>77850029
Eldritch Knight?

>> No.77850218

>>77850086
Varied monsters and varied room design
Not every fight has to be balls to the wall as long as it makes them use up some resources

>> No.77850233

What are your opinions on the Firearms in the DMG? Are they all overpowered, can they all fit into a setting without too much hassle, or is there a middle ground between them?

>> No.77850246

>>77850199
no its cooming blade retard

>> No.77850259

>>77850178
>dragonborn
>tail

>> No.77850261

>>77850187
Found the autistic freak who tried to drag the argument across

>> No.77850267

>>77850086
Depleting all their resources every fight would be boring

>> No.77850272

>>77850178
ok you can join but you have to remove the belts
and the dress
and the leggings
be naked, just be naked
leave the scarf on though

>> No.77850286

>>77850101
I did and do specifically have him insist on good manners almost constantly. He did have kind of an outburst after someone objectively guilty and found legally guilty managed to get out of her punishment by just paying a blood price.

>> No.77850292

>>77850086
Burning resources doesn't equal interesting combat anon

>> No.77850295

>>77850029
There are a million options for gishes.
- Hexblades
- Sorcadins
- AT's
- Multiclass AT's
- Hexbards
- Bardins
- Hexblade EK's
- Hexadins
- Rangers
- Paladins

And many more multiclass options.

>> No.77850309

>>77850233
They are fine, as they have damage dice like any other and you can just limit ammo for a gun unlike with a bow or crossbow
> anyone can find sticks and stones to make arrow head but they can’t just buy bullets, especially those that are from lost civilizations
The Renaissance guns are fine to put in any setting as they aren’t strong enough to be broken but with gunner are the same as crossbows
Now the modern and future weapons can fit if you want them to but I’d say first test the water with flintlocks and muskets

>> No.77850319

>>77850233
Lazy design, they're basically crossbows+

>> No.77850321

>session starts with a 1v1 duel of the worst player vs an enemy

>> No.77850322

>>77850178
>exposed dragon feet
alright you're in but no multiclassing

>> No.77850340

>>77850319
Tell that to reality

>> No.77850358

>>77850086
I don't agree with everything this guy says, but this was some really good advice imo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_zl8WWaSyI&ab_channel=MatthewColville

>> No.77850368

>>77850178
>bottom bitch twink
>holding a sword ready to fight
Not believable at all but you're free to be the party cumdump

>> No.77850385

>>77850029
>still no elder scrolls ttrpg
bros....

>> No.77850391

How do wizards get advantage? (Barring the owl, which can die to any enemy ranged attack or ready action)

>> No.77850400

Rolled 16 + 6 (1d20 + 6)

>>77850178
I roll sleight of hand to reach under his robe

>> No.77850411

>>77850400
>sleight of hand
>not ripping it off of him in public and showing him off to assert dominance

>> No.77850428

>>77850340
But in reality they're sidegrades, not a direct improvement.
Powder gets wet, guns make lot of noise and smoke and are much slower to reaload compared to crossbows.
The DMG firearms are just crossbows with a higher damage die.

>> No.77850449

>>77850391
Oh I don't know have you tried looking at their spell list? There are several spells at every single level that would qualify.

>> No.77850459

>>77850086
Its mostly have a decent number of combats per day.

>> No.77850460

>>77850178
It saddens me how there's basically no water themed spells in d&d

>> No.77850475

>>77850385
>lazy money milking studio goes out of its way to sell the same game 20 times
>can't lazily milk free money by paying a random retard to make a ttrpg
It's baffling

>> No.77850478

>>77850460
There are but most are Druid exclusive
Malestrom is fun to combo with other casters

>> No.77850492

>>77850178
Does he enjoy having his armpits licked?

>> No.77850498

>>77850400
>under his robe
>his
get your eyes checked

>> No.77850505

>>77850492
yes

>> No.77850512

Why is /tg/ so horny today?

>> No.77850513

>>77850498
>he doesn't know

>> No.77850524

>>77850512
/tg/ is always horny

>> No.77850536

>>77850512
>today

>> No.77850539

What's some good spells to bust out for damage dealing if you're mostly playing an Enchantment based Sorcerer? I feel as though I need that one big fucking bang of a spell for when shit really hits the fan and Crowd Control isn't going to be enough.

I don't like fireball.

>> No.77850541

>>77850178
wait is this actually supposed to be a guy?

>> No.77850557

what second level spells should i take on my divination wizard? i've already taken scorching ray and mirror image. i was thinking about hold person and invisibility. are there any others i should consider taking?

>> No.77850573

>>77850539
Synaptic Static but that's a 5th level spell so you might be waiting a bit

>> No.77850575

>>77850178
Sorry, our party only allows TWT (twinks who top)

>> No.77850579

>>77850557
Web is really good.

>> No.77850590

>>77850539
Lightning Bolt?

>> No.77850599

>>77850557
>divination
>scorching ray, mirror image, hold person, invisibility
Retardation doesn't really comes as a surprise from a frogposter

>> No.77850634

>>77850539
>>77850590
Or Tidal Wave?

>> No.77850667

>>77850539
since you don't like fireball you could take lightning bolt or melf's minute meteors as a third level spell. i'm not sure if shooting off a meteor counts as a spell, but if it doesn't it would free you up to cast another spell while shooting meteors as a bonus action.

>> No.77850689

>>77850599
> Taking spells that aren't a part of your school, so you can save money scribing them into your spellbook later.
He may be a Frogposter, but he might be right.

>> No.77850698

>>77850178
There better be a porn version of this

>> No.77850711

>>77850698
That is the porn version degenerate

>> No.77850738

>>77850711
doesn't look like the porn version to me

>> No.77850750

>>77850086
CR is indeed fucked up and 5e's big flaw is it's hard to make consistently good encounters for a day.

As always I'd suggest thinking about how there could be side objectives in combat. Not just 'kill enemy, don't get killed' but stuff like:
>Creatures or objects you don't want to get damaged during combat (exploding ming vase or a hostage, say)
>Traps, doors and various objects to interact with for both allies and enemies
>Soft limitations (in a pub brawl, you'd definitely lose respect for pulling out a greataxe or dropping a fireball. The fight isn't necessarily just about killing the opponents but just perhaps 'pacifying' them. Another example is just "don't make too much noise", but again, it's not as if the players are executed for disobeying these implied rules)
>Optional objectives, stated obviously or not, such as to steal a spellcaster's shit before they teleport away or to kill an enemy in a way specifically mentioned to preserve it
and there are really endless suggestions like that.

So how does that help? Not at all! That just makes it even harder to prepare for combats. So let me give you an actual answer: Get good at eyeballing it and remember, action economy is king. A single CR 14 enemy couldn't beat a party of low-ish levels whereas a bunch of low CRs could down a guy and kill him before anyone else even gets a turn. Put more weight on multiples of enemies.

>> No.77850758

Lightning Bolt should reach 100 feet regardless of whether or not something stops its progress. It should reflect off any obstacles like a lazer off a mirror until the 100 feet limit had been reached.

>> No.77850761

>>77850322
Haha what if you fucked him in the ass while he curled his feet in your face

>> No.77850762

>>77850539
Well, in tough situations you'll prefer crowd control rather than the other way around. Other than that, fireball really is your easiest burst damage option. Otherwise, flaming sphere for sustained damage, or if you really need a damage blast you could grab erupting earth.. it's worse but what can you do.

>>77850557
Web and levitate instead of hold person.

>>77850599
Retardation would be taking divination spells.

>> No.77850769

>>77850539
>What are some good spells to bust out for damage dealing?
>I don't like the spell that does the actual damage dealing.
just don't bother, then.

>> No.77850800

>>77850758
Oh fuck this, I hated this so much in baldur's gate. I swear my own lightingbolt killed more allies than both campaigns and DLC's.

>>77850689
It's stupid how it works that way to begin with. They should have balanced it around the wizard of said school adding a spell of this school to their spellbook or tied it to arcane recovery instead.

>> No.77850801

>>77850758
that gets imoen killed

>> No.77850809

>>77850086
According to my GM and it seems to have worked well for us, the math works out to ~7 resource expending encounters during an adventuring day. I dunno if that helps.

>> No.77850819

>>77850689
>>77850599
there's a lot of combat in our campaign at the moment, so i've thought about taking combat spells. also, there's not all that many divination 2nd level spells. i suppose detect thoughts and clairvoyance are pretty strong.

>>77850579
web seems cool since it's basically aoe hold person

>> No.77850825

>>77850800
>>77850801
Yes.

>> No.77850839

>>77850762
That's the thing, Fireball is objectively one of the better damage dealing spells.

>> No.77850863

To be fair though if a combat is designed with non-standard objectives it's possible for the party to lose without dying, or it's possible for the party to fail a secondary objective/ignore a choice that might have gotten them respect, but live.

You don't have to have the players succeed 24/7 and you don't have to hit your players with 'a big bad appears and wipes your party and laughs at them and spares them out of pity, you couldn't win this fight'. If the players fail to defend a village then village gone. As long as the players didn't spend all their time creating that village (i.e. shafting their progress), it'll hurt but it won't make the players want to stop playing.

>> No.77850877

>>77850449
True Strike (Takes up your concentration)
Greater Invisibility (Concentration)
Any spell that creates familiars/pets/summons/simulacrum to help you, or one that holds/traps a person
Foresight

>> No.77850913

>>77850825
well, she's canonically dead anyways

>> No.77850923

>in the process of making an artificer
>feel the pull of Samurai again

I hate character creation I get so indecisive

>> No.77850970

>>77850923
You have only one choice now
>artificer with katana
>high tech samurai

>> No.77850976

>>77850923
Samurai's one of those ones that I've really wanted to try out but don't think I'd be happy with in the long term because it does boil down to "attack, attack, attack." But a Wood Elf Samurai with the standard array taking Elven Accuracy at 4th, Sharpshooter at 6th, and +2 Dex at 8 seems like a perfectly efficient character - no point of stat allocation wasted.

>> No.77851004

>>77850557
Level 2 wizard spells I think are good (wizard's level 2s aren't that strong but hey):
>Control:
Web
Hold Person
>Damage:
Dragon's Breath(With flyby familiar)
Cloud of Daggers(If teammates have abilites that move enemies)
>Utility/creative/fun:
Enlarge/Reduce
Suggestion
Magic Mouth
Alter Self
>Defence
Misty Step

>> No.77851007

>>77850557
magic mouth is mandatory

>> No.77851019

>>77850923
Samurai is just worse battlemaster
EK is just worse battlesmith

>> No.77851061

Alright got a fresh recruit that could be good and he wants to play sorcerer. Big red flag for noobs to play casters but hes played neverwinter nights and some other crpgs so how bad can it be. I dont give a shit about casters so any tips must have spells feat? Hes draconic bloodline.

>> No.77851116

All new players play wizards. And they all think they can do everything like stealth, diplomacy, frontlining. And they all fucking suck. It always ends up with them casting a massive sleep hitting half the party. Why does this happen.

>> No.77851125

>>77851019
EK is superior to battlesmith on the martial side of things.

>> No.77851129

Is it just me, or are spells like simulacrum, true polymorph, clone, etc world and game breaking?

>> No.77851131

>>77851116
I blame gandolf

>> No.77851148

>>77850178
You can join but only if he makes a dexterity check with his tongue on my dick

>> No.77851163

>>77851131
WHY DONT PEOPLE WANNA BE FUCKING LEGOLAS WHAT YEAR IS THIS

>> No.77851169

>>77851129
It's just you

>> No.77851182

>>77851163
I wanna be gilmi

>> No.77851192

>>77851163
see
>>77850976

>> No.77851193

>>77851116
>new players play wizards
I've never seen a new player pick wizard unless they're an autistic person who really wants to learn the game. Warlocks, sorcs, and wizards are next to nonexistent among new players. Bards/rangers/monks/clerics/artificers are actually nonexistent, though. It's all paladins, fighters, barbarians, and rogues.

>> No.77851205

>>77851182
based

>> No.77851211

>>77851116
My first 5e character was a Warlock. He was a blast, I miss that amoral psychopath.

>> No.77851227

>>77851116
My first character being a wizard, I take offense to this.

>> No.77851238

>>77851116
>It always ends up with them casting a massive sleep hitting half the party
What the hell you can't even do this by accident.

>> No.77851257

What are some FUN combos you can do with Echo Knight

>> No.77851267

>>77851227
Did you suicide in the frontline? Did you deal massive friendly fire because MUH DPS?

>> No.77851290

>>77851238
He said it would be worth.

>> No.77851312

>>77851290
The spell literally does not affect creatures in the area that the caster doesn't want it to affect.

>> No.77851331

>>77851267
No, I was mostly using Tasha's hideous laughter and tried earning money to cast find familiar and buy a bronze brazier somehow. I died when the ranger pushed me down the stairs of a crypt to save the fighter- of course I took falling damage and couldn't escape afterwards. Wisps killed us all except for the ranger.

>> No.77851347

>>77851312
What? That's not true, you can friendly fire with Sleep.

>> No.77851361

>>77851331
>I died when the ranger pushed me down the stairs of a crypt to save the fighter
>Wisps killed us all except for the ranger.

>> No.77851406

>>77851347
I don't know why I'm responding to a retard but you literally can't.

>> No.77851426

>>77851406
Wanna read the rules and try again?

>> No.77851468

>>77851406
It affects creatures in a 20 foot area, in ascending order of HP left. That can very much include friendlies. Sculpt Spell can prevent that obviously, but only for Evocation wizards.

>> No.77851478

>>77851116
>first character unironically was a human fighter
>mfw people got mad at me for being too basic

>> No.77851489

>>77851478
Hey man, the classics are classics for a reason.

>> No.77851494

>>77851468
Well...no, it's not an Evocation so you can't Sculpt it anyway but even if you could there's no save, so "automatically succeeding on its save" does nothing for your ally.

>> No.77851516

>>77851494
Oh shit you're right. The 20 foot area & creatures in ascending HP still applies though.

>> No.77851539

>>77851516
Yeah, he's retarded to say that it can't friendly fire, and I love that he completely shut up when he realized how wrong he was.

>> No.77851591

>>77850178
he cute

>> No.77851791

>>77850178
>melee with a d6 hit die
no no WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING YOU MANIAC

>> No.77851818

>>77851791
Unironically used to work competently before the booming blade nerf to not work with twinned metamagic. Thanks, wieners of the coast

>> No.77851893

>>77850178
when will wotc just bite the bullet and give all dragonborn canon tails

>> No.77851931

>>77851818
why is crawford so retarded

>> No.77851946

What are the rules for character creation at your table? Any books you want? Only specific books? PHB +1?

>> No.77851981

>paladin just broke his oath
holy shit I didn't think the DM had the nuts for it

>> No.77852009

>>77851946
GM limited races & changed them a bit, everyone gets a feat, and we started at level 5.

>> No.77852038

>>77851125
The only thing they're really any better at is burst damage in the form of Action Surge. Beyond Action Surge, they have, what? Nothing?

>> No.77852053

>>77851981
Oh no the paladin is about to evolve to a stronger subclass that lets him do even more damage!!
or is this a 'I forced the paladin to break his oath he had no choice haha sucks to be you' paladin moment? Because that's not really breaking oath.

>> No.77852100

>>77851946
No Lucky feat and nothing with an inherent flying speed at level 1. If it's at a con or otherwise for strangers, PHB+1.

>> No.77852102

>>77851818
>used to work competently
>had to dip into paladin
>basically a bladesinger but with no AC
>quicken, twinned, twinned for 2 attacks on 2 targets for 3 sorcery points. 2d8 of booming blade damage, 2d8 of weapon damage, then modifier. Literally 4d8 + mod of damage to 2 targets for 3 sorc. points, literally just cast fireball

>> No.77852138

>>77852102
No, it worked without having to dip at all. Although if you dipped paladin you were a classic broken sorcadin.

>literally just cast fireball
I'd rather do 2d8+2d4+2xdex for once sorcery point instead of spending a 3rd level slot, thank you very much.

>basically a bladesinger but with no AC
More damage. Much more damage in fact.

>> No.77852181

>>77852053
the redemption paladin attacked a surrendering enemy of his own volition
Its unclear if he just stopped a smite from the paladin or revoked his subclass

>> No.77852207

One of my players thinks their character is lawful evil JUST because they are playing a conservative cleric. How can I call him out for being retarded without being called a alt right nazi bigot sandwich? Maybe we should just get rid of alignment

>> No.77852236

>>77850178
will he still be able to concentrate on his spells if I'm tongue fucking his ass?

>> No.77852249

>>77852181
>"Wisdom. Your heart and mind must stay clear, for eventually you will be forced to admit defeat. While every creature can be redeemed, some are so far along the path of evil that you have no choice but to end their lives for the greater good. Any such action must be carefully weighed and the consequences fully understood, but once you have made the decision, follow through with it knowing your path is just."
Could have decided that the man was too far steeped in evil.

>> No.77852272

>>77852207
Unless they're doing things that are objectively evil, hit them with a alignment change... Or just tell them they're being a faggot.

>> No.77852277

>>77852207
Alignment in dnd is based upon medieval values, so a soldier chopping off a person's hand for stealing bread to feed his family is considered a "lawful good" action.
alignment is not based on what we, the player perceive as right and good it is based upon the archaic mediaval morality of questionable gods

>> No.77852318

>>77852207
Anon, if they cant tell the difference between conservative and evil then its too late for them. I think it'd be funny to see if you could red pill him by having him RP a conservative interact with wholesome conservative families and communities

>> No.77852340

>>77852277
Im pretty sure even in that sense, the head chopping is just lawful neutral.

>> No.77852370

>>77850178
>"I cast booming blade" the character

>> No.77852376

Would creatures like Devas that are inherently magical but aren't given any spellslots conceivably be able to use spell scrolls?

>> No.77852377

>>77852249
tried that argument but DM said no
also it was really unclear, they believed we were sheltering a bad guy

>> No.77852447

>>77852207
Alignment is mostly based on the intent behind a character's actions, so even if his acts are lawful good, if his character has selfish reasons for them he can justify being lawful evil.

Feel free to lavish them with praise for being such a good person, while unwitting to their true intent.

>> No.77852451

>>77852181
Hard to judge from just that alone, though actually smiting a surrendering enemy draws suspicion

>> No.77852462

>>77852376
Yes, but the scroll must be of the correct type, divine or arcane. Figuring out which one it is for Devas specifically is tricky. The initial gut feeling says divine, but the fact that their spells are innate and that they use charisma tells me its more sorcerous in nature.

>> No.77852474

>>77852451
I think he just stopped a smite as a warning to the paladin
the original post was my initial reaction

>> No.77852495

>>77850178
>those hips
are we sure this isn't a girl dragon?

>> No.77852511

>>77850259
This will never not annoy me. So many people assume dragonborns have tails.

>> No.77852525

>>77852495
Of course its a female, anon.
It just doesnt have breasts because its a fucking reptile.

>> No.77852534

>>77852495
it's just a femboy bro

>> No.77852544

>>77852525
dragons in dnd are warmblooded

>> No.77852545

>>77850259
>>77852511
Fuck all of you. Dragonborn deserve tails.

>> No.77852550

>>77852138
Why are you using a dagger, wouldn't you start mountain dwarf for medium armor + better weapon proficiency?

But alright, assuming +4 dex, you'd be at like 16 AC, 21 with shield spell.
2d8 + 2d4 + 8 at level 5, 22 DPR
4d8 + 2d4 + 10 at level 11, (Dex increase) 33 DPR
8d8 + 2d4 + 10 at level 17, 51 DPR.

You could start adding in concentration spells for damage, like SB would could be used with BB, but you'd have no method of not breaking concentration (and concentration spells are where all your damage and control is coming from). Meanwhile the Bladesinger gets +5 to CON saves and +5 to AC. At level 6, if both the bladesinger and quicken-sorc are using shadowblade as their concentration spell, it's
8d8 + 8 for sorc
7d8 + 1d6 + 8 for bladesinger

Sorc uses 1 sorc point normally, 3 for two targets. If there's two targets, the sorc can deal 43 DPR to both. Bladesinger only has 3 uses of bladesong, so those are the only times they can be in melee safely. Sorc probably breaks shadowblade concentration after 1 round and their damage is immediately halved

Imo, I'm not gonna lie, both are pretty shit as martials.

>> No.77852563

>>77852545
Dragonborn are lame as PCs.

>> No.77852572

>>77852462
Paladins use divine power, and their spells are charisma based

>> No.77852586

>>77852545
Hey, there's a published option for dragonborn with tails.

Just use critical role content.

>> No.77852590

>>77852545
You will never twin Dragon's Breath.

>> No.77852615

>>77851257
I used my echo to avoid traps and get past a 200 foot long trap maze the DM had set up. I got kicked from the group the next session for killing a rat that turned out to be a person.

It was a shitty game. The DM did not like DND but ran it anyways and filled it with shitty homebrew. Like monsters having 200 hp when we were level 4. And then wouldn't play in one offs I ran for the group.

>> No.77852616

>>77852572
Thats true, I didnt think of that.
I still stand with my opinion that Deva's use arcane, as it specifically says their magic is innate, while we all know that paladins receive their power from JESUS.

>> No.77852617

>>77852550
Actually, 14** AC because sorcerers don't get armor proficiency. But I guess they could use mage armor to start with 17 AC.

>> No.77852636

>>77852616
Paladins get power from their conviction in their oath, not from a higher power like clerics do.

>> No.77852642

>>77852563
Maybe you've only ever played with lame players.
>>77852586
Dont you put that gay CR shit on me.

>> No.77852656

>>77850178
he looks friendly :3c

>> No.77852658

>>77852636
Same thing

>> No.77852663

>>77852642
Lizardfolk are better, what niche do dragonborn fit? Gnomes are also worthless.

>> No.77852666

>>77852590
This hurt me more than any sentence I've ever read on this website

>> No.77852676

>>77852658
In Eberron, maybe. In general, clerics get their powers as a gift from their deities. Paladins get their powers from believing in their manifest destiny.

>> No.77852695

>>77852663
I would like to agree on the lizardfolk, but I dont want to be an alien-minded unempathetic cannibal.

>> No.77852710

>>77852676
Same thing.

>> No.77852718

>>77852663
>what niche do dragonborn fit
Civilised scalies. Lizardfolk are reptile people, barely able to function in society at large due to an alien view of the world. Dragonborn are just humans with scales.

>> No.77852719

>>77852676
Can't they still have their powers given to them like they did in previous editions?

>> No.77852726

>>77852550
This was pre-tasha's. And you're forgetting a crucial detail for the build- divine sorcerers have access to spirit guardians, which works *really* well with booming blade. Spiritual weapon, mirror image, blink- lots of great ways to boost damage and defenses appropriately. Although I suppose shadow blade works at certain levels too.

>you'd have no method of not breaking concentration
Sorcerers have proficiency in constitution saving throws, and divine sorcs get a once per long rest bonus to saves. Definitely grab warcaster too.

>Sorc uses 1 sorc point normally, 3 for two targets.
I don't follow- it's 3 only if you quicken.

As for race, I left it open because there are multiple good options- goblins for example can easily disengage to get the rider damage and have boosts to dexterity and con. Variant humans always work well, and half elves start with a 16 or higher in multiple stats.

Bladesingers have higher AC, but they don't benefit from having access to Spirit guardians, spiritual weapon, at the time they didn't get the bonus damage from cantrips, their AC doesn't work if you want to use another kind of weapon that isn't finesse (which I'd do on the sorc if I were doing the mountain dwarf version) and can't use quicken to use big spells while they are twinning booming blade either.

>> No.77852731

>>77852695
>>77852718
Which is a niche that isn't needed.

>> No.77852746

>>77852719
Absolutely they can, this is just the default assumption in the PHB.

>> No.77852747

Why are lizardfolk one of the mechanically better designed races? They get a bunch of cool mechanics that are thematically appropriate to boot but it never really strays into "Woah this is completely broken" territory. Why did WotC get it right here but made so many other races samey or mechanically underwhelming?

>> No.77852749

>>77852663
Gnomes are cool.. in pathfinder.

>> No.77852753

Does Two Weapon Fighting synergize with Echo Knight at all? Cause I'm kinda torn on my weapon choice, on one hand I want to go ham with two axes. But on the other hand I would like to describe my great axe as a bardiche as I throw some fat swings out

>> No.77852756

>>77852718
Real shit. Dragonborn in my setting are just humans born with a little too much dragon from their draconic bloodline.

>> No.77852763

>>77852663
>I wanna play a HALF-DRAGON!!
>Yes Dragon's Breath can be twinned shut up stop reading the rules
that niche

>> No.77852770

>>77852749
I like eberron gnomes too but yeah, the PF ones with the bleaching are actually interesting.

>> No.77852773

>>77852731
Which niche? Alien savages or normal people?

>> No.77852777

>>77852747
They did it right with Variant Human, which were present right from the beginning.

>>77852753
No, you'd be constrained by your bonus action if you ever want to teleport to your echo/make a new one. Definitely reflavor.

>> No.77852778

>>77852763
Ah.

>> No.77852787

>>77852773
Normal people. You have a plethora of normal people races. Dragonborn are lame. It's ok to like lame things, I know I do.

>> No.77852816

>>77852787
Nah, I cannot vibe with having to be a savage who has to be persuaded not to eat my friend's corpses.

>> No.77852837

>>77852747
And Bugbears too honestly. Say what you want about the people bugbear attracts or the logistics of a PC being a monstrous goblinoid, by the extra reach and ambush abilities are unique things that can add a fair to be a character mechanically. How did the company that made these two races also make genasi?

>> No.77852839

>>77852787
Well, with Tasha's changes to stat bonuses there is even less reason to ever play a Dragonborn. Their features have to be the least useful ones in 5th edition, and now that everyone else can get the right stats to play a Paladin, they are suddenly F tier in that as well.

>>77852816
You can play a lizardfolk that's already been persuaded on his adventures before the campaign to skip that part.

>> No.77852851

>>77852816
Bro just eat your enemies' corpses instead

>> No.77852854

>>77852719
>>77852746
I know I still use the idea 4e introduced of power, once granted, not being possible to take back.

So clerics and paladins, the true ones with divine magic, are rare, as gods are cautious about who they give the gift of divine magic to. Because once you give someone that ability, it can't be taken back if they turn on you.

Also works well with warlocks

>> No.77852856

>>77850178
>that smug face
I want to smash his face with a mallet until it caves in

>> No.77852857

>>77852839
>lizardfolk that's already been persuaded on his adventures before the campaign to skip that part.
Ya, it is just an option for personality traits. you don't have to pick it. If you don't want to play as an "eat everything scavenger", don't.

>> No.77852859

>>77852839
Nope. Has got to be fully civilized, not even a part of his biology.

>> No.77852862

>>77852816
It's a waste of good meat

>> No.77852871

>>77852837
4e genasi were cool

Overpowered, but cool.

>> No.77852892

>>77852859
Biologically vegan lizard people? That is the only kind of lizard people for you? Just be an iguanafolk. They are herbavores.

>> No.77852898

>>77850118
why did they remove this class

>> No.77852915

>>77852851
>tfw no features for eating corpses

>> No.77852919

>>77852859
Why are you playing something that isn't a human then?

>> No.77852934

>>77852839
A lizardfolk who plays the UA Dragon Monk or just a caster with access to Dragon's Breath unironically makes a better Dragonborn. You get the breath by more frequently, natural armour, a natural weapon with a decent use, swim speed if you want to play as a descendant of one of the aquatic dragon types, actual darkvision and one or two other features. The only thing you don't have is the elemental resistance

>> No.77852942

>>77852898
They had good taste

>> No.77852946

>>77852892
Lizardpeople have predominantly iguana-like traits anyways
Head frills, aquatic/marine adaptations, cheeks, and just the general phyiscal structure of their heads and tails resemble iguanas moreso than any other lizard

>> No.77852968

>>77852892
Who said anything about vegan?

>> No.77852978

>>77852934
>swim speed
VGM lizardfolk already have a swim speed of 30 ft.

But the rest of it sounds fun.

>> No.77852992

>>77852919
Because not all non humans are uncivilized cannibals?

>> No.77853003

>>77852968
>>77852859
>not even a part of his biology

Eating meat implies the ability to eat meat that talked back.

>> No.77853017

>>77852898
it was too based for 5e

>> No.77853025

>>77852978
>VGM lizardfolk already have a swim speed of 30 ft
I know. I was saying they have swim speed if they want to RP as related to Bronze/Blue dragons

>> No.77853028

>>77853003
Yeah, but most meat eating people still feel disgust at eating others of their own kind.

>> No.77853039

>>77850178
I want to pet the scale mane on his neck

>> No.77853047

>>77852992
If it's not a human, it's uncivilized. You can get the cannibal out of a lizardfolk easy anyhow.

>> No.77853079

>>77853047
>If it's not a human, it's uncivilized.
What about half-elfs, half-orcs, and the like? Are they foederati in this Human Imperium?

>> No.77853087

>>77853028
Most species run the risk of getting very sick if they eat their own kind. This is where most prion diseases come from.

>> No.77853099

So, reptiles: while they don't have boobs and fall victim to "worldbuilding" retardation, they DO have pectoral muscles which means I can make overly muscular dragonborn with huge sexualized pecs and biceps while getting significantly less criticized than booba lizards, no?

>> No.77853112

>>77853047
Ah so all those dwarven and elven civilizations dont count.

>> No.77853113

Lizardfolks are supposed to be Crocodilefolks.

You can easily brew up other types of lizards/reptiles/whatever by switching some abilities around.

>> No.77853115

>>77852915
Talk to your DM, bro.

>> No.77853118

>>77850178
*strangles him with his own scarf and throws him into the furfag incinerator*

>> No.77853125

>>77853079
>half-orcs
I think many half orcs live alongside normal orcs as if they were full blooded. So while you wouldn't be entirely correct calling them uncivilised, you're not exactly wrong to do so either

>> No.77853140

>>77852726
>spirit guardians
Yeah, spirit guardians is really strong. I think going by pure DPS, shadowblade is significantly stronger than it on twin-sorc, though. As 2x as much damage on failed saves, 4x on successful saves. But I think spiritual guardians hits everything, while you can only smack one (or two) things with shadowblade.
>proficiency in constitution saving throws. warcaster
Proficiency in con saves starts out really shitty, then gets better as the game goes on. With +5 from proficiency (assuming +0 con) and advantage, it'd be pretty good odds. I don't think it'd be good as a bladesinger with resilient (CON) (also +0 con), though, +10 with no advantage. (Someone please do the math). But I guess they'd be pretty equal in that regard late game. The sorc would get hit a lot more, though, due to their significantly lower AC.
>I don't follow- it's 3 only if you quicken.
Isn't it 1 to quicken the cantrip so you can it as a bonus action, then 2 to twin both? If you only twin it, you have to attack two separate targets.

True, spiritual weapon is honestly broken. But, it uses your bonus action to attack. So both spirit guardians and spiritual weapons don't really come into play unless you don't intend to use metamagic at all (which is your biggest DPS). At that point, all you'd be doing is a single twinned booming blade.
>AC doesn't work if you want to use another kind of weapon that isn't finesse
True, they get a lot more options.
>can't use quicken to use big spells while they are twinning booming blade either
True, if the bladesinger casts a big spell it means they'll have to forego booming blade. But they can still attack with mainhand + offhand.

>> No.77853146

>>77853047

>> No.77853154

>>77853099
No. Make wide-hipped slinky lizard girls or riot.

>> No.77853155

>>77853099
That is correct. Bonus points if they've got an extra set of arms because those will need their own set of pecs too.

>> No.77853157

>>77853079
Bastards, they have unsavory instincts to them from their heritage.

>>77853112
Yes

>> No.77853162

>>77853155
Crios?

>> No.77853177

>>77850178
what CON does he have to have that kind of muscle definition

>> No.77853190

>>77853162
Que?

>> No.77853196

>>77853177
Uh, str is your definition. Con is just mass.

A character with 8 strength and 14 con is a fat bastard absorbing blows into their layers of blubber.

>> No.77853205

>>77853190
Nada, just a guy that REALLY likes 4 arms or more on fantasy reptiles.

>> No.77853209

>>77853099
>getting significantly less criticized
People don't care about the logistics, you'll get called a scalie either way and you'll only increase the heckling if you cope your way through it

>> No.77853210

>>77853196
stats don't need to have visual cues, but I like it.

>> No.77853223

>>77853205
Guess I havent lurked enough to know him.

>> No.77853225

>>77853099
Fucking die in a fire.

>> No.77853231

>>77853196
>All monks, wizards, sorcerers, Dex Fighters and rogues are fat
Interesting

>> No.77853241

>>77853146
>He doesn't know about rat elves
Poor, deluded fool.

>> No.77853248

>>77853113
Based.

>> No.77853251

>>77853196
Nah a fat bastard will bleed like a pig.
Constitution is a measure of your health.
High con makes for beautiful people.

>> No.77853260

>>77853251
20 str 16 con

>> No.77853307

>>77853251
High con low strength is a reedy fucker. The kind of hard-headed bastard who you can pound on all day but despite weighing less than a twig he just will not stay down.

High con high strength is a bulky bastard. Someone with the core mass the be able to consistently withstand the strain he's putting on himself through heavy lifting and powerful swings.

>> No.77853339

>>77853140
Spirit guardians is AOE, and it gives a movement penalty as well meaning you're also applying some control by standing on the frontlines, and if you have ways to disengage (such as a party member having cast a fog cloud or you being a goblin or the like) or are using the spell sniper meme on whips (proficiency not included in the standard sorc package) you can force them to get booming blade damage as well. Much better scaling than shadow blade too.

>Proficiency in con saves starts out really shitty, then gets better as the game goes on.
It starts out shitty at the tiers of play where you don't really need it as much.
I always assume 16 Con on this build, the hit points are crucial: at level 5 you'd have +6 to your con saves with advantage. Level 20 it's +9 with advantage. For the bladesinger with 16 con (more likely to be 14 because they need dexterity and int a lot more-so reduce either their AC or Con save by 1 as I'll hereafter only mention the max values possible), they'd have +6 with advantage at level 5 as well (although bladesingers are less likely to grab warcaster, as they need to scale their int). The sorcerer would get Favored by the gods, an extra 2d4 (+5 on average) every short/long rest to their saves which is stellar. The bladesinger with warcaster would have 3 more armor class than our sorcerer here, admittedly.
At level 20, the bladesinger has, assuming 20 int, 5 more AC and +8 to their con save (again assuming 16 con).

>Isn't it 1 to quicken the cantrip so you can it as a bonus action, then 2 to twin both? If you only twin it, you have to attack two separate targets.
Right, twinning two targets is normally the plan here.

>So both spirit guardians and spiritual weapons don't really come into play
They do? Spirit guardians doesn't take your action, and neither does spiritual weapon. So you'd be using twinned booming blades with your action. You're mentioning that it is 'all you'd be doing', but it's a lot of damage.

>cont

>> No.77853353

+2 DEX ASI or Sharpshooter for mainly ranged level 4 Gloom Stalker Ranger?

>> No.77853355

>>77853307
>High con low strength is a reedy fucker. The kind of hard-headed bastard who you can pound on all day but despite weighing less than a twig he just will not stay down.
So Steve Rogers befpre he took the super serum.
>High con high strength is a bulky bastard. Someone with the core mass the be able to consistently withstand the strain he's putting on himself through heavy lifting and powerful swings.
Steve Rogers after the super serum

>> No.77853362

>>77850178
is this the full power of 20 CHA?

>> No.77853374

>>77853353
Sharpshooter 100%. Get CBE before you get more dex too. Doesn't matter if you're at 16 until level 12, it's worth more. Unless you're just not using a hand crossbow which is totally legit.

>> No.77853406

>Play Mountain Dwarf Dragon sorcerer
>Have the same hp as the fighter
You'll be One set of medium or heavy armour away from flexing on anyone trying to target the "squishy" sorcerer. Or alternatively pump Dex, use Tasha's (Inb4 >Tasha's) to pick up a rapier and go full Dex Gish with no multiclassing and medium armour tier AC

>> No.77853416

Could a rune knight use giant's might to enlarge himself then cum a truckload over his wife? Would the seed be enlarged or would there just be more of it?

>> No.77853422

Alright guys, I need a system to decide whether or not woman will be dropping their panties at first sight of a PC. It is your attractiveness score, and it is determined by adding your CON mod and CHA mod +10. It works like a normal ability score, except you only use it to charm and FUCK.

>> No.77853427

>>77853406
Still got no fuckin spells, matey. Just play clockwork soul.

>> No.77853441

>>77853353
>Gloom stalker
I'm surprised you're not multiclassing instead.

>> No.77853468

>>77850738
Because you have a horrible case of desensitized coombrain

>> No.77853484

>>77853441
>Player in my game wanted to play gloomstalker with dual crossbows
>They knew they'd need CBE to make it work (I know it doesn't actually work but I don't give a shit, it's the same as them using a single crossbow but both hands are occupied and it's objectively slightly worse but makes them happy)
>Encourage them to take sharpshooter as well

Why do DMs ban powerful options? It just gives more opportunity to make hard fights against threats above their actual level.

>> No.77853489

>>77853406
You mean Hill Dwarf, which doesn't get the armor proficiency.

>> No.77853528

>>77850178
profile?

>> No.77853531

>>77853339
>spell sniper meme
Ohh, I see what you mean. Disengage + having a higher range, then you can constantly force them to take booming blade damage or they can't do shit. That is pretty good.
>bladesinger with 16 con
Bladesinger would probably more likely have lower CON, but grab the resilient feat. Don't sorcs need CHA like bladesingers require INT? Yeah, favored by the gods is very strong. I'm assuming more like +5 from INT, +6 from proficiency, +1 (or +2) from CON and no advantage at level 20. The bladesinger needs: 20 INT, 20 Dex, resilient (CON) while the sorc. needs 20 DEX, 20 CHA, warcaster. If the sorc. doesn't require CHA, it's an entirely different story, though.
>They do?
What I mean is, they don't if you're going for the most optimal damage route to single target. Which is going to be concentrating on shadowblade, quickening booming blade, then using booming blade twice.

>> No.77853537

>>77853484
2 reasons, one justified, one not.

The justified reason is that one player optimizing hard can make the rest of the party feel weak or unnecessary, leading to decreased investment from them.

The unjustified reason is that some DMs feel like their perceived power at the table is threatened if PC are too powerful

>> No.77853541

>>77853406
Take the tough feat just for the meme.

>> No.77853564

>>77853140
>But they can still attack with mainhand + offhand.
Not really an advantage, as you're lowering the damage die of your main weapon to do so- rapier versus two shortswords ends up with the two weapon fighter dealing 1.5 extra damage per round.. IF he dedicates his bonus action for this.

Now, let me do the math for a level 5-6 divine soul sorc going all out. Spirit guardians is 3d8 (save for half) per turn (aoe), spiritual weapon is 1d8+3, twinned booming blade is 2d8+2d4+6 (+4d8 from rider, but we can't predict that). This comes to a total of 6d8 (save for half) + 3d8+2d4+9 damage, which would be 54,5 damage on average assuming everything hits but not accounting for the booming blade rider. If we used shadow blade as our concentration spell instead (easier to math), it'd be 49,5 damage on average. We aren't quickening here because quicken is inefficient on our resources unless it's for big spells- unlike the cleric we can quicken spirit guardians and still attack just fine turn 1. If there is only one target to wack, your damage and strategy changes considerably of course, but if you wanted single target damage there were other methods.

A bladesinger at level 6 does 7d8+(2d8 rider)+6 with shadow blade, or 37,5. Now, if you use two weapon fighting with this, you add 3.5 damage on average at best, putting you to 40.5. Of course, this is with buffed bladesinger with the old shadow blade interaction, so kind of a white room scenario as this has never been possible. Now, for the bladesinger this is cheaper in terms of 2nd level slots and no use of sorcery points, but remember that bladesong is tied to prof mod uses per long rest (3 in this case).

>Bladesinger would probably more likely have lower CON, but grab the resilient feat.
They could, but then they are forgoing warcaster.

>Don't sorcs need CHA like bladesingers require INT?
Bladesingers need their int a lot more than you need your charisma- their AC, con, preparations, save dc all scale off of it.

>> No.77853570

>>77853484
If other players are playing any of the 90% of character concepts that involve dealing damage, it's perfectly fair to police overoptimized builds so that one person isn't doing 3x the damage of someone else simply because they took CBESS or did a shepherd druid meme or whatever. If everyone else is also optimized then what the hell, allow it.

However, Gloom Stalker is just a really fucking shitty design and the people who play it are just as bad.

>> No.77853612

>>77852447
>unwitting to their true intent
That doesn’t sound like the kind of person that would be content to remain quiet about how “tOtALly EVIL my CoNseRVatIvE PC is you guise!!!1!”
I don’t think feigned ignorance is a viable strategy.

>> No.77853617

>>77853570
Actually I thought I was keeping them in line with the rest of the party who are more experienced or have better classes with this but it might backfire. I'm coming to realize that the sorc player I thought was a minmaxer might actually be retarded.

>> No.77853632

>>77853489
You get free mage armour as draconic, hence the "pump dex". Hell even if you leave it at 14 with point buy you'll start on par with a Dex fighter/rogue in studded leather with the same/more hp, as a full caster who can sit back and sling spells if they so wish

>> No.77853638

As a life cleric, should I put a level into druid? Is this kind of generally the expected path? First time playing cleric and 1 of 2 healers in the group of 5.

>> No.77853655

>>77853638
>Is this kind of generally the expected path?
Not really, you don't need it

>> No.77853665

>>77853638
Ask your DM if they will abide goodberry nonsense. That's the only real answer. Otherwise your channel divinity is more than enough healing for the average group.

>> No.77853670

>>77853617
If he's playing sorc expecting to do cool damage or whatever then yes, all you've done is made a monster that will shit all over said sorc while telling the party to turn off all their lights so he can get that sweet, sweet automatic invisibility at level 3

>> No.77853689

>>77853531
>What I mean is, they don't if you're going for the most optimal damage route to single target. Which is going to be concentrating on shadowblade, quickening booming blade, then using booming blade twice.
Ah, I find that much too expensive. The build works well, but it isn't a single target damage build necessarily. Against single targets I'd rather transition into spellcasting normally.

To expand on the constitution debacle, let's take a bladesinger and give him both resilient con and warcaster at level 8. He'd have 16 con, proficiency, int and advantage- that's +9 with advantage which is very good. They would however only have 16 dex, which puts them at 3 more AC than the sorc.
In the meantime the level 8 sorc only has +6 with advantage on their con save and 3 less AC.. but a whole feat they can spend- they could get the aforementioned spell sniper (force enemies to take rider damage and if your allies or even you yourself have any forced movement capabilities, also the spirit guardian damage again). Or get the lucky feat. If you were a light armor race, this feat could even be moderately armored, which would put your armor class at 19- higher than the bladesinger at this point. And the biggest benefit- since you're a sorcerer you can still twin polymorph, which is absolutely ridiculous at these levels, or upcast spirit guardians for a ton of aoe damage.

>> No.77853695

>>77853638
No, the goodberry cheese is shitty and you don't need it anyway. It makes you look like a fucktard to try to bring that to a real table.

>> No.77853703

>>77853670
Nah, it's more like it's a former wizard player that doesn't understand that they don't have enough spells known to fuck around with utility.

>> No.77853707

>>77853638
Healing isn't like you think it is.
Make sure everyone has a healing potion on them just in case they need to get someone up from downed and play normally, stop messing around with fucking meme multiclasses. Remember that healing is usually an emergency action in-combat and out of combat it's used usually if you have spare resources or if you can't short rest/someone used all their hitdice already.

>> No.77853708

>>77853612
The rest of the world will just treat them like a chuuni tsundere with a heart of gold.

>> No.77853731

>>77852474
update
after the session he said they would speak about whats going to happen next

>> No.77853749

>>77852207
They're right, anon.
Alignment is based entirely off of what the character thinks they are, nothing more and nothing less. Alignment is no longer a mechanic in 5e and exists solely as a label. You might as well tell the player "No you can't name your character that! That name is too unrealistic!"

There are specific creature types that have objective alignments (Fiends and Celestials mostly) but as with everything else the MM/DMG completely betrays all these rules and directly contradicts the PHB for the one hundreth time because they were written by a drunk fucktard.

>> No.77853774

>>77853655
>>77853665
>>77853695
>>77853707
Thanks, boys.

>> No.77853824

>>77853708
Oh right NPCs obviously can be oblivious. That’d be the best treatment for that kind of player.

>> No.77853825

>Want to see opinions and experiences of the infiltrator mode of armourer artificer
>Everything online from builds to opinions to experience playing it only talks about the temp hp and Guardian Mode
Oh...

>> No.77853830

And remember folks
you can't use Healing Word if you can't see your target.

>> No.77853861

I really wish there was more to do with an off hand outside of TWF/Shield/Focus

>> No.77853865

>>77853825
Infiltrator is basically pray that your DM gives you mithral armor or otherwise it's relegated to a genuinely useful but not often used feature in that you can wear it to a social function.

Assume guardian is the default but be happy you can change it on a short rest for free.

>> No.77853870

>>77853861
Like what? What else would there be?

>> No.77853879

I'm running Princes of the Apocalypse in Eberron. Should I split the various connected dungeons and spread them to different locations? How does the higher level of technology effect the storyline? Any game-breaking player strategies I should look out for?

>> No.77853891

>>77853825
>Want to see opinions and experiences of the useless mode of the AC stacking meme subclass of the AC stacking meme class
>Everything online from builds to opinions to experience playing it only talks about stacking health on your AC stacking meme

gee, sherlock! This is a tough one.

>> No.77853904

>>77853861
There is also using a magical or mundane item.

>> No.77853936

>>77853879
The thing I worry about most in Eberron is overwhelming players with detail about different states to the point it goes in one ear and out the other. To that end I'd have only one or maybe two in actual nations hold a temple and the others in Q'barra, the shadow marches or the mournland or something. Or if you need them to go to Thrane or some shit, have it in a remote part where all they need to know is that it's religious country or whatever.

>> No.77853980

>>77853825
Strange, it's the better one of the two, mostly because it can at least apply sharpshooter while guardian mode does fuckall damage. Both are just sad compared to the battlesmith however.

>>77853891
The AC stacking meme doesn't even get shield like the other artificer subclasses do BIG WHOOP

>> No.77853982

>>77853564
Yeah, mainhand + offhand attack is completely trivial unless shadowblade or Tenser's transformation is in play, then they can both be rather significant.
> let me do the math
I think adding in the rider is pretty unfair, my DM has never given me a booming blade proc. in my life. And another thing is that you're doing that's skewering the calculations--assuming two enemies right next by each other. I already agreed twin sorc. is better for multiple targets, though. With twinned you can literally double DPS.

Spirit Guardians is 3d8 AOE, but is halved pretty often early, esp. if you focus on dex/con. Spiritual Weapons uses your bonus action. Twinned Booming Blade is 1d8 + 1d4 + 3 to TWO targets if they happen to be next by each other. If you quicken to use booming blade twice, then you don't get the spiritual weapon add.

If it were single target and you used spirit guardians + spirit weapons instead of shadowblade + quicken, you'd be much less damage.

5d8 + 1d4 + 6 for around 31 DPR if 100% accuracy and the save was failed.
If you used quicken + 3rd slot shadowblade, you'd be getting 8d8 + 6 for 42 DPR.

A level 6 bladesinger does 7d8 + 1d6 + 6 for 40.5 on single target, as you've said, which is pretty close to the Sorc's single target.

>buffed bladesinger with the old shadow blade interaction
True, SB no longer works with BB. Hence why bladesingers moved to summon fey, animate objects, and tenser's transformation.
>forgoing warcaster
I think most bladesinger builds do, you have a high enough percentage of making the 10 DC con save early game, so you just grab resilient (CON) and ignore warcaster.
>Bladesingers need their int a lot more than you need your charisma
True. Bladesingers are also more focused on being a wizard, too. At higher levels, you're essentially a wizard that can get high AC + Con saves and can smack things with a sword once in a while. Makes the early game less boring, though.

>> No.77853997

>>77853825
Personally Infiltrator feels too much like “lol look at me guys I’m playing as iron man” and I’d rather punch stuff.

>> No.77854000

>>77853980
But what it does get is an actual tanking ability. Who the fuck would target the Artficer otherwise

>> No.77854024

>>77853891
>AC stacking
I don't get this. You get one (1) more AC than any other artificer. That's not exactly what I'd call stacking. But you don't get shield, unlike battlesmith and artillerist, so it can't even stack as high. Why is it the AC stacking subclass?
>>77853865
>it's relegated to a genuinely useful but not often used feature in that you can wear it to a social function.
But it doesn't have that feature unless your DM has granted you mitral. They dropped second skin so infiltrator plate armour is as visible and blatantly obvious as regular plate

>> No.77854025

>>77853997
The entire Armorer class is that. It has a helmet that can retract or deploy as a bonus action. There's literally no purpose to that except to do the Iron Man thing.

>> No.77854037

>>77853870
If I knew I wouldn't be wishing for it

>> No.77854046

Tell me about your starter villains!

My players are about to wrap up the first arc of the campaign in the next few sessions, and that's going to include facing down with the Paladin who's been chasing them. It's a pirate game, and they're being chased by "Tecartus, the Sea's Justice", a Vengeance paladin who's sworn an oath against Mutineers and Pirates(the players are both)

>> No.77854077

>>77854025
I wish Artificer had a martial subclass that was just a regular fucking martial and not:
- steampunk beastmaster, or
- iron man nerd fantasy
Forge Adept looks fun, but thats not officially printed so idk

>> No.77854092

>>77854025
>Helmet doesn't confer some bonus like darkvision or providing breathable air
Missed opportunity. Not like the subclass couldn't benefit from extra features. Hell it's entire 9th level is "To compensate for the fact you can't benefit from any weapon/armour/focus magic items your DM might give you, we will now allow your to use your core class feature with all of your subclass instead of just part of it. Enjoy."

>> No.77854142

>>77854077
>Forge Adept looks fun, but thats not officially printed so idk
Also basically thematically heir of dhakaan only.

>> No.77854191

>>77853689
Yeah, the AOE for the build seems extremely good at the cost of a lil' defenses. It's also not limited like bladesinger's bladesong, while with this build, metamagic on cantrips are very cheap.

>bladesinger and give him both resilient con and warcaster at level 8
I don't think any builds take both warcaster or resilient (CON), it's one or the other. Warcaster for early game if the campaign ends early, resilient for late game.

This discussion is messing me up a lil' bit cause I rolled for my bladesinger stats instead of point buy, haha. I got spoiled with starting with 18 INT, 16 CON, 18 DEX.

I'm assuming if it's point buy, both the sorc and wizard go

15/15/14 for both. Let's say both get +2 +2 (better for the sorc)
17/17/14
If the calculation is at level 8, the wizard would probably grab resilient (CON) + even out INT + dex.

The sorc would probably do 18 dex, 18 CON, 14 CHA, and warcaster.

That'd put the sorc at 4 less AC (assuming same armor and wizard bladesinging)
Sorc would have +7 to con saves and advantage.
Wizard would have +9 to con saves with NO advantage while bladesinging

>> No.77854208

>>77854142
Just remove all the goblinoid language and it’s fine

>> No.77854239

>>77854208
God, can you imagine playing maverick, though? It's like all the worst parts of being a half caster shining though.

>> No.77854251

>>77853982
>I think adding in the rider is pretty unfair
Which is why I haven't for my total damage numbers for either subclass. Although for the sorc it's much easier to accomplish.

>assuming two enemies right next by each other
Yep. You only go in if you can get value out of SG otherwise.

> If you quicken to use booming blade twice, then you don't get the spiritual weapon add.
Which you should never do- that's two sorcery points after all.

>Spirit Guardians is 3d8 AOE, but is halved pretty often early, esp. if you focus on dex/con.
Wasn't sure how much to reduce it by- and attacks also miss entirely pretty often too and I haven't calculated it for either build. Also, I hadn't factored in dex because that's the same attacking stat the bladesinger is using- we aren't focusing in it any more than they are, and bladesingers aren't getting more damage out of the int they are investing.

>I think most bladesinger builds do
I think it's good even for bladesingers, especially if you want to use offhand attacks or you can't cast shield and the like. Also, reaction booming blades are great as well. But yes, most bladesinger builds forgo both it and resilient con- when they take one of the two it's usually warcaster (for the mountain dwarf sorc, I'd certainly take warcaster + PAM for fun shenanigans).

>At higher levels, you're essentially a wizard that can get high AC + Con saves and can smack things with a sword once in a while.
Agreed. The divine sorc fortunately scales in this scenario quite nicely, with upcast spirit guardians and higher scaling on their booming blades. Also being able to quicken your big spells while still attacking normally is a great boost- the bladesinger stops attacking because they have much more important stuff to do, while the sorc can do both.

>and tenser's transformation.
Still a trap option, I'd never take this.

>> No.77854258

>>77854191
warcaster and** resilient (CON)

Honestly, the twin sorc. seems like a better "gish" at this point because the build actually has the balls to not max out its spellcasting stat, while it's still mandatory for bladesingers.

>> No.77854340

>>77853441
I'm the DM.
>>77853484
>gloomstalker with dual crossbows
I think this is what the player is going for.

>> No.77854384

Why are people so hateful towards dual crossbows? Like, I get they're as silly as big fucking swords but one crossbow per hand seems to always spark some autism nerve in people.

>> No.77854402

>>77854024
>Haste self
>+3 AC from enhanced defence + repulsion shield
>Resistant armor
>Mind Sharpener (to ensure Haste concentration isn't broken)
>Make 3 attacks each of which has a chance to apply debuff to enemy that gives them disadvantage against anyone but you
Ancestral Guardians, one of the best Barbarian subclasses, only allows you to apply this debuff to 1 enemy at a time. Said barbarian is also likely using Reckless Attack and has much lower AC and survives really just through their HP pool and rage.

If you dip a level, you can get another point of AC easy and from there you can get comfortably up to 26 AC, though obviously it's less than this before level 11.
Armorer used to get shield as well. Thank god it doesn't now.

>> No.77854412

>>77854251
>sorc it's much easier to accomplish.
For sure, I think the mobile feat might be the only way the bladesinger could do it. And the sorc. gets more out of it because they can actually BB twice.
>value out of SG otherwise
Makes sense, maximum value for the least resources. So you spell cast at a distance against single strong foes, then use concentration + melee to deal with mobs. It's a good build, that's pretty much what bladesinger tries to do in a way. Kill trash mobs without expending too many spell slots and get to do it in melee.
>offhand attacks or you can't cast shield and the like
Couldn't you drop the weapon as a free action, cast shield, then pick it up again? Cheesy as fuck and immersion breaking though. I think pretty much past level 7ish, shadowblade and attacking normally with your bonus action aren't really used anymore, though. Hence why they don't feel like a very... devoted gish? I guess.
>bladesinger stops attacking
Pretty much. It makes their 6th level feature quite a bit weaker, especially if it's only a 1d6 + 4 or something. It's a tiny bit of extra damage. Both are still quite squishy, though.
>tenser's transformation
Surprisingly OK with Elven accuracy + you have a magic weapon. 6d12 damage from 3 attacks and 50 HP ain't nothing to scoff at. The flavor of it is also really nice

>> No.77854422

>>77854239
Yeah Maverick looks like a mess.
I guess similar to martials only having Beastmaster2.0 and not-IronMan, the caster subclasses only have Potion Seller and Turret Guy.
So it makes sense that there should be a subclass to fill a more neutral caster role, while still being an Artificer with infusions and stacking magic items and whatnot. Maverick is just such a weird attempt at that though.

>> No.77854440

>>77854384
It takes two hands to aim a crossbow accurately.

"Hand crossbows" as a concept are just plain silly - little handheld crossbows can't have enough elastic strength to be worthwhile, and you can't accurately aim a fullsize crossbow with two hands.

Having a backup crossbow to use after you use your full size crossbow could make sense though.

>> No.77854479

>>77854384
It literally does not work which I think is the main thing. This is followed by it not working in 5e's rules as a crossbow has the ammo property meaning that even if they ignore loading with CBE, they do not ignore the need to physically place the ammo in the weapon (save for if they have the repeating armourer infusion)

I think the reluctance is borne of "It's officially supported with artificer and also is no better than a single weapon firing on a bonus action". But that's all. If a player wants to take up an otherwise free hand holding a second hand crossbow while being no worse or better than someone using one hand crossbow, why punish them further?

>> No.77854481

>>77854384
Ranged combat is already cancerous
CBE combat is doubly so
CBE Sharpshooter crossbows is the least fun you can have in the entire game, you might as well not even put yourself on the map it matters so little at that point

>> No.77854494

>>77854440
Surely there are good enough materials in a world of magic? Just price them appropriately.

>> No.77854512

>>77854479
>save for if they have the repeating armorer infusion
Just artificer, my bad. There is nothing special about armorer other than it getting hypnotic pattern.

>> No.77854516

>>77854494
The problem is that would scale. A hand crossbow's existence implies the existence of crossbows that can shoot through entire cows, basically.

>> No.77854548

>>77854402
My point is the Big AC isn't really armourer specific. You beat out other artificers by 1 AC and fall behind them by 4 once they cast shield

>> No.77854591

>>77854384
Because I'm tired seeing cropped pregnancy art of the Diablo 3 Demon Hunter.

>> No.77854596

>>77850178
does this count as light armor or unarmored?

>> No.77854612

>>77853099
>>77853225
>>77853154
Being upset about lizard boobs is a retarded SJW litmus test.

>> No.77854618

>>77854516
The only reason there aren’t modern crossbows with that capability is because there’s no demand for it.

>> No.77854629

>>77850178
>sorcerer
sorry in order to join you have to at least pick a semi useful class

>> No.77854682

>>77854191
Oh, that is a good start. Yeah, Bladesingers scale much better with ASI's so if you roll high things would change a lot. I'd miss being able to gish with quicken, however.

The sorc has many more racial options open to him, but I don't think I'd value 18 con that much. For example a half elf would go 16 dex, 16 con, 16 cha and warcaster + effective feat. A goblin (for rider damage) would go 16 dex, 16 con, 14 cha. A hobgoblin would go 15 dex, 16 con, 15 cha and grab moderately armored (+ dex) and grab whips this way, eventually going for spellsniper. A githyanki goes 16 str, 14 dex, 14 con and leaves cha behind to use greatswords with warcaster + GWM. Way too many builds for me to cherry pick one to go for here, but the racial features matter quite a bit (elven accuracy for the half-elf).

>>77854412
>Couldn't you drop the weapon as a free action, cast shield, then pick it up again?
Not as a reaction, so you're prone to have your weapon stolen as a free action.

>Surprisingly OK with Elven accuracy + you have a magic weapon. 6d12 damage from 3 attacks and 50 HP ain't nothing to scoff at. The flavor of it is also really nice
I just find being unable to cast other spells and requiring concentration a massive dealbreaker.

At the end of the day, the pure sorc build was viable at it's time. Now that tasha's really boosted the bladesinger, the two are much more comparable while the pure sorc is practically dead because of the twin nerf.

>> No.77854701

>>77854629
If you can't make a spellcaster of all things useful, that's a personal problem.

>> No.77854786

>>77854701
it's a literal garbage class, I get trannies with brainworms looove to scream about casters but in reality outside of late game wizard they're lackluster at best and an active detriment at worst
your fullcasters of choice are cleric and wizard, everything else is a joke with limited spell slots, limited spell lists and all manner of horrible restrictions
>b-buh multiclass
if you're multiclassing it means the base class was so godawful it wasn't worth sticking with

>> No.77854793

What can you even do as a monk with armour
Seems so much of their class is tied to being unarmoured

>> No.77854801

>>77854793
Not die

>> No.77854805

>>77854786
They're fine, just pointless.They're full casters which makes them better than martials, they're just irrelevant next to wizards, that's all.

Good class, better than other good classes. Just completely outclassed by the best class.

>> No.77854812

>Hill Dwarf fighter with Tough and HAM
>Going Rune Knight and Picking up the resistance rune and the attack redirect rune
How do I make this even beefier

>> No.77854827

>>77854801
>Not die
Is 1-2 AC tops really going to save your ass that much?

>> No.77854865

>>77854682
Yeah, I actually only started playing DnD last month, just had my 4th session rather recently. I think if twinned spell still worked with BB, I'd 100% play it for my next character. My DM allows BB with SB, so maybe he'd allow twinned with BB. Yeah, bladesingers are extremely limited, elves only. I honestly shouldn't have gone even stats, because now I can't grab resilient (CON) or elven accuracy without getting odd stats, then having to spend a ridiculous amount of time evening them out again. And there are so many good feats like alert, mobile, etc that it's hard to choose.
>Not as a reaction, so you're prone to have your weapon stolen as a free action
Damn, that's messy. Honestly just using a rapier alone would be better then. I think bladesingers tend to lack something to do with their bonus action, especially before they get animate objects. The 3.5ish damage from an offhand attack is extremely low value.
>unable to cast other spells and requiring concentration a massive dealbreaker
Yeah, it's good for pure DPR as a 6th level spell slot for spellsingers on paper, but I think sacrificing your utility completely is kind of a mess. And the level of exhaustion after you cast it is a mess as well.

Imo, the pure sorc. actually still sounds really strong despite the twin nerf. Divine soul sorcs. double as healers too

>> No.77854874

>>77854786
>everything else is a joke with limited spell slots
Even with 6-8 encounter days all casters are strong from level 3 onwards. That is 4 castings of sleep and two castings of web for the sorcerer, if you weren't keeping up, with more castings coming out of your sorcery points. Each of these spells amounts to an easy combat.

Level 5? Now we can cast hypnotic patterns, fireballs, slows. Level 7? I don't care how big of an ego your martial character has, a Giant ape is way better than him and I'm twinning this so you monkeys better do what I say.

I don't even know how you're getting these ideas, are you just wasting all your slots on trivial shit?

>> No.77854878

>>77854548
And that's why the class as a whole is pretty stacked on AC. Just that Armorer does it a bit more and synergizes much better with it.

>> No.77854887

>>77854786
>>77854805
Even though I always liked spellcasters I do find that it seems like the gay special snowflake players always pick them over martial classes, probably because they stand out.

>> No.77854919

How would one start to play a solo dnd game?

>> No.77854928

>>77854874
warlock is a full caster and has no spell slots bro

>> No.77854933

Problem isn't even that Sorcs are "bad" it's that they restricted literally any way to make them actually fun
>Shit spell list
>Few spells known
>Heavily limited metamagic that doesn't make up for the above so they just pulled a Ranger and gave it super strong new subclasses without fixing the old one

>> No.77854937

>>77854793
Specifically I'm playing a wisdom based swarmkeeper ranger and wanted to multiclass into astral self monk and flavour it as my swarm but martial arts requires you to not wear armor, dropping my ac by 3

>> No.77854939

>>77850178
what subclass

>> No.77854941

>>77854874
>wasting all your slots on trivial shit
That would be warlocks.

t. wizard player in a game with a warlock.

We could literally replace that player with a turret that casts eldritch blast once a turn and repeats, "Is this a short rest?" on a 5 minute timer--nothing would change.

>> No.77854945

>>77854919
Buy one of the Baldur's Gate games. Also contrary to what nostalgiafags will say the 3rd one doesn't look bad but it's also in early access hell

>> No.77854947

>>77854928
1+dm or just dm

>> No.77854956

>>77854812
Twilight Cleric 2 for 1d6+2 temp HP every round?

>> No.77854967

>>77854919
Have you tried asking the Solo RPG General?

>> No.77854968

>>77854945
100+ hours in BG3 here
I like it
I also like the original 2
plenty of mods already out there for it
and they just added druids officially

>> No.77854979

>>77854945
is it 5e, or some other made up system?

>> No.77854995

>>77854967
wheres that?

>> No.77854998

Rolled 5 (1d20)

>>77850178
I make an animal handling check to stroke him to orgasm!

>> No.77855003

>>77854865
>I think bladesingers tend to lack something to do with their bonus action, especially before they get animate objects.
Yeah, it is troubling. Since your DM is allowing Shadow blade, you have no need for flaming sphere, which eats up concentration anyway. Ah, one nice thing you can do on bladesingers if you want to focus much more on melee damage is to dip a level into fighter and go strength. Just ignore bladesong- with con saves and high AC that's plenty for defenses, and at level 7 you're doing your extra attack with GWM+PAM (if Vhuman) on top of booming blade damage. Great use for our bonus action too, and this actually stacks with Tenser's quite nicely.

>Imo, the pure sorc. actually still sounds really strong despite the twin nerf. Divine soul sorcs. double as healers too
Maybe I am reacting too harshly to the nerfs. I'll try them again sometime and see how that goes.

>> No.77855014

>>77854979
Mostly 5e but they modified it mostly for the better. For example the dogshit 5e Ranger is better in the game.

>> No.77855024

>>77854995
Literally just look up "solo" in the catalog and it'll come up. There's a bunch of solo oracle's that don't care about what system you're using

>> No.77855033

>>77854812
>>77854956
Also maybe Martial Adept for Parry. Could combine it with the fighting style and be a pseudo Battlemaster without sacrificing the Rune Knight features.

>> No.77855039

>>77854928
>>77854939
Warlocks are martials, and not fullcasters. Change my mind.

Also, 6-8 encounter days are fine for warlocks if you allow 2 short rests. At level 5 for example, they'd have 6 castings of 3rd level spells- the wizard only has half that. This is 6 hypnotic patterns, or 6 fireballs for fiendlocks for example. And because you are (and I insist) technically a martial that does reliable at-will damage, you contribute as an archer would regardless throughout the whole day (or with weapons as a hexblade, who can outdamage a fighter with devil sight + GWM and all their pact shit).

>> No.77855041

>>77855014
>>77855024
Preciate it

>> No.77855102

>>77854998
you fail and accidentally crush his balls

>> No.77855149

>>77851791
Draconian Sorcs (which that thing better be) are d8 equivalents thanks to their 1 hp/level

>> No.77855170

>>77855149
Achstually since the first hit die is maxed, they'd have 7 hp without adding con at level 1 while a d8 class would have 8

>> No.77855190

>>77855170
Near-equivalents, fine

>> No.77855227

>>77850178
TELL US YOUR FUCKING SUBCLASS

>> No.77855246

Rolled 14, 9, 1, 13, 5, 8 = 50 (6d20)

Rolling a stupid sexy human fighter

>> No.77855255

>>77855246
>9 Dex, 1 Con
This must be after that goblin slayer episode

>> No.77855270

GOOD MORNING. FRESH BREAD.
>>77855259
>>77855259
>>77855259

>> No.77855286

>>77855270
It's 10:37 at night, you weirdo.

>> No.77856623

>>77854612
I don't give a shit about lizard tits, I just hate furries.

>>
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